/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

File (max. 4)
Return to
  • Allowed file extensions (max. size 25 MB or specified)
    Images:  BMP, GIF, JPG, PNG, PSD   Videos:  FLV, MP4, WEBM  
    Archives:  7Z, RAR, ZIP   Audio:  FLAC, MP3, OGG, OPUS  
    Documents:  DJVU (50 MB), EPUB, MOBI, PDF (50 MB)  
  • Please read the Rules before posting.
  • Make sure you are familiar with the Guide to Anonymous Posting.

No. 16419 Systemkontra
66 kB, 550 × 550
Old one is kontra.
What are you reading, Ernst?
No. 16438
What do you mean by "actual fiction novels"? Most novels are fiction, it is kinda implied by the genre itself. As for explicit sexual violence, there is William Burroughs (Naked Lunch and Wild Boys; Nova Trilogy might have some too, but I'm not sure). There are also older ones, like de Sade and The Songs of Maldoror by Lautreamont. All in all, sexual violence descriptions mostly belong to fetish porn (duh); few authors can pull it off in an "artsy" kinda way.
No. 16439
159 kB, 300 × 475
pretty, pretty revealing (psychoanalysis stuff aside)
I'm just about finishing it right now but I'm sure I'm going to re-read it later this year
No. 16447
A bit more than 2/3 through the new Houellebecq novel. There were a few entertaining diversions, and the story shaped up a bit more thematically around the dairy farmers' riot.
No. 16454
I'm just reading MLM lit this month.
No. 16465
I'm actually writing a DeSade tier book but I'm going to have to publish it anonymously because I don't want to be known as "that guy who wrote that book".
No. 16484
48 kB, 185 × 284
Finished Infinite Distractions by Dominic Pettman a few days ago.

The main argument is that we are being hypermodulated by social media in that one can spend his attention on a political issue while another reads celebrity gossip or watches fail videos and a few minutes/hours later it's the reverse. So we never spent our attention on the same issue but are being dispersed tho a terror attack e.g. can generate a certain amount of attention for a certain time span. So were are never really synchronized by social media as other theorists pointed out before.
Yet Pettman says we are being synchronized on another level via algorithms and web page templates that control and force a certain way to approach and handle social media and online communication.
No. 16489
Still reading Kudrun. It's pretty good. Not as touching as the Nibelungenlied, and sure as hell not as bloody. (At least so far. The first two parts were pretty tame.)
No. 16575
293 kB, 1333 × 2000
Finished it yesterday.

An enjoyable read for me but I wouldn't recommend it to someone not acquainted with Houellebecq. It felt somewhat unpolished and like it could've used some more editing at first but as one gets to know the protagonist narrator it starts making sense.
Basically the book is a glorified travelogue (mostly through the Normandy) by a male in his mid-40s who has no family, no friends, no relationships, no hobbies except for eating, drinking and smoking (it's a recurring motif of his misery that most of the hotels don't allow smoking anymore). One day he decides to disappear from his Paris flat and cheating Japanese girlfriend, he's well off so he can stay in hotels, travel around and in theory live a decent life. Except what for? He starts taking a novel promising SSRI called "Captorix" due to which he loses his already limping libido and through that the most important aspect of his life: his sexual relationships. This allows him a detached perspective which leads to brutally honest and often absurdly comical observations about himself, the people around him, the meaning of life and other mundanities.
Most people he meets during his aimless wandering, some former lovers and his only friend, a French nobleman who's never turned a profit trying to build up an ecological farming business, are similarly reduced to alcoholism and bitterness (and the protagonist could well be in their place would he not take the antidepressants). The long-winded sentences, full of mundanities, connected by a multitude of commas, perfectly exemplify the rambling thought processes of a person chemically kept from "dying of grief". Something feels wrong about his life, about the world in general but the vague realization is already too much, too overpowering. None of his ideas to turn his life around are realized in the end.
A lot of the ills of modern life are aptly displayed and thematized: the blight of globalized neoliberalism destroying the livelihood of domestic farmers, the commoditization of love leaving many people alone and unhappy at an age when a new beginning is impossible but life is not yet over, leading meaningless lives drowning themselves in alcohol. A whole lot of the novel is taken up by lengthy ruminations of the protagonist about his past lovers, with some of whom he could certainly have led a happy life had he received some better guidance in life.
Overall it's a rather poignant read though plentily interspersed with some of Houellebecq's dark observational humor.

I started J.G. Ballard's The Atrocity Exhibition today, only read the introduction and first chapter so far. It was vaguely unsettling but I imagine it felt much more relevant and shocking at the time it was released in 1970 as it's full of pop references.
No. 16577
38 kB, 326 × 500
Halfway through this book at the moment. This is probably one of the best history books I've ever read. God, what I would give to live a life as eventful and meaningful as the lives of the men Hopkirk describes.
No. 16585
I will purchase this book.
t. Deeply interested in the Great Game
No. 16695
I also just finished Serotonine.
It was definitely the most intense Houellebecq-read I had so far, felt like it had much more depth than the other two novels by him I read so far, Submission and Platform. Also it had the best ending by far. The pages about Proust, Mann and Jesus were terrific. Also it was interesting compared to the quite hedonistic ending in Submission when the protagonist converted to Islam, only to marry underaged girls. Now the protagonist found himself left alone in the bitterness following his promiscuous sex-life, filled with regret. It felt much more honest and existential than the end of Submission.

My next read is going to be The Birds by Tarjei Vesaas. I already know a bit about the plot but I really have no idea what to expect prose-wise, still unusually enough I was looking forward to read this novel for a while so I'll lose no more words and directly get into it after making myself comfortable with some tea in my bed.
No. 16706
233 kB, 800 × 600
141 kB, 525 × 405
Man, I'd love to get a hard copy of the ORs one day. It's not a cheap thing to get, since you'll not even get a preowned set for less than $1000 but it's such an ebin publication. Added together it's a bargain for the amount of print you get (128 volumes with between 1-2k pages per volume) but it is still a lot of dough to drop at once on something I'm only going to even need to consult 3% of but it'd also kind of bother me to have a patchy set on my shelf. In the short term, I'm probably going to get a hard copy of volume IX because it's the most immediately relevant to me and I like working with physical books since I can have it sitting open next to my computer for reference compared to alt+tabbing all the time.

I found a really great correspondence today in it to use as an anecdote of the complexities of logistics in the New Mexico Campaign. Here you have forces having to plan the movement of an entire column of reinforcements around the yearly rains that will fill their reservoirs enough to keep the men with enough water to keep them from dying of thirst until they can reach the Rio Grande (around a two week crossing according to other documents), and then also having to account for the fact that forage is not really that viable in this part of the country compared to greener areas so you have tables being sent laying out the number of mouths to feed that were coming as reinforcements and not just them being laid out as fighting forces. Shit like this is why I love the Civil War in the West.
No. 16720
30 kB, 456 × 673
libgen doesn't have it

btw try picrelated
it's kind of related
No. 16722
>Tarjei Vesaas
never heard of him, but his oevre looks interesting. i'm a big fan of hesse's, however otherwise i'm not very fond of existentialist literature. vesaas' seems to have a couple good novels without going too deep into that stuff. have you read some of his earlier novels?
No. 16748
Nice. I wasn't really feeling it initially, but I'd agree it might have been his most deep or subtle novel, it felt more conceptual than his other works. Though I'd still claim The Elementary Particles is his overall best as it's the most comprehensive.
I was also primed to expect something less excruciating after reading Submission recently. And then I cozied myself up while reading, indulged with food and alcohol, just like the protagonist, so the ending was rather shocking. I'll have to re-read the last pages another time.
No. 16751
86 kB, 600 × 800
Thanks for the suggestion but I've already read it. The Russian cover is ebin.
No. 16761
That looks pretty fucking rad
No. 16787
40 kB, 314 × 475
33 kB, 313 × 475
btw speaking of
>what I would give to live a life as eventful and meaningful as the lives of the men Hopkirk describes.
these aren't about the Great Game but I'm sure you'll enjoy them (don't let the second one deceive you with its title, it's much more than a mere Lawrence's biography)

both the covers are kind of a miss though: the book is pretty academic and neutral
No. 16790
28 kB, 384 × 499
>both the covers are kind of a miss though: the book is pretty academic and neutral
That happens.
Look at this one for example. It looks like some mediocre Wikipedia-regurgitation crash-grab, but it's actually a damn good book on the history of Japanese animation. (Especially how it talks about the methods and goals of the animation industry pre-war, so it doesn't just start off with Tezuka's works)
No. 16793
Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War and Arms and Armour of the Greeks by Snodgrass. The archaeology breaks up the occasional monotony of Thucydides.
No. 16827
Thanks for the suggestions, I will check those books out
No. 16854
136 kB, 1287 × 852
121 kB, 1306 × 873
27 kB, 559 × 820
Out of recreation, I made a rhyming rendition of Ilosvai Selymes Péter's epic-poem about Toldi Miklós.
It's a really mediocre poem from the 1500s about a folk hero. The only reason anybody remembers it is because it served as a source for the much more famous version written by János Arany in the 1840s. So I'd say it's a perfect fit for my mediocre rhyming abilities.
This is probably a very weak rendition, and an incomplete one at that, but to my knowledge it's the only one.
This is the first arch of the story (Basically up until the point where Nicholas redeems himself), which roughly correspond with the contents of the first part of Arany's Toldi trilogy.

I hope it's readable and somewhat enjoyable. It's certainly asn't as monotone as the original.
No. 16888 Kontra
TIL: The 1847 version I mentioned actually has an English translation.
The rendition itself seems pretty faithful to the original, except for leaving out the rhymes.(Supposed to be an AABBCCDD)
But the story in this version is much more coherent and well laid out.
Probably the most well known and renowned Hungarian epic. It has been taught in schools since 1879.
No. 16895
It turned out pretty good I'd say, especially considering it was a spontaneous effort. One criticism I have is that it might be more important to pay attention to the meter. Even if the verses rhyme, if the meter doesn't match it disrupts the flow of the poetry.
No. 16899
Well, I know I neglected the metre.
Re-reading a few of the verses, it really shows, but it turned out well in most of the cases in my (pointless) defence.
Anyway, thanks for reading it at all and giving me feedback.
Getting feedback is usually my biggest issue.
No. 16915
2,4 MB, 369 pages
Generation kill, however I suggest you watch the mini series first.
No. 16930
3,1 MB, 340 pages
Just finished Blindsight by Peter Watts, a so-called hard sci-fi novel about a small crew of differntially enhanced superhumans travelling far into deep space to investigate a possible alien lifeform. I found it a rather tiring read, for one because of the curt, gritty structure which was overly accommodating, for another because of all the technobabble, even if it is thoroughly in accordance with prevailing scientific theories. There's lots of talk about genetics, game theory, neuroscience etc. but I feel like the author is being too cute about dressing everything up in a scientific manner and making the characters lay it all out in a palatable manner.
Also I just don't like the constrained genre fiction narrative structure. I guess there was nothing really bad about it but it did feel like a waste of time to read it. I'd imagine a movie adaptation could be vastly more enjoyable.

No problem. If you decide to re-work it and need more detailed feedback feel free to post again.
No. 16946
I found the Rifters trilogy much more enjoyable to read. Mostly because I could connect with the characters much better than in Blindsight.
No. 16999
Already up to 4€ in late fees to the library. I'm reading as fast as I can, damnit!
No. 17037
You could scan the book in your library or does it not have scanners?
No. 17051
I could just torrent it too, but I prefer reading paper books, that's why the library.
No. 17099
but the money!

I prefer books as well but I wouldn't want to pay a fine.
No. 17129
It's either the fine or buying the book. Which is btw 12 Rules, I've borrowed it since early December and have not finished yet.
No. 17133
47 kB, 350 × 514
Started it recently, a good biography
No. 17219
198 kB, 650 × 822
I finished The Thousand Sons recently so now I'm reading the other side of the coin.

I fucking love the Space Wolves. They dank.
No. 17230
4,0 MB, 640 × 360, 0:51
No. 17232
I fucking love that show, whoever came up with it is a genius.
No. 17248
Are you retarded? Russ is an asshole.
No. 17252
It kind of funny twist when both Wolfs and Sons was tricked - from what it is (and I generaly dislike HH book series as overall presentation) this two books was fery fun read.
No. 17272
Russ is based and redpilled.

My friend recommended me these two as a start even if it's not in chronological order. After these I decided to read the Ahriman novels because I got way to interested in him. After that I'm going to stuck myself in the chronological HH order, starting from the top.

Are you saying the HH books are not all that great?
No. 17273
They have their moments but the majority of the series is meh, made all the worse because it damages the mystery and legend that defined the period for so long. The series is basically things that were for a long time intended to be shrouded in mystery and hearsay of 10,000 years of lost and falsified information. I don't think that all the detail has done the universe as a whole any great service, it just pushed back the boundaries of the unknown in a universe built on legends and things long-forgotten.
No. 17275
Idk the reason why I love the WH40k universe is the knee-deep lore.
No. 17276
There's plenty enough non-heresy lore, and in many cases, the existing lore is improved by the implications of what is not said more than it is by having it all laid out for the reader.
No. 17281
I really just want to stick myself into the HH. The thing is my lore knowledge is rather ass.

Other than that I plan on reading the Gaunt's Ghosts books. Any other recommendations?
No. 17283
I liked the Last Chancers trilogy. Gaunt's Ghosts is probably the better story, but the Dirty Dozen turned all the way past 11 is more entertaining tbh.
No. 17305
745 kB, 3120 × 4160
1,7 MB, 176 pages
Got these bad boys for a ridiculous bargain.
Glossy paper and lots of illustrations, looks and feels very impressive.
I've barely read anything Chinese so far, so I'm looking forward to delving into this classic novel. Have to admit it looks a bit intimidating in terms of length, but I'll presumably have lots of free time soon.

Also I started reading Otaku: Japan's Database Animals by Hiroki Azuma, it's an analysis of otaku culture as a symptom of postmodernity. Highly readable and enlightening so far, and it's short as well, so I'd recommend it to anyone interested in the topic.
No. 17310
>Dream of the Red Chamber at a bargain price
I'm so jealous, man. I really wanted to get a copy of it but I don't have any money for it. A digital one will have to suffice.
And my Hungarian edition is just a translation of the abridged German translation from the 40s.
Also, which translation did you cop? The Yang one or the Hawkes one?

Chinese novels are really something, especially the four great classics (Three Kingdoms, Water Margin, Dream of the Red Chamber, Journey to the West). They are a bit picaresque in a sense, but they are still great.
Though I've only read parts of the Great Four.
I want to read Three Kingdoms this year.
No. 17317
39 kB, 354 × 499
527 kB, 1747 × 2510
Admittedly I spent quite a bit of time researching all the possible translations and editions in German and English and was already about to give up since nothing suitable was turning up, but then I got lucky and found these 3 Yang translation volumes listed separately by the same German online seller which allowed this bargain(~17€ incl. shipping).

I considered just going for a digital version as well, but my limited research only turned up a bad scan of the Yang translation (which from what I gathered is the better one). The next affordable(~30€) would be the 4 volume softback edition which also looks really nice. The recently released non-abridged German edition really cracked me up though. I'd be ashamed of owning it, I don't know what they were thinking when designing it. Then again it seems to be an academic translation so maybe that explains it.

>I want to read Three Kingdoms this year.
Nice, it's even longer from what I've gathered so good luck with that effort.
I'm not much of a sinophile so the Dream of the Red Chamber should probably suffice for now to get a taste of Chinese lit.
No. 17318
1,1 MB
2,3 MB
772 kB
2,1 MB
I have a good epub version of the Hawkes translation if you want it for comparison.
If you don't find Dream of the Red Chamber enjoyable, don't write off all of Chinese literature as bad.
There is a lot of it, both classical and modern that's worthwhile.
Or at least as an amateur sinophile I found it worthwhile.
No. 17319
2,1 MB
5th volume couldn't fit in the last post. This is the last one.

I have a similar edition of Three Kingdoms from the Foreign Language Press. The box is really flimsy, but the quality of the books seems to be okay.

Also, could you elaborate on what arguments you found on why the Yang translation is better? (Is it more literal or has better annotation?)
No. 17320
Thanks for the epubs! I've heard so much praise about it that I'd be very surprised if I end up not liking it.

Truthfully, I haven't researched too deeply into it
Here's what I've gathered from some forum though:

>I think the Yang translation is a solid and workmanslike piece of translation that is a bit laboured in parts because of the difficulty of the material whereas the Hawkes translation has more flair and is much more readable but it feels a bit less reliable.
>Hawkes has done a remarkably good job with translating the poetry however (a nearly impossible job).

And some people on goodreads were also praising the Hawkes translation, so alas I might have been wrong about it.
No. 17325
"Permutation city".
No. 17351
>Thanks for the epubs!
No problem. If you need any of the other big four Chinese novels, just ask. I have all of them in ebook format.
No. 17354
gibsmedats please
No. 17357
21,6 MB, 8 files
21,9 MB, 11 files
851 kB, 2 files
4,8 MB, 2 files
Journey to the West
Three Kingdoms
Water Margin
Plum in the Golden Vase (Jin ping mei)(Though this one isn't part of the Great Four)

I also have Strange Stories From a Chinese Studio and The Complete Fiction of Lu Xun if you want those too.
No. 17394
Do you use an e-book reader? I was thinking about getting one for a long time. Can you just read any kind of PDF on it you find on the internet?
Also I've read that there are e-book readers that have a dictionary function, which I imagine would be great for reading in foreign languages.
No. 17401
Yes, I own an ebook reader. Though it's a really old, no-name model. (I got it when I was 13 or so because I wanted to read Dracula, but nobody sold the book, I originally wanted a Kindle but my father did his usual cheapskate antics and I was left with this one, only for him to ask if my E-reader is kindle or not last year, and when I said no, he asked, "Why?", but that's just me being a needy little bitch.)
I only read short books on it that would be too expensive to get. (Or whatever I can't seem to get my dirty little hands on)
No. 17415
Finally finished reading Kudrun.
The first two parts were fun, the third which had the actual story of Kudrun was overly complicated for an epic like this. It could have easily been partitioned into another 2-3 parts if not for it having the same characters. (Each part tells a story of a generation, descended from Hagen, who isn't the same Hagen as the one in the Nibelungenlied as far as I can gather)

It's heroic and all, but has an overly large cast of characters much to its detriment, none of them are too deep, even for an epic like this, except for maybe "alte Wate" who is like a magician and a warrior who's basically mightier than anyone.

