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No. 1165 Systemkontra
522 kB, 583 × 996
What is Ernst currently reading?

Also further planning of the EC reading group.
>>
No. 1166
King of Ashes by Raymond E Feist. It's the first book in a new series set in a completely new world.
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No. 1170
114 kB, 1080 × 1087
I just read the article "The Kentucky Derby Is Decadent and Depraved" by Hunter S. Thompson and it was great indeed. I've never read any of his stuff before, just knew him from watching Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas as a teenager and didn't really bother since then. But it was actually a great read and I know understands why he was and is so widely celebrated. As a foreigner and layman of english language I can't really judge his literary style but it really got me and I'd really recommend reading it.

http://grantland.com/features/looking-back-hunter-s-thompson-classic-story-kentucky-derby/
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No. 1173
I have been rereading a few of my old J.D. Salinger short stories. This morning I read 'A Good Day for Bananafish'. I highly recommend it. It doesn't require perfect English to appreciate either because the writing itself is pretty simplistic, it's just the contents that are a bit more in-depth. He's probably my favourite author because of that. I'd recommend most of his work, but this one especially if you're trying to get into Camus since there are some similar themes that are presented a bit easier if not as complexly, in it.

I'm also still working my way through the Book of Words by Abai during my Kazakh study sessions. It's still very good also. English translation works fine but the feeling is slightly different. I find that the Kazakh version says things faster by nature of the language and there are a few things here and there that make more sense in Kazakh than in English despite good efforts to translate it.

I'd also highly recommend it.
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No. 1186
30 kB, 300 × 300
I once again read the Geralt-Saga by Sapkowski. And before someone cries about how shitty and casual and mainstream the witcher is by now, BTFO. Sapkowski has likeable characters and his storytelling is very nice and easy to read.
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No. 1187
It is in my possession but I haven't opened it yet.
Othello by W.Shakespeare.

Just read Dracula by Bram Stoker, would recommend.
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No. 1190
>>1170
Is this New Journalism style? If so I heard that the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test is a classic in that genre. I want to read it myself but its way down on my list, sadly.
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No. 1191
>>1190
>Electric Kool Aid Acid Test
Read The Right Stuff instead. It's more intredasting, IMO.
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No. 1194
>>1191
I just notice his other books, his first two also sound interesting, given the years, americas golden age in capitalism tbh. I really like short stories and novels from that era 1950-2000 that deal with american life in different social stratas and milieus. He has also written about the Silicon Valley during its rise it seems.

Damn how I am supposed to read all this? At least its not academical texts which will speed it
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No. 1207
I was going to read Dead Souls again. However, I just finished reading Nabokov's book about Gogol in which he points out many mistranslations in the Hapgood version, and it so happens that I've been reading the Hapgood version since I was 14, so I felt it necessary to order a new copy.
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No. 1208
I read nothing, I degraded ;_;
But recently I read Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon and ended in the middle of the book(?). Don't know why, maybe really degraded, because I was a bookworm when I was a child
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No. 1212
>>1208
So you just need the right books or you became lazy or fed up with it.
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No. 1239
487 kB, 1200 × 846
I've read two short stories by Kawabata Yasunari. They are in an old magazine from the 80s. Pretty OK stuff, but it's not as good as his later novels which are deeper and longer.
Otherwise I'm still reading the Nibelungenlied and now I'm up to the Twenty-first Adventure
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No. 1282
I'm at the end of 12 Rules for Life. It's pretty good I guess, I wish I had instead picked up Maps and Meaning as I'm far more interested his myth analysis but overall he presents a philosophy to life that while I don't wholly agree with has a good methodology to it.

What I don't understand is how this became such a popular book on the internet right after Stirner or why Peterson can't stop blubbing about the post-modernism bogeyman and actually read up on what it is both as a (now past) reaction to logical positivism and fair critique of his own doctrine. Then there is how he spends a chapter justifying the position of suffering = bad as a first principle when he certainly should be aware from the common lessons in his own research that autonomy takes precedence and that many other feelings can be intuitively known (we all know what injustice feels like for example).

I look forward to his debate with Zizek in October.
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No. 1294
Continued reading Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil today, only the last chapter left. It is an intellectually overwhelming and great experience but still reading the book can be quite tiring at the times. Anyways it seems like I've regained my interest for philosophy, which I haven't really pursued for years anymore. Will probably read René Guénon's Crisis of the Modern World soon, the idea of philosophia perennialis seems very interesting to me. Also still reading Lolita, I have paused it a bit because of reading some other books but will probably pick it up again after finishing Beyond Good and Evil.

>>1173
Both recommendations look interesting, I wanted to read some of J.D. Salingers works anyways as I'm continuosly getting into reading american literature in original language, which was very rewarding so far.

>>1282
There will actually be a debate? As far as I know Zizek invited Peterson to debate him in October but I didn't know that it would actually happen.
I'd love to see it though.
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No. 1303
>>1294
>Continued reading Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil today
>reading the book can be quite tiring at the times
I tried reading "Thus spoke Zarathustra" once, but I had the same experience. You can't really afford to let some lines slip by during reading, you always need to have full focus, othrwise you may lose track. That was maybe only beaten by Goethe's Faust Part II, that was a total clusterfuck and clearly well above my level of comprehension.
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No. 1305
36 kB, 400 × 587
>>1294
I recommend the Glass Family stuff since it comes together nicely as you read it. Seymour Glass is a really interesting character despite his personality not really being all that well developed. He's pretty much the absurdist stuff I was talking about.

Catcher in the Rye is mandatory reading of Salinger if you haven't read it already. If you want to skip ahead, then from the man himself, he describes the main character Holden not as a person but as a 'moment in time'. I say skip ahead because you should read his stuff at least twice, once to appreciate the story and second to actually read it and see what he's trying to actually say. This is especially true of Catcher in the Rye since I find it to be a very comfy story in itself aside from the very relateable themes brought up.

Another interesting piece of American literature would be Co. Aytch by Sam Watkins. It's his memoirs of his time in the Civil War, and while he obviously embellishes a lot of things, it's a nice read and you get a feel for what it was like to participate in something like it. It's not fiction literature but it provides the same kind of entertainment and Sam Watkins is a name that carries some weight, you've probably heard it before really.
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No. 1344
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>>1294
>There will actually be a debate
i don't think so. zizek was very underwhelmed by peterson's book and doesn't appear to be interested in debating him anymore. very understandable in my opinion.

>>1165
reading "hongakubō ibun" by yasushi inoue right now. it seems it is not available in english. i don't speak japanese, the title of the german translation reads "death of the tea master". it's a crime novel set in historic japan. i like it. next is probably something by philip k. dick or i'll read the original dune series by frank herbert again.
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No. 1352
>>1344
>it seems it is not available in english
How much is it for a German copy?
t.Japanese literature reader who know German
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No. 1364
>>1352
new 8€ on amazon
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No. 1366
>>1305
I have never understood why Catcher in the Rye got so much acclaim. I thought it was incredibly overrated.
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No. 1372
>>1364
It's a Taschenbuch, I see. I like those. I can carry it in my coat's pocket when winter comes around.
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No. 1391
>>1372
das buch gibt's auch gebunden. kostet dann zwar das doppelte, ist aber in der regel deutlich haltbarer als die taschenbuchausgabe. macht natürlich nur sinn, wenn man bücher lange aufhebt. gebraucht gibt's das taschenbuch übrigens schon für unter 1 € bei amazon deutschland.
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No. 1516
I finished the new book by Raymond E Feist. It seems to be getting more PC but not too aggressively so. There is just much more mentions of s*x, homosexuality and when listing vices instead of the usual drink and women it's now drugs, drink and women.

Now I am reading Mongol Warrior 1200-1300 ad.
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No. 1520
>>1366
I guess it's a book that you should read when you're in a middle or high school. I've read it when I was fourteen, and I thought that it was great. Me and my buddy who also read it had some serious discussions about it, and also were kinda surprised that it actually was on the school's summertime reading recommendations list (the main character talks about sex, about crossdressers, and even tries to fuck a prostitute!). Then I read it again several years later, and it just didn't feel as good as the first time. The main character looked more like a shallow asshat with some stupid teenager problems and was hardly relatable, other characters weren't great either (except for MC's little sister, she's a qt), and there were no ideas that I could honestly call interesting.
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No. 1561
>>1520
Someone said it is a critic of 1950s america. But I guess that's not the only way to read it. 1950s america was still very conformist I guess, it was in the 1930s and 1940s as you can see in Adornos famous writings from that era where he lived in US exile.

So a teenager is a suitable person to depict conformism. But I agree there are better books on US post-war "realism".
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No. 1616
Currently reading a children's book I will likely gift to my oldest nephew: Haroun and the Sea of Stories by Salman Rushdie.

I don't like giving books out of the blue and try to always read them by myself first. Then we can talk about it once he has finished. Smart y/n?
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No. 1617
>>1616
I think it's totally normal behaviour. You shouldn't recommend anything you don't know, when it's possible.
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No. 2159
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The second part of the Nihongi arrived so I am reading that. I am almost up to the part where Toyosatomimi no Miko appears.
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No. 2161
>>1616
Smart and considerate. At the very least you are avoiding giving him some trash that will put him off reading forever.

Personally though I never give books to children as I can never work out what is age appropriate and don't want to give them Harry Potter or something similarly ghastly.
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No. 2163
I plan on reading the Flaneur chapter in W. Benjamins Baudelaire Essay this evening.

I already started the first pages a few days ago and it was quite comfy. I would like to visit Paris just to see the passages.
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No. 2166
>>2161
>At the very least you are avoiding giving him some trash that will put him off reading forever
Yes, you get it! This will be the first proper book for him, outside those he's forced to read in school. If the reading fly doesn't bite him, I will overwhelm him with comicbooks and save his soul.
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No. 2172
>>2163
I remember reading his drug experiments a few years ago after reading Adorno. It was great when he got high on hash in Marseille, watched the ornaments of some old building and visited a brothel. The way he described the effects it had on his mind was the most beautiful and even realistic description I've ever read. The other drug experiments (like when he did some mescaline with his friends) were interesting too but the trip descriptions were way too cryptical for me.

Also I read "Das Kunstwerk im Zeitalter seiner technischen Reproduzierbarkeit" and I was pretty impressed as well but don't remember a lot besides his optimistic view on TV and the his thought that every piece of art would have an Aura.

Also I had "Berliner Kindheit um Neunzehnhundert" but didn't read it yet.
Had, because oddly the latter two books are missing now. It doesn't happen a lot that I lose books so it's really weird.
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No. 2173
>>2172
Yeah I too think his descriptions of drug usage are quite beautiful and impressing, you wouldn't encounter any trip reports of that kind today.

I also read his Kunstwerk-Aufsatz in 2016 I guess but during that time theoretical thoughts were quite new to me tbh. So I will re-read it soon. Got myself a book from the Gesamtausgabe with both Baudelaire-Aufsatz and Kunstwerk-Aufsatz
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No. 2177
1,8 MB, 195 pages
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No. 2211
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No. 3367
147 kB, 25 pages
Just finished A Tale of Negative Gravity. It's a mildly amusing short story of only 20 pages about a retired man's invention of negative gravity and what he then does with it. I actually didn't notice until after I'd finished that the story was written in 1886 as it feels so modern.

If you have a couple hours to kill this Sunday then there are worse ways to spend your time.
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No. 3368
Reading decline and fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon on my phone.
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No. 3369
1,8 MB, 2487 × 2551
I've finished reading the Nibelungenlied, quite a touching story, I almost cried.
Now I'm in a pickle as to what I should read.Started a bunch of books, but I'm just not feeling it during the summer break. I've worked more on my translations than reading.
Pic related are my options.
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No. 3426
>>3369
They all look boring to me, but tastes are different.

The Young Hitler would be interesting but the caption is bydlo tier.
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No. 3446
>>3426
The inside isn't really bydlo tier. It's basically a bunch of stories a man he was friends with during his late teens/twenties recalls. It just makes me sad. I'm not used to this "human" side of Hitler. The petty student who is well reserved and goes to the opera, and evens starves just so he can afford a ticket.

I think summer is just simply not my season to read. I don't have a daily structure where I could insert it, unlike during the rest of the year when I can just read during commuting, breaks and empty classes. Truly a shame. Maybe I should just write instead.
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No. 3451
>>3369
Do Three Kingdoms. I've been meaning to pick it up myself for a long time and you can give me an earnest review.

Although, I know what you mean with summer reading. Maybe it is something drilled into us during in our school years, that summer time is absolutely not a time for reading. This time of year I just stick to fiction and especially short stories because my attention span folds and I need something to draw me in quickly.
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No. 3470
>>3446
>>3451

My break will come in a two weeks and I have a shitton of books I ordered in the last weeks, ofc I also have tow write two shorter papers which will include reading.

I wonder if I will going to read anything besides fiction and the stuff for uni. Meh, time is not enough.
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No. 3500
Today I read Goethe's "Der Prokurator" (a story about a rich merchant who got himself a wife after long years of voluntary solitude) , finished Walter Benjamin's "Berlin childhood around 1900 (really beautiful prose but at some point I got really bored reading the childhood memories of some jewish rich kid) and "Die Ablösung", a short but dramatic and emotional mountaineering novella from a forgotten german author that was mainly popular in times of national socialism.
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No. 3504
Speaking of Goethe, I keep taking down Leinden des Jungen Werthers from the shelf, reading maybe a single paragraph from a random page and putting it back. It feels weird that I now understand a lot of it.
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No. 3524
>>3504
I must admit that I haven't read any of Goethe's major works yet, only some shorter stories and some of his scientifical stuff.
Faust is lying on my bed table (which is actually my computer) but I have only read the opening so far. I really liked what I read from Goethe so far and see why he was and still is praised greatly but having to read him in school spoilt a lot for me and I'm still rehabilitating from it. Reading literature in school often is very destructive, I remember how many pupils absolutely despised and probably still despise Kafka just because of being forced to read him. I mean, only imagine Kafka wouls have known that at some point in history pupils would be forced to read the stuff he wanted to end in flames. I'm not sure if he would laugh himself to death or kill himself out of guilt.
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No. 3555
Oh boy, finally finished "Gravity's Rainbow" today. I tried reading it a couple of years ago in English, but found that with my skill in the language scraping through the book's thickets of text was very difficult. So I read it in Russian this time, hoping that it would be easier. I was wrong. The reading experience was a fucking rollercoaster, with slow and tedious climbing on the heaps of events, characters, references to the point of dozing off (yes, I actually fell asleep several times while reading it; I'm not even sure if some parts of the book were real or I just dreamt them) and then fast falling down from it, because it turns out none of them actually made much sense. And I'm not even sure what do I think about it. I kinda like it, but I liked "V." better (although I can't remember much from it either), I kinda hate it, but not as much as some crap like "Mr. Sammler's Planet" or "Jonathan Livingston Seagull". It didn't make any sense, but then again, did it really try to? Well, at least I don't regret the time wasted reading it.
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No. 3556
>>3524
I love Kafka. His works are really touching. I wasn't forced yet to read his works in school, so I did so on my own accord.
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No. 3561
>>3504
Will you shoot yourself in the heda?
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No. 3562
>>3524
Avoid Werther, that's for edgy teens. Reading Dramas sucks. Try "Die Wahlverwandschaften", that's for edgy teens pretending to be adults.
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No. 3563
>>3561
Noguns. But I definitely think about it during winter when there is no snow, only greyness.
Any by understanding I mean how I understand a lot of the text despite it being in German and not a translation. Three years baby, and it's finally paying off.
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No. 3627
>>3556
Sames. Die Verwandlung is probably my favourite, sounds like I've only read his most famous work like so many edgy teens do. But I read it in my mid twenties due to a recommendation by my psychiatrist (we were often talking about books and she recommended analyzing that one and try to understand at least two perspectives on the situation.

Now, if I had read other works by Kafka with the same attention they might also become favourites. Might do that at some point.

Another book that really touched me and that I analyzed with special attention was Der Steppenwolf from Herman Hesse. Can warmly recommend.
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No. 3628
>>3627
All of his novels are good. I read all of them with great joy.
The vanity that is the only way still. Jumping logic and just wortgewaltig and yet of such simplicity

Yet Kafka is not the first to employ such techniques of weird logic that tends to be uncanny. Dostoevsky Doppelgänger e.g, I also read that E.T.A has some pre-Kafa Kafka moments.
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No. 3629
893 kB, 11 pages
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No. 3630
>>3628
>>3627
I have read most of Kafka's shorter stories and "Der Verschollene"/"Amerika" which was a fantastic novel (sadly unfinished though). Haven't read the others yet but I have to enough to read anyways for now.
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No. 3631
>>3628
E.T.A.'s Goldene Blumentopf, I didn't enjoy it at all when I had to read it. Didn't even finish it. Maybe I should give it another try, since by now I completely given myself over to Romanticism.
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No. 3638
>>3631
E.T.A. Hoffmann is great, did you read him in german or translated?
I like "Ignaz Denner" a lot but "Der Sandmann" is a great all-time classic. That story really got stuck in my brain and I often think about it.
If I remember correctly Goethe thought that Hoffmann's work was shit and called him mentally ill. He was pretty unknown in Germany for quite a while, only the french loved him.
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No. 3656
>>3638
I had to read it translated. My literature teacher isn't exactly fond of me using foreign texts and sources.
I remember I wanted to write an essay on Chaucer and I told her I'd use an English edition, but I was scolded to use a Hungarian copy. Don't ask me why.
But if you say he is better in German, I might give it a try sometimes, especially now that I'm isn't forced to read him.
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No. 3660
>>3656
I also want to read at least Der Sandmann probably what he is most famous for.

I only read Des Vetters Eckfenster where the protagonists visits his cousin who never leaves his flat to to being disabled afaik and watches the weekly market from his window. Nothiing canny in it just watching people
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No. 4060
Started reading Ernst Jünger's Auf den Marmorklippen yesterday night but can't tell a lot about it yet as I'm just at the beginning. But so far the prose is pretty beautiful and the scenery he describes really comfy(Otho, who probably impersonates his brother Georg Friedrich, and him live at some small rocky island at the Großw Marina river which is full of animals they live in harmony with and spend most of their time studying), I'm just somewhat afraid that I won't get all references he makes, should have gotten myself a new edition with commentary and not some used, cheap one from the 80s.
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No. 4078
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In the end I've decided to read the Völsunga Saga, since my mind is probably already set on reading Germanic myths and the expressions left by the Nibelungenlied are still fresh.
Honestly, I was just expecting a prose retelling of the German Nibelung story, but there is a really stark contrast between the two so far.
The German version is missing parts and starts in a more in medias res way, and is also a lot more romanticized compared to the Icelandic version. Siegfried's character in the German version is this triumphant, perfect hero who is rich and strong, embodying the German ideal, while in the Icelandic, he is a lot more grey. The story itself feels a lot more complete and full with the inclusion of the whole family's story before Siegfried's.

