/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

Currently at Radio Ernstiwan:


It is about Horror Punk, starting from The Misfits, then the two samples This is Horror Punk 1&2 which tried to give a good overview of what emerged after the reunion of The Misfits end of the 90ties (without Glen Danzig of course) and after this some random pieces of the genre. To be honest, some psychobilly and othere familiar genres are within this playlist. by Horror Punk & Psychobilly

M3U - XSPF


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No. 21800
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I dont know where to put this and I guess history thread is on systemkontra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ56MYa9W8M
Video is about Russia getting smaller. But my question is, do you think Russia's collapse in early 90s would not have happened if they didn't lose a massive amount of their population? Do you think it was ultimately generational population shocks that killed USSR?
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No. 21810 Kontra
>>21800
>systemkontra
Are you shure? I think it's not bumped for long time just
>video
I already know from what channel it is. It's very dumb channel for hypernormies who tells facts like "sun is hot" and often incorrect thing
>actual topic
This is politics, not a history. Everything disscution about post-ussr russia will 100% end in heavy politics territory. And current crisis of russia as country is main political theme today inside of russia.
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No. 21812
>generational population shocks that killed USSR
The vid barely said anything about loses in building the communism since 1920s. So it makes the point above irrelavant given the union had already undergone significant shrinking before.
Anyways, the speaker preaches about demographics based upon the stats from wikipedia with this oh-my-gosh voice. I am hesitant to make a full sense of it as it's quite arguable to denote china's population as enormous as they officially do. Same applies to the others in the list.
It also didn't mention ukranian wwII casualties, which would be fun to know.
Apart from that, he managed to stretch a two-sentence point whose essence is Russia's suffering due to the war aftertaste for ten minutes.
Felt like reading up on the topic by means of the pulp. Not much use.
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No. 21814
>>21800
A lot of factors that weren't mentioned: extreme high rates of abortion, extreme corruption inequality and poverty, resource based economy to this day, low life expectancy because of widespread alcoholism, 3rd world tier AIDS rates...

>My question is, do you think Russia's collapse in early 90s would not have happened if they didn't lose a massive amount of their population?

No, I don't think that. USSR wasn't the only country with massive population losses during
WWII. It simply collapsed (among other reasons) because socialist command economy doesn't work.
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No. 21815
>>21814
>It simply collapsed (among other reasons) because socialist command economy doesn't work.
Saying something like this is video from op-post tier tbh. Collapse of ussr really very complex problem.
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No. 21855
110 kB, 600 × 800
Redpill me on good unbiased literature regarding european paganism

Thank you
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No. 21861
>>21855
Unless you're talking about explicitly neopagan or Christian texts, it's all going to be unbiased if it's the kind of thing you'd read today.
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No. 21882
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/world-troubles-1914-1934/query/Moscow+Peace+Treaty
A newsreel from the archives of the British Pathé, recapping what happened between 1914 and 1934, ending with a warning, that bad times are ahead, and war is coming.
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No. 21888
>>21855
>regarding european paganism
That's kind of a broad topic. They didn't all have the same religion you know, although my understanding is a lot of them were fertility cults of one form or another (as was most of Sumeria at one time or another). Probably an interesting place to start would be looking at the differences in folklore, and the kinds of basic societal assumptions and abject lessons in them to get a feel for the genuine religious beliefs of the time as opposed to listening to some modern revisionist many of whom are probably viewing it through the lens either of Christianity or some equally erroneous vision based on romanticism of their primitive European past.

Honestly I never got this fascination with the time. On the one hand, yeah there is something to be said for where one's people come from, but on the other, we spent a lot of time living like savages.
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No. 21911
>>21888
I have not heard of any fertility cultism in celtic societies. Note that "celtic" is as meaningless as it goes since that term was coined by greek historians around 400 BC and used by romans at the time of Juluis Cesar to differentiate between those on their side of the river Rhine (Gallico) and those to the other side. But that othre side was everything nort and east of todays france, all the way to the caucasus.

Unfortunately we barely have any sources on them since they never used Runes to write down any form of history, except some gothic tribe way in the east, if you cound the gothic alphabet, but the only thing I know of that was found in terms of writing was the gothic bible. It's not any expertise of mine, though, I just find those times fascinating.
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No. 22040
>>21911
I've been researching into galician and celtiberian paganism. Like you said, it's hard to find sources since they didn't have any kind of writting. Most of what we know about them are from greek and roman reports on those people... also archeological evidences and the respective paralelism with other celtic people's
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No. 22363
335 kB, 2000 × 2829
Tell me more about Antifaschistische Aktion (or Antifa), both its historic and contemporary movements. What were their greatest successes? Were they known for community service or any sort of civic duty beyond political action? Have there ever been any notable non-leftists, non-socialists, non-communists or non-left-anarchists who publicly supported Antifa or are they inherently left-wing and left-wing exclusively?

Genuinely interested.
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No. 22365
>>22363
Most people on the left genuinely dont give a shit about antifa. Ironically the main people who ever did was poltards otherwise I always thought they were pretty fringe. Hell even Black Bloc struck me as more relevant. I could be wrong and maybe things have changed but when I was younger it was simply irrelevant and mainly only brought up by poltards the same way they whine about Soros or whatever else is their boogeyman of the moment to spread lies about as a threat to bind together and control large groups of idiots. Of course Black Bloc was notoriously retarded to the point it often just looked like a cover for police to start fires and break windows so they could close protests down like at the WTO in Seattle.
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No. 22369
>>22363
I mean, if Antifa couldn't prevent Hitler from gaining power (Though that was a higher decision on the part of von Papen and von Hindenburg, they had jack to do about Chaplin getting into power), then I'd say it wasn't that successful.
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No. 22370
108 kB, 800 × 600
>>22365
>Most people genuinely dont give a shit about antifa

Fixed that for you.

I honestly feel most Antifa's legacy is just mythologizing and self-congratulatory hogwash from nostalgic partisans or edgy teens who feel compelled to project their idealized personas into historical events they never lived through. Their actual accomplishments are few and far between, and most people want nothing to do with them.

Black Bloc anarchists used to be very active in anti-capitalist movements throughout the late 1980s up until the mid-2000s when the political climate from the War on Terror effectively stamped out all resistance. Black Bloc anarchists would regularly fight police and square off publicly whenever the G-8 would hold a meeting. Lots of leftists naively assumed Obama would reverse Bush-era terror policies. Time would eventually reveal they bet on the wrong horse (not that McCain would've done any different, but you get the idea). After Obama got into office, most radical leftists switched causes towards continuing the legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Keep in mind most anarchists were fiercely anti-racist and would routinely get into streetfights with skinheads, but greater political concerns put radical anti-racism on hold.

The American analog to Antifa was originally called Anti-Racist Action (ARA) as opposed to the UK-based Anti-Fascist Action. They now rebranded as the TORCH Network following a disastrous confrontation at the Ashford House restaurant in Tinley Park, IL where members associated with the Hoosier Anti-Racist Movement (a branch of ARA) assaulted attendees. HARM apparently received a tip the white nationalist group Illinois European Heritage Association would be holding a meeting there, so anti-racist partisans went and trashed the place and assaulted patrons, some of who were not even affiliated with the WNs supposedly in attendance. It was only because an off-duty police officer was having lunch that the anti-racists were stopped. HARM caused up to $20k in property damage and injured 10 people in the process.

Re: Soros and Antifa. Unless you're referring to a very specific deed that had measurable consequences, blaming Soros for "funding" anything just reeks of baseless paranoia. From everything I've seen, Antifa is as decentralized as your average cell of the Animal Liberation Front (unsurprisingly, those two movements strongly overlap), so the burden of proof is on whoever claims that Soros funds something or someone that played an instrumental role carrying out whatever. The Antifa group in question would have to be very large and influential to mean jackshit, so I doubt Soros would waste valuable resources throwing some student anarcho-communist fuckups some money.

But forgiving all that, Antifa's biggest problem is the very people it attracts to its cause. A huge swath of Antifa (I say the howling majority) are all deeply embedded into Alternative music, especially Punk, which speaks volumes for the quality of life you're bringing into the movement. It seems improbable that a person with high self-esteem, talent, and good prospects in life would choose Antifa activism as a lifestyle or as the most meaningful way to improve the world. These young activists seem to have concluded early that their prospects in life were minimal, and that political violence was the only way to give their lives meaning. They find significance in lashing out.