The Hungarian translation gets a bit laboured at times, but is fine otherwise, especially how all the versions I saw in Neuhochdeutsch are non-rhyming. (I only encountered two prose translations, and it's just not fun to read without the verse and the meter)

It's a bit like an antithesis to the Nibelungenlied, because here instead of murdering the fuck out of everyone, they all hold hands and sing cumbaya before going home with their new wives
I'll see how it compares to other medieval epics, but so far this isn't really outstanding.
My current order would be something like:
Nibelungenlied>Song of Roland>Powegap>Kudrun>Powergap>Beowulf

I'm going to read Shostakovich's Testimony next. Already read like 30-40 pages out of it just randomly flipping it open, and it's really fucking good. It's like listening to the stories of a grandpa I never had.
No. 17417
134 kB
Yesterday I read Faserland by Christian Kracht, it was really enjoyable. It's a rather short novel about an affluent young man without any discernible interests, except for maybe fashionable clothes, constantly drinking and smoking while traveling from the north of Germany to Zurich. On his way he meets other high society people, some of whom he considers friends, but all the relationships are somehow vapid, and beyond the joviality of the various descriptions a profound sadness and emptiness shines through, particularly towards the end. The writing style is very colloquial and authentic, providing lots of hilarious descriptions of the different cities and their somewhat stereotypical inhabitants. It's somewhat reminiscent of Bret Easton Ellis, but thoroughly well adapted to German idiosyncrasies.

Get one. I just got myself a Kindle recently and it's great. I don't know why I held out so long without getting one.
You can just pick it up and read a bit without having the struggle of opening the book, setting the bookmark etc. And the dictionary/wiki and highlighting functions are also extremely useful. Battery holds for an eternity and the display doesn't strain the eyes at all.
With the Kindle you can read either PDFs or MOBI, but in any case you should just get calibre to manage and convert your ebooks.
No. 17428

A few days ago I opened the book here and there and read a few paragraphs.Hanuta and Nazi Germany
I'm not an expert but this stuff goes under Popliteratur and has been written a lot from the 1960s-early 2000s. It's still written ofc, a mix between journalistic style and fiction, often witty and amusing. A lot of the authors are also journalists or write/wrote for newspapers. The magazine Tempo from the mid 1980s-1990s is known for this style and many of their writers also write such books and later went to the big newspapers like ZEIT, taz, FAZ and Süddeutsche. In a retrospection after the magazine died, it was called a Talentschmiede.

I just read the first chapter of Gerade Eben Jetzt by T. Schumacher which is a scholarly book about that genre, dealing with the category of the contemporary these books unfold.
No. 17534
653 kB, 3022 × 1105
I don’t remember when, if, ever I laughed out loud reading a book.
Even if Testimony is a forgery, it’s a damn good read.
No. 17602
No, The Birds was my first novel ever by Vesaas. Generally his books aren't easy to come across, I payed 24EUR for this one but it was quite worth it. It was a really fascinating read, very unusual stuff. The main protagonist Mattis is what one would call an autist and a metaphora for the artist. He has an almost biblical speech, to him word and meaning is the same and his only way to describe or make sense out of the world around him is throughout poetry, which he does more or less unconsciously. He finds beauty where the "intelligent and strong" people from his village (he calls them like that because they're able to think faster and in pragmatic ways, also have real jobs) don't see anything, for example the mating flight of a woodcock (and its later dead, sort of induced by himself) has a great meaning to him. Whenever he tries to do any work, his mind doesn't want to and let him fuck things up so he's used that his sister earns the money. The novel's language is really wild, associative and formalistic, sort of representing Mattis worldview. It is a really melancholic and dramatic piece of work but there's also a lot of humour on it. Also there is tripping on amanita muscaria in it.
There'd be much more to tell about this novel but I'm missing the time right now. Would definitely recommend it, you won't regret for sure.
No. 17753
8,0 MB, 349 pages
Finally finished reading Testimony.
It's a fantastic book.
It has a fair few funny passages, rich anecdotes and tragic tales.
Well, most people don't consider it an accurate source of information, and it had tons of debates and books written on it, but I'd say even if it's not "valuable" as a source, it's still worth it for the entertainment value you get out of reading small Russian anecdotes, jokes and stories.
It has some pretty good banter. The scene story in which Shostakovich and Khachaturian embark upon writing a Soviet anthem together is both chilling and laughter inducing at the same time.

I'm going to read Mo Yan's Red Sorghum now.
No. 17755
Most professionals don't consider the ancient sources to be an accurate source of information but you can bet your butthole that they're still considered extremely valuable and in some cases, an identified inaccuracy can turn out to be a source in itself. Don't fall into the accuracy=value trap.
No. 17766
37 kB, 600 × 800
Yesterday I finished Heeresbericht by Edlef Köppen. It's one of the many WW1 novels from Germany.

It's the best I've read, better than Ernst Jünger and Erich Maria Remarque. Honestly, it blows All Quiet on the Western Front out of the water, no doubts. It works with expressionist aesthetics. Really the most versatile novel without a drift into kitsch like Jünger or Remarques the protagonists reflection on the Lost Generation are not really deep
No. 17770
I wouldn't consider Remarque's book to be exceptionally good, even compared to Jünger's work.
It's not bad, but besides shocking the reader, it's pretty average. (At least, it shocked me quite a bit when I read it.)
No. 17778
Yeah, it is shocking indeed. The rest is really not good. But Jünger is just boring besides some nice vitalistic moments and aestheticizations of war phenomenon like the sky over the front lines etc.

Köppen is a Montageroman, that has cites newspapers, chancelors, Kaiser Wilhlem, adverts and so on, but also has a plot. The protagonist is not infantry but artillery which was a refreshing perspective after 4 novels with infantry. An as mentioned it is the most versatile when it comes to aesthetics and also narration techniques.
No. 17785
>The protagonist is not infantry but artillery which was a refreshing perspective after 4 novels with infantry
That's good to hear. Even after two books like this, I've felt like I was reading a different adaptation of the same story. (Not to say this isn't to be expected when both are supposed to be diaries/writings about one's experiences.)
I remember I even made a list of what topics Jünger and Remarque share in their books.
No. 17792
War novels from WW1 will share a lot of motives. So does Heeresbericht, but it also does it different in many ways, motives are not depicted alike and that is just one thing.
No. 17817
So I started reading Red Sorghum.
Someone who writes
>the little pink asshole of my grandmother
in the first 10 pages of his book can't be a good man.

I'm going to read it, but I'm a lot less enthusiastic now.
No. 17819
7,2 MB, 392 pages
7 kB, 529 × 180
Now that I have more time, I'm going to finish reading Computation and Human Experience by Philip Agre after I put it on hiatus for a while. It's basically a text book that tries to bridge the gap between philosophical and technical approaches in AI. Seems quite interesting from a theoretical perspective despite being a bit older.

Also read another chapter of the Iliad, and shit is really starting to go down, gory details galore.


Reminds me of the first sentence from Ryu Murakami's Coin Locker Babies
No. 17821
Ryu Murakami is the other edgy Asian writer.
His In the miso soup almost had me vomit at one point.
No. 17826
>His In the miso soup almost had me vomit at one point.
Really, at what point (if it doesn't trigger you too much to remember)?
It's actually one of my favorite books of his (next to Almost Transparent Blue), one of the few books I ever read twice. In my memory it's rather tame, at least in comparison with Coin Locker Babies or Audition.
No. 17827
I remember exactly where. That utterly disgusting and revolting part was when Frank commits a murder on screen in front of Kenji. The vivid descriptions of the blood and the broken and torn necks made me dizzy a bit. Especially how it transforms into this violent madness from a deplorable club scene where the only motivating force is money and nothing is genuine.
I think I had Murakami's intended reaction. I was shocked.
No. 17828
Read Iliad not so long ago. It was unexpectedly good. Sure, those duel episodes can be kinda boring sometimes, but the poem as a whole left a very nice impression, especially the ending. And I giggled a little when warriors try to take the armor off the enemies they defeated right in the middle of a fight, because it reminded me how in hack 'n' slash games I often ignore monsters around me and start collecting the loot.
No. 17829
Ah yes, totally forgot this scene but now I remember it vividly. IIRC it also happens very suddenly which adds to the shock value. Almost want to reread it now, but sadly I gave away my paperback to someone who probably didn't even open it.

Nice. It's definitely somewhat long-winded and takes some getting into the language but I agree it's surprisingly fun as well.
No. 17831
>takes some getting into the language
It depends on the translator, I guess. For example, there are two most known translations of the Iliad into Russian: Gnedich's and Veresayev's. The former is older and uses a lot of archaic words (archaic even for the period when the translation was done, that is, early XIX century), the latter is more "modernized" and doesn't shies away from crude and swearing words (Gnedich used much tamer expressions than original, possibly because the audience back then wouldn't take kindly to swearing). I've read Veresayev's translation, because I had checked some passages from Gnedich's and had decided that the prospect of constantly looking up unfamiliar words despite reading the poem in Russian wasn't very attractive to me.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that you could check out if there are different versions and pick the one that is more accessible. Unless, of course, you are being a total badass and reading the original.
No. 17837
229 kB
I read it in ebook format.
I have no intention of re-reading it, or reading anything by Murakami again.
No. 17857
If anyone is interested in the Iliad but not a fan of poetry, I highly recommend John Dolan's The War Nerd Iliad. It's an adaptation of the story into modern colloquial English, executed very well. It conveys the emotion of the story superbly, and also acts as a window into preclassical Greek thought and culture (I suppose the poem would as well, but this is the version for people who don't like poetry).

The tone gets didactic in a few brief places, which I wasn't fond of, but other than that it's perfect for what it is. The description of Achilles' shield especially stands out - though entirely in prose, it felt more poetic to me than any actual poem I've read in the English language. For that part alone, I think its worth reading if only to see what can be done with prose in the English language.
No. 17859
>It depends on the translator, I guess.
For sure. Maybe I'll go for some more contemporary translation another time, but right now I'm reading the classic German translation by Johann Heinrich Voß from the 18th century, as I've got a nice print edition I got for cheap. I think it's still intelligible enough, and actually I don't mind picking up some archaic vocabulary.

>Unless, of course, you are being a total badass and reading the original.
Unfortunately this is a level of badassery beyond my reach.

Thanks, but I really want to reread the German translation as it's what I've read before. I actually met the friend whom I gave it to yesterday and he told me out of the blue that he still has a paperback from me called "In the Miso Something" and he's planning to return it to me. Rather strange coincidence, but no point mulling over it I guess.
No. 17943
264 kB, 350 × 408
43 kB, 600 × 380
So I sat down and read Pushkin's poem Ruslan and Ludmila.
It's great.
Nothing overly serious, just a nice little fairy tale with dragons, wizards and a talking head, set in the steppe. It's really relaxing and magical. It's a worthy compensation after the disappointment that the Song of Igor's Campaign was, to which it alludes to on multiple occasions.

I remember liking Yevgeniy Onegin more (It's called Eugene Onegin in English which I find disgusting for some reason.), though that's ought to be re-read again.

Pushkin is a great author, even in translation. I like his works.
No. 17944
352 kB, 1024 × 1267
No. 17946
>Such a letter
This why I think
Romanticism > Alle
No. 17956
10 kB, 480 × 360
Can someone post the pdfs of the books being discussed here? Please?
No. 17963
1,3 MB
347 kB
You can find two translations of Ruslan and Ludmila into English at the bottom of its wiki page.
Eugene Onegin is a whole other ordeal. I haven't the slightest idea which translation to use.
But here, have two versions. The latter one even keeps the stanza of the original.
If you need books, just use b-ok.org or library genesis ( )
No. 17972
279 kB
>Modern editions have prose translations
>There is a perfectly fine rhyming verse translation out there
Why do the English do this?
No. 17973
have read it in japanese translation years ago. was really informative.
now its second-hands sold on amazon ridiculously high price.
No. 18064
Finished Christiane F. – We Children from Bahnhof Zoo

It's written by two men and based on interviews with Christiane F. a teen heroin junky from the 1970s in West Berlin.
I read it because I wanted to get a feel for a 1970s mentality, the bad sides of the BRD federal republic Germany, but there is not so much to find more ORDNUNG than today, that's for sure. Otherwise it's quite surreal when you think about all the young teenagers from 12-18 who did heroin and died. Teen prostitution and all that is featured in the story. I often was bugged by the wordy paragraphs, not sure it is because it's a teenagers mindset conveyed as well or because it translates the annoying drug scene habits even better.
No. 18087
Does anyone know of good memoirs of WW2 written by generals or other high-ranking officers not from the USA or Britain, but available in English? I'm especially interested in ones by German officers.
No. 18094
Anglophones are not a poetic people. We love our verse in song but scorn it unadorned (considering the title of the Nibelungenlied, I imagine the original audience of the poem was similar). It doesn't help that most poetry in English is garbage*, especially the well-lauded stuff, or that the language is awkward and ugly. I can listen to a poem in Russian and, without understanding it, appreciate its aesthetic qualities. Except for a very few rare accents, English either sounds gay or like Dutch, so we need music to make our verse sound good. However, I think the sound and cadence of English lends itself especially well to musical accompaniment, so I don't see why we'd want to waste our time with unadorned verse anyway. The speakers of a language should play to their strengths.

*In the second stanza already, the translator tries to rhyme "fair" with "were", and tacks an extra syllable onto "doomed". Even if you tolerate the second kind of poetic license (I don't; if you need to butcher the language by tacking on non-existent syllables, you need to become a better poet), you just can't rhyme words that don't rhyme.
No. 18096
Come to think of it, it's better to say that modern Anglophone culture has simply reverted to a more primitive attitude towards poetry. The Iliad and the original Nibelungenlied (which would lead to the MHG and Old Norse poems) come out of cultures where poetry was popular entertainment, performed to live audiences and accompanied by music. Add sound recording into the mix, and that describes modern America as well as Iron Age Greece or Migration Period northern Europe. Homer would have been baffled by people reading his poems, in silence, alone in their room.
No. 18098
>*In the second stanza already, the translator tries to rhyme "fair" with "were"
Well, that wholly depends on dialect/accent if fair and were rhyme or not. In my opinion that rhymes.

Of course English doesn't always lend itself to poetry well, I don't want to dispute that, but even this kind of poetry is miles better than the travesty that is a prose translation.
No. 18109
Not him but I think that most poetry is ultimately untranslateable. I mean forgetting all modern lack of understanding of contemporary themes and such, it just simply doesn't work that way and you ulstimately have to completely torture the language to make it similar, and a direct translation simply isn't poetry. This is also one of those things that's a damned shame about the Quran, because no non-Arabic speaker is ever going to fully get it.

It strongly depends on the poet. Algernon Swinburne was an amazing poet. The problem is whatever horrible thing happened in the 50s where our poetry truly became fucking garbage. Allen Ginsburg is absolute trash for example, and even modern slam poetry in the 00s for example is basically complete shit like 99% of the time. People are under the impression you don't have to rhyme or even have any sense of cadence or rhythm anymore and these fuckers call it "poetry" which is just an example of the complete degradation of high culture along with say visual art. All our art is in different mediums mainly controlled by the recording and publishing industries and Hollywood and the people that control those industries, as well as vidya.
No. 18140
>Well, that wholly depends on dialect/accent if fair and were rhyme or not.
No it doesn't. I don't know of any dialect or accent where those two words rhyme. My own dialect actually has the most pre-rhotic vowel mergers of any major dialect of English, and those are still distinct sounds for me.
If your line only rhymes in some obscure paleo-Northumbrian dialect that was already moribund in the early 20th century, it doesn't count.

>but even this kind of poetry is miles better than the travesty that is a prose translation.
I've enjoyed several prose adaptations of foreign epics. There's a passable version of the Shahnameh that I'm working through, and the aforementioned War Nerd Iliad which is absolutely excellent.

Adapting a foreign work of art sometimes requires a shift of medium if the original medium doesn't have any valency in the target culture. In a sense, this can make the adaptation more faithful than one which strictly adheres to the form of the original, because the work can be digested by the target audience as easily and enjoyably as the original work of art was digested by its original audience.

For example, the Iliad. Raw poetry is not a current medium in the English language - it lives on today only among a small incestual clique of poetry nerds. Raw poetry just doesn't click with the average American, and I believe this extends to most other Anglophone cultures too. I've tried several times to get into long epic poems, and it just doesn't do it for me - this despite having a great deal of interest in the cultures that produced these poems. I've never met another American who just reads long poems for fun, and I'm not talking about 89iq bydlo. We like narrative prose, and we like musical poetry, but raw narrative poetry is alien to us (I'm sure you have media formats that you just can't get into).

It wasn't until I read the War Nerd Iliad that I was able to properly appreciate Homer. You should really check out the free sample of the book that you can find on Amazon. The author is a poet himself, and an academic expert on English poetry, but chose to do the adaptation in prose because of the issue that I'm talking about. All of the emotion and drama and comedy of the original is preserved, and in fact for me it's enhanced - I've looked at the best parts of the Iliad in poetic translation, and it just doesn't convey the feelings that it's supposed to. Poetry just doesn't do it for me as well as artful prose.
No. 18325
Read some "award-winning stories" by Harlan Ellison. Now I kinda get why the dude himself hated being called a "science fiction writer". His stories are all over the place: there is some urban fantasy, surreal, allegorical and symbolic stuff, noir-ish and mystery-ish pieces. My impressions of them were all over the place as well.

There are some stories that I have no idea why got their awards. Like "The Human Operators", which is basically his earlier "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream", but not nearly as nerve-racking (or should I say, "wracking"?) and with a crappy Adam-and-Eve happy ending to boot. Or "'Repent, Harlequin!' Said the Ticktockman", which I guess is supposed to be about the possibility of turning the law, which is created in order to provide security for society, into an instrument of oppression, but I can't help but think that Ellison simply was late all the time, was reprimanded for it often, got butthurt about it and wrote a "scathing satire" short story because of that. Not to mention that the nature of oppression was explored much more thoroughly by other authors, like Orwell (who, ironically, was mentioned in "Repent, Harlequin..."), so Ellison's contribution to the topic's discussion is insignificant.

There are some stories that are simply not relatable to me, like "Djinn, No Chaser", which is about overcoming the obstacles of married life, or "Croatoan", which is about taking responsibility in the form of fatherhood. I wouldn't call them bad per se, it's just that they are about the things that don't interest me, so they don't resonate with me at all.

