/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

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No. 16419
66 kB, 550 × 550
Old one is kontra.
What are you reading, Ernst?
No. 16438
What do you mean by "actual fiction novels"? Most novels are fiction, it is kinda implied by the genre itself. As for explicit sexual violence, there is William Burroughs (Naked Lunch and Wild Boys; Nova Trilogy might have some too, but I'm not sure). There are also older ones, like de Sade and The Songs of Maldoror by Lautreamont. All in all, sexual violence descriptions mostly belong to fetish porn (duh); few authors can pull it off in an "artsy" kinda way.
No. 16439
159 kB, 300 × 475
pretty, pretty revealing (psychoanalysis stuff aside)
I'm just about finishing it right now but I'm sure I'm going to re-read it later this year
No. 16447
A bit more than 2/3 through the new Houellebecq novel. There were a few entertaining diversions, and the story shaped up a bit more thematically around the dairy farmers' riot.
No. 16454
I'm just reading MLM lit this month.
No. 16465
I'm actually writing a DeSade tier book but I'm going to have to publish it anonymously because I don't want to be known as "that guy who wrote that book".
No. 16484
48 kB, 185 × 284
Finished Infinite Distractions by Dominic Pettman a few days ago.

The main argument is that we are being hypermodulated by social media in that one can spend his attention on a political issue while another reads celebrity gossip or watches fail videos and a few minutes/hours later it's the reverse. So we never spent our attention on the same issue but are being dispersed tho a terror attack e.g. can generate a certain amount of attention for a certain time span. So were are never really synchronized by social media as other theorists pointed out before.
Yet Pettman says we are being synchronized on another level via algorithms and web page templates that control and force a certain way to approach and handle social media and online communication.
No. 16489
Still reading Kudrun. It's pretty good. Not as touching as the Nibelungenlied, and sure as hell not as bloody. (At least so far. The first two parts were pretty tame.)
No. 16575
293 kB, 1333 × 2000
Finished it yesterday.

An enjoyable read for me but I wouldn't recommend it to someone not acquainted with Houellebecq. It felt somewhat unpolished and like it could've used some more editing at first but as one gets to know the protagonist narrator it starts making sense.
Basically the book is a glorified travelogue (mostly through the Normandy) by a male in his mid-40s who has no family, no friends, no relationships, no hobbies except for eating, drinking and smoking (it's a recurring motif of his misery that most of the hotels don't allow smoking anymore). One day he decides to disappear from his Paris flat and cheating Japanese girlfriend, he's well off so he can stay in hotels, travel around and in theory live a decent life. Except what for? He starts taking a novel promising SSRI called "Captorix" due to which he loses his already limping libido and through that the most important aspect of his life: his sexual relationships. This allows him a detached perspective which leads to brutally honest and often absurdly comical observations about himself, the people around him, the meaning of life and other mundanities.
Most people he meets during his aimless wandering, some former lovers and his only friend, a French nobleman who's never turned a profit trying to build up an ecological farming business, are similarly reduced to alcoholism and bitterness (and the protagonist could well be in their place would he not take the antidepressants). The long-winded sentences, full of mundanities, connected by a multitude of commas, perfectly exemplify the rambling thought processes of a person chemically kept from "dying of grief". Something feels wrong about his life, about the world in general but the vague realization is already too much, too overpowering. None of his ideas to turn his life around are realized in the end.
A lot of the ills of modern life are aptly displayed and thematized: the blight of globalized neoliberalism destroying the livelihood of domestic farmers, the commoditization of love leaving many people alone and unhappy at an age when a new beginning is impossible but life is not yet over, leading meaningless lives drowning themselves in alcohol. A whole lot of the novel is taken up by lengthy ruminations of the protagonist about his past lovers, with some of whom he could certainly have led a happy life had he received some better guidance in life.
Overall it's a rather poignant read though plentily interspersed with some of Houellebecq's dark observational humor.

I started J.G. Ballard's The Atrocity Exhibition today, only read the introduction and first chapter so far. It was vaguely unsettling but I imagine it felt much more relevant and shocking at the time it was released in 1970 as it's full of pop references.
No. 16577
38 kB, 326 × 500
Halfway through this book at the moment. This is probably one of the best history books I've ever read. God, what I would give to live a life as eventful and meaningful as the lives of the men Hopkirk describes.
No. 16585
I will purchase this book.
t. Deeply interested in the Great Game
No. 16695
I also just finished Serotonine.
It was definitely the most intense Houellebecq-read I had so far, felt like it had much more depth than the other two novels by him I read so far, Submission and Platform. Also it had the best ending by far. The pages about Proust, Mann and Jesus were terrific. Also it was interesting compared to the quite hedonistic ending in Submission when the protagonist converted to Islam, only to marry underaged girls. Now the protagonist found himself left alone in the bitterness following his promiscuous sex-life, filled with regret. It felt much more honest and existential than the end of Submission.

My next read is going to be The Birds by Tarjei Vesaas. I already know a bit about the plot but I really have no idea what to expect prose-wise, still unusually enough I was looking forward to read this novel for a while so I'll lose no more words and directly get into it after making myself comfortable with some tea in my bed.
No. 16706
233 kB, 800 × 600
141 kB, 525 × 405
Man, I'd love to get a hard copy of the ORs one day. It's not a cheap thing to get, since you'll not even get a preowned set for less than $1000 but it's such an ebin publication. Added together it's a bargain for the amount of print you get (128 volumes with between 1-2k pages per volume) but it is still a lot of dough to drop at once on something I'm only going to even need to consult 3% of but it'd also kind of bother me to have a patchy set on my shelf. In the short term, I'm probably going to get a hard copy of volume IX because it's the most immediately relevant to me and I like working with physical books since I can have it sitting open next to my computer for reference compared to alt+tabbing all the time.

I found a really great correspondence today in it to use as an anecdote of the complexities of logistics in the New Mexico Campaign. Here you have forces having to plan the movement of an entire column of reinforcements around the yearly rains that will fill their reservoirs enough to keep the men with enough water to keep them from dying of thirst until they can reach the Rio Grande (around a two week crossing according to other documents), and then also having to account for the fact that forage is not really that viable in this part of the country compared to greener areas so you have tables being sent laying out the number of mouths to feed that were coming as reinforcements and not just them being laid out as fighting forces. Shit like this is why I love the Civil War in the West.
No. 16720
30 kB, 456 × 673
libgen doesn't have it

btw try picrelated
it's kind of related
No. 16722
>Tarjei Vesaas
never heard of him, but his oevre looks interesting. i'm a big fan of hesse's, however otherwise i'm not very fond of existentialist literature. vesaas' seems to have a couple good novels without going too deep into that stuff. have you read some of his earlier novels?
No. 16748
Nice. I wasn't really feeling it initially, but I'd agree it might have been his most deep or subtle novel, it felt more conceptual than his other works. Though I'd still claim The Elementary Particles is his overall best as it's the most comprehensive.
I was also primed to expect something less excruciating after reading Submission recently. And then I cozied myself up while reading, indulged with food and alcohol, just like the protagonist, so the ending was rather shocking. I'll have to re-read the last pages another time.
No. 16751
86 kB, 600 × 800
Thanks for the suggestion but I've already read it. The Russian cover is ebin.
No. 16761
That looks pretty fucking rad
No. 16787
40 kB, 314 × 475
33 kB, 313 × 475
btw speaking of
>what I would give to live a life as eventful and meaningful as the lives of the men Hopkirk describes.
these aren't about the Great Game but I'm sure you'll enjoy them (don't let the second one deceive you with its title, it's much more than a mere Lawrence's biography)

both the covers are kind of a miss though: the book is pretty academic and neutral
No. 16790
28 kB, 384 × 499
>both the covers are kind of a miss though: the book is pretty academic and neutral
That happens.
Look at this one for example. It looks like some mediocre Wikipedia-regurgitation crash-grab, but it's actually a damn good book on the history of Japanese animation. (Especially how it talks about the methods and goals of the animation industry pre-war, so it doesn't just start off with Tezuka's works)
No. 16793
Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War and Arms and Armour of the Greeks by Snodgrass. The archaeology breaks up the occasional monotony of Thucydides.
No. 16827
Thanks for the suggestions, I will check those books out
No. 16854
136 kB, 1287 × 852
121 kB, 1306 × 873
27 kB, 559 × 820
Out of recreation, I made a rhyming rendition of Ilosvai Selymes Péter's epic-poem about Toldi Miklós.
It's a really mediocre poem from the 1500s about a folk hero. The only reason anybody remembers it is because it served as a source for the much more famous version written by János Arany in the 1840s. So I'd say it's a perfect fit for my mediocre rhyming abilities.
This is probably a very weak rendition, and an incomplete one at that, but to my knowledge it's the only one.
This is the first arch of the story (Basically up until the point where Nicholas redeems himself), which roughly correspond with the contents of the first part of Arany's Toldi trilogy.