On a completely different note, there's a good article written by a former anarchist about his comrades while in the movement:
https://quillette.com/2018/12/11/sad-radicals/
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No. 22372
Just wanna note that the Antifa is perhaps not a homogenous mass or organization. It's just a short for Antifascists.
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No. 22373 Kontra
>>22372
Indeed, hence the original inquiry into its historical and contemporary movements. I also made note of the fact that Antifa activists are all highly decentralized like the ALF.
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No. 22374
>>22370
My point being that so far as I could figure it's another of the millions of stupid shit strawmen poltards use to try and quash any dissent, and when what they're really bitching about is an ARA group but they're too dumb to understand there's anything but "the left" which is why they use all these terms interchangeably. To them there's no difference which is why they randomly throw around terms like Marxist and liberal as if it meant the same thing. Antifa itself probably has more clout in say Europe, so to me bitching about antifa among American poltards makes as much sense as bitching about the Pirate Partei.

>These young activists seem to have concluded early that their prospects in life were minimal, and that political violence was the only way to give their lives meaning.
You're confusing multiple issues here including that of disenfranchisement. Like of fucking course the disenfranchised would be more attracted to political activism to begin with because no milquetoast liberal wants to rock the boat and no Capitalist oligarch is going to give any shits about activism except to fool a bunch of troglodytes into defending their power base and coopting themsuch as say poltards while quashing any dissent. People who assume they have the best prospects for the future tend not to care about politics and activism so much which is also why there tends not to be as much of it in any meaningful sense in a roaring economy with healthy middle class whereas there's tons of often violent activism when the economy is shit and class mobility has locked up with stark contrasts between rich and poor with an unhealthy middle class, hence why times and places like say Weimar Germany was filled with violent street clashes.

Also ALF actually does cool if at times misguided things while being a small practically entirely irrelevant group, at least as much as the ELF. It also speaks volumes that groups like the KKK are not considered terrorist groups while the ALF and ELF are officially designated terrorist groups despite the fact they only do property damage whereas the KKK has a history of actively using legit terrorism against innocent civilians including murder and assassination. This is because contrary to what any whiny retard will tell you groups like the Proud Boys and KKK are backed by the establishment and groups like Black Bloc, ELF, and ALF among others are not.
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No. 22377
>>22374
>It also speaks volumes that groups like the KKK are not considered terrorist groups while the ALF and ELF are officially designated terrorist groups despite the fact they only do property damage whereas the KKK has a history of actively using legit terrorism against innocent civilians including murder and assassination. This is because contrary to what any whiny retard will tell you groups like the Proud Boys and KKK are backed by the establishment and groups like Black Bloc, ELF, and ALF among others are not.

Placing the Proud Boys and the Klan in the same sentence is intensely distasteful, but I'll humor this part. While the violent acts of the Klan deserve every bit of condemnation and punishment to the fullest letter of the law, we cannot ignore that the group's connections with the Democratic Party establishment ran deep in the early 20th century. There were few Southern politicians who could get elected without them. It's also hard to designate them as terrorists when they had 4.5 million members at the Second Wave's peak in the 1920s. While it doesn't give them carte blanche to be violent bydlo, the Klan supports the Constitution and other American values. In contrast, the Black Bloc, ELF, ALF and other anarchist activists openly draw from people who oppose the very concept of nations, especially the United States. When these people are effectively a fifth column, they're going to be designated as terrorists.

Re: Proud Boys. That organization runs on Gavin McInnes's money alone. If he goes broke, the Proud Boys die tomorrow:
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/fbi-now-classifies-far-right-proud-boys-as-extremist-group-documents-say.50116/

I personally don't like the word "terrorist" because it carries so many gross political connotations. It's an inherently loaded and deceptive concept that obfuscates so much of the context behind political violence (be it from faith, left or right politics), so to me, it refers to little more than militant action from actors who can't afford nukes, tanks and jets. We're also addressing individual actors as opposed to group action. Plenty of anarchists flying the black flag just want to protest the government and be edgy, and aren't trying to stab and maim random people. Likewise, plenty of Klansmen and Nazi skinheads just want to listen to RAC and complain about government and miscegenation.

We're going to derail this thread if we get too stuck on this, but this'll be my last word on the subject. If anyone else has anything interesting to tell me about Antifa, be my guest.
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No. 22390
>>22374
>there's anything but "the left" which is why they use all these terms interchangeably. To them there's no difference which is why they randomly throw around terms like Marxist and liberal as if it meant the same thing. 
See part of the reason why this phenomenon arose is the circumstance that a lot of self-proclaimed antifascists and marxists of the post WWII period crassly exaggerated the term of fascism. For many of those, capitalism itself was already a form of fascism, US-american imperialism was called fascism as well, soon every authoritarian government was seen as fascist. Hell, the GDR ideologues even saw their wall as a defense against western german fascism. That was the point where the antifascists' endeavors became laughable and meaningless, when they're actualy enemy - the national socialist, the fascist as he was existant in the 30s and 40s faded out more and more to finally become irrelevant. At least here in Germany the less actual fascists existed, the more prone antifascists became to call others out as such. Finally antifascist fever visions got to a new high in 21st century when the AfD arose, a party that is merely constituted of conservativist values and economical liberalism but already seen as fascist. Well, there are those parts of the party around Björn Höcke which do go in the direction of NatSoc. But antifascists already called the AfD fascist in its early neo-liberalist days (here we go again with the neo-liberalism is fascism equation) when the party still was led by Bernd Lucke. I guess this was where their actions started to backfire and the AfD's radicalization began. Being called a fascist and nazi the very first moment they stepped out into political business pretty much laid the ground for the further developments that we're acquainted with. It's a simple psychological phenomenon playing out on the scale of politics, sort of like gaslighting: if you call someone mentally ill for the most time im his life he will at some point believe it and positively attribute his condition. Sorry for the slight derailing but it's a prime example of what I'm talking about.
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No. 22398
>>22390
Concerning the AFD you have to keep in mind German history and the tendency of this party to be a pool for people with national or racist wordviews. The German history proved quite well were it could lead you. That's a reason for the antifacist hysteria around the AFD. They are called facists because they are seen as a foreboding of the repetition of a shaming history in humankind. Ofc they are far away but those leftists have a Spidermans spider senses, you know.
I'd probably call myself leftist in the sense that I want a postcapitalist society and that I don't hold anything on feeling better over people who have a different skin color. My division goes along the line of stupidity and power which is the fate of every race and thus structural to a certain degree.
The left is divided. Anti-capitalism is its common denominator. So called liberals are perhaps against racism and for social justice but they are not necessarily against the capitalist mode of production.
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No. 22400
>>22390
>>22398
The only way we're going to have a productive discussion about Fascism and Antifascism is if we can first come to a commonly agreed definition of Fascism itself. A Sisyphean task to be sure.

If you ask me, Fascism can only be studied by the regimes that championed its ideals. Keep in mind Fascist movements and Fascist regimes differed greatly in both professed beliefs and public policies once they assumed leadership. Ergo, we should exclude Fascist movements that never reached power such as Mosley's British Union of Fascists or Codreanu's Iron Guard. Likewise, reactionary or monarchistic regimes like Francoist Spain or Imperial Japan do not count as Fascist regimes because Fascism is inherently modernist and thus opposed to monarchs (hello, Primo de Rivera). Furthermore, neither regime adopted the term nor the sufficient criteria of public policies that would define them as Fascists.