And finally, there are stories that I simply didn't get. I have no idea what did he mean by "Eidolons" and "The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore", and I'm not even sure if he did mean anything, because they sure look like products of purposeless literary experimentation. "Adrift Just Off the Islets of Langerhans..." is a mish-mash of cultural references (lots of them just flew over my head: I'm embarassed to say that I haven't seen the classic Wolf Man movies with Lon Chaney Jr.; and the name "Victor" is way too common to associate it with doctor Frankenstein specifically) which probably convey some message, but I am not able do decipher it.

Not to finish on a negative note, there are stories that I definitely liked. "With Virgil Oddum at the East Pole" was very inspirational and uplifting. I liked the adaptation of "A Boy and His Dog", and the original story didn't disappoint me either. But my favorite was "Jeffty is Five". Despite (or maybe because?) of being a cynical bastard, I value works that are capable of moving me to tears very highly. Usually my only reaction to authors' attempts to evoke sympathy is an indifferent smirk, but sometimes I stumble upon such great stories as Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men" or Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon" that manage to press just the right buttons inside me. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that "Jeffty is Five" is one of these stories.

Overall, it was a fairly enjoyable read, and I wouldn't feel bad about recommending it to fellow Ernsts, if they haven't got to Ellison already.
No. 18328
He did the screenwriting for the I have no mouth and I must scream videogame too. The short story itself is pretty meh, but if you can, watch a longplay of the game, because it's pretty damn good as a "movie".
Otherwise I only know him from talking mean shit on TV. What a lad.
No. 18330
I am thinking of playing that game myself for a long time already, because watching other people play it breaks the immersion, but I'm just not very big on point 'n' click adventures. Maybe someday I will overcome my aversion and actually do it.
No. 18332
That's why I said watch it. It's like a movie, only a bit longer.
No. 18334
btw if you really want to play it, I have a GOG exe of it.
No. 18336
Thanks, but I already have it installed. Someday, when I'll have one of my gaming impotence fits, I'll be sure to give it a try.
No. 18372
I read books and stuff
No. 18387
I'm reading through the memoirs of Albert Kesselring. Of course there's lots of ass-covering and curious omissions in a post-WW2 memoir by a major German commander, but reading between the lines is half the fun. The level of frustration that he had with the Italians, and the utter shamelessness of the Italians as they repeatedly fail and then betray their allies, is quite amusing.

I'm going to make a point of reading more war memoirs after this. One from the Japanese perspective would be very interesting.

>But my favorite was "Jeffty is Five". Despite (or maybe because?) of being a cynical bastard, I value works that are capable of moving me to tears very highly.
I suggest "Foster, You're Dead" by Philip K Dick. It's a quick short story, but very poignant. It's one of my favorites for that reason.
No. 18396
Thing you need to understand about the Italians is that Italy was Fascist but the majority of Italians were not. Most of the soldiers were Royalists and/or Catholics and answered either to the King or the Pope. Mussolini never managed to indocrinate the entire country like Hitler did. Germans thus had the fanaticism to put up with a lot of shit while the Italian army didn't really give a shit about Mussolini's grand experiment.

In spite of that, the Italians did have their moments (CSIR in summer of '41, Ariete Division, Enfidaville) but often suffered from both Mussolini's megalomania overruling his capable but non-sycophantic generals like Messe, and the fact that the Germans expected the world of an underdeveloped secondary power who both mentally and in materiel was not ready for war when it came. The army had potential though. They had a different way of operating on a section level to many contemporary forces and it enabled high mobility and tactical flexibility by keeping support weapons as a second fireteam that could be directed in support of mobile infantry from its own base of fire position that was independent of the rifle teams. This was limited by the fact that their support weapons were garbage and they never achieved mass production of the newest version of their service rifle which was very forward thinking in terms of what the role of an infantryman was (it forwent features meant for extreme range combat which were common on other rifles in order to make it more potent at medium/short ranges where fighting was really taking place).

Their air force was well-equipped though and their navy was one of the most modern in Europe (albeit relegated to fleet-in-being). The Macchi C.205 was just plain one of the best fighters of the war, with its predecessor, the C.202 being also pretty good. Other late-war models like the G.55 and Re.2005 were also brilliant but were Italian and thus couldn't be produced in any great number.
t. appreciator of the Italian military
No. 18430
I started reading The Golden Ass by Apuleius. So far it's really wild and crazy fun, even though the translator August Rode, who lived in the late 18th and early 19th century, seems to have tried way to hard to intellectualize the dialogue (sometimes that makes it even more fun to read). In this book two witches turn the protagonist into a turtle and take a piss on him after beating him up and the passages where he gets transformed into an actual ass is hilarious as well but still very captivating. Are there more works about people turning into animals besides the obvious work by Kafka?

Also as I did get high yesterday and today but still wanted to do some light reading I also started Diesseits des Van-Allen-Gürtels by Wolfgang Herrndorf. Really weird and disturbing, much different from the two novels I read by him. Maybe I'll write a bit more about this author after sobering out and reading more of the book's stories. What I can already say though is that once again I feel like Herrndorf's Prose is reaching out into really dark corners of our lifes which I find to be quite scary sometimes. Even more so as most critics described it as pure pop-literature without anything beneath it, but I didn't get this impression at all. Also he captures the pure fear you feel having the realization that you're probably mentally ill.
No. 18433
Well both sound so good I want to read them now. I'm telling me everyday I will work on my papers a few hours a day, everyday. So far I read stuff that is interesting to me. Wanted to check out the antiquarian for a Ballard novel, probably now Herrndorf and Apelius, since I never read such old books.

I shouldn't spent any money right because of reasons. I just found out a used Herrndorf novel is 5€ on the internet, but even that is a nono now, will probably go the the antiquarian tho. And I've seen a Tschick book by Herrndorf at my parents home I think.

Where did you get the Apelius, I only find expensive and more or less shit expensive ones.
No. 18439 Kontra
930 kB, 800 × 799
It is good, it’s just that the British Film Institute decided to give it a “shit” cover. It’s really factual and unweebly in its approach.
But oh well, if you must shitpost.
No. 18440
A lot better than your sole 4kreb contribution tbh

This is the literature thread, not shitpostong thread
No. 18442 Kontra
I still don't understand if it's a language error in my brain or something else but the word "weeb" disgusts me so much. I think it's derogatory, humiliating and as obnoxious as 90% of modern anime "fans" who say they like anime after watching a couple of "weeb" youtube videos and reading ddlc.
Am I taking it too seriously? Sorry for the offtopic.
No. 18444
Meh, it's not a big deal. It's as if someone called me a nerd or a geek with the intention to offend: I cannot come up with any other reaction than "well, duh".

t. 350+ animu titles weeb
No. 18450
My first Herrndorf novel was Tschick which is a good one but it feels lighter than what he usually wrote. I'd still recommend it as it's a good intro into his work I guess. It's also a very fast and quick read. Right afterwards I've read Bilder deiner großen Liebe which is a fragmentaric novel focussing on one of the side-characters in Tschick, the mentally ill teenage girl Isa. It's already much darker and more disturbing than Tschick (which is a fun Roadmovie-Bildungsroman), you feel while reading that Herrndorf was getting close to the end. I can't say a lot about the other big novels yet, Sand and In Plüschgewittern but I definitely want to read them at some point.

I own Apuleius, Der Goldene Esel from Goldmann Verlag published in 1961. You can find lots of cheap and nice copies on zvab.

No. 18454
Started reading some of Robert W. Chambers' other short story collections. They're fine. They don't capture me like The King in Yellow though. The peaks of cryptic and mildly unsettling weirdness in that book just creates a far more interesting read than what amounts to symbolist/art nouveau short stories. The titular story of the one I'm currently reading 'The Maker of Moons' is interesting but it's just not as impactful as The Repairer of Reputations. The rest is as I said, fine but also not really my thing.
No. 18457
Alright. I will look out for these books at the antiquarian before I order something online. Will keep me from buying to much books that collide with my limited time at the moment.
No. 18470
Haven't heard of this Herrndorf before, besides being vaguely aware of the Tschick movie. So I ended up reading about him a bit (there's some German in memoriam website about him*), and damn he had a quite tragic life story. Will definitely put some of his books on my reading list, I'm always glad to stumble upon some interesting contemporary German author.

No. 18471 Kontra
Btw, especially for the German Ernsts who want to buy used books online I recommend trying https://www.eurobuch.com/
It's a metasearch engine which crawls through amazon, booklooker, abebooks etc. and it works surprisingly well
If you scroll down on the page there are some off-shoots for other countries as well but I can't vouch how well they work.

Medimops can also be pretty good, as they have a decent selection & prices, though often not the cheapest. But they also offer free shipping over 10€ which can lead to some good deals if you're looking for multiple books.
No. 18744
So, after seeing Ernst rave about Houellebecq, I decided to read one of his novels.
My choice landed on Whatever (Or, The Extension of the Domain of Struggle if we want the translation to be literal.)

It's a great book. A great novel. It manages to grasp the zeitgeist really well. Or, at least the zeitgeist for a particular strata of people that now exist, and the eyes of the mainstream has recently landed on. (Of course, I'm talking about the incels.)
Very interesting to see how Houellebecq noticed the issue 30 or so years ahead, and wrote about it. It's a pioneering work in a sense.

The story itself isn't really all that important, it serves as an anecdotal supporting structure to the inserted essays and ideas. The book itself hinges on two particular sentences, which define the plot itself
>Economical liberalism means extending the domain of struggle to all ages and genders.
>Similarly: Sexual liberalism means extending the domain of struggle to all ages and genders.
It's especially interesting how at the end he sketches up this duality between these two systems (Economic life, dubbed "the Mars-system", and sexual life, dubbed "the Venus-system") and how success in one won't necessarily mean success in the other. (As in, you can make good money, but that won't necessarily lead to an interesting sex-life, and vice versa.)

Sometimes it felt like reading an elaborate imageboard post from 4-5 years ago. (Especially how the Hungarian version in some cases accidentally coincides with Hungarian chanspeak.)
I don't know what my verdict would be if I were to read it as someone unfamiliar with chans.

It's less than 200 pages, has some relatively well written prose that manages to be elegant despite the subject matter being masturbation and fucking (though sexual intercourse in itself isn't always necessarily the topic, same goes for self-pleasuring.) and most importantly it's relevant to our times.
I'd recommend it. It's really good. I had fun with it.

I also read Crime and Punishment the day beforeI'm going to give my thoughts on that one in a separate post.If ever.
No. 18790
546 kB, 620 × 846

Thank you!
No. 18801
Thanks, your descripted has me intrigued, will give it a shot.
No. 18805 Kontra
No. 18845
So I returned the book finally and paid 6€ of late fees. Didn't finish it either. The library sent a threatening letter saying the will forward the case to a collection agency if I don't return the book ASAP. Now number 230 on the waiting list, might as well buy the book...
No. 18852
Jordan Memerson is overrated, anyways.
No. 18853
Glad you liked it, I remember I didn't like it at all at the time I read it. Though it's been a few years ago that I read Die Ausweitung der Kampfzone. Just before that I had read Faldbakken's Scandinavian Misanthropy Trilogy so I was kind of sick of all the sex and violence stuff and lumped it in with that without thinking more about it.
I'd have to reread it sometime, but I'd still say The Elementary Particles is Houellebecq's chef d'oeuvre, it's roughly the same theme of the ruinous effects of liberalized sexuality, but developed further through multiple characters' perspectives towards a more epic ending.

Every time someone doesn't finish 12 Rules Jordan Peterson strangles a baby kitten. Please clean your room at least, so the kitty soul can go to meowy heaven!
No. 18856
I don't plan on reading more Houellebecq for now. It was interesting, but if he just keeps elaborating on this theme, then I'm not going to delve too deep into his oeuvre.

>Every time someone doesn't finish 12 Rules Jordan Peterson strangles a baby kitten.
The thing is, I think what Jordan Peterson and Marie Kondo preaches (Order, discipline, cleanliness, responsibility) should be self evident by the time you reach adulthood.
We live in a society :^) and this tells a lot about the society we live in, in my humble opinion.
No. 18878
37 kB, 317 × 406
No. 18880 Kontra
No. 18894
145 kB, 556 × 660
The Autobiography of Yukichi Fukuzawa

Its fascinating, especially if you're interested in modern Japanese history. He visited Europe and the United States several times in his life and its interesting to see how it altered his views on Japan. He was also one of the first Japanese who wasn't a castaway to learn the English language.

also a cool little fact it that he is on the most valuable Japanese banknote and Benjamin Franklin who is on the most valuable American banknote also wrote an extremely famous autobiography
No. 18923
Read The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket by Edgar Allan Poe. Well, it's definitely not one of his finest works. It is either a tribute to or a parody of tales about seafaring, so it includes several elements associated with it, like mutiny on a ship, surviving a shipwreck by means of cannibalism and confrontations with savages. While I don't think that these elements had already become clichés back when the book was written, their usage in the text still leaves a lot to be desired. The narration is ragged, the characters recover from their ordeals way too fast, and said ordeals come in so rapid of a succession, that they would more easily befit some Kafka's story rather than a more or less serious adventure (or at least serious about being an adventure) tale.

The lengthy digressions containing the explanations of science, technology and history do not contribute to the smoothness of the narration's flow either. Poe engaged in this often in some of his short stories, but it felt more appropriate there, because these stories were pretty much dedicated to these explanations. In this book, however, the nascent interest in the plot simply gets killed by boring passages recollecting the history of antarctic explorations, describing ship's interior structure, or talking about sea cucumbers.

I gotta say that the ending (or, rather, the absence of one) mitigated my negative opinion a little, simply due to how weird it was, but not to the point of redeeming the book as a whole in my eyes. To be fair, it's pretty evident that long prose isn't exactly Poe's specialty and he feels much more comfortable with his short stories, which are undeniably great.
No. 18926
23 kB, 312 × 499
So I'm roughly halfway through Shestov's The Philosophy of Tragedy - Dostoevsky and Nietzsche, and I think it's a really good book.
What struck me as strange that it's really down to earth and understandable, while not lacking in content.
Though an actual knowledge on Dostoevsky's, Tolstoy's and Nietzsche's works is somewhat necessary if you want to enjoy the work to its fullest. That is, it's necessary for you to have read a few of their books. (Notes from the Underground, Notes from the House of the Dead, Crime and Punishment, War and Peace, The Karamazov Brothers, Thus Spake Zarathustra and so on. Though if Shestov states something, he backs it up with a quote from the given work, and then a commentary on the context of the given quote.

It's a fine work so far. I'd definitely recommend it, though in the first half he talks more about Tolstoy than Nietzsche, but I guess he leaves that for the second half of the book.
Thanks to it, I could finally see the reason behind Svidrigailov's character. It's insightful, short, and cuts straight to the point.
No. 18929
It's breddy gud. Lots of well designed figures and diagrams as well as lucid explanations of modern and historical molecular biology techniques.
No. 18940
172 kB, 1067 × 600
I'm pretty much depressed and tired in the evening. No motivation to read difficult texts then. But I don't have enough money to order a copy of Tausend Deutsche Diskotheken, 10€ for a book will be too much until I get my paycheck in mid march.
So, does any German Ernst know if there do exist places that could provide me with a copy?
It's funny, BRD Noir came out in 2016 as a dialog about the BRD as literary genre and now this book might be inspired by it, just like this Fritz Honka movie. They both cover topics that are mentioned in the BRD Noir book. I like the idea of the BRD being a complete different country to what is now, that's why my bachelor thesis will deal with it.
No. 18944
Can't you just borrow it from a library?
No. 18945
Uni library does not have it, I could suggest it, but would take a few weeks before I can read it, by then it's probably mid march.

Don't have a card for the public one, need to check if they have it anyway
No. 18947
218 kB, 411 × 500, 0:01
Have you tried going to old pawnbroker lady for money?
No. 18956
I could sell something on ebay.kleinanzeigen, but nothing that is sought-after besides music electronic I don't want to sell.

An introduction to film theory is still lying around here, borrowed from the uni library. I will just read that without trying to understand what I don't understand.
No. 19176
1,4 MB, 2560 × 1920
>Every time someone doesn't finish 12 Rules Jordan Peterson strangles a baby kitten. Please clean your room at least, so the kitty soul can go to meowy heaven!
Ha :D My room is clean no worries. I got to rule 8 and will continue once there's a free copy at the library. Also took the rule of not lying to heart, now I try to speak the truth and not resort to white lies like usual.

Today my book order from Amazon arrived: A gift edition of Watership Down and Tales From WD, both in English. Does Ernst read their books in original language?
No. 19288
Motel Architecture a short story by Ballard which was quite good, reading him in English is better. Have Runnung Wild and Concrete Island borrowed and waiting to be opened in the near future.

During this morning I had an encounter with the short <15 pages but famous essay Against Interpretation by Susan Sontag.

From Wikipedia
>she claims that interpretation can be “stifling”, making art comfortable and “manageable” and thus degrading the artist’s original intention, Sontag equally presents a solution to the dilemma she sees as an abundance of interpretation on content. That is, to approach art works with a strong emphasis on form, to “reveal the sensuous surface of art without mucking about in it.”

Indeed the intellects mode of interpretation is based on the metaphysical assumption that there is more, a beyond the artwork, a secret meaning or secret meanings that need to be unveiled by the intellectual mode of interpretation, a production of meaning even.

It's from the 1960s I think and kinda groundbreaking for these days because these days form is very important, the content is nothing special and I tend to value form as better attribute to answer why something is art.
So if you are interested in arts and especially literature it's an important read that should not be dismissed if it was unknown to you up until now, given that it's short, it's a no brainer. I would especially advice it to the young Hungarian, since I think it's not taught in school and yet an important position to consider or know about when you deal with literature + it's not difficult to read.

