/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

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No. 40114
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Good evening, my fellow Ernsts.

I would like to host a show for /int/, similar to the one currently running under the name "Ernste Folgen" every second Sunday for /b/.
And tomorrow, we'll give it a shot.

I would like to talk with Ernst about beauty; what does Ernst consider beautiful, how beauty may or may not be to the eye of the beholder and how the ideal beauty has changed throughout time and whatever Ernst would like to add.

Ernst is warmly invited to participate in the debate either here by posting in the thread of by calling me through Skype where you would find me as "colmesrey"

We'll start tomorrow, Saturday the 4th of April at UTC+3 00:00.

No. 40116 Kontra
just to avoid any confusion, by tomorrow 00:00 I actually mean 24:00, so the night Saturday => Sunday
No. 40123
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I find Brutalist architecture beautiful, and those buildings have sharp angles, bold shapes, and lack any ornamentation. I also think Art Nouveau architecture is beautiful, but those designs are the exact opposite: the lines are soft, and subtle, and the surfaces are often layered with superfluous decoration. So why is that? What combination of elements causes me to identify something as beautiful? It's clearly not a single set of criteria, but a very broad pool of possible arrangements, and when objects are placed together in just the right way, then I see beauty.
While I can analyze this unconscious conclusion, this is just my conscious mind playing catch-up. I'm trying to understand what my subconscious immediately decided. I can identify a series of common traits, and then say-"Oh, I must like looking at these things." These types of things are beautiful. But in the end, I don't really know why. They just are, and I guess it doesn't have to make sense. I can just appreciate that beauty exists.
No. 40133
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>What combination of elements causes me to identify something as beautiful?
I always wondered if there is an abstract concept to beauty, like symmetry, harmony or some other mathematically describable pattern. On the other hand, it might just be a set of patterns that evolution or culture have taught us to recognize as favorable, like a girls beauty as a sign of good genes, brutalist archritecture (which I also enjoy) as a sign of power or a painting as a sign of skill.
No. 40134

Also recommended: other architectural documentaries by Jonathan Meades.

I believe that both have an importance. Also our own personal meanings that stem from private history.

Like how I might view some rather plain and nondescriptive building with particular care because I have nostalgic memories related to it. It all interwines and finds its expression in simple expressions like "I like it" or "I don't like it".
No. 40137
Should there be a distinction between beauty and sublime? I would put brutalist architecture on the side of sublimity. It's a common difference in aethestical theory btw.

Maybe you like this read, it won't provide an answer really but gives a notion on current aesthetical theory
No. 40138
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>I always wondered if there is an abstract concept to beauty, like symmetry, harmony or some other mathematically describable pattern
I had always assumed symmetry was a key factor in determining beauty in faces. By coincidence, I found these pictures yesterday while doing some image searches. This photography project is no substitute for a scientific study, ofc, but the results of 'mirroring' a portrait were surprising:

>'Both Sides Of' is a photography project that juxtaposes side-by-side portraits of models whose faces have been photoshopped to be mirror images of the left and right sides of their faces. The result was somewhat eerie.
>“I think they lack character— beauty is more based on character than an arbitrary data point,” Beck says. “Humanity is messy and should remain as such.

Here's What Faces Would Look Like If They Were Perfectly Symmetrical

>Concrete Poetry
Thanks, ernst.

>Should there be a distinction between beauty and sublime?
I'm not well versed on the philosophical distiction between the two, but you're right that my emotional reaction to each feels similar, but may not be identical.
No. 40139
>my emotional reaction to each feels similar, but may not be identical

maybe it's more affective, meaning you are tocuhed or moved by it. Sublimity is often connected with an overwhelming feel, horror, a gothic feeling when encountering a force that is more than you can grasp Edmund Burke, Kant and I think also Schiller all used the thunderstorm as an example.
Jean Francois Lyotard understood the sublime as something that dwells on what cannot be said, only shown. At least somehow it goes in that direction. Time has passed since I read his essay on it.

I want to quote from a novel in which the fictional author of a novel says
>symmetry is where arts and craft starts

Hence, great art is not about symmetry.

I can also give a dash of Hegel and why he thought greek art was so great, at least along the lines: it comprised an idea (of x) to it's fullest.
No. 40160
For some reason for me it's the symmetrical hairline which makes the photos creepy, I actually think the faces look beautiful (no homo).