I'm not sure about the Pagan elements. Odin makes a lot of appearances throughout the story, giving constant advice and changing the flow, while the Nibelungenlied is a lot more "human action" centred and Christian.
I haven't seen the ending yet, but I'd say so far it makes a bit more sense, but it's less "pure" in some aspects.
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No. 4231
>>4078
I've finished it. The ending wasn't as definitive as the Nibelungenlied's was, and the conflict itself felt forced.
I'm sad for Brünhild though. His relationship with Siegfried made a bit more sense. The begräbung scene here made more sense, and it was really moving.
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No. 4438
I intend to read The Recognitions again shortly. Haven't thought about Gaddis in a long time so it should be fun.
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No. 4444
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

I allways wonder, if I should read the Ilias/Iliad? Would that be a boring ancient war novel or is it still relevant like quite some classic stuff?
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No. 4445
>>4444
>Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Nice and enjoyable read.
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No. 4465
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  1. crap (I was hoping to get something concise on SA but all I got was your typical short story of the Nazis, why they were bad, yada-yada)
  2. waste of time (a 354 page essay full of factoids and other garbage)
  3. [still reading] ok (as long as you know nothing about the shit, e.g. me)
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No. 4466
>>4465
are these academical books? they don't look like it. But wait, lel I maybe I had the Mr. Siemens as lecturer.

There are these sort of academical books that hit the sweet spot between being interesting and full of deep info without being absolutely stale.
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No. 4467
>>4466
Well, indeed. I had a seminar with him as lecturer.

The content description reads like it focuses on SA and not the nazis. ofc you will always have that as a foil.
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No. 4468
>>4444
I read the 2nd one, kinda wish I didn't.
By the 2nd one, whatever the long poem was.

It was kind of interesting.
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No. 4469
>>4468
Odyssey/Odysseia is the second one. People say because of Odysseus’s individuality it resonates better with modern people.
I’ve never read it. I think I was reading something else when it was asked of us at school.
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No. 4470
Sven Hassel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Hassel
Bought a few of these books by this author, no regrets.
Fictional group of Nazi's survive being nazi's on pretty much every front, some humour.
Wonder what a Nazi apologist thinks of these, pretty light hearted.

For a good read try
Under the Frog
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Frog
>The novel is a black comedy set in Hungary in the years immediately following the end of World War II and culminates in the 1956 uprising.
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No. 4472
>>4469
Yep, that's the one.
Good source material for a few old tv shows I have seen.

But something about going on a long boat journey, for years and years.
When we have the luxury of flight, just doesn't resonate.
There are a few flip handed comments, a few years spent hear.
Do I need to do spoilers.
So every one of his band die and he is the last one to survive, with a quick trip to Hades.

Does this still appeal to modern readers.
It is recommend to read the first one first, however I wish I would have read one of the other Viking/Scandinadi sagas instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_Edda

I learned some things, but it is not relatable to an adult, maybe it would be better read as a child.
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No. 4480
>>4472
Afaik a lot of the poetic Edda's heroic songs are the same as the Völsunga Saga. Don't know about the God related songs. Never read those, but the Völsunga saga is pretty good. Not as good as the Nibelungenlied, but quite.
Homer's verse just doesn't flow as nicely as the AABB of the Nibelungs.
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No. 4482
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Current reading: Guy Hermet - History of Nations and Nationalism in Europe

Only four chapters in, great book so far. I wanted to know more about the origins of nationalism as I was aware of the rise in romantic nationalism in the 19th century, but it was clear that the industrial revolution and its aftermath could not be the only factor in the birth of national identities as I had previously seen proposed.

Upcoming Reading list:
José Medeiros Ferreira - The Political Behaviour of the Military, Armed Forces and Political Regimes in 20th century Portugal.
Hopefully this will go deep into the army's attempts to maintain order through order in the chaotic First Republic.

Harry A. Miskimin - Economy of the European Renaissance (1300-1600), self evident title, I don't know why the only pics I found say 1450-1600 and late renaissance.

Ana Maria Cardoso de Matos - Science Tecnology and Industrial Development in 19th Century Portugal (The Case of Textiles in Alentejo), the failure of Portugal to become an industrialized nation interests me. I've read two books on this topic and they have different conclusions. Hopefully this one will shed more light on it.
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No. 4485
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>>4482
I've made mistake on the first picture. It was meant to be this one, see pic 1 on this post.

Additionally I've purchased History of Russia by Gregory L. Freeze.
Hopefully this will go nicely into the areas I have little to no knowledge about, particularly Kievan Rus and post-CCCP Russian history.
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No. 4495
>>4482
> the failure of Portugal to become an industrialized nation interests me. I've read two books on this topic and they have different conclusions. Hopefully this one will shed more light on it.
Portugal had no coal nor iron, simple as that. Sure one can consider the human side of things and so on. But up until the end of the 19th century, when hydro power was invented, nations without coal could only look at industrialization happening elsewhere. One had to at least be near some coal rich region and have mass transport means (railways and canals) to transport a lot of coal in order to industrialize. France was the only non-coal country with some access to it (from Belgium) thanks to that.
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No. 4506
>>4495
Portugal did have access to coal and iron, so the whole theory breaks apart at the seams.
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No. 4511
>>4495
Then why didn't south America became industrialised? Brazil had a lot of chances to do so.
To stay in thread. The last book I read was "the collapse of complex societies" by Tainter. One Ernst posted a link to his lecture and I decided to proceed with the book. Totally recommend it if you want to read about societies and don't want another political opinion. Or you can just watch his lecture on YouTube, the book only has some additional graphs and examples.
>>
No. 4520
>>4506
And where did it get it from? Because AFAIK closest source is north spain, but that wasn't enough even for Spain, and I doubt Spain (or even ally England or any other euro country for that matter) would be willing to sell it to Portugal and see it become an important power again. Plus, you needed massive amounts of it, which means you need mass transport to supply it, and this mass transport (canals, railways and bigger steam powered ships) could only be achieved with the same mass use of coal and iron to fuel the engines, build railways and ironclads. It's a retrofeeding system, and this is why countries with access to both coal and iron leaped so much ahead of everybody else. Cheap access to local good quality iron and coal made good engines and iron smelting possible, which created even better machines for iron smelting and coal burning possible, plus transporting of coal and iron to factories, which closed the cycle. Belgium, Germany, England and France are full of canals and railways today precisely because they needed them to transport massive amounts of coal. France used water wheels and then hydro power for electricity, I think they only used coal for smelting, because they had to get it from elsewhere (probably belgium), it's the only example of a non-coal country that managed to industrialize itself. But even then they suffered, historians say that "there was no industrial revolution in france but they did slowly industrialize throughout the 19th century". France's slow industrialization is also why the lagged behind in population if compared to Germany and England in that period.

>>4511
BR has basically no coal. There's only a little bit of low quality coal in the pampas, it's only good for energy generation and wouldn't even last a decade if it was used as main source of fuel and energy for the pampas region only. I'm not saying that presence of coal will trigger second industrial revolution, China too has lots of coal that it historically used for its traditional industries, yet it never triggered any revolution in massive smelting of iron and energy production for transports. But coal was simply an absolute must, no coal means: no steam engines, no transport revolution, no source of energy (until the invention of hydro power) for industries, no smelting of iron.

São Paulo was the first place to industrialize in BR, and they did it only in the 20th century with the use of hydro power. Buenos Aires industrialized earlier, but they had to import coal from South Africa, and that made them quite uncompetitive.
>>
No. 4521
808 kB, 841 × 1127
>>4520
Portugal itself had functioning coal mines all the from the late 18th century.
The previous book I've read put the blame for the lack of industrialization in a mercantilism that maintained itself for far too long due to the necessity of maintaining a system of taxation on Brazil.
There was a nascent industrial sector in Portugal in the 18th century, particularly in textiles and bottling works. Several small factories cropped up in the late 18th century.
National industry would be practically entirely destroyed in the Peninsular War, with anything from windmills to entire towns being destroyed the halt the advance of the French troops.
What followed after this was the Portuguese civil war, which further contributed to the destruction of the infrastructure of the nation and a spike in national debt. This this adds the independency of Brazil that cut off a main source of revenue for Portugal during this very particular period.
After the civil war, the government was debt ridden and full of instability, Portugal was unable to maintain a national economy let alone improve it. By the later half 19th century, several attempts to industrialize the country were taken up, by the government, however Portugal itself was debt ridden and the government was unable to create a considerable amount of infrastructure, although this period marks the new genesis of industrial facilities in Portugal.
>>
No. 4522
>>4521
Additionally since you're a Portuguese speaker, this might interest you:
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empresa_Mineira_do_Lena

This particular company follows a very exemplary theme of other industrial projects in Portugal.
>>
No. 4532
>>4521
>>4522
Very interesting stuff.
>>
No. 5381
24 kB, 333 × 499
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No. 5383
356 kB, 1114 × 1600
pretty cool
>>
No. 5387
136 kB, 1012 × 1600
Finished reading pic related.
I'm in the #nazbolgang now.

If I want to be serious, it was quite a pleasant read. It isn't too hard on the brain, and like a nice cup of coffee it makes your heart beat a bit faster because of how he words stuff.

I don't exactly care for the ideology itself, I only read it because I got it for free, and because everyone likes to shit talk him based on third hand accounts of his Wikipedia page and shit they were taught 20-30 years ago, and I wanted to see for myself. Same reason why I wouldn't decline the chance to take a look at Mein Kampf in the physical.

I still want to read State and Revolution, then I think I'm about done with Leninism.
>>
No. 5389
>>5387
>I got it for free
And you still not belive? XD
>>
No. 5390
>>5389
He sketched this really big problem that banks indirectly control the industry through credit and funding, but he didn't write any solutions for that.
>>
No. 5409
121 kB, 999 × 624
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No. 6040
288 kB, 998 × 1500
I've been trying to torrent this book for a month now but so far no success. Where can I download it?

https://www.amazon.com/New-Geography-Jobs-Enrico-Moretti/dp/0544028058/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533941957&sr=8-1&keywords=the+new+geography+of+jobs
>>
No. 6041
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/

it's there as pdf and epub on a qucik glance
>>
No. 6063
29 kB, 310 × 475
I've decided to read soul mountain. It's excellent so far.
Nothing like the Chinese works I've read so far.
Feels more "personal" and "soul centred", like a Japanese novel.
I don't know what the English edition is like though, since I'm reading it in Hungarian. Been meaning to do so for a long time, since I was gifted this book by a teacher of mine.
Haven't read something Chinese in a while. Last time I did so, I was reading some Ming era novellas from the Kin Ku Ki Kwan.
>>
No. 6067
>>6041
Thank you, I finally found a place where I could download the memoirs of a Chinese high-ranking liberal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_the_State
>>
No. 6285
What does Ernst think of Julius Evola?

I've tried reading Revolt Against the Modern World, but good god, that tome is practically impenetrable. From what I've heard, reading Evola requires a solid knowledge of Plato, Plotinus, Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, the New Testament, St Augustine, Meister Eckhart, the Bhagavad Gita, the Dhammapada, Guénon, Schuon, among others. I've also been told Evola should only be read after one fully knows the canon, and once grasped, reading Evola should simply be considered commentary on the source material.

Even so, the little I understood of Revolt Against the Modern World read like a Marija Gimbutas fantasy land for right-wingers. I can't say my experience with Evola's work was a complete waste, as Ride the Tiger was certainly far more accessible than Revolt. In any case, I found Ernst Jünger's Eumeswil far more rewarding.
>>
No. 6299
78 kB, 674 × 900
Unexceptedly, I've finished this book.
It taks place in present day, present time AHAHAHAHAHA :DDD the late 90s and is centered around deciphering messages, ciphered in times of WW2, which makes a parallel plot. There are math insertions, so it's also interesting as a brief view of cryptography and computers. The end is rushed a bit, but in overall, I can recommend this book.
>>
No. 6301
>>6285
Maybe because Jünger isn’t a giant meme like Evola is, but an actually competent writer.
>>
No. 6314 Kontra
>>6285
>Marija Gimbutas fantasy land

While some of her later books are heavily disputed, she was a well respected scientist, m8.
>>
No. 6316
>>6301
Haven't read all of Jünger but he is a meme somehow. His diaries were to boring for me. I read Afrikanische Spiele and it was ok, more like a non-soft Hesse in a way.
I would like to read Stahlgewitter tho.

If you like Jünger and or are interesed in WW2 I recommend Willy Peter Reese - Mir selber seltsam fremd During his Heimaturlaub he wrote done how he got into war after finishing and about his experience at the eastern front for a couple of years. I'd say he read Jünger.
>>
No. 6317 Kontra
>>6316
*finishing school
>>
No. 6366
>>6316
I've only read Stahlgewittern (in Hungarian), but it was a really good book.
What I meant was that Evola is a meme, because he isn't really the kind of author who has a positive image with academics and people generally, but the right likes him for whatever reason, while Jünger actually produced books that were not only "right wing", but also thoughtful. I wouldn't even call him a right wing author. He doesn't fit into any political category, mainly because he lived for so long and had so many perspectives.
You can't meme him, because he transcendes "being memed" through having a big body of works and being relatively obscure, so it's harder to get a "quick rundown" to repeat ad infinitum and turn into slogans.
>>
No. 6367
>>6366
Maybe no slogan but a meme in the sense of becoming a shining figure in the new right. An intellectual who had conservatives thoughts, also having a thing for (cosmic) mysticism or Schicksal which is an attribute that also correlates well with völkisch if you look into history and that is why he is concerned a right wing writer in Germany.
In Afrikanische Spiele he talks about being an anarchist inside maybe that is what you mean makes him not figure to paint in black and white

So he was made a meme.
>>
No. 6371
>>6367
Does the German right use him as an icon?
Haven't really seen him mentioned in that light anywhere else.
>>
No. 6373
>>6371
>Does the German right use him as an icon?

Not the bydlos ofc but the academics and the more educated ones. KC /l/ was full of people who wanted to discuss Jünger and were outright groupies. And /b/ was pretty much /pol/ during that time.
Carl Schmitt would be the other, tho he is not a novelist. The more unknown are not known to me.
>>
No. 6428
>>6373
Carl Schmidt is also extremely easy to identify as a full on racist, bigot and general miserable cunt who projects a lot.
Some of his ideas were sound, but he embedded them in his framework and always came to the solutions he liked rather than acting like someone who seeks truth. It's irritating and annoying to read his shit, much more so than Jünger, who is at least entertaining and somewhat skillful with the language.
>>
No. 6468
>>6373
I don't really know. Unlike Evola, I can take Jünger seriously for some reason.
Evola has this air of edgyness around him I don't like.
>>
No. 6484
53 kB, 480 × 640
The story of a Frenchy that had the brilliant idea [his words] to visit the USSR during holidays (1962)
>>
No. 6487
54 kB, 782 × 524
>>6484
And while he was drunk, he accidentaly taked plane to saint petersburg from moscow and forgot about this, and found same house on same street but in different city and overall story was IRONIC?
>>
No. 6489
38 kB, 300 × 476
>>6487
Oh no, up to now he and his wife have left Moscow and they only used their car.

Pic a book I reread recently. Curious, good stuff.
>>
No. 6519
>>6489
Oh, my parents had some of his books, I read them as early teenager. He is a german-russian Bill Bryson.
>>
No. 7477
>>6041
Nice, I hadn't noticed your post before, thanks.
>>
No. 7503
199 kB, 280 × 426
I'd say it lasts a chapter before the writing falls into an absolute shambles. I get why it is like this as it was written in a matter of weeks but as soon as the first spoopy thing happens the entire narrative coherence starts falling apart.

I know there have been a couple of movie adaptations made, are those any good? I'd like to put this book down and never return.
>>
No. 7505
An introduction to capitalism with marxist analysis.

I watched Cosmopolis and then wanted to read the novel by DonDenilo but I just started the first pages and thought nah the film is enough for now.

I went to the library today and got Ernst von Salomons The Outlaws
It's a novel about the Freikorps after 1918 afaik. It was published by Rowohlt a famous german publishing house in 1930 so I guess he is some kind of Jünger. I could imagine it suits Jünger fans at least.
Both Ulrike Meinhof and Gudrun Ensslin, the RAF terrorists, read it. Esslin even wrote a letter to Salomon in the 50s or 60s.
>>
No. 7509
256 kB, 800 × 1207
>>7505
"Die Geächteten" definitely seems pretty interesting, but not every writer published in the 30s is some kind of Jünger only because most of them shared a somewhat common ideology. Literature during the times of national-socialsm was extremely diverse and had lots of different interesting authors. You might like to read about the literary magazine "Das Innere Reich" which saw itself as the counter-movement to emigrating intellectuals and stayed loyal to the german state. It's sad that most, if not all of its authors are forgotten by now and nobody wants to publish those hidden gems.
>>
No. 7516
>>7509
I don't really care about NS literature (and their gloryfications), my focus is on anti state and the outlaw theme here. And just to correct: The Outlaws was written and published before the Third Reich. Yet Salomon wrote pieces that were published in the 1930s.
>>
No. 7522
>>7509
Are you an expert on this literature magazine?
I read the wiki article on Das Innere Reich and there is a Croatian poet listed as an author for the Innere Reich. I tried to google but I couldn't find anything besides the German wiki article that links him to the Innere Reich periodical.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Innere_Reich

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Goran_Kova%C4%8Di%C4%87

If you have any infa on this I'd be thankful.
>>
No. 7527
>>7522
I'm just getting into it (and reading a novel from one of the publishers, Mechow) but I believe that there generally aren't too much experts on it.
From what I got from the wikipedia articles it really sounds kind of weird though because Kovačič suppusodely became famous through his poem Jama which described the horrors of war. As far as I know the majority of the authors from "Das Innere Reich" were soldiers in WW1 themselves and didn't have any problems with realistically depicting their experience, but still they didn't necessarily see it as a bad thing. That the guy was fighting for Tito and wrote about the cruelties of the Ustaša doesn't really fit either, but then again the magazine might have changed throughout the years (not to mention that Kovačič joined the partisans in the '42, who knows if he maybe wasn't more right leaning before) and all kind of writers generally always had contact to others, so it may as well be that some writer from "Das Innere Reich" read something from Kovačič or even was personally writing with him and liked it, maybe even one of the publishers themselves. Even authors of all kind of different political views stayed in contact so really it doesn't have to mean much that he was on the other side during the war. Rudolf G. Binding for example, also a famous writer from the said literary magazine, was writing a lot with Hesse and as far as I know even personally knew Klaus and Thomas Mann. So most of what I said is mere speculation, but my best guess would be that he somehow found his way into the magazine while it doesn't sound very typical.
Maybe if I get my hands on some of the magazines or a scientif work on that topic I might be a able to tell you more.
>>
No. 7538
The Federalist Papers. So far they are trying to use fear to get the readers to be in favor of a united federation. It's pretty boring too. They elaborate more then necessary to bring their point across imo.
>Here are 20 nitpicked reasons why having independent states would lead to instant and brutal civil war
I mean they are mostly correct, a unified country is more secure against internal as well as external threats but I don't like how they go about trying to convince people.
>>
No. 7609
>>7527

>That the guy was fighting for Tito and wrote about the cruelties of the Ustaša doesn't really fit either.