So instead of quoting the last sentence of her essay it will be the one before that:
>The function of criticism should be to show how it is what it is* , even that it is what it is , rather than to show what it means .

the last sentence would be: In place of hermeneutics we need an erotics of art
No. 19389
191 kB, 627 × 698
>Against Interpretation by Susan Sontag
Sontag's insistance that art requires no defense, ironically reminded me of Percy Shelley's A Defense of Poetry. Shelley, like Sontag, understood that there was value in the experience of art. In its explicit form art serves its purpose and it doesn't have to be picked apart to justify our appreciation of it. A great essay, thanks for posting about it.
No. 19482
Read Running Wild by J.G. Ballard. A short novella about a massacre in a gated community. Since I have seen some Youtube Interviews with him, the statements and topos was too obvious and perhaps good back then but a bit flat for todays standard even tho the topic is not a cold one tbh but one might pack it differently today I could imagine. Well, it's a novella and therefore not overly complex. Kinda neat how the last pages resemble a typical flashy TV documentary narration about murder/killings, while it's indirectly critiqued in the beginning.
No. 19553
Got my hands on a Wolfgang Herrndorf novel In Plüschgewittern as I had some time in between eating and an appointment in uni today. Finished it already. Easy to read and it reminded me of the weirdness and absurdity of peoples life. Or wanting something but never know what and so life passes by on its way.
No. 19554
Is that supposed to be a reference to Jünger's In Stahlgewittern?
No. 19556
Now that you say it, it could really be. It's a different war then, an inner one, a daily struggle.
No. 19635
110 kB, 675 × 953
66 kB, 676 × 954
I translated some Hungarian literature again this afternoon. It's really therapeutic.
This time it's a Humoreske, or Humoreszk from the early 20th century. (Considerably more modern than that one poem I did last time, I'd say.)

It's supposed to be funny. I laughed at the English version too when I re-read it (What a Pushkin... and so on.). Maybe my humour is just weird, but please tell me if you've found it good or not.

I want to translate another short piece by this author, that might be a better choice than this one (I'd say the subject matter is just simply funnier in that one), but this volume was the first one I grabbed, and I marked this story in it. Mea culpa
No. 19674
>Against Interpretation by Susan Sontag.
So I read it but I rather disliked it, the title turns out to be pretty much clickbait. Of course I'd agree on the points that one-bit interpretation through e.g. a Freudo-Marxist framework can be stifling or that sometimes people tend to overinterpret art, and this is bad. But interpretation can also be absolutely necessary and good in other contexts, which she also sheepishly admits. Further she builds on some dubious claims such as her view that the value of art was somehow undisputed before the Greeks started theorizing about it and her positive vision of an "erotics of art", it doesn't really appeal to me.
And as you say, nowadays the problem is rather inverted that people pay too much attention to form, leading to absurd pedantry such as bickering about e.g. the encoding of a movie file rather than engaging with the content.

I think I'm going to read Walter Benjamin's The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction now, as it seems relevant. Somehow I've came upon a few texts recently that dealt with the topic of art theory and actually I haven't made up my mind yet what to think about it.

I like it, it was quite funny and legible.
Here is some nitpicking with a few words, though these are just some suggestions to consider, I'm not sure myself but I felt like these might sound better. Maybe a native speaker could rather help out:
Especially the one who was called

harddifficult Latin words

enough fromfor a young


beyondbelow the horizon
No. 19677
>S. Sontag

Well, it's from 1964 and back then form wasn't really at the center as it is now. But it sums up this position quite well and easy to understand, ofc one can ask what does a piece of art mean, but what it is is even more interesting to me, also what it does. I wouldn't dismiss interpretation but leaving out the form is a big miss she tried to highlight. The erotics of art is kinda vague but quotable, maybe because it's so vague.

> leading to absurd pedantry such as bickering about e.g. the encoding of a movie file

that is not meant by form. perhaps in a very broad sense with the focus on digitality of a piece of art. Form in the classic and art related sense would be about the films aesthetics, the camera work, cut and many more that does not meddle with the plot in a direct way.
No. 19679
Thanks. I'll look into it now.
Those are the type of errors I was worried about, so it's good that you posted them.

Though my main concern was if people would find it humorous at all. I'm glad that I didn't kill the jokes. That's a big victory for me.
No. 19696
>interpretation can also be absolutely necessary and good in other contexts
I think to counter the contemporary (1960's) overapplication of metaphor, she argued for an overapplication of literalism. While neither approach is perfect for all situations, I appreciate her emphasis on the artist as the conveyer of meaning(through form), rather than the critic.

>Maybe a native speaker could rather help out
Your suggestions are all excellent imo. I would only add one more:
-Undoubtable-proclaimed the judgement Steve the peach-, it's undoubtable that our...
In this sentence either judged Steve the peach or proclaimed Steve the peach would be better.

>I'm glad that I didn't kill the jokes
You didn't. The humor relies on absurd statements. To survive translation they need to be coveyed clearly, but without unnecessary elaboration. You certainly did that-I was impressed. As the expression goes:Dying is easy, comedy is hard.
No. 19701
Thanks a lot.
I implemented most of the changes you recommended.
>As the expression goes:Dying is easy, comedy is hard.
That's nice.

Karinthy's "motto" was: In humour I know no joke
He is one of my favourite Hungarian authors and I was glad that I could share this piece of writing with you.
No. 19739
The Wake by Paul Kingsnorth

Holy shit, this is the most EC-tier thing I've ever seen. I've never read an author who gets it like this guy.

>our fathers was freer than us our fathers fathers stalcced the wilde fenns now the fenns is bean tamed efry thing gets smaller. for efry cilde born there is sum new law a man sceolde be free and alone on his land the world sceolde not cum in until he ascs it. freodom sceolde there be in angland again lic there was in the eald daegs in the first daegs of the anglisc
No. 19740
>it is lic my grandfather saed to me lic what i saed to ecceard to these wapentac men this hwit crist he lies. it is hard to sae these things they moste be saed in thy hus only if thu is hierde the preost and the thegn and the gerefa and the wapentac they will tac thu down. but it is lic my grandfather saed before the crist cum our folcs gods was of anglisc wind and water now this ingenga god from ofer the sea this god he tacs from us what we is. there is sum of us saes my grandfather still cepan alyf the eald gods of angland efen in these times and he wolde spec to me of these things when my father was not lystnan a thrall was he to those who wolde tac from him what macd him man
this is not of what i was specan not of my father of him i does not spec but it seems to me thu moste cnaw it was the crist and the bastard what toc from me what i was what i is for men of all places was afeart of both. all is afeart in this world is not fear what cepes the gebur from cwellan the thegn who cepes him down is not fear what cepes us from slittan the throtas of the preosts when they tells us we is born to die that we synns by fuccan or drincan is not fear what macs us hyd lic hunds liccan our beallucs when we is telt
No. 19754
259 kB, 400 × 400
> I appreciate her emphasis on the artist as the conveyer of meaning(through form), rather than the critic.

I think it's not even the artist but the artwork itself that takes you. erotics of art is a seduction, an experience (of presence of something?). That would go well with what you said before concerning the metaphor. She dismisses the representationality, the symbolism that these critics attribute to a work of art. Rather the artwork in itself is present in a way. And that is why you have to think about what it is and not what it means.
Tho there exist art that is explicitly symbolic, art historians would say, especially the older on from the middle ages and later on.. still lives come to my mind. Dunno about ancient greek art. For Hegel it was not symbolic art but the convergence of form and content (idea) afaik.
No. 19765
106 kB, 800 × 620
>I think it's not even the artist but the artwork itself that takes you
Yes, I think this is an even better understanding of Against Interpretation. The artist-if I may, ironically, use a metaphor-births a work before setting it loose on the world. The artist is free to shape his art but, once he removes his hand, it is the art itself which we encounter and not the artist. Critics valuing content over form are searching for the distant creator instead of appreciating the moment when they are present with the creation. Or worse, they're discarding what that creation is, and replacing it with their own ideas of what it should be.
>Tho there exist art that is explicitly symbolic
This picture, Oath of the Horatii, is a good example. Its form is layered with symbolism, and exposes the limitations of Sontag's philosophy. Maybe limitation is the wrong word. She would simply value the sensual experience of the paintings form, over its underlying allegory. In the same way she would value the immediacy of a scene playing out on a movie screen without stopping to think about the director. It's kind of a radical point of view, maybe that's why it struck a chord with me.
No. 19768
>Critics valuing content over form are searching for the distant creator instead of appreciating the moment when they are present with the creation.

I don't know if Wilhelm Dilthey is known in the anglosphere but he is a key figure for hermeneutics in the germanosphere and what you just said is pretty much his position, to interpret is to feel or comprehend the genius of the artist who is above the average man.

I'm not sure right now but did Sontag said something about modern art and the difference to allegoric art of earlier centuries? Without being an expert, not even an amateur on this field, but I think conceptual art a strand of so called modern art is more or less symbolic art. Maybe the difference is that it does not rely on a certain canon as art did back then(?).
No. 19770
>did Sontag said something about modern art and the difference to allegoric art of earlier centuries?
Sontag did single out modern Abstract painting as a way for an artist to use form while denying the viewer any identifiable content. This was mentioned as a way to avoid interpretaion, since the interpreters would have nothing to decipher. It was also seen to be in stark contrast to prior art movements which utilized recognizable objects or, as you said, a visual canon.
No. 19772
Here's a thought experiment that I invented while trying to understand my role as an artist, sometime in second year of art school.

There is a computer with a display that generates random images and I mean completely random, 99.9999% of it is pure noise. There is a person sitting in front of it. Whenever the person deems whatever appears on the screen to have artistic merit, he presses "Print screen". And although the quality of the produced "art" depends on the observer's ability to distinguish art from noise, he himself has no input in creating it: merely observing it.

And now, the question: who is the artist in this scenario? The unthinking machine that generates imagery (allegory for nature), or the observer, who simply recognizes beauty, but has no hand in actually creating it (the artist)?

My answer is neither. "Art" is simply the divine Truth, the ideal platonic forms, the axiomatic conceptual "particles" of reality. They manifest in physical figures in the phenomenal world, through objects and shapes, and represent their conceptual ideas with varying degrees of accuracy. The artist doesn't create anything, he merely Discovers the truth. The only IMPORTANT skill an artist should have is "taste", or "gnosis": the ability to recognize beauty and truth. The mechanical skill required to shape physical objects into smybols of truth can be reduced to a press of a button: as it has with photography.
No. 19773
When you have set the boundaries of a certain art medium, such as "colors in the human visible spectrum in the 2D plane", "a series of pitches in a length of time", "a lump of physical mass", you have defined a set of all artistic works possible within those boundaries.
Your job as an artist is simply to explore that infinite possibility space and bring something back from it.
No. 19774
I took a long time to read Hamlet.
Fuck my the olde English, I didn't get the whole mad thing, and just think is a terrible play.
I read Othello before this and it is much better.

Onward to Winson's War, while I doubt this will change my mind regarding Churchill, I have a stack of fiction books brought over from England and plan on reading them next.
No. 19785
907 kB, 3990 × 2660
838 kB, 3990 × 2660
982 kB, 3990 × 2660
Its a russian ortodox church guide for chrism making.
A manuscript was written in 1683 year.
What is chrism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrism
How it feels? 15 ml equals 3-4 month of meditation
No. 19793
Shakespeare's work is meant to be viewed in theatre, NOT read as a book
No. 19864
366 kB, 532 × 800
1,3 MB
Finished this the other day, it's an apparently quite popular sci-fi novel by Chinese author Liu Cixin.
I'm not going to spoil the plot, but as an appetizer there's a chapter in which a computer is emulated through the usage of 30 million soldiers using black and white flags (instead of 0s and 1s). The effort is coordinated by the avatars of Newton, Von Neumann and the first Chinese emperor Qin Shi Huang inside a VR game.
It was quite an enjoyable read, particularly the first half because of the historical episodes related to the Chinese Communist Revolution and civil war which I was only vaguely aware of. Though towards the end the plot became a bit conventional, there were still some really interesting concepts. Also I really liked the style of the language for the most part, it seems like a great translation.
No. 19865
Even if they are meant to be viewed, it doesn't mean that your experience will necessarily be worse if you read it, because you can imagine all the dramatis personae yourself. I often go further and pick the one character I would have liked to play and read some (or all) of his lines aloud (I hope nobody overheard me when I was being Gloucester; people at my workplace would be thoroughly weirded out by that XD), it makes it even more fun. In fact, if you watch the play at the theater, you enjoy the work of the director and the performances of the actors first and foremost rather than playwright's talent. I think, even if you are going to watch a play, it's better to read it beforehand and then compare your own vision of it with director's vision. If you do otherwise, you'll just fail to form your personal impressions and will be stuck with someone else's.
No. 19869
>there's a chapter in which a computer is emulated through the usage of 30 million soldiers using black and white flags (instead of 0s and 1s). The effort is coordinated by the avatars of Newton, Von Neumann and the first Chinese emperor Qin Shi Huang inside a VR game.
Sounds like you 12 years old shiteater.
No. 19870 Kontra
Even so, that'd be by a large margin less pathetic than accusing people of such.
No. 19873
Regarding the circumstances it took me quite a time to get back into regular reading after those nervous breakdowns in february but I finally finished the Golden Ass and quickly afterwards I read through Melück Maria Blainville by Achim von Arnim, which is a fun and even a bit moving romanticist novella. It's set during times of the french revolution and tells the story of an arabic woman who finds her way to france over a ship and starts a career as an actress in theatre. She is depicted as being extremely beautiful, of great wisdom and nearly unapproachable to men. One day she falls in love with a beautiful young prince who waits to finally be allowed to marry his to-be wife. They have am affair and he wants to leave her, this is when the story takes a dramatic turn and the arabic woman Melück turns out to have magic powers with whose help she takes capture the young prince's heart as revenge for him leaving her for his wife. Even though his wife forgave him his treasure, he slowly loses all of his life and will power and becomes terribly sick. By the help of a friend who is a doctor and studied the magic arts in Arabia the prince regains his health in favor of letting Melück stay at the married couples home as a part of the family. They have a good time together until the french revolution begins. While the prince, his wife and the doctor cheer about the people striving for freedom and reason, Melück Maria Blainville makes a prophecy that she and the prince will die by the force of the revolutionaries and the doctor will help doing it. They ignore her prophecy but everything happens exactly that way. When Melück is killed by a former lover she denied (who became a revolutionary leader out of frustration), she still owns the prince's heart so he dies as well. Before she dies she tells the doctor to save the princess and the children and bring them to switzerland, which he does before killing himself. Also there was a moving puppet playing a role in the novella but I found it to be a rather weird and forced Dingsymbol. Guess I'll read Isabella von Ägypten this year but now I'll finally get to read Knut Hamsun's Hunger first.
No. 19875
>Well, it's from 1964 and back then form wasn't really at the center as it is now.
I have a bit of a hard time understanding the reasons for that. I think I have at least some rudimentary grasp on the art movements of that time and it doesn't really make sense to me. Am I missing something?
Maybe this whole dichotomy of form/content is actually not that useful.

>that is not meant by form.
Fair enough. Actually why I went back to respond right now is that I had a talk with my younger brother who watches anime and he straight up told that graphics is the most important criteria for him and he won't watch anything that's below 720p. I'm not even sure what to make of it but it makes me low-key horrified.

>I think it's not even the artist but the artwork itself that takes you. erotics of art is a seduction, an experience
Now this actually reminds me of the Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy, with Sontag leaning more towards the Dionysian. I'm not sure if this way of thinking about it helps others but this way it makes more sense to me.

>Melück Maria Blainville by Achim von Arnim
This guy's name cracks me up already, but then the plot summary sounds even more wild

>I'll finally get to read Knut Hamsun's Hunger first.
You'll probably enjoy it, especially considering what your mental state seems to be right now.
Consider fasting while reading it as well for the authentic Hunger experience.
No. 19876
>This guy's name cracks me up already, but then the plot summary sounds even more wild
I often feel like not only Brentano and von Arnim but also german romanticism in general is pretty underrated. Both wrote really great novellas and Melück Maria Blainville isn't even peak wildness yet. You've got to read "Die mehreren Wehmüller und ungarischen Nationalgesichter" or at least read the summary on wikipedia, it's a hell of a ride. Let's not even talk about the sheer madness in the work of Jean Paul (even I haven't dared to read more then one short novella from him yet, not only because his language and prose hard to understand for someone living in 21st century germany), who pretty much anticipated elements of metafiction and post-modernism.
No. 19878
>I often feel like not only Brentano and von Arnim but also german romanticism in general is pretty underrated.
Incidentally I've also read a blogpost about (more or less) this time period in literature (https://autisticmercury.com/2017/02/25/novelmindset/) today and I've realized how little I know about it and how influential it was. I think I'll start with getting more into Goethe as I've been meaning to for a while, but I'll definitely mark the books you recommended for future reading.
I haven't felt that way in a while, but recently again it seems so daunting how much literature is out there and how much I'm able to read.
No. 19892
> I think I have at least some rudimentary grasp on the art movements of that time and it doesn't really make sense to me. Am I missing something?

The arts are alright for Sontag, she has a problem with the critics and how they approach art, also I imagine in 1964 the arts business was quite stuck up in a bourgeois way

>Maybe this whole dichotomy of form/content is actually not that useful.

It's confusing since these seem connected but also separated.

>reminds me of the Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy

I don't know Nietzsche well enough but there seem to be at least similarities, yes.

>straight up told that graphics is the most important criteria for him and he won't watch anything that's below 720p

An attitude that is not new, just like with graphics in computer games. Not sure if this is form or resolution, but then again resolution could be a part of form but what extent does it take in comparison to other things that are considered form?
No. 19895
No wonder, Romanticism is considered a blue print for (post)modern aesthetics.
No. 20142
This year I've read three books so far:
Bone Clocks by David Mitchell,
Wilde Reise Durch die Nacht by Walter Moers and
Der Schrecksenmeister by Walter Moers.

I like Moers (all of it from the very vulgar to the child-like) but it's really not an author that I can read two books of back to back. Had to force myself to continue with Der Schrecksenmeister, even though it was really good. It might be my second favourite after Rumo.

The highlight was definitely Bone Clocks, though. Somehow I read the best books at the beginning of the year. Last year it was Umberto Ecos The Name of the Rose, which left me exhausted and fulfilled and has enriched my perspective on life until now. This year it was Bone Clocks and I doubt I'll read something better this year. I've read other books from Mitchell and all were great (Ghostwritten, Cloud Atlas, 1000 Autums of Jacob de Zoet). Good thing I didn't start with Bone Clocks as it really works best if you've read some of his other works. Not only because of the references but because of what you learn to expect from him and how that opens you up for being played. I thin I'd recommend Jacob de Zoet as first thing to read from Mitchell because it is very different, much easier for people not used to his style and gives you confidence in his ability. All the other books require some confidence to push through parts you might not like that much - at least that was the case for me - but it's usually important that you don't like those parts too much (with one exception in Ghostwritten, which still seems pointless to me).

