/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

File (max. 4)
Return to
(optional)
  • Allowed file extensions (max. size 25 MB or specified)
    Images:  BMP, GIF, JPG, PNG, PSD   Videos:  FLV, MP4, WEBM  
    Archives:  7Z, RAR, ZIP   Audio:  FLAC, MP3, OGG, OPUS  
    Documents:  DJVU (50 MB), EPUB, MOBI, PDF (50 MB)  
  • Please read the Rules before posting.
  • Make sure you are familiar with the Guide to Anonymous Posting.

No. 16086 Systemkontra
567 kB, 1346 × 585
Well I guess previous news thread is on kontra

News Thread
>>
No. 16088
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/technology/weather-channel-app-lawsuit.html
It is spooky to realize how much we are already living in the sinkhole to 1984, except that it's corporations not government doing it, like the absolute worst version of any cyberpunk dystopia.

Posting this below because if this becomes the news thread I don't want OP to stay stuck on one story/theme.
>>
No. 16179
266 kB, 1024 × 671
132 kB, 1024 × 618
This is what happens when you vote for corrupt right wing political parties or Hungarians, some here might claim
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/05/world/europe/hungary-protests-slave-law.html
>BUDAPEST — Gyula Radics is not easily angered. When Prime Minister Viktor Orban rewrote the Constitution to give his party greater power, he stayed on the sidelines. When the party took over state media, he was silent. And when the government forced the internationally renowned Central European University out of Hungary, he did not join the protests.

>But after Mr. Orban pushed through legislation compelling employees to work hundreds of hours of overtime without full or immediate compensation, he had enough.

>“Orban destroys lives and families,” Mr. Radics said as he prepared to march with thousands of protesters Saturday afternoon. A 39-year-old steelworker with five children, he traveled from Veszprem, an hour outside of Budapest.

>“This is all we have left,” he said. By this, he meant the streets.

>Over the past eight years, Mr. Orban has steadily used the instruments of a democratic state to undermine nearly all checks on his power.

>After a sweeping victory in April elections, his Fidesz party again controls two-thirds of the votes in Parliament, allowing it to pass any legislation it likes. Before breaking for winter recess, the party moved quickly to pass two contentious measures.

>One set up a parallel court system, a move widely condemned as undermining the rule of law. While legal experts warned of the profound consequences of ceding control of the judicial system to a political party, it was another measure — compelling workers to work 400 hours of overtime and allowing compensation to be delayed for three years — that fueled the most outrage.

>The legislation, branded the “slave law” by an uncharacteristically united opposition, has spurred the most sustained protests since Mr. Orban entered office in 2010.

>Fidesz leaders were initially dismissive of the anger.
>>
No. 16184
>>16179
I wouldn't say that he passed this law because he is corrupt, it's just that right-wingers supporting Orban are braindead and didn't think about consequences. You either have low birth rates and accept economic migrants or you don't accept migrants but instead you must have more babies, which is impossible, so you work more instead. Eastern Europe suffers from great brain drain to the West and they have even bigger problems than Germany, the UK or USA but because of pure emotional feelings aka nationalism they they doom themselves to the worst material conditions.
>>
No. 16191
>>16179
>>16184
It's a big nothing. The law in practice just legalize all those overtime our workers do anyway. Now on their "wageslip" the money they get for their overtime will be marked as such and not some vague "bonus" or with whatever tricks they account for it.
>>
No. 16199
>>16191

The article said
>allowing compensation to be delayed for three years

It that nothing? I would be pretty pissed as well. Shady bonus payments instead of accurate work hour payments is indeed not good. But getting accuracy in exchange for delay is nothing one could really strive for. There is something shady with the government when they don't just legalize it right away, why implant that delay? If the bonus payments were accurate before the law passed that would be even more faulty btw.
>>
No. 16201
>>16179
Well, I don't know the details, but at first glance it seems like a really dishonest move.
A betrayal if you will.
Orbán's slogan is that he is running the "System of National Unity" (Nemzeti Egység Rendszere), which exists to protect the nation's and its citizens well-being from foreign interference. "We will not be a colony" (Nem leszünk gyarmat!).
And then, this supposedly "National" and "Christian" government goes out, and sells its workers to the capital of the German factory owners in the name of "competitiveness".

Though I do understand the government's claims too, because if you have a lot of time on your hand, then you are actually allowed to work and get paid more.
The problems will arise in towns and villages where there are only a few employers, so the workers will have little bargaining power about whether or not they want to do overtime and get paid for it.

It's sad that they are writing about the demonstrations as if they are going to change anything. The last time this country "took up arms" and actually managed to override one of Orbáns decisions was when the government decided that they'll "tax the internet" in 2014.
>>
No. 16211
>>16201
>We will not be a colony"
>And then, this supposedly "National" and "Christian" government goes out, and sells its workers in the name of "competitiveness".

That's how right wing populism works everywhere.
>>
No. 16225
>>16184
> or you don't accept migrants but instead you must have more babies, which is impossible
My Catholic extended family says otherwise. You do realize people used to have like 17 babies because most of them didn't survive infancy/childhood right?

You can indeed just keep having lots more babies.
>>
No. 16232
>>16225
This is basic knowledge and I thought I don't have to explain every statement. No, you can't. Once your country becomes developed, people stop having children and no country in the world managed to reverse the trend. Theoretically, even Russia or China can become pro-Western and liberal over the next year, but it will require a huge set of circumstances and big changes inside the countries, so is the people's mentality and their desire to have children. The desires of one person or even an entire political party to raise birth rates wouldn't be able to radically change the reality and human mood, developed countries already give parental leave and tax concessions for familes but this is not enough. A high level of well-being leads only to a low birth rate.
>>
No. 16236
>>16232
The big problem of raising lots of kids is purely economic and besides which are you telling me that my 14 aunts and uncles were born in the third world? Because yeah guess how the baby boom happened. You know, that thing that gave rise to the term "boomer" as in, baby boomer? And it followed with massive economic prosperity and advanced nation conditions.

Fact is we have a disgusting neoCapitalist system that is robbing us blind and indebting everyone to the international banker and that the companies in turn would rather either outsource or import cheap labor than having to deal with a population that expects a living wage.

Oh and another thing a big part of the reason why we had such sustained growth was the GI bill. All these guys returning home had taxpayer funded programs for getting back into work through more training and education. Slashing medical and education costs while providing tax breaks and fiscal incentives along with government programs would massively improve our own birth rates.
>>
No. 16251
>>16236
The Warsaw pact members experienced the same boom and decline in birth rates and the socialist governments of respective countries did nothing, Germany, France, Netherlands, Scandinavia are the best welfare states in the world with little inequality and huge public sector prodiving free gibs for the population, yet citizens of those countries still don't want to have kids. Life in rich countries has greatly increased people's expectations from life, each generation takes the current high quality of life for granted and still complains that this ain't enough. Do people in Africa live better than Americans?
>>
No. 16254
>>16086
Honestely, I had hope that this thread would not be ressurected. Political disscutions and arguins constantly ending with terrible tier of posting.
>>
No. 16255
>>16251
But they did do something.
Anna Ratkó banned contraception and abortion, which led to a post-war baby boom.
>>
No. 16259
>>16211
>>16201
>sells its workers to the capital of the German factory owners in the name of "competitiveness".
That's how it works in the EU we're on a railroad here. It's true that Fidesz is only national because that's what it can sell to voters tho.

>>16184
>You either have low birth rates and accept economic migrants
More and more Ukrainians work here.
>you don't accept migrants but instead you must have more babies
Govt initiated measures that helps families to plan more than one kids.
>you work more instead
Not because making more babies is impossible, but because babies typically aren't popping out as skilled workers from their mothers' belly. It takes time. And the pressure to produce more shit is constant.
>>
No. 16260
People often talk about that we need more kids and that population decline, but in reallity, do we need more kids? We have more than 7.7 billion people already but not discovered any kind of warp engine to transfer people to other solar systems. And most of regions with current high birth rate are most times poor - and while they are improving their life quality to certain degree, birthrate dropping.
>>
No. 16262
>>16259
>that's what it can sell to voters tho
And what a voting base it has!
Pensioners who were Communist Youth members and were screaming "fascism" roughly 10 years ago. It's incredibly dishonest to see these people march during the Békemenet.
Makes me sick.
I wish I had no opinion on politics. I wish I knew nothing about this and be happily ignorant of the matter.
>>
No. 16280
>>16260
We don't need them, because real life is a big pile of shit, especially in Russia, but pensions are one of the most ravenous parts of the government's budget in any country and pensions of many old people depend on the current situation with labor market. I don't know how Ukrainian government is going to support its elders when millions of Ukrainians receive free education inside the country but prefer to work abroad.
>>
No. 16281
>>16251
>Germany, France, Netherlands, Scandinavia are the best welfare states in the world with little inequality and huge public sector prodiving free gibs for the population, yet citizens of those countries still don't want to have kids
There can be huge differences below the replacement rate. Italy and South Korea are close to one kid per woman. France is almost at replacement level, and not just because of Muslims having babies. Scandinavia and the Netherlands are closer to France than Italy, and IIRC most of former commieland is closer to Italy than France.

The main problem seems to be a compounding of liberation of women from the home, but without relative liberation in the workplace. If you can't be a housewife, but you also have to be a wageslave without French or Nordic-tier work laws, kids just aren't practical.

>>16260
I would like to see a declining human population, but the vast majority of human beings are soon going to live in poor shitholes with birthrates that will remain high for the foreseeable future, and which will still be exponentially increasing their own ecological footprint barring technological and structural revolutions.

So, as a rich country, it makes sense to simply focus on your own country's health - and unfortunately, the welfare state will be difficult to support if most people are pensioners and there are only a few young people to support them. Japan would be better off in the long run with a stable population half of what it is now, but there will be hell during the transition period, and who is to say the population will stabilize at 60 million, instead of declining further alongside an eternally declining welfare state?
>>
No. 16302
65 kB, 1425 × 625
11 kB, 480 × 360
>>16254
No we are going to talk about politics and I for one am sick of seeing these blue zones just sitting back in their comfortable climate controlled high rises sipping cool lemonade in their topiary gardens while they watch the rest of us die and the planet turn into one big red zone. They think they have the technology but we have the numbers. Brothers, sisters, I have a proposition: we need more babies! It is therefore your revolutionary duty to have as many children as possible, and train them in making IEDs and holding a rocket launcher as soon as they can walk. And if you lose one? Birth two more!
>>
No. 16304
48 kB, 640 × 400
48 kB, 640 × 400
47 kB, 640 × 400
47 kB, 640 × 480
>>16302
Ha ha I'am in blue zone.
Tbh in first tiberium war russia was part of GDI. However it was not same russia, it was russia after soiet union won Great War II and conquered most of europe, but then immideatly fall due to stalin death as was planned by Kane
>>
No. 16314
>>16281
>shitholes with birthrates that will remain high for the foreseeable future

They are declining everywhere.
>>
No. 16316
>>16314
Not everywhere, some African countries still have 5+ birthrate average
>>
No. 16317 Kontra
>>16316
They had 15+ birthrate 20 years ago
>>
No. 16321
>>16317
All of the people who have many children migrated to Europe.
>>
No. 16322
>>16321
According to...? Do you understand that 190 million people live in Nigeria alone, and Europe has not accepted even 1% of the African population as migrants?
>>
No. 16325
10 kB, 225 × 225
906 kB, 653 × 905
German Journalist Billy Six was and still is illegally incarcerated in Venezuela.

By the way this guy found also out that Ukrainian Airforce shot down MH17.
>>
No. 16330
And in heartwarming news today
https://mmajunkie.com/2019/01/ufc-fighter-polyana-viana-beats-up-man-who-tried-robbing-her
This woman beat the shit out of him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=867C0AFF4ug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPO_JZtvvgs
I have also realized to my murica ears brbr Portuguese sounds like a weird Spanishized Russian.
>>
No. 16335 Kontra
>>16325
>By the way this guy found also out that Ukrainian Airforce shot down MH17.

lol
>>
No. 16340 Kontra
>>16325
>Ukrainian Airforce shot down MH17.

Ach, Ernst.
>>
No. 16374
Holy shit I love the Orthodox now all praise be to Kirill
https://www.chron.com/business/technology/article/Russian-church-head-Smartphones-could-precede-13516621.php
>MOSCOW (AP) — The head of the Russian Orthodox Church says the data-gathering capacity of devices such as smartphones risks bringing humanity closer to the arrival of the Antichrist.

>In an interview shown Monday on state TV, Patriarch Kirill said the church does not oppose technological progress but is concerned that "someone can know exactly where you are, know exactly what you are interested in, know exactly what you are afraid of" and that such information could be used for centralized control of the world.

>"Control from one point is a foreshadowing of the coming of Antichrist, if we talk about the Christian view. Antichrist is the person who will be at the head of the world wide web that controls the entire human race," he said.
This I agree with word for word. He did not mention what I believe which is that Google itself is a forerunner of the Beast.
>>
No. 16406 Kontra
>>16325
>By the way this guy found also out that Ukrainian Airforce shot down MH17.

Ernstchan, I...
>>
No. 16422
>>16374
Why wouldn't he mention that Russian government has brought humanity closer to the arrival of the Antichrist then? :^)
>>
No. 16424
573 kB, 404 × 493, 0:02
The Ernstchan news thread, brought to you by schizenu.
>>
No. 16426
105 kB, 267 × 400
>>16422
Kirill is wise, he knows that the Russian government would never spawn the Anti-Christ. If anything, the Russian government might possibly charge the taxpayers for one, but it will only deliver a lesser demon at best.
>>
No. 16427 Kontra
>>16422
Lies! Russia’s morality is unshakable!
Putin pravoslavniy! :^)
>>
No. 16435
281 kB, 820 × 541
145 kB, 1024 × 683
68 kB, 800 × 551
>>16422
All this technology was properly holyfied and machine spitit now serves only for good
>>
No. 16470
56 kB, 425 × 169
It's not really important news but
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-gov-ron-desantis-suspends-broward-sheriff-scott-israel-over-parkland-massacre-response/
I am honestly still completely fucking amazed by all this. So now that we have literally prison tier patrols by armed guards in schools now, we can rest safely assured that the good guy with a gun is apparently under no obligation at all to actually defend the students getting massacred. I am amazed that it took this long for there to be actual consequences for this kind of shit. This whole fiasco was just evidence that we should kick all the cops out of our damn schools since they're apparently completely useless anyway except for ruining our freedoms and killing the spirit of liberty in the youth.
>>
No. 16482 Kontra
>>16470
quality picture
amazing filename
>>
No. 16502
141 kB, 1024 × 512
>The event reflects a deepening Anglo-Japanese partnership on security and defence, with Japan eager to pull Britain into an increasingly turbulent Asia and Britain keen to firm up its international friendships after Brexit.

>Mr Abe came bearing gifts. He was expected to offer Mrs May political succour by backing her beleaguered Brexit deal, mindful of the more than 1,000 Japanese companies in Britain that stand to lose out if no deal is agreed. He lifted a ban on British beef and lamb that had been in place since the spread in Britain of bse, or mad-cow disease, over 20 years ago. That should reap £120m ($153m) for British farmers over five years. The two countries are also working more closely together on what Mrs May calls “grand challenges”: artificial intelligence, ageing societies and clean growth.

>But it is military co-operation that has truly blossomed. Britain and Japan both project themselves as outward-looking island nations committed to a rules-based international system. Mrs May endorsed Japan’s concept of a “free and open Indo-Pacific”, a term that alludes to concerns over China’s troublesome behaviour in the region. Since 2015 Britain has hailed Japan as its closest security partner in Asia, sent Typhoon fighter jets to carry out exercises with Japan’s air force and become the first country other than America to drill with Japan’s army. HMS Montrose, a frigate, will shortly head to Japan, becoming the fourth Royal Navy vessel to do so in under a year. These warships have co-operated with Japan’s in increasingly sensitive techniques, including anti-submarine warfare and amphibious landings.

>In December Japan upped its order of f-35 fighter jets; it is now due to operate more than Britain, which on the day of Mr Abe’s arrival announced that it had nine of the aircraft ready to deploy. Having a principal warplane in common will make it easier to swap data and tactics. Joint work on a new air-to-air missile is also moving ahead. And conversations are beginning over collaboration on navigation satellites and a next-generation fighter aircraft, both areas where Britain has peeled away from European partners and is keen to demonstrate that it has other suitors. There is also much for British and Japanese spy chiefs to discuss. British officials have been sounding the alarm over the involvement of the Chinese firm Huawei in 5g mobile networks; Japan barred Huawei from official contracts in December.

>These strengthening ties could one day turn into a formal military alliance, says one British official. Another observes that the defence relationship has not been this close since the Anglo-Japanese alliance of 1902. That pact ended 80 years of splendid isolation for Britain. Mrs May must hope that Mr Abe might at least ease her own.
https://www.economist.com/britain/2019/01/10/shinzo-abe-visits-britain-to-firm-up-security-ties

We did it, lads. Japanese waifus for everyone. No idea why we'd commit to a regional power so far away but they already like tea and curry so we'll have them watching Coronation Street in no time.
>>
No. 16503
129 kB, 1280 × 720
>>16502
>Japanese waifus for everyone.
Watch out so that they don't steal your kinpatsu shoujos for themselves instead, heh.

It looks like May is desperate. Guess she wants to save her face somehow, even if it is by means of something as silly as a military alliance with a country on the other side of the world. Speaking of the other side, could British Commonwealth potentially be a replacement for EU, at least concerning trade partnership? There are some members which are pretty strong economically, like Straya, Canada and India.
>>
No. 16505
>>16502
> No idea why we'd commit to a regional power so far away
This. Did you learn nothing from the Gitler? This is the most utterly useless alliance ever. What it really amounts to is Japan feels the US may be a more unreliable partner and wants to secure military especially naval technology because it has realized it requires its own standing defense capabilities against China. That's literally all this is.
>>
No. 16506
>>16503
>could British Commonwealth potentially be a replacement for EU
lolno
The British just fucked themselves pretty severely economically, militarily, and geopolitically and brexit is a complete disaster. They are, at best, a now extremely vulnerable hermit nation that's even more easily bent towards being a puppet of foreign players, the exact thing brexit itself was supposed to remedy. Britain cannot stand on its own two feet, it has a shabby economy that'll probably at best tailspin into Thatcherite conditions, it has no real force projection capabilities that aren't already piggybacking off of US forces, and all its other nations are not vassals anymore which is a cold reality the British peculiarly refuse to face. ANZAC is all too far away and generally uninvolved with British affairs. Canada is basically just our vassal and the Chinese are colonizing straya to an extent while NZ is basically just a useless backwater everyone wants to use as the international fallout shelter in case of WWIII. India could pick up the economic slack but they have their own problems to worry about.

The real shit hits the fan scenario would be on the off chance the pound devalues and the perception of UK not being safe or stable anymore drives enough financial interests out of London. Unlikely, but that in its own right would kill UK entirely. It has no real hold over any of its commonwealth countries, and the worst part is they're basically just going to become our Canada 2.0 because Britain really needed the EU more than it needed them and you can be damn certain the French and Germans are going to be particularly vindictive about all this.
>>
No. 16511
>>16503
>could British Commonwealth potentially be a replacement for EU, at least concerning trade partnership?
Maybe with actual colonies like Canada or Australia this could work, but the same people who can't stomach close ties with Europeans will absolutely not be able to handle similar ties with Indians or Africans.
>>
No. 16512
37 kB, 520 × 390
>>16506
ANZAC is a military formation, not a region. It's just ANZ. The last AC is 'Army Corps'. Also, you'd be surprised how in touch we are with Britain. They're still one of the most common places of birth of Australian residents and cricket series are basically informal diplomatic missions at times.

>the Chinese are colonizing straya to an extent
Not as much as you seem to think. They're very common in some places and less so in others. That's both physically and socially. I've come across more Japanese and Koreans than I have Chinese as a low-end worker. The Chinese are basically just the ones with the money. Also, it's not that weird for us to have a large Asian population when you consider the region we are located in. It's like being baffled as to why there are lots of Hispanics in the US.

>NZ is basically just a useless backwater everyone wants to use as the international fallout shelter in case of WWIII.
A 'useless backwater' which produces about 100PJ of crude a year from underdeveloped oilfields under very strict environmental laws, and one of the highest-regarded lamb industries in the world that feeds the largest sheep slaughterhouse in the Southern Hemisphere with one province which goes everywhere from China and Russia to France and the US, and in some of those countries it's the expensive stuff that has a name for itself. I know the stuff they package for France loudly proclaims it to be from Nouvelle-Zélande. They've got a lot of economic potential that people don't realise. They're not a major economy, but they aren't useless either

t. lived in both countries.
>>
No. 16513
>>16503
What's the worst that could happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdebBX1fAo8

>It looks like May is desperate. Guess she wants to save her face somehow, even if it is by means of something as silly as a military alliance with a country on the other side of the world.

There's an immediate domestic and less visible geopolitical answer to it. On the face of things Abe has come out in voicing support for the EU Withdrawal Agreement due to be voted on in Parliament on the 15th. Japan has lots of business interests in Britain so losing market access in a no deal scenario would be a headache for them.

In the bigger picture Anglo-Japanese relations have been growing closer since Cameron was in power. These days we both need a partner on advanced projects and research so that's all good while Japanese anxiety over China is profitable for our defence industry (remember the US refused to sell them F-22s). We're quite natural friends without even getting into the closeness of our respective governments. I don't know if we can talk them into fucking up Russia again.

>Speaking of the other side, could British Commonwealth potentially be a replacement for EU, at least concerning trade partnership? There are some members which are pretty strong economically, like Straya, Canada and India.

Some members would be cool and NZ voiced support for a free trade agreement right after the referendum. The issue is our future trading relationship with the EU and what terms will come with market access which may hamstring any agreements that diverge with EU policy. That will take the majority of the 2020s to sort out and it is legally questionable how far we can formally go in other agreements before this beast is finalised.