Exactly what triggered me, he also had a jewish mother which makes it even more weird.
>>
No. 7669
35 kB, 326 × 499
He didn do nuthing!

English drug smuggler "framed" by Russian customs in Moscow airport (2003), winds up in Mordovia gulag for foreigners

https://www.amazon.co.uk/English-Prisoner-Tig-Hague/dp/0141033932
>>
No. 7818
18 kB, 300 × 200
>>7538
>I don't like how they go about trying to convince people
From The Federalist 15:
>IN THE course of the preceding papers, I have endeavored, my fellow-citizens, to place before you, in a clear and convincing light, the importance of Union to your political safety and happiness. I have unfolded to you a complication of dangers to which you would be exposed, should you permit that sacred knot which binds the people of America together be severed or dissolved by ambition or by avarice, by jealousy or by misrepresentation.
They use fear as a hook, and then 50 papers later Hamilton is explaining mundane details like why the President should be elected every four years. I enjoy the old long-winded political writing style, but it still has the same appeal to emotion as our current 15 second soundbites.
>>
No. 8849
127 kB, 608 × 865
37 kB, 314 × 475
  1. well, I'm not sure I'd join the crowd who say it's a must read if you're interested in the Vietnam War; it's a nice book, probably even great but, to my taste, the author fails at conveying some of his thoughts (e.g. I didn't really get his point why LBJ had decided to get in the thick of the whole shit - yeah, "Deep State", "that's how System works" yada-yada and yet it didn't sound solid), anyway I'd recommend the book even to those who hardly know anything about the war
  2. it was a worthwhile read, I didn't mind author's (at times pretty groundless) assumptions for Luther's motives and stuff but, at the same time, I find Lyndal Roper's book on Luther to be better, still a pretty enjoyable read
>>
No. 8856
I've been reading Chingiz Aitmatov's "The Day Lasts More Than a Hundred Years", beautiful book, gives me shivers sometimes.

Plan to read "Sandro of Chegem" by Fazil Iskander next.
And "Manaraga" by Russian post-modernist writer Vladimir Sorokin
>>
No. 9702
I've read Roadside Picnic yesterday in one go. Very simple language, although I think I've got myself a first Polish translation, and the old Polish was giving it a nice vibe.

Very easy but satisfying read, atleast for me - didn't read anything in two years or so.

I recommend, good story. The only thing that there's in common with Stalker games is, well, the stalkers are there and zone is too. Kinda. And that's about it.

If anyone could recommend easy reads like that for me, I'd be happy to read them!
>>
No. 9706
>>9702
perhaps just some other scifi?

Kafka is simple language but his novels and stories are pretty much enigmatic

I've read bits and pieces for my paper. Some poems by Stefan George and a lyrical play by Hugo von Hofmannsthal which was translated into English as Death and the Fool were the fool has to discern that he wasted his life and never really lived or felt life he only read books about it. But the intensity of his last hours, when he has the dialog with death make up to it and he rejoices death as the turn maker who lets him live what he always wanted, to truly feel life.
>>
No. 9712
65 kB, 488 × 488
This was pretty good.
The writing isn't "pretty", but the initial goal I think was to paint a contemporary picture in both setting, characters and language. The entire thing feels like one big sentence, a far fetched thought, with every smaller sentence beginning somewhere during the previous sentence, and they all cling into one another, forming a giant mishmash of nonsense that exist purely to exist, so that there is more than nothing, to keep the quite away.
Tell you the truth, it does feel realistic. It really is contemporary. Parts of it can be heard on buses on the lips of the people. It's almost surreal how close it is to the general thought process of your average joe youngster, even if a good 20 years have passed and some thing changed.
Maybe it's a bit dated now, but I'd say it's because we've left behind that awkward proto-digital era where relations broke down a bit, and now through the threads of social media we've pulled the people ever closer together, knitting with said threads this ever greater Frankenstein's Monster that has no honesty and genuine passion in it. Existing purely to avoid non-existence.
It's somewhat dated because the current generation gave up the need for genuine passion and genuine souls. Nobody cares. "Life sucks. Then you die."
Frightening stuff.
>>
No. 9766
>>9702
Both Lem and Strugatski brothers fit well.
Also check classical american sci fi. I think for beginning "Martian chronicles" by Bradbury and "i, robot" by asimov would fit the best
>>
No. 9796
421 kB, 650 × 1047
Today I finished "Die Chronika des fahrenden Schülers" by Clemens Brentano. It was a really beautiful read, full of christian romanticism, nature, tragedy, knights and maidens. One sentence was so intense I suddenly almost started crying on the bus. Sadly Brentano didn't finish it, would have been an interesting novel. Another thing I like about the text was the high amount of subplots (for instance a character tells a story and in this story a character tells his own story etc.) which seems to be a common thing in his works and creates a really cozy atmosphere.
Now I'm not sure what to read next, but most probably it will be "Die schwarze Spinne" by Jeremias Gotthelf.
>>
No. 9798 Kontra
>>9796
>Another thing I like about the text was the high amount of subplots

one or more layers of embedded stories were more common back then in contrast to today I think.

The classic example is persian 1001 Nacht tales
>>
No. 9806
466 kB, 1280 × 1024
>>9796
fug

...

Me? I am reading a book about anecdotes from Barcelona. Don't remember the title
>>
No. 9869
151 kB, 1135 × 811
Chaucer's Canterbury Tales
>>
No. 9870
>>9869
>russian
>plenty of bees
We found the source of bee serfdom
>>
No. 9871
Reading parts of David Lowenthals 1997 Possesed by the Past where he renders a difference between heritage and history.

Guess what, imageboards are 99% of the time about the former which has more or less nothing to do with the latter
>>
No. 9872
1,9 MB, 500 × 281
>>9869
>The Hungarian's characterization
Hits too close to home.
Delete this.
>>
No. 9879
>>9870
I am actually wondering if this is the serious of Communists shooting Ukrainians for eating bees
>>
No. 9880
>>9871
>imageboards are 99% of the time about the former which has more or less nothing to do with the latter
Elaborate, please?
>>
No. 9883
435 kB, 500 × 775
171 kB, 1527 × 989
>>9880
He's basically pointing out that 99% of the time it's just burger tier muh heritaging with no regard at all for history. Case in point, you have a bunch of poltards bitching about say Christianity and acting everyone should revert to a smattering of ancient tribal religions. These sorts of people like to completely and utterly disregard a thousand years of history. It's often Americans doing it, who in turn ignore 200 years of our history as Americans, when it all really boils down to some kind of absolutely fucktarded Wiccan larping that absolutely shits all over their own history. That is but one example.

The problem is the muh heritage types are the dumbest, most ignorant people I've ever talked to except maybe select New Ager UFO faggotry, however I suspect a lot of them are also suffering from a variety of mental disorders and drug addictions to at least help explain it. I mean these are the kinds of people who will do shit like claim Star Trek and Star Wars are "too SJW and anti-Nazi now" despite literally always being pro-liberal democracy, or somehow not understanding that Republicans are way more pro-Zionist than Democrats. It is not just total ignorance of far history, but also their complete ignorance of even 5 years ago. This is because a majority of those people are also literal children so from the undeveloped perspective 5 years is ancient history and 10 years ago is prehistoric.

And by all that I mean to draw your attention to the fact that using the internet as a basis for sweeping generalizations generally runs into this problem particularly in talking about discussions of "history" vs heritage. There's a reason why so many idiots on the internet are like this and it's usually coming from Plastic Paddy 14/88s mutts. Which is funnier still because in a sense they can't even genuinely discuss heritage either, hence why they often revert to the most idiotic Disneyfied stereotypes of what they think ancient Europeans did because they saw it on TV.
>>
No. 9893
>>9883
>It's often Americans doing it,
You're doing the same thing by assuming that Americans do this more often than others. Americans do this quite less than slavs, chinks, japs, germans, Italians. It might be just a novel concept to you. In here this kind of people even have their
>>
No. 9894
>>9893
Fug my mistake, pushed reply button accidentally.
In here this type of people even have huge representation in politics. It's the whole reason butthurt belt exists, why Russia is evil and etc.
People basically don't like to learn from history. They like to see their pride and excuses there. And we are currently passing through quite virtual era with many troubles we don't know how to solve. So many people turned to their ancestry.
>>
No. 9897
>>9883
people who learn history from blogs and video games are biggest cancer there is.

they always manage to be retarded somehow.

also wtf is gender history? don't expect someone who follow ranke school care about it, annales school generally forced it really.
>>
No. 9898
I've started reading Ortega's Revolt of the Masses. Nothing eye opening so far.
Still have an epic poem to go for schoolwork. I'll listen to it in an audiobook format because I have a cold again and my head hurts. No way I can absorb it through reading.
Or just sit down and read it anyway. That'll do. Fuck the audiobooks.
>>
No. 9946
24 kB, 204 × 300
I really need to read more scifi

>After briefly contemplating suicide, Mandella assumes the post of commanding officer of a "strike force", commanding soldiers who speak a language largely unrecognizable to him, whose ethnicity is now nearly uniform ('vaguely Polynesian' in appearance) and who are exclusively homosexual. He is disliked by his soldiers because they have to learn 21st century English to communicate with him and other senior staff, and because he is heterosexual.
This also would be a lot funnier if KC still existed

Also to the brick, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock although frankly I think there is too much ideological confusion of technology with Capitalist modes of industry, and likewise would say the problem with Soviet literature was probably the same, the difference being that Sovoks acknowledged party loyalty and ideological purity as a thing, whereas Capitalist societies tend to normalize these values and take them for granted, pretending that's "just the way things are" while promoting and enforcing the ideology. Although
>To follow transient jobs, people have become nomads. For example, immigrants from Algeria, Turkey and other countries go to Europe to find work. Transient people are forced to change residence, phone number, school, friends, car license, and contact with family often. As a result, relationships tend to be superficial with a large number of people, instead of being intimate or close relationships that are more stable. Evidence for this is tourist travel and holiday romances.
Isn't this essentially the exact same thing that happened in the Soviet Union?
>>
No. 10726
99 kB, 200 × 296
111 kB, 200 × 304
112 kB, 200 × 297
Can Ernst reccomend reading The Riftwar Cycle by Raymond E. Feist? I want read it first, before playing Betrayal at Krondor videogame but don't know if is to worth it?
>>
No. 10729
Last thing I read was an essay on Japanese aesthetics by Junichiro Tanizaki called "In Praise of Shadows". While I would agree with the sentiment that it is nice for things to be unpolished and show wear and tear & dimly lit places have their special appeal, it read like the ramblings of an old writer who is struggling to write something because he just doesn't know how to do anything else. I also read his novel "The Key" by him some time ago and found it rather contrived, though I enjoyed it a bit more. But I must conclude that I don't really like Tanizaki.

Other than that I only listened to a business audiobook recently, "Zero to One" by Peter Thiel. It was really just the same stuff he always says in interviews: technological progress is the most important thing ever, the educational system is fucked, "what's an important truth few people agree with you on?" yadda yadda
It's rather uncanny how he always tells the same stories & anecdotes.

I want to read something good again, but my heda feels too fucked right now.
Actually a few days ago I woke up with an idea for a story and made some notes about the characters in the middle of the night, so I might rather write something. Just thinking about it already gives me a headache
>>
No. 10759
24 kB, 279 × 400
After finishing Walpurgisnacht by Gustav Meyrink (a great and underrated writer, his depiction of Prague is beautifully feverish and intense) I read Die Marquise von O. by Heinrich von Kleist, which was a nice read (even though the long sentences packed with informations are not that easy to read if you're not used to it) but didn't get me as much as Michael Kohlhaas. Other than that I've been reading a practical introduction into journalism today, but only a few pages as a lot of the information is banal but still important. Also occasionally I'm reading Ovid's Ars Amatoria, it's fun and useful but I progress slowly as I generally do when reading non-fiction. Tonight I'll start reading Houellebecq's Submission, I wanted to read something by him for a long time but always had other priorities, but now I feel like I'm in the right mood for it, also it seems like an easy read.
>>
No. 11165
22 kB, 290 × 441
Read two short novellas by Paul Heyse, L'Arrabbiata and Helene Morten. The first one was about a young fisherman and a poor girl finding love, but before they came together he threatened to kill her and himself and she bit his hand and seriously injured him this way. Funny and technically beautiful work, but nothing special. The second one was about a practical tradesman marrying a beautiful and intellectual young girl, after a while she got unhappy so he let her talk to another intellectual friend which made her happy but him jealous so he went away for two weeks without answering her letters. To prove him her love she sailed away to get find some of his ships (I won't explain this sub-plot), but as she'd always get seasick she died after finding the ships only after him coming back, knowing that he lost the one who really loved him. Sounds like kitsch, I know but it really moved me. The whole story was embedded in the narrators telling about staying on the countryside, where he found an old abandoned but beautiful building, in which an old man lived who told him his story - the husband of the famous Helene Morten. Really tragical story, would recommend.

It's as tragical that Heyse is almost forgotten, being one of the most well-known and liked authors in the 19th century. He wasn't only a great writer but also a gentleman, who would often host literary conventions and knew a lot of authors and helped everyone he knew. Everyone liked him, Fontane went as far as to think that after the Goethe-age, there would be a period called the Heyse-age. History truly is weird sometimes.
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No. 11181
“Plausible Fairytales, or Wandering Around the World in the XXIX Century” Thaddeus Bulgarin, 1824

>...At that time professor's wife with two lovely daughters and a young son came in. Women were dressed in tunics made of woven matting, and dyed in iridescent colors. A boy of 10 wore a home robe. Each woman had a leather fan in her left hand, covered with an impenetrable varnish, to hide from immodest eyes, armed with telescopic glasses, which were in great fashion among men. The madam said a few words to me in an unknown language, but when she saw that I did not understand, she asked in Russian do I speak Arabic.
“No,” I replied, “in our time, very few scientists have been studying this language.”
“This is our diplomatic language, and it's quite popular” said the professor, “just like French was for you.”
Women could not hide a smile with these words, and the eldest daughter asked me:
“Could it be possible for your ladies had to speak French, monotonous, almost boring sounding and artistically poorest of all languages?”
“In our times,” I answered, “the ladies spoke Russian only with lackeys, coachmen and maids, and they exhausted all their wisdom in imitating French pronunciation. Those who did not speak French,” I continued, “were revered by the ignorant in the big light, although sometimes it happened that those of the Russians who always spoke to each other in French were the greatest ignoramuses.
“All this is repeated now with us,” said the professor, “with the only difference that the French language in our time is the same as Finnish was for you, and the rich, sonorous and flexible Arabic language has replaced the French.”
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No. 11184
There's quite a list of books I'd really really like to read but will never read because of both a demanding schedule and a lack of vital energy. These are: Plato's Dialogues, Seneca's Moral Epistles, Virgil's Eclogues (or Aeneid?), maybe some basic Aristotle (Nicomachean Ethics specifically), but the most significant items on this list are (1) the Hindu Upanishads and (2) the works of Bahá'u'lláh, ba'hai sacred texts; these are extremely profound.
I've watched the 2018 movie about Salinger just recently and actually thought about re-reading Catcher in the Rye again (last read it ~16 years ago), but upon opening it I've found that any sort of storytelling or fiction simply doesn't work for me; zero motivation to follow any sort of a plot, after a history of intense immersion in classical texts like the ones named above.
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No. 11186
>>11184
>Plato's Dialogues
Most of them are really short, so you can take it slow and read one at a time.
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No. 11187
>>11184
It could be possible to read them in 1-2 years without putting too much effort into it I imagine. A big book per month, 1h a day or just 5 days a week.
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No. 11193
Reading Feldpost war mail from students during WW1.

It's basically incomprehensible for people like us. I mean not that I did not dream of engaging and dying in war before...but in the end it's so low and far away from being heroic or meaningful.
There was a long peace period before WW1 not as long as today but I think people would go for the same trap as young people did back then. Not sure if people in war areas today felt the "european" feel before action took place.
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No. 11195
57 kB, 497 × 800
>>11193
It's primarily because the concept of warfare changed tremendously with WWI, and this would be something that would change not only attitudes towards war, but societal values surrounding war itself. War suddenly became far more macabre than ever before. The spirit of societies itself changed, war could no longer be seen as a noble activity. It became far more of a gruesome activity in which the nation that could withold the most torturing and bleeding would win. It is not a coincidence that it was during WWI that the idea of the "home front" appeared.

It was the most tragic and gamechanging event in terms of warfare of all time, although I might be biased since I'm a WWI autist. Although I am a WWI afficionado because it really is a clash between the Europe of old and the macabre reality of modern warfare.
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No. 11199
Finally dived into the libretto of Wagner's Nibelungenlied interpretation.
It's the prettiest thing I've ever read so far.