Gosh, I've glanced at this thread for half a year and never posted because I don't want to talk about a book until after I've read it and the timing just wasn't right.
No. 20149
I'm halfway done with Mishima's The sailor who fell from grace with the sea, and I don't see why this is the best Japanese literature has to offer.
At least so far.
It's good, really good, but I don't see him dethroning Kawabata's writing for me.
No. 20249
This man, in my country, he is nothing.
No. 20256
That’s Murakami Haruki and he is indeed a hack.
No. 20366
Was at the antique book store recently and got myself a copy of Aeschlys' tragedies and the collected works of Andreas Gryphius, a 17th century German poet that I incidentally only recently stumbled upon about somewhere online. I've only skimmed it but it seems quite interesting, unlike anything I've read so far.

But I'm actually just posting to share this literary anecdote that cracked me up:
>The person from Porlock was an unwelcome visitor to Samuel Taylor Coleridge during his composition of the poem Kubla Khan in 1797. Coleridge claimed to have perceived the entire course of the poem in a dream (possibly an opium-induced haze), but was interrupted by this visitor from Porlock while in the process of writing it. Kubla Khan, only 54 lines long, was never completed. Thus "person from Porlock", "man from Porlock", or just "Porlock" are literary allusions to unwanted intruders who disrupt inspired creativity.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_from_Porlock
Because it's just too good to not have it's own Wiki page.
No. 20398
Restoring thread order 4
No. 20535
34 kB, 318 × 499
No. 20620
28 kB, 256 × 390
I'm about 100 pages into this bad boy, it's enjoyable so far and it really seems like Solzhenitsyn is building things up for a huge disaster. I enjoy the depictions of life for the land-owning class in pre revolution Russia. basically it hasn't really got into the military tragedy (I can only assume based on the subject matter) yet.
No. 20621
I can recommend Denikin's Очерки Русской Смуты which I currently reading for actual side or army.
No. 20661
Woo lad, it took me almost three months but I just finished the Iliad. Frankly, I was a bit disappointed as it ended somewhat abruptly. Now I'm feeling rather silly as I expected that it would contain the story of the Trojan Horse and Achilles' death. Well, reading something without doing prior research has it's pros and cons.
There's a lot to say about the work itself but it's already been scrutinized to no end so I don't have much to add. I just find it incredibly impressive that it's been composed so long ago and it's still so relatable while also giving a glimpse into the past.

On to something completely different, I've been reluctantly reading Homesick for Another World by Ottessa Moshfegh(yes, it's a Jewish woman, no, I didn't pick it up myself). It's a collection of grotesque short stories about various odd characters set in modern American Society, mostly the lower strata. So it's full of the usual degenaracy: drugs, sex, violence, and lots of dark humor, almost too dark for my taste. At least I feel kind of uneasy that it goes down so easily and I find it funny. There's definitely a crass contrast between the pathetic, depraved characters from these stories and the noble and powerful heroes of the Iliad.
No. 20663
Well, the thing is, the Iliad and the Odyssey are both supposedly part of an 8 (I think it was eight.) part cycle of epics, 6 of which were lost to time.
Same goes for the Thebes cycle, which was also a sprawling collection of works, only a fraction survive in dramatised form.
So of course they are "unfinished". We have essentially been using a Trial Version of Homer for more than a thousand years. The full version is unavailable because the publisher went bankrupt.
No. 20664
Don't forget that most probably there was no actual "homer" and this books are actually collection of spoken stories that once was written centuaries after described events.
No. 20678
546 kB, 663 × 852
>6 of which were lost to time.
Damn! That sucks! The world needs another Schliemann to dig them up somewhere!
I guess the Aeneid will have to make do for now.

Ah yes, the good old Homeric Question
No. 20736
Of course. That's sort of a given if we want to be modern and scientific.

And I guess I was right that it was originally an eight part work.
Though we supposedly do know the contents through them being referenced by later authors (which is the case for a lot of works.)
It's just that they didn't survive as pretty poems.
No. 20738
9,4 MB, 2526 pages
Saw this thing on 4kanker /lit/
Had a terrific fit of laughter.
No. 20801
225 kB, 1013 × 800
I have no idea what the last book I read was. I mean, I know that in Hungarian it's called Csung Kuj, az ördögűző, but I have no idea what it's properly called in Chinese or English. Plainly because pinyin is too mainstream for these people, so I'm stuck with guessing and reconverting the name to pinyin, which is hopeless. So in my post I'll just randomly try to turnit back into something pinyin-ish.

So, it's Chung Gui, the exorcist, a short Qing era novel about an ugly man who was denied first place on his civil service examination purely based on his looks. So hi kills himself on the spot. The emperor then says that he is no a great spirit tasked with killing demons.
So he sets out on his quests to kill demons who embody different vices like gambling, dishonesty, laziness, drinking and so on. He has two other spirits helping him on his way.
>MC dies in chapter one
>Hey, gill dis demon ging for rewardses :DDDDDDD
>og. t. Chung Gui
>"O fug it's an isekai novel before isekai was even a thing"
I realised this maybe 50 pages in.

It's essentially one big Confucianist oration against vices and the corruption of the civil service examination system.
While it's entertaining, it's no wonder that most scholars considered it "mediocre" at best after its initial success.
I had fun with it, but it wasn't a transformative experience. Just like every piece of chinese literature, it's chock full of references to poets and people who lived in past eras. It felt good that I didn't need the footnotes for a lot of things.
>Oh, I know the three legendary emperors
>I know who Cao Cao is
>Ah, yes Xuande, the court name of Liu Bei
>Master Meng and Master Gong? Easy as pie!

Apparently it has a Russian and a French translation too. But I have no idea what are those called. The afterword just mentioned that "Hey, these exist too".

7/10, it was okay.
No. 20996
I really enjoyed the Illiad. Achilles is such a little bitch and then he just goes OP superhero mode against the Trojans after they kill his boyfriend. It’s really so different from what I was expecting
No. 21013
43 kB, 640 × 390
Yesterday evening I read Die Ästhetik des Staates a polemic by Karl-Heinz Bohrer from 1984 in the Merkur magazine. A foreigner comes to an abandoned Germany and reads the traces left of this country. He comes to the conclusion that it was an ugly country without any sense for aesthetics, the absence of aesthetics is provincialism.
Now one could argue that this arrogance is itself provincial but nonetheless I had many laughs while reading it. Fett- und Wurstästhetik one could call it. The 70s and 80s were indeed still very provincial in many cases I think. Think of cosmopolitism, individualism and style. All that is absent in the old BRD according to this small texta 30min read. And it never went away. Every country has it, but perhaps Germany is a different cases. WW2 caused a yearning for the harmonious dumpy idyll.
No. 21025
>the absence of aesthetics is provincialism
Then why is Berlin so ugly compared to.. uh, I don't know, maybe Coburg or Pinneberg isn't?
No. 21026
I found it.
It's a novel about this guy.
No. 21028
I only know Zhong Hui, because he was in Dynasty Warriors and because his name is friggin' hilarious.
No. 21030
Hahaha benis :DDD
No. 21031
You know it. He also looks super gay in DW, but dem levitating swords, mang, dem levitating swords...
No. 21036
You should read the essay, since the question does not deal with the content of the essay or my post really. Provincialism is more than just some rural landscape, it's a mentality and an aesthetic that is more than some Fachwerk or middle ages leftovers and more green than tarmac.
No. 21044
1,0 MB, 778 × 1188
>When the Bolsheviks took control of the Winter Palace, they discovered one of the largest wine cellars ever known. During the following days tens of thousands of antique bottles disappeared from the vaults. The Bolshevik workers and soldiers were helping themselves to the Chateau d'Yquem 1847, the last Tsar's favourite vintage, and selling off the vodka to the crowds outside. The drunken mobs went on the rampage. The Winter Palace was badly vandalized. Shops and liquor stores were looted. Sailors and
soldiers went around the well-to-do districts robbing apartments and killing people for sport. Anyone well dressed was an obvious target. Even Uritsky, the Bolshevik leader, narrowly escaped with his life, if not his clothes, when his sleigh was stopped one freezing night on his way home from the Smolny. With his warm overcoat, pince-nez and Jewish-intellectual looks, he had been mistaken for a burzhooi.

>The Bolsheviks tried in vain to stem the anarchy by sealing off the liquor supply. They appointed a Commissar of the Winter Palace — who was constantly drunk on the job. They posted guards around the cellar — who licensed themselves to sell off the bottles of liquor. They pumped the wine out on to the street — but crowds gathered to drink it from the gutter. They tried to destroy the offending treasure, to transfer it to the Smolny, and even to ship it to Sweden — but all their efforts came to nothing. Hundreds of drunkards were thrown into jail — in one police precinct alone 182 people were arrested on the night of 4 November for drunkenness and looting — until there was no more room in the cells. Machine-guns were set up to deter the looters by firing over their heads — and sometimes at them — but still the looters came. For several weeks the anarchy continued — martial law was even imposed — until, at last, the alcohol ran out with the old year, and the capital woke up with the biggest hangover in history.

>The Bolsheviks blamed the 'provocations of the bourgeoisie' for this.

Nationalize liquor supplies when?
No. 21490
932 kB, 8 pages
364 kB
596 kB
After being inspired by this article called "Borges and His Precursors", I've read Nabokov's Lolita and Borges' Labyrinths collection during the last two weeks. Truly seminal works, and I feel like I only understood some aspects of Lolita when I was halfway through the Borges stories, since some of those stories really force you to think about the role of authorship/creation and the relationship of fiction and reality.

Now I started the Aeneid, it's good so far but doesn't quite match up with the intensity of Homer's works so far. Maybe it's also the translation, but I'll stick with it for now.
No. 21524
10 kB, 300 × 300
33 kB, 444 × 690
23 kB, 336 × 499
Reading a lot Sartre again, it fits my overall current mood.
Before that, I was reading
>Robert Schneider - Brother of Sleep
>Valentin Rasputin - Live and Remember

I can highly recommend both.
No. 21527
207 kB, 620 × 387
Hello Ernst, thanks for being my home while KC gets renovated.
No. 21533
16 kB, 301 × 499
I bought Klassenliebe (social) class love by Karin Struck a while ago, after reading about fear and anxiety in postwar Germany. One chapter was about the new therapeutic left. There exist a term for this new literature approach in 1970s Germany: Neue Subjektivität
Feels and emotions and their expression are at the center of it. The book is more or less a dairy over the course of a year or so in which the narrator reflects about relationships, love, sex, class and society, children and ofc her own self. I was interested in it because it speaks of the turn away from Ableitungsmarxismus , collectivist thoughts in the students left, and a theoretic surplus that dominated these circles. So it was read by me with a historic perspective tho the reflections are interesting in itself at times. But I skipped the last 80 pages because I had enough of it at some point.

It was quite a successful book, originally published in 1973, my edition from 1980 was from the 81k-90k copies.
No. 21534
1,0 MB, 730 × 486
you're welcome, henk
No. 21563
21 kB, 305 × 500
I'm surprised I've never heard of this guy. If not for my teacher giving me Kalkwerk as an example of Now this is some depressing shit, I don't think I would have ever known it existed.
Judging by the few little interviews I've read, this book, and his wikipedia article, Bernhard was a first class contrarian. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
A guy who shittalks all of his contemporaries and everyone around him, yet he's a celebrated writer. And of course before dying, as a last middle finger, he forbade the publishing of his works in his homeland, Austria.
I love it.

Kalkwerk is an absurdly written an confusing novel with tons of repetition and long sentences. The story of Konrad, a "scholar" who intends to write a study about hearing is told to us through a life insurance agent who hears it from two of Kondrad's acquaintances, Fro and Wieser.
Konrad lives with his crippled wife in the local abandoned Lime Works.
The story basically tells us about Kondrad's failure to produce his study, despite maniacal efforts, as he and her wife waltz towards destruction, mental and financial ruin, all thanks to Konrad's monomania of producing a study about hearing.
It's really fucking good. Not as depressing as I expected it to be, but still, really fucking good, and I wholeheartedly recommend it.
The way it's written is fun. It's sort of like a Krasznahorkai novel at times with its long sentences, but without any "standard" dialogue or story.
A great showing of force, a giant literary bravado!
I love it!
No. 21582
12 kB, 300 × 250
What's a good, fictional book where the protagonist is a serial killer who shoots people and loots their bodies for a living?
No. 21585 Kontra
Pretty much the storyline of Dexter Darkly Dreaming, minus the looting. Polite sage for frogposting.
No. 21600
42 kB, 246 × 407
So after seeing that video about reviving animals, I decided to read Lovecraft's short story, Herbert West - Reanimator
It's roughly 30 pages long, and it's okay I guess. Not necessarily Lovecraft's worst, but it shows that it was made to be published in instalments, with how he re-caps the whole story at the start of each short chapter.
The story is imaginative at least, but the structure and the delivery is fucked because of the magazine medium.
No. 21615
Watch the movie with Jeffrey Combs, it's pretty ebin.
No. 21618
Thanks, but I don’t watch movies for whatever reason. Never did.
No. 21619
Lovecraft isn't a very good writer. Or I should say, he had greatness in him, but it only expressed itself sporadically, and he's only remembered so well now because he was the first to do what he did.

The Terrible Music of Erich Zann is by far his best piece. Almost everything else is a variation on the same plot, with all suspense ruined because you know exactly what's coming later (oh wow, that ancient inscrutable alien race that I hinted at for 50 pages actually exists! spooo0oooOo0oky!).

Call of Cthulhu, the Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, and Erich Zann cover all of the distinct narrative styles that Lovecraft employs, and along with At the Mountains of Madness, they're all that people should go out of their way to read if they want to know Lovecraft. There are some other short pieces that are readable, but if I can't even remember the titles, clearly they're not that important to the literary heritage of mankind.
No. 21620 Kontra
Mate, you're missing out on a whole world of refined intellectuality. At least watch the Dollars trilogy by Sergio Leone. Or just the Good, the Bad, and the ugly. That's peak cinema, and will impress you with what the art form can do.
No. 21621
211 kB, 575 × 977
>The Aeneid
It will naturally suffer compared to the Iliad as a result of being explicit propaganda commissioned by the state, rather than a cultural standard that achieved its status organically as a result of popular acclaim. Regardless of its quality, it kind of had to be cemented as the Latin epic of note, because it was the only one.

If you're looking for other latter-day epic poetry, there was a spate of them in Renaissance inspired by Homer and Virgil, many of them spontaneous expressions of artistic vision. I tried reading La Araucana, about the conflict between conquistadors and the Mapuche (the only native group to ever effectively push back), by a man who participated in the conflict and jotted down stanzas in between battles. However, my Spanish wasn't up to snuff, and I didn't want to read it in translation.

You might want to look up a German translation, though, as it's an interesting and rather unique subject matter for a narrative epic, and I can't think of another written about a war by a man directly participating in it. It'd also be a good way to measure the general quality of Renaissance era epics, as it was highly regarded in its day.
No. 21623 Kontra
I wanna add that you miss a lot of aesthetically and intellectual appealing art form.

But like every art form, there is a lot of shit or mediocre stuff. Then again some things are so bad or special that it's good again. But seriously, tasteofcinema.com lists will provide you with films that are classics, or hidden gems at least as an outsider to this art form you will get many movies the average cape shit guy knows nothing about
No. 21633
Just finished Hamsun's Hunger. This novel was complete madness and at times it hit so close home that it was almost too painful to read on. Especially when the lady the protagonist somehow happened to get a date with laughed about him for being so sensitive and easy to scare, only to send him off after disgustedly realising that he is a madman and failing writer. Not to mention the descripted manic states, sudden waves of megalomania and then again feeling like the most worthless human being on the whole planent. It was a torture to read, in a cathartic kind of way.

Next book to read will be "Die Heiden von Kummerow" by Ehm Welk, a novel about the adventures of german youths in a small village at times of the Kaiserreich. Seems very comfy but also well written, I definitely need something like that after Hunger.
No. 21634
67 kB, 1040 × 520
99 kB, 660 × 280
49 kB, 302 × 500
292 kB
So this Gene Wolfe guy died a few days ago. I've heard a lot of good of things about him, particularly even outside of Sci-Fi circles, so I'm going to start his Shadow of the Torturer. Ernst is welcome to join me.

Sounds pretty good, I've also missed out on Bernhard so far, might as well pick this one up

I've had the assumption for a while, but now I'm sure you are stuck in modernity :^DDDD

>It will naturally suffer compared to the Iliad as a result of being explicit propaganda commissioned by the state
For sure, though the 2nd and 4th book were quite good poetically (if not for some minor qualms)
>La Araucana
Thanks for your recommendation, my plan is to read the Divine Comedy next though, then possibly Jerusalem Delivered by Torquato Tasso
No. 21640
I read Shadow of the Torturer a few years ago, and I didn't see what all the fuss was about. I suppose I'll try it again and see if my opinion has changed.
No. 21647
I thought his magnum opus was Book of the New Sun. Or at least I saw people talk about that one mainly, with its Catholic and other philosophical influences.

>I've had the assumption for a while, but now I'm sure you are stuck in modernity :^DDDD
Elaborate on this one, please.
No. 21655
He is a typical "above average early 20th century writer".
A lot of what he wrote, he wrote for money, and it shows. I don't think he should be judged for this. Everyone has to eat.
His "passion projects" are good though.

I was either too much of a brainlet to understand that one when I was 15-16, but that's pretty much felt like an incomprehensible fever dream with the weird stairs into bone piles and cats killing ghouls in a cemetery. "Something happened, and I'm not sure why" - the novel.

His worthwhile pieces are:
>Call of Cthulhu
>The Music of Erich Zahn
>The Colour Out of Space
>The Shadow Over Innsmouth
>The Dunwich Horror
Haven't read At the Mountains of Madness, so I can't give you my 10 cents on that one, but it must be good.
No. 21661
>Lovecraft isn't a very good writer.
I tend to agree. Beside what you wrote, he also writes about the horrors his heroes face in an assburger, "robotic" fashion which makes it unenjoyable. However I kinda blame the different zeitgeist we are products of, we had the opportunity to watch all kinds of horror movies which desensitize us and change our way of viewing such things. Maybe his contemporaries could find his descriptions immersive or bone-chilling.
No. 21665
I liked Tales from the Witch House and Pickman's Model. Mountains of Madness was alright, I felt he dwelt too long describing the aerial view of them. I already had the mental picture the first time.
No. 21666
166 kB, 519 × 720
Sort of. People like to forget he was a pulp author which tended to be the penny dreadfuls of their day. His ideas are more influential than the man himself, and even then he fits pretty snugly into the weird genre that was big at the time. Chambers was basically Lovecraft before Lovecraft was a thing even, with a lot of modern Lovecraft mythos incorporating bits that actually have nothing to do with Lovecraft, specifically anything mentioned about Carcosa, the Yellow Sign or the King in Yellow, and even Carcosa was based on earlier weird fiction.
t. Carcosa mythos appreciator
No. 21667
>I kinda blame the different zeitgeist
That's a valid point, but Lovecraft never was cutting edge when it came to his techniques or world views, even back then, he was sort of "outdated" a bit. (Btu frankly, he lived on the edge of an old era, and he clung to it quite stubbornly, but he wouldn't be Lovecraft if he didn't do so.)
You could mistake him for someone from the Victorian Era if you didn't know better, and he thought of the world in a Victorian fashion well until he died. (aside from a short little romance with National socialism, from which he distanced himself by the late twenties/early thirties.)
I'd say his "robotic" reactions could be attributed to his "love" for his British (or more like English) heritage. (For he was mainly an Anglo-supremacist above all else.)
And of course there is also the fact that we are a lot more visual media oriented (as you rightly mentioned), but because I never saw a horror movie in my life, I get goosebumps from reading Lovecraft. Heck, I got chills running down my spine from reading Dracula.