Also there was an early attempt at wooing India but Modi wanted lower immigration barriers in return while the Indian market asked for lower standards (safety, environmental protection) on things like the chemicals industry so fuck 'em.
>>
No. 16514
>>16512
Oh I thought it was Australia New Zealand America Canada (with minus America). Thanks for correction.
>>
No. 16515
>>16514
No worries. Said formation is a major part of the national myth here.
>>
No. 16583
>>16506
>Germans are going to be particularly vindictive about all this
no, we don't. there would be nothing to gain for us and the other eu/ue members from such behaviour.
brits gambled and shot themselves in the foot royally, to say the very least. that is all.
>>
No. 16629
45 kB, 660 × 371
297 kB, 421 × 421
>World's 'loneliest' frog gets a date

>A frog believed to be the last of his kind in the world has been granted a reprieve from solitude. Romeo, known as the world's loneliest frog, has spent 10 years in isolation at an aquarium in Bolivia. Scientists say they have found him a Juliet after an expedition to a remote Bolivian cloud forest.
>Teresa Camacho Badani is chief of herpetology at the Museo de Historia Natural Alcide d'Orbigny in Cochabamba City and the expedition leader. She is optimistic that opposites will attract, even in frogs: "Romeo is really calm and relaxed and doesn't move a whole lot," she told BBC News. "He's healthy and likes to eat, but he is kind of shy and slow."
>Juliet, however, has a very different personality. "She's really energetic, she swims a lot and she eats a lot and sometimes she tries to escape."
>Romeo was collected 10 years ago when biologists knew the species was in trouble, but was not expected to remain alone for so long. He attracted international attention a year ago over his search for a mate, and was even given a dating profile.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46867424

This is where we find out that she's gay.
>>
No. 16631
843 kB, 500 × 260, 0:02
>>16629
>This is where we find out that she's gay.
I fail to see how that would be relevant
>>
No. 16633
>>16629
How old do frogs get? I am surprised that Romeo is not only at least ten years old but obviously expected to live on for quite some time. For some reason I assumed those little amphibians live not even close to ten years.
I hope the two get along well and create a ton of offspring. Godspeed frogs!
>>
No. 16634
>>16633
I think the frog lives surely longer than hishurr its conspecifics in wildlife.
>>
No. 16636
>>16633
15 apparently. And while the major issue with amphibians atm may be a type of parasitic fungus, just reading the species extinction page makes me think Prince Charles was right, it would be nice to be reincarnated as a highly lethal virus to deal with the human population, however I would also hope that I'd wipe out the royal family along with culling the human herd.

How difficult do you think it would be to create a very long lasting gene bank to try and recreate species from clones?
>>
No. 16641
So May's Brexit deal has been rejected by the British parliament. Nobody seems to know what comes next.
>>
No. 16642
>>16641
From wat I hared, there will be vote of nonconfidence for May.
>>
No. 16644
>>16636
>a highly lethal virus to deal with the human population would be nice
I feel the same. Especially when reading another story about another species of animals being close to extinction because of human doing. I was always a fan of that idea in Twelve Monkeys. And I still have some hope that there is that one genetic engineer out there who also holds it dearly.
>>
No. 16645
>>16641
>>Nobody seems to know what comes next
From what I have read it should be more likely that they will now remain instead of exiting without an agreement.

>>16642
I feel pity for her. Honestly. She never really had a chance. It was clear from the start that the EU would not make any concessions in favour of Britain in the negotiations. And she herself had not even supported the Brexit. But she always said that retreating from the decision to leave the EU would mean to betray the voters and she wasn't gonna do it. That I liked.
>>
No. 16656
151 kB, 839 × 1199
>>16641
Corbyn will table a no confidence motion and parliamentary arithmetic requires Tory defectors and/or DUP to quit the supply agreement.

-The Tories just had a leadership challenge that May smashed.
-There is a 75% chance Sinn Féin would become the largest party in NI were general election held tomorrow.

You could argue that 'no deal' Tory MPs might fancy their chances of finding a leader to replace May but they don't have anyone viable. So nothing happens and in a minimum of three weeks we'll have a new vote on the Withdrawal Agreement.
>>
No. 16657
>>16656
But you do have an alternative though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJzW_gFoXR0
>>
No. 16659
>>16656
>>16657

What I don't get is what do torries and other antiEU Brits even want? They don't want a "no deal brexit", after 2 years of negotiations they decide they also don't want a Brexit deal but they also don't want to stay in the EU.

I mean..., what the hell do they even want?
>>
No. 16664
>>16659
i have no idea what may, johnson, farage, rees-mogg, corbyn and the likes actually want, but their voters on dailymail apparently believe that they are better off without an exit deal, unless brussels bows before all their special snowflake demands. daily mail posters still act entitled like cameron et al. used to when britain was an eu member still. like, getting all advantages the eu offers for free plus additional privileges, rebates and bonuses they believe they are entitled to - all without britain taking any responsibility and without committing to standards eu members agreed upon.
that is completely deluded and actually quite nasty behaviour, to be honest. it's getting annoying too, so i'd say let them have their hard exit and all the shit it entails, if that's what they desire. i'm not a politician though.
>>
No. 16667 Kontra
So this is old news and isnt actually that relevant but I found this interesting tidbit while looking around different religious movements and foundation backers/nonprofits/NGO whatever
https://www.digitalshadows.com/blog-and-research/anonymous-poland-not-your-typical-hacktivist-group/
So at first I thought "ayyy is 'anon' actually even still around" but then looking at it their other branches involved world anti doping agency and Ukrainian ministry. Which made me think for how long has Russia been attempting to puppeteer things like Anonymous or hacktivists groups? Although this looks like a very sloppy job since they left their Signature in that type of Twitter activity.

What front groups is Russia using right now to hack things? Just how many dormant dummy accounts and sock puppets do you think Russia has across all media platforms?
>>
No. 16767
https://belsat.eu/en/news/we-need-union-state-integration-as-russian-is-state-language-in-belarus-envoy/

Last months there were some big happenings in Russia-Belarus relations, Russia wants greater political integration at the expense of power of Lukashenko, local dictator. Half of Belarusian exports and imports come from/into Russia, Belarus is already highly dependant on its neighbor and Russia often provides the Belarusian government with favorable trade deals.

I found this quote
>And it is very important for the two brotherly Slavic countries that have common territory, a common history and culture, a common language. Let me remind you that Belarus is the only country in the world where Russian, on par with the national Belarusian language, is a state language. We really appreciate it and believe that the Union State format comes up to the best expectations of our citizens
very interesting, because Russia and Putin himself before repeteadly pushed Ukrainian officials for acceptance of Russian language as the second state language. I think this is a good sign that Ukrainian remained the only official language during the rule of pro-Russian government, even though half of the country or even more speaks Russian, it shows that Ukrainian identity isn't dead.
Of course, after 2014 even talking about such thing is unthinkable and now the question of adopting Russian as the state language has been resolved for the next century.

>>16667
Russia is not so rich and populated to spend enough money to sufficiently influence people outside of post-Soviets countries. Obviously sites like Russia Today or Sputnik are funded by the government and are the propaganda mouthpiece, but few have heard of them outside of imageboards. If Westerners became so afraid of the Russian influence, then what is China capable of?

I think Dems greatly exaggerate the Russian power and just try to blame somebody for the 2016 election, it's hard to accept your failures and that half of the country is stupid enough to elect for president demagogue and one of the most incompetent leaders in the country's history.
>>
No. 16792
10 kB, 416 × 437
>'We will miss you' - Germany pleads with the British to stay in EU

>German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s protege appealed to the British on Friday to stay in the European Union, saying her compatriots had not forgotten how Britain welcomed Germany back as a sovereign nation after World War Two. Conservative leader Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, who succeeded Merkel as leader of the Christian Democrats, joined German politicians, industrialists and artists in a last-minute plea to Britons as the clock ticks down to Brexit in 70 days.

>“Without your great nation, this continent would not be what it is today,” they said in the letter, which was published in The Times newspaper. “After the horrors of the Second World War, Britain did not give up on us. It has welcomed Germany back as a sovereign nation and a European power.”

>Besides war and peace, they outlined some of the more quirky qualities which they said they would miss if Britain left the club it joined in 1973. “We would miss the legendary British black humour and going to the pub after work hours to drink an ale. We would miss tea with milk and driving on the left-hand side of the road. And we would miss seeing the panto at Christmas. But more than anything else, we would miss the British people — our friends across the Channel,” they said.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-letter/we-will-miss-you-germany-pleads-with-the-british-to-stay-in-eu-idUKKCN1PC0P9

I must admit it made me blush this morning.

>>16659
Sir you are mistaken, if the Tories agreed on Brexit this would already be done and dusted. If Labour had a united plan...well, it wouldn't be the labour party. Just enjoy the Parliamentary shouting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjrEpFi3QOE

>>16767
I've found the whole Belarus annexation thing very strange. The country is useful to everyone in its present anomalous state as a message carrier but now we see the beginnings of deepening diplomatic links with the US (recently the cap on US diplomats was raised). I suppose the only thing that must matter to the Russian government is that Putin looks strong even at the cost of one of her only remaining allies.
>>
No. 16796
>>16792
Just for your information, Belsat is a TV channel backed by Polish government.
Despite all the care Schengen visa costs 60 euro, for example.
It doesn't help much the EU-Belarus relationship. But they don't seem to care about such issues except the times when Russia says it wants to have Belarus more dependent on Russia :^)
>>
No. 16798
>>16792
Do you pay these people just so that they have a place to talk shit about one another 24/7?
Honestly, I've never in my life have seen anything resembling constructive criticism coming out of that chamber, no matter which right honourable member of the house is speaking.
It's always:
>Epic banter
>Screaming "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY"
>Avoiding the issue only to have epic banter in return
>Epic banter is followed by "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY"
I'm honestly baffled.
>>
No. 16799
32 kB, 634 × 400
>>16798
>Do you pay these people just so that they have a place to talk shit about one another 24/7?

Well, they're politicians so sometimes they do it visiting factories and schools :^)

But the image people get of Parliament is grossly inaccurate. The No Confidence Motion was never going to pass and everyone knew it so politicians were played for the voters. Similarly PMQs is a back and forth of quips these days in an informal game of making facebook videos - hence why every opposition questions boils down to "may I ask the Prime Minister why she's so shit?" and every Tory question is various shades of arse-lickery.

If you want to see our politicians working then watch Parliament during normal days or go see the House of Lords when they're not wanking to the sounds of their own voices.
>>
No. 16800 Kontra
>>16796
>It doesn't help much the EU-Belarus relationship. But they don't seem to care about such issues except the times when Russia says it wants to have Belarus more dependent on Russia :^)

Belarus just doesn't know how to play the game properly. You start by flirting with the west for money and trade but once they start taking you for granted you flirt with Russia who likes to give presents -but quickly you go back to flirting with the west once Russia demands political alignment. Rinse, repeat.

These days it's harder because the IMF is weary of handing out unlimited credit cards but that is easily solved by throwing China into the mix. If you specifically want to get EU monies as an individual then make some covert NGO making road signs for gays and watch the donations roll in.
>>
No. 16801
>>16799
>may I ask the Prime Minister why she's so shit?
I found this way more funny than I should have.
It's just that you guys seem to have an exceptionally lively parliament culture.
I don't remember ever having funny thing happening in the Hungarian parliament. The only thing that came close to "banter" was when Orbán said "Jobbik turned into a party full of tools". And even then, that was just throwing shit and only funny because he used the slang term "csicska" to say "tool" (As in, "You are a fucking tool, Billy")

>go see the House of Lords
Judging by the first few minutes, this seems civilized. They aren't overly loud, they speak very fine English and they call each other "Lord" and "my noble friend".
The house of commons looks like, well, a house full of commoners compared to this.
>>
No. 16803
123 kB, 800 × 450
>>16801
Smells like Cavalier in here.
>>
No. 16808
>>16803
I watched a relatively short debate and it was sensible and calm.
This is what politics should look like.
>>
No. 16812
58 kB, 474 × 641
>>16800
>Belarus just doesn't know how to play the game properly. You start by flirting with the west for money and trade but once they start taking you for granted you flirt with Russia who likes to give presents -but quickly you go back to flirting with the west once Russia demands political alignment. Rinse, repeat.
See he gets it. Listen to wisdom of the perfidious sea monster, my gentle potato. Just try not to get invaded and split apart doing it.
>>
No. 16842
150 kB, 1260 × 712
4,9 MB, 1047 × 3602
2,6 MB, 640 × 360, 0:25
Meanwhile full madness in France and widely censorship in most European mass-media.
>>
No. 16843
>>16801
>I don't remember ever having funny thing happening in the Hungarian parliament.
Some speeches of Kuncze was written by Geszti back then, were some biting comments against Fidesz. Was a talk about how the Fidesz was putting together a shadow ministry preparing for the change in govt. And Kuncze said (kinda paraphrase, can't remember exactly):
"Az árnyékkormány miniszterei árnyékminiszterek. Az árnyékminiszterek miniszterelnöke árnyékiminiszterelnök. Az árnyékminiszterelnök széke az árnyékszék."
>>
No. 16844
68 kB, 443 × 600
>>16843
>Az árnyékminiszterelnök széke az árnyékszék.
>>
No. 16845
>>16842
It really is a poor display, to say it as nice as possible, that our media only shows so little of what is happening there. But it is obvious why.
>>
No. 16846
>>16842
The thing I like about France is that not only are they willing to do this in the first place, but this sort of behavior is only likely to make them more incensed. Sadly we abandoned our roots long ago and now we just have a pathetic and servile Germanic population where rioting over price hikes wouldn't even occur to them.
>>
No. 16850
>>16801
>Judging by the first few minutes, this seems civilized. They aren't overly loud, they speak very fine English and they call each other "Lord" and "my noble friend".

Well, the House of Lords is the chamber reserved for this kind of professional scrutiny akin to senates in other countries. Members aren't selected by public election so they don't have to put on a show and to a degree this helps Commons sustain its lively culture. I think you can guess that an unelected chamber of members-for-life has its own problems though.

In one of those strange twists America went the other way on professionalism but I don't think anyone could argue they get more done or hold a more high-brow political culture.

>The house of commons looks like, well, a house full of commoners compared to this.

Little known fact: The Houses of Parliament deeply dislike one-another and in correspondence you will have them refer to one another as 'the other place' like EC and Kohl.
>>
No. 16855
>>16850
>I think you can guess that an unelected chamber of members-for-life has its own problems though.
Honestly, having a legislative body that isn't at the whim of the average IQ89 dullard seems pretty good. It also means that they can plan ahead and not just for timespan of 4-5 years. (So between election cycles.)
>>
No. 16857
>>16850
That feel when our Labor Party used to be kind of ebin and maneuvered themselves into a majority in the House of Lords equivalent and then dissolved it :-DDD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland_Legislative_Council
>>
No. 16860
>>16767
Blah blah. If something is happening, than why am i sitting at home and not in a potato field with a gun? Luka just has balls to stay in power. If something would threaten his power status he would do radical things without remorse.
>>16792
>I've found the whole Belarus annexation thing very strange.
Because it's so needed political drama for russia, ukraine and belarus. Now look how everyone will go out of this with rising rating. You just don't get the concept of show that our eastern european politics embraced so much.
Anyway it wasn't about annexation, belsat made it so. It was about the same tariffs on oil and our government taking money from russian oligarchs.
>>16800
Luka is known for flirting on two sides.
>>
No. 16861
150 kB, 825 × 1024
>>16855
>having a legislative body that isn't at the whim of the average IQ89 dullard seems pretty good.

That has unsurprisingly been the overwhelming consensus in the HoL as well. The problem with that position though is in who exactly should be made a peer in the Lords if not elected officials:

-Pre-1958 it was predominantly heredity peers where you got a seat because a distant ancestor won 1066 and passed it down to like the family silverware. Traditionally the HoL was therefore a body representing the conservative interests of the landed gentry against the middle/merchant class in Commons. As you can imagine this doesn't sit well in a modern democracy and the House of Commons became the superior body following the Parliament Acts as some toffs gents interfering with democratically elected programs nearly broke the country. Even if you don't like democratically elected governments you can see the inherent bias towards protecting the interests of the landed gentry and aristocrats are not exactly all philosopher kings. Less than ideal when you're getting Labour governments.

-Post-1999 the majority of Lords are life peers appointed by whatever PM is in power when a seat is vacant (or one is created if you have the cash/favours). This has led to all sorts of bollocks with good boys getting a nice retirement in a job they can't be fired from unless they act criminally stupid. The House of Lords is currently larger than the House of Commons as an vivid illustration and reducing numbers is nigh on impossible because peers close ranks fearing their own cushy jobs. There is the argument that someone with a lifetime of political experience is a great asset for the HoL but it's a very American way of doing business if the PM chooses peers and it certainly doesn't make them neutral.

-Yesterday you might have watched the debate in HoL suggesting that they could be reconstituted to represent particular communities i.e. reserved seats for Scot-Wales-NI. That's some lefty nonsense if you ask me but such is the nature of modern identity politics. Also citizens assemblies are getting popular again because it seems to have worked in The Republic of Ireland (https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/01/05/a-jury-of-peers/) so there is that too but good luck getting Parliament to agree to that.

Of course you can look at all this from a higher plan of existence and realise it's a irrelevant when the HoL can only delay a bills passage and is more a chamber where the majority of committees take place. Sure the HoLs blocking a bill has a pretty devastating impact but so does completely ignoring any given committees published advice. Why worry when we can just ignore the problem and apply duct-tape solutions whenever a crisis arises? It's worked for 800 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFDvMiBKeM

>>16857
>Not absolutely stuffing the chamber with the lads

It's a wonder socialism ever got started when you think about it.
>>
No. 16862
861 kB, 2475 × 1772
>>16861
Well I did say only kind of ebin. It also makes me wonder if in the event that you could maneuver into a majoriry in both houses, whether it sets precedent that you could vote to dissolve the state government as a whole.
>>
No. 16877
55 kB, 1200 × 630
German Greens doubled their results in the election to European Parliament comparing to 2014. It's nice to see that somebody cares about nature and global climate, because in Ukraine we got no such parties in our parliament. But our behavior is dictated by the conditions in which we grew up, not some kind of mystical "soul" rooted in our body at birth. It's only logical that the impoverished inhabitants of underdeveloped countries are more reluctant to trade material benefits for the future. Even Americans, being the most prosperous nation on the Earth among countries with population above 10mln, manifested their reactionary desires in electing Trump and withdrawing from the Paris Agreement. If people with enormous access to goods don't want to give up a bit of their material privileges for the good of the world, then what could you expect from citizens of China or India?

I couldn't forget Trump's words about that agreement, how it made American economy uncompetitive, almost like if the US aren't the king of the hill already.
>>
No. 16879
>>16877
>It's nice to see that somebody cares about nature and global climate

The greens shifted to being a party for 30+ people who live in the inner urban districts and are on the wealthier end of the spectrum. SUV and organic food.

It's hearsay but the greens and their success in Bavaria was linked to these people who want a conservative alternative to the CDU and ADF afaik.
>>
No. 16880
>>16877
>German Greens doubled their results in the election to European Parliament comparing to 2014.

But EU Parliament election won't happen until March?
>>
No. 16881
>>16880
This is a poll.
>>
No. 16896
>>16877
I don't think that's actually an accurate perspective on us. We also don't want to live in a polluted Norilsk tier shithole. Our primary problem is that the country is largely run by and for oligarchs who don't give a shit about pollution because they often dont shit where they eat, they shit where we eat and enough stupid fucking bydlo buy up the propaganda. Like most environmental regulations do not cost the average person a shred of comfort. The only people they really strongly impact are our oligarchs, who are incensed that anyone would have the audacity to tell them flaming PCB filled rivers, lead laced paint and drinking water, asbestos in residents, and flaming tap water and artificial earthquakes are are anything but patriotic. They don't care because they live in a separate universe from us. Hell their kids don't ever even go to school or interact with the rest of us so they don't even care if we get shot in class.

The only other strange thing are the retard Evangelicals, who basically have little to do with Christian values. I realized part of why the oil lobby has such power is the very idea of oil coming from dinosaur bones flies in the face of young earth creationism, who are apparently the exact same fucking idiots who genuinely seem to believe the earth is flat. Somehow they are profoundly anti-environment too, but like most things it is stupid bydlo easily misled by the oligarchs who own everything, like for example Trump and the rest of his establishment cronies. This is a guy who tried to convince people that California doesn't have a drought, and tried to blame environmental protections and government. This is purely because he was butthurt at being charged such a high water bill for his stupid LA golf course.
>>
No. 16897
>>16896
>Our primary problem is that the country is largely run by and for oligarchs who don't give a shit about pollution because they often dont shit where they eat, they shit where we eat and enough stupid fucking bydlo buy up the propaganda
Соме то ме, му fгiепd
>>
No. 16934
>News title: Maria Sharapova has lost due to the loss of contraception concetration
Wonder how I could misread it like that.
>>
No. 16957
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/01/21/leaked-audio-records-allegedly-show-how-oleg-deripaska-s-associates-plotted-the-arrest-of-the-sex-trainers-who-claimed-to-have-russiagate-dirt-on-him

This is a really long story and I don't know how to tell it without details.
Deripaska, Russian oligarch, and I suppose a lot more foreigners who follow American news know about him after the Trump administration lifted sanctions on his company, hired 7 seven prostitutes for him and his friends in 2018. The dumbest of the prostitutes filmed Deripaska and incidentally filmed one of the Russian high-ranking officials and showed the videos and pictures on Instagram + she made a book named along the lines of "How to become a golddigger and a mistress of an oligarch" where she described her life with totally-not-Deripaska and other rich persons. Navalny noticed that and made a video about her, a month later she was jailed in Thailand for prostitution. She was released a month ago and she flew to her home in Belarus, but the Russian police detained on her transfer flight. Someone from the Russian counter-intelligence service leaked the Deripaska's phone tapes to Navalny and it's clearly that Deripaska was behind the arrest of the prostitute in Thailand, so it's only logical that her arrest in Russia is also politically motivated.