At first it seemed intimidating, but then after a closer examination I've realized that the characters are the same, and only the names are changed around, like Odin => Wotan, Loki => Loge, Thor => Donner, Völsung => Wälsung

Of course, if this was my first dive into the world of the epic, I would have been lost completely. It definitely "demands" a lot from the reader.
I've decided to read a play a day, so I'll be over it in four days, just like when it's played in Bayreuth. So far it has been two days, I've read Das Rheingold and Die Walküre. Tomorrow I'll be reading Siegfried, and on Friday Götterdämmerung.

I don't know what makes this epic circle so touching. It just resonates well with me for some reason.
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No. 11203
>>11195
I'd say it's a bias since only the numbers changed and a complete lack of movement of fronts. The idea of home fronts is also silly since it isn't like warfare wasn't previously stealing people's land and rasping their women and murdering all their males.
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No. 11205
>>11203
You are simplifying it to an absurd degree. Yes, numbers changed, numbers always change.
But what matters is which numbers change. In WW1 the problem was that the firing capabilities evolved far beyond mobility or armour, so whoever attacked, suffered atrocious losses.
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No. 11207
17 kB, 284 × 475
Recently read pic related. It was my first encounter with Far-East literature so far and I find the Japanese way of story-telling both, appealing and odd. My edition was a collection of 18 short stories and while they were all pleasant to read in terms of language and style, there have been a few that additionally to being well-written I will probably remember for the rest of my life, and be honest Ernst, how many of the books you may have read even just not so long ago have you forgotten already.
[Spoiler] if you should decide to give it a try, I'd recommend you to have a glass of wine and a cigarette after the story 'Hell Screen'. You are going to need it. [/spoiler]
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No. 11209 Kontra
>>11207
self-contra for spoiler failure
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No. 11210
>>11207
Excellent. Akutagawa was my introduction into Japanese literature too. I was given a copy by a teacher to read.
Made me fall in love with Japanese literature.
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No. 11212
>>11210
Would you have another recommendation for me? Because I just stumbled upon that one in a book shop and no idea even where to start. And since I'm spending a considerable amount of my life in public transportation, my ebook reader has become my loyal companion.
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No. 11213
>>11212
Well, you can always try and look for more of his novellas. And he also wrote a book titled Kappa, which is essentially his suicide note.
If you are looking for contemporaries, then there is Natsume Soseki, he is the father of Japanese literature. I only read a novel of his titled The Gate, it's an excellent work. He wrote many others like Botchan, or I am a cat. Then if you want to go psychological, then there is Dazai Osamu's No Longer Human, the single best selling book to date in Japan. That's a good one, if a bit depressive. (By bit I mean a lot.)

Then you could also try with Junichiro Tanizaki's works, but those are a bit more raw as far as I know. Not as elegant. The Key is a borderline pornographic novel of his. Or there is the book Some prefer nettles. He also wrote a novel that deals with the cultural clash of east vs west, titled Naomi

Now if you want to look at peak elegance and the best of Japanese literature (in my opinion), then you might find refuge in Kawabata Yasunari's works. Touching stories, elegantly worded prose, almost every line is a haiku. The first nobel prize winner from Japan. From him I'd recommend Snow Country, The Master of Go and The Lake.
He also wrote teeny-tiny novellas, called Palm of the Hand Stories. Most of them are less than a page long, but they do carry the essence of his work.

A good friend of his was Mishima Yukio, who's also an excellent writer, if a bit more traditional and political. If you can separate politics from Mishima's works, then you have a top tier writer who bets all his worth on aesthetics, even his life is like a piece of art.
He wrote dramas (My friend, Hitler, Madam de Sade and an adaptation of your beloved Hell's screen) and novels like Temple of the Golden Pavilion and The sailor who fell from grave with the sea.

You don't have to read or like all of them, if you don't find them enjoyable, just try with the next one. Thankfully, most of them left behind a considerably body of work, so if you like one of them, you can always come back for seconds. (And we are only scratching the surface with names.)
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No. 11240
>>11213
I personally didn't find earlier Mishima novels (Confessions of a Mask, Thirst for Love, Forbidden Colors) very political, so maybe it's better to start with them, if we're talking about his works.
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No. 11261
>>11213
Thanks a bunch! I got myself No longer Human now will start reading it after I finished Olga by Berndhard Schlink what I'm currently reading.
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No. 11262
Well, I am thinking about Bulgakov (I read it 2-3 years ago, but he's really cool for me)
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No. 11264
Almost done with Wagner's tetralogy.
I want to cry, it's so beautiful, even if I'm only reading it as a drama.
It's also interesting to see how Siegfried is a bit of a prick in his version imho.
I think I'm in love with this version (too).
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No. 11539
After finishing Houellebecq's Submission, which is a great and sometimes outright hilarious novel by the way, I'm halfway through with Platform now. It doesn't get me as much as Submission did (I think the combination of obscene sex scenes, discussions of islamism and the new right and french decadent literature was perfect for me) but it's still a nice read, the text on the back of the book sadly already spoilered that there will be a terror attack happening so I'm sort of waiting for it. The description of sex-tourism in Thailand was great however but in the middle of the book the story is getting sort of stale after the protagonist started a relationship. Still it's also incredibly comfy and gives you a lot of insight into what M.H. thought about the tourism industry of the early 00s. I've read that some of his readers especially like him for the essayistic parts of his novels and I like them as well. Don't let yourself be fooled by the hype, he really deserves it.
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No. 11551
>>11539
>however but in the middle of the book the story is getting sort of stale after the protagonist started a relationship.
Is life not worth living without pointless strife and conflict? Is this why people start and maintain ill advised and pointlessly destructive affairs?
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No. 11565
>>11539
Atomised is the best book by houlebecq as for me. Submission is quite good in a way that it's describes well how politics and submission itself works, but still too much fictional.
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No. 11755
Recently finished Turgenev's Notes of a Hunter. It was my first encounter with Turgenev's and i enjoyed it very much. Felt a bit like Hemingway.
Currently reading a series of crime fiction novels by Jean-Luc Bannalec. It's light entertainment, but good light entertainment. No political opinions in there and the characters aren't cliché.
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No. 12419
Just want to get thru Der Wanderer zwischen beiden Welten by Walter Flex, I got it in the mail today for literature class on WW1/WW2 war-themed novels.

It's so fucking kitschy that I sometimes had trouble to hold back laughter. It's a cross of propaganda and German boy scout romanticism. How can some new right publishers actually repress it as something to read today? This book was a massive sell in 1917 I have the 5th printing which is also from 1917! and following, but reading it today really makes one aware that the past is a foreign country. How could you read this today and say: yes that's it. Even as a new righter. Jünger is up next tho and the writing skill will be different, I'm really excited to see which words he will use to paint the war and war experience.
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No. 12447
I'm through with 70 pages Ian Macdonald's The New Shostakovich
The post-revolutionary intellectual life truly was hell. Constant fights between the government, the proletariat artistic associations, and the old fashioned institutions that slave away under the new Bolshevik regime, trying to survive and make sense of what just happened in October.

Just the thought that if I were a writer at the time and the cheka could come up to my door and "question" me for my writing being "not socialist enough" makes me terrified and pale as snow.

I'm interested how the later chapters develop. The first one seems overly interesting.
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No. 12449
>>12447
>I'm through with 70 pages Ian Macdonald's The New Shostakovich

Interesting. Please elaborate on neat findings within the book.
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No. 12457
Currently reading Der Wehrwolf by Hermann Löns, a novel set during The Thirty Years' War about a group of agonized farmers taking up the brutal fight against raiders and other fiends. So far it's very beautiful, well written, a lot of archaic words and dialect. The farmers' everyday life is written about very authentically, maybe a bit romantic but not all romanticizing. It reminded of Michael Kohlhaas more than once as the first of many injustices that happened to the main protagonist, the farmer Harm Wulf, was that his horse got stolen. Also the book itself is centered around the theme of good men being forced to become cruel during curel times after having been treated cruel themselves, so that's a similiarity too. Before reading the book I sort of had the prejudice that it would be a very brutal novel (mostly fed by the knowledge that it sold very well during WW2 and that it was given to hitler youth soldiers to read shortly before the end of the war) but actually it has a lot of anacreontic elements in it as well, which I especially like. Like, between the horrible happenings of war, there are still moments of love, wine and happiness.
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No. 12487 Kontra
>>12457
>given out to soldiers during ww2

They often had edited works I could imagine. The Walter Flex book I talked about has nearly no cruelty in it, war is just a big boy scoutish adventure but he "sadly" loses a comerade who is talked about in a mastubatory way tbh which confuses him, but that's seen has bad anyway.
A novel like yours maybe is to depict an ideal that should came back, something to fight for?
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No. 12490
>>12449
It tries to elaborate on the fact that he wasn't a communist, but rather a cynical Holy Fool who only worked with the government out of compromise and a fear for his life.
The main argument is that he comes from a family of narodniks who were more democratic than the Bolsheviks.
So far it talked about the second symphony's conception, and how it was a compromise between him needing cash, the "Bourgeoisie" musicians' longing for something structurally modern, and the Russian Association of Proletarian Musician's demands to make it a "Workmen's music".
So the Intelligentsia got the first part, representing a cavalcade of sounds, trying to mimic revolutionary chaos, and the RAPM got the second part with the chorus glorifying Lenin, all written in a hasty manner to get some money.

Honestly, it's pretty good, packed with information, and it's well written.
This is a lot more colourful and interesting than the "Soviet, un-Russian composer"'s image my teacher told me.
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No. 12546
>>12457
Sounds good
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No. 12549
I've read Beowulf a while ago, and brushed it off as a primitive narrative that's neither pretty or interesting, but is rather important from a linguistic standpoint.
Though I might have been wrong. I'll re-read that sometime and judge it again.

Anyway, already through about half of The Song of Roland.
Fantastic work. I like the heroic portrayals, the language, the battle description.
It's great.
(This is only a weekend read, because it's short. On weekdays I'm still reading the Shostakovich biography)
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No. 12601 Kontra
What's the point of reading when there are movies?
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No. 12702
>>12601
To be honest, I like that reading takes more time than watching a movie. True, you might receive a bigger amount of information while watching a movie than you would while you would read a book in the same amount of time. But personally I believe sometimes it feels good to lean back and purposely slower yourself down. Life has become so fast and stressful these days, especially when you are living in a city and we are constantly exposed to way more stimuli than we could possibly 'digest' (in lack of a better word). While reading, it doesn't matter if you pause in between two pages for a minute or two just to process what you just read or think about a chapter for the rest of the day, while a movie is meant to be watched as a whole.
Reading is taking a break somehow, yet being entertained.
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No. 12705
53 kB, 780 × 291
>>12601
There no point. Reading is sucks! Go eat more your daily burgers god bless.
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No. 12725
Hamlet, but I need to concentrate to understand and enjoy the olde time language.
Going to buy some SAS/Special forces fiction after this.
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No. 13072
Reading Paul Heyse's Andrea Delfin at the moment, a novella set in late 18th century venice where an aristocrat, not being actually guilty of anything, lost his family and life because of the malevolent venetian inquisition. After hiding in Brescia under the Name of Andrea Delfin and working as a notary he decides to get his revenge on the inquisition and returns to venice where he lets himself get recruited by the inquisition and starts murdering their people. It's really great so far, the writing is superb and the depiction of the city of Venice is extremely well done as well. Also it's unexpectedly thrilling and intriguing and the overall atmosphere is something I like a lot too. Now that I think of it, this would make a good tv-show nowadays, especially as 18th and 19th century settings seem to be en vogue.
Won't lose too much words on Heyse himself as I already did that in one of my former posts, but slowly finishing the collection of novellas I own I was looking around for some more books by him and the situation is worse than I imagined it. Almost no-one is publishing his works anymore, besides the usual copy-paste no-name publishers. Obviously there's a lot on the antiquary book market but every single book has old german script. I never really bothered getting used to reading it but now I have no other choice. Especially as Heyse wrote some novels (like Kinder der Welt or Gegen den Strom) as well which sound pretty interesting.
Also there are other older authors I want to read who aren't published anymore so it seems like I'll need to get through with it. I mean, I can read it but it seems like it will be a pain in the ass reading a book in fraktur for the first time, but the possibilities I'll have afterwards will be definitely worth it.
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No. 13102
Does anybody use Goodreads?

If so, what do you think about an EC group there?

This thread is good enough for discussing, but there you can snoop more easily what others read and there's the possibility of good old low-effort social media dopamine kicks ("liking")
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No. 13104
>>13102
I do, but I only use it for recommendations, because I'm allergic to anything "social". Why do you care what others read, anyway? If they read it and liked it, they can make post about it here describing their impressions, so other Ernsts could decide if that book interests them. If they didn't like it, they just forget about it.
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No. 13107
>>13072
Fraktur is rather easy. It will just take a little longer to read once you know most letters. I had to read book in Fraktur with 17 the first time. Probably takes an hour or more to get used to most of it. Some letters are still a mystery to me today - I've read quite a handful by now - but you have to guess then from the rest.
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No. 13129
I've finished Machiavelli's "Discourses" yesterday, it was a very interesting read. Much wider and more general than "The Prince", though it's been a while since I read that. All the examples he used from Roman history pleased my autism. Alas, the eras he talks about with all the city-states and constant turmoil were quite different from ours.
While some of the principles he talks about might be timeless, a lot of the ideas about warfare seem out of date, though his method of thinking might still be transferable.

Then I picked up "Human, All Too Human" by Nietzsche which coincidentally I left off at the chapter on "Man in Society" so it was a pretty hilarious contrast how carelessly Nietzsche treats the Romans, talking about "dull Roman patriotism" etc., compared to the reverent and scholarly Machiavelli.
I have to admit, there are few writers that really stimulate me to think about what I'm reading like Nietzsche. There's just something about his way with words, the astuteness and brevity and how his thoughts reach pretty much into the current day that makes his writings still seem very contemporary.
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No. 13134
>>13129
regarding
>Nietzsche

He is quite a modern person, as he opts for anti establishment/tradition. Everybody who was anti-establishment around 1900 had a fucking copy of Nietzsche.
Modernity is not over, maybe the big meta narrative of constant "progress". In sofar we might be postmodern. but the fragmentation is still there, the relation between individual and society was similar 150-100years ago, at least that's when people noticed something is changing. We still have lines of continuance next to things that come out of the blue or that have been aborted.

Also Nietzsche is a vitalist, quite a luring philosophical position, even today. Nietzsche can be read like a prison breaker from stale established life forms in (western) comfort.
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No. 13177
>>13129
That sounds interesting will give it a read.

Regarding Ancient military tactics which are vague you read Sun Tzu, both very brief but I like tha almost bullet point paragraphs.
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No. 13247
This thread is pure gold infa 100%

>>7509
This got me interested but it seems like it's never been translated to another language which is making me sad. Do you think there is a chance that a translated copy can be found somewhere? I am considering learning german to get a piece of this and other german literature which has no english translation.

https://www.amazon.com/Die-Bosniaken-kommen-Elitetruppe-1879-1918/dp/3702005749
The book Die Bosniaken Kommen written by an Austrian WW1 soldier who fought along with yugoslavian/bosnian regiment is another book i want to read. But shamelessly it only has a serbo-croatian translation and I want to learn more about this supposed mixed division of serb,croat and muslim.
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No. 13852
Where could I find this article for free?
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00220388.2017.1417587

I really want to read it.
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No. 13854
615 kB, 21 pages
>>13852
I found it on libgen.io. They have a lot of articles from various journals. File attached.
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No. 13862
>>13854
Thank you. I'm IQ89 when it comes to pirating books and articles, I just don't know where to look for.
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No. 13864
>>13862
libgen.io for books, sci hub for articles with DOI

https://sci-hub.tw/

just copypast the DOI or adress of the article into the mask, then enjoy the pdf
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No. 13878
>>13864
Protip for sci-hub: Create a new bookmark in you bookmark bar with the following code instead of an URL:

javascript:location.href = location.origin.replace(/^https/, 'http') + '.sci-hub.tw' + location.pathname + location.search


Then you just click on it once you're e.g. on the page in >>13852 and it automatically takes you to the sci-hub page. Works great 99% of the time
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No. 13980
>>13864
Thanks, but it was a shitty read, I'm disappointed, not going to bother with this author again.
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No. 14061
test
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No. 14170
>>13980
This is a much better paper talking about related issue
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228817324_Developmental_States_in_East_Asia_A_comparison_of_the_Japanese_and_Chinese_Experiences

but instead of talking about Chile, it talks about Japan and China, still the discussion is also about liberalism vs developmentalism. Very much worth the read.
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No. 14171 Kontra
>>14170
Also forgot to say that the paper also seems to have lots of interesting names in the bibliography for those who want to read more about the subject.
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No. 14337
I remember how I readed Raptor Red.
First about book - it kind of fictiin but with science basis. It describe life of one dinosaur female from perspective of her instincts, to show readed life of typical animal in that time period and what problems and issues they encountered.

Well I readed it on Physics lesson back in high school. It was not profile lessons for our class and it was late when everyone already picked and prepeared to final goverment exams on their profile stuff and basicly our cource of physics ended so teached mostly talk with class about life things. It was one of the last lessons. And when teacher spotted I readed something - she asked what it is. I answered that it book about dinosaurs. She asked if it science book. I answered that it more fictional. With smile she asked rithoric question about if I not too old for this kind of books. All class laughed and I felt hell lot of shame. And yes I readed it because it was about dinosaur girl.
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No. 14343
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No. 14696
3,5 MB, 3031 × 4203
Gurkha by Kailish Limbu, it was added to an order for free.

It's written by a Gurkha and regards his account of a particularly fierce siege in Afghanistan in 2006. I'm not really that interested in that war though, he did mention that the Gurkha selection process only accepts one in every thousand applicants though which is interesting.
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No. 14741
What are the best European, preferably French, comics/graphic novels?

