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„There is no place like home“

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No. 33862
356 kB, 1280 × 720
I was going to post this in the commiebloc thread but you know what? We should just have a thread devoted to discussing Russia and Russian things and asking Russian questions since like a third of the board often ends up feeling that way anyway.

So my hypothesis is that Russian cynicism and gallows humor is merely the defense mechanism of a truly deeply idealistic and romantic people. I mean, just look at this. Just look at it. This was commentary from the Slavic dev about making Pathologic 2. You would think with talking "freedoms" well maybe American but no, and I have come to find that somehow this statement in itself typifies a very Russian kind of psychology about everything.

It's kind of hard to explain I think if you haven't just spent the last decade talking to and being around Russians but I think there's something to it. Think about just the Russian experiment with Socialism and subsequent failure. In this statement I somehow see people like Lenin and even Stalin. Was what Stalin said about a people with empty belly's knowing nothing about freedom just a cynical ploy and excuse? Certainly. But I also think it was truthful what he said, and that there is something certain, something nebulous yet discreet, about a Russian mentality I haven't got English words for, a thing I think people may wrongly use the term "soul" when what really they mean by "soul" is just the clumsiness and pretense of jaded apathy and cynicism in direct response to their ideals meeting headlong against reality. This statement here is just something so trivial as about a videogame. What deeper a thing can a Russian thinker truly believe and feel that we cannot perceive?

I think that I need to find a good list of Russian literature and possibly learn to read and speak Russian.
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No. 33864
Better bo russian but post-ussr in general I guess.

>is merely the defense mechanism of a truly deeply idealistic and romantic people.
Depends, some just stupid aggresive bydlo. But often what you call "rude" comes from more open view on things. When things like "neutral opnion" and tolerance seen like ostentatious hypocricy. Since russians often meashure others by their iternal understading on our own mentality - when we see other mentality we may suspect "it's probably a lie to trick us".
>What deeper a thing can a Russian thinker truly believe and feel that we cannot perceive?
Russian people from their stupidity have huge respect for strong leadership. They want to be nation under god. But not like china in absolute sence where emperor seen as some kind of god, but opposite - want god guide them. However this is mixed bag of things and opinions. I see stalin and lenin and their supporters in hell, they are butchers.
What's majority of russian people see wrong when other people say "because of you russians we suffered under communism we hate you" - they immideatly start see this people as enemies of russians and hate them more because of pride. But reality that russians was first and biggest victim of so called "communism" and instead of supporting their own enslavers it'd be better if russian was first people who maximally condemn it.

>I think that I need to find a good list of Russian literature and possibly learn to read and speak Russian.
Well I be happy help you with it if you really want it. Russians always like when someone have interest in their culture. I think in deep dreams we want our culture be as powerfull in world as anglo-one.
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No. 33867
>>33864
>Since russians often meashure others by their iternal understading on our own mentality - when we see other mentality we may suspect "it's probably a lie to trick us".

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

And what I was referring to is a sort of Russian positivism and progressive outlook on society and the world, even if a sort of prideful one.

See this is a thing that is especially hard to explain for me because it's like when I hear a Frenchman speak, he says all the words but the song is completely different to American hurr durr muh freedoms sort of, not optimistic, but like a weird type of idealism even if sometimes cynicism masquerading as idealism, and a true and genuine belief in, something I guess. I think it borrows from the fact we are revolutionary cultures although so is France but something is just missing whenever I think of French people speaking about things like society. It is like they are more fake and plastic about it, they say the words but the song is different, yet when a Russian speaks like Lenin or that dev, it strangely may not even be the right words but the tune is so eerily similar to our own.

I think that when you see things like the Russian space program, that speaks very much to this ideal, as well as the misguided attempt at inflicting Soviet style Communism on the world because they truly believed in it, even if often the leadership did not.

I've been reading about Russian Communists and Communism and one thing struck me is first off yes, there are much darker, more cynical, more pragmatic things about it but in Afghanistan with the Khalq for example. There is just something there about their very vision of "building Communism" itself which just strikes me as a kind of eerily familiar mindset which I cannot describe that vaguely reminds me of this deep undercurrent in American thought and psychology, like a lilt of hopeful optimism in the future and poetry and romance mixed with a stern inward conviction that frankly I don't see in a lot of societies and cultures.