What is most interesting is how Navalny got access to these tapes? It's likely that Deripaska has opponents in Russian intelligence and there's some kind of internal power struggle going on in the Kremlin.
>>
No. 16964
>>16957
Ohh so that was the backstory on why she was arrested. Jesus it's like high politics is basically just a bunch of the worst backstabbing retards from high school.
> after the Trump administration lifted sanctions on his company, hired 7 seven prostitutes for him and his
Wait I'm confused, who hired the hookers? Trump? Or the oligarch?

>arrest of the prostitute in Thailand,
See now this is what confused me. How were they even able to manage that? I was under the impression that Thailand in general had no real or very loose extradition treaties. That's also where the Saudi girl was fleeing to to escape from her shitty Wahhabi family.
>>
No. 16971
>>16964
Deripaska hired the hookers. I just commented on what made Deripaska infamous in the West. Of course they are backstabbing retards. Western Europeans have very low opinion of Slavs in general, but if Slavs are the orcs, then our elites are goddamn hobgoblins raping and pillaging wherever they go. Putin, Poroshenko, Deripaska, Abramovich, Berezovsky, etc, all of the elites gained their power during the bloody confrontation in the 90s, when every businessman participated in illegal activities one way or another. Both poor and rich families were involved in a racket, theft or smuggling, and there's no way that you could get out of the 90s rich and powerful and not get your hands dirty. What happens to these people if they get bullied by Putin? They simply run to the Western resorts, leaving behind a trail of millions of dead post-Soviet people who died because of total poverty and corruption caused by scumbags like Deripaska. What happens to them if they get bullied by the West? They simply strengthen their relations with Putin and begin to suck blood from Russians even stronger thanks to the state contracts and monopolies. In the end, these people never lose.
>>
No. 16975
13 kB, 480 × 360
>>16971
>hobgoblin
Wouldn't that instead make dem da biggest, most stompinest orks around?

Y'know, it's a really sad thing what that all turned into, especially because I often find faint echoes of ourselves in the Russian revolution but look how that turned up. Even worse, it just seems like first Russia traded Tsars for a bunch of communist psychopathic scumbags literally murdering and torturing half the country but at least S-P-U-T-N-I-K, followed by a bunch of gangsters who earnestly should have been sent to gulag but now looting the country and ensuring Russia will never again have any real prestige. I am not saying Communism is the answer, but I cannot help but think their crash entry into Capitalism was a massive step back. And now whole of East seems to basically just be looted by a bunch of thieves, except they can't even have the decency to keep that money in Slavic hands.
>>
No. 16978
>>16975
Stalin's rule actually result of all of this. Stalin not thiked about what will happen after him that much and not finished his plans eather - but his tyrranic system builded on one of the most powerfull (after WW2) countries in the world if not most powerfull or second powerfull after US still exist. Russia died long time ago - currently it rotten corpse of Stalin's state that still can not rotten compleatly because embalmed like Lenin's corpse.

>but think their crash entry into Capitalism was a massive step back
problem is that regimes kind of changed, but overall post-USSR still keep worst part of post-stalin system without it's positive sides.Flags changed, people and mentality - mostly not. Just former soviet g-mans relised that without ideology thay now can do anything now - mass orgonised criminal groups, gang-style goverments, open kills, prison law as main style of rule and life etc.
>>
No. 16991
2,4 MB, 360 × 360, 0:45
lol, USA
>>
No. 16992
This incident in DC concerning the high school boys and the Native American man really makes me scratch my head. Did people really spend all weekend talking about this shit on social media? It's so banal and dumb I can't imagine having a political opinion about it.
>>
No. 16993
>>16991
the streets will flow with rivers of blood come the second revolution

>>16992
It hits on multiple things. Disrespect for one's elders is one of them. Concept of nativism and hurr immigrants is another (which if anything also shows why letting a bunch of trashy immigrants in is a bad idea to begin with because then you get people like that after genociding your people). But really I think it's just however dumb bydlo think. I'll scroll by the news feed and be genuinely baffled by some of the stupid shit, like some athlete posting about "gettin dat Jewish money" in reference to a rap song, or some shit about black face, or idk why.

Really what I want to happen is for people like trumptards/stormfaggots and the hyper politically correct to mutually annihilate each other. Sadly all they do is whine about what butthurted them in the last 5 minutes online, which is fucking everything. I sincerely want both these groups to murder each other until none of them are left, but then again I want lots of nice things I cannot have.
>>
No. 17393
Does anyone have good sources to read about Venezuela? I can't trust mainstream Anglo media when it comes to regimes targeted for change, but the alternatives all seem to be blinded by interest or idealism in favor of Maduro, and they're no better.

My reading of the last 20 years in Venezuela there is that the Bolivarians had good intentions, but they have no knowledge on how to run a country, which is the main cause of Venezuela's current problems. The opposition is almost certainly in the service of the vampiric aristocrat class that has plagued Latin America since it became Latin, and I can see them overturning everything good that the Bolivarians accomplished along with the bad, but at this point almost anything short of open civil war would be better.

I'm 80% confident in this appraisal, but I have uncertainty in regard to the competence and current integrity of the Bolivarian government, and just about everything in regard to the opposition. I can read Spanish if you don't have English sources.
>>
No. 17395
367 kB, 680 × 505
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/23/an-anti-vaccination-hotspot-near-portland-suffers-public-health-emergency-over-measles/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e99eb821b077

Tinfoil-hats are getting targeted by Measels for wearing tinfoil-hats.

Incubation time is two whole weaks. Fingers are crossed for the children. Hope it takes a few adults six feet under to teach a lesson.
>>
No. 17396
>>
No. 17398
146 kB, 768 × 1152
Dear Ernst,

I can strongly advise to check nature.com every few days. They have great news articles related to science. Perhaps the best popular science articles out there.

For example:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00210-0
How a rise in unemployment leads to less deaths in a population.

Thank you for your attention.
>>
No. 17402
Well this is getting increasingly Orwellian
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/technology/youtube-conspiracy-theory-videos.html
That's what you get for relying on "muh free markets". It effectively gives the power of government censorship over to corporations.

>>17398
I really need to set something like that as my homepage. Or Discover or Popular Mechanics or something. It'd be nice if there were also good places for discussions, which there likely are but I'm not aware of them.
>>
No. 17407
>>17402
>That's what you get for relying on "muh free markets". It effectively gives the power of government censorship over to corporations.

Th-that's not what the article suggests...

>YouTube and other powerful technology platforms have faced rising criticism for failing to police the content that users post.
>YouTube’s recommendation engine has been denounced for pushing users to troubling content even when they showed little interest in such videos. It has also been blamed for widening the political divide in the country, pushing already partisan viewers to more extreme points of view.

People did wrong things and it's got the establishment butthurt so they're cracking down on everything. Tech companies are caving because butthurt governments make butthurt laws if you don't do the right self-regulation.

Go ahead cheer-leading daddy state though; I'm sure a video service or imageboard run by a government agency will be a laugh.
>>
No. 17411
>>17407
The internet itself was a government and academic thing originally. I don't like big government either but handing our power to corporations is even worse. They have far less transparency, oversight, regulations, and general limits on power than government does. Like if government tries to spy on us or starts censoring speech it will immediate kick off a legal shitstorm. The whole reason why govt goes through third party contractors is partly to dodge that sort of problem with say PRISM and the various NSA/CIA/FBI programs. You actually need things like court orders and have to jump through all kinds of legal hoops to do a lot of things as govt that you simply don't as a company, which in many cases acts as an arm of the state anyway.

Frankly I wish we had EU level protections here. It may not yet be as bad as Russia, but it's still a corrupt oligarchy where state and corporation is a revolving door between the same exact people.
>>
No. 17515
>>17402
I've noticed for a long time that YouTube recommendations lead you down a rabbithole of ever-increasing stupidity if you're not extremely careful about what videos you allow to become part of your watch history.

Them finally starting to apply different rules than just what drives maximum clicks is a good thing.
>>
No. 17518
>>17515
It's turned to complete crap for a while so I struggled with it for a while but then started using an addon called DF Tube * which allows you to block all those elements as to avoid getting your attention hijacked for some stupid bullshit. You might think initially you'd be missing out on all the good videos that it might suggest you but I found that feeling subsides quickly.

Would recommend to anyone that values his time.

* https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/df-tube-distraction-free/mjdepdfccjgcndkmemponafgioodelna
>>
No. 17522
>>17515
The problem is they're not cleaning any of that up at all.There's tons of absolute trash on yt and absolutely none of it is going to be impacted by this. You know exactly what I mean like those stupid horrible minimum effort photoshop of a spider onto a house "you wont believe this" usual clickbait. Or the millions and millions of retards and attention whores. At least some conspiracy stuff can be unintentionally funny, and rarely even informative. All this is going to do is further bury information legitimate or not while the worst trash continues rising to the top.
>>
No. 17540
>>17411
>I don't like big government either but handing our power to corporations is even worse

As far as big projects like youtube go there isn't much of a choice. The whole platform is a loss maker and will likely only get worse in that regard as the "social influencer" market crashes. You could argue that big websites are now quasi-utilities thanks to the embedding of technology but exactly what that entails is uncertain when a plethora of exceptions exist much like television. Certainly in Europe it's just led to moronic demands and fines because politicians don't understand technology.

I can't imagine the BBC running youtube properly and just today a politician here called for a social media ban if more isn't done to protect idiots from themselves: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47019912

>Like if government tries to spy on us or starts censoring speech it will immediate kick off a legal shitstorm

You know full well the game is more complicated than this. Regardless of who is in charge they will be leaned on to censor content and big organisations (private or not) inevitably will cave. To take a recent example you won't find any mention of the yellow vest protests outside of France because it is subject to a category D notice on reporting just as the Macron dossier was never reported on the BBC at the time of his election to conform with French law.

>>17515
I struggle to see how this is even going to work when there is no feasible way a human can rate every video. Youtube has an algorithm on recommendations and whatever the supercomputer says is right you will see.

...Although maybe it achieved sentience awhile back and is now intentionally stunting human society for it's own twisted ends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JlxuQ7tPgQ
>>
No. 17565
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd3OHfCIbE8

I just found the title of the video too funny to not share.
>>
No. 17615
325 kB, 1200 × 809
2,9 MB, 640 × 352, 1:10
Meanwhile in Russia...
>>
No. 17634
61 kB, 819 × 516
>>17615
Kam schon viel zu schnell rein. Arme Kuh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AwKMjt_LcY
>>
No. 17691
>>17615
Haha it not far from me. Yeah, when you force crew to land on such field from first try this is the result
Also I wonder how was missed news week ago when 2 military jets crashed into each other in far east
>>
No. 17696
15 kB, 500 × 372
https://news.sky.com/story/denmark-builds-border-fence-to-keep-german-pigs-out-amid-african-swine-fever-fears-11620391

Denmark just goes and builds THE WALL to keep German pigs OUT. Government shutdown not necessary, no thank you
>>
No. 17701
>>17696
Pigs must be a euphemism here. The animals are usually not kept running around freely. If the Danish had tried to excuse this wall being about sheep, it would have been somewhat more believable.
>>
No. 17707
>>17701
I also didn't realize that wild boars actually still existed in Western Europe. Although I am aware there was some kind of swine fever that Ukrainians had blamed on Russian биотерроризма
>>
No. 17709
>>17707
They exist, but that is far away from the danish wall.
>>
No. 17712
>>17707
There are wild boars out there. Even wolves.
Sometimes the boars terrorise villages and shit.
If you don't live in bumfuck nowhere, you won't ever meet any wild animals besides swans, ducks, pigeons and other assorted small birds that can tolerate visiting a city.
>>
No. 17713
>>17696
The only correct solution to the G*rman question. Should have been done century ago.
>>
No. 17714
>>17707
https://youtu.be/kXwpjdDJk-o?t=23

They are reclaiming the land like in Princess Mononoke, looks pretty epic with the whole sounder rampaging through a city.
>>
No. 17716
655 kB, 3333 × 2365
>>17713
Actually the French did try exactly that literally a century ago. It didn't work, partly because of allowing that useless country known as Belgium to exist without building a fence there as well. The question is: could the wall have worked if France simply annexed the Walloons and then built their wall all the way to the Atlantic?
>>
No. 17721
134 kB, 900 × 600
>>17696

It seems Denmark has similar blinkered attitude towards Germany as Slovenians have towards us.
>>
No. 17722
96 kB, 552 × 832
1006 kB, 1572 × 896
422 kB, 1920 × 1299
302 kB, 1200 × 800
>>17707
I don't know even....
>>
No. 17723
>>17721
Everybody is trying to fence and seal the southern borders off to discourage the middle easterners from trekking through their countries.
>>
No. 17724
>>17723

So they say...
>>
No. 17728
>>17724
And so I believe because I just really don't want to think about it.
>>
No. 17736
>>17712
Eh, I live at the edge of a city with >100k inhabitants and I ran across a wild boars nest of younglings on one of my early morning walks. When I realized it, I slowly backed away and took another route.
If our hunters weren't such lazy fucks, these beasts wouldn't be much of a thing.
>>
No. 17737
>>17736
That's probably because eco-freaks will immediately stink everywhere with their "muh animals, muh humanism" if you start shooting the animals, even the dangerous ones. The nature protection is a good thing in and of itself, but sometimes it just gets ridiculous. Here, for example, if you kill an animal in any way without having a hunting license or out of hunting season, you have to pay a fuckhuge fine, often several times bigger than an average Belarusian's wage. That is, even if you accidentally hit an animal with your car and it dies, there is a possiblity that you'll be fined anyway. Now, the logic behind that law is understandable, it is aimed against smart-ass poachers making excuses like, "I dunno nuthin' 'bout this dead elk, mr. militiaman, I jus' happen to hit it with mah car", and officials claim that you will not be found guilty if you didn't hit the animal deliberately, but still a lot of people prefer just to flee the scene, because nobody would bother to investigate the death of some animal seriously, the witnesses are unlikely to snitch on you and it's cheaper to repair your car yourself instead of making an insurance claim and paying a fine.
>>
No. 17738
>>17736
>>17737
That's not really true. Boars making little boars like rabbits. Here they are everywhere I would bet even the edge of Budapest is seeing many. They are hunted by the tens of thousands, still lot of boars, too few hunters.
>>
No. 17740
>>17737
How is that a bad thing?
>>
No. 17741
>>17737
We have drive huntings for boars every season.
I think it's just a natural problem that they reproduce like rabbits, as allready mentioned.
>>
No. 17742
>>17740
How is what a bad thing? Huge fines on innocent people? Laws that don't work properly? Do I really have to explain that?
>>
No. 17743
>>17741
Imagine how many sausages can be made!
>>17742
Laws do work. But only for those, who make these laws :^)
>>
No. 17746
12 kB, 275 × 183
>>17743
>>17738
I don't want sausages. What I immediately thought hearing about those thousands of wild boars, were Asterix and Obelix comics and the festivity they had at the end of every book. I always wanted to eat a wild boar in the way Obelix does. I am getting very hungry. Now all I need is a gun and a plane ticket to Budapest.
>>
No. 17749
>>17737
You are wrong, there is literally no opposition to hunting boars here. The city is just not paying any hunters. Hunters are paid by the local farmers currently because a flog of boars will ruin several entire fields of cabbage/carrots/etc in one night.
>>
No. 17750
>>17746
Just go to Rheinland-Pfalz, Niedersachsen or Bayern if you want to hunt boars. If you can't hunt yourself, just talk to any butcher in the region and ask for a boar or half of one during next hunting season. It's your best bet to get your hands on really good meat for rediculously low prices. Last year I got two kilos of wild boar meat for free, a gift from my local butcher because I visit regularly.
>>
No. 17751
>>17750
>he gets his meat for free
Did I miss how Germoney achieved communism?
>>
No. 17752
>>17751
I once got Boar-Sausages for free
t. other

It's called village gommunism
>>
No. 17754
>>17751
It's just people being nice to each other. If you want, you can quantify it as marketing: Become a regular customer and you eventually get occasional gifts.
Those things won't happen to you in supermarkets, of course.
>>
No. 17756
>>17754
>Become a regular customer and you eventually get occasional gifts.
That is just what customer retention schemes are. And most supermarkets have those. They do usually not simply give you meat for free though, but other stuff like knives or pots and pans for cheap.
>>
No. 17757
>>17742
How is it a bad thing that nature is being protected or that wildlife can roam around? One of the most depressing things ever about urban living is the massive extinction zones for every single thing except pigeons, starlings, rats, and cockroaches.
>huge fines
I wish we had that, considering stupid bydlo assholes here have a habit of intentionally steering into things like turtles on the side of the road. I have no problem with penalizing dumb bydlo for being dumb bydlo.
>>
No. 17758
>>17752
Communism actually works at the village level. Most ideologies and economies have a problem because of scale. Direct democracy also works much much better at the village scale. This is because it is still human and natural scale. Iirc the whole premise of communism began with this and that is what the soviets basically were.
>>
No. 17762
>>17757
>wildlife can roam around
One of the reasons that humans live in communities like villages and towns is because it's easier to defend themselves against the nature this way. If "wildlife roams around", that means your community fucked up somewhere and its members are in danger. But hey, if you enjoy being in harmony with the nature so much, you're always welcome to go live in the wild by yourself. This way you will be able to frolic with abandon among the vibrant wildlife 24/7.

And when I was talking about fines, I referred specifically to fines on innocent people who hit some dumb beast while they were driving. We don't have many rednecks running animals over with their pickup trucks for shits and giggles.
>>
No. 17764
234 kB, 340 × 557
>>17738
Oh fug, in recent years boar populations have become established in the UK for the first time since the Middle Ages. Maybe this explains the boorish noises being made here of late.

History Aside: Charles I tried to reintroduce Boars but they were all slaughtered during the Civil War. I bet there is a correlation between a strong executive branch and boar populations

>>17743
>Laws do work. But only for those, who make these laws :^)

Boars have secretly taken over Belarus?

>>17758
>Communism actually works at the village level.

No. Systems work when the components are good but decentralisation certainly doesn't lead to this and the lack of oversight can make bad things run riot.

t.Soviet history, tribal organisation and hippie communes

>>17762
We have the same problem with badgers here. Certain populations carry TB to cattle but English cull attempts get spoiled because MC city folk sabotage traps.
>>
No. 17767
>>17764
>Soviet history,
That is at the imperial level
> tribal organisation and hippie communes
They do work in fact we are biologically hardwired to help make them work. The problems occur with virtually all systems once you begin scaling them towards the national and then imperial levels.
>>
No. 17769
>>17764
>Boars have secretly taken over Belarus?
Heh, nah. More like pigs.

Seriously though, laws like that leave quite a lot of opportunities for law enforcement agencies' employees to make some money. "Well, citizen, it's pretty clear that you hit that deer with murderous intent. I have to report you, and you will have to pay a fine of two thousand rubles. OR you could pay only two hundred rubles, and I won't have to report you at all. The choice is yours". So the sum of the fine can depend on such factors as militiaman's salary, his mood, whether he likes your face, your tone and the color of your socks or not, and whether his deparment met the monthly crime fighting quota or not.
>>
No. 17771
17,4 MB, 1280 × 720, 2:53
>>17746
Many foreigners come to shoot whatever.
For the amount of Italian hunters they are almost meme-tier. Not sure how much they pay. I seem to remember articles about the shady side of the economy of game hunting, some numbers didn't add up or something, so it's the usual. I also remember another article where maybe animal right activists inquired a minister or another about a case when hundreds of boars were fenced off and shot on one sitting, the ethical side and all that. Made me thinking how they shoot the tens of thousands of boars anyway? That's how. Not an unique case I'd say.

Vid related not boars but still nice.
And we have bears again. Last year was some panic a few of them visiting towns.
>>
No. 17773
>>17769
Okay let's put it this way: say there were no fine. What do you have against wildlife?
>>
No. 17776
>>17767
>That is at the imperial level

Imperial inherently implies local autonomy, the very name requires subdivisions. Kolkhoz had targets but administrative membership determined how bad it was and various dickery occurred with only encouragement by higher authorities.

>They do work in fact we are biologically hardwired to help make them work.

Nice appeal to nature fallacy, John Locke. Meanwhile we can see humans in natural state exist with bullshit big chiefs overseeing everything and families of twats taking power whenever central authority collapses.

I specifically mentioned hippies with reference to Curtis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-ocsZCKgTg
>>
No. 17777
>>17773
Against wildlife per se? Nothing. I have problems with wildlife when it causes harm directly or indirectly to humans. Aforementioned boars can be really dangerous, wolves and foxes can give rabies to your house pets such as dogs, the latter ones also steal chickens pretty often, and even hares can damage your garden pretty badly, provided that there is a big population of them. So, in my opinion, wildlife shouldn't have any business in human habitats.
>>
No. 17782
375 kB, 400 × 400
>State TV tells about pornoactor filmography
Sometimes I don't think old plain boring news with hosts speaking with professional staged pronunciation were that bad as they say.
>>
No. 17784
118 kB, 917 × 960
40 kB, 590 × 350
>>17776
It was an appeal to science and neurology you halfwit https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/social-network-size-linked-brain-size/
A nationstate or an empire is a level of abstraction for which most humans are not capable. This is partly why nation states and empires themselves have usually been ruled over by what basically amounts to being a chieftain and his family. It was this way everywhere, including ancient Egypt, Rome, South America, China, Japan, and Europe etc. in their empires.