>Hence, great art is not about symmetry.
Personally, I find it odd that I have less problems getting my mind around concepts like "god" oder "death" than I have thinking about beauty. I couldn't name even one common trait that all things I'd consider beautiful have in common.
No. 40162
Beauty for me is as well a riddle in contrast to sublimity, which I can 'analyze'. What makes a person beautiful? What can be called beautiful and what can be called sublime? I could name a few things I think are sublime, but the only thing I can actually call beatiful are women I've encountered in my life. There is a difference between mere (sexual) attraction and the beauty of a female (or whatever your orientation is) person. Sometimes a scene you observe can be beautiful as well. A small child playing with water for the first time or something like that. Yeah, children disocvering the world around them is actually a beatiful thing to observe for me, there is nothing sublime to it.
No. 40163 Kontra
I'm thinking again. Is beauty the absence of conflict, but which is not the same as symmetry?
No. 40164 Kontra
or the absence of violence and power?
No. 40165
No stream?
No. 40166
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Or the absence of a promised stream?
No. 40167
By absence of conflict, you mean that all of the elements are in harmony? If so, then I agree with that. Beauty may be a state where all the seperate parts of a thing work together to achieve a completely harmonious image/object/face.
No. 40168
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Is it possible to call today?
No. 40169
You sound perfect talk about your Puper please :3
No. 40170
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I prepared some subtle encouragement for all the new listeners, just in case that people are wondering whether they should call or not.
No. 40172
I'm not sure if it is harmony. Like with the quote, harmony can become kitsch. But yeah it's a kind of flawlessness. The object or subject of beauty does not distress but calm you. Simple Delight.
Not sure if that is what Kant meant by disinterested pleasure.
No. 40173
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What does Ernst think? Is his subjective measurement of beauty reproduceable? If Ernst considers something beautiful, will he still consider the same thing beautiful the next day, or the next week, given that the thing itself has remained unchanged? Because if not, finding any objective criterie for beauty might be impossible.
No. 40174
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I think brutalist architecture appeals to an abstract principle of power, simpleness, and pride. While not everybody might consider it beautiful, I think everyone at least might agree about those represented ideals.
No. 40175
What is the background audio? It sounds like he is softly repeating himself after he speaks
No. 40176
I'm glad to see so many Brutalism fans. I thought I might be an outlier :D
No. 40177
Not for me. Is your stream doubled somehow?
No. 40178
Same for me. Maybe the Tv is running or something?
No. 40179
btw, I am listening on my phone while I am doing some work outside.
No. 40180
Oh well, you're right, my stream was too quiet. There's something in the background.
No. 40182
I recall my lecturer saying that Kant's take on beauty is the endless judgement.

So what beauty is, is archieved by consensus, like this:

Brutalism is beautiful, isn't it? And then you say yes/no etc
No. 40183
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I once heard that in amateur boxing, where there is red and blue gear by default, the red fighter has a slight advantage. The explanation for this was that the blue fighter might be intimidated by the red gear, which looks like blood, and that means danger.

Strangely, I can't find anything on the net to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't make it up, because I'm not even interested in boxing.
No. 40184 Kontra
>Maybe the Tv is running or something?

:DDD reminds me of those TV call in shows on 9live and such.

I also thought it's sounds like TV
No. 40185
No. 40188
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Graph is just a quick visualization after thinking about the topic and listening to the show.
No. 40189
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Agreed, nice job!
No. 40190
Nice one!
No. 40191
>beauty and attractiveness
I think attractiveness comes first. It feels like the parent trait, and that influences our subjective perception of beauty. If we consider someone attractive, which is not conciously decided as far as I know, we will generally look at that person in a favourable way and actively search for beauty.

I'd not agree on the pleasure part as similar or strongly related to beauty, since pleasure can be derived from lots of things, like eating or getting drunk. So at least I'd say that beauty is not required for pleasure.
No. 40192

>Strangely, I can't find anything on the net to back this up
Your right about the color red, ernst. I found this article on Color Psychology.


This is just one more area where our subconscious reacts, and we just go along for the ride :D
No. 40193 Kontra
I'm not sure. I can find a person attractive but not beautiful, sometimes both is there at the same time. Like you think someone is beautiful and hence attractive.
No. 40194 Kontra
Colin, you could pick some posts before the show tho the discussion started right before the show unfortunately to have a general overview and then have callers in between reading the posts and if a caller and you accidently dwell on a topic that is in one of the posts you could read it in addition.
No. 40195
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I'd like to throw in something different: I recently read a post by an USA-Ernst, who said he considers himself "too casual" for /int/, because he's more into funposting. Given todays topic and since we also talked about similar stuff on /b/, it made me wonder what people would consider a beautiful board, especially when you consider the differences between /b/ and /int/. /int/ is a more serious board with a stronger focus on discussion and quality, while /b/ is more like a slower old KC minus the cancer, with some serious discussion but also lots of funposting. Still, both groups of visitors would consider their board beautiful I suppose, and still we are able to find lots of common ground, especially on the radio, but also for example when sharing shoops like in the Spede thread.
No. 40196
yeah you're right
kind of nervous about my first show on a language that is not my native tongue though, therefore I'm kind of suffering here right now keeping my shit together
No. 40197
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Tough question tbh.

An ironic answer is within pic attached can somebody shop it into Small is beautiful, imagebaords as if quality matters; Ernst is beautiful, imageboards as if posting matters?
No. 40198
You are doing good so far. I've never listened to the German Kosmonauts :D therefore I'm not able to tell the difference.
No. 40199
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>Your right about the color red, ernst. I found this article on Color Psychology.
Thanks USA-ball, you are my greatest ally! I only found some nonsensical forum posts talking about a 90% win rate, which is obviously idiotic. I remember the mentioned numbers were 52:48%.

You're doing great. In fact you're doing so great that I forever will be intimidated to try an english show. Or I might just use that as an excuse for my laziness :DDD
No. 40201
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We just concluded that the caller has a nice voice and should make his own radio show!
No. 40202
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>Shop it
My quick effort.