This leaves us with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. Both regimes had these points in common that distinguished them from other Nationalist movements:
  • Demoskepticism or opposition to democracy: Both saw democracy as corrupt, weak and morally degenerate. Unlike other dictatorships that pay lip service to democracy, Fascists openly oppose it on principle. Hitler and Mussolini planned to severely curtail, if not outright abolish, democracy once they assumed power. Of course, Fascist parties see the utility in democratic elections while holding contempt for the institution, but that's neither here nor there.
  • Spiritually rooted theories on racial purity couched in atavistic myths: Both regimes saw their ancestors as the Aryan and Roman supermen of a mythological past. They believed actively purifying their respective bloodlines would lead to their naturally dominant roles, establishing global hegemony.
  • Violence as virtue: Both regimes believed war shaped and built a man's character. Fascists believed that men (and only men) could be shaped by war. Without continuous struggle, man eventually stagnates and falls into a state of degeneracy. Violence was not merely a means to an end; it was an end in and of itself. Fascists believe, much like India's Thuggee cult, that violence and killing strengthens the soul on a spiritual level. Perpetual state of war strengthens and purifies man's soul and the body politic. The book "In Stahlgewittern" (translated: "Storm of Steel") by Ernst Jünger has many of these themes. Ironically, he was privately opposed to Hitler and was peripherally connected to some men who planned on assassinating Der Führer.
  • Collectivist Statism: The "Socialism" in National Socialism rejects the conventional notions of wealth redistribution and instead has much more in common with Oswald Spengler's idea of Prussian socialism. Keep in mind Spengler harshly criticized Hitler, but that's another story. NS dictates that the state and its people are one single entity. All people, not just the armed forces, but workers, women, children, are all part of the dominant and pure machine of the people-state. Individual identity is supplanted with the State identity. Everyone is the state, the state is everyone, the people move with one purpose.
  • Economic subservience to the military. Both regimes' respective economies were in constant states of flux. By and large, the existing large engineering companies that existed in those countries became arms of the state. When those arrangements failed to produce enough armaments, they used slave labor to the point the German economy was almost dependent on it towards the end of the war. Both Mussolini and Hitler dropped their much-trumpeted welfare programs when they started diverting too much money from the military.
  • Imperialism and Expansionism. Whilst it's contested if Hitler had globalist intentions, he certainly wanted "Lebensraum" for the German people. It doesn't take a genius to surmise that Hitler would've greatly expanded Germany had he been successful. Meanwhile, Mussolini's Pre-WWII military adventures in Ethiopia and Libya were motivated less by an economic need than by a belief that Italy should have an empire because they were a superior race. Underscoring this is the simple fact that Ethiopia possessed no economic resources for Italy to exploit. Whilst many other regimes, Left and Right, have been imperialist and expansionist, this is worth noting because many contemporary Nationalist and far-right movements are very isolationist in wanting to expel foreigners but not expand their borders. Of course, this could change if they're in power and at at the mercy of global politics, but again, that remains to be seen.

If there's anything I missed, please tell me.
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No. 22402
>>22390
Except as you yourself stated the AfD actually had ties to or sympathized with genuinely fascist groups. It reminds me of the alt right retards whining about being called Nazis while they openly embrace it. AfD wasn't just about being conservative and actually did deserve to be called fascist sympathizers since that was literally their main appeal.
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No. 22406
>>22402
Bavaria is right, Schiz. This inability for many self-described leftists* to see the nuances that distinguish many right-wing movements damaged their credibility for impartial observers. I can't personally comment on AfD, but I don't trust MSM's representation of the political party. I would need sources close to German politics to properly inform me about that subject, preferably non-partisan Germans.

*as I've said in another thread, I find the left/right political spectrum to be woefully outmoded by the current political landscape, but for brevity's sake, the metric can be helpful to refer to a broad range of people with common assumptions. I personally believe the split in left/right politics concerns both the questions of equality and hierarchy: right-wingers reject equality and generally favor properly stratified societies (though not always) whereas leftists are proponents of egalitarianism and typically prefer flat hierarchies (though not always). Ergo, I use leftism as an umbrella to include Marxists, democratic socialists, communists, anarchists, left-syndicalists, et cetera. Social liberals, social democrats and progressives tend to fall closer to the center despite being left-leaning, so the term leftist isn't appropriate for them. The fact that leftists openly despise these people roughly as harshly as they do Fascists speaks volumes.
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No. 22407
>>22406
What is schiz? And I was agreeing with Bavaria saying
>Well, there are those parts of the party around Björn Höcke which do go in the direction of NatSoc.
AfD is specifically a rejection of actual Conservative German politics so far as I could tell. Why not vote for CSU or FDP then? Because it isn't primarily concerned with Conservativism or market liberalism. Although in particular trying to say shit like this
> I guess this was where their actions started to backfire and the AfD's radicalization began. Being called a fascist and nazi the very first moment they stepped out into political business pretty much laid the ground for the further developments that we're acquainted with
Always irritates me. As if getting called out on your tendencies makes it the fault of whoever called you out on that. It's not just stupid it's fucking childish and reminds me of this "well, I wasn't so much into terrorism before just creating a caliphate by any means necessary, but now that you call me an Islamic terrorist I guess I might as well go bombing some shopping malls this is all your fault nyah" kind of crap.
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No. 22412
Oh, we again turned into full 4chan /pol in history thread.
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No. 22413 Kontra
>>22412
How? There's been no shitflinging going on. Just heated disagreement here and there, but nothing in bad faith.
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No. 22423 Kontra
>>22407
>>22402
AfD at the start was mostly economic oriented and EU-skeptic. Notably supported by many German economics. The wedge where nationalism got in was the Anti-EU rhetoric of not ceding any more national power to the EU.
That the nationalist elements eventually gained more power due to everyone calling AfD fascist/Nazi is a fair point. Even though they are still not fascist.
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No. 22433
>>22407
Aren't you the one known as schizenu?

How did you get that name anyway? What's the "enu" a reference to?
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No. 22436
>>22433
? You mean the vierkanal meme that a bunch of Americans got called on KC? How the fuck should I know?

>>22423
I don't understand the deeper inner workings of German politics but you still haven't explained why they wouldn't vote CSU or FDP instead then since CSU is more Conservative and FDP is the economic liberal party. AfD so far as I could tell was just a far right nationalist party pretending outwardly to be something else, similarly to how LePen's party was still known as just code for the same far right nationalist sort of platform that's affiliated with those sorts of fascist elements.
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No. 22440
>>22436
First and foremost the CSU is only electable in Bavaria. Actually many conservatives and AfD sympathizers wished for a national version of the CSU but that's a quite unrealistic development. The thing with the mother party CDU is that it went through a significant shift from being a conservative party to a liberal one over the course of the decades. If you listen to a speech of Franz-Josef Strauss and one of Merkel you will understand what I'm talking about. Merkel herself went as far as to be afraid to call the german people germans, instead just called them "people who live here longer". This development might very well be cpnnected to the leftist march on the institutions that happened since the 70s. Oh and while the FDP is economically liberal, it's culturally liberal as well. Especially their youths regard themselves as progressive afaik.

Comparing the AfD with the RN is leading nowhere. Even though both parties follow a very similiar agenda nowadays their roots are heavily different. Thinking about it, they're even contrasting each other. While Marine broke with her fathers old-school fascist thought (including the antisemitism) and effectively de-radicalized her party, the AfD went through a process of radicalization throughout the years. If you want to know more about it, just read up on zhe parties' history.
By the way I don't think that the radicalization will continue, what I'm expecting to happen is a sort of right wing 68'. To really change something as a political movement you need radicals such as Höcke, you need the avantgarde to break through before you can get to the core of your enemies army. In the 60s and 70s you had a lots of western german students planning the communist revolution, literally overthrowing the political system. They may not have reached their goals but they definitely reached a cultural dominance of leftist thought in Germany (concerning arts and media at least) by pushing the boundaries. The AfD and identitarians don't do anything else, they push the boundaries to have a small but important change at the end of the day, concerning problems of migration, national identity and independence as well as family values. Their biggest problem though is that their conservative views lack the authentic religious foundation. Houellebecq turned out as a visionary once again when describing the same problem with the future version of the RN in Soumission. Still it's the cactual conservative's only choice these days. Also a lot of AfD voters are proud democrats, I think this is what actually fears the establishment the most and that's why they coined the term of populism. There is a handful of actual, real nazis in germany but no-one is really afraid of them.
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No. 22441
>>22398
I do keep in mind the german history all the time, don't worry about that one. What you're describing is pretty much what the right calls Schuldkult. Sure, the nazis deeds were barbaric and should not be forgotten but taking this particular point in germany history as a reference point to discredit any kind of arising nationalism as the first step to a repetition of what happened is, you call it, plain and simply a form of hysteria ("Der Schoß ist fruchtbar noch" has become a dogma). The turkish government is nationalistic to the brim and still they don't massacre Armenians again.