> in natural state exist with bullshit big chiefs overseeing everything and families of twats taking power
Correct and why should that be inflicted upon massive amounts of society? At least a tribal chieftain personally knows you. You aren't just some number on a ledger to the village elders, unlike in sprawling empires and large complex administrative states. Which also, ironically, is probably why a central authority with layers of administrators (like in Communism, or Rome or Ming China or whathaveyou) or something like Communism both works and is such shit at that level, because it is capable of that amount of organization without (usually) descending into some chieftain and his awful progeny. But then again, it still often does (DPRK for example) and is still a shit system precisely because of that.

Having a single royal family with a bunch of useless toffs is what most of these things tend to degenerate into anyway, with people who seemingly lack any sense of moral or other responsibility whatsoever and treat their own people and nation as their personal piggybank to plunder filled with servants. I have no idea why this has been so routinely tolerated either.
>>
No. 17790
>>17782
Well those ones 60% times just said bullshit that at end of ussr was meant basicly nothing and was kind of ideological mantra.
>>
No. 17791
>>17790
Is that supposed to be different from today?
>>
No. 17793
>>17784
>It was an appeal to science and neurology you halfwit https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/social-network-size-linked-brain-size/

This is an appeal to nature. You assert that man's natural state is a network of 150 and that therefore this is ideal without catching the idea that a personal network and authority structure ought not to produce just results.

Your point that nation states and empires are the same as the lowly chief is false precisely because of this scale. The distant emperor doesn't care about his subjects on a personal level -and that's a good thing! The depersonalised state is the objective and just state which delegates authority to bodies like courts which thereby lays the foundations of the rule of law. It's the depersonalised state that allows you to rise on your merits rather than your connections (as societies revert to as they collapse).

Yes, totalitarianism can only take hold in large modern states but this is akin to comparing systematic and endemic warfare against one's own people. It doesn't matter if your working with a gun in your back under the Khmer Rouge or as a bullied slave in some bydlo village - your life is still shit and you have a system that has reduced you to something less than a human being. At least with a scale in place you have one distant emperor to deal with rather than 150 close by.

>A nationstate or an empire is a level of abstraction for which most humans are not capable

Go out and burn an American flag on a busy street and see what happens then. I don't think I need to prove that mankind is an animal capable of enormous levels of abstract identity.

>Having a single royal family with a bunch of useless toffs is what most of these things tend to degenerate into anyway, with people who seemingly lack any sense of moral or other responsibility whatsoever and treat their own people and nation as their personal piggybank to plunder filled with servants. I have no idea why this has been so routinely tolerated either.

How's that republic treating you. Got yourself a nice little Presidential system haven't you :^)

HOW DARE YOU. HRH IS A SAINT AND PHILIP BRINGS US THE BANTS OF A LOST AGE. roach screeches
>>
No. 17797
63 kB, 302 × 389
>>17793
>Your point that nation states and empires are the same as the lowly chief is false precisely because of this scale. The distant emperor doesn't care about his subjects on a personal level -and that's a good thing! The depersonalised state is the objective and just state which delegates authority to bodies like courts which thereby lays the foundations of the rule of law. It's the depersonalised state that allows you to rise on your merits rather than your connections (as societies revert to as they collapse).

Great post, I echo the sentiment
>>
No. 17800
>>17784
>>17793
Why should appeals to nature not be made? Ignoring human nature is a great way to build a fragile society.

I don't know why you're referring to chiefdoms as the state of nature. For most of human existence we lived as relatively egalitarian hunter-gatherers with distributed authority. The age of chiefdoms is a very brief one in human history.

>How's that republic treating you. Got yourself a nice little Presidential system haven't you :^)
Presidential vs. parliamentary is a different matter from republic vs. monarchy. You don't need a feudal overlord to be a functioning country.
Even in other "monarchies" the monarch doesn't actually matter. If aliens abducted every member of every royal family in the world, the only countries that would notice within a decade would be Britain and Gulf Arab shitholes.
>>
No. 17801
>>17793
>Go out and burn an American flag on a busy street and see what happens then.
I'd immediately have the cops called on me and get arrested not for the flag burning but because I'm setting a fire in public. If I claimed it was for a protest I'd also be arrested for not having a permit.

>How's that republic treating you.
Incredibly poorly in fact. We also don't have one so much as we have an oligopoly thinly disguised as a republic.

>nice presidential system
It is incredibly shit actually and already just by the year 2019 we have twice in this century had a president who didn't even win the popular vote. We are barely any better or different than Russian "democracy"

>your life is still shit and you have a system that has reduced you to something less than a human being.
That's basically how I'd describe being poor in America on some level.

> The distant emperor doesn't care about his subjects on a personal level -and that's a good thing!
No, it isn't, because the dumb prick can make sweeping edicts that horrifically impact millions of people without him having to even bother seeing the consequences or deal with the fallout. It makes it that much harder to oppose his stupid shit whereas the local chieftain can simply be ignored or thrown out of power.

>It's the depersonalised state that allows you to rise on your merits rather than your connections (as societies revert to as they collapse).
It means blatant cronyism still happens but on a much wider scale with more deeply destructive impact. Take for example the case of the Bushes. Senator Prescott Bush was implicated in the attempted fascist coup of our government known as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot His son would be sent to Yale and join the Skull and Bones society, who basically made the CIA. This kid, George H.W. Bush, would later lead the CIA, and become vice president and then president. He was not a very good one. His son, George W. Bush, was continually kicked upstairs, first ruining a baseball team, then ruining a state, and finally ruining the country. He largely got there off his connections. His brother made a failed run for president in 2016 after running the state of Florida for years, including during the hanging chad vote count thing, and I am sure we are going to continue being plagued by this awful family for decades to come.

So it makes the retarded chieftain in a too big to fail position where they're basically now untouchable. This is why monarchies are fucking dog shit and it's what society tends to revert to, since there ends up being a small clique who have concentrated a society's wealth and connections in fewer and fewer hands. You now have every single problem you were complaining about with a village but now at a massive and unassailable scale were it can truly do some catastrophic damage.

> HOW DARE YOU. HRH IS A SAINT AND PHILIP BRINGS US THE BANTS OF A LOST AGE. roach screeches
I'm pretty sure your biases make this discussion a futile endeavor but he is shit and the entire saxgothenburg or whatever bloodline are shit and monarchies are a dog shit system where you have all the problems of a village chieftain with none of the benefits.
>>
No. 17802
>>17801
>didn't even win the popular vote
So working as intended? The American Republic was never intended to be a democracy. In fact, it was something of a dirty word in the early days because it implied tyranny of the majority rather than fair representation even for the concerns of those who don't live in major urban centres.
>>
No. 17803 Kontra
>>17793
>>17797
>depersonalised state that allows you to rise on your merits rather than your connections
Do you guys live in a parallel universe?
Kontra because I'm just ridiculing your naivity.
>>
No. 17806
79 kB, 730 × 768
USA is kill
>>
No. 17814
>>17806
Genuine data or just some attention grab from the typical US media outlet?
>>
No. 17816
>>17814
Nevermind, I was being lazy. Checked the site of NOAA and it's indeed pretty cold. Took me a few minutes to figure out how to display the temperature in metric units though.
>>
No. 17818
>>17814
>attention grab from the typical US media outlet?
This. It is hysteria and clickbaiting. Like africanized bees and such shit. It is winter, it gets cold sometimes. That's all about it.
>>
No. 17822
>>
No. 17823
78 kB, 600 × 722
New episode of the Insitome podcast regarding the recent New York Times magazine piece about the Reich lab and ancient DNA as a field:

https://insitome.libsyn.com/the-new-york-times-takes-on-ancient-dna

This week Razib and Spencer talk to Bastien Llamas, a researcher at the University of Adelaide, about the recent expose about ancient DNA in The New York Times Magazine. Show notes: https://pxlme.me/4OULrz6S
>>
No. 17840
>>17800
>Why should appeals to nature not be made?

Because whether or not something is natural has no inherent bearing on it's utility/goodness. This is rhetoric 101. In this case it should be self-evident that groups above 150 members can not only achieve stability but flourish out of our capacity to operate shifting identity politics (nationalism, class, ethnicity, tribe).

You'll notice I have not said '150 social networks are false' but rather that this doesn't lead to good results.

>I don't know why you're referring to chiefdoms as the state of nature

In anthropological terms 'big man' is the position of authority over a given group. It's only egalitarian in the sense that the big man must cultivate alliances to remain in power which isn't special no matter how much reaching you or fringe communist anthropology want to do. And no, that doesn't mean resources are shared equally.

Chiefdom in this sense is born out of kin-bonds which are the fundamentals of natural human organisation in the family unit. I don't even know why you're trying to split hairs on that other than to obfuscate what we're talking about.

>Presidential vs. parliamentary is a different matter from republic vs. monarchy.

Actually no. The classic example is the French president is the symbolic heart of the French nation just as the Ancien Régime saw her king. Welcome to the great irony of Western European history.

The difference once we get into comparing the British constitutional monarchy with American presidential republic is that the focal point of the British nation is now politically neutral. American presidents meanwhile have only become more politically charged since the institution replaced the monarchy in the era of Washington.

>>17801
The correct answer to flag-burning is you will offend those around you who hold symbolic identity to it. Hence why people burn flags as a form of protest.

As for the 'dumb prick' problem he may exist in any system where he is able to exercise power. The despot may kill people with the army on side or just by getting a few of the big lads on side in a smaller set-up. In a larger scale however personal power is inherently checked by at a minimum the need to delegate authority if not actually reach across the domain while in more sophisticated states more formal checks will exist.

Various secret societies and powerful families are actually symbolic of personal authority becoming maximised and therefore the ensuing collapse of large social organisation. State capture is the term you want. You don't seem to be the type to argue with me if I suggest American society is fucked only I don't think this inherently reverts to monarchy but rather Mafia states.

Don't make point-by-point rebuttals. They render arguments difficult to follow and draw us away from getting to the point.
>>
No. 17855
>>17840
>Because whether or not something is natural has no inherent bearing on it's utility/goodness.
Naturalness does affect workability, though. Obviously we have to make do with what we've got, and can't revert to hunter-gatherer bands of 150 people tops. But we have to look to human nature when designing political and social systems, so that we can make the best systems possible.

>In anthropological terms 'big man' is the position of authority over a given group. It's only egalitarian in the sense that the big man must cultivate alliances to remain in power which isn't special no matter how much reaching you or fringe communist anthropology want to do. And no, that doesn't mean resources are shared equally.
There is a fundamental difference between chiefdoms and more primitive and egalitarian forms of social organization. Hunter-gatherer societies tend to be genuinely egalitarian, without domination by exclusive kin-groups - everyone in a HG band tends to be related to each other.

Hierarchical domination only comes about in societies relying on intensively cultivated resources like crops or herds or especially rich fishing grounds. It isn't the evolutionary human norm.

>Actually no. The classic example is the French president is the symbolic heart of the French nation just as the Ancien Régime saw her king.
You can find plenty of countries with parliamentary systems and no monarch. They usually have presidents, but the president is completely irrelevant and usually forgotten about - just like the theoretical monarch of Canada, Australia, or New Zealand. If the entire British royal family died tomorrow, these countries could all seamlessly transition into republics without anyone even noticing - they would just move on to ignoring the existence of their president instead of ignoring the existence of their royal governor.

Parliamentary systems are better, and its a shame we don't have one. But having a monarch in the year 2019 is just retarded.
>>
No. 17858
>>17855
>evolutionary human norm

No such thing exists.
>>
No. 17866
Why is this fat idiot trying to start WWIII? What purpose does it serve even?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna965751

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-doomsday-clock-two-minutes-20190124-story.html

Apparently a certain fucking idiot is pulling us out of the INF treaty in 6 months.

They say this
>Russia has been in violation of the Cold War era arms control agreement for more than five years. The U.S. gave Russia 60 days to return to compliance in December when Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced at a NATO Foreign Ministers meeting that Russia was in "material breach" of the treaty.
But meanwhile also have been trying to pull out of anti-space weaponization treaties. Also just found out about this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status-6_Oceanic_Multipurpose_System
It's pretty said such technology is in the hands of people like Tr*mp and Putin.
>>
No. 17868 Kontra
>>17866
And actually a good amount of this can be blamed on Bolton btw. This includes the US trying to stage a coup and floating plans of an invasion of Venezuela.
>>
No. 17874
>>17866
WW between who? We live in globalized world where countries' economies are interconnected, Chinese economy is highly dependent on the US and EU, more than yours on their. The same is with Russia, the EU could live without Russian gas and opt for more expensive supplier, but Russia would lose the most important market and crush its export oriented economy without survivors. I'm not even talking about Putin's cronnies making business with the EU/US and the liberal wing of the Kremlin, who constantly put pressure on Putin and unwilling to suffer financial losses due to dubious geopolitical moves. The only type of war that could threaten the United States is civil or proxy war, the age of ideologies is gone, even dictators are here for quick profit.
If Putin was afraid to fully invade Ukraine, why should he risk WW3?
>>
No. 17882
To what degree are extant hunter-gatherer groups like the Hadza actually egalitarian? How about historical groups like those in the American Pacific Northwest or pre-Yayoi Japan?

I don't know anything about anthropology so it's hard for me to determine what's bullshit or not when looking at academic and lay writing on the subject.
>>
No. 17894
>>17882
IIRC Oregon and Washington natives were relatively stratified, but that was because the huge salmon runs that gave them most of their calories functioned in a way similar to cropland. Hunter-gatherer societies can be inegalitarian if they depend overwhelmingly on a bountiful but limited resource like that. We don't know much about the Jomon but for similar reasons of bountiful marine resources, they had really dense and sedentary populations for a pre-agricultural population, so it's possible they had stratification like Washington natives.

That wasn't the norm, though. In California, the natives were about as egalitarian as they come, even in the NW where they relied to a great extent on salmon runs (not sure why it was different for them vs. Washington, but my guess is that the salmon came in smaller numbers).

I did a bit of reading on Andaman natives and they come off as egalitarian too. It's inevitable when you rely on distributed resources all around you that anyone can access at any time. A dickhead and his friends can't set themselves up as the owners of every deer and berry bush in the forest, at the expense of the other 50 people in their band who can just club them in their sleep.

>>17858
99% of human generations existed under similar circumstances. That absolutely influences human psychology, even if there has been some selection since the dawn of agriculture and mega-societies.

>>17874
Europe was economically connected on the eve of WW1, and a lot of people at the time thought that it would make war impossible. How'd that work out for them?

Humans aren't always rational. You can absolutely have a war between two interdependent countries even though war would be a horrible thing for both of them.
>>
No. 17895
168 kB, 2048 × 1536
>>17894
>Humans aren't always rational. You can absolutely have a war between two interdependent countries even though war would be a horrible thing for both of them.
This
>>
No. 17896
529 kB, 1984 × 1736
>>17894
I haven't seen any data on trade between pre-WW1 countries and I doubt that economies were as interconnected as they're today. Everything what Americans consume is produced in another country or its production requires imported resources, it's impossible to be a prosperous autarky in the modern age.
Today people of Europe live in democracies with greater delegation of power, it's much harder to push for a war if the whole nation doesn't want it. Even if Putin or Jinping went nuts, Westerners would still be afraid of war and make Munich style consessions. People living in the West became distrustful of their government without any war and Western politicans understand that. The first time Putin invaded another country, Americans responded with "reset" of relaions and tried to appease Putin. The second time Putin went even further, starting more bloody war, annexing territory and violating Budapest memorandum. What happens two years later? The US elects the most pro-Russia president it ever had and a lot of people start to believe that Clinton would start nuclear war with Russia. Americans and Westerners in general became very soft and afraid of wars, and I don't bet on the US protecting the Baltics if Russia is going to throw shit around the third time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_coup_plot
There was attempted FSB-backed pro-Russian coup in 2016 in Montenegro, how did the US react to this and Montenegro joining NATO? Trump said he wasn't sure it worth to wage a war over some Balkan shithole that he even can't find on a map. How can you be sure that your officials will press the red button if they don't even want to wage conventional war?
>>
No. 17900
>>17896
Because for example in that particular instance you have a very erratic individual who has blatantly and openly stated his support for nuclear proliferation, arming Japan with nuclear weapons, and in general the kind of 13 year old boy or sociopathic fixation on nuclear weapons, threatening to nuke North Korea, trying to start shit with Iran, and planning (and completely failing, Cuban style) go assassinate the leader of a South American country and start a coup there while considering an outright war with Venezuela. This only doesn't happen because our founders wisely put so much shit in the way that if a corrupt oligarch who wants to be an autocrat ever gains power he's going to get cockblocked left right and center on any incredibly stupid decision. This does not mean the leadership here wouldn't do it or do something incredibly stupid like nuke the hell out of Iran.

Question: if USA dropped the bomb on Tehran, what would Russia do? Would it even care if we nuked Iran?
>>
No. 17903
>>17900
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1929
McFaul said that it was pain in the ass for Obama just to make Medvedev join American sanctions against Iran and for that Russia wanted conssessions from American side while Putin, being a prime minister at that moment, wanted to sell S-300 to Iran. Putin sees the US as a threat to his regime, so he tries to maintain relations with any dictators and countries that oppose the US. Russian cooperation with Maduro is a disaster and a lot of Russian liberals blame the old Russian & Soviet way of doing foreign policy, for its attemtps to provide politically usefull allies with investments and favorable (to allies, but not always to Russia) trade deals. The Russian habit of issuing money to the governments and forgiving these debts decades later has became quite famous in Russia, the people are unhappy that such a poor state like Russia subsidizes its allies. The same policy is applied to Syria, Serbia, Cuba, Central Asia, Belarus, etc... For example, after the Orange Revolution, Russia began to intensively search for ways to transit gas bypassing Ukraine because Ukraine was not seen as a friendly country by the Russian government. Many experts and even people hired by Gazprom concluded that attempts to build a gas pipeline bypassing Ukraine wouldn't be profitable over the next decades, and that Russian attempts are largely driven by geopolitical goals.

Putin will do everything that annoys the US and he will not just sit when America is trying to destroy one of its main enemies. Putin thinks that the sovereignty of states is the most important thing and he hates foreign intervention, it doesn't matter how bad the dictator of invaded country is. He was against the Iraq war, Libya, Syria and currently he is backing Maduro. It's very difficult to predict what is happening in Putin’s head, and some of his actions may have a double explanation. It's likely that he is paranoid and somewhere after the Iraq affair and the Orange Revolution, he began to think that the Americans were trying to change the regime in Russia and therefore he tries to keep as many dictators in the world afloat as possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system#Operators_and_other_versions
>>
No. 17908 Kontra
>>17903
>because Ukraine was not seen as a friendly country by the Russian government
So it's actually the opposite, and Ukraine government being unfriendly (before 2014) is a lie spread by Putin?
>>
No. 17915
>>17908
In 2006 parliamentary elections 30% of Ukrainian parliament was held by Party of Regions, Ukrainian pro-Russian party banned in 2014, + 5-10% was held by pro-Russian socialist and communist parties. 4 years later Ukrainians elect Yanukovych candidate for president. It's as pro-Russian as you can get in a country where half of population wanted into Europe, and I would say that Russians should be grateful for these results because those pro-Russian Ukrainians acted purely out of their emotional bias and nostalgia, and not some pragmatic reason. People still cannot understand how rich and developed the EU is, as well as how corrupted and poor the Russian Federation and its puppets are.
If Russia can't develop its own territory, if Russia couldn't even make 10 millions Belarusians rich, then what kind of advantages Russia can offer? I look at the economy of Poland, Hungary, Romania, the Baltics and I see what the EU is capable of. Then I look at Belarus, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Russia and see a bunch of hobbos who would be happy to become the EU members if they were allowed to.
>>
No. 17922
329 kB, 973 × 412
>>17915
>>17908
>pro russian
>anti-russian
>ukrainian
>russian

Different groups of post soviet oligarhs, most of which during 90s was in different was connected or to remnats of communist party factions, or to orgonised crime and mid-level soviet goverment people for 30 years just dividing teritory where they milk resourses, and how they tring to keep their power to take more money for themselfs. Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Kazahstan ruled by same tier of orgonised mafia and still alive worst parts of USSR goverment. And in 2019, where everything more or less obvious even to many foreign people, when poverty and poornes hitting bottom and corruption level is insane, when all this "war" and nationalism become so stupid clown-tier thing that probably even 5yo kid not belive in this lame propoganda, some people - both Russians and Ukrainians - show political idiotism beyond africa tier and we in 2019 continue see posts like this. Even by EC mods, foreign people, one of you if I not mistaken was banned when last time this "russia vs ukraine" circus hit bottom of posting.
And this is mine reason why east slavs will never live any good or happy.
>>
No. 17936 Kontra
>>17922

>east slavs will never live any good or happy.

Never say never, man.
>>
No. 17938
https://twitter.com/SContrerasB/status/1091664599622008833

Air force general accepted opposition leader as president of venezuella, opposing to Maduro.

So parts of army already moving from Maduro
>>
No. 17939
>>17855
>Naturalness does affect workability, though.

I'm not denying that it shouldn't be considered but to value something right and proper on those grounds alone isn't much of an argument. At the very least you have to consider that data can be misinterpreted or seek to reflect a natural state that is neither good on values (personal freedom, ideas of justice etc.) or as you already see one that doesn't fit with our contemporary world.

As for hierarchical domination what I think you're missing is that those naturally occur in groups and often those hierarchies can be unpleasant. Remember high-school. In other areas Quakers seek to create groups without domination using rigid rules such as conservations going around a circle or in the modern workplace a good deal of emphasis is placed on getting meeting where everyone has a turn to speak openly. You can't create a truly egalitarian result without some form of rule based enforcement.

>You can find plenty of countries with parliamentary systems and no monarch

My point is that a monarch in the form of a figurehead will exist regardless of how the figurehead is chosen. If the Nations of the Commonwealth all became republics tomorrow the new figurehead would evolve from the office of the Prime Minister and be inherently politicised by this process. Perhaps one of the issues our contemporary world is even that we can't devise a system of an apolitical head of state.