"Wow, that's F'in beautiful!"
Yes, we all have that reaction at times, and there's no thought or analysis, just experience.
No. 40203
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Nice, fuggin saved!
No. 40204
Cars indeed can be beautiful. DESIGN! FORM! COLIN!
No. 40205
Well done!
No. 40206
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Maybe seeing beauty in cars is cultural. Old American Muscle cars....
No. 40207

Could you also make an: Ernst is beautiful, imageboards as if postingor: quality mattered.
No. 40208
European cars from the 70s and 80s, some 90s. The great period. You might be onto something as I don't fancy muscle cars but the european production line.
No. 40210
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I always liked Alfa Romeo Spider. Considered to buy one at one time, but then I remembered that I actually might need to drive it somewhere else than my local mechanic. Went for an old Mazda MX-5 instead (no bully pls, loved that car, really fun).

Love that old Ford Mustangs. The new ones are cool, too, but probably too thirsty.
No. 40212
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>state of decay beautiful
While I wouldn't agree on the food part, it is indeed beautiful to see nature reclaim old buildings or structures. Makes you think about the passing of time and how life is strong and prevails.
No. 40213
Too assburger and inept to do such a thing.
No. 40214
Thank you.

Seeing beuty in decaying objects reminds me of "ruin lust". That's what they call it when people like looking at old broken structures.
No. 40215
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>If you're playing CS:GO
Portugalernst should join the EC steam group, if he hasn't done so already!
No. 40216 Kontra
Oh wait, it's Austriaernst now, my bad. Self-Kontra!
No. 40217
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No. 40219
>Portugal, Austria, USA, Turkey
And the server is located in Romania, while being provided by a company which resides in St. Tome in the caribbean!

I remember that picture! And a story about being married to a black prostitute.
No. 40220
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I'm Having a good time. Great callers.

I left the bottom text because..lazy :D
No. 40223
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Talking about decaying things,
Is gore beautiful? I have much better pictures on my old hardrive, and I don't know how much people tolerate this type of thing.
Personally, I find grotesque art to be pretty beautiful. Some of Roland Topor's art is pretty beautiful.
No. 40224
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>I'm Having a good time. Great callers.
This! The experiment is a huge success!
No. 40225
Mixing modern elements on an old structure?! That sounds like a terrible idea.

When i look at those pics, I can see the artists technique, and the composition and his use of a visual narrative. So it's impressive, but it's not really beautiful to me. It's a great example of this topic-1 picture is beautiful to one oerson, but not too another, so what process creates this reaction? That's really hard to answer.
No. 40226
>So it's impressive, but it's not really beautiful to me
Same, I can recognize and appreciate the skill of the artist, and that a reasonable amount of effort has been put into it, but still I wouldn't consider it beautiful. I can relate this to the things I created for imageboards. I found that there is almost no correlation between the effort I put into a new content of some kind and its success. Made me realize the obvoius: The effort put into something is not a valid argument for its quality.
No. 40227
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Here are the buildings I was talking about
No. 40228
Thanks, I knew what you meant when you wete describing it, but the picture really emphasizes how marrow the bottom is.

Thanks for the show Colin, and thanks to the callers. I really enjoyed it.
No. 40229
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As requested by the host: An addition to >>40195

A beautiful board for me is a board that meets my needs. Of course it is true that, like you already pointed out, that it was a bold extension of the concept of beauty. Maybe it is more of a mixture of appealing content, the possibility of contributing my own content, the knowledge that there a people around that I can relate to, and last but not least a functional and appealling design. I hate to say it but I can't handle the Ernstchan resident light brown, so I immediatly switched to a dark css with white letters and green quotes. Even the Phutaba doesn't quite do it for me, so I wrote my own for an extra amount of darkness. Sounds funny perhaps, but for me it really is important!

>show over
Impressive job, very good show. Kosmonauten deliver as usual, no matter the language!
No. 40260 Kontra
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I noticed that I made some small errors when I was airbrushing this, and to make matters worse, those errors were on the words "as if quality mattered" :D. While the irony made me smile, I just had to fix it.
No. 40650
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This Sunday, I'd broadcast another show for you and would like to have some serious discussion about "changes".
Changes in life, the major and the minor ones, changes in Ernst's home town architectural design, changes in the political system s/he lives in, changes in the imageboard world, language, fashion - you name it.

Whatever Ernst got on his chest, feel free to share either ITT or talk to me on Skype: colmesrey

I'd start right after the weekly album stream, therefore I can't name you an exact time but something like around 01:00 PM CET.

Hope to see you there.
No. 40658

So, if you lurk too long on /int/, you will turn yourself from a young communist into Abraham Lincoln?
Do you want to say that, Colin?
No. 40660
Nearly a week in advance. I will give a few thoughts in the next days. So far:

  1. Change vs. stagnation (especially in an ernsts life). Nothing changes, we all know that. But there is this tiny accumulation and once in a while..BAM you realize years have passed and you are still that guy and you are not at the same time. Strange innit?
  2. Just some personal observation. My way to high school had a street with many nice Altbauten and trees in it. These days all the trees are gone and the streets of that area are noticebly more filled with families that want to live in a hip area. The shops that opened are a sign for it together with an organic food supermarket. It was a student and greek district in the 90s and 2000s. At least the latter is true, my elementary school is there as well and I lived in the same street basically for two years, good years. The greeks are still prominent in that street and on easter they blasted music so loud someone called the cops. There also was a döner and gyros joint, the owners are a married couple greek/turkish perhaps kurdish, dunno. I look back to that time since it was when I still had gf and my own flat with her. The summers where exceptionally soothing, sitting at the window and always life pulsating outside.
No. 40699
When I was younger, I recall my mother describing how our hometown had changed since the time she was a child. A building which was then a drug store, used to be a small grocery, and things like that. Our business and shopping districts were small, and all of those differences taken together made it seem like a completely foreign city. But that was only becasuse I was hearing about 20 years of change all at once-comparing the time of her childhood to mine.
While living there, changes were still happening of course-a new post office was built, the library expanded, Walmart moved in, empty fields were paved over to make a Home Depot parking lot- but because I was witnessing these in real-time they were hardly noticable. So my point is that, although change in our living environment is constant, so long as it occurs slowly we're not likely to give it a lot of attention. We don't feel disrupted. One thing changes, and then we get used to it, and then something else changes and we get used to that, too.

