/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

Currently at Radio Ernstiwan:


Hail Odin! by Christenklatscher666

M3U - XSPF


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No. 39807
84 kB, 960 × 1278
has Ernst enough prepp ?
>>
No. 39810
53 kB, 828 × 744
I have like 6 or 7 cans of canned food.
That's more than usual.
>>
No. 39811 Kontra
I need some magical script that hides "meme happening virus" threads and posts
>>
No. 39816
I plan to be somehow, not because I believe in a full blown apocalypse, but because the net benefice from being ready to some degree of emergency is evident to me. My end goal anyway is to be at least partially autonomous in food and energy, so even If I don't identify as a pepper or survivalist I'll still share a common ground with them. Some weeks worth of food and water, a first health kit and associated training, a way to communicate without electricity, such things.
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No. 39818
I have food and hygiene stuff stocked for two weeks, like every government recommends. I have no water stocked, but I am no prepper anyway.
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No. 39821
336 kB, 838 × 1474
>>39818
>I have food and hygiene stuff stocked for two weeks

lol preppernoob detected, just with my belly I can do 4 weeks without food and would still be a well-built man.
>>
No. 39823 Kontra
>>39821
Henry VIII's feet suffered from tissue necrosis because he was so sedentary and fat
>>
No. 39824
>>39823
ah, thanks, I didn't know that overly well known fact and I can't use wikipedia, weisenheimer.
>>
No. 39834
>>39821
Well I can do this too. But with the food I can go two weeks more.
>>
No. 39835 Kontra
247 kB, 476 × 678
I'm an adult male and my neighbours don't pose much of a threat.
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No. 39857
32 kB, 645 × 773
>>39834
>Well I can do this too.

You sir, are a good man.
>>
No. 39863
7,5 MB, 640 × 360, 1:32
>>39807
>has Ernst enough prepp ?

Enough prepp Ernst has. But not enough pepp, what really distresses Ernst.
>>
No. 39888
2,4 MB, 2976 × 3968
I bought a load of canned goods about 4 weeks ago in prep for the virus hitting Ireland (what's in the pic x4, roughly).

I also have books like the encyclopedia of country living, the boy scout handbook and the SAS survival guide.

I also have emergency medical shit, medkits and a small survival kit for fishing / compass / firelighting, a 55lb compound bow and seeds for growing vegetables.

Got it all over the years for cheap, it's not enough to live off grid, but it's a start.
>>
No. 39891
>>39888
Will get those books, nice references. I know about the SAS book, if anything that's a fun thing to read
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No. 39905
>>39818
Lol @ when my recommendation to my family two months ago is now "what every government recommends" apparently. Also what I would actually recommend is people having a surplus of one whole month to roughly get by without having to exit your home. Then, if you think it is safe enough to do so restock every couple of weeks just so that you've got enough surplus stored to have a supply buffer zone to get by a solid fortnight at all times without having to draw down your added supplies.

Me personally my main issue is and always has been having actual access to money. Were it not for that I would've paid rent up to two months in advance and stockpiled at least a solid couple of months worth of dry storage types of supplies and a month worth of semi-perishable food stores along with whatever other supplies. As it stands I can only get by without going grocery shopping for another week or two tops without munching through the last dregs of my food.

This will actually turn out to be a good thing because my overall grocery bill should be flatlined whenever it's safe to come back out into the Zone.
>>
No. 39907
>>39905
>is now "what every government recommends" apparently
Not now. It is since ever. At least that is what German and Swiss government is recommending for decades. For my grandparents it was a given anyway to relay on filled food cellar. Somehow this tradition was last in my parents generation and is not present in my generation as well.
>>
No. 39908
Oh and a very big reminder just in the severely off chance any ernst who has them hasn't considered this yet:
Did you make sure to stock up on at least as much food and other supplies for your pets?

Actually one of the earliest things I grabbed was vacation pet food tablets for my fish in case I needed to go to hospital or suddenly disappear or somehow be blocked from a resupply for a solid couple of weeks. Of course, if I actually needed to get hospitalized they could be fucked since people often don't get discharged for 3-4 weeks but, they're fish, which means that not only can they go awhile without being fed but that most of them except maybe a few catfish should be fine especially nibbling on algae. I'm pretty sure I've got mostly everybody set up in such a way that the only thing needed is an automatic dimmer switch or something otherwise they all should be capable of autonomous survival for two weeks and up to a month.

Obviously anybody who has a pet cat or dog is going to have much different problems, but at the same time they can eat human food and it's easier to find someone to take care of them in an emergency. Pretty sure pet rodents can be supplied easily to deal with your absence a fortnight, as well as pirds, provided they have water. Not too sure about reptiles. Tarantulafags/Australians should be fine for over a month without being pestered easily.

>>39888
>compound bow
This is the one thing completely absent in my kit and any arms I did have aren't here for the most part. Being an American without a gun is making me nervous. All the gun stores were stripped along with most ammo. What I should do is just find someone to ship me a high poundage crossbow.
>>
No. 39909
>>39907
>For my grandparents it was a given anyway to relay on filled food cellar

It's the war generation obviously, my grandparents also had a cellar with pickled food or canned shit. Just like my grandma made sure at any given time I eat proper and well. I sometimes feel like in my family, family is understood as a system of provision at first. Dunno what the genral account on it might be, but feels have not been so prominent, even tho I could not say I did not receive love etc. but a certain distance is there when I compare it to other families. Yet (even at least basic) provision was never questioned at any time.
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No. 39915
>>39908
It is spring. Cat will just do fine without you. Just make sure to kick it out of the house as long you are hospitalized.