I hope it's readable and somewhat enjoyable. It's certainly asn't as monotone as the original.
No. 16888 Kontra
TIL: The 1847 version I mentioned actually has an English translation.
The rendition itself seems pretty faithful to the original, except for leaving out the rhymes.(Supposed to be an AABBCCDD)
But the story in this version is much more coherent and well laid out.
Probably the most well known and renowned Hungarian epic. It has been taught in schools since 1879.
No. 16895
It turned out pretty good I'd say, especially considering it was a spontaneous effort. One criticism I have is that it might be more important to pay attention to the meter. Even if the verses rhyme, if the meter doesn't match it disrupts the flow of the poetry.
No. 16899
Well, I know I neglected the metre.
Re-reading a few of the verses, it really shows, but it turned out well in most of the cases in my (pointless) defence.
Anyway, thanks for reading it at all and giving me feedback.
Getting feedback is usually my biggest issue.
No. 16915
2,4 MB, 369 pages
Generation kill, however I suggest you watch the mini series first.
No. 16930
3,1 MB, 340 pages
Just finished Blindsight by Peter Watts, a so-called hard sci-fi novel about a small crew of differntially enhanced superhumans travelling far into deep space to investigate a possible alien lifeform. I found it a rather tiring read, for one because of the curt, gritty structure which was overly accommodating, for another because of all the technobabble, even if it is thoroughly in accordance with prevailing scientific theories. There's lots of talk about genetics, game theory, neuroscience etc. but I feel like the author is being too cute about dressing everything up in a scientific manner and making the characters lay it all out in a palatable manner.
Also I just don't like the constrained genre fiction narrative structure. I guess there was nothing really bad about it but it did feel like a waste of time to read it. I'd imagine a movie adaptation could be vastly more enjoyable.

No problem. If you decide to re-work it and need more detailed feedback feel free to post again.
No. 16946
I found the Rifters trilogy much more enjoyable to read. Mostly because I could connect with the characters much better than in Blindsight.
No. 16999
Already up to 4€ in late fees to the library. I'm reading as fast as I can, damnit!
No. 17037
You could scan the book in your library or does it not have scanners?
No. 17051
I could just torrent it too, but I prefer reading paper books, that's why the library.
No. 17099
but the money!

I prefer books as well but I wouldn't want to pay a fine.
No. 17129
It's either the fine or buying the book. Which is btw 12 Rules, I've borrowed it since early December and have not finished yet.
No. 17133
47 kB, 350 × 514
Started it recently, a good biography
No. 17219
198 kB, 650 × 822
I finished The Thousand Sons recently so now I'm reading the other side of the coin.

I fucking love the Space Wolves. They dank.
No. 17230
4,0 MB, 640 × 360, 0:51
No. 17232
I fucking love that show, whoever came up with it is a genius.
No. 17248
Are you retarded? Russ is an asshole.
No. 17252
It kind of funny twist when both Wolfs and Sons was tricked - from what it is (and I generaly dislike HH book series as overall presentation) this two books was fery fun read.
No. 17272
Russ is based and redpilled.

My friend recommended me these two as a start even if it's not in chronological order. After these I decided to read the Ahriman novels because I got way to interested in him. After that I'm going to stuck myself in the chronological HH order, starting from the top.

Are you saying the HH books are not all that great?
No. 17273
They have their moments but the majority of the series is meh, made all the worse because it damages the mystery and legend that defined the period for so long. The series is basically things that were for a long time intended to be shrouded in mystery and hearsay of 10,000 years of lost and falsified information. I don't think that all the detail has done the universe as a whole any great service, it just pushed back the boundaries of the unknown in a universe built on legends and things long-forgotten.
No. 17275
Idk the reason why I love the WH40k universe is the knee-deep lore.
No. 17276
There's plenty enough non-heresy lore, and in many cases, the existing lore is improved by the implications of what is not said more than it is by having it all laid out for the reader.
No. 17281
I really just want to stick myself into the HH. The thing is my lore knowledge is rather ass.

Other than that I plan on reading the Gaunt's Ghosts books. Any other recommendations?
No. 17283
I liked the Last Chancers trilogy. Gaunt's Ghosts is probably the better story, but the Dirty Dozen turned all the way past 11 is more entertaining tbh.
No. 17305
745 kB, 3120 × 4160
1,7 MB, 176 pages
Got these bad boys for a ridiculous bargain.
Glossy paper and lots of illustrations, looks and feels very impressive.
I've barely read anything Chinese so far, so I'm looking forward to delving into this classic novel. Have to admit it looks a bit intimidating in terms of length, but I'll presumably have lots of free time soon.

Also I started reading Otaku: Japan's Database Animals by Hiroki Azuma, it's an analysis of otaku culture as a symptom of postmodernity. Highly readable and enlightening so far, and it's short as well, so I'd recommend it to anyone interested in the topic.
No. 17310
>Dream of the Red Chamber at a bargain price
I'm so jealous, man. I really wanted to get a copy of it but I don't have any money for it. A digital one will have to suffice.
And my Hungarian edition is just a translation of the abridged German translation from the 40s.
Also, which translation did you cop? The Yang one or the Hawkes one?

Chinese novels are really something, especially the four great classics (Three Kingdoms, Water Margin, Dream of the Red Chamber, Journey to the West). They are a bit picaresque in a sense, but they are still great.
Though I've only read parts of the Great Four.
I want to read Three Kingdoms this year.
No. 17317
39 kB, 354 × 499
527 kB, 1747 × 2510
Admittedly I spent quite a bit of time researching all the possible translations and editions in German and English and was already about to give up since nothing suitable was turning up, but then I got lucky and found these 3 Yang translation volumes listed separately by the same German online seller which allowed this bargain(~17€ incl. shipping).

I considered just going for a digital version as well, but my limited research only turned up a bad scan of the Yang translation (which from what I gathered is the better one). The next affordable(~30€) would be the 4 volume softback edition which also looks really nice. The recently released non-abridged German edition really cracked me up though. I'd be ashamed of owning it, I don't know what they were thinking when designing it. Then again it seems to be an academic translation so maybe that explains it.

>I want to read Three Kingdoms this year.
Nice, it's even longer from what I've gathered so good luck with that effort.
I'm not much of a sinophile so the Dream of the Red Chamber should probably suffice for now to get a taste of Chinese lit.
No. 17318
1,1 MB
2,3 MB
772 kB
2,1 MB
I have a good epub version of the Hawkes translation if you want it for comparison.
If you don't find Dream of the Red Chamber enjoyable, don't write off all of Chinese literature as bad.
There is a lot of it, both classical and modern that's worthwhile.
Or at least as an amateur sinophile I found it worthwhile.
No. 17319
2,1 MB
5th volume couldn't fit in the last post. This is the last one.

I have a similar edition of Three Kingdoms from the Foreign Language Press. The box is really flimsy, but the quality of the books seems to be okay.

Also, could you elaborate on what arguments you found on why the Yang translation is better? (Is it more literal or has better annotation?)
No. 17320
Thanks for the epubs! I've heard so much praise about it that I'd be very surprised if I end up not liking it.

Truthfully, I haven't researched too deeply into it
Here's what I've gathered from some forum though:

>I think the Yang translation is a solid and workmanslike piece of translation that is a bit laboured in parts because of the difficulty of the material whereas the Hawkes translation has more flair and is much more readable but it feels a bit less reliable.
>Hawkes has done a remarkably good job with translating the poetry however (a nearly impossible job).

And some people on goodreads were also praising the Hawkes translation, so alas I might have been wrong about it.
No. 17325
"Permutation city".
No. 17351
>Thanks for the epubs!
No problem. If you need any of the other big four Chinese novels, just ask. I have all of them in ebook format.
No. 17354
gibsmedats please
No. 17357
21,6 MB, 8 files
21,9 MB, 11 files
851 kB, 2 files
4,8 MB, 2 files
Journey to the West
Three Kingdoms
Water Margin
Plum in the Golden Vase (Jin ping mei)(Though this one isn't part of the Great Four)

I also have Strange Stories From a Chinese Studio and The Complete Fiction of Lu Xun if you want those too.
No. 17394
Do you use an e-book reader? I was thinking about getting one for a long time. Can you just read any kind of PDF on it you find on the internet?
Also I've read that there are e-book readers that have a dictionary function, which I imagine would be great for reading in foreign languages.
No. 17401
Yes, I own an ebook reader. Though it's a really old, no-name model. (I got it when I was 13 or so because I wanted to read Dracula, but nobody sold the book, I originally wanted a Kindle but my father did his usual cheapskate antics and I was left with this one, only for him to ask if my E-reader is kindle or not last year, and when I said no, he asked, "Why?", but that's just me being a needy little bitch.)
I only read short books on it that would be too expensive to get. (Or whatever I can't seem to get my dirty little hands on)
No. 17415
Finally finished reading Kudrun.
The first two parts were fun, the third which had the actual story of Kudrun was overly complicated for an epic like this. It could have easily been partitioned into another 2-3 parts if not for it having the same characters. (Each part tells a story of a generation, descended from Hagen, who isn't the same Hagen as the one in the Nibelungenlied as far as I can gather)

It's heroic and all, but has an overly large cast of characters much to its detriment, none of them are too deep, even for an epic like this, except for maybe "alte Wate" who is like a magician and a warrior who's basically mightier than anyone.