On that subject, but from a slightly different vantage point-that is, from space- here's a great time-lapse video revealing how US cities have grown over time.

Amazing Time-Lapses Show How Much America Has Changed

Since 1984, images of American cities have been shot by satellites. By placing them together, these time-lapses show the incredible growth of some of those places along the years.
No. 40763
The only interesting thing I know about the concept of change is that Parmenides posited that change was impossible. The Universe, thus, is static, and all perceived change is simply a shift in perspective. Like continuously seeing facets of a higher dimension object.
Most of his writings were lost to time, but he was a significant influence on Plato's philosophy. You can read it here, it's pretty short: http://philoctetes.free.fr/parmenidesunicode.htm

First he states that the concept of nonbeing or nothingness is false. We can not comprehend or conceptualize non-being, as in order to even think about it, we have to refer to it by proxy through some object. We can't think about nothingness, we can only not think about something, implicitly defining the existence of that something that is not present at the moment.
Then he states that reality is made up of eternal, indivisible, immutable, continuous objects that form a static whole. Because if it once was not, where could it come from, and for what reason would it start existing? Surely not out of nothingness, as there is no such thing. Everything always just was, it never began. Neither could it disappear and cease existing. And finally, how could one moment be separated from another, for there to be such a thing as a sequence, or causality? Surely one moment could not be separated from another by nothing, as then it would have to cease existing and then exist over and over again. And what would connect those pieces to each other through those "gaps" of nothingness, for one to be caused by another? Everything must therefore be an inseparable whole, both in time and space.
I am paraphrasing and definitely failing to convey the full meaning of it, so do read the actual text/translation, it's really interesting.

It was pretty enlightening when I first truly understood what he was talking about. Quite fascinating that a man can uncover such deep truths about reality by just sitting down and thinking really hard.
No. 40764
See antagonist to Parmenides would be Herclitus, which argued for change afaik.

>Everything always just was, it never began

which would go fine with process philsophies like Heraclitus was an ancient prime example of. You can start in the middle of the movement as it as always been there. Deleuze said I think the eternal return (Nietzsche; repetition) of Difference. What is, is difference going on. You have an abstract realm, the virtuality of what could be that is continously actualized or materialized. I don't even know myself how to bring that across as I don't know the xact details. A good example of that process ontology would be the first chapter of the anti-oedipus by Deleuze and Guattari. Tho you usally don't get much and have to consult secondary literature. The problem with that philosophy is that they don't really reason for how it is possible that we know it is like that. It is suggested that it falls near the phenomenon of quantum physics and new spiritualisms, some phycists from that time happen to wrote about it, I don't remember who exactly. I wonder if it is just a coincidence that many process philsophers have that (open) cosmologic vibes in their works.
It's a very big binarity in philosophy. So quite a good idea to bring that in.
No. 40813
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So, if I understand the argument correctly:
Because nothing can exist between one moment and the next, then all time must be considered one continuous whole. Therefore, any action that might be defined as "change", isn't an actual change in the infinite whole, but is merely a small part of that whole viewed from a different perspective on an infinite timeline?
This is similar to how I always imagined an infinte God would see physical reality. As He would be outside of time and space, He would exist simultaneously in all places and at all points in time. What we think of as motion would be impossible, as motion requires movement along a timeline. The changes that we percieve and take for granted-Tuesday follows Monday, etc-would be a mystery to Him. From His point of view, changes don't happen, they just are, and the different states adopted by matter have always been. If I drop a glass, it is-at the same moment-in my hand and in pieces on the floor.

I also like the Ship of Theseus thought experiment, and how if relates to change. At what point does an object(or maybe even even a town, job, etc) change so much, that it is no longer the same object? Or does it always remain the same because the changes occurred gradually?


Quoting myself here, because I wanted to emphasize that word again. If I had to pick one word to describe change in my personal life, it would be disruption-with all of its negative connotations. I think most people are similar, as we're hard-wired to resist change. Just look at the tradition of New Year's Resolutions, and the jokes about how few people keep them. Habits, and inertia, are difficult to overcome even when change is for the better.
No. 40842
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I've read your posts already and appreciate your participation. Looking forward to the show, Ernsts.
No. 40849
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Will it be possible to call in today?
No. 40850
We're about to start soon

No. 40851
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>Our business and shopping districts were small, and all of those differences taken together made it seem like a completely foreign city
Strange how we would feel out of place in our own city 25 years ago. I guess my younger self wouldn't like my current self very much, and vice versa.

>Like continuously seeing facets of a higher dimension object.
I was thinking about that a lot lately. If everything is static and we're just pushed through it, we'd just be rocks flowing through that static higher dimensional object and get our face slammed on it's edges every once and a while without noticing what really happened. That would also mean that everything is pre-determined, and free will is merely a substitute for the lack of being able to see around the next corner of the higher dimension object.

