/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

Thread 39680 is locked. No replies can be posted.


No. 39680 Lock Systemkontra
884 kB, 1920 × 1080
Don't strategy videogames promote communism? They're basically games in which the society is totalitarian, you the player control every action of the units, but most importantly you also have total control of the economy. You control what is built, what is researched, control all industry, direct economic policy in more complex games, and all resources get back to you. So don't people who play these games for a long time walk away with a warped perception of the economy, thinking that it's a command economy, rather than a capitalist one? There really is no private ownership, capital or investment of capital in these games, you as the player have everything and control everything. It's implied there's some social stratification based on units' roles but this stratification exists in communist societies as well.
>>
No. 39682 Kontra
Video Gayms is aylien conspiracy to control our minds via reptilian jews and distrct people from searching bigfoot.
>>
No. 39684 Kontra
Read the first two sentences and you know it's a flawed argument with bad propositions to begin with.
And then imagine how this thread would probably skyrocket on kohl.

t. shitpost scanning unit
>>
No. 39685
>>39684
Where's the flaw?
>>
No. 39686 Kontra
>>39684
One sentence is enough to see that this is absurd pol-tier idiotism.
>>
No. 39687 Kontra
>>39685
Are you serious? You must be pol minded quite a bit to not see how biased (and this argumentatively misleading) your propositions are.
You are talking about authoritarianism which is to be found in so called capitalist and former communist societies alike.
So your propositions are just bad and biased pol shit
>>
No. 39691
>>39686
It's somewhat stupid but not for the reasons you are proposing. I've become unironically sympathetic to Socialism over the past year after previously supporting mostly libertarian candidates but that had nothing to do with the games themselves and everything to do with dealing with Valve and the gaming industry alongside my work showing me point blank the weakness and shittiness and overall anti-consumerism even structurally inherent to Capitalism, and now with coronavirus it's been proven to me that ancapistan is one of the worst shittiest systems imaginable.

You guys are forgetting that the only people who are ancaps and not rich are all gamers. The vast majority of ancaps online are vidya players which refutes OPs point.

Instead I'd like to point out how stupid it is in game because almost every space or scifi or whatever game now uses corporations. Corps won't colonize space. Stardock is literally run by borderline ancap libertarians. I bitched about this on their forums because they made another shitty DLC with galactic governments and decided to include Objectivism as an end state but included no Communist galactic governments, which is stupid and irritating for multiple reasons including but not limited to OPs premise, namely that every 4x or RTS or ant strategy game is by default a command economy so outright excluding a command economy galactic government while also having Objectivism manages to also be completely stupid on a meta level as well as in universe and IRL.

I think that at best it would also show the pitfalls of Communism, namely that if someone is incompetent or asleep at the wheel it fucks your entire game. But for purposes of OPs argument I'll allow it as one could argue I was primed to be more receptive to Socialism having spent a couple decades playing city sims and 4x games, particularly Tropico. Going full on Socialist paradise was my default mode in that game but arguably that's more for the fact that being a prosperous and openly democratic Socialist leader is literally easy mode and the best way to go about things in that game, while being a despotic Capitalist with secret police, executions, no elections etc virtually guaranteed a revolt unless you cried for Americs to give you aid while setting up military bases to prevent
Oh. Hmmm.
>>
No. 39694
>>39691
>Corps won't colonize space.
Hm, why not? If there's a potential profit, there would be no reason for a powerful enough corp not to establish colonies. If a company also has its own armed forces or employs PMCs, then it becomes a quasi-nation, and it's not really crazy to think that a nation could aim for expansion.

>Stardock is literally run by borderline ancap libertarians.
Heh, and by that logic Paradox is run by communists and fascists? Because in Vicky II liberal parties are pretty much the shittiest ones, mostly because they prefer laissez-faire capitalism which IMO sucks ass in that game, so it's better either to be conservative/fascist or go to the other extreme and become socialist/communist. But the absolute worst kind of movement there is anarcho-liberalism (the closest the game has to ancaps) – those fuckers don't let you do anything about your country: no building, no reforms, no nothing. Someone at Paradox seriously hates libertarians. XDDDDDD
>>
No. 39696 Kontra
It's true, I play strategy games and I found myself enlisted in a Bolshevik revolutionary group.
>>
No. 39698 Kontra
>>39694
This. You want a totalitarian government in games because it ensures that you can control everything, and player choice and constant player engagement lends itself to most fun. (Not to mention that losing because an AI of a subsystem is bad or because of RNG isn't fun most of the time.)
Imagine if you had to incentivise stone mining in AoE2 by giving subsidies to workers who mine stones. It'd be madness, cumbersome and retarded.
>>
No. 39699
844 kB, 783 × 7025
>>39694
>in Vicky II liberal parties are pretty much the shittiest ones, mostly because they prefer laissez-faire capitalism which IMO sucks ass in that game
100%. Capitalists are nice to have but are retards who do not know what is best for a country (not building the needed factories, not considering RGO location when building factories, not expanding the right factories, closing necessary factories, etc). On the other hand, Communist governments are a chore to play due to the micromanagement.