The Hungarian translation gets a bit laboured at times, but is fine otherwise, especially how all the versions I saw in Neuhochdeutsch are non-rhyming. (I only encountered two prose translations, and it's just not fun to read without the verse and the meter)

It's a bit like an antithesis to the Nibelungenlied, because here instead of murdering the fuck out of everyone, they all hold hands and sing cumbaya before going home with their new wives
I'll see how it compares to other medieval epics, but so far this isn't really outstanding.
My current order would be something like:
Nibelungenlied>Song of Roland>Powegap>Kudrun>Powergap>Beowulf

I'm going to read Shostakovich's Testimony next. Already read like 30-40 pages out of it just randomly flipping it open, and it's really fucking good. It's like listening to the stories of a grandpa I never had.
No. 17417
134 kB
Yesterday I read Faserland by Christian Kracht, it was really enjoyable. It's a rather short novel about an affluent young man without any discernible interests, except for maybe fashionable clothes, constantly drinking and smoking while traveling from the north of Germany to Zurich. On his way he meets other high society people, some of whom he considers friends, but all the relationships are somehow vapid, and beyond the joviality of the various descriptions a profound sadness and emptiness shines through, particularly towards the end. The writing style is very colloquial and authentic, providing lots of hilarious descriptions of the different cities and their somewhat stereotypical inhabitants. It's somewhat reminiscent of Bret Easton Ellis, but thoroughly well adapted to German idiosyncrasies.

Get one. I just got myself a Kindle recently and it's great. I don't know why I held out so long without getting one.
You can just pick it up and read a bit without having the struggle of opening the book, setting the bookmark etc. And the dictionary/wiki and highlighting functions are also extremely useful. Battery holds for an eternity and the display doesn't strain the eyes at all.
With the Kindle you can read either PDFs or MOBI, but in any case you should just get calibre to manage and convert your ebooks.
No. 17428

A few days ago I opened the book here and there and read a few paragraphs.Hanuta and Nazi Germany
I'm not an expert but this stuff goes under Popliteratur and has been written a lot from the 1960s-early 2000s. It's still written ofc, a mix between journalistic style and fiction, often witty and amusing. A lot of the authors are also journalists or write/wrote for newspapers. The magazine Tempo from the mid 1980s-1990s is known for this style and many of their writers also write such books and later went to the big newspapers like ZEIT, taz, FAZ and Süddeutsche. In a retrospection after the magazine died, it was called a Talentschmiede.

I just read the first chapter of Gerade Eben Jetzt by T. Schumacher which is a scholarly book about that genre, dealing with the category of the contemporary these books unfold.
No. 17534
653 kB, 3022 × 1105
I don’t remember when, if, ever I laughed out loud reading a book.
Even if Testimony is a forgery, it’s a damn good read.
No. 17602
No, The Birds was my first novel ever by Vesaas. Generally his books aren't easy to come across, I payed 24EUR for this one but it was quite worth it. It was a really fascinating read, very unusual stuff. The main protagonist Mattis is what one would call an autist and a metaphora for the artist. He has an almost biblical speech, to him word and meaning is the same and his only way to describe or make sense out of the world around him is throughout poetry, which he does more or less unconsciously. He finds beauty where the "intelligent and strong" people from his village (he calls them like that because they're able to think faster and in pragmatic ways, also have real jobs) don't see anything, for example the mating flight of a woodcock (and its later dead, sort of induced by himself) has a great meaning to him. Whenever he tries to do any work, his mind doesn't want to and let him fuck things up so he's used that his sister earns the money. The novel's language is really wild, associative and formalistic, sort of representing Mattis worldview. It is a really melancholic and dramatic piece of work but there's also a lot of humour on it. Also there is tripping on amanita muscaria in it.
There'd be much more to tell about this novel but I'm missing the time right now. Would definitely recommend it, you won't regret for sure.
No. 17753
8,0 MB, 349 pages
Finally finished reading Testimony.
It's a fantastic book.
It has a fair few funny passages, rich anecdotes and tragic tales.
Well, most people don't consider it an accurate source of information, and it had tons of debates and books written on it, but I'd say even if it's not "valuable" as a source, it's still worth it for the entertainment value you get out of reading small Russian anecdotes, jokes and stories.
It has some pretty good banter. The scene story in which Shostakovich and Khachaturian embark upon writing a Soviet anthem together is both chilling and laughter inducing at the same time.

I'm going to read Mo Yan's Red Sorghum now.
No. 17755
Most professionals don't consider the ancient sources to be an accurate source of information but you can bet your butthole that they're still considered extremely valuable and in some cases, an identified inaccuracy can turn out to be a source in itself. Don't fall into the accuracy=value trap.
No. 17766
37 kB, 600 × 800
Yesterday I finished Heeresbericht by Edlef Köppen. It's one of the many WW1 novels from Germany.

It's the best I've read, better than Ernst Jünger and Erich Maria Remarque. Honestly, it blows All Quiet on the Western Front out of the water, no doubts. It works with expressionist aesthetics. Really the most versatile novel without a drift into kitsch like Jünger or Remarques the protagonists reflection on the Lost Generation are not really deep
No. 17770
I wouldn't consider Remarque's book to be exceptionally good, even compared to Jünger's work.
It's not bad, but besides shocking the reader, it's pretty average. (At least, it shocked me quite a bit when I read it.)
No. 17778
Yeah, it is shocking indeed. The rest is really not good. But Jünger is just boring besides some nice vitalistic moments and aestheticizations of war phenomenon like the sky over the front lines etc.

Köppen is a Montageroman, that has cites newspapers, chancelors, Kaiser Wilhlem, adverts and so on, but also has a plot. The protagonist is not infantry but artillery which was a refreshing perspective after 4 novels with infantry. An as mentioned it is the most versatile when it comes to aesthetics and also narration techniques.
No. 17785
>The protagonist is not infantry but artillery which was a refreshing perspective after 4 novels with infantry
That's good to hear. Even after two books like this, I've felt like I was reading a different adaptation of the same story. (Not to say this isn't to be expected when both are supposed to be diaries/writings about one's experiences.)
I remember I even made a list of what topics Jünger and Remarque share in their books.
No. 17792
War novels from WW1 will share a lot of motives. So does Heeresbericht, but it also does it different in many ways, motives are not depicted alike and that is just one thing.
No. 17817
So I started reading Red Sorghum.
Someone who writes
>the little pink asshole of my grandmother
in the first 10 pages of his book can't be a good man.

I'm going to read it, but I'm a lot less enthusiastic now.
No. 17819
7,2 MB, 392 pages
7 kB, 529 × 180
Now that I have more time, I'm going to finish reading Computation and Human Experience by Philip Agre after I put it on hiatus for a while. It's basically a text book that tries to bridge the gap between philosophical and technical approaches in AI. Seems quite interesting from a theoretical perspective despite being a bit older.

Also read another chapter of the Iliad, and shit is really starting to go down, gory details galore.


Reminds me of the first sentence from Ryu Murakami's Coin Locker Babies
No. 17821
Ryu Murakami is the other edgy Asian writer.
His In the miso soup almost had me vomit at one point.
No. 17826
>His In the miso soup almost had me vomit at one point.
Really, at what point (if it doesn't trigger you too much to remember)?
It's actually one of my favorite books of his (next to Almost Transparent Blue), one of the few books I ever read twice. In my memory it's rather tame, at least in comparison with Coin Locker Babies or Audition.
No. 17827
I remember exactly where. That utterly disgusting and revolting part was when Frank commits a murder on screen in front of Kenji. The vivid descriptions of the blood and the broken and torn necks made me dizzy a bit. Especially how it transforms into this violent madness from a deplorable club scene where the only motivating force is money and nothing is genuine.
I think I had Murakami's intended reaction. I was shocked.
No. 17828
Read Iliad not so long ago. It was unexpectedly good. Sure, those duel episodes can be kinda boring sometimes, but the poem as a whole left a very nice impression, especially the ending. And I giggled a little when warriors try to take the armor off the enemies they defeated right in the middle of a fight, because it reminded me how in hack 'n' slash games I often ignore monsters around me and start collecting the loot.
No. 17829
Ah yes, totally forgot this scene but now I remember it vividly. IIRC it also happens very suddenly which adds to the shock value. Almost want to reread it now, but sadly I gave away my paperback to someone who probably didn't even open it.

Nice. It's definitely somewhat long-winded and takes some getting into the language but I agree it's surprisingly fun as well.
No. 17831
>takes some getting into the language
It depends on the translator, I guess. For example, there are two most known translations of the Iliad into Russian: Gnedich's and Veresayev's. The former is older and uses a lot of archaic words (archaic even for the period when the translation was done, that is, early XIX century), the latter is more "modernized" and doesn't shies away from crude and swearing words (Gnedich used much tamer expressions than original, possibly because the audience back then wouldn't take kindly to swearing). I've read Veresayev's translation, because I had checked some passages from Gnedich's and had decided that the prospect of constantly looking up unfamiliar words despite reading the poem in Russian wasn't very attractive to me.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that you could check out if there are different versions and pick the one that is more accessible. Unless, of course, you are being a total badass and reading the original.
No. 17837
229 kB
I read it in ebook format.
I have no intention of re-reading it, or reading anything by Murakami again.
No. 17857
If anyone is interested in the Iliad but not a fan of poetry, I highly recommend John Dolan's The War Nerd Iliad. It's an adaptation of the story into modern colloquial English, executed very well. It conveys the emotion of the story superbly, and also acts as a window into preclassical Greek thought and culture (I suppose the poem would as well, but this is the version for people who don't like poetry).