I've got an archive on mega.nz from a thread on the old Ernstchan, but I don't like any of it. The artwork is usually cringy and bad, half the stories are about Nazi mysticism, and the other half are boring or cringy fantasy.
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No. 14743
>>14741
You could try browsing through libgen, it has a comics section. I think your main issue is going to be finding ''translated'' comics, since unlike japshit there's no huge mass of retards to machine translate all the comics.
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No. 14744
>>14743
Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm learning French, and can already read it quite well, which is why I'm looking for French comics. If I was reading for pure pleasure I'd just go find a good manga, the Japs are better writers in general IMO.
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No. 14746
>>14744
Goodreads has comic lists in different languages. Maybe just look at one of those and download the comics that look decent off libgen.
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No. 14906
132 kB, 220 × 321
Currently reading The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea by Yukio Mishima. So far the language and its imagery are quite beautiful, even though the flowery descriptions of the coastal town feel a bit repetitive at times. Generally it has a very aestethically tight atmosphere which is captivating in a subtle way. Lots of very interesting scenes that already found their way into my mind. It's mainly about young boy Noboru who is part of an edgy nihilistic teenager clique of rich students who gather in secret meetings to discuss their superiority to adults and kill kittens, his widowed mother Fusako and her relationship with the sailor Ryuji. So far it only does not feel too enthralling but I'm only getting close to the first half of the novel so I expect more interesting things to happen plot-wise.
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No. 14926
10 kB, 300 × 300
Nudged by the announcement of the upcoming release of his new book and the leaked article on Trump (as well as the recent riots in Paris), I finally got around to read Houellebecq's Soumission yesterday.
Well, I knew what I was getting into so I quite enjoyed it. The usual mixture of pulp, ennui and mouthpiece characters espousing their views on contemporary cultural and political developments.
Nevertheless I think it can be used as a stepping stone to think quite seriously about the future of European politics, religion, and what role Islam might play in it.
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No. 14928
>>14926
I'm actually awaiting Sérotonine with great suspense as I'm curious what Houellebecq will have to tell three years later. I agree to the politics part, Soumission almost seemed visionary to me at this point. Also I loved the part about the islamic convert university president and former identitarian Robert Rédiger with his dissertation about Nietzsche and Guénon and his underaged wife wearing a hello kitty shirt, it was both hilarious and intellectually stimulating. Having read Guénon's The Crisis of the Modern World myself it wasn't too much of a big surprise to me in the context of Islam and traditionalism but still nice to see. I feel like this is one of the greatest contradictions of the young right-wing movements in europe: criticizing Islam for what they'd actually wish for themselves if they'd be sure about it and would actually still relate to traditional christianity instead of some vague and hollow idea of an ominous common identity and western culture. Either way I think the reaction will have the upper hand in the long run, may it come from civic nationalists or islamic traditionalists (or maybe from both? I liked the talk of the former secret police guy in Soumission about Ben Abbes as some kind of neo-roman head of an eurabic empire mostly based on european traditions but governed in an islamic way).
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No. 14965
Concerning Submission : It had the typical H. parts + the islam topic which I see as exaggeration. Islam in that form does not go d'accord with liberal ideas, that are rooted in western societies and I doubt people would just surrender and go all submissive about it, when an islamic politician would subvert the government like that. Sorry, but that is a rather dull conservative fantasy he develops there.
I'd question if islamic regime could go hand in hand with a neoliberal capital since strong morals would oppose the monetization of pretty much everything. Autocratic yes, but not coupled with strong morals that are enforced. But this is not a thread for socio-economic issues.
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No. 14973
>>14928
>I'm curious what Houellebecq will have to tell three years later.
Same here, though I have a feeling that for now he's more or less exhausted his topics and it might yet be a bit too early for him to release something really interesting.

I have to admit, Rediger's persuasion was at times scarily convincing.

Now I'll have to read Guénon too, and Péguy sounded interesting as well, albeit for other reasons.

>>14948
No offense, but I'd recommend you actually check out the book if you are interested in the logic that connects Islam to Europe

>>14965
>the islam topic which I see as exaggeration. Islam in that form does not go d'accord with liberal ideas, that are rooted in western societies
Well, it's fiction after all. There are many aspects about it that are unrealistic, but it does make you question how rooted these liberal ideas really are.
>>
No. 14976
>>14926
>>14928
>>14965
>>14973
The article by Houllebecq made me feel nothing but scorn for him, but it sounds like there is more of substance in his books. I'll check out Submission soon.

>>14948
You're engaging with the concept at a very shallow level. I haven't read Houllebecq yet, but if you care about the future of Europe there is something important to be engaged in with neo-reactionary politics, including the Islamic kind.
>>
No. 14986
>>14926
Are there still plans for an EC reading group? It seems like there is wide enough interest in Submission for many Ernsts to read it and discuss it in detail.
>>
No. 14987
>>14986
Well, at least us three germans have already read it and the belarussian as well. And even though I liked the book I don't plan on reading it again in the near future (especially as I only had it borrowed from a friend). But maybe someone who has the english version could photograph the most interesting passages of political speculation and we could discuss it in the news or history thread.
Generally I'd still be open for a reading group but I'd prefer something that has novelty to all of us.
>>
No. 15002
Years ago I read this article here explaining the formation of japanese suburbs
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269037679_Building_Suburbs_in_Japan_Continuous_unplanned_change_on_the_urban_fringe
It's a very interesting article for those interested in urbanism. Now I found the author's page and there's a lot more
https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=kzhQW1AAAAAJ&hl=en
It's mostly about urbanism in Japan and related issues.
>>
No. 15163
Trying to gather a virtual library. Looking for lists of relevant or worth reading philosophy books, alle authors of poetry worth reading, decent history books especially of roman empire and earlier, perhaps some autobiographies. Searching for all these books is possible but it'll waste dozens if not hundreds of hours, so if any Ernsts have decent book lists please share.
>>
No. 15164
>>15163
You can always wade through these charts by 4chon:
http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/sub

Or if you want you could check out something more classy check out sth like the Harvard Classics:
http://www.openculture.com/2014/03/the-harvard-classics-download-all-51-volumes-as-free-ebooks.html

Though I don't really see the point of building a big "virtual library", you can get almost anything you'd imagine off libgen and start reading any time you want. If you let all the files pile up it might only discourage you from reading (if that's what you want to do)
In any case you probably want to get Calibre to manage your ebooks: https://calibre-ebook.com

>decent history books especially of roman empire
The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon is the go-to, though it's super long but there apparently also exist multiple abridged versions (which I'll probably take advantage of personally when I get around to it)
>>
No. 15169
312 kB, 153 pages
I'd like to recommend Imre Madách's "The Tragedy of Man" wholeheartedly to all of you. It's the finest work of Hungarian literature.
Its depths are endless.
Full of contrast and power.
The work itself is in the vein of Faust and Paradise Lost somewhat, but it has it's own voice, structure and ideas.
Interesting how a "play" can be better and have more meaning if read instead of played.
>>
No. 15170
>>15164
>The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon is the go-to
Not really. It is very outdated. Besides that, Gibbon is more interested in the story than the history. A lot of things are portrayed somewhat incorrectly to make a moral point on empire.
>>
No. 15171
>>15164
Thanks I guess I'll look through that. I already use calibre to set up my books but I'm trying to download as many as possible into my e-reader since I'm going to not have internet and probably no computer in a few months.
>>
No. 15179 Kontra
>>15170
It's shocking how much less credit I initially gave you because your country ball is now a triangle. Even after remembering it's you on vacation there is a shadow of doubt that I can't get rid of.
Kontra because post not on topic.
>>
No. 15255
466 kB, 796 × 1167
I started reading Botchan on a whim today. It's a remarkably good novel. Or novella.
I think I might finish it in a day or two.

I think he is one of the better Japanese writers. His writings make Taisho-era Japan seem like a really interesting place.
Vibrant but cruel at the same time.

I especially like how he decides to portray financial hardships of his characters. That's relatively rare for a Japanese artist. It's usually the soul that has problems in a Japanese novel, not the wallet.
>>
No. 15280
>>15179
It's cool. I was a bit harsh on him. Made him sound like pseudohistory when he has a lot of things that aren't necessarily wrong. He just really suffers from being before the time of organised academic history that challenged ancient sources. Nowadays there are even works that theorise Caligula was sane, with his madness being included afterwards to vindicate the conspirators of his death. Gibbon is just stuck in the romantic mindset of his time and while using primary sources, fell int the common trap of not reading them critically. The Rise and Fall is impactful and important to historiography, but is very outdated in content and style.
>>
No. 15303
>>15280
This. If you want to read about the fall of Rome, The Fall of Rome: And the End of Civilization by Brian Ward-Perkins is a good modern book. It covers the actual history and archaeology, as well as the historical discussion about the fall of Rome.

A good book that puts Rome into a wider historical perspective is Peter Turchin's War and Peace and War, which is about the general phenomenon of social cohesion and collapse, but pays special attention to the rise and fall of Rome as a case study. It's a quick and easy read, but will drastically change how you think about history and society.
>>
No. 15340
>>15303
Can you comment a bit more on the Turchin book? I'm a bit put off from reading him since I read some article by him about the cycles of wealth distribution and he was more or less paraphrasing Marxist ideas (I don't mean this in a derogative sense) and touting that theory as something novel without once referencing Marx. I guess his work was more empirical and it's not unlikely that he came upon the ideas himself but it still felt somewhat disingenuous
>>
No. 15356
26 kB, 318 × 470
I'm two thirds of the way in, and it's unbearable.
It makes me feel stressed out. The main character is a naive, loud mouthed elitist, contrarian buffoon who only makes things worse for himself, and the supporting cast is just a bunch of morally depraved, mediocre country bumpkins who act like hyenas to one another and the main character, who is powerless against their cartel, but it tisn't even a cartel, because the bastards fight against one another too.

It probably makes me uncomfortable mainly because it's too realistic. It hits too close to home for some reason.
It's like I'm witnessing a train-crash in the making.
>>
No. 15362
>>15340
IIRC he does briefly mention Marx in his books, but I think he views the Marxist understanding of history as overly primitive and not particularly worth addressing. Granted, I haven't read Marx myself, and American education gives you virtually no understanding of him, so I don't know how close his ideas actually are to Marx.
This might actually be why he doesn't mention Marx - he lives in America, and is especially concerned about how his theories apply to our situation, and a great way to make people ignore you in American public discourse is to go around quoting Marx.

A significant part of Turchin's work is about the non-economic side of social cohesion, and this is where he diverges most from Marx (I assume). According to Turchin, there are two overlapping cycles affecting pre-industrial societies:

  1. The cycle of social cohesion (which he calls asabiya, following Ibn Khaldun). War, especially against meta-ethnically alien enemies (i.e. Romans vs. Gaulish barbarians, Christians vs. Muslims, Russian Christians vs. Tatar Muslim steppe barbarians) creates societies with strong social cohesion. Societies with weak cohesion will either become stronger, or be conquered by more socially cohesive ones.
Meta-ethnic frontiers serve to constantly charge a society's asabiya, both as a result of society uniting in the face of a terrifying enemy, and because of the relative equality forced upon the inhabitants of a warzone (equality is associated with high asabiya, inequality with low asabiya - more on that below). Once those frontiers vanish, asabiya gradually depletes until it virtually vanishes, leaving a region of permanently dysfunctional societies.

2. Secular cycles, which are based on Malthusian principles. Once an agrarian society puts all arable land under cultivation, it will naturally tend towards massive inequality. The new generations of peasants will, in large families, inherit increasingly smaller plots of land that are not economically viable, and to get through rough years they will take out loans from rich peasants and aristocrats with their land as collateral. Inevitably they default on their loans, their land is seized, and this works out until you have a small number of aristocratic land magnates and a huge landless proletariat, who drive down wages and thus make the rich even richer.
This causes the rich to have larger families, and spend more money in competitions of conspicuous consumption to compete for status with other elites. But by this point, the population and economy have stopped growing, so while the demands of elites are increasing, the supply of wealth that they feed off of is static.
Eventually, the elites hit their own para-Malthusian limit, and they start turning on each other in a desperate effort by each individual to maintain their wealth social standing. Once the elites divide into factions, civil war ensues, and it will continue in cycles until the resulting massacres, famine, and declining birth rates among nobles and commoners brings society back under its Malthusian limit. But as soon as that limit is reached again, the cycle begins anew.

Societies that are at the high end of the asabiya cycle can forestall the low end of the secular cycle, as the struggle against a terrifying meta-ethnic enemy encourages prosocial attitudes among elites, and keeps population below the Malthusian limits, at least on the frontier. Foreign conquest also forestalls secular crisis, as surplus population can often move into the conquered territory, and elites are given an outlet for ambition and greed. But secular cycles get worse at the low end of the asabiya cycle, because the background level of social cohesion is already dangerously low. Western Rome, in particular, fell because its success created an asabiya black hole outside of a few far-flung frontier regions (there's a reason why so many late emperors came from the Balkans). Small groups of high-asabiya barbarians could waltz through lands made up of huge latifundia, owned by greedy antisocial elites and worked by miserable peasants. Constantinople was able to last longer as it was located close to the limits of civilization in the Balkans, and had to contend with a very powerful and rather alien Persian empire.
>>
No. 15364
>>15362
I think there are some rough edges that need to be straightened out - he singles out southern Italy as an example of what has been a natural asabiya black hole since the days of the Roman Empire, but it went through the same period of Islamic conquest and Christian reconquest as Spain, and faced at least as much danger from Muslim pirates as northern Europe did from vikings, which is his explanation for high asabiya in England and France. I think foreign vs. native elite orientation is an important part of the equation, to explain why places like Latin America and southern Italy both became such shitholes. However, I'm convinced of the basic validity of the model as applied to agrarian societies.

I'm more skeptical of how he analyzes industrial societies - he's too eager to conclude that, underlyingly, the processes are all the same as those faced in agrarian societies. A lot of the phenomena are the same, but in societies with permanent exponential growth, the elite overproduction which used to be the main cause of social unrest and civil war is no longer guaranteed. You can see fierce competition for limited government posts and other culturally prestigious jobs, but in our society those are only secondary elites who exist as a world apart from the billionaires who tend to hold the real power.
>>
No. 15477
I guess I should get back to reading. I don't know where to start, what should I tell before I get any recommendations?
>>
No. 15478
>>15477
Well if you have never read for pleasure before, and don't mind humour.
Then Hitch Hickers Guide to the Galaxy, turned me on to reading, if you are too jaded or old for this read Bravo Two One Zero, if you enjoy this there are lots of books in a similar theme.
Otherwise I enjoy historical biographies, which are far and few between, and detective novels.
>>
No. 15485
Reading "Muistikuvia, mielikuvia" by Kalevi Sorsa.

Roughly translated as "Recollections, mental images". No idea if the book is available in English. The author was the longest standing Finnish prime minister, in office for nearly 10 years during the 70's and 80's. Pretty much a life's work in politics otherwise. He tells about seemingly random tidbits from his life and tries to set the context around them so that the reader can really understand what's going on. Stories feature all sorts of Finnish, European and Soviet politicians and other regular people and places as well. Written by a politician mostly about politicans it's very little about politics. So far a light and enjoyable book.

While I'm at it I'm gonna ask your opinions on a(freely translated) quote from him in 1984:

"Parlamentary democracy in a information society is getting a challenger from 'infocracy', a information authority. It seems to feature a great sense of un-intelligence, it avoids of pondering general and societal issues, it is turning political issues into into issues of character and completely lacks of critique towards its own actions. The increasingly self-critiquing party system owes a question to the rising might of the public word; when are you going to turn the investigative gaze upon yourself? Critical, but also objective public word is a essential part of democracy. If it decays - whether from commercial or political is irrelevant - then the core of democracy is damaged. It is time for the growing power of fourth governmental power to internalize that which the worker's party knew a hundred years ago: no power without responsibility."

I'm not sure if the term public word is sensical to non-finns so I'll just clarify that it's supposed to refer to the media. In any case, how do you think we've done so far? It's been more than 30 years from that quote so a time for reflection shouldn't be misplaced.
>>
No. 15488
>>15477
Walk into a bookshop or browse around on the internet, I've gotten far more interesting reads from sheer serendipity than recommendations.

The real trick to getting into reading is setting up a routine time to read such as when using public transport or when you've got clothes in the washing machine. Even having a book near the toilet can work for something like Seneca's letters that has short-ish sections you can pick at while you poo.

>>15485
Personally I'd take whatever a politician says about the media gaze with a grain ocean of salt. I'd bet the cheeky git used sound-bites and other media trickery plenty of times himself in his career. Harumph!

Coming from a country where the press long descended from the gutter into the sewer there is a problem but, you either have monkey business or you turn the clock back to the obtuse political reporting of the 1950s. The cure is always worse than the disease in this case - open political journalism can't happen with a rigid rulebook.
>>
No. 15492
3,0 MB, 2610 × 3557
I think I'm too stupid to appreciate literature. What if I only ever read Dostoevsky to impress other people? I will never be a deep thinker like the wise schizoid Kazakh or the Australian historian. I am just a dilettante. I should be executed. I should have the Bill of Rights carved into my liver. I will never really appreciate French romanticism.
>>
No. 15493
>>15362
>>15364
Thanks for the lengthy write-up. I'm afraid I don't have much to say as the principles you describe all sound very logical but not particularly novel except for the nomenclature he uses. I'm having a hard time to put it into proper words, so I'll take my chances at looking ignorant, but his data-based approach seems rather dubious to me. With more qualitative theories you are always aware that you need to be critical, but invoking mathematics and data can easily obfuscate the underlying assumptions, problems, manipulation, etc. of the data. It's much harder to criticize but not necessarily more sound than a qualitative approach.

I guess it's not such a problem in the case of Turchin, as he seems to be a thorough scholar, but I wouldn't put any more trust in what his models predict than in an educated guess.
>>
No. 15496
>>15492
I was disagreeing with you until
> I should have the Bill of Rights carved into my liver.
I cannot see a problem with this
>>
No. 15497
>>15492
You can dislike even genuinely good pieces of literature without being a plebeian - sometimes people just have different tastes. And oftentimes, if something seems boring or shallow, it's actually just boring or shallow. The Great Gatsby is a terrible book in all respects. It's taught in every school because stupid people with shit taste elevate mediocrity to the level of genius, and then enshrine it for future generations of morons to worship.