>>39909
I think I can relate to that feel, but I find it beautiful. It shows caring. A generation of woman that was not afraid to fill in a important role in the family. A central creasing mechanism that keeps all the cogs in the family machine going.
>>
No. 39922
it's funny how the guys everyone made fun of for storing 28 months worth of canned beans in their cellar turned out to be right
>>
No. 39925 Kontra
>>39922
They're still wrong and if you're starting to horde now then you're an arsehole who I hope gets Covid-19. The current problem is panic-buyers overwhelming logistics and who, at the moment, have started filling bins up with mouldy bread.
>>
No. 39928
>>39925
>They're still wrong

A patently incorrect position to take. Having a large store of nonperishable goods in place before the crisis hit would of course be preferable. Every trip to the grocery store is another opportunity to become infected.

>if you're starting to horde now then you're an arsehole who I hope gets Covid-19

At no point did I suggest as much, unless you've parsed my post in the least charitable manner possible. I'm not saying that people should go out and start hoarding now; I'm saying those who "prepped" (i.e., at a time antedating the pandemic) by stocking up on essentials are presently in a better place for it.
>>
No. 39931
>>39928
They're still not right. Come back when we're Venezuela tier.
>>
No. 39950
45 kB, 784 × 594
>>39925
I know one in UK which only had molded bread to buy one night. It's absolutely horrible. Dammit it's not like in pic!
>>
No. 39951
>>39925
Only two ppl mate those with clean asses and those who with dirty asses.
>>
No. 39952
>>39928
>Having a large store of nonperishable goods in place before the crisis hit would of course be preferable.

No, you do something proper with the money rather than fritter it away on nonsense. If you're realistically in some sort of danger from the virus you get food delivered or otherwise go when it's not busy.

>>39950
Sounds impossible - the bread is flying off the shelves. Last week I had to buy that fancy artisan bread and got crumbs everywhere from slicing it, this week I have the mass produced factory stuff that is impossible to toast properly.

I shouldn't shop where I live.

>20p sale price on soup

It's fun to look at prices in the past sometimes. A standard tin of Heinz costs less than £1 in 2020 which, despite being 4x more (AH! AH! AH!) isn't all that bad inflation for 36 years - even when you consider low wage growth in the 00s. Certainly better than the butter mafia.
>>
No. 39955
>>39952
I am not that >>39928 american.
Even before the coronavirus started, I've always thought it was a good idea to buy more food at one time and buy at less frequent intervals than to "buy as you eat".
I find this more convenient as I have to go to the store less often (coronavirus did not change my behaviour, I shopped like this before).
It is also a more robust way of shopping; unexpected events such as tornadoes or blizzards are partially mitigated.
>>
No. 39964
>>39807
I prepped by buying some stuff to boost the immune system like ginger, garlic, sardines (vitamin D), vitamin supply, zinc and some cans of beans and lentiles, also rice, pasta, tomato concentrate, olive oil, some musli and oatmeal overall about 25 kg for about 60€
>>39928
Here shops are still full. There is enough of everything.
>>
No. 39965
>>39952
I don't think we had anything near German settis but it was pretty much just always understand as normal that you have a lot of pickled, canned, and dry good food in storage. I mean maybe not a lot a lot, but still a decent enough quantity. Why the hell wouldn't you? If it's jarred or canned it's not like it's going to go bad. Tight on a budget at some point in the future? Okay great now I suddenly don't have to buy food for a good week or two extra because I have stuff that keeps for years.
>fritter away on nonsense
Food isn't nonsense. In fact it is such the diametrical opposite to frittering money away on nonsense I cannot think of even one single thing that is the more apt definition of not frittering money away on nonsense. Like what the hell else are you even spending money on you think isn't nonsense, dragon dildos?

>>39964
We've only just now in the past week or so loosely returned to having normal stocks. I'm guessing that all the last people who needed anything or panic buying already got what they wanted. I still didn't get my preferred kind of tortilla though but oh well. Less than two dollars on tortillas, a few bucks on a bag of shredded cheese, and some 86 cent cans of baked beans and I've got perfectly comfortable lazy trash food that's cheap, highly edible, and probably better for me than what I normally eat. Well minus the sodium. Jesus Christ.
>>
No. 39974
>>39965
>Food isn't nonsense.
Totally agree. Food is basically what I stand up for every working day and sit behind a desk for 8h.
>>
No. 39986
>>39955
I think that's more of a food mentality thing between Britain and the US. People don't normally stock up beyond a week here because the premium is on freshness and we don't have a frontier culture where one might be put under siege by Indian's or what-have-you.

The spatial geography is also completely different where I could maybe fit a month's worth of food in my flat but my nearest supermarket is 5 minutes walk away. You can't be arsed with the driving but I can't be arsed carrying all that shopping or buying an extra freezer for frozen fruit.