The tone gets didactic in a few brief places, which I wasn't fond of, but other than that it's perfect for what it is. The description of Achilles' shield especially stands out - though entirely in prose, it felt more poetic to me than any actual poem I've read in the English language. For that part alone, I think its worth reading if only to see what can be done with prose in the English language.
No. 17859
>It depends on the translator, I guess.
For sure. Maybe I'll go for some more contemporary translation another time, but right now I'm reading the classic German translation by Johann Heinrich Voß from the 18th century, as I've got a nice print edition I got for cheap. I think it's still intelligible enough, and actually I don't mind picking up some archaic vocabulary.

>Unless, of course, you are being a total badass and reading the original.
Unfortunately this is a level of badassery beyond my reach.

Thanks, but I really want to reread the German translation as it's what I've read before. I actually met the friend whom I gave it to yesterday and he told me out of the blue that he still has a paperback from me called "In the Miso Something" and he's planning to return it to me. Rather strange coincidence, but no point mulling over it I guess.
No. 17943
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So I sat down and read Pushkin's poem Ruslan and Ludmila.
It's great.
Nothing overly serious, just a nice little fairy tale with dragons, wizards and a talking head, set in the steppe. It's really relaxing and magical. It's a worthy compensation after the disappointment that the Song of Igor's Campaign was, to which it alludes to on multiple occasions.

I remember liking Yevgeniy Onegin more (It's called Eugene Onegin in English which I find disgusting for some reason.), though that's ought to be re-read again.

Pushkin is a great author, even in translation. I like his works.
No. 17944
352 kB, 1024 × 1267
No. 17946
>Such a letter
This why I think
Romanticism > Alle
No. 17956
10 kB, 480 × 360
Can someone post the pdfs of the books being discussed here? Please?
No. 17963
1,3 MB
347 kB
You can find two translations of Ruslan and Ludmila into English at the bottom of its wiki page.
Eugene Onegin is a whole other ordeal. I haven't the slightest idea which translation to use.
But here, have two versions. The latter one even keeps the stanza of the original.
If you need books, just use b-ok.org or library genesis ( )
No. 17972
279 kB
>Modern editions have prose translations
>There is a perfectly fine rhyming verse translation out there
Why do the English do this?
No. 17973
have read it in japanese translation years ago. was really informative.
now its second-hands sold on amazon ridiculously high price.
No. 18064
Finished Christiane F. – We Children from Bahnhof Zoo

It's written by two men and based on interviews with Christiane F. a teen heroin junky from the 1970s in West Berlin.
I read it because I wanted to get a feel for a 1970s mentality, the bad sides of the BRD federal republic Germany, but there is not so much to find more ORDNUNG than today, that's for sure. Otherwise it's quite surreal when you think about all the young teenagers from 12-18 who did heroin and died. Teen prostitution and all that is featured in the story. I often was bugged by the wordy paragraphs, not sure it is because it's a teenagers mindset conveyed as well or because it translates the annoying drug scene habits even better.
No. 18087
Does anyone know of good memoirs of WW2 written by generals or other high-ranking officers not from the USA or Britain, but available in English? I'm especially interested in ones by German officers.
No. 18094
Anglophones are not a poetic people. We love our verse in song but scorn it unadorned (considering the title of the Nibelungenlied, I imagine the original audience of the poem was similar). It doesn't help that most poetry in English is garbage*, especially the well-lauded stuff, or that the language is awkward and ugly. I can listen to a poem in Russian and, without understanding it, appreciate its aesthetic qualities. Except for a very few rare accents, English either sounds gay or like Dutch, so we need music to make our verse sound good. However, I think the sound and cadence of English lends itself especially well to musical accompaniment, so I don't see why we'd want to waste our time with unadorned verse anyway. The speakers of a language should play to their strengths.

*In the second stanza already, the translator tries to rhyme "fair" with "were", and tacks an extra syllable onto "doomed". Even if you tolerate the second kind of poetic license (I don't; if you need to butcher the language by tacking on non-existent syllables, you need to become a better poet), you just can't rhyme words that don't rhyme.
No. 18096
Come to think of it, it's better to say that modern Anglophone culture has simply reverted to a more primitive attitude towards poetry. The Iliad and the original Nibelungenlied (which would lead to the MHG and Old Norse poems) come out of cultures where poetry was popular entertainment, performed to live audiences and accompanied by music. Add sound recording into the mix, and that describes modern America as well as Iron Age Greece or Migration Period northern Europe. Homer would have been baffled by people reading his poems, in silence, alone in their room.
No. 18098
>*In the second stanza already, the translator tries to rhyme "fair" with "were"
Well, that wholly depends on dialect/accent if fair and were rhyme or not. In my opinion that rhymes.

Of course English doesn't always lend itself to poetry well, I don't want to dispute that, but even this kind of poetry is miles better than the travesty that is a prose translation.
No. 18109
Not him but I think that most poetry is ultimately untranslateable. I mean forgetting all modern lack of understanding of contemporary themes and such, it just simply doesn't work that way and you ulstimately have to completely torture the language to make it similar, and a direct translation simply isn't poetry. This is also one of those things that's a damned shame about the Quran, because no non-Arabic speaker is ever going to fully get it.

It strongly depends on the poet. Algernon Swinburne was an amazing poet. The problem is whatever horrible thing happened in the 50s where our poetry truly became fucking garbage. Allen Ginsburg is absolute trash for example, and even modern slam poetry in the 00s for example is basically complete shit like 99% of the time. People are under the impression you don't have to rhyme or even have any sense of cadence or rhythm anymore and these fuckers call it "poetry" which is just an example of the complete degradation of high culture along with say visual art. All our art is in different mediums mainly controlled by the recording and publishing industries and Hollywood and the people that control those industries, as well as vidya.
No. 18140
>Well, that wholly depends on dialect/accent if fair and were rhyme or not.
No it doesn't. I don't know of any dialect or accent where those two words rhyme. My own dialect actually has the most pre-rhotic vowel mergers of any major dialect of English, and those are still distinct sounds for me.
If your line only rhymes in some obscure paleo-Northumbrian dialect that was already moribund in the early 20th century, it doesn't count.

>but even this kind of poetry is miles better than the travesty that is a prose translation.
I've enjoyed several prose adaptations of foreign epics. There's a passable version of the Shahnameh that I'm working through, and the aforementioned War Nerd Iliad which is absolutely excellent.

Adapting a foreign work of art sometimes requires a shift of medium if the original medium doesn't have any valency in the target culture. In a sense, this can make the adaptation more faithful than one which strictly adheres to the form of the original, because the work can be digested by the target audience as easily and enjoyably as the original work of art was digested by its original audience.

For example, the Iliad. Raw poetry is not a current medium in the English language - it lives on today only among a small incestual clique of poetry nerds. Raw poetry just doesn't click with the average American, and I believe this extends to most other Anglophone cultures too. I've tried several times to get into long epic poems, and it just doesn't do it for me - this despite having a great deal of interest in the cultures that produced these poems. I've never met another American who just reads long poems for fun, and I'm not talking about 89iq bydlo. We like narrative prose, and we like musical poetry, but raw narrative poetry is alien to us (I'm sure you have media formats that you just can't get into).

It wasn't until I read the War Nerd Iliad that I was able to properly appreciate Homer. You should really check out the free sample of the book that you can find on Amazon. The author is a poet himself, and an academic expert on English poetry, but chose to do the adaptation in prose because of the issue that I'm talking about. All of the emotion and drama and comedy of the original is preserved, and in fact for me it's enhanced - I've looked at the best parts of the Iliad in poetic translation, and it just doesn't convey the feelings that it's supposed to. Poetry just doesn't do it for me as well as artful prose.
No. 18325
Read some "award-winning stories" by Harlan Ellison. Now I kinda get why the dude himself hated being called a "science fiction writer". His stories are all over the place: there is some urban fantasy, surreal, allegorical and symbolic stuff, noir-ish and mystery-ish pieces. My impressions of them were all over the place as well.

There are some stories that I have no idea why got their awards. Like "The Human Operators", which is basically his earlier "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream", but not nearly as nerve-racking (or should I say, "wracking"?) and with a crappy Adam-and-Eve happy ending to boot. Or "'Repent, Harlequin!' Said the Ticktockman", which I guess is supposed to be about the possibility of turning the law, which is created in order to provide security for society, into an instrument of oppression, but I can't help but think that Ellison simply was late all the time, was reprimanded for it often, got butthurt about it and wrote a "scathing satire" short story because of that. Not to mention that the nature of oppression was explored much more thoroughly by other authors, like Orwell (who, ironically, was mentioned in "Repent, Harlequin..."), so Ellison's contribution to the topic's discussion is insignificant.

There are some stories that are simply not relatable to me, like "Djinn, No Chaser", which is about overcoming the obstacles of married life, or "Croatoan", which is about taking responsibility in the form of fatherhood. I wouldn't call them bad per se, it's just that they are about the things that don't interest me, so they don't resonate with me at all.

And finally, there are stories that I simply didn't get. I have no idea what did he mean by "Eidolons" and "The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore", and I'm not even sure if he did mean anything, because they sure look like products of purposeless literary experimentation. "Adrift Just Off the Islets of Langerhans..." is a mish-mash of cultural references (lots of them just flew over my head: I'm embarassed to say that I haven't seen the classic Wolf Man movies with Lon Chaney Jr.; and the name "Victor" is way too common to associate it with doctor Frankenstein specifically) which probably convey some message, but I am not able do decipher it.