>I'd probably call myself leftist in the sense that I want a postcapitalist society and that I don't hold anything on feeling better over people who have a different skin color. 
Postcapitalist society in terms of communism? I mean, if you'd be a marxist that's what you would be talking about but I know that the contemporary left is enthusiastically searching for other solutions.
The second point is interesting, do you think wanting a somewhat ethnically homogenous society (even if it's only european, as it's the case within the european right) equals feeling better than other races?
Wanting to have people of your own or at least your similiar kind around has nothing to do with racism in my opinion. Maybe if you see it as discriminating to stop people from migrating into yout country but then there is no common ground for a debate.
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No. 22451
>>22441
>The turkish government is nationalistic to the brim and still they don't massacre Armenians again

Right, but der Schoß ist fruchtbar noch is not wrong but this is true for every person on this planet to a certain degree. I'm not saying Germany is on the brink of a 4th Reich but saying nothing will ever happen again because Hitler Germany was so outstanding is fooling yourself. Ofc a similar situation is unimagineable now and even in the near future but hatred and death wishes against ethnics that is followed by action is not unimaginable and a step.
There are enough ethnic conflicts based on the same logic but in Africa or SEA they don't have camps to gas people in an industrial fashion.

>Postcapitalist society in terms of communism? I mean, if you'd be a marxist that's what you would be talking about but I know that the contemporary left is enthusiastically searching for other solutions.

I'm for different solutions, the is no point in trying to copy the SU. Communism can be a source tho. It's an idea of a postcapitalistic society after all.

For the other point: Well, I have certain values I hold high and they are not shared by Africans and white Germans or Europeans alike. Hence I'm not living between people that are like myself. An African could be more similar to me than a German, the skin color would make us differ, ofc, but not our image on how to interact with each other. It's not like Europeans don't have fantasies about archaic things just like some Muslims are supposed to have it.

Europe can't take all migrants from Africa for years to come, that's why there must be solutions that go beyond closing down borders, that's just dealing with symptoms. I know Realpolitik always deals with symptoms but that's why there is also a need to think different and perhaps intervene somehow. Very hard to imagine on a world that cannot imagine alternatives anymore.
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No. 22453 Kontra
Maybe we can rename this thread in "4chan politics" and if people want to talk about history, not 4TH REICH ALTERNATIVE FOR GERMANY JEWS CONSPIRACY and other degeneracy, they can have actual history thread, that also not contain shitty memes in OP post?
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No. 22454 Kontra
>>22453
Either bring up something worth discussing or shut the fuck up. People like you who whine when there's an actual discussion taking place are the worst.

Yes, you will get tangeants that are not entirely on topic, but it's the inevitability whenever history is being discussed.
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No. 22456
>>22454
>>22453

I have to agree with the American here. Discussions cannot be kept strict on an imageboard. I don't see that our discussion, at least my post about the AFD I never talked about the jews was rather reasonable I think. We came from the history of the Antifa to this, but I don't see it drifting away into shitposting territory. Nobody is making short and witty or :DDD remarks on a political position. I haven't read it all
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No. 22460
94 kB, 1000 × 1500
How do you read academic texts about history?
Recently, I went back to reading a book that I haven't read since University.
Even then I only read a few passages, and not the entire book, as I took courses about Greek History only as personal interest and not as requirements for a major.
I generally have no problem reading the Illiad or other translated Greek works, but it's taking a long time to read this book.
The book tries to separate translations into different sections and categories, but it still ends up being fragmentary (especially when some of the translated works are very fragmentary themselves). Also, all footnotes are located at the end of the passage and not at the bottom of the page. This is fine for short passages, but for longer ones you have keep flipping pages to read the footnotes which sometimes are not very helpful at all. Example:
  1. Thuc. II 65.9: See 209
  2. See 137
  3. See 141 with n.4. 313.
  4. See 141.
  5. Compare 25.
Is this this just not the kind of book that you can read from cover to cover?
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No. 22461
>>22454
>>22456
We could go back to talking about why Russia collapsed :-DDDD
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No. 22462
>>22460
I also feel that I'm not thoroughly understanding all the translated works.
The book tends to only give single paragraphs introductions for a particular passage, and then immediately moves on to the next passage. Many times the passage in question will bring up things that are never talked about again in the book. The translations also tend to use Greek words (either because they are important or because they are untranslatable). This is fine for commonly used Greek words (and words that exist in english) such as polis, agora, apoikia, archon, astu, boule, chora, nomos, stele, stasis, ephoros, demos, barbaros, etc. The glossary is unhelpful as it only gives definitions for words that are commonly used (and so I already know them). The index gives passages for all Greek words used, but many times these words can only be understood through context and are not given definitions by the author.
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No. 22463
>>22460
You get a graphite pencil and a few post-it notes. Then as you read, you underline PARTS of sentences you deem critical. If something seems especially critical, then you should mark it with a post-it note.
Then you write down your own, condensed version into a notebook.

These books were made to be "studied", rather than to be "read" in a traditional sense.
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No. 22464
>>22460
>>22462
It depends on the book/text ofc. Like the Hungarian said, you mark important sentences, sections.
Might be helpful to know how such books work. A question of structure in academic texts. Maybe write an abstract about every chapter/whole book/ main thesis and arguments

Since I have no interest in ancient history these problems you have were never one of mine. I only had to write one small paper on Aristotle and I used the German translation.
Maybe your book is just a bad one but I remember now why history books on ancient greece, especially greek orginials + their translations are such bitches to read.

>Also, all footnotes are located at the end of the passage and not at the bottom of the page.

These people who decided it should be shot, similar for footnotes at the end of the book, this flipping is the worst shit ever. I also hate in-text citation like (Millman, Rosko 2009 p.165). Footnotes at the bottom of the page, everything else is crap.
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No. 22472
>>22460
It's a reader, not reading. I've got a similar book for translated Roman sources lying around here. It's laid out 'poorly' because it's not meant to be read, it's meant to be consulted. There are quite a few books in the historical wheelhouse that behave like that too, so it shouldn't be a new thing if you did any at a tertiary level.
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No. 22484 Kontra
>>22456
From all themes I see - over and over modern german politics.
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No. 22491
>>22436
>? You mean the vierkanal meme that a bunch of Americans got called on KC? How the fuck should I know?

It's not a vierkanker mene. The term is a portmanteau of Schizophrenic and Xenu, the Alien God in Scientology lore. A user christened you with the name following a very long, turgid and presumably incendiary post about Scientology allegedly authored by you. Since you like to talk about conspiracy theories, /pol/ users and Christianity, you became such an identifiable poster that the term stuck.

Unfortunately, most users on KC 2017 were unable to distinguish you from other Americans with anti-pol / anti-right-wing talking points, so other users were misidentified as you.
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No. 22495 Kontra
>>22491
The fuck? I never talked about Scientology.

> A user christened you with the
Somehow I suspect that poster is you.

>conspiracy theories, /pol/ users and Christianity,
I generally don't and that's a pretty broad number of topics, probably spread by shitposters from vierkanal themselves whenever anyone bitched about them shitting up the board.

>Unfortunately, most users on KC 2017 were unable to distinguish you from other Americans with anti-pol / anti-right-wing talking points, so other users were misidentified as you.
Which is what you are doing right now. There aren't even that many of us on here and you still are confusing me with other people. nb because Russia is right the history thread is turning into KC2017.

>>22463
Even with a pencil I feel like that's just vandalizing a book. I guess it depends if it's a college textbook or not.
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No. 22500 Kontra
>>22495
I cannot take credit for that. The guy invented that term and it has since stuck, but since it's a grave misnomer, I will abandon it.

This thread doesn't have to degenerate into KC 2017. And again, this is merely a minor tangent.

To bring things back to where they were from my end, does anyone care to address these posts?
>>22363
>>22400
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No. 22504
>>22363

Modern (European) Antifa was basically born during and shortly after the time of German reunification, mostly as a self-defense organisation of the post 1968 radical left youth movements like squatters and Autonomous groups.
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No. 22510
>>22500
>>22495
>>22491
The hell? Why is there cabbage shit in my history thread? I talk about conspiracies but I'm not the guy who mentioned Xenu in the conspiracy thread. If you're referring to me calling Tr*mp a fat conman like Hubbard I'd say it was apt. It's also obvious that even with the like 4 Americans on EC you apparently still call random Americans this dumb buzzword. Wasn't that RAC?