>>39965
>Tight on a budget at some point in the future?

Use the money you otherwise spend on excess shitty food for savings. This money can then be used to purchase goods and services. Excess food is nonsense because you don't need it but you also see no benefit from it beyond an illusion of control.
>>
No. 39987
let me post please
>>
No. 39993
34 kB, 600 × 800
>>39986
>I think that's more of a food mentality thing between Britain and the US
I wonder if there may also be some regional variance here in the US.
>>39955 mentioned tornadoes and blizzards as potential dangers. I grew up in the northeast, and blizzards were something we prepared for every year. In the fall we would start building up a supply on non-perishable food that we could use if a winter storm made shopping impossible. In all the years of doing that, I don't ever recall needing that food, but we still gathered it-just in case.
Because of that experience, having a bit of extra food around just seems normal to me. Heck, I even remember being told that during the winter, we should keep chocolate bars in the car in case we were ever trapped by a sudden snowstorm. Again, that never happened, but it was the mentality I was raised with.

>>39987
It looks like your request was granted, friend.
>>
No. 39999
>>39993
Likewise, it's a local tradition to stock up on milk and bread during the winter. Between that, I spent the weeks before buying dry goods, water, gas and propane.
>>
No. 40030
>>39993
you need a Windfang - ask your local welding - Bernd for details .
>>
No. 40033
>>39993
I too grew up in an area with snow and I know those settis. We also had a kerosene lantern since the power often would go out during heavy windstorms, sometimes blizzards, or I forget what you call it when it rains freezing ice and coats everything in a half inch think sheet of ice. Those are the ones that usually took out the powerlines in particular and because we lived in God's forgotten village it would often take a day or two for the power to come back on. Hence, us not having any water pressure. We had a big deep freezer filled with frozen veggies and venison from the fall so that thing was fine for a couple days without power but yeah on the occasions when it was out for three days food ij the fridge became a problem.

I just realized how few people probably actually know what being snowed in feels like, and due to global warming I'd imagine far far fewer do now too. Ernst's picture is accurate. That was our front door many times. Sometimes if you had a door that swung open to the inside you could just dig a tunnel through to the driveway but generally speaking when that happened the family couldn't leave their house for days at a time some maybe this having food thing was such an ingrained mentality it didn't even occur to any of us to question it. Although besides which this whole modernism and consumerism thing is just so abnormal to human life I cannot possibly endorse it nor your ultimate reliance upon Tesco and Walmart and Aldis for your continued functioning. Feels too white trash Deus Ex to go that road rather than canning everything into Mason jars from the harvest.
>>
No. 40038
What interests me, where do you people stash your stuff?
Like, just a couple of cans take up suprisingly much space, and a normal fridge only holds that much.
>>
No. 40039
>>40038
Do you not have a storage cupboard?
>>
No. 40040
295 kB, 800 × 554
>>39999
Yeah, I figured that anyone from the snowbelt would know how to stockpile food and such. While this virus will last longer than a storm, on the positive side, we probably won't lose water and electricity.

>>40030
>you need a Windfang
Why build a porch, when you can just grab a shovel and start digging :D. We lived in an apartment complex, though, so that wasn't an option even if we wanted one.

>>40033
>when it rains freezing ice and coats everything in a half inch think sheet of ice.
Ah, yes, freezing rain....It's beautiful, but trees and such collapse under all that weight. And God help you if that starts to fall while you're out driving.
We had a kerosene lantern, too. I remember it sat in a corner on the kitchen counter year-round. It was like a decoration that was also a survival tool.

>>40038
>where do you people stash your stuff?
In the kitchen cubboard. If there's no room there, then I would recommend using a couple of standard file boxes. They don't take up much space, you can stack them, and they also have those convenient handles for lifting.
>>
No. 40043
How are things going in the USA ?
I heared people are stocking on weapons and that theft is becoming common in some states.
>>
No. 40048
>>40043
>How are things going in the USA ?
In my area(Florida), calls from citizens to the police have dropped, because everyone is stuck at home. It's hard to get into trouble inside your own house, right? However, there is also a downside to that. There has been a slight increase in local shootings. A police chief said that because all of the nightclubs are closed, it's probably easier for people to target their enemies-since they know right where to find them.
Nationally, there has been an increase in gun sales, because buying guns during a crisis is an American™ tradition :^D. The Department of Homeland Security even issued an advisory saying gun shops provided essential services, and should remain open. That advisory isn't a legal order, though, and each State has been deciding on their own whether to close them or not.
>>
No. 40052
>>39993
Cripes, surely a blizzard won't put people out of food for weeks?
>>
No. 40054
387 kB, 1256 × 266
>>40043
So I was going to post in the today thread but I scroll down and see this

So going to the pet store has certainly been an interesting experience today. First of all almost half the people are wearing masks. This is my first venture around things in at least a week and the vibe is totally different. I myself am wearing a bydlo hazmat gear with p100 respirator, full suited raincoat with rainpants, and gloves with my little spritzer bottle full of iso, which btw is still out in every CVS and Walmart. I'll have to pick some up from a gas station I know that's charging like triple the price when I finally run out.