Not to finish on a negative note, there are stories that I definitely liked. "With Virgil Oddum at the East Pole" was very inspirational and uplifting. I liked the adaptation of "A Boy and His Dog", and the original story didn't disappoint me either. But my favorite was "Jeffty is Five". Despite (or maybe because?) of being a cynical bastard, I value works that are capable of moving me to tears very highly. Usually my only reaction to authors' attempts to evoke sympathy is an indifferent smirk, but sometimes I stumble upon such great stories as Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men" or Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon" that manage to press just the right buttons inside me. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that "Jeffty is Five" is one of these stories.

Overall, it was a fairly enjoyable read, and I wouldn't feel bad about recommending it to fellow Ernsts, if they haven't got to Ellison already.
No. 18328
He did the screenwriting for the I have no mouth and I must scream videogame too. The short story itself is pretty meh, but if you can, watch a longplay of the game, because it's pretty damn good as a "movie".
Otherwise I only know him from talking mean shit on TV. What a lad.
No. 18330
I am thinking of playing that game myself for a long time already, because watching other people play it breaks the immersion, but I'm just not very big on point 'n' click adventures. Maybe someday I will overcome my aversion and actually do it.
No. 18332
That's why I said watch it. It's like a movie, only a bit longer.
No. 18334
btw if you really want to play it, I have a GOG exe of it.
No. 18336
Thanks, but I already have it installed. Someday, when I'll have one of my gaming impotence fits, I'll be sure to give it a try.
No. 18372
I read books and stuff
No. 18387
I'm reading through the memoirs of Albert Kesselring. Of course there's lots of ass-covering and curious omissions in a post-WW2 memoir by a major German commander, but reading between the lines is half the fun. The level of frustration that he had with the Italians, and the utter shamelessness of the Italians as they repeatedly fail and then betray their allies, is quite amusing.

I'm going to make a point of reading more war memoirs after this. One from the Japanese perspective would be very interesting.

>But my favorite was "Jeffty is Five". Despite (or maybe because?) of being a cynical bastard, I value works that are capable of moving me to tears very highly.
I suggest "Foster, You're Dead" by Philip K Dick. It's a quick short story, but very poignant. It's one of my favorites for that reason.
No. 18396
Thing you need to understand about the Italians is that Italy was Fascist but the majority of Italians were not. Most of the soldiers were Royalists and/or Catholics and answered either to the King or the Pope. Mussolini never managed to indocrinate the entire country like Hitler did. Germans thus had the fanaticism to put up with a lot of shit while the Italian army didn't really give a shit about Mussolini's grand experiment.

In spite of that, the Italians did have their moments (CSIR in summer of '41, Ariete Division, Enfidaville) but often suffered from both Mussolini's megalomania overruling his capable but non-sycophantic generals like Messe, and the fact that the Germans expected the world of an underdeveloped secondary power who both mentally and in materiel was not ready for war when it came. The army had potential though. They had a different way of operating on a section level to many contemporary forces and it enabled high mobility and tactical flexibility by keeping support weapons as a second fireteam that could be directed in support of mobile infantry from its own base of fire position that was independent of the rifle teams. This was limited by the fact that their support weapons were garbage and they never achieved mass production of the newest version of their service rifle which was very forward thinking in terms of what the role of an infantryman was (it forwent features meant for extreme range combat which were common on other rifles in order to make it more potent at medium/short ranges where fighting was really taking place).

Their air force was well-equipped though and their navy was one of the most modern in Europe (albeit relegated to fleet-in-being). The Macchi C.205 was just plain one of the best fighters of the war, with its predecessor, the C.202 being also pretty good. Other late-war models like the G.55 and Re.2005 were also brilliant but were Italian and thus couldn't be produced in any great number.
t. appreciator of the Italian military
No. 18430
I started reading The Golden Ass by Apuleius. So far it's really wild and crazy fun, even though the translator August Rode, who lived in the late 18th and early 19th century, seems to have tried way to hard to intellectualize the dialogue (sometimes that makes it even more fun to read). In this book two witches turn the protagonist into a turtle and take a piss on him after beating him up and the passages where he gets transformed into an actual ass is hilarious as well but still very captivating. Are there more works about people turning into animals besides the obvious work by Kafka?

Also as I did get high yesterday and today but still wanted to do some light reading I also started Diesseits des Van-Allen-Gürtels by Wolfgang Herrndorf. Really weird and disturbing, much different from the two novels I read by him. Maybe I'll write a bit more about this author after sobering out and reading more of the book's stories. What I can already say though is that once again I feel like Herrndorf's Prose is reaching out into really dark corners of our lifes which I find to be quite scary sometimes. Even more so as most critics described it as pure pop-literature without anything beneath it, but I didn't get this impression at all. Also he captures the pure fear you feel having the realization that you're probably mentally ill.
No. 18433
Well both sound so good I want to read them now. I'm telling me everyday I will work on my papers a few hours a day, everyday. So far I read stuff that is interesting to me. Wanted to check out the antiquarian for a Ballard novel, probably now Herrndorf and Apelius, since I never read such old books.

I shouldn't spent any money right because of reasons. I just found out a used Herrndorf novel is 5€ on the internet, but even that is a nono now, will probably go the the antiquarian tho. And I've seen a Tschick book by Herrndorf at my parents home I think.

Where did you get the Apelius, I only find expensive and more or less shit expensive ones.
No. 18439 Kontra
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It is good, it’s just that the British Film Institute decided to give it a “shit” cover. It’s really factual and unweebly in its approach.
But oh well, if you must shitpost.
No. 18440
A lot better than your sole 4kreb contribution tbh

This is the literature thread, not shitpostong thread
No. 18442 Kontra
I still don't understand if it's a language error in my brain or something else but the word "weeb" disgusts me so much. I think it's derogatory, humiliating and as obnoxious as 90% of modern anime "fans" who say they like anime after watching a couple of "weeb" youtube videos and reading ddlc.
Am I taking it too seriously? Sorry for the offtopic.
No. 18444
Meh, it's not a big deal. It's as if someone called me a nerd or a geek with the intention to offend: I cannot come up with any other reaction than "well, duh".

t. 350+ animu titles weeb
No. 18450
My first Herrndorf novel was Tschick which is a good one but it feels lighter than what he usually wrote. I'd still recommend it as it's a good intro into his work I guess. It's also a very fast and quick read. Right afterwards I've read Bilder deiner großen Liebe which is a fragmentaric novel focussing on one of the side-characters in Tschick, the mentally ill teenage girl Isa. It's already much darker and more disturbing than Tschick (which is a fun Roadmovie-Bildungsroman), you feel while reading that Herrndorf was getting close to the end. I can't say a lot about the other big novels yet, Sand and In Plüschgewittern but I definitely want to read them at some point.

I own Apuleius, Der Goldene Esel from Goldmann Verlag published in 1961. You can find lots of cheap and nice copies on zvab.

No. 18454
Started reading some of Robert W. Chambers' other short story collections. They're fine. They don't capture me like The King in Yellow though. The peaks of cryptic and mildly unsettling weirdness in that book just creates a far more interesting read than what amounts to symbolist/art nouveau short stories. The titular story of the one I'm currently reading 'The Maker of Moons' is interesting but it's just not as impactful as The Repairer of Reputations. The rest is as I said, fine but also not really my thing.
No. 18457
Alright. I will look out for these books at the antiquarian before I order something online. Will keep me from buying to much books that collide with my limited time at the moment.
No. 18470
Haven't heard of this Herrndorf before, besides being vaguely aware of the Tschick movie. So I ended up reading about him a bit (there's some German in memoriam website about him*), and damn he had a quite tragic life story. Will definitely put some of his books on my reading list, I'm always glad to stumble upon some interesting contemporary German author.

No. 18471 Kontra
Btw, especially for the German Ernsts who want to buy used books online I recommend trying https://www.eurobuch.com/
It's a metasearch engine which crawls through amazon, booklooker, abebooks etc. and it works surprisingly well
If you scroll down on the page there are some off-shoots for other countries as well but I can't vouch how well they work.

Medimops can also be pretty good, as they have a decent selection & prices, though often not the cheapest. But they also offer free shipping over 10€ which can lead to some good deals if you're looking for multiple books.
No. 18744
So, after seeing Ernst rave about Houellebecq, I decided to read one of his novels.
My choice landed on Whatever (Or, The Extension of the Domain of Struggle if we want the translation to be literal.)

It's a great book. A great novel. It manages to grasp the zeitgeist really well. Or, at least the zeitgeist for a particular strata of people that now exist, and the eyes of the mainstream has recently landed on. (Of course, I'm talking about the incels.)
Very interesting to see how Houellebecq noticed the issue 30 or so years ahead, and wrote about it. It's a pioneering work in a sense.

The story itself isn't really all that important, it serves as an anecdotal supporting structure to the inserted essays and ideas. The book itself hinges on two particular sentences, which define the plot itself
>Economical liberalism means extending the domain of struggle to all ages and genders.
>Similarly: Sexual liberalism means extending the domain of struggle to all ages and genders.
It's especially interesting how at the end he sketches up this duality between these two systems (Economic life, dubbed "the Mars-system", and sexual life, dubbed "the Venus-system") and how success in one won't necessarily mean success in the other. (As in, you can make good money, but that won't necessarily lead to an interesting sex-life, and vice versa.)

Sometimes it felt like reading an elaborate imageboard post from 4-5 years ago. (Especially how the Hungarian version in some cases accidentally coincides with Hungarian chanspeak.)
I don't know what my verdict would be if I were to read it as someone unfamiliar with chans.