You see a very British political philosophy at work here where our traditional system of hereditary rule continues because every other option is worse.

>>17858
There's actually plenty of universal behavioural norms we can observe across human societies in a general sense. Dancing or mysticism for instance or certain less savoury parts of our nature that modern societies suppress/mitigate like violence.

The anthropological dilemma is that you cannot get into specifics without inconvenient counter examples showing up leading to explosions of no true scotsman.

>>17866
I don't think there is anything wrong with declaring the INF treaty null and void. The moment UAVs could carry nukes the treaty was rendered void by technological development (as Russia pointed out) and geopolitically East-West bilateral arms treaties are nonsensical after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

>>17896
>Today people of Europe live in democracies with greater delegation of power, it's much harder to push for a war if the whole nation doesn't want it.

Has the Iraq War really become such a distant memory?
>>
No. 17940
>>17939
Forget drones, SSBNs and SSGNs are where the real action is at. Searching the air is far easier than finding a submarine that doesn't want to be found, and you can load up the latter with 23.1Mt of nuclear-tipped Tomahawks if you so desire.
>>
No. 17955
>>17939
The Iraq """"War""" didn't require any sacrifices from Westerners, """"the war"""" that had less than 5 thousand casualties is not comparable to fearmongering we have seen since the Western confrontation with Russia, the fear of WW3 or nuclear war. Russia isn't going to be the first to nuke somebody, Russia isn't going to invade the West (not sure about Belarus or Central Asia). The Iraq """"War"""" is a perfect example how weak the West has become, earlier it took America hundreds of thousands of wounded soldiers and 50 000 dead, one decade, huge social backlash at home and direct confrontation with another superpower just to pull out of Vietnam, but now the people are crying and afraid to stand up for themselves when the dictator of an impoverished shithole that doesn't poses a threat spits in their faces. I'm not talking about invading Russia or sending soldiers to Georgia or Ukraine, people began to be afraid to simply use even weak economic sanctions.
>>
No. 17961
>>17955
Are you retarded? Why should we invade every shithole country with a president who insults us? Even Trump isn't that stupid.

And if you're so eager to see the mass slaughter of millions, why are you still posting on an imageboard instead of killing and dying in Donbass?
>>
No. 17962
>>17961
Use your single digit IQ for at least once and understand that I didn't mean "spits in your face" literally. Putin uses Russian resources to deteriorate American influence in the world, it's not about your honor, idiot. Democracies are the best American allies and only democracies are stable and faithful enough not to switch sides every time a dictator dies and civil war or another power struggle begins. If you didn't gave a shit whether it is morally right to overthrow dictators and improve the quality of life of people, it still suits American interests.
>And if you're so eager to see the mass slaughter of millions
Nice reading comprehension. I explained that modern conflicts don't lead to big loses, at least for Westerners, specially for people like you, and I explained that it would be impossible to participate in nuclear war or conventional war with Russia. You accuse me of wanting the death of millions, but precisely because of retarded doves like you millions of people die from hunger, poor governance and corruption leading to increased peacetime death rates.
So you think that it's BAD to lose 5 000 soldiers and 50 000 civilians fighting in Venezuela/Russia/Iraq/whatever, but it's completely OK for Maduro/Putin/Saddam/Jinping to kill hundreds of thousands of their own citizens via bad management? How many Russians could have been saved from HIV infection or alcoholism if people like Putin didn't steal money and reformed healthcare instead and provided citizens with decent wages, how many Venezuelians wouldn't starve if Maduro wasn't such a giant moron, how many people die in China per year due to state oppression and planned economy mismanagement & corruption?
>>
No. 17964
93 kB, 640 × 640
>>17940
The INF doesn't cover air and sea based missiles. This is part of the reason why UAV is interesting as the terminology of 1987 starts to blur once you consider whether the UAV is the delivery vehicle in itself much akin to it's definition of a cruise missile:

>The term "cruise missile" means an unmanned, self-propelled vehicle that sustains flight through the use of aerodynamic lift over most of its flight path. The term "ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM)" means a ground-launched cruise missile that is a weapon-delivery vehicle.
>>
No. 17965
626 kB, 640 × 4226
>>
No. 17967
1,8 MB, 1189 × 893
>>17965
Were the Nazie happy to meet Soviet liberators? Russians, Arabs and Chinese are totalitarian savages satisfied with the government that cripples their lives. I'm not ethno nationalist but it's the duty of the civilized world, the modern equivalent of the white man's burden, to bring democracy and improvement of quality of life to people from the 3rd world countries at the expense of their sovereignty, even if these people have problems understanding the benefits of democracy.
It just so happened that the national interests of the US and the greater good coincide in this case.
>>
No. 17968 Kontra
125 kB, 1202 × 900
>>17965
>Have half the population of the Galactic Empire
>Have inferior equipment
>Have a smaller economy
>Finally capture the main fortification of the only route between the two nations
>Could make peace
>Go on the offensive instead because muh ideology
>Get your shit pushed in because the enemy also has superior commanders who can see it's be laughably easy to win a war of attrition against a smaller nation
The FPA was the most IQ89 faction in the history of sci-fi. It's a great anime though
Kontra for offtopic
>>
No. 17975
>>17964
An example exists, and it's considered a cruise missile. Israel has a mature cruise missile called Delilah that can loiter above a target for 20 minutes which is not dissimilar to that of a long range air strike to either locate a specific point, or to wait for it to be in a good spot to hit. It's also got man in the loop integration and a 250 nautical range and so is effectively a kamikaze drone. The thing that makes it a missile is that it isn't recoverable. A non-recoverable drone that launches a cruise missile or two is basically just a high-tech multi-stage missile, and an expensive one that probably can't be efficiently used in the saturation tactics that would be required of it in a modern war.

Besides which, whether it gets around the treaty or not isn't really relevant was my main point. To me the treaty wasn't ever relevant because the most dangerous carriers of such weapons were never actually impacted and remain far more of a threat than drones. That's why I pointed out that a sub could already 'legally' do a lot more damage with cruise missiles and be harder to stop.
>>
No. 17976
>>17962
>I explained that modern conflicts don't lead to big loses, at least for Westerners, specially for people like you
Interesting how the inhabitant of a 3rd world shithole seems to not value the loss of life in third world shitholes. So again I ask, why aren't you off in Donbass?
>hurr durr muh evul dictators
For all the shit you fling at Russia and co., people live better under the evul evul dictators than in Free™ Western™ Ukraine or Free™ Western™ Jihadi-run Idlib, and they lived better under Gaddafi than in Free™ Western™ anarcho-Islamic Libya.
If you seriously think our actions have improved Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, or any other country whose internal affairs we've intervened in, you really should do the world a favor and go charging into Russian artillery fire.
>>
No. 17977
68 kB, 1280 × 720
>>17967
This man is a patriot. What we truly need is managed democracy and more patriotic fighters for liber-tea
>>
No. 17980
https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-justice-ministry-to-decriminalize-unavoidable-bribes/29740470.html

Ebin. Legalising bribes is one way to reduce illegal corruption I guess :-DDD
>>
No. 17982
26 kB, 761 × 561
>>17976
I already said before: why don't you compare Russia with actual democracies? Why it's always Ukraine and Russia, not Poland and Russia, not South Korea and Russia, not Japan and Russia, not the US and Russia, not Germany, the UK, the Baltics, etc, but only Ukraine and Russia? Being a democracy doesn't guarantee you prosperity, neither dictatorship makes a country automitically poor. You don't become automatically smart and successful by being born in a rich family, but the riches your family holds certainly help you aquire education and develop your intelligence, thus you aquire a chance to become more successfull than a lower-class scum. Democracies encourage innovation and a peaceful transition of power, they guarantee stability and minimize the loss of human lives, thereby forcing your society to grow at a higher speed and preserve human capital better than authoritarian states.
>Syria, Libya
Half-assed interventions. You must either be prepared for a full-fledged invasion, occupation of the country and subsequent nation building with billions of $ being wasted for humanitarian reasons or not to invade at all.
>Iraq
Doesn't seem like a failure to me if we talk about economy. I don't know much about Iraq, Saddam and American policy in the region and can't tell what's the difference between the pre-Saddam Iraq and post-Saddam Iraq. There's no dispute that on average democracies work better than authoritarianism, and that ideally every country in the world should implement democracy. The problem is that not every invasion is well thought out and reasonable, we should strive to change the regime everywhere, but not every invasion can lead to a positive result in the long term, and even a successful coup would require millions of $ to change the mentality of the people and stop the economic crisis that always follows the political instability caused by coup. If you don't stop the economic crisis, then there is a risk of return to authoritarian rule.

Economic support in hard times is very important, people don't understand the root of their troubles and tend to vote for the wrong candidates or decisions. Yes, I'm looking at Brexit.
Example: Russians support Putin because after the economic crisis in the 90s they started to associate liberalism and democracy with a poor quality of life, they had a desire to see an authoritarian strongman in the political arena. The situation is similar to the USA. American income has stagnated in the last 30 years and well-paid work in the manufacturing sector was moved to countries with lower cost of labor, it provoked increase in workers in low-paid service sector, stagnating income and working class ressentment, and the desire to overthrow neoliberalism and the establishment, which in turn led to Trump's election. Does Trump solve the problems that made American workers vote for an oligarch, against their own interests? Hell no, he doesn't. Neither is Putin, but Putin, unlike democratic rulers, not only slowed down Russian economic growth, but also actively uses administrative and non-legal resources against his opposition. In a democracy, an idiotic ruler would be ousted from power, but in an authoritarian state this power-hungry idiot uses all possible means to remain the head of state and keep the bad policies he implemented.
In such cases, a regime change is a reasonable solution, but this is a job for think tank employees to analyze how many resources should be spent on a coup or an invasion, and whether it is worth it in the long run. Invading Venezuela in 2014 would be a better solution than waiting for its economic collapse and then invading it in 2019. In Syria, too, the US had to invade the country in 2011 OR fully ignore it rather than choose the worst and simply support the rebels thus provoking long and bloody civil war. McFaul does not specialize in the Middle East, but he mentions that the US officials were confident several times before 2014 that the Syrian government should soon fall. It is likely that American intelligence and analytics did a poor job, which ultimately led to the wrong decisions by the president based on the experts' poor reports describing the internal situation in the country. However, Syria would not be such a problem if Russia and Iran, two hostile athoritarian regimes, didn't support it. If the whole world consisted of democracies and only one authoritarian state represented by Syria, there would be enough pressure to crush the country completely. Neither DPRK would survive without support from its authoritarian buddies, China and Russia.
>>
No. 18019
15 kB, 450 × 297
15,3 MB, 640 × 360, 2:39
>>17982
It's because you are the one getting foreign intervention from Russia right now and had been made more prosperous and powerful by Russia in the past.
>talking about authoritarian states and us intervention positively in the same post
You do realize that most of the time America was propping up evil dictators, right? Saddam had only gotten into power because the CIA was backing him. Why was CIA backing him? Because Iran had recently overthrown their idiotic shit dictator in a revolution and America wanted to hurt them for it, so America looked the other way and gave sanction to Saddam using chemical weapons against Iranians.

You can look anywhere in the world where America actively destroyed democracies and propped up authoritarian regimes guilty of the very things you talked about. The USA is not good and it is not your friend. It is a malevolent freedom hating entity at this point whose only reason not to die as an empire is because China is even more evil and so is Russia. If EU became the dominant world power I'd back them over us in a heartbeat for protecting our global freedoms and human rights because America is a fucking joke. America IS Russia we just had better propaganda because we had already Hollywood and mass marketing telling you all we each live in fancy homes drinking beer out of red cups. And the beer is shitty btw and the houses aren't nice. Life isn't great unless you're part of the upper middle class and above, which btw the middle class keeps shrinking as our vampiric parasite 0.01% oligarchy continues siphoning our funds off while America continues to fall apart.
>>
No. 18031
>>17967
You seem to be under some assumption that the west is even remotely capable of going to war with the whole planet and that the resultant peace could ever be worth it. What I'm getting at is there's limits to what even a dedicated western military involvement can achieve and I think the American experience in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan should be evidence enough. Never-mind the harm it would do to those we spread civilization to, even our own societies would be put at risk by endless wars pushed by zealots or the idea that anyone out of step could be fucked up at will.

The reality is the west never rose to prominence picking fights with anyone who remotely had their shit together and our economic success is centred on an international rules based order -which is partly why we have such unsavoury pals. Something put at risk if we discard the principle of non-intervention established in the 20th century for damn good reason. We already have R2P but even assuming a right to prevent ethic cleansing has been a bit of a farce.

>>17968
I read this criticism a lot but I think it accurately showed the kind of madness nations can fall under. The FPA won some amazing gambles but just like a gambler they couldn't stop. The third power invasion route was a cop-out imo.

>>17975
Well, exactly the drone thing is a good excuse for legal assburgers which is why I highlighted it. The INF Treaty though should be seen as more than its component parts, it was hoped at the time of signing to be a bridge of trust to something more like global nuclear disarmament. You can't scoff at it's limitation when it was something and there's a strong argument that collectively arms treaties had a big impact on the end of the Cold War.

Now that the INF treaty clearly failed there needs to be something to replace it as the bedrock of relations with Russia. Something that would by geopolitical necessity also now need to involve China unless we really want to go back to the height of the Cold War.

>>17982
>Democracies encourage innovation and a peaceful transition of power, they guarantee stability and minimize the loss of human lives, thereby forcing your society to grow at a higher speed and preserve human capital better than authoritarian states.

And yet the world is littered with failed democracies born with or without western interventions because societies transitioned without appropriate institutions in place.

Look at the development of Tanzania with Kenya in recent history. Tanzania had a period of brutal totalitarian rule but coming from that has been stability in national identity and resulting development while Kenya routinely falls into bydlo tribal clashes at every election. The 90s mantra of an end of history is long out of vogue by now.
>>
No. 18054
319 kB, 1292 × 646
73 kB, 595 × 636
542 kB, 5800 × 2516
>>18019
Russian foreign intervention doesn't promote democracy but only radicalizes Ukrainian population, makes them believe in nationalist-populist rhetoric. If Russian actions were linked to promotion of democracy and prosperity in Ukraine, then I would defend Russia.
>and had been made more prosperous and powerful by Russia in the past
According to who? At what time in history was Ukraine developed and why this is Russian merit? In Russia, there is a myth that Russia was one of the poorest republics of the USSR and that subsidies for national republics inside the union and socialist camp plundered Russia. While I agree that the USSR was spending money on supporting the socialist camp and subsidizing republics within the union, I cannot find any Soviet data that would indicate a low standard of living in Soviet Russia and the difference in quality of life between the republics, or papers describing how Russia "build" Ukraine. All I see is that in 1989 GDP per capita in Russia was twice as great as Ukrainian GDP per capita.
>Life isn't great
The fact that the middle class began to decline and didn't enjoy the fruits of globalization doesn't make globalization a bad policy and doesn't mean that the United States is a bad place to live. Americans still enjoy one of the highest levels of living in the world and the US is a №1 destination for economic migrants. If a billionaire becomes a millionaire, this does not mean that his life has turned into giant pile of crap.

>>18031
The USSR had a very weak economy and no allies in its early years, but thanks to the militarization of the economy the USSR was capable to install countless puppet states around the world. NATO right now has capabilities beyond its imagination, no alliance has ever enjoyed such a comprehensive domination in the world. If we take it to extreme, the problem of the West is the unwillingness to suffer economic losses and hundreds of thousands of dead for the sake of regime change in other countries. The West is capable to change the world, but doesn't want it for whatever reasons.
>>
No. 18059
>>18054
> The West is capable to change the world, but doesn't want it for whatever reasons.

Because it doesn't give a shit. All it cares about is profits and wealth (their own of course).
>>
No. 18078
7,9 MB, 640 × 360, 2:13
>>18054
>Americans still enjoy one of the highest levels of living in the world
lol not if you're poor. The place is only actually nice if you have a nice car and a nice suit and are one of the top successful people, who probably stepped on a lot of heads to get there. Meanwhile if you're less than that particularly lower middle class to lower class, then no, it isn't. The average German probably lives a hell of a lot better than us. Most of what you seem to believe is a complete fabrication of American propaganda. You can listen to Radio Free Europe all you want but you're still basically swallowing RT tier national propaganda.
>and the US is a №1 destination for economic migrants
You should check this out
http://theconversation.com/more-mexicans-are-leaving-the-us-than-coming-across-the-border-51296
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/20/us/more-mexican-immigrants-leaving-us-than-entering-report-finds.html
It's not a new trend. America has long projected the image of its streets being paved with gold and houses made out of gingerbread and spring rains of honey and dollar bills. But in truth it's not actually like that. Depending on where you are and your economic position this place is a third world country. There are some first world parts although even there you often have to pay out the ass and if you look even slightly poor or like any kind of dissident or a minority you're going to be accosted by the police constantly with our broken as fuck judicial system https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/31/us/public-defender-case-loads.html
>If a billionaire becomes a millionaire, this does not mean that his life has turned into giant pile of crap.
PROTIP very very few people are millionaires. Most of us will never have the chance to become millionaires. I don't know where the fuck you are getting these ideas about my country.

> At what time in history was Ukraine developed and why this is Russian merit? In Russia, there is a myth that Russia was one of the poorest republics of the USSR and that subsidies for national republics inside the union and socialist camp plundered Russia. While I agree that the USSR was spending money on supporting the socialist camp and subsidizing republics within the union, I cannot find any Soviet data that would indicate a low standard of living in Soviet Russia and the difference in quality of life between the republics, or papers describing how Russia "build" Ukraine. All I see is that in 1989 GDP per capita in Russia was twice as great as Ukrainian GDP per capita.
Russia, despite all its issues of being well Russian and thus Russifying to all it touches, did indeed build up your country. They gave you everything including the nukes you gave up for some reason, and a nuclear power plant that your engineers proceeded to fuck with and broke. It may still be poor af but it turned an agrarian nowhere into something with industry, schools, hospitals, roads. Maybe USSR did not do enough. Maybe USSR was also very very evil. But still, despite all its flaws it did contribute to Ukraine.
https://www.loc.gov/rr/business/ukraine/economy.html
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0
I had to go with this because curiously enough the English wiki flat out doesn't have anything about Soviet industrialization of Ukraine prior to 1945
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic#Before_1945
Talk about propaganda. You perceive there being more freedom here than we have also, which while better than Russia is a piss poor example for anything if you have to say "well at least is better than Russia" which btw also doesn't have the death penalty anymore.
>>
No. 18088
>>17982
>Why it's always Ukraine and Russia
Because you are essentially two parts of the same country (along with Belarus) in historical and cultural terms. There are deeper differences between Russia and other countries which weaken the value of any comparisons.

>Half-assed interventions.
We've been in Afghanistan for 18 fucking years and it hasn't done them any good. We haven't built anything of lasting value there because we don't know how, and as soon as we leave, the only lasting reminder of our time there will be a bunch of filled cemeteries.

>Iraq
Saddam was a monster, but our war directly killed hundreds of thousands (putting us already on par with Saddam in terms of number of Iraqis killed), and it directly led to the creation of ISIS. We were, as always, incapable of bringing about any lasting local change, and so the government we left behind was as inefficient and corrupt as every Iraqi government that came before.

>In such cases, a regime change is a reasonable solution
No it isn't, because changing a state of equilibrium is more likely to make things worse than to make them better.
Putin is shit, Maduro is shit, Assad is shit, but waiting in the wings to take power in their stead are a horde of oligarchs who want to turn Russia into a second Ukraine, a horde of oligarchs who want to undo every positive change made by the Bolivarians, and a horde of jihadis who want to expel all the Christians and murder all the Shia. And on their way to power, thousands or even millions will die in civil war and anarchy.

In Venezuela, an entirely domestic change of regime might be an improvement only because oligarchic vampirism is better than mass starvation. But I'm skeptical as to the details of the standard narrative coming out of Venezuela, because the Western propaganda machine is out in full force. Believing everything you hear about Venezuela today is like believing everything you heard about Iraq in 2002.

And no matter what, an invasion of Venezuela will make things worse. Even if the new government is run by saints, you've undermined their legitimacy by making them rely on foreign soldiers for their power, and you've undermined whatever fragile peace their political system might have had. If you want to fundamentally change Venezuela for the better, you would have to annex it, and then have 50 years of stable good government and education ran by foreign agents who are entirely altruistic and capable, and truly have no other desire than to improve the Venezuelan nation and make the people better able to govern themselves.

That situation has never happened in history. No country has the capability or the moral inclination to run an extended occupation like that, and certainly not the US. You can't solve a country's problems by invading it. This should be self-evident.
>>
No. 18139
Since we don't have any Venezuelans here I tried making the mistake of looking at 4krebs /int/ to see reactions on this and holy Jesus fucking Christ is it bad. Like, it is really unbelievably bad, even worse than I imagined. I think we had a Chilean but idk if he still posts here.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/venezuela-s-maduro-trump-why-would-you-want-repeat-vietnam-n966531
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/venezuela-nicolas-maduro-us-donald-trump-stain-hands-blood-europe-backs-guaido/
So what is actually going on do you think? It is probably hard to find the truth for myself in this country because it is well American media and Ami media is totally full of shit when it comes to things like this, since it is looking like the US is trying to pull some 1980s tier crap in Venezuela.

The thing is what do actual Venezuelans and other South Americans think about the issue? Is Maduro really that genuinely disliked? Who the fuck is this US hegemon puppet my country's government is trying to install?
>>
No. 18142 Kontra
>>18139
Oh yeah, and I forgot to note that here was not a single thread talking about it. In fact 90% of the board was apparently not talking about international events or happenings or at all. It is unspeakably bad.
>>
No. 18143
>>18142
I don't understand your problem. There is a today thread and this news thread. If you feel like bringing u a topic you are free to do so. If people want to adress your post they will.
I think it is a good thing that this board is not filled with 90% talk about "happenings" because there are plenty of places that are and it is a blessing to have one that isn't.