On the other hand, that would also mean that things like death are meaningless, because they are only relevant in out measly 3D-realm.
No. 40852
Strange how we would feel out of place in our own city 25 years ago.
I was thinking that-even if we never leave the town we're born in, we still grow old in a different town. But we just don't see it. The only thing that stays the same are the geographical markers-mountains, rivers, etc.
No. 40853
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>The only thing that stays the same are the geographical markers-mountains, rivers, etc.
And even those change over large enough timescales. I somehow find it frightening that Polaris, which is known as the North Star, has in fact only been this for a few thousand years or so, and will cease to be it in another few thousand years. Man, not even the sky is eternal.
No. 40854
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I'll be honest I haven't been reading philosophy lately, this is just something from back when I was more into it. Should definitely catch up on my reading so I can elaborate further with more concrete stuff.

We could also think of it in terms of a causality chain. If an event is caused by another event, which is caused by another, etc., then what caused the First Cause? If it was the first Cause, then preceding it would be nothingness, and nothingness can't cause somethingness, for reasons of being, well, nothing. And could there be a break in that causality chain, so that "things" or "events" could be compartmentalized as distinct objects? Again, surely not, as we run into the same problem of something being caused by nothing. So the chain of causality really isn't a line, but rather an interconnected mesh with no beginning or end, with no breaks in continuity.

Regarding ship of Theseus, I think it's a continuous object in 4 dimensions :-D. And with that argument, I claim you were cloned atom by atom, and the original killed, the new "you" would not actually be you, since this thread of continuity is severed. And for the same reason, even though every 8 years every atom in your body is replaced, you are still you.
No. 40855
>re: movies
This reminds me of the Kuleshov effect.
>The Kuleshov effect is a film editing (montage) effect demonstrated by Soviet filmmaker Lev Kuleshov in the 1910s and 1920s. It is a mental phenomenon by which viewers derive more meaning from the interaction of two sequential shots than from a single shot in isolation.

>Kuleshov edited a short film in which a shot of the expressionless face of Tsarist matinee idol Ivan Mosjoukine was alternated with various other shots (a plate of soup, a girl in a coffin, a woman on a divan). The film was shown to an audience who believed that the expression on Mosjoukine's face was different each time he appeared, depending on whether he was "looking at" the plate of soup, the girl in the coffin, or the woman on the divan, showing an expression of hunger, grief, or desire, respectively. The footage of Mosjoukine was actually the same shot each time.

Frames in a movie could be separated from each other, and by themselves, they would not have any meaning, But then, they could be rearranged into different sequences, and those sequences together would create meaning that was not present in the frames in isolation. And different arrangements of the frames create different new "meaning" from other arrangements.

In a way, this is how most art forms seem to work. You have some fundamental, irreducible "pieces" that mean nothing by themselves, like shapes in lines in visual arts, notes in music, etc., but arrangements of them create an infinite space of possibilities for meaning. But those atomic pieces themselves are fundamental and immutable. Plato wins again. Even though he hated art :-D
No. 40856
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>we seek for sense, it's a human thing
Sometimes I fear that we are way too far away from acquiring the necessary information to make sense out of anything about the universe/existence except the things that lay open for us to see, and by that I mean our perceivable 3D-world. For everything else, we might be still the equivalent of hearing thunder and worrying about an angry god.
No. 40857
>In a way, this is how most art forms seem to work. You have some fundamental, irreducible "pieces" that mean nothing by themselves, like shapes in lines in visual arts, notes in music, etc., but arrangements of them create an infinite space of possibilities for meaning
That reminds me of our recent beauty discussion, which I was just about to lay out here before I just barely remembered that it also happened here on /int/ :D There we argued if it was possible to define an essence of beauty, or it it exists only in a given context like an attached property, but never as an entity alone. Same can be said about the interpretation of those immutable entities. By themselves, they mean nothing. Meaning is only created in the eye of the watcher, who relates the things he sees to his memories and recreates the subjective meaning in his mind, and there can eb a wide variety of meanings, depending on the experiences of the observers.
No. 40859
My experience matches Colins, re personality. Looking back at a 8 or 12 year old me, I am essentially the same. I have more information to guide my decisions, and I'm more tempered as a result, but the core 'me' has not changed, at least not significantly.
No. 40860
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>but the core 'me' has not changed, at least not significantly
I'd agree, but I wonder if it was possible to notice if it had changed at one point in time. For that, it would be necessary to define what that "me" is. The conciusness itself, or maybe the conciousness and the attached information/memories? And is it the sum of the particles which make up the brain? And since every single particle there is replaced multiple times in our lifespans, can the "me" still be unaltered?

Even more fun: Why am I me, and not for example you or everyone? I can understand that things like conciuosness are an elevated ability which is more as the sum of it's parts, but how is the entity that is me put in charge of my conciousness, and only that single one? And if that is related to the parts of my body (which definitely are subject to change) the "me" should be changing a lot.

So at some point, my view model is flawed here: iI there is only one unchangeable "me", I can't find any property of myself which could be responsible for that. But if this is not the case, why am I always me, and always have been? So my best guess for this is that we are still missing at least one major puzzle piece here.
No. 40861
I wanted to participate in that discussion, but I couldn't put my thoughts together in a coherent manner. I don't really think of beauty in terms of "prettiness" or its synonyms, but in more abstract terms, which I can't really verbalize. So I had to abstain.