It's less than 200 pages, has some relatively well written prose that manages to be elegant despite the subject matter being masturbation and fucking (though sexual intercourse in itself isn't always necessarily the topic, same goes for self-pleasuring.) and most importantly it's relevant to our times.
I'd recommend it. It's really good. I had fun with it.

I also read Crime and Punishment the day beforeI'm going to give my thoughts on that one in a separate post.If ever.
No. 18790
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Thank you!
No. 18801
Thanks, your descripted has me intrigued, will give it a shot.
No. 18805 Kontra
No. 18845
So I returned the book finally and paid 6€ of late fees. Didn't finish it either. The library sent a threatening letter saying the will forward the case to a collection agency if I don't return the book ASAP. Now number 230 on the waiting list, might as well buy the book...
No. 18852
Jordan Memerson is overrated, anyways.
No. 18853
Glad you liked it, I remember I didn't like it at all at the time I read it. Though it's been a few years ago that I read Die Ausweitung der Kampfzone. Just before that I had read Faldbakken's Scandinavian Misanthropy Trilogy so I was kind of sick of all the sex and violence stuff and lumped it in with that without thinking more about it.
I'd have to reread it sometime, but I'd still say The Elementary Particles is Houellebecq's chef d'oeuvre, it's roughly the same theme of the ruinous effects of liberalized sexuality, but developed further through multiple characters' perspectives towards a more epic ending.

Every time someone doesn't finish 12 Rules Jordan Peterson strangles a baby kitten. Please clean your room at least, so the kitty soul can go to meowy heaven!
No. 18856
I don't plan on reading more Houellebecq for now. It was interesting, but if he just keeps elaborating on this theme, then I'm not going to delve too deep into his oeuvre.

>Every time someone doesn't finish 12 Rules Jordan Peterson strangles a baby kitten.
The thing is, I think what Jordan Peterson and Marie Kondo preaches (Order, discipline, cleanliness, responsibility) should be self evident by the time you reach adulthood.
We live in a society :^) and this tells a lot about the society we live in, in my humble opinion.
No. 18878
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No. 18880 Kontra
No. 18894
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The Autobiography of Yukichi Fukuzawa

Its fascinating, especially if you're interested in modern Japanese history. He visited Europe and the United States several times in his life and its interesting to see how it altered his views on Japan. He was also one of the first Japanese who wasn't a castaway to learn the English language.

also a cool little fact it that he is on the most valuable Japanese banknote and Benjamin Franklin who is on the most valuable American banknote also wrote an extremely famous autobiography
No. 18923
Read The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket by Edgar Allan Poe. Well, it's definitely not one of his finest works. It is either a tribute to or a parody of tales about seafaring, so it includes several elements associated with it, like mutiny on a ship, surviving a shipwreck by means of cannibalism and confrontations with savages. While I don't think that these elements had already become clichés back when the book was written, their usage in the text still leaves a lot to be desired. The narration is ragged, the characters recover from their ordeals way too fast, and said ordeals come in so rapid of a succession, that they would more easily befit some Kafka's story rather than a more or less serious adventure (or at least serious about being an adventure) tale.

The lengthy digressions containing the explanations of science, technology and history do not contribute to the smoothness of the narration's flow either. Poe engaged in this often in some of his short stories, but it felt more appropriate there, because these stories were pretty much dedicated to these explanations. In this book, however, the nascent interest in the plot simply gets killed by boring passages recollecting the history of antarctic explorations, describing ship's interior structure, or talking about sea cucumbers.

I gotta say that the ending (or, rather, the absence of one) mitigated my negative opinion a little, simply due to how weird it was, but not to the point of redeeming the book as a whole in my eyes. To be fair, it's pretty evident that long prose isn't exactly Poe's specialty and he feels much more comfortable with his short stories, which are undeniably great.
No. 18926
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So I'm roughly halfway through Shestov's The Philosophy of Tragedy - Dostoevsky and Nietzsche, and I think it's a really good book.
What struck me as strange that it's really down to earth and understandable, while not lacking in content.
Though an actual knowledge on Dostoevsky's, Tolstoy's and Nietzsche's works is somewhat necessary if you want to enjoy the work to its fullest. That is, it's necessary for you to have read a few of their books. (Notes from the Underground, Notes from the House of the Dead, Crime and Punishment, War and Peace, The Karamazov Brothers, Thus Spake Zarathustra and so on. Though if Shestov states something, he backs it up with a quote from the given work, and then a commentary on the context of the given quote.

It's a fine work so far. I'd definitely recommend it, though in the first half he talks more about Tolstoy than Nietzsche, but I guess he leaves that for the second half of the book.
Thanks to it, I could finally see the reason behind Svidrigailov's character. It's insightful, short, and cuts straight to the point.
No. 18929
It's breddy gud. Lots of well designed figures and diagrams as well as lucid explanations of modern and historical molecular biology techniques.
No. 18940
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I'm pretty much depressed and tired in the evening. No motivation to read difficult texts then. But I don't have enough money to order a copy of Tausend Deutsche Diskotheken, 10€ for a book will be too much until I get my paycheck in mid march.
So, does any German Ernst know if there do exist places that could provide me with a copy?
It's funny, BRD Noir came out in 2016 as a dialog about the BRD as literary genre and now this book might be inspired by it, just like this Fritz Honka movie. They both cover topics that are mentioned in the BRD Noir book. I like the idea of the BRD being a complete different country to what is now, that's why my bachelor thesis will deal with it.
No. 18944
Can't you just borrow it from a library?
No. 18945
Uni library does not have it, I could suggest it, but would take a few weeks before I can read it, by then it's probably mid march.

Don't have a card for the public one, need to check if they have it anyway
No. 18947
218 kB, 411 × 500, 0:01
Have you tried going to old pawnbroker lady for money?
No. 18956
I could sell something on ebay.kleinanzeigen, but nothing that is sought-after besides music electronic I don't want to sell.

An introduction to film theory is still lying around here, borrowed from the uni library. I will just read that without trying to understand what I don't understand.
No. 19176
1,4 MB, 2560 × 1920
>Every time someone doesn't finish 12 Rules Jordan Peterson strangles a baby kitten. Please clean your room at least, so the kitty soul can go to meowy heaven!
Ha :D My room is clean no worries. I got to rule 8 and will continue once there's a free copy at the library. Also took the rule of not lying to heart, now I try to speak the truth and not resort to white lies like usual.

Today my book order from Amazon arrived: A gift edition of Watership Down and Tales From WD, both in English. Does Ernst read their books in original language?
No. 19288
Motel Architecture a short story by Ballard which was quite good, reading him in English is better. Have Runnung Wild and Concrete Island borrowed and waiting to be opened in the near future.

During this morning I had an encounter with the short <15 pages but famous essay Against Interpretation by Susan Sontag.

From Wikipedia
>she claims that interpretation can be “stifling”, making art comfortable and “manageable” and thus degrading the artist’s original intention, Sontag equally presents a solution to the dilemma she sees as an abundance of interpretation on content. That is, to approach art works with a strong emphasis on form, to “reveal the sensuous surface of art without mucking about in it.”

Indeed the intellects mode of interpretation is based on the metaphysical assumption that there is more, a beyond the artwork, a secret meaning or secret meanings that need to be unveiled by the intellectual mode of interpretation, a production of meaning even.

It's from the 1960s I think and kinda groundbreaking for these days because these days form is very important, the content is nothing special and I tend to value form as better attribute to answer why something is art.
So if you are interested in arts and especially literature it's an important read that should not be dismissed if it was unknown to you up until now, given that it's short, it's a no brainer. I would especially advice it to the young Hungarian, since I think it's not taught in school and yet an important position to consider or know about when you deal with literature + it's not difficult to read.

So instead of quoting the last sentence of her essay it will be the one before that:
>The function of criticism should be to show how it is what it is* , even that it is what it is , rather than to show what it means .

the last sentence would be: In place of hermeneutics we need an erotics of art
No. 19389
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>Against Interpretation by Susan Sontag
Sontag's insistance that art requires no defense, ironically reminded me of Percy Shelley's A Defense of Poetry. Shelley, like Sontag, understood that there was value in the experience of art. In its explicit form art serves its purpose and it doesn't have to be picked apart to justify our appreciation of it. A great essay, thanks for posting about it.
No. 19482
Read Running Wild by J.G. Ballard. A short novella about a massacre in a gated community. Since I have seen some Youtube Interviews with him, the statements and topos was too obvious and perhaps good back then but a bit flat for todays standard even tho the topic is not a cold one tbh but one might pack it differently today I could imagine. Well, it's a novella and therefore not overly complex. Kinda neat how the last pages resemble a typical flashy TV documentary narration about murder/killings, while it's indirectly critiqued in the beginning.
No. 19553
Got my hands on a Wolfgang Herrndorf novel In Plüschgewittern as I had some time in between eating and an appointment in uni today. Finished it already. Easy to read and it reminded me of the weirdness and absurdity of peoples life. Or wanting something but never know what and so life passes by on its way.
No. 19554
Is that supposed to be a reference to Jünger's In Stahlgewittern?
No. 19556
Now that you say it, it could really be. It's a different war then, an inner one, a daily struggle.
No. 19635
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I translated some Hungarian literature again this afternoon. It's really therapeutic.
This time it's a Humoreske, or Humoreszk from the early 20th century. (Considerably more modern than that one poem I did last time, I'd say.)