All the stores that are open have got all these signs everywhere, tape on the ground to maintain six feet from customers, and plexiglass barriers at the cashiers among other things. All over the place are these signs. I actually just bought the most adorable little puffer fish and while the store was still open I get there and the front door is locked. So apparently we have to call the store and tell them what we want and someone comes out with it and we give them the money. Actually come to think of it this is hilarious. For no apparent reason it just reminded me of Junktown or The Hun and idk why, but now I want to play Fallout.

All the guns are gone. And I actually mean like ALL the guns. But this part was expected when you ask
>murricans and guns
Dude we are always stockpiling firearms but now they're flying off the shelf so fast and when I say "all of them" what I actually mean is when you go into Walmart even all of the BB guns are out of stock. There's only mostly 410 aka 28 gauge ammo left and a couple odds and ends.

I think the reality of the situation has finally settled into the heads of many Americans now that it's finally hit us so hard that in basic murican maths what just happened was greater than one 9/11. We are going to be approaching two 9/11s worth of happenings now which I think means everyone had settled into being wary, cautious, and a little but sad. Ah good. Another woman gets in the bus and she's wearing a mask. That's what I like to see maam. When you get on, whomever you are next person to board my bus, and you see my gas mask you are going to be given absolutely the right image. Yes that means you unmasked people. Everyone needs to be protected now.

It just sucks my job is still giving me bullshit about no PPE masks until CDC says anything about it.

In short, yes, it feels borderline apocalyptic here. I'd give this current settis as PG13 apocalyptic scale at best. It's not truly apocalyptic here yet but things are clearly fugged and now all the bydlo know it too. I'd describe it as an absolutely comfy level of apocalyptic and dystopian,
absolutely
Cozy.

But in the meantime I've got the most adorable little puffer fish now and I'm trying to hold him under my arm like a mother hen brooding some baby chickens. I'm suppressing how terrified I am of doing something wrong and killing him or him turning out to be sickly.
>>
No. 40055
>>40052
You clearly haven't been to New England or the Dakotas lad. Or Minnesota or elsewhere thereabouts. If you live in the country it's not unusual to have a bad enough storm that kills the power for a couple of days and snows you in for days on end. That pic of the snowed in door is 100% normal. Sometimes higher.
>>
No. 40058
181 kB, 1086 × 815
>>40052
>surely a blizzard won't put people out of food for weeks?
I don't specifically remember how long our worst snowed-in situation lasted, but a couple of weeks is the starting point when preparing supplies because of the uncertainty. In a bad storm they measure the snow in feet, and after it finally stops falling it can take a while to clear all of the roads.
I should also point out that it's not all bad. While blizzards are dangerous, when you're young enough a mountain of snow and cancelled school classes are an amazing combination. And is there anything better than shoveling sidewalks for pocket money? Nope.

>>40054
>which I think means everyone had settled into being wary, cautious, and a little but sad
This is how I would describe it as well. I mentioned in a post last week(was it only last week?), how it seemed like people were suddenly afraid of each other, and that's exactly how it feels. When you see someone from the neighborhood-someone you've casually smiled at for years-freeze in place and nearly jump backwards because they're worried you might come too close, it's very unsettling. There's no violence or anything, but it's a huge psychological adjustment.
>>
No. 40060
993 kB, 2976 × 3968
We're actually making inroads into the shit I've stockpiled 5-6 weeks ago, we're using up plenty of the beans, pineapple slices, carrots and peas and some tins of the ambrosia creamed rice

There's plenty of food in the house and the shops are all open and stocked, but there's queues now to get into the supermarkets because they'll only let in X amount at a time. There's an uneasy feeling every time I go out in public with people giving each other shifty looks if you sneeze or clear your throat
>>
No. 40062
>>40060
I met a guy who said he was from Karn (Karan? Sp?) Which county/town is this place and what can you tell me about it?
>>
No. 40076
>>40054
>All the guns are gone. And I actually mean like ALL the guns
In Germany, no one has guns. People are unable to defend themselves, shit will be so cash when happenings start happening. All the leftist scum will be like
>OH NO HOW COULD THIS ONLY HAPPEN

Typical German leftist do-gooders will die in droves, because they are not prepared. I predict -50% population and -80% GDP for Germany this year, because the holy-talking do-gooder priest's daughter that rules this leftist utopia is completely incompetent. People are desperately trying to stock up on basic foodstuffs and TP, but the shelves are empty, lol, pathetic thinking you can prep last minute. Even those who manage to stock up will have their stuff taken from them from strong, well-armed "young men" willing to fight, and the cucked German police will be unable to do anything about it. Warlords will rule this place in just weeks.
>>
No. 40094 Kontra
49 kB, 570 × 427
>>40076
How is Kohlchan doing currently? Do you have any plans to go back at some time?