>>22440
Religion in Western Europe confuses me. Like France is supposed to be a Catholic country but they're turbo secular. Germany has two parties that call themselves Christian but I can't even see much Christian influence on politics beyond a couple things about Mutti.

>>22406
Probably as close as you can get to a left/right split. Personally I think they're kind of useless and outdated terms though.

>>22377
It's a loaded term but not a hard one to understand: specifically using violence against civilians. That's pretty much it. If you suicide bomb a military compound, it isn't terrorism. If you firebomb a ski resort because muh pristine forest, it isn't terrorism. If you specifically wage a campaign of violence to intimdate and frighten civilians including mass murder or random acts of violence, then it is terrorism, and that fits the KKK to a T. And like I said, it speaks volumes that the KKK is still not officially a terrorist organization, even though it certainly is, and yet groups like ALF and ELF are officially designated terrorists even though AFAIK they never actually hurt anybody. It's also why I think the right wing is full of crying pussies because they never had the kind of systematic persecution on an official level that leftists have had throughout US history. You won't get shit for charges by being a dues paying KKK member, but you absolutely will get nailed on as a terrorist for supporting ELF, ALF, or any of numerous leftist groups.

Also it's only a loaded term because it's abused. You currently have this retard calling the Iranian Revolutionary Guard "terrorists" despite the fact they are an official military organ of the Iranian state, and calling different Kurdish groups "terrorists" because of Turkey's butthurt and Turkey only gets tolerated because of being a strategically important NATO member. Obviously the Kurds additionally get shit on because despite being one of America's only useful allies in the region (the rest are absolutely fucking useless shitheads including Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Israel) and who were useful against both Saddam Hussein as well as ISIS they've now been abandoned https://www.npr.org/2018/12/24/679813573/we-will-curse-them-as-traitors-syrian-kurds-react-to-u-s-troop-withdrawal-plan
Which really makes me wonder why anyone even pretends the US is a reliable partner in fucking anything. The last two decades have proven beyond shadow of a doubt that our country simply does not have the capacity or repute to be a world leader or reliable partner in just about anything.

But getting back to the point, the problem isn't even that "terrorism" is a useless term, but that the assholes who like using it the most do so in the most abusive manner possible thus stripping the word of any meaning because what they really mean is "enemy of the neocon oligarch establishment" and nothing more. Obviously, groups like the KKK are ultimately not that, except for the fact they as well as a lot of the far right wingers are fundamentally opposed to aspects of the Capitalist world order, but are just too f'ing stupid to realize it isn't "Socialism" that's doing the shit they hate, it's Capitalism, and all that world system cares about is making a small group of people a lot more money. You can't make as much money with KKK types, but at least the KKK isn't fundamentally opposed to things like say their exploitation of third world labor (only their importation of it) whereas groups like ALF, ELF, Black Bloc, and so on in addition to Socialists of all stripes are fundamentally opposed to them and their system in a way the KKK isn't and never was.
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No. 22514
>>22510
>Wasn't that RAC?
Who else would this be?

>Probably as close as you can get to a left/right split. Personally I think they're kind of useless and outdated terms though.

As before, we agree. Previously brought this up in the conspiracy thread, but to reiterate, I think left/right is more of a social/philosophical question than a economic position, but that's neither here nor there.

Since I'm going to be away from my desktop for awhile, it's too difficult to correspond properly and succinctly address the rest of your post. Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy some quality time with my mother in the Adirondacks.

A good evening to you.
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No. 22568
The more things change, the more they stay the same:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/09/splits.htm

Even in the late 19th Century, European Marxists couldn't stand American ones.
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No. 22569
5,7 MB, 480 × 272, 1:41
>>22568
This kind of stuff has been true since forever. There's of course the Euros turning their noses up at us in general, but it's also just true of leftism in general which is what makes it so hilariously misinformed when certain people try talking about "leftists" as if it even resembles any kind of unified front.
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No. 22579
171 kB, 1200 × 806
Since tread occupied by 4cancer poltards, it is better to post there or make new thread?

I think in anglo world people know much more about this theme, so I interested in literature on theme of involvement of native american tribes in Anglo-American war of 1812. How much they was involved in war, if there was clashes of different tribes from both sides on front, and how was life of tribes that lived in territories where was ongoing war, but was not part of the conflict?
additionaly, I'd be interested in reading different historican opinions authors how much this war affected Napoleonic Wars in Europe?
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No. 22603
>>22579
Nobody cares about the War of 1812, even in the Anglo world. We fought to a draw, the Brits burned down Washington, and we kicked their asses at New Orleans and got a sick song out of it. That's the most anybody ever learns about it.

I'd look for a general history of the war, or of American history during the period. If there was any Indian involvement of note then, well, it'll be noted.

>>22460
>How do you read academic texts about history?
With great pain and annoyance. Unless you're looking for really obscure shit like an analysis of yearly taxes in early Mughal Punjab, you can find what you're looking for on almost any subject in a non-academic (read: well-written) book.

It pisses me off how most academics write. The point of their profession is to produce, preserve, and propagate knowledge, but it's like they're philosophically opposed to the idea of easily parseable information. I have a book on early Chinese history that I'm working through, but it's such a miserable thing to read that I've finished 2 other books before finishing the part on the Shang dynasty.

If you have to use highlighters and post-it notes to mine usable information from a book, it's a poorly written book.

>>22472
>It's laid out 'poorly' because it's not meant to be read, it's meant to be consulted.
But the book is just a "selection", not a comprehensive selection, and not narrowly themed selection. How the fuck is it supposed to serve as a useful reference work?
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No. 22607
>>22603
It is for tertiary study primarily. A comprehensive collection is the CIL and things like it and typically you know your field well enough to know roughly where to go for what you want anyway. For example if I want a source on the California Column, it is easier to just go to the back third or so of Vol. IX of the ORs than it is to find it in a 'comprehensive' collection.
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No. 22617 Kontra
>>22607
http://www.bbaw.de/en/research/ig

Also, here's proofs that a comprehensive collection is not what you want either. The equivalent for Greek inscriptions alone has over 50 volumes to the effect of in the ballpark of 150,000 entries. That doesn't include surviving words that aren't inscriptions.

Also, the reason actual academic-level books are dense and dry is because they're not made for someone interested in a topic, they're made for someone heavily invested in a topic, usually professionally so. That's also why a lot of them have bad explanations of things that aren't the key point. There's typically a lot of assumed knowledge if you are going into books of that level. A similar case is art for artists which, if you can persuade the brick to explain it again, is actually an interesting subject. It's pretty damn impenetrable to the layman, but it isn't running counter to its field's purpose, it just operates on a different level.
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No. 22633
>>22510
>It's also why I think the right wing is full of crying pussies because they never had the kind of systematic persecution on an official level that leftists have had throughout US history.

This is going to lead into a conversation about power dynamics, but to keep things brief, right-wingers operate under hard tyranny whereas leftists prefer soft tyranny. The deplatforming right-wingers are facing today have historical precedents in the 1930s. No one need look further than the case of Father Charles Coughlin for evidence.