It's supposed to be funny. I laughed at the English version too when I re-read it (What a Pushkin... and so on.). Maybe my humour is just weird, but please tell me if you've found it good or not.

I want to translate another short piece by this author, that might be a better choice than this one (I'd say the subject matter is just simply funnier in that one), but this volume was the first one I grabbed, and I marked this story in it. Mea culpa
No. 19674
>Against Interpretation by Susan Sontag.
So I read it but I rather disliked it, the title turns out to be pretty much clickbait. Of course I'd agree on the points that one-bit interpretation through e.g. a Freudo-Marxist framework can be stifling or that sometimes people tend to overinterpret art, and this is bad. But interpretation can also be absolutely necessary and good in other contexts, which she also sheepishly admits. Further she builds on some dubious claims such as her view that the value of art was somehow undisputed before the Greeks started theorizing about it and her positive vision of an "erotics of art", it doesn't really appeal to me.
And as you say, nowadays the problem is rather inverted that people pay too much attention to form, leading to absurd pedantry such as bickering about e.g. the encoding of a movie file rather than engaging with the content.

I think I'm going to read Walter Benjamin's The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction now, as it seems relevant. Somehow I've came upon a few texts recently that dealt with the topic of art theory and actually I haven't made up my mind yet what to think about it.

I like it, it was quite funny and legible.
Here is some nitpicking with a few words, though these are just some suggestions to consider, I'm not sure myself but I felt like these might sound better. Maybe a native speaker could rather help out:
Especially the one who was called

harddifficult Latin words

enough fromfor a young


beyondbelow the horizon
No. 19677
>S. Sontag

Well, it's from 1964 and back then form wasn't really at the center as it is now. But it sums up this position quite well and easy to understand, ofc one can ask what does a piece of art mean, but what it is is even more interesting to me, also what it does. I wouldn't dismiss interpretation but leaving out the form is a big miss she tried to highlight. The erotics of art is kinda vague but quotable, maybe because it's so vague.

> leading to absurd pedantry such as bickering about e.g. the encoding of a movie file

that is not meant by form. perhaps in a very broad sense with the focus on digitality of a piece of art. Form in the classic and art related sense would be about the films aesthetics, the camera work, cut and many more that does not meddle with the plot in a direct way.
No. 19679
Thanks. I'll look into it now.
Those are the type of errors I was worried about, so it's good that you posted them.

Though my main concern was if people would find it humorous at all. I'm glad that I didn't kill the jokes. That's a big victory for me.
No. 19696
>interpretation can also be absolutely necessary and good in other contexts
I think to counter the contemporary (1960's) overapplication of metaphor, she argued for an overapplication of literalism. While neither approach is perfect for all situations, I appreciate her emphasis on the artist as the conveyer of meaning(through form), rather than the critic.

>Maybe a native speaker could rather help out
Your suggestions are all excellent imo. I would only add one more:
-Undoubtable-proclaimed the judgement Steve the peach-, it's undoubtable that our...
In this sentence either judged Steve the peach or proclaimed Steve the peach would be better.

>I'm glad that I didn't kill the jokes
You didn't. The humor relies on absurd statements. To survive translation they need to be coveyed clearly, but without unnecessary elaboration. You certainly did that-I was impressed. As the expression goes:Dying is easy, comedy is hard.
No. 19701
Thanks a lot.
I implemented most of the changes you recommended.
>As the expression goes:Dying is easy, comedy is hard.
That's nice.

Karinthy's "motto" was: In humour I know no joke
He is one of my favourite Hungarian authors and I was glad that I could share this piece of writing with you.
No. 19739
The Wake by Paul Kingsnorth

Holy shit, this is the most EC-tier thing I've ever seen. I've never read an author who gets it like this guy.

>our fathers was freer than us our fathers fathers stalcced the wilde fenns now the fenns is bean tamed efry thing gets smaller. for efry cilde born there is sum new law a man sceolde be free and alone on his land the world sceolde not cum in until he ascs it. freodom sceolde there be in angland again lic there was in the eald daegs in the first daegs of the anglisc
No. 19740
>it is lic my grandfather saed to me lic what i saed to ecceard to these wapentac men this hwit crist he lies. it is hard to sae these things they moste be saed in thy hus only if thu is hierde the preost and the thegn and the gerefa and the wapentac they will tac thu down. but it is lic my grandfather saed before the crist cum our folcs gods was of anglisc wind and water now this ingenga god from ofer the sea this god he tacs from us what we is. there is sum of us saes my grandfather still cepan alyf the eald gods of angland efen in these times and he wolde spec to me of these things when my father was not lystnan a thrall was he to those who wolde tac from him what macd him man
this is not of what i was specan not of my father of him i does not spec but it seems to me thu moste cnaw it was the crist and the bastard what toc from me what i was what i is for men of all places was afeart of both. all is afeart in this world is not fear what cepes the gebur from cwellan the thegn who cepes him down is not fear what cepes us from slittan the throtas of the preosts when they tells us we is born to die that we synns by fuccan or drincan is not fear what macs us hyd lic hunds liccan our beallucs when we is telt
No. 19754
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> I appreciate her emphasis on the artist as the conveyer of meaning(through form), rather than the critic.

I think it's not even the artist but the artwork itself that takes you. erotics of art is a seduction, an experience (of presence of something?). That would go well with what you said before concerning the metaphor. She dismisses the representationality, the symbolism that these critics attribute to a work of art. Rather the artwork in itself is present in a way. And that is why you have to think about what it is and not what it means.
Tho there exist art that is explicitly symbolic, art historians would say, especially the older on from the middle ages and later on.. still lives come to my mind. Dunno about ancient greek art. For Hegel it was not symbolic art but the convergence of form and content (idea) afaik.
No. 19765
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>I think it's not even the artist but the artwork itself that takes you
Yes, I think this is an even better understanding of Against Interpretation. The artist-if I may, ironically, use a metaphor-births a work before setting it loose on the world. The artist is free to shape his art but, once he removes his hand, it is the art itself which we encounter and not the artist. Critics valuing content over form are searching for the distant creator instead of appreciating the moment when they are present with the creation. Or worse, they're discarding what that creation is, and replacing it with their own ideas of what it should be.
>Tho there exist art that is explicitly symbolic
This picture, Oath of the Horatii, is a good example. Its form is layered with symbolism, and exposes the limitations of Sontag's philosophy. Maybe limitation is the wrong word. She would simply value the sensual experience of the paintings form, over its underlying allegory. In the same way she would value the immediacy of a scene playing out on a movie screen without stopping to think about the director. It's kind of a radical point of view, maybe that's why it struck a chord with me.
No. 19768
>Critics valuing content over form are searching for the distant creator instead of appreciating the moment when they are present with the creation.

I don't know if Wilhelm Dilthey is known in the anglosphere but he is a key figure for hermeneutics in the germanosphere and what you just said is pretty much his position, to interpret is to feel or comprehend the genius of the artist who is above the average man.

I'm not sure right now but did Sontag said something about modern art and the difference to allegoric art of earlier centuries? Without being an expert, not even an amateur on this field, but I think conceptual art a strand of so called modern art is more or less symbolic art. Maybe the difference is that it does not rely on a certain canon as art did back then(?).
No. 19770
>did Sontag said something about modern art and the difference to allegoric art of earlier centuries?
Sontag did single out modern Abstract painting as a way for an artist to use form while denying the viewer any identifiable content. This was mentioned as a way to avoid interpretaion, since the interpreters would have nothing to decipher. It was also seen to be in stark contrast to prior art movements which utilized recognizable objects or, as you said, a visual canon.
No. 19772
Here's a thought experiment that I invented while trying to understand my role as an artist, sometime in second year of art school.

There is a computer with a display that generates random images and I mean completely random, 99.9999% of it is pure noise. There is a person sitting in front of it. Whenever the person deems whatever appears on the screen to have artistic merit, he presses "Print screen". And although the quality of the produced "art" depends on the observer's ability to distinguish art from noise, he himself has no input in creating it: merely observing it.

And now, the question: who is the artist in this scenario? The unthinking machine that generates imagery (allegory for nature), or the observer, who simply recognizes beauty, but has no hand in actually creating it (the artist)?

My answer is neither. "Art" is simply the divine Truth, the ideal platonic forms, the axiomatic conceptual "particles" of reality. They manifest in physical figures in the phenomenal world, through objects and shapes, and represent their conceptual ideas with varying degrees of accuracy. The artist doesn't create anything, he merely Discovers the truth. The only IMPORTANT skill an artist should have is "taste", or "gnosis": the ability to recognize beauty and truth. The mechanical skill required to shape physical objects into smybols of truth can be reduced to a press of a button: as it has with photography.
No. 19773
When you have set the boundaries of a certain art medium, such as "colors in the human visible spectrum in the 2D plane", "a series of pitches in a length of time", "a lump of physical mass", you have defined a set of all artistic works possible within those boundaries.
Your job as an artist is simply to explore that infinite possibility space and bring something back from it.
No. 19774
I took a long time to read Hamlet.
Fuck my the olde English, I didn't get the whole mad thing, and just think is a terrible play.
I read Othello before this and it is much better.