I hate the fact how people meme'd his works and universe to death. Not to be a contrarian elitist hipster, but commercializing it killed all the fun that was in the original stories.
I'm glad his "newly surfaced" racism "killed" the Lovecraft hype a bit.

And I think I wrote enough hot takes for today
No. 21670
>Chambers was basically Lovecraft before Lovecraft was a thing
They differ quite a bit. To me Chambers (at least his stories from King in Yellow; I haven't read anything else by him, although The Maker of Moons is in my plan-to-read list for a long time already) was more reminiscent of some of the weirder Edgar Allan Poe stories. In my opinion, out of the older authors the closest one to Lovecraft without actually being Lovecraft is probably Arthur Machen, although unlike Lovecraft who usually dismissed supernatural in favor of relatively scientific, he professed a sort of mystical, dualistic philosophy in his works, which landed him closer to fantasy than to science fiction.
No. 21683
Most of the King in Yellow as a book is Weird or Decadent and heavily influenced by the ideals of Art Nouveau since he studied art in Paris around the time it was in its infancy, in that post I'm mostly talking about the Carcosa mythos which at its core is The Repairer of Reputations, The Yellow Sign, The Prophets' Paradise, In the Court of the Dragon and sort of includes the original An Inhabitant of Carcosa by Ambrose Bierce which isn't set in the same place since it's written before Chambers was writing the King in Yellow, but it also doesn't contradict anything that Chambers reveals.

Chambers is also interesting in that he mostly wrote kind of garbage romance which were his passion projects but his weird fiction is just better despite most of it being done to support himself financially. For an interesting mix of the two, I'd recommend The Mystery of Choice. It's a prime example of his roots in French Decadent literature. Simultaneously beautifully evocative and mildly unsettling.

The Tree of Dreams is kind of similar, but is more lighthearted and the weird aspects are toned down. The Decadent roots are still there though, so if you like prose, it's pretty nice. Overall pretty hit and miss though. The Maker of Moons is also interesting, though the titular story is the best. It reminds me a bit of The Repairer of Reputations in structure. Worth a read, even if you skip the rest.
No. 21687
1,0 MB, 2000 × 1737
48 kB, 768 × 432
So, I finished reading Wagner's Tristan und Isolde libretto. It fell quite a bit short of my expectations after reading the Ring's libretto.
It felt like a fragment of a greater work. (And considering how the story itself survived through assimilating into the Grail-mythos and in two French poetic fragments, I'm not surprised.)
It's probably better as an opera, but I can't stomach an opera. I expected a drama, and all I got was a libretto (which shouldn't be surprising, but after the Ring, it's a bit dissapointing.)

I read a bilingual edition. The German version is pretty melodic and poetic. I actually switched over to reading it in German completely by the end.

The most interesting idea in it was how the pair sought "liberation" in death, as in, how they'd lose themselves totally in an eternal night of pleasure, so much so that they'd become one. (In contrast with the Sunlight, which represents life that chains and separates them.)
Reminded me a bit of NGE's ending.
Otherwise it's just felt rather barebones and not really epic at all.

My approach to Wagner is probably fundamentally flawed, since it goes against the cohesion of the Gesamkunstwerk. I don't even know why I care about his works when I don't like singing.
No. 21732
Don't know why the fuck you'd bother with Wagner when you can read his source material. Operatic librettos are a necessarily constrained medium that are subject to the demands of the music. If you can enjoy opera, it's the full ensemble of instruments and lyrics and voice that create a unique and worthy art form. Each part on its own will be somewhat lacking.

The only opera I've liked is some early romantic stuff, Carmen, and Mozart's comedies. But when you get a combination of lyrics and stellar delivery by the singer, it elevates the emotion of the instrumental music. IMO, it's the only way for Romantic music to carve out a worthy niche next to Baroque music. A good Vivaldi concerto with all its dancing disparate voices is sublime and transcendental, inhabiting a space beyond words. But a good romantic opera is able to ignite more base human emotions, and then elevate them to an almost transcendental level. Florestan's aria from Beethoven's Fidelio is one of my favorite pieces of music (but the delivery matters a lot in opera; the only recording that really does it for me can't be found on Youtube).

Wagner is a good composer for epic video game and movie scenes, but his works lack the sincere personal emotion or light-hearted fun that make for good opera. TBH I don't know what people see in him. Without his association with German nationalism, I don't think he'd have come to occupy nearly the same place in the operatic canon that he has now.
No. 21733
>Don't know why the fuck you'd bother with Wagner when you can read his source material.
Because I'm a masochistic idiot who does things for no good reason.
No. 21735 Kontra
>his works lack the sincere personal emotion or light-hearted fun that make for good opera
if this isn't trolling it has to be the most ignorant statement about wagner i've ever read. it's one thing to prefer verdi over wagner or dislike wagner as a person or having personal preferences and a general opinion about opera, but accusing wagner of lacking "sincere emotion" and degrading his work as "accompaniment and accessory for video games and hollywood movies" is just plain idiotic. maybe you have never witnessed a decent performance of one of wagner's works, but you also seem to be completely unaware of how innovative and influential wagner, as a composer, for both 19th century opera and for contemporary music, was.
No. 21745
Please give a link to your ideal performance of Wagner then. I'm able to change my mind.
No. 21753
Any novelists, male and female, that wrote about 80s USA?1978-1992 as a random time span I'm also in for more experimental stuff as well, looking more for underground stuff or less known goodies but just hit me up with everything that comes to your minds
No. 21754
i'm not a big wagner fan myself, however i think actual wagner enthusiasts would rank karl böhm's recordings finest among others such as wilhelm furtwängler's and herbert v. karajan's interpretations. i like karl böhm's, pierre boulez' and kurt masur's works best. the latter two are my favourite conductors in general, so i'm a bit biased there, since i like pretty much anything by them anyway. i prefer concerts over opera and theatre and have been to an opera house only twice in my life, so i have no clue what's considered the best wagner inszenierung (didn't find a suitable english word) and i don't read opera feuilletonists either. relatives of mine liked peter konwitschny's and omer meir wellber's tannhäuser at semper opera dresden a lot.

tristan (karl böhm):

rheingold (pierre boulez):
No. 21759
>didn't see what all the fuss was about.

Finished it now as well. I liked it, but yeah, it wasn't exactly mind-blowing. I actually did catch myself getting somewhat flustered when trying too hard to read too much into some parts of it.
Felt like a throwback to the fantasy novels I used to read as a teen, but a bit more thought out with more elaborate language (i.e. all the Greek and Latin termini) and world-building (kind of intriguing as not too much was revealed so I feel compelled to read on - I guess that's the trick of those multi-volume works) and some philosophical and dream interludes. The pacing seemed somewhat haphazard at times, maybe it's just in my memories but I think "normal" fantasy novels tend to be a bit more straightforward and formulaic. Anyways I didn't mind that too much.

>I thought his magnum opus was Book of the New Sun.
That's what the series is called, Shadow of the Torturer is the first volume of 4 (or 5?)

>Elaborate on this one, please.
Eh, it's just funny to me how you nonchalantly dismiss the whole medium of cinema like that:
>I don’t watch movies for whatever reason. Never did.
Adding that to your literary tastes and attitudes it's not a far-fetched observation I think. However nothing wrong with that, I just felt like being cheeky :^)

No underground tips from me sadly, just more or less from the top of my head:
Bret Easton Ellis ofc (Less Than Zero, Rules of Attraction, American Psycho)
Ballard's High-Rise (though technically published in 1975, it should fit the aesthetic)
DeLillo's White Noise (though I haven't read it myself, sounds like it should fit well)

Depending on what's your goal, it might be also interesting to look at movies from that era.
No. 21761
>>I don’t watch movies for whatever reason. Never did.
>Adding that to your literary tastes and attitudes it's not a far-fetched observation I think. 

It's the same for me tbh. Got several cinephile friends who pretty much told me fuck all about Herzog, Tarkovsky, Bergman, Leone, Kubrick, Lynch and who not but I didn't watch a single movie from all of those. I only ever watch movies when friends take me with them to cinema or want to watch a movie at home and I join them. I feel rather trapped when watching movies. I think Benjamin wrote that while a literary work changes his form by the reader and whatever is happening happens due to his imagination, the perception in movies is always the same. Nero in Quo Vadis? will always look like Peter Ustinov and his songs will always sound the same, no matter who watches it.
No. 21764
Bright Lights, Big City by Jay McInerney. Didn't like it much personally, but it wasn't awful, so you might try it. It's also just a little teeny-tiny bit experimental: it's written in second person.
No. 21786
20 kB, 308 × 499
I'd agree that the imagination is restricted with films, yet they can appeal aesthetically different to you than a book does.

>and his songs will always sound the same, no matter who watches it.

You could say that a book always looks and reads the same, reception of films is also different from person to person.

Thought about Ellis some years ago but never bought Less than Zero, I have a DeLillo book here after watching this movie with the limousine driving thru New York. Ballard is British and not sure if he wrote it with actual USA impressions in his back.

Reading Ästhetik des Erscheinens by Martin Seel atm. It's an aesthetic of presence more or less. An Object/Event or their multiplicities erscheinen in your aesthetic preception in their manifold being, they are unbestimmbar in the end, the rational/propositional perception is able to bestimmen but an endless move that never grasps the whole thing in itself but only fragements whereas the aestethical perception and recognition does grasp it always as a whole. Art and aesthetical perception of an object or event in general is an enhanced attention for your own presence. Thanks to aesthetical imagination you can also make non existent objects or events (from the past or future or never existing at all) present. So your flashes from childhood while being at the sea count as aesthetical perception and imagination at once.

I'm halfway thru and it's not explained thoroughly by me but it's really a good book to start when reading about aesthetics.

The publishers note:
Der Kunst der Gegenwart wird oft unterstellt, daß sie ihre Existenz bestimmten Theorien verdanke und von sich aus keine unmittelbare ästhetische Wirkung hervorbringe. Hätten diese Stimmen recht, müßte es genügen, die theoretischen Debatten über die Kunst zu verfolgen – auf die Auseinandersetzung mit den Werken könnte man getrost verzichten. Gegen eine solche Verkürzung erhebt Martin Seel Einspruch und setzt ihr den Entwurf einer Ästhetik entgegen, die auf der einzigartigen Erscheinung der Kunstwerke besteht.
No. 21799
Eh, I mean whatever floats your boat, but I think it's rather silly to invoke Benjamin who barely witnessed what film is capable of during his lifetime as an authority on film. Cinema, then TV, now streaming have been arguably the most important medium of the 20th century so I think some further critical engagement wouldn't hurt.

Less Than Zero should definitely be a great starting point IMO.

>Ballard is British and not sure if he wrote it with actual USA impressions in his back.
You're right of course. I guess there is nothing specifically USA about it, but neither is it particularly British I'd say (though it supposedly takes place in the outskirts of London). Maybe it's a bit of a stretch, but I'd say High-Rise (and afaict some of his other works as well) deals with the sort of decaying, detached Zeitgeist of 70s-80s globalized culture that America can be taken as an epitome of. At least that's my explanation of why I'd associate it with that.
No. 21880
Could have sworn I replied to this already, but I must have left the page without posting it.

Jumping through those two recordings doesn't do anything to change my impression of Wagner as alternately generic and overly bombastic. But then, if I was trying to convince someone of Beethoven's genius as an operatic composer and then just gave them a link to a 2-hour performance of Fidelio, they would be completely lost too unless they were in the mood to sit down and listen to the entire thing.

Are there any arias or other set pieces that you would point to as peak Wagner? I listen to opera as classical-music-with-vocals, not as musicals with classical music, so I almost never sit down to listen to a whole opera at once. Especially if there's incidental filler music between the set pieces; it just detracts from the emotion and seriousness of the work as a whole.
No. 21881
German Ernst is right. Would you discount painting as an art form in its entirety because it depicts fixed subjects? Limitations add as much value as they take away; a movie gives you less room to add to a piece yourself, but it's also able to more vividly and exactly deliver a genius's artistic vision, and the combination of sight and sound and narrative context can evoke emotions in a way that is just impossible in pure text.

And to our Hungarian friend, if you watch anime you're already watching the same medium as film and long-form television. There's nothing fundamentally different about the action being portrayed by cartoons than by people and stage trickery. Now imagine if you had never seen any anime, just because you never bothered to. You would agree that your life's artistic experience would be poorer, no?
No. 21883
I'll watch a movie if I feel the need to watch one.
No. 21898
Despite not being part of the conversation, I'd like to throw in that I find it rather silly to start a comparison of books and movies. They are two totally different forms of art and besides the idea of 'telling a story' in one way or another, I don't see much in common which would give a reasonable basis for books vs. movies or whatever.

Just my two cents.
No. 21899
Cmon man, just take a hit of the Kubrick. You'll never know how you lived without it. First hit is free!
No. 21906
You said it already, they are both art, yet have a different form. Perhaps everything we call art has a common denominator that makes them all comparable besides their different forms. I mean even in fine arts the objects are very different in itself, in their form, yet you can compare them.

They work different, but perhaps can have the same effect, an effect of art.The German book from my post about the aesthetic of presence just postulates this. Art is a special mode of perception. Aesthetical perception is unreduced phenomenological perception of an object or event or series of events and objects. They appear or emerge (erscheinen, dunno what would be a good translation tbh, and it's rather crucial here) in a certain way. The artistic appearance or emergence (there are also different modes of appearance) is a presentation of a certain constellation, that both presents a presence, be it from the past the future, the contemporary or non existent in RL at all, and is present in itself and therefore open for an indefinable play with the object of art itself, grasp it's presence in an unreduced manner while also being aware of a presentation of a presence that is different in time or space. These works for the fine arts, film and literature, as well as a mob or summer day in the city, tho the ladder examples have a different mode of appearance
No. 22066
So I finished Winston’s War by Michael Dobbs.
Very well written and seamlessly switches between different character’s point of view.
Quiet chunky at just under 700 pages.
Fictional account of Churchill and other characters from just before WW2 and Churchill becoming prime minister.

Do love the feel of physical books.

Next up another chunky book, smaller text size and over 600 pages

The Cartel by Don Wilson
About Mexican-American drug wars, apparently based on true events.
No. 22072
>Do love the feel of physical books.

Ditto. Books are my single shopping-weakness. I can walk past anything in the stores except books, need to touch them, pick them up, feel their weight when I read the back.
No. 22073
the utility, the smell, the stains.
Should I use a bookmark, I have a habit of folding the corners.
No. 22113
You're overthinking things mate. Good art is something that leaves a (good) lasting impression. Can you think of a work of good art that was forgettable, or bad art that you'd think back on and say "huh, that made me feel".

Ignoring cinema ignores an entire world of unique aesthetic experiences that you would leave an effect on you for the rest of your life. There's a power to concrete representation of a world and narrative distilled into a 2-hour window.
No. 22114 Kontra
I used to feel like this, but more and more I find that the utility of e-books makes them a superior format. I have a huge and fascinating book on Chinese history, but it's so damn unwieldy to even use the damn thing that I find myself reading other history books just because I can fit them on my phone and open them up casually any moment I get the mood to read.
No. 22115 Kontra
>You're overthinking things mate

It's a general theory of aesthetics that I was reading and this guy was proposing.

Artistic appearance is just one mode of of an aesthetic perception/experience.
Besides a piece of shitty art can have a lasting impression in the way of being remember for what it was, shitty art.
A woman can have a lasting impression on you but she is not a work of art in a narrow sense. But imagination is aesthetical perception, following the book I was reading.
No. 22266
2,7 MB, 2746 × 4032
Now then. I'm finally done with reading Hunger.
I mean, it was well written and all, but I felt that it lacked some sort of spark.
It's one of those "I'm a suffering young adult in a big city" book, and I like those.
The problem with this one, is that it goes nowhere. Everything just sorta "happens".
Of course, I "associate" with the main character quite often, especially with his work ethic of "oh no, someone opened a window in the near vicinity, my whole day is ruined, and I won't be able to get any "work" done", a code which I follow, 100%, but man, this is not enough.
It's sort of like "What if Raskolnikov went outside and didn't start a pesticide operation, and he already believed in God".
Of course, there is that great speech, when the MC denounces his faith and God[spoiler], that was sort of "epic", but otherwise this thing went nowhere. I don't think the MC learnt a single thing.
I must be missing something. Maybe the literature-historical context or something, but as it stands, I fail to see why this is an acclaimed book.
No. 22267
> I must be missing something. Maybe the literature-historical context or something, but as it stands, I fail to see why this is an acclaimed book.