Regards
>>
No. 40104
>>40094
For Americans, it's apparently self evident that one has to be armed to prepared for what is coming. You dismiss this view of things as being blatantly foolish, out of a general sentiment that Americans are dumb and guns are bad. What do you think is it that makes you so much smarter than the average American?
>>
No. 40106
516 kB, 709 × 801
>>40104
>look at my arsenal of guns. I am strong, Murrica strong.
>I am overly prepared for everything what might come.
>Oh wait....I am dying. How can it be? I am so well prepared after all. Look at my guns

US records highest one-day death toll of any country so far

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/fauci-coronavirus-us-states-stay-home-orders

Furthermore I normally would ask you what is the use of 'being well prepared, meaning stashing guns bellow one's pillow', if everyone around you does too but then I realized your bumpy, basic English, so I refrain from doing so.
>>
No. 40109
>>40076
>I predict -50% population and -80% GDP for Germany this year, because the holy-talking do-gooder priest's daughter that rules this leftist utopia is completely incompetent. People are desperately trying to stock up on basic foodstuffs and TP, but the shelves are empty, lol, pathetic thinking you can prep last minute. Even those who manage to stock up will have their stuff taken from them from strong, well-armed "young men" willing to fight, and the cucked German police will be unable to do anything about it. Warlords will rule this place in just weeks.

lol. Germany is not a right-wing, neoliberal shithole like e.g. the U.S. or Somalia.
Hence: Won't happen, little, mentally disturbed kohlbrain.
>>
No. 40113
>>40062
Never heard of it, doesn't sound like an Irish town, you'd have to get the spelling of it right for me to tell you anything.
>>
No. 40117
>>40106
>Oh wait....I am dying. How can it be? I am so well prepared after all. Look at my guns
Obviously, guns will not protect you from dying of Covid-19 or any other infectious disease. They will, when handled correctly and with skill, protect you if society should descent into anarchy. This is a possibility even the German government considers, you can read it up on page 8 here:
https://fragdenstaat.de/blog/2020/04/01/strategiepapier-des-innenministeriums-corona-szenarien/

Even in a reasonably peaceful society, banning private gun ownership does little to protect the law-abiding individual from gun-owning criminals. The reason for this being that criminals, by definition, break laws.

>>40109
After hearing German media bemoan the fate of the American working poor for years, it will be hard for you to grasp, but consider the following: The US has 1.5 times the German GDP per capita and 1.5 times the median household income of Germany. The median wealth per adult is twice the German median wealth per adult. Even if wealth is distributed more unequally in America, America's poor are only about as poor as their German counter-parts, who have roughly the same income, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_States#cite_note-US_Census_Bureau,_median_income_of_persons,_age_25_or_older-4
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/3-440-euro-netto-im-monat-mit-diesem-einkommen-zaehlen-sie-zur-gehalts-oberschicht/24894732.html
Actually, the American paupers might even be better off, since energy prices in the US are 1/3 of German prices.

>Germany is not a right-wing, neoliberal shithole like e.g. the U.S. or Somalia.
>Hence: Won't happen, little, mentally disturbed kohlbrain.
This is, all in all, a very nationalist and arrogant line of thought. Formulated in more abstract terms, it reads like
>Germany has a superior political culture and a superior socioeconomic structure. Hence, bad things that can happen elsewhere can't happen here.

Such arrogance has led us where we are now. Only weeks ago, our political leadership was certain that a lockdown would not be necessary in Germany. The general idea was that Germany would be able to track down and isolate cases. As if German health authorities were more efficient, better equipped or better staffed than Chinese health authorities. Which they certainly aren't, considering that in Germany, data is transmitted by fax machine, in the current year.
We felt so secure and so superior to other nations that suggestions to close borders where rejected out of hand. "Closed doors and closed borders can't stop the virus", Cordula Schulz-Asche, green party member of the Bundestag, argued in all earnest*), and planes from Iran landed on German airports, while the epidemic in Iran was already in full swing. The passengers entered the country without even having their temperature taken. Any citizen of Singapore, South Korea or Japan hearing about this will consider us total idiots, and rightly so.

The current state of lock down could have been avoided, had adequate measures been taken at adequate times, like they have been elsewhere in the world. In Germany, such measures have not been taken, out of a treacherous feeling of security and superiority. Because
>Germany is not a bat eating third-world authoritarian shithole like e.g. China
>Hence: Won't happen,
etc...

*)The precedence of dogma over reason is a very German weakness, and very common in the left-leaning German upper middle class, people who proudly don't give a shit about math, science or rational thinking.
>>
No. 40124 Kontra
520 kB, 1578 × 1578
>>40117
Are you the same Bernd who predicted -50% in population etc? Clearly there is nothing rational, scientific or mathematically bullet proof in that post.
Your/his rant against an omnious left (upperclass liberals actually) again just makes you/him look like a stupid kohl retard. You can make it more profound I guess, I wouldn't even deny that greens or spd or other party members are liberals (capitalists with liberal values), but they are not leftists in the classic sense, just because socialist or communist or anarchic left is against racism (which is not true for all cases of leftism whatsoever) they are not the same sort as liberals who have higher positions within governemnt or certain media. That analysis lacks differentiation, a typical kohl attitude.
The radical left has already considered a breakdown of the system just like the government did, neither of those are stupid, they both have knowledge on how the system works. So far we cannot say what the outcome on different levels within society will be, period.
Even the stategy paper you are waving here is rather sober and not alarming. They considered anarchy if there is no command and control, which is not the case by now. The paper is two weeks (even more since it had to be written) old, a point in time when it barely started here in Germany. Surely the state won't let slip itself so easily. What they do consider is also selfperpetuating effects, feedback loops, which is I guess more likely not due to corona deaths but psychological fuckery and economic spiral downwards.
After all the worst case is 1.2 million deaths when nothing is done. Tell me more about -50% population and how that is based on reason and science. Consider that most people never dealt with what both things actually are, it's likely just an empty claim to strenthen a rather weak position.
>>
No. 40125 Kontra
725 kB, 1500 × 1211
>>40117
Also, since you sum up the bavrian ball

>Germany has a superior political culture and a superior socioeconomic structure. Hence, bad things that can happen elsewhere can't happen here.