Other people's opinions are ultimately meaningless to your own judgment and experience. That includes the established consensus on the literary canon. You should never read something that you don't enjoy. If you don't like French Romanticism, who cares. Read mid-late 20th century California science fiction instead. PKD has as much of importance to say about the human condition, and Jack Vance will inspire emotions as profound (and be much more enjoyable to read). And if you don't like that, then just keep looking until you find something you do enjoy reading, and don't make yourself feel stupid for putting aside anything.
>>
No. 15507
>>15492
You have to reflect on literature just like any other art. I haven't read many classic pieces of German literature either and I can tell you that some of the classics are rather bland in that they symbolize ideas whereas modern/postmodern literature reflects on literature itself and so forth.
With reflecting I also mean reading second hand analysis to get hold of how one can approach literature in order to understand. I liked (and still like) to read novels and I just changed my minor to literature in order to learn to approach literature. This has to be separated from how you feel about literature and your surface impressions. The reflection on art of any kind has to be learned somehow. Modern or contemporary art, that is not outright political at first sight will take you to think and reflect in order to form a guess on what it is and what it might "say". Literature is also about pattern/structure recognition of a text e.g.

You might want to read Avant-garde and Kitsch by Clement Greenberg. It's kind of Adorno "le cultural industry" tier in that it is written under the impression of facist and totalitarian regimes and their important element of the mass. Yet it can give you an idea between low brow and high brow art and the thinking about it, which is the more important thing to recognize I think.

There also exist a wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-Garde_and_Kitsch
>>
No. 15519
>>15497
Honestly I thought Dick and Heinlein already were considered among the great writers.
>>
No. 15520
>>15519
They are considered great sci-fi writers. I'd wager there is hardly any academic interest in their works.
>>
No. 15527
>>15520
Why wouldn't there be? Especially with Heinlein.
>>
No. 15529
>>15519
>>15520
>>15527
Heinlein not so much - he has a relatively large and dedicated fanbase, but there isn't much serious intellectual respect for him.
Meanwhile, I've seen boxed editions of PKD as part of "Great Writers" sets that have nothing to do with SF, and I've read somewhere that even during his life he was cited respectfully by intellectuals in Europe.
>>
No. 15530
>>15529
Dick is one of those writers afaik who actually used deeper, more esoteric methods to compile his stores, which I'd say goes beyond 99% of sci-fi writers.
>>
No. 15531 Kontra
>>15527
>Why wouldn't there be? Especially with Heinlein.
Academic literature nerds, and the people who write for them, are traditionally biased against science fiction. The author of The Handmaid's Tale has written works that are obviously science fiction, and would be regarded as such by any neutral observer, yet she insists that her works aren't SF because "there aren't alien tentacle monsters" in them.

It started with SF being restricted to pulp magazines and other low-status publishing routes, and back then the vast majority of SF probably was just mindless schlock (although good writers were writing in pulp from the beginning). But even after WW2, when SF was in a golden age with better writers than mainstream fiction, that bigotry persisted.

And this is why I don't think you should care about the mainstream opinion on high literature. The people who decide what is and isn't worthwhile literature are part of a circlejerk of narrow-minded middle-brows, devoid of curiosity or piercing intellect, and full of petty prejudice. This is a great take-down of one of modern-day "serious" American literature's most famous icons, and the culture that produced him:
http://exiledonline.com/jonathan-franzen-will-rim-bobos-for-book-of-the-month-fame

You already know how vapid and shallow most people, including most "smart" people, are. Well, fame and reputation are entirely decided by those people, which is why you shouldn't put much stock in either.
>>
No. 15532
>>15530
He used the Yijing to write Man in the High Castle, and towards the end of his life he thought he was directly touched by the divine and had important revelations to share. But for most of his career, the esoteric influences were mainly drugs. He was just a good writer and intellect, with enough neuroticism and alienation to write about things from an interesting perspective.

>which I'd say goes beyond 99% of sci-fi writers.
You need to read more SF. At least in America, it tended to attract the best and brightest minds, who were motivated by artistic zeal rather than shallow literary pretensions and social climbing. SF writers were paid barely anything per book or story, which is why so many of them have oeuvres of several dozen novels, and many more short stories. This led to a lack of polish in many of their works, but also the exploration of many different ideas and themes. Even the occasional narrative duds have enough redeeming qualities to be worth reading.

California in the 60s and 70s, especially the Bay Area, was a literary scene to rival any before or since. Even a writer like Jack Vance, who on the surface seems to be purely in the business of entertaining adventure fiction, has more to say about the human condition than most mainstream writers who wrote in the same period.
>>
No. 15533
>>15531
I mean honestly a lot of stuff about writing and art was I think totally destroyed throughout the post-war period. It ranges from uninspired drivel like Keruoac to outright trash like Ginsburg and Warhol so far as I'm concerned. Well, actually in that particular case I guess what I really mean was that the Beat generation were shit. For all the many serious glaring defects of boomers, at least that generation gave us a lot of great stuff in music, and some good writing or writing that I enjoy. But I also think that to truly be anything like an "intellectual" or an artist of real merit or a writer, you have to be both your own person as well as a sort of influence on the works of others, which is biased because a)not everyone influenced by them is smart, nor is it indicative of something not being shit, and b)it means that you cannot truly appreciate them or their impact until usually after they're gone, and I fucking hate that with a passion because 9 times out of 10 it means some random person possibly from a certain tribe buying up the "IP rights" that they had fuckall hand in producing while the creator probably struggled and was quite poor all their lives. But then again, I don't think any directly sponsored art or shilling is often good, in fact I don't even think psyops are very good when it's just some uninspired and contrived set piece made by a bunch of bureaucrats. I think that was a major reason modern art got poisoned too.

In terms of an author like Dick or Heinlein, much of a vast swath of other work is either directly or indirectly influenced by them. There is some work for example space operas such as IMO Star Wars the original trilogy which are kind of going to end up being called something as a classic, the loud music of today being the refined tastes of tomorrow like Jazz because I guess raiding your grandpa's closet is also often the hipster mark of sophistication and taste.

Or like Giger. Here's another person who I think any intelligent critic and artistically literate person would mention, not simply out of some pretense of aesthetic appreciation but also for his technique--and I'm not even an artist (or definitely not a good one). And while some of it may indeed be schlocky for more reasons than one, I think that in general SF or fantasy and fiction in general provides one of those few outlets for actual artists, just as much as I think things like vidya and film soundtracks provide that for musicians. This is part of why I don't even know what's on anymore let alone listen to music, because you have some fucking idiot like Kanye up there and really it ends up either being the underground or things like soundtracks that wind up being truly inspired anyway.

Take this for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8qp992Dssk
Now, I personally think that the whole art style in general is pretty intentionally and self knowinglyshit, with 40K being almost like a pulpy self effacement of both fantasy and scifi, but just listen to this track. It doesn't even matter that the lyrics are some fake bastardized pig Latin. That is the kind of music that I would say has moved me. I would likewise say that the genre does, in general, provide ample room for all manner of Greatness.

And by that I mean, true greatness, not the kind of crap that can be bought and sold, the type of thing that is just priceless, the sort of let us say, ephemeral skeletal framework upon which to hang that greatness, the wire and the mesh and the clay to be guided by expert hands, the rough hewn ashlar. Art should I think be uplifting, it should be moving, it should inspire a man to greater personal heights, and a society to pause its breath, and this has been an area in which religion had formerly played the chief role throughout Europe. Everything they did, from the frescoes to triptychs, grand operatic movements and symphonies, stand glass and architecture, I would go so far as saying that, in a real sense, scifi sort of helps play that kind of a role in a secular society, sadly for men's low morals as well as their arts.

Now let us compare such things to corporate "art". You know what we get? Capeshit, manufactured pop made by lip syncers who were molested by Dan Snyder, and thoroughly uninspired actual schlock being peddled by corpos to mediocre intellects who want an excuse to gossip with their girlfriends but want the additional vanity of doing it over "literature" as opposed to feeling trashy because it isn't over alcoholic drinks (not that I can condemn you that impulse mind you, if anything I would rather we set the standard towards discussing such things instead of booze and capeshit).

Although I suppose to their credit, I have seen a few things I actually thought were surprisingly good or at least decent in spite of being say XMEN or Batman, which I suppose would be along the lines of the entire argument about scifi. Namely, that yes, it is full of lots of actual schlock at best, but what I see is not even merely a pool of inspiration for the arts, but for technology as well, and the often dire warnings about it.
>>
No. 15535
>>15532
> has more to say about the human condition than most mainstream writers who wrote in the same period.
Actually yeah, and that. That pretty much says it all. What are some people you would consider to be truly great writers from this period? When you think to mention some good writing or literature, or the field of writing in general, particularly of a more timeless sense, what do you think to mention?

Writing I feel a bit easier commenting upon than art, and let me tell you, On The Road is pure schlock, and yet that is often held up as if it were some great American literary classic. Again let me tell you, that it isn't, that it is not just shit because it doesn't say much about anything, but from the point of technique as well as content. It is a "book" that basically consists of some guy who wrote a lot of drivel while on speed and then tried to edit it. I have no idea why so many people think fondly of it, or of the movie adaptation which frankly is one of the few instances in which the movie was better than the book Requiem for a Dream being another, holy hell try to read that book. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is an example of an "acclaimed" film adaptation that was in reality pretty terrible and didn't accurately represent it at all, but hey nothing will ever be worse than that defilement that was World War Z.

If you've ever actually written on speed it is easy to note these things, which also I think (sadly) perhaps is true the other way, in that certain mind altering drugs can really help you to appreciate certain works of art more, one of which is most definitely opium. It had become clear to me that a great deal of 19th century poetry and writing was not some mere convention but rather the direct result of smoking opium or taking Laudanum, and frankly the world was subsequently better for it.
>>
No. 15539 Kontra
>>15535
Actually that's another point. How to deal with getting your own anxiety about writing without drinking yourself into an early grave. Stuff written while drunk is often shite anyway.
>>
No. 15541
>>15535
My favorite authors by far are PKD and Jack Vance. You can find collected works of them on torrent sites relatively easily. For PKD, I suggest starting with collections of his short stories, which I think are his best work. He had a really big problem with lack of editing and drug-addled stream of consciousness writing, and his novels can be hit or miss, but those problems don't really pop up in his short stories. Do make sure to read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, though.

Vance also has a lot of good short stories, but he really shines in his novels, especially his multi-book cycles. His main thing was speculative anthropology, explored in most of his SF via a shared setting. It's not realistic, insofar as the technology is barely more advanced than 1970s America except for FTL space travel, but the people and the places described in it feel very real, much moreso than a lot of mainstream fiction set in the real world. Vance had an anthropologist's eye for our species, and portrays humans and their cultures with a refreshing stark honesty. I suggest starting with the Demon Prince's series; also check out the Durdane Trilogy, and the Planet of Adventure series. His best stand-alone book is Emphyrio. His Dying Earth fantasy series is great reading too, and if you don't like the first book in it, you can jump straight to the first Cugel book, Eyes of the Overworld.

The fact is, PKD and Vance wrote so much that I'm still working my way through their bodies of work, and I haven't had the time to thoroughly explore other SF authors. However, from what little I've read by them and about them (from people whose taste I respect), Ursula LeGuin, Harlan Ellison, and Poul Anderson are also worth checking out. I have mixed feelings on Dune. The first book at least is worth checking out. I'm not a fan of hard SF (I don't think it's possible to paint a realistic portrayal of the distant future considering how much unforeseeable technology will change it), but you should try reading a bit of Clarke and Asimov to see if you like them.

Don't bother with Heinlein. He had a lot of influence, but not for the right reasons. The Starship Troopers movie is a satire of the weirdo hyper-militarist vision he had for society.

>Writing I feel a bit easier commenting upon than art, and let me tell you, On The Road is pure schlock
I haven't read any of Cormac McCarthy's stuff, but I've only heard bad things about it from people I respect. The mere fact that he's respected by America's current literary establishment is damning enough.

If you want a better version of McCarthy, try Charles Portis. He's the guy who wrote the book that the True Grit movies are based on, but he also wrote a lot of other insightful books that explore American society.

VS Naipaul is a rare case of a universally renowned author living up to the hype. I've only read his non-fiction, but his novels are supposed to be just as good. I can certainly vouch for his prose style and intellect. He was undoubtedly the greatest living writer in the English language before he died a few months ago.

>Take this for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8qp992Dssk
I'm not a fan of DoW2's soundtrack (DoW1 had great music though), but I get what you're saying about video game soundtracks. Japanese video game composers in particular tend to be really damn good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFRhYuB93qk
Composed by Uematsu, arranged properly for a modern orchestra and choir by Masayoshi Soken, the guy who does the rest of FF14's music (which is really fucking good). I probably like it better than any other classical music composed after the Baroque period.
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No. 15542 Kontra
>>15539
A bunch of great SF was written on drugs (in particular, virtually everything PKD wrote). Drugs, at least stimulants, can enable good writers, but if the writer is a talentless hack, it'll just lead to a large output of mindless drivel.
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No. 15544
>>15535
>What are some people you would consider to be truly great writers from this period?
Nabokov, Salinger, Beckett e.g.

I undestand your dislike for the Beats from a literary perspective but I don't think they ever aspired to be great in that regard. As I understand it, the beats were all about capturing the moment and their hippie lifestyle so there is definitely something self-centered about it. I don't particularly enjoy it myself either but I'd say there is merit to it in the regard that it can inspire people to travel and enjoy the moment (or maybe just yearn for this countercultural Dream America where this was still somehow possible)
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No. 15553
>>15539
>How to deal with getting your own anxiety about writing 
What do you mean with anxiety about writing? Like, anxiety about starting to write, so to say the fear of the empty paper? Or rather anxiety in terms of not knowing if what you're writing has any literary merit? If it's the latter, the only solution is to go out into the world and show people what you're writing. I might imagine it's hard to do so without knowing the right people and even more so it's probably in the US. But if you go out and write people mails with your texts in it, you'll usually get answers, praise, criticism and approval. Doing so already requires a certain amount of courage because you're giving your inmost reflections and thoughts in form of prose to people you barely know. But that's a part of writing (if you're not only writing for yourself), finding pleasure and peace in making yourself an exhibit. Literature does live from the continuosly re-assured scandal of personality. One's got to embrace it instead of worrying about what people might think of you after reading what you've written down.
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No. 15566
>>15544
I think the Beats found a form to catch the beat feel. You cannot enjoy that or enjoy that. That's a matter of personal opinion and has nothing to do with reflection on that literature in itself. I read Kerouac and I put the book away or read fast thru it at least. Burroughs as well.

To say modern art and literature is mindless drivel just shows how less one has dealt with it anyway. Often times these things reflect the human condition and condition of art on a higher level than other products which are in the face style about what they want to say, which can be rather plump. This might not be the case with PKD. I haven't read him, sadly. But I read J.G. Ballard and listened to some audiobooks and his earlier ones have that riddle-character. The later ones aren't bad either but you can tell the issue of security is large and it's not exactly sci-fi anymore, but I admire his love for suburbs and non-places which carry a certain atmosphere. Horrors of civilization underneath.
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No. 15593
So I finished Das Nibelungenlied today
It was interesting to read since it's so old that it felt very distant and different from the more modern literature because I didn't particularly empathize with any of the characters and didn't try to relate it to anything practical
This was also emphasized by the very repetitive AABB rhyme pattern and lots of common words and rhymes that were repeated many many times
So it wasn't particularly exciting except for mabye the last third when every chapter caption started with "How ... got slaughtered". I guess that was rather brutal. But still it was rather slow and every character made grand moral speeches before killing or getting killed until everybody was finally dead. And that was the end.
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No. 15611
>>15593
So you don't share my view that it's the second coming of Christ in verse form.
>>
No. 15620
>>15611
>So you don't share my view that it's the second coming of Christ in verse form.
I think you'll have to elaborate this
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No. 15621
>>15620
I thought the AABB scheme gave it a nice rhythm, and I found Siegried's heroism deeply moving while reading it.
It's just a really passionate drama for me, and I love it with all my heart.
>>
No. 15642
So I read Nikolai Leskov's Lady MacBeth of the Mtsensk District.
It's a very fine Russian short story. I really like how the female protagonist gets braver and braver as she commits graver and graver sins against life.
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No. 15660
194 kB, 1251 × 938
After a year or so of reading it on and off with some long breaks I finally finished The Brothers Karamazov today
I was looking forward to reading it for quite a while and I'm thrilled that it turned out such an enjoyable and moving read.
It amazes me how Dostoyevsky could churn out such long works with so many intricate descriptions and details and still manage to be so easily readable.

Now I just want to finish the last chapters of Paradise Lost in the next days, which I had also put on hiatus for a long time, and I'll be quite satisfied with this year literature-wise. For next year I'll try to compile a list of books that I absolutely want to read beforehand to keep myself motivated.

>>15621
I see, well I can't say I was particularly moved by it, but I still really enjoyed reading it.
By the way it was actually due to a post of you that I was enticed to pick it up, so thank you for the (indirect) recommendation.
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No. 15681
>>15660
Well, it's entirely possible that I raved too much about how good and touching it is.
It just resonated with me completely. Though I'd say it's completely normal that a tale of heroism and revenge resonates well with a teenager. Time will tell if it stays close to my heart.
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No. 15813
1,1 MB, 929 × 819
1,0 MB, 925 × 821
338 kB, 104 pages
So I finished Paradise Lost yesterday. With it's grandiloquent language and at such length, it has to be the hardest and most impressive thing I ever read in English. It flowed really well but still or rather because of that I'd sometimes get lost in the text, but the prose summaries at the beginning of each chapter really helped.

I also read the short Tao te ching which was rather frustrating. I feel like a lot was lost in translation, maybe a different translation might be more interesting though I'm not particularly intrigues by it.

Another thing I finished was Moldbug's Open Letter which was enjoyable but somewhat long-winded as I was already acquainted with Patchwork

Also read the related PDF with some texts on Blockchain which were all quite good. The first one is a very short fictionalized account in form of some future interview logs with convicted cybercriminals.
Second text is by Nick Land basically valorizing Bitcoin as the panacea for all the world's problems. It's a fun read but I'm not sure I can agree with his idea of treating capital and blockchain as some sort of Cthulhian entities.
Last essay by Edmund Berger was quite interesting but not an easy read. He invokes various thinkers, philosophers and economists from Marx through Marcuse, Deleuze, Kondratiev and others to the aforementioned Nick Land and Moldbug, synthesizing their ideas on art, philosophy, economics and politics to critically discuss the merits of the blockchain specifically. Particularly interesting was the part where he discusses the different avant-garde socialist schools of though in the USSR which I've never heard of before.