To address your above point, it was sheer dumb luck on account of government incompetence and the death of a judge that American Fascists escaped persecution. George W. Christians of the Crusader White Shirts wasn't so lucky. Neither was William Dudley Pelley of the Silver Legion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Dennis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dudley_Pelley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin

>In 1944, [Lawrence Dennis] was indicted in a group that ranged from genuine progressives to pro-Nazi agitators, in a sedition prosecution under the Smith Act. The case ended in a mistrial after the judge died of a heart attack. Dennis co-authored with Maximilian John St. George (1885-1959) an account of the trial, which appeared in 1946 as A Trial on Trial: The Great Sedition Trial of 1944.
>Thirty prominent individuals were indicted in Washington, D.C., in July 1942, accused of violations of the Smith Act. After delays while the government amended the charges and struggled to construct its case, the trial, expanded to 33 defendants, began on April 17, 1944. The defendants were a heterogeneous group that held either isolationist or pro-fascist views. In the case of U.S. v. McWilliams, the prosecutor, O. John Rogge, hoped to prove they were Nazi propaganda agents by demonstrating the similarity between their statements and enemy propaganda. The weakness of the government's case, combined with the trial's slow progress in the face of disruption by the defendants, led the press to lose interest. A mistrial was declared on November 29, 1944, following the death of the trial judge, Edward C. Eicher. Defendant Lawrence Dennis mocked the affair by subtitling his account of the trial The Great Sedition Trial of 1944.
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No. 22638
42 kB, 618 × 518
974 kB
636 kB, 22 pages
>>22579
>literature on theme of involvement of native american tribes in Anglo-American war of 1812
Most historical material is focused on the native leader Tecumseh, and Canadians rate him much higher than we Americans do. Here's an article that summarizes his role in the conflict:

https://www.americanindianmagazine.org/story/tecumsehs-war-road-1812

>The bicentennial of the War of 1812 will be widely commemorated in Canada, but not so much in the United States. A good part of the credit, or blame, for this disparity, depending on your side of the border, belongs to the great Shawnee war leader Tecumseh.
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No. 22646
>>22633
lol not really.
>The deplatforming right-wingers are facing today have historical precedents in the 1930s. No one need look further than the case of Father Charles Coughlin for evidence.
The biggest difference is historical context. FFS over a hundred thousand innocent American citizens get shipped off to prison camps merely for being ethnically Japanese by ancestry. This in addition to the fact as you well know there was the Business Plot shortly before this time which was an attempted fascist overthrow of the government. In context, particularly at a time of not just any war but WWII of all things, it isn't entirely unreasonable to detain or at least inquire into the activities of those actively advocating the overthrow of the US government.

Re: Father Coughlin in particular
>Some members of the Catholic hierarchy may not have approved of Coughlin. The Vatican, the Apostolic Nunciature to the United States, and the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Cincinnati all wanted him silenced. They recognized that only Coughlin's superior, Bishop Michael Gallagher of Detroit, had the canonical authority to curb him, but Gallagher supported the "Radio Priest".[54] Owing to Gallagher's autonomy, and the prospect of the Coughlin problem leading to a schism, the Roman Catholic leadership took no action.[55]
It seems the Vatican itself wasn't pleased with him either. You will notice that he was tolerated right up until the point he was using his radio broadcasts to basically support America's enemies specifically Germany, Italy, and Japan.

The closest parallel is radio being a new medium, and the greatest irony about deplatforming being that this was only really enabled by largely right wing economic positions regarding not treating the internet as a public utility, including things like cancellation of Net Neutrality.

Note: leftists have always been fucked with directly by the government. In the case of deplatforming the government has absolutely fuckall to do with that and is pretty much entirely within the realm of private business owners including FB and Google kicking them out, not the government. Given that things have escalated to right wing terrorist attacks becoming routine and shit like the NZ shooter using places like FB to directly stream a terrorist attack, or people sharing and praising videos of him, can you actually blame them?

Like I said, it's a group of people who've been treated with kids gloves crying like pussies who've never really even experienced hardship or persecution in their lives. The double irony is said people not being routinely attacked by say the federal government (with your only exceptions shown here being a couple instances of wartime agitators for the enemy) and outright calling for persecution of others being made into national policy, who are themselves practically backed by the police (most of whom are themselves right wing), then trying to cry like bitches about how terribly persecuted they all are. They're not. They're backed at the institutional level by and large. The idea of institutional anti-right wing persecution is a complete myth and I find it interesting your main example is in WWII people acting in the interests of enemy nations essentially and you not including the group convicted of espionage and executed for it.
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No. 22655
>>22646
I'm not going to pretend that right-wingers any parallels to the likes of Sacco and Vanzetti, but to claim that they have faced no persecution is simply not true. Yes, they were agitating during a time of war, but so were the student movements in the '60s, the Weathermen and Symbionese Liberation Army.

>FFS over a hundred thousand innocent American citizens get shipped off to prison camps merely for being ethnically Japanese by ancestry.

The internment of the Japanese was a shameful and unnecessary affair, but entirely peripheral to this discussion.

>The closest parallel is radio being a new medium, and the greatest irony about deplatforming being that this was only really enabled by largely right wing economic positions regarding not treating the internet as a public utility, including things like cancellation of Net Neutrality.

No shit. The dissident right always gets fucked over by the mainstream right. This isn't new.

>who are themselves practically backed by the police (most of whom are themselves right wing), then trying to cry like bitches about how terribly persecuted they all are. They're not. They're backed at the institutional level by and large. The idea of institutional anti-right wing persecution is a complete myth

Citation needed. Show me a single Fascist group (must be Fascist or National Socialist) of any size either historical or contemporary that has billion dollar fortunes or any means of institutional support. Can you show me any police unit that has systemically aided and abetted Fascist groups? No, the actions of individual street officers with Fascist sympathies don't count. Aside from the Second Wave Klan, what other largely Fascist group was supported by the government?

>I find it interesting your main example is in WWII people acting in the interests of enemy nations essentially and you not including the group convicted of espionage and executed for it.

We're talking about people whose only crime was their words. There's a huge difference between people like Lawrence Dennis or Father Coughlin and people like the Rosenbergs.
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No. 22673
I never said "non" I specifically said
> it's a group of people who've been treated with kids gloves crying like pussies who've never really even experienced hardship or persecution in their lives.
And that is completely true. Like the Klan still has some actual political power and sympathizers for example. Most on the hard right are ultimately sympathetic to some of the worst impulses of government as well as policing agencies pretty much all of which are at minimum right leaning. The only times the extreme right gets in deep shit is when they're hoarding weapons and actively planning on violence, otherwise usually all of their resistance is coming from the public rather than at an institutional level. When I said "kids' gloves" I thought I was being clear that I meant some on the far right sometimes do get fucked with but even then they're handled way more softly than anyone else including leftists, such as discussed earlier the ALF and ELF being officially designated terrorist groups despite only engaging in property damage, not violence against people, unlike the Klan.

>Yes, they were agitating during a time of war, but so were the student movements in the '60s, the Weathermen and Symbionese Liberation Army.
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. The Weathermen were building bombs, for one thing, so it's a poor example. Secondly if you meant the Cold War, the argument could possibly be made (though really dubiously and it'd be a pretty Orwellian one to make), whereas I hope you didn't mean Vietnam, which was a tiny ass Southeeast Asian country with absolutely zero power projection capability that was simply having its own civil war at the time the US meddled in.

See the difference? Massive, global, worst war in human history with a known threat and agitator like Nazi Germany with spies and provocatuers everywhere, trying to get the Mexicans to wage war on us, with their ally Japan outright attacking us and killing Americans, vs...Vietnam.
>Citation needed. Show me a single Fascist group (must be Fascist or National Socialist)
lol Italian fascists and the Nazis aren't the only two hard right groups, and certainly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
which also had rumored ties to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_massacre
since for some strange reason right wingers really seem to like false flag terrorist attacks or outright terrorist attacks to further their agendas for some reason come to think of it I'm not even aware of a single leftist false flag attack but I'm aware of tons of right wing ones, and dozens of other terrorist acts. Note the sheer amount of institutional support there.

I'd also like to point out you clearly probably meant a Western or even US-centric view of things though it should be noted how much this has been true of other countries as well often with support of US groups and interests (since we seem to specifically be discussing US treatment).

So that right there between Klan and P2 is millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars in possibly financing and political support. The far left has...zilch. Possibly depending on your definition of "far" you might be able to count on a few Hollywood celebrities and possibly others generally offering support to groups like idk PETA or something (which isn't even a far left group itself). And in some cases, the fascist groups literally are the government itself, and only have failed to totally centralize power in the US due largely to how our government is structured itself, so they typically try to work through NGOs and think tanks as more moderate fronts.

>We're talking about people whose only crime was their words. There's a huge difference between people like Lawrence Dennis or Father Coughlin and people like the Rosenbergs.
The Rosenbergs aren't leftist activists, they were fucking traitors who committed out of all possible crimes of treason quite possibly the worst one in history. I'm not sure how I feel about executing people for treason rather than up to life in prison, but if anyone deserved it, it was them for passing on the hydrogen bomb to one of our rivals, which is similar to some of how I'm so utterly pissed with Israel (not just bombing our ships but selling our mil tech to China we should have cut ties to that fucking regime entirely).