I have not read them but it makes me think of much of what I have heard of famous Russian writers, like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, Solzhenitsyn and Pushkin. There is a strange almost blind idealism to it and this vague frankly almost American sense behind things like "building Communism" and tearing down the Tsars and creating this prosperous, free and progressive sort of utopian society they seemed to envision. I do not doubt for a second that most of the Politburo were psychopaths, but even in that I just keep hearing this strange voice, this strange alien yet deeply familiar voice I have not heard elsewhere, and it is a voice sounding identical to that Pathologic 2 dev who expounded upon such a thing that normally any Westerner--or hell anyone else franly--would simply approach as "lol it's just entertainment dude chill out" and see it as no more than an empty amusement to make them money.

You too--you personally--often sound this way to me. When you describe games and the games you like it sounds almost as if there is both a poetry and a conviction underlying it all, a sense that may be both incredibly rigid, stubborn, and prideful, but is like an iron conviction in something out of an ideal nonetheless. I hope I am not sounding like so much nonsense but perhaps others outside Russia will know what I mean by all this and what is that Russian voice.
>what author
Well I just told you some. I also feel as though I'm going to end up losing quite a bit in non-annotated English translations, however I've yet to figure out a better and more efficient scheme than "ring up the CIA and ask them to pay my Russian language classes YOLO" or some phone app which I doubt would teach me anything. Alternatively I could just get a few hard copies of Russian literature to read and deal with it being translated which is 95% most likely.
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No. 33868
>russian literature
I should finally get myself this collection of novellas by Gogol. I remember I really loved The Nose and The Coat. Great and unique humour I've rarely came across in any literary works but at the same time tragic (at least The Coat). Also the newspaperish kind of style and the whole early 19th century St. Petersburg atmosphere and the peak into its society was highly satisfying.
I never got around to read Dostoyevsky or Tolstoi as I have higher priorities in german works.
Lately I heard about "A gentleman in Moscow" by Amor Fowles which isn't exactly russian but sort of a russophile novel about a guy living in a decadent moscovian hotel during times of socialism but never losing his attitude and morals. Sounds more like a light read but alright for practicing reading ine english again, which I didn't do for quite a while now.
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No. 33884
>>33864
>They want to be nation under god. But not like china in absolute sence where emperor seen as some kind of god, but opposite - want god guide them

Moscow as 3rd Rome confirmed. And Spengler was right, too.
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No. 33909
Russian mentality has mostly been crafted in a setting where law contributes relatively a little in regulating the norms of the society. It's been gradually changed in today's russia which sparks a hell of nostalgia towards times where people somehow organized by their own means, aka the 90s. From this springs unbidden your clue to comprehend why this guy is so turnt against a simple obedience to the written rules, and sort of an answer to some other occasions on the russia. Like, there's popular drama youtewb fights where a guy comes up to tell someone he mistreats his rights and acts according to no law, et cetera. People are divided: the elder are a bit angry with "the prick", the youngster are all about how they pwn and show they're trustworthy. All of this, however, does not mean there's an ongoing chaos and disorder as one may imply. The order of things is rather more felt than read from a text. This is, what I think, a huge part of russian thinking.