Pics related is my tentative reading list for 2019, if anybody wants to read and discuss some book from there together or recommend me some other books, I would be delighted.

Anyhow, I wish everybody a great start into the new year!
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No. 15815
50 kB, 694 × 745
>>15813
How did you like No Longer Human?
I found it to be a gripping tale. So gripping that I've read it twice actually.

Also, does Kokoro have an "oppressive" atmosphere?
I found Botchan to be a really stressing work to read. Though The Gate was much more relatable and less heavy handed.
Soseki's stuff just sort of feels "uncomfortable" to read because of it's weirdly realistic portrayal of how humans act.
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No. 15824
>>15813
Is there anything of intellectual worth in Moldbug? I've recently been turning towards paleoconservative/neo-reactionary views in some areas, but I can't take seriously someone who calls themselves Mencius Moldbug and looks like a 600-pound fedora-tipper who lost his hat.
>>
No. 15825
>>15813
I would highly recommend Peter Turchin's War and Peace and War as an introduction to a more grounded interpretation of the rise and fall of civilizations. It always felt to me like Spengler and other older thinkers on the topic discussed it in too subjective a manner. I don't think Turchin's work is the end-all-be-all on the subject, but I think it's a necessary starting point that presents a clear and empirically-grounded theory (and in a short and very readable book) which can serve as an alternative or adjunct to more subjective theories like that of Spengler.
>>
No. 15828
>>15824
>paleoconservative/neo-reactionary
>and looks like a 600-pound fedora-tipper who lost his hat.
I'm really not entirely sure what you expected.
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No. 15871
>>15815
>How did you like No Longer Human?
>Also, does Kokoro have an "oppressive" atmosphere?
I'll let you know once I actually read them, as that's my to-read list for this year :P

>>15824
Well, if you're interested in neo-reaction, he's definitely the man to read. There are some interesting ideas in there, e.g. that conservatives are the progressives of yesteryear, that democratic governments are incentivized to create problems so they can keep their jobs and give jobs to their friends or the idea of the "Cathedral" as a decentralized progressive university-media-government complex. I'd say his analysis of history is pretty interesting, he covers a bit of American and WW2 Germany history and gives a lot of references to different primary sources. But his proposed solution of neocameralism/patchwork is very far out: he suggests to split countries up into small units to be governed like corporations. Now you'll probably have some immediate reasons to think why that would be a bad idea, but that gets you thinking at least. I guess you're also somewhat right about the fedora-tipping as he is very atheistic and actually one of his main criticisms of progressivism is that it's basically a secular strain of Christianity, as it's also often well intentioned but not effective.
His prose style is rather provocative which I personally enjoy but I can see how people might be annoyed by it. Anyways I'm not sure if I summarized it that well but you could just check out the first chapter of the "letter" and see if it's interesting for you: https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2008/04/open-letter-to-open-minded-progressives/

>>15825
Thanks for the recommendation, I guess it makes sense to read it even if I'm all for subjective accounts.
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No. 15874
364 kB, 24 pages
>>15813
Edmund Berger also wrote an interesting text about the history of hyperstition

Faserland is a good read, I enjoyed it very much. Baudelaire is good as well, a classic in modern aesthetics.
As for Luhmann, I have a lecturer who went to his seminars, he said you don't need an introduction to Luhmann, they aren't good. Just start with any text he said, as Luhmann will roll up is theory in all of them. Not sure if this is true, he does roll up is theory in one of his Essays but this didn't help me a lot.

Luhmanns book Vertrauen from 1968 is known as key to his thinking. I wanted to read it over the winter holidays but I won't make it because of other tasks that need to be done first. It's a short read, about 120 pages only.
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No. 15876
>>15871
Oh shit I'm sorry.
Hamlet is on my reading list too for this year. Will you be reading it in English?
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No. 15890
>>15871
>There are some interesting ideas in there, e.g. that conservatives are the progressives of yesteryear, that democratic governments are incentivized to create problems so they can keep their jobs and give jobs to their friends or the idea of the "Cathedral" as a decentralized progressive university-media-government complex. I'd say his analysis of history is pretty interesting, he covers a bit of American and WW2 Germany history and gives a lot of references to different primary sources. But his proposed solution of neocameralism/patchwork is very far out: he suggests to split countries up into small units to be governed like corporations. Now you'll probably have some immediate reasons to think why that would be a bad idea, but that gets you thinking at least.

I don't really find any of those ideas interesting. I'm interested in neo-reaction insofar as I think that leftism as a whole is a failed enterprise, and that the primary reason for this is that it ignores fundamental strictures of reality and human nature - which, I think, is a fundamental position that puts me more in camp with conservatives.

But I still find most reactionaries no more insightful than I did as an idealistic leftist. I've been hearing some form of "conservatives are the new progressives" on Fox News and conservative talk radio for years (impossible to escape this when your entire family is hardcore conservative). Of course democratic governments have systemic problems - but what's the alternative? The strawman in my head of reactionaries is people who just want kings and an empowered hereditary aristocracy, as a kneejerk reaction against a world they don't like.

I've found that this strawman generally holds true. For more advanced reactionaries, there's a nihilism mixed in with the bitterness that I can almost understand, but Nick Land has gotten to the point where he wishes for humanity to be replaced by an unthinking AI god that is superior simply because of its insane processing power in comparison to us. There's a logic to it, but only if you've completely given up hope in the human project, which, I think, is the heart of the problem with reactionaries - they can't, or won't, entertain the idea that the future can be better, and so retreat into the past or nihilism.

I suppose that's inherent in the term "reactionary", so I'll drop the term. What I want is a conservative (or whatever you call it) philosophy, that grounds itself firmly in reality and proven social and political systems, but also has a vision for the construction of a better world. There's a strain of conservatism in France (supposedly this is a strain with a history across Europe, but I need to do more reading into it) that looks at society as an organism, and I think this is the perfect metaphor to counter neoliberals and libertarians on the one hand, and postmodern leftists on the other. A cell that forgets it's part of an organism and serves only its own needs is literally a cancer; a cell that's cut off from its place in the body is just dead.

I just want to see this organic view of society laid out comprehensively in a form meant for mass propagation in the modern era, and a movement built behind it.

>I guess it makes sense to read it even if I'm all for subjective accounts.
My main problem with social science and political philosophy, on both sides of the aisle, is that people think too much without any grounding. They approach it like Platonists approached metaphysics, thinking that, because they're smart, they can simply think really hard about it and come out with a right answer.

Well, fundamentalist Muslims are right on metaphysics, and Platonists were wrong - it's a question that human beings are fundamentally incapable of answering on their own. Likewise with systems as ridiculously chaotic and complex as human societies - intuition can only take you so far, although in this case knowledge isn't as hopeless as it is with metaphysics. From what I know of Spengler and others, they sound right about a lot of things, but ultimately they're just talking out of their asses. This is theoretically a scientific question - history actually happened, and societies actually exist, with real dynamics that can be observed, studied, and often quantified. What we should do with that knowledge of how societies work is where philosophy enters the equation, but a philosophy about what to do with society that isn't grounded in the science of how societies work is as hopeless (and dangerous) as a philosophy of life that isn't grounded in biological science (like anti-vaxxers or eugenic race "realists").
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No. 15891
>>15876
I would strongly suggest reading it in any language but English. Without at least a full course in Shakespeare studies, you'll miss have of the jokes and nuance - or at least, you'll be forced to interrupt the narrative flow to read hundreds of footnotes that explain the jokes and nuance to you.

Nobody speaks English today like they did in 1600, and so nobody can properly experience Shakespeare as he was in his own time. The closest you'll get, however, are well-regarded translations that by necessity have to adapt the language into a more accessible modern form.
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No. 15892 Kontra
>>15891
that can be said about any old literature
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No. 15893
>>15890
You do realize that basically what you want is Catholicism, right? I think you've just made the mistake of looking for it in the secular world. I am also not sure what you mean by "leftism is a failed enterprise" which given that your whole family is hardcore Conservative/right wing I somehow doubt you have any idea what "leftism" even means. This is doubly true if you're going to cite something so blatantly idiotic and transparently propaganda as Fox. I take RT more seriously than Fox. Moreover you will notice the sheer hypocrisy of those kinds of people, who really have no interest in things like morality and purely seem to want to construct a social system that benefits only them, and in engaging in blatant dishonesty when it serves their interests. This includes something like the family unit or anything else that they would happily obliterate if it served their corporate masters, which it usually does.

Seriously dude stop looking at politics for the answer to problems in the human condition, or really as an answer to anything, especially American politics.

If you really want to actually talk about things like traditionalism and facing certain human realities then regardless of what you may think about doctrine and dogma with angels and some of the weird magical bullshit like third degree Relics etc, then it would be more likely something like Catholicism. Moreover you shouldn't be looking to human institutions to begin with, but if you do, you should look at things like the Papist institution which is largely unbothered by whatever idiotic new social fad. This is not at all true of left or right wing politics, which explicitly roots itself in the fad and hence shortsighted temporal folly that every generation engages in while seemingly learning nothing.
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No. 15898
40 kB, 500 × 500
>>15890
>I think this is the perfect metaphor to counter neoliberals and libertarians on the one hand
All I would say in response is that the state of nature predates society, so individuals are not inherently tied to the social contract/state, and therefore have no obligation to act in support of it. Also, doesn't the organism metaphor also mean that the state or society which forces cells to act in its image is a virus? Plus, doing the same thing (old ways of governing) and hoping for a new result is generally not a great idea to begin with.
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No. 15903
>>15898
This also pretty much hits the nail on the head because basically each thing outside the scope of say 250 people is a societal construct. Each one of these things I view as a bit more like an egregore, that is at best some communal animating spiritual parasite sapping peoples souls dry for it's own benefit, like say a corporation or government or nation state.

That is actually the truthful reason of why race itself is a social construct, because you don't actually tend to give a shit outside your broad tribal group and the only way to get people to behave in this manner is outright manipulating and hijacking those actual naturally hardwired instincts. It is why you have such things as "Uncle Sam" or "Fatherland" or "Rodina" or "Big Brother" because these people are all complete strangers who may in fact mean you direct harm or exploitation, and in many circumstances most definitely do. This is also why something such as nationalism is inherently stupid. It's the same shit as say globalism, just slightly scaled down. You may share certain cultural motifs but that's just about it. That is also why religion serves as the glue that binds, and perhaps more strongly a shared language, which still splinters into hundreds of local dialects anyway each of which may become their own totally separate languages given time.

The only actual truly natural thing is the clan, and beyond that is the tribe. We have not yet actually evolved beyond it biologically. It is why each person has on average 250 social contacts, or in this shitty age social network friends. That is the basic default unit of "tribe" which is basically nothing more than a localized confederation of families.

You can ideologically hijack that to create a social construct but all that is is some fake organism built out of a memetic virus. In many cases, such as our old "traditional values" that was a hereditary monarchy, in which the tribe itself merely hijacked all the others through one shared extended family of royalty. They were one broad bickering family who somehow convinced all these idiotic peasants to fight and die for them and slave away sacrificing their own, how to put it, natural concerns, in favor of the natural concerns of a monarch family. And in many cases, how did that person get there? By slaying and exploiting others.

This is how that game works and until you realize that you will always be a slave to others and you will always be inadvertently putting your own natural concerns behind those of another, like intraspecies parasitism.

When people like to talk about things like the Jews or "Illuminati" or whoever, those are just people that already figured this out. The problem with certain people is they still put the interests of some arbitrary group ahead of their own. If you do not put your own family first then you are not a man, and you are not a mother. It is part of why the whinging of some fuckwits about Jews is totally irrelevant to me. Why should I care if a member of another background is put into power? It is the same to me as saying we have come to restore the crowns of Europe. Those are no different than the rich Jews who are no different than the current Capitalist elite families. This is not doctrinal--this is a natural fact.

The reason why parts of the left are so fucking useless is because they eat the shit of pure ideology to such an extent that apparently they can be convinced male and female no longer exist. These are hard indisputable facts. The problem is then you have other people coming to you with some other cultish nonsense.

Self sacrifice is a lie. You should only sacrifice for your own family. The Italian mafia had also figured out this and a few of the other actual facts and darker truths some came to claim the so called Illuminati being in possession of, but in truth Muhammed knew this as well. It is the central truth of the family man and a reproducing biological organism. There are no such things as actual friends beyond this scope from a societal point of view. Do you think someone like George Bush is your friend? Of course not. These people have their own families. It is what a dynasty is, which is the one and only time a man should sacrifice himself: for his wife and offspring. All other nonsense, like the so called "manly man" of a soldier is in fact a beta. What else do you call a man who has been convinced to sacrifice his own relationships and possibly his own life to further the interests of another family? And it is the same truth today of the American fatnik soldier or Russian bottle sitters as it was when feudal lords pitched two masses of dirty peasants against each other, like it was no more than a game of chess.

And lastly, that the functions of state and the "organs of state" are merely contrivances by those exact same powers and principalities, and that no such thing in fact exists or has ever existed.

If you truly wish to look at a nation of men as a distinct biological organism then what it truly is is a bunch of bacterial colonies on a petri dish, composed of the city states all of whom share the same dull pus colored greenish gray growing into each other like merging metroplexes.
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No. 15932
>>15893
>You do realize that basically what you want is Catholicism, right?
At this point I'd take even Islam over Catholicism (not that I want Islam). Abrahamic religion cannot cope with modernity, especially not an Abrahamic faith based around a decadent and corrupt church that, in the rare moments when it isn't fiddling little boys, can't decide on whether to be hardline reactionary or half-heartedly entertain postmodernism.

>I am also not sure what you mean by "leftism is a failed enterprise" which given that your whole family is hardcore Conservative/right wing I somehow doubt you have any idea what "leftism" even means.
Please try to assume better about your fellow Ernsts. I went to university renowned for its radical leftism, and I'm still leftist in sympathies if not in terms of what I think can work in the world. I cited Fox News as an example of why that particular statement about conservatism was shit and unoriginal. Is that not obvious from context? From the mere fact that I'm posting on EC instead of some shithole imageboard? Do you seriously think someone here would positively cite Fox News? Nobody with an IQ above 89 has a positive opinion of mainstream American conservatism.

>>15898
>All I would say in response is that the state of nature predates society, so individuals are not inherently tied to the social contract/state, and therefore have no obligation to act in support of it.
Man hasn't lived in a state of nature since the hunter-gatherers vanished, and only drew further away from it with the rise of cities and the state. Society at a level beyond a hunter-gatherer band requires coercion and cultural programming in order to make all of the parts work together. You can't have a voluntary society of 50,000 people, let alone 300 million.

I believe in the right to withdraw from society (a cell can survive in a cultured dish, and this doesn't affect the cells in the body), but not to work against its interests or deny that society exists. Libertarians do both. Postmodern leftists, by tearing down all meaning and refusing to create any replacement, work against society even if they espouse empathy and altruism as virtues.

>>15903
Without mass genocide, we're stuck with large-scale societies, and we have to make do with them. It's alright if you retreat in horror from society, but don't extend your hermetic or clannish instincts into political nihilism.

>Self sacrifice is a lie. You should only sacrifice for your own family.
Every society that believes this is, without exception, a complete shithole. In fact, this is THE metric for how shit a society is.
This is why people should read Peter Turchin. Successful societies are defined by universal prosociality, by the programmed instinctive extension of empathy to all other members of the society. It works. It directly correlates with how not-shit a society is. Yes, there is always corruption and nepotism, but it exists at different levels in different societies - a minority will always act like clannish dicks, but most people won't instinctively act that way if they are properly programmed and encouraged. The parts of Italy dominated by the Mafia are the poor and backwards parts, and people flee them en masse for the more functional and prosocial northern parts of Italy (in the past, they fled to America).

This is why political philosophy needs empirical grounding. You can live in a society where the shithole metric is constantly on the rise (which is the case in America today), and conclude that the fundamental nature of human society is of competing Mafia clans. But there are numerous examples throughout history, including American history, of the shithole metric rising and falling with time. The goal of any political philosophy, fundamentally, should be to move society away from the troughs of the shithole metric, and towards higher and more sustained peaks of prosocial beliefs and behavior. Because prosociality - universally extended empathy, self-sacrifice and restraint for the greater good - is by far the most important thing for a society*. The form of government and its symbols are irrelevant as long as it works toward this goal.

*You can have a prosocial nightmare state, but you cannot have an antisocial society that is not a nightmare.
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No. 15935
>>15932
Man exists in a state of nature for as long as he desires, and may return to it any time he desires. It's more than a literal thing, transcending that into a philosophical state of boundless liberty which (keyword) may, be somewhat limited for entry to a society for benefit and the exchange revoked at any time. I'm actually of the belief that since someone's revocation of consent to government is ignored by society, then that society is coercive and deserves to be opposed. The idea that to exist in a society also requires lockstep acceptance and support of it is also coercive and deserves opposition.

>Because prosociality - universally extended empathy, self-sacrifice and restraint for the greater good - is by far the most important thing for a society
And who defines this 'greater good'? A lot of people tend to think that the 'greater good' is spending my money for their benefit without my consent, and forever stealing from everybody with the inflation tax. One cannot claim prosociality if a large portion of the population is suppressed and coerced into agreeing with the few since after all, society is made up of individuals. Therefore, the only way that anything can be truly prosocial is if it has the utmost and irrevocable respect for individual agency so that they may pursue their own happiness and good, which seems to be the opposite of your conclusion. It's kind of what the whole 'pursuit of happiness' part means.
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No. 15940
>>15891
Well, it's not like I can't re-read it multiple times in either language with and without essays.
The thing about Shakespeare's works in Hungarian is that there aren't "multiple" translations you can choose from. There is Arany János' rendition and that's it. Not because nobody translated it besides him since the 1800s, but because his rendition is so iconic I'd consider it basically heresy to touch it.
It's THE version to be read, anything else is third rate plainly because you got used to this one over the years, because everyone has been quoting it for circa 200 years now.
That goes for all of Shakespeare's plays.

Though I actually have a bilingual edition at hand if you actually care so much for this. When we read it in class, I found the English version funnier somehow.
>>
No. 15957
>>15492
tbh you shouldn't follow my example if you want to be well read.