Your little comparison does not consider that americans and especially poor americans have little access to healthcare, if they don't want to get even poorer or indebted as they already are. Maybe poor americans will consider seeking treatment/testing twice or three times. And even if I did not notice that the US goverment will turn on the money fountain in order to get everybody tested poor Americans don't receive a life long unemployment check, if they cannot find work. The German social security system is definitely closer to what is called welfare state. So yeah, there is a difference between the US and Germany policy that could have an impact on how the epidemic will turn out in both countries.
Bad things can happen everywhere, but again, this debate calls for further differntiation...
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No. 40131
47 kB, 622 × 543
>>40124
>your/his rant against an omnious left (upperclass liberals actually) again just makes you/him look like a stupid kohl retard.
>ominous
I would not call the obvious ominous.

>stupid kohl retard
The stupid kohl retards predicted a pandemic in January. They also predicted a shortage of PSE. Now, hospitals try to repurpose plastic raincoats.
https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/thema/2020/coronavirus/beitraege_neu/2020/04/oberhavel-kliniken-suchen-verkaeufer-von-schutzkleidung.html
Meanwhile, the general line voiced in public was
>We are well prepared
>There is no problem and there won't be a problem
>it is going to be like H1N1 or SARS

I wonder how stupid retards made correct predictions and how people who are so much smarter were wrong.

>You can make it more profound I guess, I wouldn't even deny that greens or spd or other party members are liberals (capitalists with liberal values), but they are not leftists in the classic sense, just because socialist or communist or anarchic left is against racism
In communist thought, race is not a very relevant category, compared to class.

>(which is not true for all cases of leftism whatsoever) they are not the same sort as liberals who have higher positions within governemnt or certain media
Joschka Fischer, Claudia Roth and Winfried Kretschmann all made their way from the radical left into positions of power.

>That analysis lacks differentiation, a typical kohl attitude.
Fine-grained nomenclatures get ridiculous really fast. Imagine two 15-year old metalheads conversing. "Wow, the new single Rusty Nails in Endymions Anus released last week sounds nearly like Symphonic Post Black Metal, even though they are an Epic Progressive Death Metal group!". (All terms made up, since it doesn't matter. Viewed with some perspective, it's all just noise made for the purpose of annoying your parents.)

>they are not the same sort as liberals who have higher positions within governemnt or certain media.
You chose to go down the road of nitpicking, so I'll call you out on it: the term liberal has been coined to describe certain parts of the political landscape in America, and it does not adequately describe circumstances in Germany. I do entirely not get why you think the (supposed) racism of liberal elites is of relevance here. The arrogance and feeling of superiority displayed by them is not derived from having lighter skin than others, but from (supposedly) having 'overcome' nationalism and running an individualistic, tolerant and open society and a welfare-state.

>The radical left has already considered a breakdown of the system just like the government did
And they (you?) plan to further it by terrorist acts.
https://de.indymedia.org/node/71934

>Even the stategy paper you are waving here is rather sober and not alarming.
They argue that GDP could plummet by 32% and society could descent into anarchy. If this is not alarming to you, it means that you are unable to grasp the implications.

>they considered anarchy if there is no command and control
This is wrong. I'll give you a literal translation of the relevant sentence from page 8 of the document:
>Should the measures suggested here for containing and controlling the Covid-19 epidemic prove ineffective, the complete system could be put into question in the sense of a 'melt-down'.
They do not write
>should the measures [...] not be implemented
but
>should [they] prove ineffective
There is a very important distinction here.

>The paper is two weeks (even more since it had to be written) old
The consequences of halting much economic activity for months or the consequences of having a two-digit percentage of the population in need of medical treatment have not changed a lot in the past month.

>a point in time when it barely started here in Germany.
It was obvious that the low numbers of registered infections or deaths in Germany would not be permanent, since virtually no measures had been taken.

>What they do consider is also selfperpetuating effects, feedback loops
What is your point? A complex economy has feedback loops everywhere. How is this argument supposed to support your point of view?

>which is I guess more likely not due to corona deaths but psychological fuckery and economic spiral downwards.
Reduced investment and consumption in the face of economical uncertainty is not "psychological fuckery", but a rational strategy. At the moment, many people are at risk of losing a huge share of their income or have already lost a share of their income, not just in Germany, but world wide. Of course they will try to reduce their expenditures. Why would you expect any consumer or business to act differently? Of course, there are companies and consumers who can afford to strategically consume and invest at low prices (most can't), but it's always a gamble.