As for the approval of Stalin, I think it has vastly to do with the main ideological agenda in the russian society - world war II victory. I like our russian saying that's literally translated like "They don't separate the wheat from the chaff" - its figurative meaning boils down to the fact some people can't divide an object into different strands and work from there on. It's universal and explained by our brain operation where it's evolutionary effective to stereotype observable things around and spend less time in burning calories for the brain to function. If it's aplpied to one case, then it's a rule. You face it everywhere.
So there it goes. Everything is canonized about a russian soldier and russian people at that time, and hence - their choice to be ruled by Stalin. Different rationalization is essentially crap their brain presents if you try to get them talking and understand their system of thinking. It's not based upon a logical system of interconnected elements coming from the first axioms or values as it's heavily flawed and you can get them mad like Socrates by asking a pair of questions.
>Lenin
Lenin is mostly loved by commies. Yet throughout the time, his marxist-leninst ideas have come to be wrong and the intellectual part of the left-wing movement in the western civilization is basically in big search for the replacement of its explanotory models as to why it happens even though they agreed with the premises like it's unfair, the rich exploits and so on, so forth. That's why there're post-marxsists that are heavily underrepresented in Russia as educational system can't be restructured that fast to eliminate the acceptance of lenin's or adjastent ideas. Hence, lenin-loving fellas are around. Better avoid them provided you don't want to get your mind acidified.

Naming things soulful is a footstep of Christianity. It's a part of language we, people, barely focus on. But your concept of russians vibing with way more subtle things is not alien, and for instance Dostoevsky was praising Russians as one of those. It was kill when commies took over because "great russian chauvinists" disturbed minorities and was later attached back as minorities tended to separate from the soviet empire. But this is quite another story.
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No. 33910
>>33868
Nabokov wrote a good review about the coat by Gogol. It's just a super funky combination of russian words (the language is syntentical, you can do whatever you want with a word order). And it was really influential.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/631671.Lectures_on_Russian_Literature
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No. 34376
31 kB, 600 × 600
Can you tell me why the bear gets into the burning car in the forest? Is the bear a metaphor for someone who blindly tries everything that's new (like a burning car is new to the bear)?
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No. 34378
>>34376
It's an anti-joke that strongly relies on delivery. The punchline is condensed into a single phrase at the end of the joke, making it sudden and unexpected.
Also the fact that in Russian present simple and present continuous are the same tense, and when translating to present continuous in English, it becomes a bit verbose and drawn out, ruining the delivery.

Similar joke in Russian:
Купил мужик шляпу, а она ему как раз.
Doesn't work in English:
Man bought a hat, but it fits.
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No. 34379
>>34378
But that took longer to say in Russian than English.
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No. 34382
>>34379
The joke is a parody of that type of joke. In this case, the first half of the joke is constructed like a typical anecdote premise, something similar to "Man walks into a bar", except that in Russian, the intent of telling a joke is derived from the syntax of language, and the premise can be anything, while in English, a sentence is not immediately identified as a joke unless it presents a specific premise.
So, "Man buys a hat" is not immediately obvious in English to be the beginning of a joke, but the way it is worded in Russian, it is. And the situation can be anything, it's the sentence structure that identifies something as a joke template.

So the joke is that it sets up an expectation of a joke, then a conjugation implying some kind of conflict / caveat (",but" is not a direct translation for ",а" but it's the only one that fits), but the joke then ends immediately in a banal situation.

The English version lacks the setup, in that the first half of the sentence is not immediately identified as a classical joke template, so the punchline falls flat.
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No. 34384
>>34382
I had a brief glimmer of "getting" it but kind of independently of your post especially the second one. If someone said "man walks into a bar, he has a drink and leaves" everyone would say that's a terrible joke. My mind fills in the blanks with gallows humour. Like it's funny because nothing terrible happened--or because it did.
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No. 34396
>>34382
>So the joke is that it sets up an expectation of a joke, then a conjugation implying some kind of conflict / caveat (",but" is not a direct translation for ",а" but it's the only one that fits), but the joke then ends immediately in a banal situation

I think a close english equivalent would be:
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

In this case Why did the..., spoken without any other conversational pretext-and with the proper inflection- creates the understanding that a joke is being set up(just like "Man walks into a bar"). Then, instead of a punchline, there is only a simple logical statement. Over the years the chicken joke has evolved, and funny punchlines have been created, but the original version was anti-humor.
If I were to borrow the "Man buys a hat" joke, perhaps it could be reformatted like this:
Why did the man buy a new hat?
Because his old hat didn't fit.