Again, do you see? Rosenbergs committed actual treason and passed on the highest of top military secrets to the enemy/belligerent rival, and were executed for it. Coughlin was sent to prison for agitating for the enemy during a time of war, and he was never sent to prison
>Meanwhile, Biddle was also exploring the possibility of bringing an indictment against Coughlin for sedition as a possible "last resort".[62] Hoping to avoid such a potentially sensational and divisive sedition trial, Biddle arranged to end the publication of Social Justice itself. First Biddle had a meeting with banker Leo Crowley, another Roosevelt political appointee and friend of Bishop Edward Aloysius Mooney of Detroit, Bishop Gallagher's successor. Crowley relayed Biddle's message to Mooney that the government was willing to "deal with Coughlin in a restrained manner if he [Mooney] would order Coughlin to cease his public activities."[63] Consequently, on May 1, Bishop Mooney ordered Coughlin to stop his political activities and to confine himself to his duties as a parish priest, warning of potentially removing his priestly faculties if he refused. Coughlin complied and was allowed to remain the pastor of the Shrine of the Little Flower. The pending hearing before the Postmaster General, which had been scheduled to take place three days later, was cancelled as it was no longer necessary. Although forced to end his public career, Coughlin served as parish pastor until retiring in 1966.
Like I said, kids' gloves. All that happened in the case of Coughlin was he was told to knock it the hell off while we were fighting a war and to not openly use the airways to broadcast what could be construed as enemy propaganda, if he would please. He was not sent to prison, and was simply forced to cancel his program.

It should also be pointed out
>Having gained a reputation as an outspoken anti-communist, in July 1930 Coughlin was given star billing as a witness before the House Un-American Activities Committee.[12]
That is, again, at the institutional level.

Another great example of kids' gloves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff
If any leftist ever even thought about pulling that shit they'd get gunned down immediatelynot that I am fundamentally opposed to the American public using armed resistance if necessary against police and the federal government...

So yeah. It's not even comparable. The one has actual sympathies from numerous people and groups in the United States and has for quite awhile, which as I mentioned before
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
Just imagine what would have happened if say a Socialist had proposed a thing like that. Rather than no prosecutions they'd have been hanged.

The whole thing with the left in this country in particular to begin with is coming from a place of vast disenfranchisement. Obviously, if you've got a group who either wants to maintain the status quo or outright disenfranchise them even more than they're currently allowed it tells you something about the actual political soul behind the two groups and the amount of persecution they actually represent, so yeah, I find the whole premise of your argument ridiculous. And so far as the more tepid Republicans are concerned, it basically boils down to "don't call them niggers or rant about Jews publicly in polite company." That is to say, don't embarrass us with how we really think while we're trying to make money and put on a big show for the public, regardless of how much they agree with you behind closed doors.
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No. 22679
>>22673
The Klan has multimillions? A highly fragmented organization with perhaps no more than 4000 identified members, several of who are informants? PROOFS?
https://www.thesocialcontract.com/answering_our_critics/art2000nov.html

Not that guy, but even I find that hard to believe.
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No. 22681
>>22673
>I'd also like to point out you clearly probably meant a Western or even US-centric view of things though it should be noted how much this has been true of other countries as well often with support of US groups and interests (since we seem to specifically be discussing US treatment).

Indeed, we are discussing the United States. Italy didn't undergo the intense denazification period Germany did, so it's no surprise Fascism still has some currency over there. Neither here nor there. We are speaking to each other as Americans.

I will say the situation for the American far-right is much better than the far-right for other Western nations especially those in the Anglosphere. Conversely, it's much less forgiving to leftists here than other Western nations. That much we agree, but still far from ideal for both if you ask me. Casual hostility towards Communism is endemic among Boomers of all stripes, but I argue that could easily change in a few years especially as the culture continues to embrace casual hostility towards whiteness and heteronormativity in the name of equality, a value shared by leftists of all stripes. If radical leftism can be co-opted and mass marketed as something edgy and fashionable by woke capitalism, it will.

You've previously mentioned you're from somewhere in the Southwest. Perhaps Texas, New Mexico or Arizona. I can only assume your deeply entrenched hatred for right-wing politics came from exposure to its worst elements in the cultural climate favoring policies you believe to be destructive and/or casual acceptance of such political realities. I have no idea the circumstances with which you grew up, but only recollections from posts I believe to be yours. If you would like to elaborate on this, be my guest. You are uniquely qualified to discuss your own experiences.

>Possibly depending on your definition of "far" you might be able to count on a few Hollywood celebrities and possibly others generally offering support to groups like idk PETA or something (which isn't even a far left group itself).

Hollyweird attracts a whole gamut of loons from all walks of life, but by and large, they're bourgeois liberals in practice if not in theory. Sure, there are those interested in radical leftists, but they aren't giving up their life of luxury for the people. Money is just one of many ways to support left-wing causes. Several prominent celebrities were involved in Occupy Wall Street. Of course, that whole thing imploded dramatically and pretty soon you had just about everyone claiming to be part of Occupy, but that's neither here nor there.

PeTA is adjacent to many radical leftists like Rod Coronado, but isn't inherently a leftist organization. You could interpret them as a leftist organization since they wish to apply egalitarianism to non-humans, but that's another discussion entirely.

Don't forget a huge number of celebrities openly promote the Human Rights Campaign. Of course, that organization was deeply divided against itself and had serious internal issues during the 2016 election following HRC leaders' collective endorsement of Hillary Clinton. Again, another discussion.

You also have crass garbage like FCKH8 which I believe Jane Lynch of Glee fame endorsed, but still need to check.

If I can be arsed to go through more of the various movements and causes celebrities support, I will, but for now, I'm just going to come up with what I know immediately. Entirely peripheral to this discussion. No one is going to invest in the revolutionary left because woke capitalism has proven to be a much more promising return on investment for social change and people monetarily committed to such causes.

>If any leftist ever even thought about pulling that shit they'd get gunned down immediately

Surprised you bring up the Bundy Ranch standoff, but not Ruby Ridge. You're probably old enough to remember that case.

For a more overt example of a radical right-winger singlehandedly taking on the government, you can also look at Gordon Kahl. In that case, a tax resister and sovereign citizen lunatic got into two shootouts with law enforcement.

>And so far as the more tepid Republicans are concerned, it basically boils down to "don't call them niggers or rant about Jews publicly in polite company." That is to say, don't embarrass us with how we really think while we're trying to make money and put on a big show for the public, regardless of how much they agree with you behind closed doors.

Are you seriously telling me the Republican Party is secretly as racist as the alt-right? That's not remotely true. The Beltway Right is deathly afraid of being even in the same room as someone who's been accused of racism. Ronald Reagan expressly repudiated the Ku Klux Klan and David Duke. People like Jeb go out of their way to signal how "not racist" they are and bristle at anyone with opinions that could even be interpreted as unkind to non-whites. Then you have shitbags from Conservatism Inc. like Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck or Dinesh D'Souza who spout dumb memes like DR3 (Democrats R da REAL RACISTZ). Of course, they love to shit on Muslims and have been given the greenlight to do so from people in the ADL or AIPAC, but that's neither here nor there. Look at how they elevate kooks like Ben Carson or grifters like Candace Owens just because they're black. The few decent people like Thomas Sowell who put in the intellectual work to support Libertarian and Republican causes are championed by practically everyone mainstream right-winger. Sure, the Beltway Right supports policies that ultimately end up denying welfare to poor blacks, but it's out of a sincere belief they're helping them. You probably already know this, but for everyone else, you have to understand Neoconservatism to understand the current Republican Party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJNJx56rh2k

As to Father Coughlin, he was neutered politically after his radio show was shutdown and forced into retirement. Certainly a better fate than imprisonment or death seeing that he could practice his faith and tend to his local flock, but he was effectively removed from politics. Isn't that disenfranchisement in its own right? He also wasn't a major player in the House Un-American Activities when it started to effectively exercise its weight in Hollywood.