>Meaning is only created in the eye of the watcher, who relates the things he sees to his memories and recreates the subjective meaning in his mind, and there can eb a wide variety of meanings, depending on the experiences of the observers.
I personally hold the opposite belief. I think a work of art has an inherent meaning or "idea" that it is a physical representation of. Now, people can interpret it in many ways, but the core of it is still there in some way. Because if different people observing the same piece of art had completely unrelated experiences, that would negate the role of art as a form of communication. If different people "listened" to the same "words", but understood them differently, then there really would not be any point of looking at a particular work of art than any other, they would all be interchangeable, since you could get any kind of experience from any kind of work, as long as you interpreted it that way.
I think the magic of art is precisely that different people looking at one work can all be simultaneously experiencing the same thing, sharing something in between them through the work, without communicating with each other. This sort of indirect connection is fascinating on its own, that two unrelated subjects, possibly in completely different places, can be having the same process happening in their brains by looking at a physical representation of an idea. Sort of like intentional synchronicity, or an analogue of quantum entanglement.
I dunno, I'm sleepy and can't quite explain it, but I hope you get it.
No. 40862
Thanks for the show, Colin, I enjoyed it.
No. 40863
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Yeah, great show once again, good job!
No. 41710
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Despite >>40201 and >>40213, next Saturday, we gonna have another episode of Serious Discussions together.

The topic will be "failure"

What does Ernst consider failure and therefore, success? Surely, there should be a distinction of failing in the eyes of someone else and failing towards one's own expectations. Yet, for obvious reasons, these two are interdependent.

Also, feel free to share your very own experiences with failing. Maybe Ernst is a failure to his parents? Maybe Ernst fails at maintaing a healthy social environment? ITF it goes.

Save the date:
Saturday, May 16

any technical failures during the show should be considered part of the concept
No. 41711
71 kB, 600 × 800
I will be co-hosting this show, for despite being inept and assburger as previously stated, failure comes naturally to me and I have great experience in this topic.
No. 41712
>failure comes naturally to me and I have great experience in this topic.

This has to be an all expert discussion I guess :DDD It is the defining attribute of all of us to certain extents and THE imageboard motif par excellence.
I try to contribute more thoughtful within the week, but I don't know if I'm able to listen or if I will be socially successful and hang out with people if the weather is good enough.
No. 41721
What you need to undertand is that failure is a point in time, space - but success is a derivative, a trajectory. You can't be "successful" for but a moment, if you stop being successful or decelerate your success, that's a point failure - and will be treated as such.

Success is exhilirating, it's conquering your enemies and bedding their women and destroying their temples and all the ilk combined. It's addicting, as it should be, yet many people die without experiencing this grotesque drug in its full potency. People can see it in you, and they respect it even if they hate you and the success, that begrudging acknowledgment is hardwired in us. That's what makes it so great, and so destructive at its end.

Napoléon in St. Helena said he wished he'd died fighting at the gates of Moscow. Not that he had made it out of it, or at his operetta kingdom in Elba, or his restoration succeeding or if we want a death-wish, dying in Waterloo. Because he was successful up until that point. Now, a Napoléon retreating from Moscow has still done better than most of mankind put together but it doesn't matter - the trajectory is lost and the spell is broken.
No. 41726
My biggest failure is not having failed enough times due to not even trying. My frail ego prevents me from facing falure, and therefore, succeeding. If I had failed enough times I'd have been somewhere by now. Failure is the required prerequisite to success. Sounds like a dumbass facebook motivational quote, but it's my 5 cents.
No. 41850
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I never really fail in the eyes of others, as I spend enough time alone that the opportunities to do so are rare :D. Still, I once had a temporary job working in an accounting office, and was given the task of sorting through some guy's files. He had quit unexpectedly, and the boss didn't understand his source documents. Basically, I was given a few numbers on a spreadsheet, and had to figure out where they came from. Tbh, it was above my ability, but rather than admit that, I just put my head down and set to work. For a week I plowed through file boxes, still doing my other tasks while trying to figure this one out. Eventually I confessed that I couldn't solve the problem. It was embarassing, as most public failures are, because I was lowered in the eyes of someone who I wanted to impress. You know, I can accept being disliked, but I have a real need to be seen as competent. In this instance I clearly wasn't. Anyway, I didn't have to face that daily shame for long, as I was gone a couple of weeks later when the original temporary assignment ended. What a relief that was :D.

>Sounds like a dumbass facebook motivational quote, but it's my 5 cents.
The fact that those quotes are so abundant speaks to how widespread our collective fear of failure is. Worse in some than others, but still always there. Failure is supposed to be a normal part of life, but here we are having to tell each other over and over, in new and clever ways, that it's okay to fail. (Did you know that baseball legend Babe Ruth led the league in Homeruns and Strikeouts! So get out there and try!) It's true, ofc, unless you're running from a bear or something then it is okay to fail. But it doesn't always feel okay. Sometimes it feels like a small taste of death.
No. 41931
friendly reminder, today evening at
9:00 PM UTC

looking forward to the show guys
No. 41936
67 kB, 1024 × 759
No. 41947
reminds me a lot of this speech I've seen on TedX

No. 41949
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No. 41950
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In earlier times, Ernst was very conscious about his shortcomings and felt he was a failure in many areas. But as time went by, Ernst got used to being good in some areas while being hopeless in others, and things like failure or success are not that important to him any longer. Ernst knows that he will never have success in some areas, and he accepts it. No need to continuously blame myself for it.