Absolute Monarchy is the best and most adaptable government form in the game (specifically HM's Government because you are allowed to pick any party). Presidential dictatorships are also good. Fascism is cool but comes too late in the game and is rarely ever used.
More democratic forms of government are much better for smaller nations than larger ones as it much is easier to change the government through elections and the immigration bonuses are extremely helpful.
>>
No. 39700
>>39687
Way to completely miss the point, you butthurt Turkish retard.
>>
No. 39701 Kontra
>>39700
You pointed out nothing and resume to name calling. Phew, I'm impressed.

t. https://bit.ly/2xrQEHW
>>
No. 39702
>>39691
What the hell are you talking about? All I was saying is that it nudges the player's mindset in a subtle but meaningful way. If you think that's overly simplistic look at Trump's voters.
>>
No. 39703
>>39701
But that describes exactly what you did, Mehmet.
>>
No. 39705 Kontra
>>39703
No, I told you that you are talking about authoritarianism which is not exclusive to communism but capitalism as well. Nearly the whole world is succumbing to a capitalist economy atm and yet we have still have (proto) dictatorships blossoming or still being intact. Communism and capitalism are ideas that are and have been realized differently throughout history.
>>
No. 39707
>>39705
Ownership.
>>
No. 39708 Kontra
>>39707
If the ownership is solely a thing of the state that does not mean that it is totalitarian society...
>>
No. 39709
>>39705
Also, call it what you like, the point was the games prime the player to think in terms of a command economy.
>>
No. 39710
>>39708
Is your whole purpose just to argue and miss the point? Get a life.
>>
No. 39711 Kontra
>>39710
>Don't strategy videogames promote communism? They're basically games in which the society is totalitarian

is what you said in your intial post. Communism = totalitarian is the logic here. Pretty much pol knowledge which I pointed out is wrong. Notice how I did not deny that there have been socialist or (proto) communist countries which were ruled by one person, Stalin and Mao are examples ofc and usually are refered to as Stalinism and Maoism.
Yeah your branding was wrong, but saying "call it what you want" now is basically giving a shit about concepts which are crucial for communication. Especially when it is getting more abstract and political. And you wonder why your lazy posting is making problems.
>>
No. 39713
>>39711
I don't care. Go infect some other thread with your idiocy, thanks
>>
No. 39714
>>39711
>Communism = totalitarian is the logic here.

Lmfao please point me out a communist society that was not totalitarian
>>
No. 39717 Kontra
OP is a retard but it does seem like ML and Maoist guys like Paradox games
>>
No. 39718
>>39698
I dunno, I think Dwarf Fortress puts an interesting spin on this, in that individual dwarves have personalities, desires, moods, etc, and you don't control anything directly, only by sending orders. There is a need to optimize the efficiency of the system of the fort, but it is in the service of a larger overarching goal (once out of the survival stage). The end goal is completely arbitrary, and I would even say "artistic" in meaning. It makes no "economic" sense, it is only done in pursuit of fulfillment and meaning.

The problem with a "capitalist/liberal strategy game" is not that it would interfere with player agency, but that it would lack that kind of "goal" or "meaning". The hierarchy of the system would be flat, where each individual unit strives to fulfill their own needs, resulting in efficiency, but to what end would the whole system exist, beyond perpetual expansion/survival? I think funnily enough this mirrors the erosion of a feeling of zeitgeist under capitalism, where it seems like there is no "meaning" or ideological purpose to the system. When was the last time humanity united towards some kind of arbitrary, idealistic goal? The space race?

It's also interesting to think that a few of the top richest people in the world are now playing dwarf fortress IRL, in that they have accumulated enough wealth to try and fulfill some kind of arbitrary megaproject that can only be done if centrally managed by a powerful individual. Some send automobiles to space, others try to create a simulated virtual reality dystopia.
>>
No. 39719
>>39717
Most people with extremist ideologies like Paradox games.
They allow you to live out your "what if" ideological/nationalistic power fantasies.

>>39718
I think games like DF are more like chemistry experiments. You mix and match a few chemicals together and you observe the progress of the reaction and then the eventual outcome.
DF is fun because it's a giant set of loosely interconnected systems that interact with one another in unexpected ways. Not even the developer knows what might happen, because it has too many variables.
>>
No. 39720
>>39714
We are not talking about a communist society but communism, retard. Have you ever seen a capitalism that lets everybody benefit? Because the market is free (no, it's not equal), the wealth of nations, you know. Poltards will be the loudest to scream we are not liviing in a democracy. Well what will that mean in the first place? There is not DEMOCRACY and that is it, the realization is something very different from ideas and concepts
We are discussing ideas and concepts which are differently realized, as I mentioned before. Concepts do not equal reality. You got that now?

Since you contrasted both in a lazy manner in the OP, you are just a stupid pol tard, or if you are not, you are schooled on imagebaords, when it comes to political theory which is likewise a pretty bad base for discussing things.
>>
No. 39721 Kontra
>>39717
Generally, I'd say people with more "out there" political preferences are drawn towards these types of games because they can LARP and live out their fantasy of ideological purity in a place without consequences. These types of games are also popular with particular people on the right. It is just that Paradox disavows more extreme right wing ideology, and that this ideology is less tolerated by mainstream opinion on the internet than the more extreme left, so there is a greater exposure to the left wing stuff. Or, it could just anecdotal evidence tied to the online communities you visit.
>>
No. 39722 Kontra
*Oh there vidya game where you need control units and build stuff
I think it's gommunism*

Crap, why there is disscutions about that? Why people like to bring this shit and disscus this baby tier pseudo-politics? It's like guy from middle school first discovered what politics is - and this is how actually majority of politics-disscutions happen over internet and espessialy on imageboards.
>>
No. 39723 Kontra
>>39720
It's same fucking finn that just shitpost about "gypsies" or whatever. He is 15yo from this cancerous finnish board where they just shitposting.
>>
No. 39724
>>39703
>>39700
Wow, I was thinking already this day would be free from bans since yesterday.
>>
No. 39726 Kontra
>>39723
I have the same thought, yet I will not just call him out but try to reveal how badly the OP is constructed. I know it's a waste of time, so I hope the mod will clean the mess up. There you have it, the mods are doing the dirty work in Ernstunism. sighs