Depends on how it is made. A lot of great books reveal their potential only if you really acknowledge how it works. Oftentimes I don't really get it that fast or not at all. A good story is not everything. Then again literature studies does not mean criticism but it helps you alot with the how books are made, how does this piece of art "work". Maybe you could read something about the method of structuralism, like Roland Barthes. It's a famous method to analyse a literary text. There is Russian and French structuralism afaik and it was a shaker in the 1960s concerning literature studies.
No. 22270
Inspecting the problem for the second time, I think it might be the fact, that I see the elements
>Raskolnikov-type character
>Mental transubstantiation through hunger and starvation
>The absence of God
But I don't see how this leads up to something. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, not even the headlights of a train. There are all these elements, and they lead to nothing. Pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that were shipped in the same box, but don't give us a coherent picture when we assemble it.
No. 22272
Hunger is a suffering artist's psychogram, it's less about some overarching plot but rather about descriptions of the protagonist's state of mind which varies between belittling himself and then feeling megalomania again, jumping from melancholy to ecstasy. As an artist you live in the inherent danger of becoming a mere joke of a human at the end of the day. Even though you spend all your time writing you end up homeless and piss poor on the street among the hobos, being so hungry that you chew litte wood splitters. The humiliation you face when confronted with your bitter reality while feeling like a semi-god when your muse kisses you. That's pretty much Knut Hamsun's Hunger. Maybe you need to identify a bit more with the protagonist to really get behind it or personally suffer more in alike way in your life, for me at least it was a read so intense and painful that I really struggled to continue reading it at times.
No. 22273
>Maybe you need to identify a bit more with the protagonist to really get behind it
That's the weird part, because I did identify with him quite a bit at times, but despite this, I feel like nothing special has happened.
Honestly, who doesn't have that moment or day of ecstasy where they claim victory after victory, only for those to be vanquished by a single small defeat the next day? Who?
Despite it all, I didn't get much enjoyment out of it. (Much to my disappointment. It was like reading about a magnified, shameful reality of mine at times.)
No. 22277
>Honestly, who doesn't have that moment or day of ecstasy where they claim victory after victory, only for those to be vanquished by a single small defeat the next day? Who? 
Yes, only that he is paying the price for those small defeats in continual loss of his mental and physical sanity. And he can barely cope with his pretty much non-existant social status (remember how he would always find excuses for seling his the last clothes he wore), even something that is supposed to be fun like the date with Ylajali turns out to stress him out because he doesn't even have money to pay a some drink for the two of them. He is terribly ashamed about being too poor to even feed his basic instincts, while at the same time thinking about writing the next literary masterpiece. See, ups and downs are a natural part of life for sure and the explosive mixture of ecstasy and melancholia has always been part of the mental state of the most artists. But the situation depicted in Hunger is extreme, because his life depends on it. He writes to survive, the only way he can make any use of himself out there is by creating art. Your hair falling out at early age because you can't earn enough money with what you're best at isn't a small defeat, it's a constant existential terror.
Imagine human life as a pendulum that constantly swings to the left and to the right, the protagonist's pendulum swings extremely fast until it makes him go insane. Pretty much what modern psychiatry calls bipolar disorder.

Then again the novel has many humouristic elements in it as well, at least I had to laugh a lot at scenes like the one with the blind old hobo and his box where Ylajali was indirectly introduced. Or the scene where the protagonists tricks a policeman into believing that he found a little papercup with some stuff in it (forgot what it was).
But also the tragedy is there, how did you feel when after all Ylajali just got scared of him when she realized that he's only a poor madman and wasn't drunk when following her around back in the park? I found that to be one of the most heartbreaking scenes I've ever read so far.

But then again, we're talking about literature. Maybe you just don't feel it after all. I do agree though that the whole novel is centered around one idea that is pushed to the excess, after all it's called Hunger. Reading it hasn't given me a clear impression what kind of prose to await from Hamsun. A very singular novel, an author can only pull it once. I'll read Pan by him soon and see.
No. 22281
>Or the scene where the protagonists tricks a policeman into believing that he found a little papercup with some stuff in it (forgot what it was).
I didn't find that funny, because for a moment, the protagonist also "tricked himself" that there are gold coins in that little paper cup out of desperation. It was supposed to be a prank on his part, but it immediately "backfired" and he punched himself in the stomach with it.

Honestly, the most oppressive parts were the ones, where he lied for no apparent gain. The protagonist wasn't ready to give up his appearance as an upright and trustable man and get help. (For example when he was sleeping at the city hall and he lied that he "just lost his wallet", and thanks to this, he missed out on that free warm meal he had no good reason to miss out on.)
Or how he accidentally go money from that shop clerk, and got rid of it to clear his conscience, even though he earlier renounced God, freeing himself from morality.

It's very probable that I'm attacking it from a wrong axis, and this "It's like Crime and Punishment" thread is leading nowhere. I'm not feelin' it man, and it's like I'm missing out on something. I probably got embroiled in grand, overarching narratives a bit too much.
No. 22299
Sure the scenes you mention are sad in a whole, maybe that's exactly why I found them so funny - sort of a Galgenhumor. But it's been in that tone for me during the whole novel. In contrast to you I didn't take the speech against god seriously at all, I mean he believed that he himself would be important enough for god to spit on him. I generally felt like the protagonist in Hunger was a tragicomic character, as are the most failing artists. I especially had to laugh at the end of the novel which seemed highly ironic to me. All the existential struggle, all the pain and suffering just to get a job on a ship. So the answer to not suffering Hunger on the streets as a poor poet is to just get a god-damn job. Reminds me of the saying the Kazakh always mentioned about washing a donkey's ass.
To me this irony was obvious throughout the whole book, I couldn't take most of the stuff the protagonist seriously. If there's someone whose words you shouldn't take seriously, it will probably be an insane artist. The depicted events' absurdity might as well have added to my perception. Absurdity in literature often comes with great sadness but it's often funny as well. Did you read some absurd theatre by any chance, Beckett or Ionesco?

Also reminds me of what I've read today about the reception of the film "The Cremator" by Juraj Herz.
>"In Prague, people were depressed; in Slovakia, they laughed; in the Netherlands, it was a comedy from the beginning to the end"

And don't worry about missing out, there is no shame in doing so. It's only natural and important in life and in literature as well.
You will never be able to grasp the full meaning of a piece of literature, it's just not possible and not even desirable.
No. 22332
6,0 MB, 62 pages
No. 22631
Finished Ehm Welk's Die Heiden von Kummerow, it was quite good and at the end even left a quite intense impression to me. Might particularily be the case because of the novel being partly autobiographical which obviously leads to high authenticity of the characters, locations and language. Also it's of pretty high historical value, getting profound insights into the everyday life of a german small town around 1910 is very exciting. And it's really lots of fun. Soon I'll order myself Die Gerechten von Kummerow and I decided to visit the town it's based on one day.
Only downside of my edition was published in the early days of the GDR so some former christian elements were substituted with commie bullshit.

Also started reading some non-fiction again, Autor und Autorschaft by Ernst Jünger. It's a very enlightening read about authorship and many of his aphorisms and quotes have already found their way into my constant memory. There are several parts though (especially the more philosophical) that I can't get behind fully as I've only read fiction by him and at those passages it seems like you as a reader should be knowledgeable about his philosophy and terminology, especially as it's a quite late work of Jünger.

Additionally I'm reading a single story of Bocaccio's Decameron a day, which is really rewarding and a suitable way to read this book. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have had the temper for reading a roughly thousand pages long work filled with amorous stories from medieval Europe.

Probably today I'll start reading Knut Hamsun's Pan, I'm quite excited about it. As Hamsun was a point of discussion here lately, I'll come back and write more about the novel once I'm far enough in or through with it.
No. 22634
59 kB, 704 × 1080
Hungaryball read Das Kalkwerk not long ago, I heard a radio play of it a few months ago and it was great, so I was convinced to buy a Bernhard book myself, borrowed Alte Meister from the library when the some German Ernst wrote about it here.

Anyway, I bought Holzfällen. Eine Erregung
It's a proper Bernhard novel from all I've read about him, heard about him and read myself so far.
The story is short, since it's a monologue. The narrator sits in a chair and thinks about how he got into the situation he is now. He was invited by some old "acquaintances" he met on the street, who told them about the suicide of an old friend, which he already knew about, they invite him to an evening at their place where there will be a künstlerisches Abendessen. But since he hates these people he wonders why he still agreed on showing up and actually did. He also thinks about the friend who committed suicide and about the art scene and life of so called artists in Vienna.
The narrator oscillates between hate and love, nostalgia and hate for it. He unmasks the others as well as himself. And everything is crafted in this great observational skill. Words that resemble arrows. His memory about the funeral in the countryside, especially the Leichenschmaus, is hilariously written e.g.
No. 22636
His stuff is really good, innit?
The attention to detail and the strange atmosphere it creates is incredible.
I want to read Alte Meister too, since I was gifted a copy, and I can't wait to experience the magic again.
No. 22637
I've been reading poems by Mayakovsky recently, and it's pretty good.
The themes can be undeniably soviet, but he sounds unique and genuine, not like a paid tool of the party. The verse has so much momentum and vigour, it's like being carried by the blowing wind.
And at least I now know where the line
>Lenin lived, Lenin lives, Lenin will live!
comes from.
No. 22639
346 kB, 763 × 1000
Yeah, Mayakovsky is one of the few pro-Soviet poets who is actually good. Also, do you read him in Russian? I bet his poetry loses much of its energy in translation. Like, here's an example of a performance meant as a parody, but somehow managing to grasp the way in which Mayakovsky's poems should be read:

Oh, and a friend of mine told me a funny story regarding Mayakovsky's poems. In the poem "Вам!" ("To You!" in translation, probably) there's a line:
>Я лучше в баре блядям буду подавать ананасную воду!
which rouhgly translates as "I'd rather serve pineapple water to whores in the bar!". So my friend's classmate, when he got an assignment to learn any Mayakovsky's poem by heart and read it to class, picked "Вам!". When he was reading it and almost reached the last line, his teacher figured that this poem isn't exactly appropriate to read in the school, so she hastily stopped him. He insisted that he should finish reading the poem, but she told him that it was already clear that his performance is perfect and gave him the top grade XD. I thought of reading it too when I was in school, but I didn't have the balls to do that.
No. 22640
I have to read it in translation, sadly.
His writings give off the essence of a true poet who fell in love with October not for ideological but for aesthetic reasons.
>To you!
Just checked, it’s in the anthology I have. Has the same ending, almost word for word.
Man, I just had a good laugh.
No. 22709
Yeah, I can recommend Holzfällen as well. Personally worked better for me than Alte Meister. I finished it now and the künstlerisches Abendessen is double bound in meaning. It's a dinner with artists but it could also be a dinner with phoney/false people.It works well with the German word künstlich and its etymological connection to Kunst/künstlerisch. Just one thing to point out regarding this novel. Talking behind peoples back, hating them while saying how nice it is to meet again. The phoniness/falseness within the art scene as depicted here seems to be a special case of this common behavior, somehow performed by the book or its narrator itself. We are all in the same boat.

I was a bit confused about the Holzfällen title and what is made of it in the book. Sure the rant could be associated with Holzfällen but then there is this scene on the last pages where it's actually dropped in a different context, can't get it both together really.
No. 22763
Read My Struggle by Adolf Hitler. I was expecting a deep insight into Nazi ideology or at least some curious conservative ideas, but I guess it's better to look into Rosenberg for the former (can't guarantee that, though: I tried to read his Myth of the Twentieth Century, but never managed to go further than several pages) or Evola for the latter. The book in question is partly instruction manual for creating and developing your own radical political movement (not sure how useful in real life this information would be, but since the author had pretty decent success with his party back in the days, it may be assumed that an aspiring political leader could at least apply some of these ideas to building a party in the modern world), partly propaganda piece (aimed mostly at the potential "middle management" of the party; Hitler didn't believe in using books for propaganda purposes amongst the wide audience and preferred either rousing speeches or succinct papers like the 25-point Program, so this book is mostly for people who can take their time indoctrinating themselves, especially if you consider its ridiculous length), and the rest is ramblings of a conspiracy theorist (complete with absolutely wonderful word combinations like "Marxist gangs of the international Jewish finance capital" — possibly a courtesy of Gottfried Feder, who apparently influenced Hitler a lot and who was also mentioned in the book) intertwined with some Malthusian ideas and attempts to apply "social Darwinism" on the geopolitical scale. I wouldn't say it was completely uninteresting, because at the very least it can be used as a means of looking into the psychology of an obssessed man.

There were also some cute details, like how much of an angloboo Hitler actually was. Whenever the British Empire is mentioned, he compares it favorably to the Austrian or German government, praises it in every way and says that Germany should follow its example. He likes USA too, but he is concerned that it may have fallen under the Jewish influence. Other countries of the world aren't treated nearly as well: Italy is only viewed as a potential ally in the conquest of the continent, Russia is a failed state under the Jewish yoke and the primary target of the future German territorial expansion, and the France is the mortal enemy of Germany which must necessarily be destroyed.
No. 22764
3,0 MB, 5000 × 3827
Reading Evola requires a solid knowledge of Plato, Plotinus, Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, the New Testament, St Augustine, Meister Eckhart, the Bhagavad Gita, the Dhammapada, Schuon, Guénon, among others. Evola should only be read after one fully knows the canon, and once grasped, reading him should simply be considered commentary on the source material.

One of my pals once described Revolt Against the Modern World as a Marija Gimbutas fantasy land for right-wingers. Suffice to say, he wasn't too impressed with Evola's material.

The fellows at IronMarch had this chart. Don't know if it will be any help, but figured I'd post it here.
No. 22768
The point is, even if you don't have a proper knowledge basis, Evola's books will still be interesting (read Among the Ruins and Ride the Tiger out of curiosity about ten years ago, it was okay; and Fascism Viewed from the Right is probably his most accessible work), while Hitler's opus is at the same time very boring and very shallow, and there are no complimentary works that could improve the experience of reading it.
No. 22880
I just read Crystalworld, a short story by Viktor Pelevin.
This is some top tier stuff. It's about two guards on duty in revolutionary St.Petersburg.
They snort cocaine, quote poetry, and talk about (then)contemporary philosophy.
The tone is really absurd, yet it feels "just right". I just had a blast with it.
No. 23127
21 kB, 230 × 346
Pianist Gavrilov's autobio, with main theme of "twilight of idols" regarding his friendship with Sviatoslav Richter that grew sour. pretty entertaining.
now he cultivates guru persona and says on his blog that he became a knower while everybody else wasnt even a seeker.
russian interview
No. 23252
Books on trains or railroads?
No. 23356
17 kB, 260 × 336
63 kB, 640 × 640
>The Bethrothed

For Italy's supposed greatest work and the Pope Francis' version of anime I wasn't all that impressed.

By all means there are some good chapters detailing war and the plague or when it goes on a tangent into a side-characters life story (something I loved about Don Quixote) but the main characters were insufferable. I didn't give a fuck about Renzo or Lucia and their entire romance can be summed up as "these people wanted to get married and loved each-other." That's all we get to drive the story. They behaved throughout the book as two teenagers with nothing of substance occurring between them. 720 pages for a relationship that won't last 5 minutes in the real world.

No. 23366
763 kB, 1600 × 1410
Hamsun's Pan was an ecstatic read offering an imagery so vivid I felt like I was dreaming sometimes. Some passages were so great I would have liked to highlight them, not with a marker pen but rather cut them out with a scissor and hang them upon my walls. And there is barely any decoration in my room, only a single painting.
The descriptions of nature were exact and dramatic, the seasons protagonist Glahn goes through in the coastal town of Sirilund seem to organically follow the ups and downs of his love to the young femme fatale Edvarda. Their romance is as brutal and unforgiving as the scenery where it takes place, so painful and elemental that one comes to believe that the word romance itself is nothing more than an euphemism for war.
At the same time it's the tragic story of a lone hero and unrestrained narcissist, a sensitive soul posing as a primitive man and dandy and finally being torn apart by the contradictions of his reality.

Especially to the hungarian I recommend this feverish masterpiece of fiction as he was sort of let down by Hunger.
I yet have to think about what I'll read next, but it will probably be Jack London's "Call of the Wild" as I didn't read any literature written in english for way too long and wanted to read something by him for long as well as his words and counseling on writing were quite helpful to me.
No. 23494
236 kB, 838 × 728
Reading Faust was a great idea. Not only did I overcome my irrational antipathy against Goethe (mostly due to his persona) but also against dramatic plays. It probably mostly still was stemming from school, where (even though German literature was one Leistungskurse/priority classes) did not read a single one of the appointed books. :D
However now it's great to have a new world opening up to me, especially as I finally can read lots of plays by writers whose prose I already treasure, like Heinrich von Kleist.
Probably going to read two more short plays by Goethe now that I'm warmed up. Call of the Wild will have to wait then.
No. 23496
60 kB, 340 × 500
Faust is supposedly great because it's a Menschheitstdrama/Weltdrama or Menschheitsdichtung, at least these were the words we used when we talked about the Hungarian equivalent, sort of. I'd also like to take a moment to shill it, since it's such a fine work of literature, that I can't recommend it enough to everybody.
These types of works are great, because they resonate with us on a deeper level.
I'm sad that I missed out on Faust and Werther when we were studying German literature, but we went so fast that even if I wanted to, I wouldn't have had the time to read either of them properly. Guess it's one more to be written the Catch up list.
No. 23511
214 kB, 550 × 814
I read the Synthetic Age by C.J. Preston, published in 2018 by MIT Press.
He is an environmental philosopher afaik. So in this book he gives an overview of certain technologies that have a shaping capability of nature so far that the employment of these technologies could mean the beginning of an synthetic age he is somehow against the term anthropocene that was coined to show how vast our human influence is one the planet, you will the see existent of humanity in a geological strata one day in the future. The chapters feature nanotechnology, biotechnology, ecosystem modulation and climate engineering. The structure is always the same, it starts with promising and big words from people who are advocates of these technologies, then he cites critics and considerations that are not named or downplayed by the advocates. He doesn't say it's bad or good but comes to the conclusion that such heavy manipulation of nature and their artificial/synthetic creation needs to be debated on a big base and not just by scientists and people/corps with economic interests. The book concludes that "the wild" he offers and interesting inside on why it's a European creation and problematic romanticism will not vanish in the synthetic age, since every technology is wild in itself, not totally controllable, there are no 100% safe predictions on how the employment of a technology will turn out.
No. 23512 Kontra
The last sentence also means that synthetic nature can still be wild since even a gen manipulated bear can be unpredictable, plants grow not as planned etc.
No. 23515
Sounds quite interesting and if my book-list wasn't so long already I'd grab it based on your description.
No. 23517
12 kB, 175 × 288
The examples given are quite interesting and overall the writing is vivid.