Onward to Winson's War, while I doubt this will change my mind regarding Churchill, I have a stack of fiction books brought over from England and plan on reading them next.
No. 19785
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Its a russian ortodox church guide for chrism making.
A manuscript was written in 1683 year.
What is chrism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrism
How it feels? 15 ml equals 3-4 month of meditation
No. 19793
Shakespeare's work is meant to be viewed in theatre, NOT read as a book
No. 19864
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Finished this the other day, it's an apparently quite popular sci-fi novel by Chinese author Liu Cixin.
I'm not going to spoil the plot, but as an appetizer there's a chapter in which a computer is emulated through the usage of 30 million soldiers using black and white flags (instead of 0s and 1s). The effort is coordinated by the avatars of Newton, Von Neumann and the first Chinese emperor Qin Shi Huang inside a VR game.
It was quite an enjoyable read, particularly the first half because of the historical episodes related to the Chinese Communist Revolution and civil war which I was only vaguely aware of. Though towards the end the plot became a bit conventional, there were still some really interesting concepts. Also I really liked the style of the language for the most part, it seems like a great translation.
No. 19865
Even if they are meant to be viewed, it doesn't mean that your experience will necessarily be worse if you read it, because you can imagine all the dramatis personae yourself. I often go further and pick the one character I would have liked to play and read some (or all) of his lines aloud (I hope nobody overheard me when I was being Gloucester; people at my workplace would be thoroughly weirded out by that XD), it makes it even more fun. In fact, if you watch the play at the theater, you enjoy the work of the director and the performances of the actors first and foremost rather than playwright's talent. I think, even if you are going to watch a play, it's better to read it beforehand and then compare your own vision of it with director's vision. If you do otherwise, you'll just fail to form your personal impressions and will be stuck with someone else's.
No. 19869
>there's a chapter in which a computer is emulated through the usage of 30 million soldiers using black and white flags (instead of 0s and 1s). The effort is coordinated by the avatars of Newton, Von Neumann and the first Chinese emperor Qin Shi Huang inside a VR game.
Sounds like you 12 years old shiteater.
No. 19870 Kontra
Even so, that'd be by a large margin less pathetic than accusing people of such.
No. 19873
Regarding the circumstances it took me quite a time to get back into regular reading after those nervous breakdowns in february but I finally finished the Golden Ass and quickly afterwards I read through Melück Maria Blainville by Achim von Arnim, which is a fun and even a bit moving romanticist novella. It's set during times of the french revolution and tells the story of an arabic woman who finds her way to france over a ship and starts a career as an actress in theatre. She is depicted as being extremely beautiful, of great wisdom and nearly unapproachable to men. One day she falls in love with a beautiful young prince who waits to finally be allowed to marry his to-be wife. They have am affair and he wants to leave her, this is when the story takes a dramatic turn and the arabic woman Melück turns out to have magic powers with whose help she takes capture the young prince's heart as revenge for him leaving her for his wife. Even though his wife forgave him his treasure, he slowly loses all of his life and will power and becomes terribly sick. By the help of a friend who is a doctor and studied the magic arts in Arabia the prince regains his health in favor of letting Melück stay at the married couples home as a part of the family. They have a good time together until the french revolution begins. While the prince, his wife and the doctor cheer about the people striving for freedom and reason, Melück Maria Blainville makes a prophecy that she and the prince will die by the force of the revolutionaries and the doctor will help doing it. They ignore her prophecy but everything happens exactly that way. When Melück is killed by a former lover she denied (who became a revolutionary leader out of frustration), she still owns the prince's heart so he dies as well. Before she dies she tells the doctor to save the princess and the children and bring them to switzerland, which he does before killing himself. Also there was a moving puppet playing a role in the novella but I found it to be a rather weird and forced Dingsymbol. Guess I'll read Isabella von Ägypten this year but now I'll finally get to read Knut Hamsun's Hunger first.
No. 19875
>Well, it's from 1964 and back then form wasn't really at the center as it is now.
I have a bit of a hard time understanding the reasons for that. I think I have at least some rudimentary grasp on the art movements of that time and it doesn't really make sense to me. Am I missing something?
Maybe this whole dichotomy of form/content is actually not that useful.

>that is not meant by form.
Fair enough. Actually why I went back to respond right now is that I had a talk with my younger brother who watches anime and he straight up told that graphics is the most important criteria for him and he won't watch anything that's below 720p. I'm not even sure what to make of it but it makes me low-key horrified.

>I think it's not even the artist but the artwork itself that takes you. erotics of art is a seduction, an experience
Now this actually reminds me of the Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy, with Sontag leaning more towards the Dionysian. I'm not sure if this way of thinking about it helps others but this way it makes more sense to me.

>Melück Maria Blainville by Achim von Arnim
This guy's name cracks me up already, but then the plot summary sounds even more wild

>I'll finally get to read Knut Hamsun's Hunger first.
You'll probably enjoy it, especially considering what your mental state seems to be right now.
Consider fasting while reading it as well for the authentic Hunger experience.
No. 19876
>This guy's name cracks me up already, but then the plot summary sounds even more wild
I often feel like not only Brentano and von Arnim but also german romanticism in general is pretty underrated. Both wrote really great novellas and Melück Maria Blainville isn't even peak wildness yet. You've got to read "Die mehreren Wehmüller und ungarischen Nationalgesichter" or at least read the summary on wikipedia, it's a hell of a ride. Let's not even talk about the sheer madness in the work of Jean Paul (even I haven't dared to read more then one short novella from him yet, not only because his language and prose hard to understand for someone living in 21st century germany), who pretty much anticipated elements of metafiction and post-modernism.
No. 19878
>I often feel like not only Brentano and von Arnim but also german romanticism in general is pretty underrated.
Incidentally I've also read a blogpost about (more or less) this time period in literature (https://autisticmercury.com/2017/02/25/novelmindset/) today and I've realized how little I know about it and how influential it was. I think I'll start with getting more into Goethe as I've been meaning to for a while, but I'll definitely mark the books you recommended for future reading.
I haven't felt that way in a while, but recently again it seems so daunting how much literature is out there and how much I'm able to read.
No. 19892
> I think I have at least some rudimentary grasp on the art movements of that time and it doesn't really make sense to me. Am I missing something?

The arts are alright for Sontag, she has a problem with the critics and how they approach art, also I imagine in 1964 the arts business was quite stuck up in a bourgeois way

>Maybe this whole dichotomy of form/content is actually not that useful.

It's confusing since these seem connected but also separated.

>reminds me of the Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy

I don't know Nietzsche well enough but there seem to be at least similarities, yes.

>straight up told that graphics is the most important criteria for him and he won't watch anything that's below 720p

An attitude that is not new, just like with graphics in computer games. Not sure if this is form or resolution, but then again resolution could be a part of form but what extent does it take in comparison to other things that are considered form?
No. 19895
No wonder, Romanticism is considered a blue print for (post)modern aesthetics.
No. 20142
This year I've read three books so far:
Bone Clocks by David Mitchell,
Wilde Reise Durch die Nacht by Walter Moers and
Der Schrecksenmeister by Walter Moers.

I like Moers (all of it from the very vulgar to the child-like) but it's really not an author that I can read two books of back to back. Had to force myself to continue with Der Schrecksenmeister, even though it was really good. It might be my second favourite after Rumo.

The highlight was definitely Bone Clocks, though. Somehow I read the best books at the beginning of the year. Last year it was Umberto Ecos The Name of the Rose, which left me exhausted and fulfilled and has enriched my perspective on life until now. This year it was Bone Clocks and I doubt I'll read something better this year. I've read other books from Mitchell and all were great (Ghostwritten, Cloud Atlas, 1000 Autums of Jacob de Zoet). Good thing I didn't start with Bone Clocks as it really works best if you've read some of his other works. Not only because of the references but because of what you learn to expect from him and how that opens you up for being played. I thin I'd recommend Jacob de Zoet as first thing to read from Mitchell because it is very different, much easier for people not used to his style and gives you confidence in his ability. All the other books require some confidence to push through parts you might not like that much - at least that was the case for me - but it's usually important that you don't like those parts too much (with one exception in Ghostwritten, which still seems pointless to me).

Gosh, I've glanced at this thread for half a year and never posted because I don't want to talk about a book until after I've read it and the timing just wasn't right.
No. 20149
I'm halfway done with Mishima's The sailor who fell from grace with the sea, and I don't see why this is the best Japanese literature has to offer.
At least so far.
It's good, really good, but I don't see him dethroning Kawabata's writing for me.
No. 20249
This man, in my country, he is nothing.
No. 20256
That’s Murakami Haruki and he is indeed a hack.
No. 20366
Was at the antique book store recently and got myself a copy of Aeschlys' tragedies and the collected works of Andreas Gryphius, a 17th century German poet that I incidentally only recently stumbled upon about somewhere online. I've only skimmed it but it seems quite interesting, unlike anything I've read so far.

But I'm actually just posting to share this literary anecdote that cracked me up:
>The person from Porlock was an unwelcome visitor to Samuel Taylor Coleridge during his composition of the poem Kubla Khan in 1797. Coleridge claimed to have perceived the entire course of the poem in a dream (possibly an opium-induced haze), but was interrupted by this visitor from Porlock while in the process of writing it. Kubla Khan, only 54 lines long, was never completed. Thus "person from Porlock", "man from Porlock", or just "Porlock" are literary allusions to unwanted intruders who disrupt inspired creativity.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_from_Porlock
Because it's just too good to not have it's own Wiki page.
No. 20398
Restoring thread order 4