I don't read many books at all due to shit attention span. I usually just read articles on topics I am interested in, then extrapolate opinions from there

99% of what I say is pulled straight out of my ass with no basis in academic canons. It's more fun this way because when you start taking intellectual pursuits seriously, you realize that you don't have enough of a lifespan or IQ to achieve anything that matters in the field.

So I guess my only advice is normie tier: "just have fun with it".
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No. 15958
>>15935
>Man exists in a state of nature for as long as he desires, and may return to it any time he desires.
That's a nice idea, but it's hopelessly naive.

>which (keyword) may, be somewhat limited for entry to a society for benefit and the exchange revoked at any time.
So you can spend your whole life partaking in society and the benefits associated with it, only to withdraw at the moment it asks for something in return?

No man is an island. No society is voluntary - if you treat it like it is, it collapses like a labor market with voluntary unions. If everyone has the option to opt out of duties while enjoying the benefits of the sacrifice of others, eventually everyone stops sacrificing and nobody benefits.

You can't extricate yourself from it because everything in your life is a product of it, unless you go out into the Outback and live off of witchetty grubs and kangaroo meat. After, of course, relinquishing everything that you have gained as a byproduct of living in society. That's the only way to go Galt and not be a hypocrite.

>A lot of people tend to think that the 'greater good' is spending my money for their benefit without my consent, and forever stealing from everybody with the inflation tax. One cannot claim prosociality if a large portion of the population is suppressed and coerced into agreeing with the few since after all, society is made up of individuals.
And the great majority of individuals are massively benefited by taxation in a prosocial society. To call it theft is meaningless if the absence of theft in this case would lead to unsustainable socioeconomic stratification, immiseration of the masses, and a real reduction in standard of living and the ability to make one's own life choices that is greater than that caused by the imposition of taxes. There's a reason people move from Somalia to Sweden and not the other way around.

A moral theory based exclusively on negative rights separates men into islands, even though man has never lived this way. Hunter-gatherers lived in hypersocial close-knit societies, where everyone had a great degree of freedom in what they did with their days, but in which everyone was fundamentally constrained to act prosocially whenever their actions affected other people - if they refused to do so, they would be ostracized or even expelled.

Even in societies that have made a virtue of men who withdraw from the world, those men are never truly isolated. Stylites and monastics served as religious inspiration for the masses, and by necessity were often supported materially by them. Chinese scholar-hermitage was always somewhat performative, and often a hermit would compose poetry with the intent of it spreading throughout the literati of China.

To an extent this shows how to withdraw from an advanced civilized society is even more ridiculous than to withdraw from a hunter-gatherer band. You can't claim the right to sever all obligations to society unless you truly sever all ties to society. Your house, your job, your money which has universally recognized value, your roads, the store you buy your goods at, all of these are products of society. Think of all the work done to support your lifestyle that involves skills and resources which you personally lack. Without a social framework to support the individuals that created and maintained these things, they would all collapse. The government, as the necessary coordinating agent of society, has a right to take any arbitrary amount in taxes in deems necessary in order to provide public services, because the stable environment that allows business to be conducted and fortunes made - that allows for the very concept of a fortune to exist - is the result of a stable and extendedly empathetic society.

So, are you prepared to go live on witchetty grubs and kangaroo meat in the Outback? If not, don't complain about taxes and gubment and people requiring things of you. You exist as a part of society whether you like it or not.
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No. 15971
81 kB, 735 × 548
395 kB, 940 × 788
>>15958
>You can't claim the right to sever all obligations to society unless you truly sever all ties to society. Your house, your job, your money which has universally recognized value, your roads, the store you buy your goods at, all of these are products of society
Honestly you have no idea how much this is seductive to me, and only fulfills the greater urge in me towards my favorite central core cultism. But then again there is a hidden part of me some might consider like a pacifist Christian version of ISIS. You have no idea the latent hostility we have to society, all of it. There remain those of us who will not be bound by that social contract, who see it as anathema to our natures and as the greatest of all perversions warping the very nature of man, the soul, nature, and God itself.

Many people are only in this due to it being the path of least resistance. And because they see no other option and thus remain there, apathetic as slugs. We are inherently hostile to this society and we hate it, we hate its ways and means, and we hate its doctrines thoroughly. How can a man claim to be of both this world and the kingdom of God? Or how can a man say, behold I profiteth from both the spiritual cleanliness and the abasement of the material world? Shall a man set his one foot on the firmament and the other upon the waters? And I will say to you that no, only through God and the Son of Man is such a thing possible, for the nature of men is to then set their spiritual temple on uneasy foundations and to be divided against himself, and no man can be stood therein.

Therefore I say to you, follow only the ways of the Lord, or embrace spiritual oblivion through this world, for you cannot have both.
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No. 15972 Kontra
>>15971
And God willing, I will find a way to merge the hippy communes and the preppers and survivalists with these such groups http://www.twelvetribes.com/

We must simply reject this society. ALL of this society. It does not mean a rejection of community itself and that is where I believe your assumptions wrong sir. Ye though no man be an island, there is a difference between right and wrong community as there is between disease and health. Would you join the Bloods or Crips? They are their own societies with their own social contracts and expectations. We should and do thoroughly reject those contracts and doctrines and the falsehood of their laws. We should likewise reject all the false laws imposed by men who think themselves lords. No man has the right to tell you you cannot build a cabin and live off the land, or force you into submission and subservience to him and his worldliness.

It is like abandoning a cult. You must consider which society holds truth and which does not, which is sick and which is not.

And this society and most of its sub-societies are clearly sick.
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No. 15974
191 kB, 634 × 744
>>15958
>naive
And believing that society/the state will fix everything after thousands of years of ruining everything isn't beyond naive?

You seem to operate on the extremely flawed notion that self-benefit cannot lead to mutual benefit. Also the idea that the state is necessary and that the societies that currently exist are the ones that must exist. Instead, society should be a voluntary endeavour where they would fragment into ones based on consent of the participants. It is not a total withdrawal from society, it is the voluntary rejection of a coercive society in favour of a non-coercive one. This doesn't mean that the members work for the 'greater good' because they must, but they work for individual benefit in a voluntary group that pursues similar goals. If a member of the group does not share priorities at some point, then they are free to leave instead of being enslaved to the system, the state of nature may always be returned to. Also, the 'benefits' of a tax-fueled system are literally services rendered. It doesn't make it any less theft than if someone gives you the market price for your house and then forces you out at gunpoint. Exchange must be voluntary or it isn't exchange.

Also things like money can exist without the state and are not reliant on large-scale coercive society to exist. In fact, I'd argue it is better without a central authority managing it because fiat is garbage that gets printed into oblivion and hits everybody with inflation tax, destroying their purchasing power. Money is essentially a widely accepted trade good, and privately-operated monetary systems can and have existed, such as in the case of promissory notes in the early banks of Europe. Also things like muh roads, public works etc. can literally be made and maintained by individuals who want to pool their resources to build them. All get their individual goal of a road but due to working voluntarily with likeminded individuals, the collective goal of having a road is also achieved without coercion. Things like food trade gets better because there is no longer interference with the market and debasement of currency, so you have an efficient system of traders providing goods being paid for with currency that holds or even gains value instead of being subjected to central bank inflation. Remember that once upon a time, bank notes could be exchanged for an equal value of gold upon request. This gave everybody access to liquid capital instead of the garbage that is fiat. So really, I can't think of a single thing that collective-oriented society does that an individual-oriented society doesn't do in a better way.
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No. 15979
500 kB, 1280 × 870
>>15874
Thanks for the Berger text. I appreciate his comprehensible accounts of these rather obscure and esoteric subcultures, as I find even Burroughs already vaguely creepy not to mention the more occult thinkers or stuff like Scientology.
There's also a movie mentioned, Decoder (1984), which sounds intriguing, maybe I'll review it some time in the cinema thread.

RE Luhmann, I chose that book haphazardly since I wanted to read something general by Luhmann that wasn't as long as e.g. Soziale Systeme. It's nothing urgent for me, so I'll also see if I can maybe pick up this Vertrauen book some time.

>>15876
No worries. I ended up reading it today actually, in English and trying to read aloud for the most part. I also have a bilingual edition, but The German translation was missing a lot of the wit and was pretty stiff. I mostly looked at it only for translations of some uncommon words. Other than that there's just the Elizabethan slang of nothing/something etc. that you need to know about as far as I can tell.
It was great, much more comedic than I expected though. I think you will like it.

>>15890
>I just want to see this organic view of society laid out comprehensively in a form meant for mass propagation in the modern era, and a movement built behind it.
Frankly, that sounds horrifying to me. I'm all about that pluralism, so I propose to agree to disagree.
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No. 15984
I started reading Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. I hoped it would be about his thoughts on events and such but it's just philosophy. Bleh....
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No. 15988
50 kB, 948 × 1289
A decent overview of what the author considers to be the highlights of the past 500 years of Western cultural history. I very much enjoyed the writing style of Barzun, but the span of the period covered prevents him from treating any topic with anything but conscison. That being said, I found it a good resource to refresh my memory and to inform me of many figures of which I knew nothing. I was a bit disappointed at the short length of the section dealing with Goethe, but I suppose if everyone wanted to read in depth about their favorites the work would be gargantuan. It is a nice book to get your feet wet on the centuries covered, but if you are already an expert you might find it basic. Still, I found it worthwhile even if the occasional Spengler-esque fiat judgement cropped up here or there.
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No. 15996
>>15988
not an expert (nowhere near it) but you're right when saying that the book is more like an overview for those who want to fresh up their knowledge on the history period

speaking of Barzun's writing per se, I didn't like it, his skills are far from mastery of e.g. Braudel
I mean, it wasn't THAT bad but when you don't find the thing you're reading particularly interesting in general, writing starts to play the leading role
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No. 16008
>>15988
>even if the occasional Spengler-esque fiat judgement cropped up here or there.

The title is already judgemental as hell. It also implies a certain philosophy of history. Revolving history around some important figures is quite narrow minded btw.

Better read some early Latour to get that movers&shakers attitude out of the way. I haven't done it myself tho, but I really want to. Latour has a point I think, when he proposes, that achievements in science e.g. are not made just by one person alone but is always constituted by a network of actors. Nobody is out of touch with others. The aesthetics of genius are dated, nothing man made is ex nihilo.
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No. 16106
76 kB, 826 × 1280
Started reading the Iliad today, loving it so far. It's much easier to comprehend now than the Odyssey when I read it a few years ago.

Tomorrow I'll be dropping by the local bookstore for once to see if they'll stock the new Houellebecq novel which is supposed to release on Monday in Germany, else I'll just order it online. Today the French edition came out; news articles claim an English release is stated only for September though that doesn't seem right to me, but who knows.
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No. 16117
>>15988
>even if the occasional Spengler-esque fiat judgement cropped up here or there

I kind of like it when historians throw in some offhand judgements like that. It feels like modern historians are afraid to ever have an opinion. That's what I liked about reading Will Durant. He would occasionally throw in comments about his own personal judgement of entire eras or civilizations.
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No. 16132
>>16117
It's because opinions are for the internet these days and not for academia.
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No. 16135
>>16106
>news articles claim an English release is stated only for September though that doesn't seem right to me, but who knows.

Gallic thought rarely crosses into the Anglosphere. I wouldn't have even heard of Houellebecq had it not been for rare posts on imageboards and it stands the reason his new work won't sell many copies in English.

Maybe that's why he had to get a gook :^)
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No. 16136
>>16117
As the German says, but I'd expand it and say that a professional has a point and not just an opinion.
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No. 16142
Today I read the Yuan-dynasty era drama The Injustice to Dou E. It was pretty standard. It was a moving story of an upstanding young widow who decided to die instead of living in shame.
Though I say it was standard, because it really is just another one of those works of Chinese literature where the bureaucrat character solves a case through divine intervention and rights wrong.
So while it was well written, it sure as hell wasn't THAT exciting to read through.
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No. 16151
I've recently started reading some Deep Ecology stuff after reading Penguin's recent publication of Arne Næss collected works. I've chosen a broad range of opinions-

- Against Civilization: Readings and Reflections, a collection edited by John Zerzan. This is a very radical collection of anarcho-primitivist writings that calls for the abolition of civilization entirely. I disagree with the position, but it's interesting seeing critiques of current society from the perspective of those who wish to either return to a primitivist state or abolish current civilization for an anarchic alternative.

- Deep Ecology for the 21st Century, another collection of essays edited by George Sessions. This collection is more in keeping with Arne Næss's views, which is that society in itself is flawed, but can be reformed to live in balance with nature. Broad spectrum of essays, covering Bright Green (i.e., technological solutions to ecological problems), anarchist, and ecofeminist writers. It can be good when it focuses on nature writing (which Næss and Sessions are great at) or actual policy (which Synder outlines very vividly), but there is a little too much on "New Age" stuff that I find, from a rationalist perspective, a bit weird.

- Can Life Prevail? by Pentii Linkola. Supposedly quiet controversial (he advocates extreme anti-natalist measures, such as mass sterilisation), but I found his essays coherent, well reasoned and originating from a deep and passionate affection for the Earth. He's a great nature writer too, his recounts of his time as a fisherman and his life living in remote Finland are great.
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No. 16167
>>16151
>Deep Ecology for the 21st Century

Sounds interesting.
I wonder how much mankind can abandon its natural environment before it all ends. Maybe it would be able to create its own that somehow works. An "pushed thru" anthroprocene.
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No. 16364
After barely reading a single page for the last two weeks (it happens once in a while, especially when I'm visiting family and friends and frequently drink or drug) I finally got back to reading The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea and finished it. The end was really good and even felt right in some kind of perverted way. Disturbing and bizarre, yet really beautiful and making sense. Will definitely need to read more by Mishima (even though I've found his excessively extensive descriptions of landscapes still quite annoying. Very beautifully written but exhausting after a while, Thirst for Love seems like a good choice, not only because it's one of the few novels of him still available in german translation. Seriously, it's very hard to get those nowadays if you don't have way too much money on your hands.

Also just started reading the new Houellebecq but can't tell a lot about it for I'm just at the beginning yet. I think it will be fun.

Btw I'm thinking about integrating some sci-fi into my this year's reading. Probably will get myself Solaris by Lem and maybe A Canticle for Leibowitz. Has anyone here read the latter? I know there are some sci-fi pros among you. If you've got any other recommendations for someone who's more into literary fiction let me hear those please. I've read good things about The Book of the New Sun as well.
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No. 16365
>>16364
A Canticle For Leibowitz is pretty good. After book of the new sun there are also book of the short sun and book of the long sun.
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No. 16368
>>16364
Not a pro but interested but not read much.

Solaris is ok, philosophical. I should read it again because of a certain part of the story.

J.G. Ballard is quite good from what I've read so far, which is not much tho. But he is especially known in the UK, I think.

Neuromancer is another classic afaik.
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No. 16369
195 kB, 1600 × 1067
>>16364
The Book of the New Sun is really excellent, and super rewarding to reread. If you like Borges at all you'll love it.
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No. 16370
>>16364
>Also just started reading the new Houellebecq but can't tell a lot about it for I'm just at the beginning yet. I think it will be fun.

Same here, just read the first third. It feels less radical and focused thematically so far, but definitely fun to read. We'll see how it continues, I think I'll try writing a short review.

A Canticle for Leibowitz is quite good, would recommend. I read Solaris so long ago I don't even remember much, might have not even finished it. I watched the Tarkovsky movie recently though and it was splendid. On that note, maybe something by the Strugatsky brothers might be worth checking out as well.
Incidentally, I was also planning to read a bit more SciFi this year. So far I started with Blindsight by Peter Watts which is annoying me slightly with the forced gritty language and technical mumbo-jumbo but it's appealing enough to keep reading. The other books on my list are The Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe and The Three-Body Problem by Liu Cixin for both of which I heard almost universal high praise so far.
Other than that the LotGH novels are getting translated so that might be worth checking out if you're not a fan of the anime (or I guess especially then?)

>>16368
These also sound like good suggestions, I didn't particularly enjoy Gibson' gritty style though I've only read the Burning Chrome short story collection.
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No. 16383
>>16368
>J.G. Ballard
I didn't read much of him either (only Crash and High-Rise), but I had an impression that he is one of the most overrated SF writers ever. Wouldn't recommend these two books of his.
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No. 16384
28 kB, 488 × 488
35 kB, 597 × 311
Reading these presently. Both are pretty well argued.
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No. 16387
>>16368
Ballard is an odd one. He isn't actually well known in the UK, if you mean it as a "popular author", but he has had an impact on highbrow culture, particularly since his death. His views on fiction in general, and science fiction being the only fiction worth writing in the 20th and 21st century, isolated him for a long time, but his champions - Will Self, principally - have been very vocal. However, the odd thing is is that while his early work is most definitely sci-fi, his later years (which is when he became more intense in his criticisms of fiction) are typified by thrillers, psychological horrors, absurdism, that sort of thing, that hardly even have the trappings of sci-fi (I actually think these later short stories are the best).

Two volumes of his collected short stories have recently been republished, but I think his early novels may be more appealing if you want sci-fi. Of course, High Rise has been popular recently because of the recent film, but try The Drowned World, an ostensibly post-apocalyptic novel where climate change leads to the seas rising, but becomes something better by the end (won't spoil!).

If you're interested in Ballard, try this interview, conducted by Swedish television in the late 80's. It was just after the publication of Empire of the Sun, but thankfully has very little to do with that and discusses Ballard's futurism. It's in Swedish but most of the interview is just Ballard talking in English:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS6MWpFX_N0
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No. 16396
>>16370
I loved the LoGH anime to death, but the novels are really weak compared to the anime.
It feels like reading a knock-off War and Peace or Three Kingdoms.
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No. 16411
>>16387
Thanks! The documentary makes very clear why Ballard is an interesting writer for our present day while not being your typical sci-fi writer indeed. I agree the late books really have no sci-fi setting whatsoever.
Why do I like Ballard? Because I think what he states in the interview is true in many aspects.
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No. 16415
It seems like there aren't many if any actual fiction novels with explicit sexual violence. Is this an untapped niche?
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No. 16441
>>16415
Of course there are. The non-comic-books from fansadox for example. Or the Sandra books by Gord or whatever the name was. Never read any of those, so I can't tell you anything about the writing.

Also, the classic from DeSade, 120 Days of Sodom.