On topic: It is just another edition of The USA is bringing freedom and democracy and I don't think there is much left to be said about it.
>>
No. 18144
>>18143
No no you don't understand, I wanted to discuss this with South Americans or at the very minimum see what they had to say about it and get unfiltered news rather than some corporate crap that's probably being leaned on t give the Correct™ interpretation of events. Because I'm a dumbass I was looking for responses on chans, so I figured I might as well just post it here. The main thing I'm curious about is whether Venezuelans are opposed to this Guaidó guy or how much they actually hate Maduro, and the general response to US meddling in the region's governments again (which I imagine would be negative, but our news is making it sound like Venezuelans would be cheering US troops).

And as long as I'm actually posting I might as well add what I thought to add but didn't because whatever
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/
So the horrors has actually come. I was pretty much expecting this at some point but it seems that now Hawaii is trying to make cigarettes completely illegal, which who knows what impact tobacco prohibition will do. They can probably pull it off easy because it's just a bunch of islands in the middle of absolute nowhere in the Pacific, but I fear this is going to become a general policy sooner rather than later.
>>
No. 18145
Interesting, 4 days old news but I didn't know about it. EU really isn't willing to follow USA demands on this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzJ94CLV9fI
>>
No. 18151 Kontra
>>18139
>So what is actually going on do you think?

Maduro and his gangs of bandits sucking out the blood out of the Venezuelan people. That's what's "going on. ":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrDZywyJ-Qw

(turn on English captions if you don't understand German)

>>18142
Like the Germanball said, your are free to discuss any happenings you want in the news thread, so I can't understand your problem either.
>>
No. 18166
Looks like Cold War 2 electric boogalo just started
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-vows-outspend-russia-without-missile-pact-050748925.html
Because of course, the one damn thing we need to spend money on is more nukes while the deficit is still the highest it's ever been and still climbing. There was always that pop culture rumor that the US bankrupted the US with fears of falling behind the US and spending themselves into oblivion. Do you think Putin would try such a thing while bluffing that Russia has new technology that it doesn't?
>>
No. 18168
>>18166
Russian economy experiences stagnation and is growing by 1-2% per year, which is less than American 2-4% and the world average 3%, the country spent 5% of its GDP on military in 2016 and 4% in 2017. Each year Russia cuts its entitlement programs BUT raises taxes, the pension reform in 2018 delivered huge blow to Putin's authority and Russians are very pessimistic. The Russian population is decreasing due to negative net migration and the birth rate below the replacement level, while the US population is increasing thanks to a steady stream of immigrants. Russia is at the limit, time is not on its side and Putin understands that it will be more difficult for him to squeeze money from taxpayers because he was very desperate in 2018 trying to push the blame on other officials for the unpopular reform.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth
>>
No. 18171
66 kB, 672 × 480
>>18168
It's funny that you talk only about russia - always. If I'd try to show that I'am not just south-west russia, but other country - I'd try to avoid this topic for the most part, pretending that I'am not care.

Meanwhile Volga 3102 help helper Tesla lol
>>
No. 18172
>>18171
>Lies! You can't talk bad about Russia unless you're Russian!
Russia is a shithole, but the country has had enormous economic influence in Ukraine and it's logical that I like any rational human being pursue my economic interests and I'm interested in what has the greatest impact on the people I identify myself with and me.
>>
No. 18173
>>18171
>If I'd try to show that I'am not just south-west russia, but other country
Because Russia having annexed Ukrainian territory and funding parts of an ongoing civil war in the place isn't a valid reason for disliking the place pretty severely? I dunno, it pisses me off and it ain't even my homeland. I imagine it gets pretty heated when it is your homeland.
>>
No. 18176
>>18173
This may sounds like it some sort of big deal, but in realty if just shitty oligarhs from both sides trying to earn more power and more money. There is nothing like "holy war of good against evil", it more like shit against shit that made one of the crappy south-west regions even more shitty.

>>18172
I mean, this is only thing you basicly talk about this on board - only posting and disscusing russia. I imagine person who constantly watching PATRIOTIC NEWS, shit like "OM TV" and spread it across all possible places he can. Ironic that from both sides of border it absoluetly same tier people - basicly you are mirror image of local vatniks who watchnig Kiselov tv shows and 24/7 talking about "how shit is ukraine".
It looks pathetic from outside - when russian and ukrainians who litteraly same tier people, live in same tier shithols constantly with obession put fingers on each other talking about how shitty his neighbor.
Ukraine will be shit, same as russia will be shit untill times when it's population drop this mentality
>>
No. 18178
>>18176
So why is your response to make the implication that Ukraine is 'south-west Russia' and that they have to somehow 'prove' that it isn't? It's a catch 22, if they complain then they're obviously Russian in denial but if they don't complain then they wanted it all along and are thus Russian in denial. Your comment leaves no room for the assertion that Ukraine exists. And even if it's a feud between oligarchs, only one side has seized the others' territory. It's hardly a tit-for-tat scenario.
>>
No. 18179
363 kB, 1000 × 750
6,4 MB, 4272 × 2848
308 kB, 1100 × 732
>>18178
What the fucking catch 22? I told that he constantly posting "how shitty is russia" while it looks hilarious because he live in absoluetly same place. I don't care about political borders and don't said about it anything, I even think that fragmenting russia on sever states would be a good idea, what I said is basicly you for example will not distinguish where is ukraine and where is russia, because this is absoluetly same tier post-USSR shithole, that have same people, same problems, and same tier oligarhs who rule it and who know each other, and basicly all this "war" and "national questions" is iternal arguings between this oligarhs, nothing more. And this "ruling circles" - remnats of soviet rotten system together with 90s criminals is one of the main reasons why everything is so deep shit. Tell something otherwise, screaming about NATIONAL IDEANTITIES OF ruSSians of ukrainians - is basicly falling in this obvious stupid bait.
>>
No. 18180
>>18179
Look at the bit I quoted above. That's not saying 'he always complains about Russia' (though again, oligarchs or not, it's still his country being eaten up by another, saying it's oligarchs doesn't change that). What you said was that in effect that his dislike of Russia is fueled by this implied desire to prove that Ukraine is not Russia. That is quite literally what you wrote down. So if we go with that and loudly complaining about Russia implies that he is trying to prove that Ukraine is not Russia, but regular logic also states that having internationally agreed upon borders infringed without any complaint means that you see the infringement as just or at least recognise it, thus not complaining also means that Ukraine is Russia.

And once more, saying that it's 'oligarchs' doesn't change the fact that it's an act of war. Very few wars if any have ever been anything but squabbles between oligarchs. The Great War is a perfect example of this. They all knew each other and it was just the nobility's internal bickering at its core. It was still a murderous affair between states that created a lot of bad blood.

It's been nearly 30 years since they became independent. There's an entire generation who have been born in an independent Ukrainian state, raised around ideas of Ukraine as its own entity, I think it's a bit closed-minded to think that there can't actually be those who feel Ukrainian rather than identify with a country they've never experienced.
>>
No. 18183
210 kB, 1000 × 750
>>18180
>it's still his country being eaten up by another,
It's one part of shitty post-sovok arguing with other part of shitty post-sovok. I think only baltic states truley managet to try develop actual countries - other, including russia itself can be named as actual countries with concretic goals or something that determine it as country. This is rotten pieaces of USSR that still not died and nothing more.

>What you said was that in effect that his dislike of Russia is fueled by this implied desire to prove that Ukraine is not Russia
Ukraine - absoluetly same shithole as russia. Even not as - this is same boiling shithole. By saying that "we are not we are not" - nothing changed. He have different goverement, independency, same as russia - but not belarus, not russia, not ukraine developed enough of identity to be "a relly different county". You imagine it like one county and other country enemies and they fight and something. I see it like somewhere in south our bandits in this district start fighting with outer group of bandits in nearby district, so they burned a couple of shitty villages in between. Things like that happen INSIDE russia even now on Caucasus regulary.

>There's an entire generation who have been born in an independent Ukrainian state, raised around ideas of Ukraine as its own entity
But sovok never changes, and same it was, same it still around - people mentality, life, everything absoluetly same. You need microscope to search actual differences between russian and ukrainian.

>And once more, saying that it's 'oligarchs' doesn't change the fact that it's an act of war. Very few wars if any have ever been anything but squabbles between oligarchs. The Great War is a perfect example of this. They all knew each other and it was just the nobility's internal bickering at its core. It was still a murderous affair between states that created a lot of bad blood.
War or not war, criminal goverments don't care at all. Anyway, I'am pretty shure at this moment at Caucasus regulary die more peaople from some clashes with another terrorists than in Dombass which become some sort of buffer zone and anybody don't know what to do with it. Such life in third world.

You imagine me probably like some sort of anti-ukrainian or "patrior" but I'am not. I actually trying to opposite, describe that pseudo-patriots from both sides is people who more easely take baits from corrupted goverements, and this goverments - is main cause of all this troubles. This is main idea I tried to tell to ukrainian.

To foreigns - that this situation is total shit, but as usual, most of people only when conflict starts discovered that such country even exist and don't know what is it, what it relation, what situation in it and what make it different from russia and what make it same.

Long things short - majority of population of both countries stupid as fuck and can be tricked easely, foreighns don't care and don't want to know anything about situation beside some cold facts from news.
>>
No. 18186
>>18183
If you honestly didn't care, then you wouldn't be getting cut up by the fact that he mostly posts negative things about Russia, you would just take the advice you dish out so eagerly and say to ignore it.

Why are you so reluctant to just say it then? It isn't a matter of 'war or not war'. The Russian Federation as a state actor occupied and annexed the sovereign territory of another state actor, the Republic of Ukraine. They have furthermore trained and equipped fighters that have gone on to wage further conflict in other parts of the country. That is the forcible change of borders through use of military force. It is war with zero grey area. It doesn't matter if it can all be tied back to oligarchs. The fact of the matter is that their squabbling has caused two states to go to war and they aren't using toy guns.

>You need microscope to search actual differences between russian and ukrainian.
Can you tell the difference between an Australian and a New Zealander without looking it up? Most non-Oceanians struggle with that one, but we're still two different nationalities with what are distinct national characters despite their shared history and cultural similarities. Don't sell short how important some of the small differences can be for a person's identity.
>>
No. 18189
>>18186
>Can you tell the difference between an Australian and a New Zealander without looking it up? Most non-Oceanians struggle with that one, but we're still two different nationalities with what are distinct national characters despite their shared history and cultural similarities. Don't sell short how important some of the small differences can be for a person's identity.
I don't think current Anglo-world is that much distinct one from another, all of it's countries in same allieances and... well crap it's not me who should talk about it

>If you honestly didn't care, then you wouldn't be getting cut up by the fact that he mostly posts negative things about Russia, you would just take the advice you dish out so eagerly and say to ignore it.
If he constantly post GOOD things about russia it would be even more strange, possibly marking him as proxy pootine shill.

My initial answers was not aimed to trying to describe someone from different part of world what's happening, I'am to lazy to do it at and state of 2019 everyone sane there already vomiting from this theme.
I have question to him why all his posts there is this generated political news about russia, like we are in 2014. Only thing in his life is just searching news about russia and monitoring how another toilet pipe broken in saratov causing shit river over 10 city blocks?
I heavely doubt that he lives on border with donbass to make this crap too much obession with it's own life. I can every hour post like 10-20 news about how shitty ukraine and russia. Maybe even more and half of them will be "the horror" or "hilarious" for first world dweller.
Like currently, 5 minutes ago this clown was freed from his prison-dacha to say something and this just funny and stupid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAJuBiEwS8M

But maybe find there any other hobby to do with your life, or maybe post on EC more about other cool things? Videogames, literature, sport, travel, maybe some other funny news, than continue to chew that stagnaited conflict, which will anyway will not lead to anything.
>>
No. 18195
To be fair they are actually a cult
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/danish-jehovahs-witness-sentenced-to-six-years-in-prison-in-russia/2019/02/06/415f0b98-29f7-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html
but 6 years in prison is pretty extreme don't you think? Plus it is Putin's regime and we all know that if they ever do anything good it's more of a side effect.
>>
No. 18196
>>18195
>in prison for extremism
Haha, every day someone put in jail by this article. It was desighned so every person can be put in jail for absoluetly everything. It's absoluetly universal and already become a meme.They just randomley pick people sometimes and put in jail for extremism. They also using this article against people which goverlent don't like (opposition, people who trying to talk about problems, people who appeared in wrong place) but can't find other article even in current shitty law system. You can accidentaly fart in your home - boom, it's extremism.
>>
No. 18197
>>18195
I feel a strong disdain for Jehova's Witnesses for whatever reason.
This is okay in my book.
>>
No. 18199
>>18197
JWs are that Christianity based cult that tried to legally argue here for letting their kids die because they don't believe in blood transfusion for some reason
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_blood_transfusions

>>18196
I would imagine there is much ebin Russian jokes about such matter right now by comedians and online memes but they have already been jailed for extremism by telling them
>>
No. 18200
>>18199
I always assumed they were just a sect, trying to make money off gullible pensioners.
(Sorta like how Scientology does the same with celebrities)
>>
No. 18219
46 kB, 504 × 654
>>18200
I don't know that they actually take money from people like Scientology does. I am pretty sure they are just a sect, in both the French and Russian meaning of the word and in the English meaning. They are pretty much more like some kind of super extremist sect of Christian's that are a cult and afaik they aren't actually in it for the money just the extremism of zealotry. Scientology is more the completely evil money making scam that's just meant to exploit and destroy people for the founder. I did know a guy who was actually part Jewish who was a JW for some reason and he told me directly yeah it's a cult. Mormonism is also it's own really strange sort of cult but are a bit less extreme than JWs and are definitely in it for the money.

...yeah we tend to have and make lots of cults here
>>
No. 18225
>>18219
Yeah, but I don't hate Mormons because the only picture I have them is that they work and abstain from most kinds of pleasure while following a batshit crazy version of Christianity in which you get your own planet orbiting around space Jesus who just saved your soul.
I consider them funny instead of being harmful. (And I'd say they are quintessentially American in a sense.)

JWs I see every day and I think they are a threat to our culture. Though I never really understood what they do besides talking to people on the street and handing out copies of the Watchtower. Their Bible is ass though. They just translated the NIV into Hungarian.
They also seem really secretive in a sense, and they don't celebrate Christmas and stuff. It's foreign, it's American, and it's here, so out with it! (If you don't mind.)
>>
No. 18229
>>18225
No you should say out with it regardless of my opinion because it is shit here and I expect shit everywhere. Also Mormons can be pretty harmful too. I knew a guy who got disconnected from everyone because he decided to leave their retarded cult. Mormons are just less overtly terrible but they're still not any good.
>>
No. 18268
>>18195
Continue of this story and responde from UN
Additionally about overall "extremism" article in russian """law"""

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/02/1032151
>>
No. 18269
>>18268
The one cool thing about them is their total rejection of temporal rules and laws including basically an utter rejection of government and their laws in favor of what they perceive as god's law (hence why Russia banned them) however they are still a secte
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/france-00.html
Oh God they actually called the title of the wiki page "persecution"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses
They are a cult and both France and Russia are right to ban them.
>>
No. 18271 Kontra
>>18269
Oops I meant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_and_governments#France
They are not an actively malevolent organization and a complete fraud only existing for money like Scientology nor are they some retarded suicide cult like Heavens Gate, Jonestown, or Solar Temple, nor some bizarre upper level political networking and sex abuse scam like the Moonies, but they can still be pretty damn harmful to their members. It is pretty much a totalitarian brainwashing thing. Children are prevented from even celebrating their own birthday or Christmas, and they are prevented from life saving blood transfusions among other things. They are not outright evil but they're still a brainwashing terrible cult.
>>
No. 18273
>>18269

>they are still a secte

Who isn't?
>>
No. 18349
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrSS720_1sM

A murkan tabloid which was already in legal troubles some years ago for blackmailing someone else with private photos, is now also being accused by Bezos (owner of Amazon) of trying to blackmail him with private photos in exchange of him interfering in his newspaper Washington Post which is investigating something in the murkan government.

According to these MSNBC guys, this National Enquirer newspaper was using similar shady tactics against many Trump adversaries during election.

I find it interesting that one of the guys commented that Bezos was wise to use this in favor of his public image, because he's the owner of the only trillion dollar company of the world today, Amazon is famous for treating its employees like shit, and Bezos apparently spends a lot of resources doing lobby in Washington, so usually he's not o a dude that's very appreciated by the public. But being blackmailed like that will certainly make him seem more humane in the eyes of many murkans, they get to see leaked photos of him naked while at the same time thinking of him as a victim of something that any common person could also be victim of.
>>
No. 18352
78 kB, 620 × 350
>>18349
Yes some background: the National Enquirer is a sleazy tabloid of such epic proportions it makes the dailyfail look positively class in comparison. NE is the kind of crap right next to "Batboy alien experiment discovered in local cave!" at the supermarket checkout. NE is the one that had a catch and kill on the Stormy Daniels story, in other words Trump was trying to use it to quash any stories about him fucking porn stars or giving them hush money. It is, for whatever reason, Trump's main booster rag that helped him in the primaries and general election and trying to muckraker and spread shit all over everyone Trump doesn't like (which of course is many people).

Washington Post had been one of the primary sources of actually digging into Trump. The whole thing about CNN going after him is total bullshit and all the media has been very even handed and played with him using kids gloves, except for WP, which got bought out by Bezos.

Bezos, as you all well know, is a trillionaire evil faggot.

Trump is a billionaire evil faggot.

What this boils down to is in our shitty cyberpunk dystopia two murkan oligarchs are fighting each other through media outlets they either directly own or have some stake in. This is better understood as a Shadowrun campaign on some level. Minus all the actual nice things of such a setting, of course. Basically it is more like the shittiness of internal squabbles between oligarchs in Eastern Europe I think Slavs here will understand what's happening best.
>>
No. 18354
36 kB, 589 × 308
The universe proves that you can be the most retarded official in the history of your country, and you will enjoy the support from 30% of its population. People adore strongman dictators and for them it doesn't matter how often their dictators make mistakes, ordinary people are like goddamn bitches and feel comfortable with big masculine tough guys.
Just a daily reminder that 40% of Russians love Stalin and God knows how many people love Mao and Hitler.
>>
No. 18357
>>18354
>40% of Russians love Stalin
And?
>>
No. 18359
688 kB, 1440 × 900
>>18354
I'm formulating some kind of hybrid thing where elements of therapy, the Catholic Church, rehab, cults, corporate culture, self help, college culture etc all work with groupthink, and one of the most basic things I've realized is people just like to feel good. Feeling good about themselves, about the future, about other people, it doesn't seem to matter people just seem to want/need that continual validation and ego stroking and they'll still operate as basically drug addicts. I've never understood just what in fuck the point was of things like those groups in Fight Club where everyone sits around in a circle, support groups I think it's called. And one of the biggest things to always keep in mind is people will forgive a lot of stupid shit, but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

This is one thing that actually probably our worst president ever or rather his handlers knew, which was all Regan had to do was tell tens of millions of idiots "it's morning in America!" and that's all it takes. It's part of why some of the stupidest fucking cults imaginable still rope people in, because they bombard you with lots of empty blind enthusiasm. It is amazing how many people this works on, no matter how utterly retarded or just openly plain evil the person selling it.
>>
No. 18360
>>18357
And it is a combination of turbo bydlo loving to sit on butilka with Stockholm Syndrome dumb woman who comes back to sociopath who always beats her saying how he loves her. Some would say, Stalin won Patriotic War and how he industrialized. Others would say, how he let most of the country get burned down and had to ask USA to bail him out with land lease because he was too busy executing anyone competent and jailing half the country.
>>
No. 18362
>>18360
>Others would say, how he let most of the country get burned down and had to ask USA to bail him out with land lease because he was too busy executing anyone competent and jailing half the country.
This is how history of WW2 learned in USA?

>>18354
And how many people in world love Napoleon, or Alexander the Great? There thing is not in "positive" reputation or "negative" reputation, but with overall glory points. Lame things about Stalin long time forgotten by majority. "Glory" things - bad and good still remembered, so he view as "powerfull person".
>>
No. 18365
>>18354
posted the man who praises bandera and hitler collaborators unironically
>>
No. 18369
>>18362
Well to be fair, arms production wouldn't have been anywhere near what it was without American trucks flowing into the country letting them turn more domestic vehicle factories into tank factories. It was something like 2/3rds of Soviet non-combat/transport vehicles that were made in America and transported over and they were far better than the Soviet trucks at the time. The Soviet ones were 10 years out of date and based on civilian models while the Studerbaker 2&1/2 ton was modern and designed with the army in mind. Not mentioning the support in other areas like rations, guns and even aircraft and tanks (American tanks were only ~10% of the Soviet force but the American-built T48 comprised all of their halftracks and that's not insignificant). Whether or not the Soviets could have won without it is in the same league as 'could the Germans have pulled Barbarossa off? though' The answer is 'it depends'. Those hypotheticals start going into policy and grand changes in strategy that then affect how a campaign is structured and what assets are available until it just becomes pure fantasy rather than hypotheticals in many situations.
t. military logistics studier
>>
No. 18374 Kontra
>>18369
This is how history of WW2 learned in west?
>>
No. 18375
21 kB, 121 × 112
>>18374
Indeed, SU won all by itself from might of patriotism of Soviet people and buckwheat.
>>
No. 18376
>>18374
We mostly do the Pacific Theatre here at least. A little bit of North Africa too. It's more relevant to the Australian aspect of WWII history than the rest since we were either in the theatre or have notable stories (Rats of Tobruk and the Scrap Iron Flotilla). We also learn (correctly) that we bludged an army from the yanks but they took all the local women because they got paid more :-DDD
>>
No. 18377
>>18374
What indeed was helpfull for SU is of cource High quality aviation fuel. some amounts of food and trucks. Some electronics maybe. Rest of this was not that usefull, not even in near amounts that change war. Their tanks was trash.
But Murricans who joined war in 1944 where end of germany was only matter of time managed to loot maximum things without loosing anything, so yeah, in this case they can be proud that they are winners.