The things that come closest to failure is when I fail at things where I know that I should have done better, like stupid mistakes at work for example. That feels bad, because it's failing where it was easily avoidable. Failing in areas where I seem to be born to suck isn't really failure for me, it's more like "works as designed".

Life is too short to blame oneself anyway, so I usually don't bother with it.
No. 41951
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>You can call me Max
Seems suitable :D
No. 41952
Can hear you fine, but volume is lower than normal.
No. 41953
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I can hear you both loud and clear.

>I'm actually happy that I didn't fail to start at the right time
So you failed at failing?
No. 41954
20 kB, 290 × 400
>You can be a fucking illiterate and still host an Icecast server
I can confirm that. t. radioadmin
No. 41955
Pro-tip: be nice to your siblings from the very start. They succeed=You succeed (or at least you have someone to borrow money from :D).
No. 41958
>but success is a derivative, a trajectory. You can't be "successful" for but a moment, if you stop being successful or decelerate your success, that's a point failure
Totally agree with that.
>it's conquering your enemies and bedding their women and destroying their temples and all the ilk combined
Sounds like pursuing success is pushing yourself over limits again and again, that sounds tiring. I can't quite agree with that, maybe because I'm lazy. For me success is living the good life, and besides sports I have no desire of beating my opponent into submission. A large lump of meat on the grill and chilling in the sun feels pretty successful for me. Maybe not for onlookers or for women, but why would I worry about that? Feels good, man!
No. 41959
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Religion shifts the yardstick by which we measure success from the outward and worldy, to the inner and spiritual. Just like Lt. Worf.
No. 41960
>My biggest failure is not having failed enough times due to not even trying.
>Sounds like a dumbass facebook motivational quote
Reminds me of this Michael Jordan Nike ad, where he also talks about his failures making him a success in the long run: https://youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc

Also just because successful people failed a lot, I don't think failing a lot automatically leads to success. There's a mathematical/logical constellation that a condition can be necessary for an outcome, but not sufficient, and I think that is the case here.
No. 41961
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>90% of people don't know how big of a failure I am
So you are the most successful guy at failing! Also: Maybe you just don't know about their failures, so you assume that they are more successful. Everybody always thinks he's the most embarrasing, most pervert, most shameful, most hopeless individual in worlds history, but the only reason for this is because you know lots of things about yourself. If we all knew about others on the same level we know about ourselves, I bet we'd all feel pretty mediocre all of a sudden.
No. 41963
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No. 41964
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>long term goals yadda yadda
Setting long term goals is just denying your ability to decide what's best for you in every given moment. It's like babysitting yourself.

Finally I can post this comic again, I already spammed /b/ with it a lot!

Fuggin saved!
No. 41966
>Iron man
Triathlon/marathon are meme midlife crisis sports. Lots of aging men take it on thinking "Now I'll show everyone and myself what I still can do". Not taking away the accomplishment here, but still I've heard about it so often now that it makes me chuckle when I hear about another 40year old who starts out with it.

>he has 5 children
Well, in this case I can understand why :D Finally some quality time where no one is shouting at you.
No. 41969
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>I thought it was a prank
Several rejections in my youth (and an actual prank) also made me believe that any affection that girls show towards me is most likely a prank, so I didn't respond properly to it. The seed of distrust rested deep in me! Took some time to get that out of my mind.
No. 41970
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OK, here is the prank story: I was 17 or 18, and I was sitting at a birthday party, and at that time I was far more socially awkward than now, and I looked like Dorkman with my glasses and my cheap clothes and my shitty haircut. Suddenly a girl approached me and told her how she liked me and she thinks I'm cute. I kinda did not believe it, since she wasn't really convincing (she acted pretty stupid, and not in a cute way), and shortly after that I found out that some of her pals made a bet with her that she wouldn't dare to approach the superdork at the other table and touch his balls (for the protocol: she didn't). But that basically was the prank.

Pic related, it's me at age 17, just that I wore much worse clothes.

Death is the final equalizer of everything. No matter how hard you fucked up, or if you fucked 1000 women, fathered dozens of children, planted millions of trees and finished an Iron Man at age 80: We all will be resetted to zero. It is scary (especially the process of dying, even more than death itself), but it is also the final forgiveness that this world has in store for us.
No. 41971
Stop cursing! There are children listening!

You diddler!
No. 41972
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No. 41973
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Sorry Ernst, thank you for listening
No. 41974
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Great show, premium entertainment. I feel bad for all those people who have a social life and missed it. I can literally feel them shedding bitter tears now while they are out partying or having sex with their GFs.

Also great job Max, you did excellent!
No. 41975
Brilliant show, thanks Colin and Max.
No. 41976
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Thank you for these kind words
No. 43705
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We're going to have a Serious Discussions broadcast tomorrow, Collin and myself will be talking about people or events that changed one's life.

20:00 UTC (22:00 Ernst Time), that's 20 hours from now. Make with this information what you will. I understand this is in short notice, but I'm unsure if I was meant to make the post myself or if Collin was gonna do it. Serves you right for listening to something made by idiots.