I know have this book by Suhrkamps edition unseld which is about Geisteswissenschaften and technology explicitly. Joachim Schummers Nanotechnologie. Spiele mit Grenzen. from 2009. It's more academic yet still not heavy. He studied chemistry, philosophy and sociology. But the tone is different, frankfurtian critic so far. One chapter was about how nanotechnology is a term that exploded around 2000 after the US forged an institute for nanotechnology. In his view many research is just subsumed under this term after 2000 in order to get enough money from the state for your very own research. Nanotech includes a vast array of normal research and is nothing "new" one could say. So I expect from this book to dampen the hype. I'm curious if the author will lose words about the guy (forgot his name already) who in the 1960s talked about "plenty of room at the bottom" what today is called nano scale but according to Schummer had just other names and more specified names before the 1990s/2000
It also wants to locate the technological progress philosophically since the ethics are missing in the discussions. The whole field is driven by certain science politics and not really conform with a good scientific ethos, if I understood the introduction right. Honestly I'm not too keen reading it but it's not long (150p) and might provide a necessary inside. Better two than one argument on a topic. Gives the possibility of comparison as well.
No. 23672
The book was a necessary addition to The Synthetic Age. A bit conservative in its own tho. Like Preston he insists own democratic discussion and mediation to the public that is freed from the extremes of utopia and dystopia something which Preston could be accused of sometimes, holding a speech for rationality in the last section.
For Schummer nanotechnology is a movement that is dangerous since it has it's own technodeterminist metaphysics, as he examplifies with transhumanism. So what Schummer wants is less metaphysics, less myths in the Roland Bartes sense, a collective explanation, a story of orientation, not a lie or urban myth but more rationality that that is achieved by critical intervention of the humanities, especially philosophy. Tho the humanities and especially philosophy have to do change their mode of operation to be really successful in this regard. You cannot let STEM scientists decide about our future since they don't have the competences of social scientists and others in the field of the humanities, the technodeterminist myth production that hoovers over STEM serves as a kind of proof for such incompetence.
No. 23761
I finished reading that book on the history of Hungarian-Japanese relations a few days ago.
It was pretty readable, and at times incredibly funny. On of my favourite anecdotes was how the Japanese Communist Party sent a delegation to Hungary in the early 50s, and before arriving, the members of the delegation reported each other to the State Defence Authority (ÁVH). Just how typical is that :D

Currently halfway through Yu Hua's China in ten words. It's a volume containing ten essays, each centred around the author's experiences/thoughts with/on it during and after the Cultural Revolution.
It's a great read. There is a lot of soul put into it, and despite the oppressive subject matter, it feels colourful. (Tales like how the author as a kid is wandering through the town in search of books, asking all the kids if their families have any books at home, only to find the same four books in every house: Selected works of Mao Zedong 1-4 and Quotations from Chairman Mao Zedong)
I was born well after the winds of Stalinism have died down, so reading about a world where you can't find any books or do anything worthwhile is incredibly fascinating. The author also makes sure to contrast it by how things are today, with a scene he encountered at a book fair, where people were selling stacks of classic literature for 200 yuan, only to be cut under by someone who sold stacks for 100 yuan, or "For the price of waste paper". Just think about it. You can buy a good book for the price of a cheeseburger. It's incredible.

There was a dedicated chapter on Lu Xun, which was quite interesting. I read a bunch of Lu Xun's essays a few years back, and they were really good, but I never really read any of his fiction, besides quickly brushing through The Real Story of Ah-Q, and I didn't really find that one very interesting or touching. I should probably check out more of his writings, so that's one more thing to read during summer break.
I think this book helped reignite my love for Chinese literature yet again, after not reading anything Chinese for a while. Now I'm interested to see how the author's fiction reads like.
No. 23767
I started reading an alleged spy novel.
For some reason it was all about being a kid and spy on his dad who was an actual spy, I gave up after they visited Dacua or some other holocaust shit and well just disappointing.
Next up is a book by a wahmen so I may also give it up before getting far into it.
No. 23771
78 kB, 2 pages
Okay, so I finally managed to sit down and translate the small amount of remaining text, and now I'm done with working on this humoresque.
I had a good laugh while reading it, but I can see why someone would find it to be of poor taste/overly morbid. Just keep in mind that it was written during the First World War.
Thank you for any future input and criticism.
No. 23773
33 kB, 345 × 556
Fukuyama is one of those writers who talks perfect sense until the end of the book when he goes completely into nonsense. Almost an inherent problem with political theory but the laxity he exhibits in this is shocking - multiculturalism is justified with bogus genetics and fast food, a national identity can exist in generic western fluffy values. It's maddening.

I don't mean to come across as some megapede or whatever, there are good points in our needs to feel equal and superior to others or how modern discourse is rooted in a state psychology movement that morphed into emotionalism. He even spends considerable time attacking everyone. The problem is just how lazy his core points were, or maybe just how rooted into lazy establishment thinking he is.
No. 23790
>I'm done with working on this humoresque
You can set your mind at ease on the most important question: This was funny. Politicians often make statements about sacrifice and determination, and the way Karinthy chose to satirize this was very clever. I wouldn't worry about it being morbid. Although torture would normally fall into that category, when set in a farcical context it transforms into comedy.
I know you weren't necessarily asking for a full critique of your translation, but If don't mind my nitpicking I can offer a few suggestions:

>and told me what’s the job supposed to be.
and told me what the job is supposed to be.
>Besides the tub stood an furnace
Beside the tub stood a furnace (here I assumed you intended "beside" to mean "next to". If you used "besides" to mean "in addition to", then please ignore that suggestion).
>they are bringing new soul, who will allotted to me
they are bringing a new soul, who will be alotted to me
>the tub, which’s temperature must be raised
the tub, whose temerature must be raised (English lacks a possesive form for "which", and it is gramatically correct to use the posessive form of "who" in this context).

Other than that, excellent work. Thanks for sharing.
No. 23791
>I know you weren't necessarily asking for a full critique of your translation, but If don't mind my nitpicking I can offer a few suggestions:
I'm incredibly glad, and I was sort of expecting it.
>>Besides the tub stood an furnace
That was just a foolish typo, because I decided to change the word "oven" into "furnace" (to make it have a more "industrial feel"), and it sort of got jumbled up.

I'm going to apply the fixes you've suggested tomorrow. Thank you very much.
No. 23792
I kind of feel that the incorrect quotes could do with correcting or, at least, putting into quotation marks. Maybe that isn't what a translator should do but it would make the text easier to follow.

Humorous or morbid aren't the words I would use, more a sense of poignancy given the time period.
No. 23805
>it sort of got jumbled up.
The same thing happens to me when I decide to rephrase something or rearrange sentences. Some small artifact of the original wording will almost always slip through.
>Thank you very much
Your welcome. I'm glad I could help.
No. 23887
14 kB, 259 × 400
Now that I've finished reading this book, I'm convinced that the Chinese experience reality in a completely different way than we do.
It's like a story-time with your grandpa, full of funny or sometimes sad anecdotes about daily life during the cultural revolution, sometimes touching on the life of the contemporary Chinese.

The thing is, some chapter have incredibly unsettling things in them, like the one where he is talking about the "little people", the grassroots, and mentions the existence of "blood merchants" or "blood magnates", who make a fortune selling blood. Well, not literally, but by networking and sending people to the hospitals which pay the most for blood donations, taking a percentage, netting a net profit for both the blood merchant and the donor. Now, I'm either naive as fuck, and this happens here too (since Hua mentions how barely anyone knows the names of these people, despite their fortunes.), or it's really an unusual and unsettling thing, if only because it involves human blood. (If we want to rationalise it, it's really just someone building a network of suppliers and selling their supplies where the profit is the greatest, that's completely ordinary and usual.)

And despite it all, this is still a colourful chronicle full of soul.
It's also great because it helped me augment my understanding of life under a totalitarian system. While Shostakovich's biographers described the life of a man who was a bona fide urbanite, and a member of the outer elite, this one tells us what it's like to live in a rural town as a "commoner". (It was pretty bad.)

I'd recommend it. Pretty good book.
No. 23888
86 kB, 400 × 400
Sloterdijk , forbidden stuff from ze Internetz and my own writings
No. 23889
Decided to read more Kierkegaard after Fear and Trembling and now I have to watch a damn opera smh
No. 24201
36 kB, 372 × 600
Currently reading Philip Roth's Everyman. It's my first encounter with Philip Roth and generally, I am usually not too much into contemporary American writers but it seems he is a big shot over there.

Anyway, the book so far is entertaining. It starts with the funeral of some everyday Joe, son of lower middleclass Jewish family in. Brooklyn. In the following chapters it tells the story of his life somehow alongside his sickness developing and other important life events.

I am half way through so far, so maybe there's going to be a turning point on which I am missing out yet but from what I've by now I guess the idea of the author was to portray that beauty and triviality often lie close buy just paying attention to the details. It also deals a lot with inter-personal relationships, family issues, all that sort of stuff that certainly wouldn't make it for a blockbuster movie script but are what probably matters most to us since life basically consists of that most of the time.

Also, the book is well written and overall pleasent to read. I have had read rather 'heavy' literature recently so I am very pleased to read something that wouldn't hit me right in the feels or make me drown in thoughts and despair for a change.
No. 24367
After quite a struggle I finally forced my way through the Aeneid.
Didn't like it as much as Homer, but I guess that was to be expected. The language felt less poetic, though that might be in part the fault of the translation I read. Other than that it definitely had some memorable characters and interactions but just didn't feel as epic & the pandering to Augustus was a bit too blatant at times.
But now that I read the first few cantos of the Divine Comedy, which I really like so far for it flows much better due to the different verse structure, I really appreciate having the background knowledge about Virgil's work.
No. 24396
6 kB, 257 × 196
I just started reading this and it struck me how the Chinese look upon the Mao-era as a kind of lost age where "the people" meant something. An era before decadent hyper-capitalism and its harsh morality that swamped everything after Tienanmen.

It is an idea you rarely encounter reading western descriptions of China that focus on the success story. Maybe it is just rose-tinting from young and old because I think every country has a similar nostalgia for the time period.
No. 24584
Read The Night Land by William Hope Hodgson. Since it was recommended by Lovecraft and since I was already familiar with The House on the Borderland, I got the impression that it will be a horror story of some sorts. It turned out to be an adventure story with blotches of romance here and there, set in a post-apocalyptic future, and, unfortunately, this story is a pretty bad one.

It starts with a framing device narrated in ye olde Englishe by a unnamed nobleman who falls in love with his cousin. She reciprocates and they get married, but unfortunately their happiness doesn't last long as she soon dies. We then get sent to a veeeery far grimdark future where the Sun went out and swathes of spooky monsters roam the lands. The narration passes to another unnamed man who is a descendant and reincarnation of the nobleman. He lives in a huge pyramid made of metal together with millions of last surviving humans. He is a telepathic seer of sorts, and one day he manages to communicate with a girl from another, smaller pyramid, and he immediately understands that she is a reincarnation of his former love. They spend days chatting about this and that, but soon the danger befalls the inhabitants of the lesser pyramid, as their Earth-Current (a magic energy of sorts that can supply force barriers, water pumps and lifts and also vanquish evil) dries out. So, after an epic fail of a rescue attempt by some hotheads from the big pyramid, our strong, brave and totally not Mary-Sueish hero decides to venture forth alone to succour his beloved one. The rest of the book is a boring and overly long description of his trip to the damsel in distress and back, with occasional fights against monsters, lovey-dovey moments with The One Maid (except when the hero slaps or even whips her for her "naughtiness" and "perverseness") and kindergarten-level musings about Love and Humanity. That makes the framing story kinda pointless. Well, I can presume that it was used to explain love at first conversation between The Hero and The Maid, but why the hell the author kept narrating the entirety of the book in that obnoxious olde-speake, I, in verity, scarce to wot. So, anyway, when our happy sadomasochistic couple almost got back to the big pyramid, things suddenly take a darker turn, and I was hoping for a tragic ending, but it gets overridden by a happy one in a most stupid, deus ex machina kinda way. What a huge letdown.

This book feels like a total waste. The world itself is very interesting and might be one of the first (if not the first) examples of a dying world, some of its monsters and concepts are very cool, like The Watchers, the Doorways In The Night, the House of Silence, The Silent Ones, The Road Where The Silent Ones Walk (yeah, evidently Hodgson is not particularly good at naming things, but I will let it slide, since they are pretty ebin anyway), but it all gets wasted on a dumb and uninspired adventure/romance story. It reminds me of Michael Moorcock's output, who couldn't for the love of all that is good write an engaging or at least logical plot, but somehow managed to come up with really cool worlds and landscapes. Moorcock's books have a great advantage over The Night Land, though: they are not ridiculously long, so they don't outstay their welcome. So, in conclusion, I don't recommend it. If you're still curious, you might wanna look up either the short version of it called Dream of X or James Stoddard's adaptation for modern audiences The Night Land, A Story Retold.
No. 24868
Started a book on the introduction of the grid investigation within the German criminal investigation department. It tells the story of the cybernetization of the German police force basically from the 1960s to the 1980s history of technologyand what it meant for framing crime and knowledge about crime and how it changed over timehistory of knowledge/discourse analysis and practice that includes Latours ANT approach, which means that also non-human objects are 'doing' things here. So far I've read the chapter where a certain criminal case is described which contemporaries took as a steppingstone of organizational critic. They tried to pin down a burglar, who operated around the town of Osnabrück in the mid-60s, stealing low sums of chash and sweets, pillows for his hideout in the woods, but the accidently shots a man one night. Then the mode of investigation is described and how it failed and basically it's a problem of decentralizational politics and heaps of data that cannot be processed manually anymore, at least not effectively or realistically given the hours it would take people to do this work. I will probably give an overview in the history threda once I'm thru.

I'm also reading on affect theory a bit.
No. 24871
622 kB, 1761 × 987
25 kB, 670 × 384
188 kB, 1280 × 720
477 kB, 1761 × 987
>I just started reading this and it struck me how the Chinese look upon the Mao-era as a kind of lost age where "the people" meant something. An era before decadent hyper-capitalism and its harsh morality that swamped everything after Tienanmen.

I have some nice game for you:

No. 24872
538 kB, 1761 × 987
It precisely describes the situation and the background of the events you mentioned.
No. 24873
Looks very promising, I know the creators of this game thanks to the Crisis in the Kremlin. How did you find it? Not a lot of non-Russians know about those developers.
No. 24879
31 kB, 480 × 360
101 kB, 1272 × 830
4 kB, 640 × 400
184 kB, 639 × 399
>Looks very promising,
It's great. I really liked. And it's awesome in order to get a really unbiased view on the events in China after Mao's death. Also great for education purposes, but I hope the developers will never get the formal offer to make games for history or economic education, cause I fear; it might corrupt their great work.

>How did you find it?
I love this kind of games. I am an Altbernd of the real KC. I have been playing such games since decades.
-Hidden Agenda
-the first crisis in the Kremlin of 1991
-Shadow president
-Stalin’s dilemma
-Balance of Power

And so on
Hence I was following this game genre and I was very glad that those great Russian developers decided to make more games like the ones I love from the 80ies and early 90ies.
>Not a lot of non-Russians know about those developers.
I really like those Russian developers and their excellent work. I like it even so much, that I was not sure about providing a free download link, but I think, that they will take profit out of it.
Just think about Paradox Games started. Without pirating the first Paradox games and in doing so increasing the fan base, Paradox would have never become so big and financially powerful like they are right now.
Hence I hope those great Russian developers can make the same way as Paradox, but not doing the same mistakes like Paradox. And maybe also staying a little more down to earth than Paradox.
No. 24880
>Just think about Paradox Games started

Just think about how Paradox Games started
No. 24902 Kontra
Just bought the catalogue. Good stuff.
No. 24935
7 kB, 240 × 160
>Just bought the catalogue. Good stuff.

I have to admit, that I don't know that game.
Do you have a link?
No. 24945
He probably means he bought the complete catalogue of Paradox’s titles.
Insert an image of Spede Pasanen to the left.
No. 24949
43 kB, 1024 × 576
For the sake of the Brits purse, I hope he has only bought the catalogue of Kremlingames but not of Paradox.
No. 25231
I read a few passages from Fashionable Nonsense by Bricmont/Sokal, their 'critique' of 'postmodernism'

Since my own knowledge on STEM is sadly super thin I believe them, that the use of scientific concepts in STEM made by some french thinkers is not correct. Yet their expectations on that philosophy/theory differs greatly with what these people had in mind, whats even worse is that they have no clue of what these people want to say or think about yeah it's not easy to find out, yet it's not nonsense what they philosophize about, so they take a quote out of context and critique the use of mathematics or the speed of light or the Moebius strip without considering what the philosophy is all about. What it does, or what it serves for is not of interest. So they are right to critique the use of concepts when it's not a metaphor the authors are no real experts in but otherwise the missed the point completely, which stems from their point of view which can be sort out by reading the introduction. The late or even mid Baudrillard e.g. had a theory in mind, that is far of any 'classic' scientific codex. Theory becomes operational here, but not in the way of critique in a normative sense.
No. 25291
21 kB, 218 × 346
So, I finally finished reading it. It's really good. Hiawatha feels like a proper culture-hero who embodies the values of his people to lead them forward.
He gives them safety, food, writing, and rituals. The only strange thing is how this all takes place very close to today.
The penultimate song basically takes out the whole work from this "epic" void where it could take place at any time, or simply be a series of events that differentiated from reality over time, bearing little resemblance to what actually played out.
(Just to bring up the Nibelungenlied again, that takes place entirely in this "pocket dimension" where Attila (Etzel) the Hun reigns, but the Romans don't exist. It's an amalgamation of a probably true rivalry between two queens that somehow merged with the Sigurd/Völsung-mythos down the line. In essence, it takes place in a void. It turns into mythos and legend.)
Longfellow kills it by mentioning "the white man" coming to the Americas in the second to last episode, and Hiawatha's predictions about the ruination of his people and what he built makes the ending quite bittersweet if not sad.

Otherwise, the rhythm is pleasant, and the stories Longfellow tell are quite entertaining and bear the necessary heroic qualities that make an epic good.
I especially liked how deities, plants and concepts are anthropomorphic, and for example Hiawatha's defeat of Mondamin in a fight means that he successfully subdued corn into a domesticated plant that feeds his people.

It's quite short, so if you have two otherwise boring afternoons or evenings, it's definitely worth a try. The author definitely knew what he was doing.
No. 25297
26 kB, 333 × 499
Reading this book made me think Putin was somewhat right saying that "collapse of Soviet Union was the biggest catastrophe of 20th century".
Not because something good was lost with its collapse, but because policies and decisions made during 80 years of existing of this monstrosity were so illogical, amazingly inconsistent and retarded that it literally programmed dozens of countries, regions, peoples, nations to be poor, corrupted and full of hate towards each other and their very selves. The formal end of central authority in 1988-1991 simply uncovered to the West a part of tragedy we have to survive through
No. 26234
just finished Varoufaki's Adults in the room.