But I know westernies was teached whole life that USA is great and that they did everything and that without Land Lease was 100% free and without it hitler would won.

>>18375
From ginat amount of humans and resourses, together with a couple of good executed operations - defence of moscow (stop of blitzkrieg tactics) - battle in stalingrad (stop of 1942 south offence) - Kursk battle (elemination of majority of german offence forces, afte which they was unable to start any new major offence operations.
>>
No. 18378
>>18377
>some trucks
There were about 150,000 more American trucks in Soviet Service than there were Soviet ones, so tell me where those extra 350,000 trucks are going to come from without slowing production anywhere else and thus slowing armoured reinforcements? It goes beyond 'some' trucks, it was a fuckload of trucks man and without trucks, you don't have a war quite frankly. Electronics were definitely a valuable import because it's well documented by even Soviet sources that their airborne radios were crap. Also, the tanks came in as stopgaps when they needed solutions fast. They eventually upgunned Shermans with 76mm guns in 1944 and they were even quite well liked according to crew accounts. Aircraft contributions were also significant. P-39s and P-63s were exceedingly common, the latter seeing some use up to 1949 even, and were also appreciated for not shitting themselves in the cold like many planes did. The P-40 was not particularly well-liked but it was better than what they had at the time and allowed the VVS to contest the air over Leningrad until better aircraft production could be ramped up to useful levels. I'm not saying that lend-lease carried the Soviet Union. I'm saying that it picked up the slack in certain areas so that they could focus their efforts on other things which was kind of the point of the program.

>But Murricans who joined war in 1944 where end of germany was only matter of time managed to loot maximum things without loosing anything, so yeah, in this case they can be proud that they are winners.
Just like the Soviets in the Pacific? Glass houses. Also, they joined in late 1942 with Operation Torch.

But hey. You want to deny reality and declare that lend-lease being relevant is all western lies, that's cool. You do you. It's pretty obvious you don't want to discuss this in good faith.
>>
No. 18379 Kontra
>>18378
A correction because I do want to do this in good faith. First sentence has some typos. There's meant to be a comma after the first number and the 350,000 is meant to be the same 15,000.

>There were 150,000; more American ones in service than there were Soviet ones.

The punctuation changes the meaning of the sentence.
t. awake for 36 hours posting expert
>>
No. 18381
841 kB, 3000 × 2000
308 kB, 870 × 600
>>18378
>There were about 150,000 more American trucks in Soviet Service than there were Soviet ones, so tell me where those extra 350,000 trucks are going to come from without slowing production anywhere else and thus slowing armoured reinforcements?
From fact that this is not computer game and USSR not started war with 0 tucks? Almost all possible personal vehicels and from many kolhoses was confiscated for army usage.
>Electronics were definitely a valuable import because it's well documented by even Soviet sources that their airborne radios were crap.
It's was valuable, trought army was by default builded way to use minimum of radios, especially it somes to Tank forces where only command tanks had radio
>They eventually upgunned Shermans with 76mm guns in 1944 and they were even quite well liked according to crew accounts
American tanks was liked by crews mostly because their comfort, not actual combat usage. And compare to 35,467 builded T-34, 8231 Т-70 light tanks, 3225 heavy KV-1 it was raindrop in the sea. Not to metion that american and british tanks was inferior, and to mid/late war sherman even with modifications like Firefly could not properly compete to german late tanks, not even metion soviet late machines like IS-2 and ISU-152

>I'm saying that it picked up the slack in certain areas so that they could focus their efforts on other things which was kind of the point of the program.
I don't want to say that we was best and win at everything. We just had more resourses and won with heavy loses - heavist in any war ever since dinosaurs vs. climmate change in late Cretaceous
How we lost in start of war is just lame. Thousands of tanks was lost in first days of war. Zero organisation, no proper defence lines, entire armies was cut by german strikes and surrender. Only because we had many territory we was able to win, since commanders had chances to make even critical mistakes and then had new armies and still had territory to manuver.

Even after victory at moscov our initial counter-attacks was failed, and then we had summer of 1942 when soviet army just litteraly RUN from germans trought ukraine to caucasus.

What I want say that even of cource land lease was nice thing - it was not that critical. It was really not enough to make real awesome change in everything. Physically it was impossible to transport by ships so many resourses. Add to that german submarines that destroyed many and many ships with this resourses. Add to it bad organisation and some element of actual corruption when some things like food often not did it to army.
USSR still won germany becaus german staff did concretic mistakes (first of them was not finishing britain, and than fail of paratroopers at crete and remove of this type of units from german units entierly right before war with SU). Of cource more people would die if so, but at this point nobody counted losses, lol.
>>
No. 18390
>>18381
>Zis-42
There's a reason that I was talking about halftracks within the armour category. The ones I was referring to (the imported M3) didn't have a Soviet equivalent. I believe that one went into small-batch production before the war but didn't see much if any use. The M3s were armoured transports that were often given guns, not prime movers. Outside of the armour, Soviet halftracks existed, but they were never big on them. They performed fine in the conditions but not well enough to really justify going deep on them. Should have been more specific.

>From fact that this is not computer game and USSR not started war with 0 tucks?
They had them, but if they had enough for their starting position in the war, they didn't have enough for when they were building up and they lost over 50% of their vehicles in the opening struggles.

I'll agree with you though, in terms of raw numbers of combat forces, it wasn't really relevant to victory, but it helped plug some gaps that would have made life difficult. They weren't great solutions but they were a temporary solution until a proper one could be sent from a Soviet factory. Better a squadron of Shermans supporting your troops than nothing at all, and eventually you can replace them with your own tanks which are better.

However, on the materiel side of things, it was plain critical to receive the support. Even though Soviet equipment was the majority in most areas, they often had a vast requirement on non-Soviet resources, or resources that had been lost. Communications equipment like phones and phone lines were supplied in huge amounts and imported aluminium was important for aviation and somewhere between 40-50% of Soviet-built aircraft used WAllied aluminium, and while the Yak-1 got by with plywood, she was fragile both in the air and to the elements. Aluminium aircraft were just plain better. Other things like rubber, certain types of steel (Soviets could produce it, but needed more than they could produce to build enough tanks), precision machinery and so on were also vastly imported to keep the factories going. Alongside the trucks, rolling stock was also supplied, and in great numbers too. Now rolling stock is actually interesting because the Soviet railyards were well stocked. Problem is that they weren't able to be replaced because many locomotive factories had been converted into tank factories, so any losses were absorbed by imports instead, letting them both replace lost stock and keep the factories producing tanks.

The Soviets won with their own blood, but American supplies really helped them get to where they needed to be to pay up. It's a bit old, but 'Feeding the Bear' by Hubert Van Tuyll is an excellent book on the subject.

>Physically it was impossible to transport by ships so many resourses.
You underestimate the scale of the arctic convoys. ~1400 cargo ships plus escorts running back and forth pretty much non-stop for 4 years can carry a lot of supplies.

>Now they say that the allies never helped us, but it can't be denied that the Americans gave us so many goods without which we wouldn't have been able to form our reserves and continue the war. We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. We didn’t have anything to charge our rifle cartridges with. The Americans really saved us with their gunpowder and explosives. And how much sheet steel they gave us! How could we have produced our tanks without American steel? But now they make it seem as if we had an abundance of all that. Without American trucks we wouldn’t have had anything to pull our artillery with.
t. the man Zhukov himself
>>
No. 18403
128 kB, 640 × 845
42 kB, 300 × 392
It is said that this is a page from this textbook.
>>
No. 18404
189 kB, 800 × 529
72 kB, 900 × 600
90 kB, 1024 × 768
380 kB, 900 × 676
>>18390
>There's a reason that I was talking about halftracks within the armour category. The ones I was referring to (the imported M3) didn't have a Soviet equivalent. I believe that one went into small-batch production before the war but didn't see much if any use. The M3s were armoured transports that were often given guns, not prime movers. Outside of the armour, Soviet halftracks existed, but they were never big on them. They performed fine in the conditions but not well enough to really justify going deep on them. Should have been more specific.

Soveit army not used that much of light armored vehicels, since many tactics of it was changed. Even light tanks was builded in this numbers mostly because front need any tanks and T-70 was pretty easy to build. You most often will see that attacking armies on all photos using not light armored vehicels, but pic1 - Т-34 was even called "soldier's bus".
From trucks and cars we also made a copies of some american jeeps, like pic2. Or things that more easy to build than half-trucks like pic3. Of cource there was shortage on light vehicels in army, espessialy after initial losses, but even all help from west and all confiscation not helped to cover it, in early war red army in majority of times or used tanks as "vehicels that do anything" or what more often - horses, which become main driven force for carry artilery.

>However, on the materiel side of things, it was plain critical to receive the support.
Yeah, material and fueal that requred high technology to produce, when even SU had resources, it has no that many factories who can make from raw material final product, it was nice addition to have. However, what was delivered by Land Lease not even near covered requrements of military situation. In 1941 and untill summer 1942 losses was heavy, and often this amount of small baches of planes builded from alluminium was immideatly destroyed and requred replacement. Planes like IL-2 was assault front-aviation planes that suffered heavy losses. So untill late war, absolute majority of soviet aviation was wooden-paper builded machines with inexperienced crews.

>You underestimate the scale of the arctic convoys. ~1400 cargo ships plus escorts running back and forth pretty much non-stop for 4 years can carry a lot of supplies.
There was 78 convoys if I remember correctly, they also not run from june to september of 1942 (during most heavy and dangerous situation on south front that can easelly put end to SU if not Stalingrad victories) and from marth and november of 1943 (during time of most important soviet initial offencive operations, that destroyed german attacking forces that they will never replanish)

From this, like 1700 tanks, hundreds of planes and cars, thousands tonns of materials still somewhere on bottom of norwegian and barenz seas, thanks to kriegsmarine and luftwaffe

>t. the man Zhukov himself
Fuck this man, one of the most assholes from command staff. More political than command, he'll do anything, follow most crazy stalin order just to serve him. result of his actons - most terrible losses in operations where losses can be 10 or even 20 times smaller. This man will say anything that will give him political points, often changed his opinion on things and overall
>>
No. 18405
2 kB, 1200 × 764
>>18403
Happy for estonia
>>
No. 18427
>>18403
With brexit that retarded circlejerk of a book needs to be updated. UK is now on the periphery. Which basically means it is a Franco-German circlejerk.
>>
No. 18428
>>18427
Well, now that you had to mention it I'd also say it needs readjusting. From what I've seen Europe proper centres around the Franco-German border (Baden-Württemberg etc.) flowing up into the North Sea along Flanders. It feels like a completely different world to anywhere else in Europe.

Whatever happens Britain will still be a European core by dint of sheer economic scale and broad regulatory and diplomatic convergence. Stop shit stirring.
>>
No. 18431
>>18428
I'm not shit stirring
>as a formal, more or less homogenous cultural region
>tightly interdependent economic and political system
Without EU it is quite literally by definition no longer a tightly interdependent political system, and it remains in doubt as to whether it would even be so interdependent economically. Regarding the culture etc., I thought you called yourself distinct from the continentals? Not that it matters because that whole map is a wank stain anyway.
>>
No. 18445
>>18428
>Whatever happens Britain will still be a European core by dint of sheer economic scale
after brexit britain will become soon politically as well as economically closer to the usa than to the european core (whatever that means). that's what brexit is about, isn't it.
in terms of "culture" britain might already be closer to the usa and other anglo countries than to continental europe. it actually is for some time, i think. in the early 2000s i was astonished to learn that native brits would refer to anything outside the british isles as "europe", not considering the british isles to be part of that "europe".
>>
No. 18487
36 kB, 380 × 447
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/russia-is-about-to-be-isolated-from-the-internet-its-all-part-of-preparations-for-war/news-story/e3232395041286630fbd08cb10965efc

Our goverment created new law to make "russian" part of internet independed from other parts and they ordered to test it untill april.

I think I'll will speed up my plan about moving into ukraine, before it is real to escape russia without gunfight
>>
No. 18493
>>18487
I saw this. Dunno how long they intend to 'test' it, but it appears to be temporary. From what I understand, it involves centralising some aspects of runet traffic so that 1) it isn't reliant on offshore servers to just function and 2) so that it's easier to control flow of information in and out of runet into the international web in case of war.

I'm inclined to agree with some who say that it's just a cover to make Russian internet censorship easier. It wouldn't surprise me if the recent spats the communications watchdog had with Google had something to do with this passing the lower house. Seems too convenient to be a coincidence.
>>
No. 18495
167 kB, 1000 × 690
>>18493
You are right that censurship is secondary goal, but main goal as usual - taking money. Even before law was accepted, some money from budget already was cut. Increased tariffs for people + millions more from budget wil "dissapear" magically.
>>
No. 18505
32 kB, 514 × 352
When He Jiankui announced that he had “edited” two embryos in hopes of ensuring they would become immune to the virus that causes AIDS, he also announced his opposition to using the same gene-editing technologies to enhance children’s IQs.

A different approach aimed at enhancing IQ is far less fantastic. We’re calling it embryo profiling, and it could be done today.

Embryo profiling capitalizes on the ability to add up the minuscule effects associated with thousands of genetic variants to create what’s called a polygenic score. On the basis of this score, researchers can make predictions about an embryo’s likelihood of exhibiting given traits, from developing cardiovascular disease to going far in school. The latter, known as educational attainment and often taken to be a proxy for IQ, is a trait for which researchers claim to have made significant progress.

The practical value of predictions based on polygenic scores in humans is still the subject of intense scientific debate. But the equivalent of calculating polygenic scores of sires and dams (though not embryos) is already being used to breed cows with enhanced milk production.

Not waiting for the scientific debate to be settled about the accuracy of predictions regarding traits as complex as human IQ, a new company, Genomic Prediction, is now offering prospective parents the ability to identify and avoid implanting embryos that are likely to have very low IQs.

However, Stephen Hsu, one of the founders of Genomic Prediction, has described his vision of the day when prospective parents can use genome profiling to select the “smartest” embryo, with a gain of 15 IQ points compared with the also-rans.

https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/embryo-profiling-iq-almost-here/?utm_content=bufferb508e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter_organic
>>
No. 18508
>>18505
I hope they cure baldness
>>
No. 18512
>>18505
Honestly it's kind of useless regardless because IQ tests afaik don't actually accurately predict things like abstract thinking. A great deal of it is a pretty excruciatingly narrow range of pattern prediction and spatial intelligence, i.e. rotating shapes inside your head. Maybe there's new ones now but I think if you really wanted to enhance general mental performance and human intellectual development you'd be looking more at something like Gardnerian theories on intelligence. Not to be too stereotypical, but for instance some of the best scientific minds have been complete space cadets with the very real caricature of the absent minded professor, or a truly gifted but incredibly flaky artist, or in another sense an NSA analyst who might suck at having people skills (there is a joke what do you know it is an extroverted NSA agent? He looks at your shoes when speaking). Meanwhile you can have a, say HUMINT or actor type, or perhaps a complete buffoon of a hucksters businessman or sociopath who's highly adept at socializing but has little in the way of book smarts.

The problem is you are not talking about one or even a cluster of genes. The Russian fox experiment should come to mind. So while I am all for enhancing the overall intelligence and capacities of the human race, I think we should actually do so intelligently, which I have no faith whatsoever in some shitty corporate IQ test ever doing.
>>
No. 18513
>>18512
Good point, once epigenetics becomes publicly acceptable I will fear that the human genome will converge towards a certain gene and with it we will lose biologic diversity which in some cases is valuable. This can be a huge problem because A majority of the population that share the same genes is an unknown territory for us and with it we are more prone to biological disasters where those individuals who would be deemed fit to survice such an outcast would be pruned out in the name of eugenics.
>>
No. 18515
>>18508
Don't they? They already replant hair.
>>
No. 18520
>>18505
>>18512
>>18513
Here's a good longread on the topic if anybody cares: https://www.gwern.net/Embryo-selection
>>
No. 18523
>>18512
First of all I want to emphasize that I don't believe intelligence, however we define it, has any bearing on a person's moral worth or value as a human being.

That said, although I am not an expert in the field by any means, from the results I have seen I do think that IQ is a valid measure of 'intelligence'. First of all, it's a robust predictor of outcomes in socially important domains like educational attainment and workplace performance. In fact, it seems to do better than pretty much any other measure of intelligence at predicting success in school. IQ scores also have a number of striking correlations with certain physiological values such as reaction time, regional fractional anisotropy, brain volume, and some measures of brain metabolism. Also, the covariance between IQ and cortical thickness during development is mostly genetically mediated.
>>
No. 18524
>>18513
>once epigenetics becomes publicly acceptable

Could you explain what you mean by this? Sorry if I've misunderstood, but I don't think the general public tends to have normative attitudes regarding processes like cytosine methylation or histone acetylation.
>>
No. 18527
>>18512
even positive eugenics that do not have pure selfish and hostile, destructive intend towards other humans are likely to do more harm than good to human evolution, much like a lot of animal or plant breeders actually don't do good for the species they seek to "optimize". i'm afraid even the smartest human brain is extremely limited and not fit at all to design any truly "optimized" species from the ground up, same goes for optimizing a very complex feature such as intelligence, which isn't even properly scientifically defined yet. bioscience should therefore concentrate on improving conventional medicine and biomechanics should concentrate (don't stop research on genetics, bur only research should be allowed) on enhancing already existing features, but should not alter the human genome itself in order to create something new, what some enthusiastic people might deem "enhanced humans". by doing so a lot of opportunities for evolution, including truly enhanced intelligence, might get destroyed forever. modern cattle breeders seek (but failed so far) to recreate the auerochs, which was basically cattle unaltered by human decisions for genetic "optimization", because they deem the auerochs all of a sudden "superior" to cattle optimized by generations of cattle breeders before them. another example: i heard some welsh beekeepers finally managed to get their bees to deal with the varroa mite - by not interfering in the procreation process of their colonies at all
t. beekeeper ernst
>>
No. 18535
240 kB, 642 × 909
It's not just that my shithole country is such a police state now
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-ne-school-guardian-guns-20190213-story.html
It's that we're wasting so much money it. This right after we already had armed guards patrolling prison warehouses for children aka schools and the guy fucking hid while there was an active shooter.

This is beyond cyberpunk tier too btw CoreCivic aka CCA is a massive for profit corporation that handles our prisons. They are generally unsafe shitholes too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoreCivic and apparently CC has gotten the contract for building all the FEMA camps they're putting Mexicans in. I note this because I'm not sure if foreigners even realize the full scale to which this shithole is being privatized. Apparently the armed guards patrolling the hallways in Florida are not even technically operating under law enforcement but more like some weird state sanctioned private military type outfit from what I can gather.

Although, there's also nothing new under the sun. Our increasing reliance on PMCs or "private military contractors" has another name: mercenaries. I think John Glubb was absolutely right in his appraisal including the late stage decay of empires relying more and more on mercenaries. The fucked up thing though is it's looking increasingly like school children are going to be guarded by them.

I also find it absolutely disturbing no one is talking about this turning into a police state. When you make it illegal to not send your child to school and you turn the school into literally a prison surrounded by armed guards, then you'd have raised a whole generation who have no idea what freedom even looks like and considers tyranny to be normal. Strangely enough, when you tell the typical fat dumb bydlo American it is a corporation doing it not government they seem fine with that.
>>
No. 18537
>>18527
>on enhancing already existing features, but should not alter the human genome itself in order to create something new

Isn't that exactly how embryo screening and animal breeding in general work though? I mean, it's not as if these enterprises involve making novel insertions or swapping out bases in new and unknown ways. Rather, they're just picking out a subset of existing variation to achieve a selection response in some quantitative trait. The unique thing about PGS guided embryo selection is that you're selecting the progeny rather than the parents.
>>
No. 18539
>>18537
> is that you're selecting the progeny rather than the parents.
And that's part of the problem. By the time an adult specimen has had time to procreate you can generally see any issues it has. Plus you're talking about gene editing humans, not breeding corn. Moreover the real nightmare of this is going to be that corporations are going to end up patenting it https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/testing/genepatents
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_patent

Do Note: special attention paid to the exact phrasing
>>on enhancing already existing features, but should not alter the human genome itself in order to create something new
There are more than a few reasons to not doing this, the one of which being that according to US law you cannot patent natural already existing genomic sequences, however you can patent newly created ones. It would be nice to limit the nightmarishness of the genetic age as much as possible.
>>
No. 18540
>>18539
>you're talking about gene editing humans

But we're not. Rather, we're talking about selecting the embryos of humans. Editing is another matter entirely from a technical and biological perspective.
>>
No. 18542
647 kB, 991 × 1024
>US parents have reported a mysterious phenomenon affecting their toddlers who have begun speaking in unusual accents. Researchers now believe they have tracked the source of foreign influence: Peppa Pig.

>Peppa Pig is a popular children’s TV show about a forever-young, female pig and her animal friends, all of whom speak in British accents as they adventure around a fictional town in the United Kingdom. The show boasts over seven million YouTube subscribers. Reports of the so-called ‘Peppa Effect’ have been flooding in from parents across the US.