>After all the worst case is 1.2 million deaths when nothing is done.
>when nothing is done
Again, this is wrong. It's the worst case scenario considered for "no effective measures taken". "no effective measures taken" does not mean "no measures taken". The current measures might be effective (or might not be effective), but they are not affordable. Scenario 4 considers the consequences of restrictions in place for the rest of the entire year.

>Consider that most people never dealt with what both things actually are
I doubt that you have.
>it's likely just an empty claim to strenthen a rather weak position.
So you take the position of a teacher, trying to test me, like a teacher would test a pupil? This is a prime display of the typical arrogance I criticized. I suspect to get A-marks, I would have to produce some bullshit along the lines of 'Science is a highly gendered hierarchically governed discourse that functions to further the interests of the privileged by producing actionable knowledge that can be employed to marginalize underprivileged minorities.'
See the (imperfect, humoristic) flow chart. Science is a process in which predictive models are iteratively improved and/or refined by testing the limits of their predictive power and through communication of its participants. Reasoning is the adequate application of predictive models to likely premises in order to derive predictions.

In the example of Cordula Schulz-Asche, we see that she either ignores a likely premise (A high share people in certain countries are infected with a certain communicable disease) or ignores a well-known model (Communicable diseases spread from person to person, an infected person will infect other persons) or fails to draw the conclusion (It is very likely that travelers from certain countries will spread the disease in Germany.) Because she refers to doors being unable to stop the spread of a communicable disease, I believe it's the second.

>just an empty claim
Could you repeat the claim i supposedly made?
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No. 40132 Kontra
>>40125

>>40125
>Your little comparison
I did not compare, I generalized.

>does not consider that americans and especially poor americans have little access to healthcare, if they don't want to get even poorer or indebted as they already are. Maybe poor americans will consider seeking treatment/testing twice or three times.
Maybe you ignored that there currently is no effective testing in Germany, either. To get tested, a patient in general needs to meet to conditions:
1.) They had close contact with a confirmed positive patient
2.) They show symptoms

So even in Germany, chains of infections cannot be traced completely. If chains of infections are traced incompletely or with a delay, the consequences are the same, whatever the reasons.

>And even if I did not notice that the US goverment will turn on the money fountain in order to get everybody tested poor Americans don't receive a life long unemployment check, if they cannot find work.
True. They receive unemployment benefits for a year or half a year, after that, things get difficult. But you also have to take into account that for decades, unemployment in America has been only half of unemployment in Germany and long-term unemployment was much less likely, due to higher flexibility in the job-market, both from employers and employees.

>The German social security system is definitely closer to what is called welfare state. So yeah, there is a difference between the US and Germany policy that could have an impact on how the epidemic will turn out in both countries.
The influence is limited. Below 10% of the US population do not have health insurance. Current estimates are that ~50% of transmissions happen before the infectious patient feels sick. Let's make a Fermi-estimate and pretend patients with health insurance stop transmitting when they first have symptoms, while those who are uninsured don't go into quarantine. Then, the uninsured account for a 5% increase in transmissions. Of course, things work differently in reality, but it's a rough figure. It might also be 3% or 10%. But likely not 30%.
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No. 40135
>>40131
>correct predictions

It was rather general prediction. Also I agree that it was underestimated by authorities around the globe including Germany.

>In communist thought, race is not a very relevant category, compared to class.

Depends on what communist thoughts you have in mind. We are not talking about plain marxism or soviet party line communism.

>Joschka Fischer, Claudia Roth and Winfried Kretschmann all made their way from the radical left into positions of power.

And Horst Mahler is a right winger these days, you are suggesting things. It's not like people can change their political opinion, is it? You can turn into a liberal and forget about your past. There is no causal determination as you suggest.

>Fine-grained nomenclatures get ridiculous really fast.

And I thought you were a friend of scientific methods...do you know what concepts are for? But I guess you like to reside being the parents more often than you want to acknowledge.

>the term liberal has been coined to describe certain parts of the political landscape in America
>from (supposedly) having 'overcome' nationalism and running an individualistic, tolerant and open society and a welfare-state.

I don't see how this does not fit the description of german liberals as well. Greens and SPD, FDP are mostly liberals, Liberale, perhaps linksliberal as they plea for tolerance, but leftists do not have a liberal stance anymore when it comes to the state and economics.

>the anarchy issue

And the last sentence of that paragraph suggests taking meassures for the economic backlash. Not just containment - The money printer meme is not just fun but a compression of an idea in that sense, which gets employed rn. The problem is rather, if that will work out. I alluded to Streecks Buying Time book before I think. I don't know what modern monetary theory has to say to that situation. But again, the state is interested in surviving and will not let slip itself. Ofc a chain reaction could mean a political meltdown. I never denied any of that at all. But it's a prediction out of many and predictions are not to be confused with future presents. They are a tool to operate in the present, not to actually say what will really happen. So you have to take predictions with caution. The line between rational behavior and emotional overload is thin.

>Reduced investment and consumption in the face of economical uncertainty is not "psychological fuckery", but a rational strategy.

the fuckery is related to people and the anarchy issue. People will revolt because of psyhcolgical issues and economic backlash and not because of the deaths that are ahead of us. Could a be a factor but I say it's minor in comparison to direct experience, your relatives or friends dying is a factor as well. That is what I said.