As to the so-called "Business Plot", nothing ever came of it.
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No. 22844
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How common is FAS in CIS countries?
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No. 22851
>>22844
Less common than imageboard users will tell you. Although it's not rare and more widespread than anywhere else. In cis countries common opinion is that swallows, fat finns, problems with nose, skin and anything visible is fetal alcohol syndrome. Because it's offensive
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No. 22857
>>22844
Very historical question.
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No. 23452
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Facial reconstuction of the "Dead of Niederpöring".

2015 during escavations near the today Bavarian village Niederpöring the skeleton of a woman who lived 7000 years ago was found. She wore a bonnet decorated with over 400 snail shells. Her age a the time of death could be determined as about 50 years old. The woman was a member of the neolithic Western Linear Pottery culture, the first European farming people , and she is considered as belonging to a privileged stratum of this society.

DNA-analysis of tooth material showed that she was a very close relative to people living in Anatolia at the same time but not to
modern Europeans. Skin color and eye color could also be determinded by DNA analysis. Strontium isotope analysis proves that she grew up and lived all her life in the region where she was buried, her people migrated over the Balkans and lived in the region for hundreds of years without mixing with the native hunter gatherers.

Reconstruction:

The skull was 3D-CT scanned, and the digitalized data was used to 3D print a 1:1 replica of the skull. This replica was then used for a facial reconstruction according to modern methods known from criminology. Muscles and other tissue were applied in layers with clay according to the proposed age of the person and the given bone structure. The completed medell was then casted in silicone rubber. The skin colour was applied with Airbrush and real human hair was implanted into the rubber-skin. The hair dress was made by a profdessional hairstylist according
to the utensils that were found on her skull (bonnet & combs)

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/kuenzing-museum-quintana-steinzeit-archaeologie-1.4461047

https://www.welt.de/geschichte/article194016917/Jungsteinzeit-So-sah-eine-privilegierte-Frau-vor-7000-Jahren-aus.html

https://www.landkreis-deggendorf.de/aktuelles/aus-dem-landkreis/die-tote-von-niederpoering/
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No. 23617
>>23452
she was probably a hottie during her youth.
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No. 23636
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>>23617

Stonehenge man from about the same timeline would have been a suitable husband for the younger version of her, I guess.
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No. 23648
>>22374
>bitching about antifa among American poltards makes as much sense as bitching about the Pirate Partei.

If you're into alternative or extreme music (which RAC Bernd clearly is), then Antifa are a huge problem. It makes sense why he would complain about them.
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No. 23649
>>23648
They aren't though. It's largely a boogeyman that doesnt even exist in reality and RAC can listen to his atrociously bad music without being bothered by anybody. The only reason to bring it up is people with a huge victim complex needing even more excuses to feel like a victim.
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No. 23652
>>23649
If you mean in the privacy of RAC Bernd's own home, then yes, he is free to post and discuss such music. He's also free to buy such music without anyone giving him grief. That wasn't the point.

You obviously don't care about extreme music (after all, you are a Christian, I wouldn't expect anything less from you), but to bring you up to speed, Antifa have been a menace in getting Black Metal shows canceled. Just look at the wave of Black Metal shows that got cancelled between 2016 to today as well as the rampant deplatforming they've spearheaded:
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/antifa-attack-police-and-shutdown-messe-des-morts/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/montreal-police-condone-antifa-attack/
http://www.deathmetal.org/article/antifa-chases-nsbm-tinged-band-horna-across-the-united-states/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/antifa-shuts-down-taake-the-human-troll-band/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/metalsucks-whines-about-hells-headbangers/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/iron-bonehead-triggers-witchhunt-by-portland-maoists/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/usbm-cornerstone-elegy-records-closes-its-doors/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/paypal-no-platforms-moribund-records-for-satanic-beliefs/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/metalgate-nyogthaeblisz-excluded-from-maryland-show-for-racism/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/metalgate-spotify-proscribes-politically-incorrect-metal-bands/
http://www.deathmetal.org/news/singapore-gets-in-on-the-hate-crime-crusade-against-heavy-metal/

From all the posts I've seen between you and him, I get the feeling you are still firmly committed to radical leftist causes which explains why your anti-right-wing partisanship has clouded your judgement. You seem disappointed that most western left-wing movements have been coopted by woke capital which frustrates you because they'll no longer be revolutionary. As much as I don't expect sympathy from you, stop acting like Antifa aren't a huge pain in the ass.
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No. 23654 Kontra
>>23652
Perhaps such things and terms are REALLY a thing on the americas. But if not...gosh, are you guys retarded, I must say.
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No. 23658
>>23652
Why are you talking about yourself in third person?
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No. 23692
>>23652
>Said Montreal police constable Benoît Boisselle about the Communist antifascist terrorists who attacked the the police protecting the Messe des Morts festival where Graveland was scheduled to play. The Antifa thugs were clearly supported not only by the communist Industrial Workers of the World union but by the local Montreal city government too. Three of the perpetrators identities are known: recidivist junkie and anti-Semite Katie Nelson, Éric Sédition (a card-carrying member of the IWW), and Alexandre Bouleric (member of the Canadian federal parliament from a district in Montreal). All walk free to terrorize again.

>The Canadian government of social justice warrior Justin Trudeau and the German government of General Secretary Merkel clandestinely supports the leftist attempts
Yeah I'm done I'm not reading any more of this bullshit. How about actually giving us some unbiased sources on this? The idea that antifa are both a "real menace" and not just an imaginary one, and that the cops of all people are on their side, is exactly the kind of crazy bullshit I meant. It's even harder for me to take a bunch of middle class white kids crying like pussies about their victim complex because theres allegedly a few hooligans. Know what we used to call that? A fucking mosh pit.
>you're a Christian
>you dont listen to extreme music
And whatever this other garbage is supposed to mean although I'm unsure what you even mean by "extreme" music. You mean like metal extreme? Or do you mean as in extremists, like Prussian Blue? In which case you're right idgaf if they get the shit beat out of them. Talk shit, get hit. If you mean extremists crying like bitches yeah it makes me respect them so much less because again, metal concerts at least back in the day had mosh pits. People actually getting injured moshing was a thing. The way you are complaining reminds me of these $200 pre torn jeans faggots I absolutely can't stand. Obviously a lot of this is from being a lower class white guy so I have little patience for this type of crap.

As for "extreme" if you meant like, shock rock, I listened to Marilyn Manson while he was still being protested dude. Part of why I also respect Brian Warner so much to begin with is his ability to be very eloquent and generally well spoken about his views. I also really doubt antifa which isnt even a real big thing to begin with has any kind of institutional backing Manson's opponents had although to be fair that's probably the sort of thing that gave him such an edgy appeal to begin with.

>>23654
It's actually not. If you listen to a bunch of hysterics and lies from poltards they will tell you Soros is singlehandedly destroying white people and antifa is some big monolithic organization and anyone who thought Trump was a Zionist neocon moron must be paid by CTR and on and on. This is because they are mentally incapable of organizing themselves by providing anything like a coherent argument as opposed to shitposting meaningless buzzwords at you and accusing anyone who disagrees of being part of one monolithic conspiracy or another. Antifa merely fulfils that same functional role to them. The bigger irony is these guys swallow this bs despite having no experience of anything and just taking roleplaying shitposts online at face value yet somehow seeming to believe all these are real things. It's the same mentality as this guy who brought his AR to Comet's Pizza. What was perhaps the funniest thing about all that is most of their "clues" were literally just things they themselves were guilty of by being part of vierkanal, like the focus on "cheese pizza" to begin with. Somehow this irony was lost on them. Meanwhile the guy was surprised to find no children locked in cages in a basement that didn't exist and the moment he said how retarded it was they immediately started accusing him of being a crisis actor with equally flimsy evidence as every other retarded bullshit they swindle teenage boys with.

That is the same case with antifa. I have literally never seen or met any "antifa" people. I have met a few who'd sympathize with such a thing because they're part of the broader "sjw" idpol bullshit, and they're neither common nor remotely organized. There is no such thing as any central committee of antifa, they have no funding, and they largely have no support, not even among that many leftists, being more like a bunch of punk rock kids and hooligans flipping over trash cans. We have a bigger problem with sports fans rioting after their team wins or loses than antifa I shit you not.