Ba dum tss.
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No. 34486
>>34396
Yeah but I think the bottom line is, these are not good jokes. Possibly in any language. At least definitely not in English.
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No. 34488
Speaking of dumb absurd jokes dependant on delivery. There's one that had me in stitches when I was a kid and that I have no idea how to translate to English to make it work: научился ёжик жопой дышать, сел на пенёк и задохнулся. In English it will be something like "hedgehog learned how to breathe through his asshole; then he sat on a tree stump and died of asphyxiation". It's just too cumbersome. It has that fancy word borrowed from Greek - "asphyxiation" - that cannot be replaced with simpler ones. "Choked to death" doesn't fit, because it usually means that something has been done to your throat that made you die of lack of oxygen, while in the first part of the joke it has been established that the hedgehog doesn't breathe through his throat but through his asshole. I also had to add the conjunction "then", because in Russian version it's clear out of context that actions take place sequentially, while in English one may think that they take place simultaneously, or even that the second is the cause of the first, which makes it even more confusing.

>>34382
>",but" is not a direct translation for ",а" but it's the only one that fits
I think "and" fits better in that case. Both "а" and "но" sometimes get translated as "and" to English, and "and" is often better translated to Russian as "а" or "но" ("I have no mouth and I must scream" - "У меня нету рта, а (но) я хочу кричать").
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No. 34489 Kontra
>>34488
Oh, and "died of asphyxiation" can be replaced with "suffocated", and it works decently, but it's still kind of a fancy word which sounds better in a medical diagnosis than in colloquial speech.
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No. 34490
>>34486
They're the kind of jokes that pop into your sleep deprived head at 5 AM and make you laugh like a retard.
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No. 34493
718 kB, 499 × 300, 0:01
Want post something usefull but honestely has no idea what.
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No. 34508
There is nothing romantic in the op-pic.
It just means "I don't care about your feels, this is how I see the game, I don't care if you will suffer while playing it, I don't care if you don't know what to do." But author is feeling too valuable about himself so he can't state it openly, hiding it behind sleezy wording.
We have a popular memephrase "I am an artist, this is how I see things" which is used to protect anything from the criticism.
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No. 34510
>>34508
>I don't care about your feels
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Fuck your feels. And your mom too, while we're at it.

>I don't care if you don't know what to do
Yeah, that might be bad if there are no clues whatsoever that could help you reach the goal, but if there are some, it's much better than having some sort of marker that tells you where to go/what to pick up/whom to talk to. Just compare Skyrim to Morrowind. Morrowind wasn't exactly a super intellectual game, but it still required you to exert some effort to complete quests, like gathering info, bribing NPCs etc. Skyrim just places a marker where you need to go, that's it. It's really lazy, the only lazier way to design quests that comes to mind would be to turn them into QTEs.
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No. 34512
>>34510
I think you mistaken him by me lol
t.crpg russian
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No. 34513
>>34512
Nah, I didn't. He's much better at English than you are. XDDDD I doubt that there are many people in here who didn't play both Morrowind and Skyrim, so he should understand the comparison.
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No. 34520
95 kB, 1280 × 1024
>>34513
Everyone is better at english, than me. Thus, why don't we switch to eastern slavic languages in this thread?
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No. 34523
69 kB, 700 × 522
>>34520
Our Western friends won't understand us, so it's not a very good idea.
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No. 34526
>>34520
>>34523
Whenever slavs start writing in cyrilic, we know that shit got real and we keep our heads down.
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No. 34530
>>34513
I have played neither
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No. 34538
47 kB, 700 × 479
>>34523
Maybe as additional small messages to make intrigue? X---DDDD
But anyway, hope this thread will go beyond disscutions about bear joke if someone have questions or need help or something like that.

>>34530
He not said "all", but "most people".
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No. 34559
>>34538
Well he said "both" so the presumption seeming to be that with so many playing both then just about everyone played at least one. The thing with that being, if you played one in a series or franchise it's highly likely that you're going to have played all of them, in which case I would say that yes he is correct in that people who played one probably did play both. I am specifying that meanwhile there's still quite a lot of people who haven't played any, which could also be partly because of whatever reasons and thus not getting into the game. Or not getting into the game period. I'm splitting hairs at this point.