>Again, this is wrong. It's the worst case scenario considered for "no effective measures taken". "no effective measures taken" does not mean "no measures taken".

I think if the meassurements don't have an effect, it's like not taking any meassurements at all (we are not speaking about the effect the meassurements might have on the economy despite). In that worst case ( as illustrated on p.4 and 5) it is said that around 1.2 million could die within a few months and a Durchseuchung/high level of endemic infections takes place and brings the spreading to a halt after that, as far as I'm updated.

>Science is a process in which predictive models are iteratively improved and/or refined by testing the limits of their predictive power and through communication of its participants. Reasoning is the adequate application of predictive models to likely premises in order to derive predictions.

Boils down to science and reason are instruments for probability issues. Ok... And I thought Reason is more about arguments and their logics at first. Reason can be applied for prediction ofc. Science is ofc foremost a tool as you said. But then again reason is used to grapple with what science puts up.
The supposed is of science is not to be mistaken for the ought in rational (human) discourse.

>Could you repeat the claim i supposedly made?
>The precedence of dogma over reason is a very German weakness

It's a empty claim since that strategy paper proves you wrong. You really think government is running on emotions alone? the government is equipped with armies of experts suggesting their shit to politicians. Indcluding people who work in science or studied science, be it economics, biology/medicine/maths or social sciences, heck even philsophers will have a say in ethical questions. You probably think that political rhetorics and strategies are one with the expert discourses within government at any time, but that is not the case. The government would be pretty stupid to release nation wide claim that anarchy is at the doorstep. This fictional scenario will have an impact on how people think, will make them feel even more uncertain etc. That is what a governemnt wants to prevent. Becaue we don't know what will happen, but many people will take the anarchy secanrio has a fact (which it will only be once we actually have it, rn it's not a fact)
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No. 40136 Kontra
>>40132
>I did not compare

Well

>America's poor are only about as poor as their German counter-parts, who have roughly the same income, see
>as

I think that as is a word indicating a comparison

>Below 10% of the US population do not have health insurance.

Most often health insurance is tied to having a job that pays that.
Given a crisis in economy the job market maybe won't provide the flexibility it supposed to have according to you and people will have no health insurance while there is still an epidemic going on.
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No. 40140
>>40104
The problem is Americans are extremely dumb and histrionic. I'm worried about not having a gun because I'm surrounded by stupid as shit Americans. I do not want to be around all these bourgeois soccer moms, hoodrats, rednecks, and other assorted bydlo when SHTF. It's more a "I need guns because other people have guns" type of a thing"but why don't you have guns ernst" because I have typically been too poor to afford one which is like a month's rent to get an actually decent gun or one I'd genuinely want not just a shotgun and because the odds had always been that I am far far vastly far more likely to use it on myself than anyone else which is precisely why I have never bought one, and on top of that I was also an alcoholic and frankly the odds were not zero that I'd hurt someone on accident. "But why didn't you buy one and keep it in storage" because it was a ridiculous cost that I could not afford which is irrelevant because even if I did have one it'd still be in storage anyway just like my bb guns and pellet rifle none of which I have any access to right now in which case I'd still be completely fucked.
Also
>>40076
You are a moron
>strong you men
Lol if you mean all that fat neckbeards cosplaying as stormtroopers the answer is no, and furthermore in these conditions it is exactly those kinds of retards who are more likely to die. I have no ability to defend myself against National Guard even if I had the hardware. My apartment itself has zero defense against even the most basic military tactics. I have no innawoods to hide out in and the only place I could go would risk killing my father with a virus I didn't know I was tracking all over the place.

No the problem here is looting. Right now I'd want a shotgun like that sweet ass KelTec KS7 or someshit (because if I'm getting one I'd want a totally meme tacticool looking dumb shit, or something built of finely stained wood) or possibly high calibre armor piercing rifle though that has limited defense options. I'm still just too nervous about shooting myself if I keep it after happenings are over though. But yes, you try waving that thing around when military is deployed and see what happens. The real issue is the interim period and very end stage periods where the military either hasn't had time to deploy and people are starting to panic and riot or loot, and when the military is totally overstretched and can't help you.
In a country like Germany I legit would not be so concerned unless I had a massive enclave of Muslims right next to me. Then yeah I'd need something with a lot of ammo.
>-50%
Fucking lol itll kill 10% tops.
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No. 41447
Halfway between prepping and technologist, this man shows what you can accomplish with just a few good tools
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arnAD8I7msQ
Was just watching some pretty ebin videos about living in cabins, survivalism, and cheap living but ended up skimming over some. Building a cabin on a bakkie sounds like a fantastic idea for cheap living, if you can find a cheap enough pickup truck that is. I'm guessing the main problem is ultimately going to be about power which pretty much translates to batteries.

It's harder to find good videos about theories on development of xenobiology and realistic looks at what making a colony ship or setting a new colony would entail.
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No. 41459
>>40140
I've said it before, but move to Utah if you get the chance. Mormons have managed to preserve decent old-fashioned American culture for the most part.
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No. 41461
>>41459
I'm not going to put up with Mormons. They are creepy as shit and a bunch of heretics.