However, children have very malleable minds, and this nice interesting effect is rather going to be lost when they start to interact with society.
>>
No. 18546
>>18535
I mean, what's a copper but a state-sanctioned mafia enforcer? What's a soldier but a state-sanctioned mercenary? I find fault in abuses which happen whoever the patron is rather than the fact that someone is hiring out skills that they may have. I mean, people have to eat after all and throughout history, one of the biggest concerns for an army is pay. Without it people will leave, simple as that. It's not as though the state equivalents of those professions are doing it for fuzzies.
>>
No. 18547
>>18546
Fighting for defense of your country is certifiably different than just going "sure I'll kill people of you pay me"

The problem is empires themselves have typically long since worn out any pretense of actually fighting for your country.
>>
No. 18551
>>18547
See how many stick around when there's no pay. Topically speaking, that problem nearly killed the revolution in its infancy. The soldiers were deserting because they weren't getting their pay. Noble ideals are all well and good, but you can't buy bread with them.
>>
No. 18561
>>18537
>Isn't that exactly how embryo screening and animal breeding in general work though?
yes. in the end it makes no difference whether you first take samples of embryonic genetic material (pgd/pgs - already commercial for humans in certain eastern euro countries such as cz, by the way) in order to make a decision affecting the genetic lineage of a species or you interfere before that (artificial fertilization or choosing parents). the latter is how i work with bee queens, however i'm becoming more and more sceptical to the whole practice of breeding. i rarely buy queens of "good" lineage, but mostly produce them myself and select only after 1 very broad criteria, nothing too specific. i don't care much about sought after traits such as "tameness" anymore. this one is certainly convenient for us beekeepers, however i'm afraid that in the long run it might prove disadvantaguous for the bee organism under actual external threats to the colony, such as an assault by asian hornets, fire, water and so on.
>>
No. 18568
>>18561
>the latter is how i work with bee queens, however i'm becoming more and more sceptical to the whole practice of breeding. i rarely buy queens of "good" lineage, but mostly produce them myself and select only after 1 very broad criteria, nothing too specific. i don't care much about sought after traits such as "tameness" anymore. this one is certainly convenient for us beekeepers, however i'm afraid that in the long run it might prove disadvantaguous for the bee organism under actual external threats to the colony, such as an assault by asian hornets, fire, water and so on.

As someone who knows little about bee keeping or bee breeding, this post was very interesting to me. I think you may be right about the wisdom of 'optimizing' a trait like tameness: ultimately, this could have unforeseen negative effects on the health of the hive. Certainly it would make the bees more dependent on the keeper for protection. How long have you been keeping bees?
>>
No. 18570
>>18527
>modern cattle breeders seek (but failed so far) to recreate the auerochs, which was basically cattle unaltered by human decisions for genetic "optimization",

Hmmm. I wonder if any ancient DNA labs have managed to fish high quality genomes out of aurochs bones. I guess there's probably not a lot of funding going into ancient cow DNA research though.
>>
No. 18584
>>18527

>because they deem the auerochs all of a sudden "superior" to cattle optimized by generations of cattle breeders

Where did you get that from?
They try to breed the Aurochs back because it was a native species of the Eurasian steppes
and forests until a few hundreds years ago, not because they consider it "superior".

>>18570

At least 2 different Aurochs DNA sequence analysis have been published.
>>
No. 18586
this recently created website uses some kind of AI magic called GAN to generate believable images of people that don't actually exist. pretty spooky:

https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/
>>
No. 18587
>>18586
Why do computers still suck so bad at getting hair right though? I would've thought that's an easier part.
>>
No. 18588
2,0 MB, 915 × 914
>>18587
dunno. clearly there are still some problems that need to be worked out. for instance, the algorithm sometimes adds too many wrinkles on a face that is otherwise younger looking.
>>
No. 18590
>>18588
It seems to keep doing weird shit to eyebrows too. How is this being generated?
>>
No. 18599
>>18590
Most likely with generative adversarial networks.
>>
No. 18614
25 kB, 285 × 350
>>18568
>Certainly it would make the bees more dependent on the keeper for protection
yes. and that's not good for the bees, in my opinion.
>How long have you been keeping bees?
i was introduced to beekeeping when i was little, around age 8. when i became older i got more interested in other things and also moved to a big city for a while. however, i eventually moved back to the village in the mid 2000s and got into beekeeping again around 10 years ago.

>>18584
>Where did you get that from?
cattle/bison breeders/farmers.
>They try to breed the Aurochs back because it was a native species of the Eurasian steppes
and forests until a few hundreds years ago, not because they consider it "superior".
ernst please. "auerochs" meat (beef from cattle such as heckrind, that is) is already marketed and sold. <spoiler>wouldn't you enjoy eating an auerochs' entrecôte? i probably would.</spoiler>.
the most effort put into recreating the auerochs is certainly because cattle breeders hope that the auerochs might possess a number of desirable traits, e.g. robust bone structure. kind of like charolais, wagyu or angus are considered "superior" to cattles races primarily used for milk production.

https://www.meinbiorind.de/auerochsen/
https://www.mainpost.de/regional/bad-kissingen/So-leben-Auerochsen-in-der-Rhoen

>At least 2 different Aurochs DNA sequence analysis have been published.
i only know about a scottish geneticist who donated his findings to the tauros programme in 2012. may i ask what's the other one?
>>
No. 18658
>>18614
>scottish geneticist who donated his findings to the tauros programme in 2012

This is most likely this one:

>A Complete Mitochondrial Genome Sequence from a Mesolithic Wild Aurochs (Bos primigenius)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2822870/

and a follow up paper:

>Genome sequencing of the extinct Eurasian wild aurochs, Bos primigenius, illuminates the phylogeography and evolution of cattle

https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-015-0790-2

The second one:

>Ancient DNA extracted from Danish aurochs (Bos primigenius): genetic diversity and preservation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22188739

And there has also been DNA extracted and analyzed from the last alive specimen of Aurochs:

>Ancient DNA analysis of Scandinavian medieval drinking horns and the horn of the last aurochs bull

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327862066_Ancient_DNA_analysis_of_Scandinavian_medieval_drinking_horns_and_the_horn_of_the_last_aurochs_bull

I even found another one where DNA was extracted from a fragment of aurochs fossil bone found in the Pisz Forest, Poland:

https://wwww.unboundmedicine.com/medline/citation/23971194/Complete_mitochondrial_genome_of_wild_aurochs__Bos_primigenius__reconstructed_from_ancient_DNA_

I remember also reading somewhere that DNA anylysis revealed a relationship between the European Bison and the Aurochs, so I'd say meanwhile there are at
least 4 independent analysis of Aurochs DNA.
>>
No. 18690
17 kB, 300 × 261
I can't believe how the media is reporting this stupid shit
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/world/americas/venezuela-aid-us-air-force.html
>US military sending 200 tons of humanitarian aid
Yeah, nah m8, that's a bunch of utter bullshit and I have no idea why journalists are blindly reporting it like that. This is quite clearly munitions and military equipment Trump administration with people like Abrams and Bolton trying to start yet another coup and possibly civil war in South America. It isn't even like they haven't been completely open about that fact. Are people really so fucking dumb they actually think this is all just "humanitarian aid"?

For info on who this evil dracula looking motherfucker is who's behind it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams
>He is best known[6][7] for his involvement in the Iran-Contra scandal during the Reagan administration, which led to his conviction in 1991 on two misdemeanor counts of unlawfully withholding information from Congress. He was later pardoned by George H.W. Bush. During George W. Bush's first term, he served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director on the National Security Council for Near East and North African Affairs. At the start of Bush's second term, Abrams was promoted to be his Deputy National Security Advisor for Global Democracy Strategy, in charge of promoting Bush's strategy of "advancing democracy abroad." In the Bush administration, Abrams was a key architect behind the Iraq War.

A Democrat congresswoman https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/14/someone-is-not-being-honest-elliott-abrams-trumps-venezuela-envoy-trailed-by-mistrust/ is calling him out on this shit too
>As Assistant Secretary of State, Abrams advocated for aid to Guatemala under then dictator Efraín Ríos Montt. Ríos Montt came to power via a coup in 1982, overcoming the forces General Fernando Romeo Lucas García. Thirty years later, Ríos Montt was found guilty of overseeing a campaign of mass murder and torture of indigenous people in Guatemala. Ríos Montt, who claimed he had no operational control of the forces involved, was convicted of genocide against the Maya-Ixil population.[19]

>brams frequently defended the human rights record of the El Salvador government and attacked human rights groups as communist sympathizers when they criticized the El Salvador government.[10] In early 1982, when reports of the El Mozote massacre of hundreds of civilians by the military in El Salvador began appearing in U.S. media, Abrams told a Senate committee that the reports of hundreds of deaths at El Mozote "were not credible," and that "it appears to be an incident that is at least being significantly misused, at the very best, by the guerrillas."[20] The massacre had come at a time when the Reagan administration was attempting to bolster the human rights image of the Salvadoran military. Abrams implied that reports of a massacre were simply FMLN propaganda and denounced U.S. investigative reports of the massacre as misleading. In March 1993, the Salvadoran Truth Commission reported that over 500 civilians were "deliberately and systematically" executed in El Mozote in December 1981 by forces affiliated with the Salvadoran government.[21]

>Also in 1993, documentation emerged suggesting that some Reagan administration officials could have known about El Mozote and other human rights violations from the beginning.[22] However, in July 1993, an investigation commissioned by Clinton Secretary of State Warren Christopher into the State Department's "activities and conduct" with regard to human rights in El Salvador during the Reagan years found that, despite U.S. funding of the Salvadoran government that committed the massacre at El Mozote, individual U.S. personnel "performed creditably and occasionally with personal bravery in advancing human rights in El Salvador."[23] An unrepentant Abrams claimed that Washington's policy in El Salvador was a "fabulous achievement."[24] In a 1998 interview, Abrams remarked, "While it was important to us to promote the cause of human rights in Central America it was more important to prevent a communist takeover in El Salvador."[25]

>When Congress shut down funding for the Contras' efforts to overthrow Nicaragua's Sandinista government with the 1982 Boland Amendment, members of the Reagan administration began looking for other avenues for funding the group.[26] Congress opened a couple of such avenues when it modified the Boland Amendment for fiscal year 1986 by approving $27 million in direct aid to the Contras and allowing the administration to legally solicit funds for the Contras from foreign governments.[27] Neither the direct aid, nor any foreign contributions, could be used to purchase weapons.[27]

>Guided by the new provisions of the modified Boland Amendment, Abrams flew to London in August 1986 and met secretly with Bruneian defense minister General Ibnu to solicit a $10-million contribution from the Sultan of Brunei.[28][29] Ultimately, the Contras never received this money because a clerical error in Oliver North's office (a mistyped account number) sent the Bruneian money to the wrong Swiss bank account.[28]
So in other words the Trump admin and his neocon cronies are currently sending 200 tons of military equipment to Venezuela to start a coup and violent civil war to topple Maduro right now.
>>
No. 18692 Kontra
>>18690
>Trump admin and his neocon cronies are currently sending 200 tons of military equipment

proof?

Also why do you even care?
>>
No. 18694
>>18692
>proof?
What, you want me to photograph a bunch of crates of machine guns and mortars onboard some C130s? It's pretty fucking obvious dude. If you had any idea who this neocon Elliot Abrams is, or anything about John Bolton, that already should make it obvious. Add in the fact the US has been openly calling for Maduro to step down and backing this Guiado guy, that there was a failed attempt to assassinate Maduro using a drone already https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45073385 or that within the last month Trump has already openly talked about considering using a military option to overthrow Maduro https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-trump-military-venezuela-20190128-story.html and well you get the idea.

>Also why do you even care?
Why the fuck wouldn't I care about my country taking fucked up actions? Even if you are a totally amoral sociopath let me put it this way: seeing how splendidly the chaos in the region turned out for Europe from Iraq and Syria and countless refugees, do you think it's a great idea for the US to create violence and chaos and millions of refugees in a destabilized region just to the south of us?
>>
No. 18702 Kontra
>>18694
>What, you want me to photograph a bunch of crates of machine guns and mortars onboard some C130s?

Yes.
>It's pretty fucking obvious

No

>Why the fuck wouldn't I care about my country taking fucked up actions?

As in?

>chaos in the region turned out for Europe from Iraq and Syria and countless refugees

You meean Obama should have killed Assad instead letting him and Russia doing all this fucked up shit? Yeah, that would have probably been a good thing. Still I don't see what that has to do with Venezuela.
>>
No. 18716
>>18702
I'm not going to hold your hand. Read post >>18690
I'm not going to repeat myself to an illiterate.
>>
No. 18737
28 kB, 869 × 527
>>18716
Your argument is founded upon conjecture. There is no armed conflict in Venezuela and Juan Guaidó has requested the humanitarian aid which will be brought in by civilian volunteers from Columbia and Brazil.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47269830

Trump's comments refusing to rule out military intervention is also broadly correct with how modern international law approaches state failure. Although it will need to get far worse before any R2P justification could be employed, Maduro is reliant on military force alone to remain in power which can and is spiralling.
>>
No. 18742 Kontra
>>18737
>humanitarian aid
Humanitarian aid from the side I like: help for poor people, don't even dare to doubt that it's not weapons supply undercover
Humanitarian aid from the side I don't like: weapon supply undercover, don't even dare to doubt it's not help for poor people
Kontraing because I don't want to participate in the discussion. It's hard to discuss such news without politically distorted view.
>>
No. 18755
8,2 MB, 720 × 404, 0:50
Reminds me of the new Houellebecq novel, maybe soon they'll arm themselves
>>
No. 18758
>>18737
>Trump's comments refusing to rule out military intervention is also broadly correct with how modern international law approaches state failure.
Which of course makes it right. It really wasn't that bad to blanket half of Vietnam with Agent Orange, because the Brits had established a precedent in Malaysia.
>>
No. 18760
>>18758
If I wanted to listen to moral scolds editorializing about the evils of the postwar international order I'd read The Intercept.
>>
No. 18764
>>18760
Why partake in discussion when you discard arguments with allegorical asides instead of acknowledging them and replying based on their content?
>>
No. 18765
>>18760
Didn't we just get subjected to like a solid year or two of ranting about how Trump would save us all from dumb shit like military adventurism and nation wrecking ventures among other things? Because I distinctly recall a whole lot of arguments not that long ago including bitching about "neocohenism" because I distinctly remember that. The other thing is fucking none of this really concerns us and most of it makes us as Americans less safe, in addition to that whole genocides and war crimes sort of things that only profits a small clique of nation wreckers, while we get all the terrorists and refugees as benefits. Because if there's one thing we all learned, it is how listening to these assholes about arming terrorists and dictators is a GREAT fucking idea. Because both Gulf Wars and Vietnam really defended our freedoms and in no way hurt us, let alone the innocent people our government killed in those wars right?

t. Not even the guy talking about agent orange
>>
No. 18770
>>18742
So you have no proofs but fuck America therefore those bars of soap are now C4 and the toothbrushes detonators. This isn't a workable way of doing business, if you're suspicious of packages then look into what transparency is going on.

>>18758
>Which of course makes it right

Yes, I think it is given that at some point the international community has a responsibility to step-in or if not that sovereignty is effectively lost beyond a point. What happens next is where things get complicated but even Grotius, who enunciated the very notion of sovereignty, foresaw limits to a tyrants authority. This sort of thing is important because the rules of the game are there to principally preserve the peace to save mankind and secondarily that some kind of human rights norms are to be protected to save man's soul.

Now what Trump didn't say was the US was going to do anything but merely that it was on the table. He could've voiced it more diplomatically but the statement is neither a direct threat nor a blank cheque for Maduro to do whatever he wants.

>It really wasn't that bad to blanket half of Vietnam with Agent Orange, because the Brits had established a precedent in Malaysia.

Well, yes. Acting in complete disregard for international law is more serious offence than exploiting a lacuna.
>>
No. 18771 Kontra
>>18770
>So you have no proofs
I was supposed to provide them? I only noticed this interesting pattern, that repeats every new occurence of humanitarian catastrophe. I don't know shit about Venezuela situation, and I am not willing to make myself more aware of the situation there. Humanitarian aid discussion caught my eye and I said my personal opinion.
Calling humanitarian aid of the side you don't like weapons is not something new.
>>
No. 18773
>>18765
>Because both Gulf Wars and Vietnam really defended our freedoms and in no way hurt us, let alone the innocent people our government killed in those wars right?

Addressing this point, there is a definite tendency toward ignoring cases where it did work or those where nothing was done at great cost. I think the optimum case is that the Rwandan genocide was a disaster (both internally and its spillover) that could relatively easily have been prevented but if it had I'm sure many people would jump at the chance to call it another exercise in imperialism by Bill Clinton.

American interests are almost certainly threatened by the collapse of a state and subsequent humanitarian disaster in the region with the potential spillover having knock-on effects right up-to the US border. I think that much is a given on proximity alone given Europe's problems with Syrian, Sudanese and now even Iranian migrant pressure.

>>18771
So you're not really saying anything of substance. Not "there should be some independent oversight" which still recognises that humanitarian aid is necessary but that in your opinion shenanigans are going on.
>>
No. 18781
>>18770
What genuine proof do you actually had that Russian soldiers were ever in Ukraine? What evidence do you actually have that it wasn't Ukrainian Nazi Azov battalion missiles that shot down the Malaysian airliner? Where is your actual solid evidence that Russia wasn't sending in bars of soap and cans of food to help the poor starving Ukrainians?

> Yes, I think it is given that at some point the international community has a responsibility to step-in or if not that sovereignty is effectively lost beyond a point. What happens next is where things get complicated but even Grotius, who enunciated the very notion of sovereignty, foresaw limits to a tyrants authority. This sort of thing is important because the rules of the game are there to principally preserve the peace to save mankind and secondarily that some kind of human rights norms are to be protected to save man's soul.
Except that has nothing to do with American foreign policy in Latin America since like, ever I don't think. The United States in fact has a lengthy track record of funding, training, and arming death squads particularly in that region, as well as propping up those exact kinds of human rights abusers worldwide. The whole Iranian revolution was largely in response to one such dictator our government installed there. You will never see the US say a word of criticism when certain important allies like say Qatar start mowing down civilians, nor do we hear much about Saudi Arabians routinely exporting the most cancerous form of Islam worldwide and funding terrorists, in fact if anything as Kashoggis murder points out the US elites/government will do absolutely fuck all about human rights abuses and is more likely to defend them.

Furthermore while some of it is just Maduro's mismanagement and other problems are due to the crash in oil prices, another part of the problem is directly due to that intervention and the United States continuing to impose sanctions which is standard operating protocol. Pretty much every country the US doesn't like where the leadership and government are too popular will get sanctioned to hell and back, have their assets frozen, the international community gets pressured to cut off all trade and diplomatic ties with the country, followed by increasingly trying to undermine and destroy the country economically until the US Gov has engineered enough of a crisis to demand their ouster, and if that doesn't work they start funding/training/arming various rebel and terrorist groups.

While this strategy has usually succeeded which is why they keep doing it two notable examples of this failing are Cuba and Iran. In fact the US is being extra pissy right now with EU members for upholding the Iran deal and pretty much telling Washington to piss off, although it is basically just Israel and KSA that wants that war.
>>
No. 18782
>>18773
Except there is no ethnic genocide here. Like, at all. You're just broadly trying to stretch the argument to absurd generalities of complete isolationism versus intervention, as if actual legitimate US (or anyone's for that matter including Russian) imperialism and typical bullshit military adventures and CIA antics are somehow the same thing as the international community failing to prevent a genocide. Like I said, it is usually the US behind those sorts of things anyway in SA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Mozote_massacre
I should also point out that the "School of the Americas" is one of if not the most notorious institutes in the US and is literally a school for training terrorists and death squads. Among the many other notable graduates of that program are Los Zetas (who, the story goes, went rogue, though one wonders if they still have US intelligence contacts).

The reason why Abrams is under scrutiny is because of his involvement in that particular massacre, as well as numerous other human rights abuses throughout south America, as well as being one of the architects for the Iraq war, which ad you might recall resulted in civil war, genocide, continued instability throughout the region, and eventually ISIS.

If this was a genuine humanitarian operation of course we would be for it but I don't know why you expect me to believe you it's raining when my leg is being pissed on any more than all of us knew the Russians were lying through their teeth about Ukraine.
>>
No. 18827
>>18770
>Yes, I think it is given that at some point the international community has a responsibility to step-in or if not that sovereignty is effectively lost beyond a point.
Any "right-to-intervene" is just a shallow excuse to invade for purely selfish purposes. It's a way to justify imperialist adventures in an age where everyone outwardly agrees that imperialism is bad.

Assad is a better choice than the jihadis he fights against, and he's an order of magnitude less evil than our good friends and allies in Saudi Arabia, who are consciously inflicting starvation and cholera on half of a nation of 28 million. Any moral claims from a government which supports the Saudis and goes on a warpath against Iran or Maduro can be dismissed out of hand.

>Well, yes. Acting in complete disregard for international law is more serious offence than exploiting a lacuna.
A rather convenient philosophy for the parties that create the rules.
>>
No. 18863
>>18658
thank you. i can't remember the name, but that first study must be the one, although it is actually from ireland, not from scotland.
the findings from the 2nd study are quite interesting, they assessed a fairly large number of samples, yielding an overview of genetic variety in that region and they also found that the last auerochs who died in poland was basically a mutt of auerochs and regular cattle.
anyway, there's still a loooong way to go, a full auerochs chromosome set is required for cloning, which does not exist, unfortunately. so breeders still must resort to slowly modify the genome of regular cattle.

>revealed a relationship between the European Bison and the Aurochs
afaik the wisent is supposed to be the result of interbreeding between auerochs and (now extinct) european steppe bison.
>>
No. 18949
http://publications.atlanticcouncil.org/putin-exodus/

Very good infographic about Russian brain drain. Brain drain is bad for any country, but in general immigration is good for the world, because people tend to migrate/work in places where their skills are more needed and will be used with greater efficiency. But while immigration doesn't harm the well-being of people in general, there are things that consume resources, don't increase the productivity of people and don't lead to a more successful economy for Russia or the world as a whole, such as military. Every penny spent on army is a wasted penny. Of course defence spending reduces unemployment and funds research of certain technologies, but if people would spend the same resources on education, healtchare, infrastructure or technology grants they would receive greater benefits for the same price.