If you have any story or account you want to have us read and talk about tomorrow, post it below.
No. 43715
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>people or events that changed one's life.
I haven't had many singular moments like that, and tbh have come to identify with the protagonist in The Beast in the Jungle. First a warning, this is a major spoiler for anyone who hasn't yet read the classic story by Henry James. In that story, as James put it, the protagonist realizes "he had been the man of his time, the man, to whom nothing on earth was to have happened".
A bit melodramatic, but whatever :D
Anyway, there is an event which undoubtedly served as a metaphorical boulder-diverting the river that is my life from one course, to another(sorry, I'm still being melodramatic, aren't I?). That occurred when I was 10, and my mother-for reasons I never understood-decided to pull myself, and my siblings, out of school(I should note that I wasn't bullied, and we weren't religious). So up through 5th grade I attended a normal public school, but after that I was homeschooled.
Up until then I was more or less well adjusted socially-had a group of close friends and such. But, when they continued to attend classes every day while I stayed at home, we drifted apart. After a year we no longer spoke and I began actively avoiding anyone my own age. Fast forward to 19, and I attended university, basically reentering the world after years of talking only to my siblings and store clerks. There is always a debate about nature vs. nurture in determining personality, and to be fair I was always introverted, but I have to think that this event stunted my social development.
No. 43735
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>I haven't had many singular moments like that
While I also find it hard to single out events which solely have enough impact to be mentioned here, there are at least some which I think in retrospective had significant influence on my life, for better or worse. One thing that I consider a bad event is my parents deciding not to put me in kindergarten and instead raising me at home from age 3-5. Being Ernst, I could really have used that early social competence training with my age peers, and I had quite a hard time coming into school, being an introvert and facing kids my age who I didn't really know how to talk to and who mostly knew each other, but not me. Luckily, I could play football, that helped a lot getting along with the boys, otherwise I probably would have become a bullying victim.

Another impactful event was the decision to pursue a degree in IT, instead of some liberal arts, which I thought would also be a good fit for me. At the end, I thought IT would feed me better, and even if I screwed up university, I'd still take some useful skills away from it. Probably the best decision of my life: It lead me to jobs I enjoy doing with people I get along with, and I don't have to worry how to fill up my refrigerator. That's nice, because I remember how my mother always had to worry about money when I was a child.

Otherwise, there are of course lots of little things that had impact on my life, but they don't really manifest themselves in a single event. The most glaring one would be my aversion against risks and changes. Most of my life I always avoided risks and new experiences, maybe because most of the major experiences I made were not happy ones, like my parents divorcing and having to move all the time. Still, that hampered me a lot, and I must have emitted a total lack of spontaneity in my youth. I couldn't take it when we went out and someone said "let's go somewhere else instead", because I wasn't prepared for that mentally. I also didn't like it when new people came into our social group, because I always saw them as rivals who would take something away from me. So I rarely made new friends and was stuck with my social contacts from childhood, which eroded away after I was out of school. Sounds mightily stupid today, but that's the way it was, and in contrast to the kindergarten story, I have no one but myself to blame for this.
No. 43740
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You never needed any of those bydlo people with their bydlo things and bydlo interests. Out of all things I'd say that public school played the largest role in mentally and emotionally damaging me to the point of outward hostility against humanity. Maybe it's different in other countries but frankly American public schools as a whole should be abolished or at minimum seriously reformed. I think that has played a stupendous role in making this country so magnificently stupid. Not that this matters in the end however because frankly if you're on the brighter side and already introverted you're never going to be terribly interested in these people to begin with.

I'll never forget my last time I ever went out to a bar some years ago. Now mind you I'd become pretty sociable by that point and had no problem in dealing with people but it was loud, too loud to hear, the music fucking sucked, I was with my coworkers none of whom I frankly cared about and most of whom I havent so much as seen since, with overpriced cheap shitty drinks and I had to use the excuse of smoking to go outside and shitpost on KC of all places just to get some relief. Moreover it put in stunning relief the extent to which I'd formerly drank myself to death because anything short of anesthesia forced me to confront the amorality or open moral turpitude of my contemporaries, not least of which was what I perceived to be their full lack of loyalty to one another, the ultimate triviality of the relationships between many of these people, and a seemingly intentional maneuver through cranking music I always hated to a level that no one could possibly enjoy to ensure that no meaningful discussion could possibly take place. I wouldnt even mind the slagdom of it all were it not for the fact that even that was quite plainly just another release valve for people alienated from themselves and each other rather than actually taking a sincere interest in each other.

Just little odd things like that godawful song "fuck the pain away" people played in college came to sharpest relief, or that shitty 50 cent song "I'm into sex I ain't into makin love." It's not just the fact of the idiocy of it all or its trivialness and banality, but the sheer repulsiveness of it all. Gradually I came to understand that even if I could become excellent at social camouflage, excelling far beyond even those social butterflies around me, to what purpose? I fucking despised this society, I despise its culture, and I despise its values and perhaps most of all I despise the perversity against nature that had become of its people. I want absolutely fucking nothing to do with any of these creatures period and I want no part in their lives either nor its toxic superficial culture poisoning and rotting me anymore, which extends also to imageboard culture.

The purpose of an institution like public schooling itself is to convince a mass of normal healthy cells to become so cancerous they are no longer even aware of it, to the extent they think they actually want it, and for most are willing to suffer and put up with absolutely anything at all because most mundanes are social creatures. You can inflict literally anything upon them and they will still tolerate it in seeking company, even if it is a gulag or DPRK prison camp, a konzentrationslager, a ridiculous money draining bad soap opera cult, a "political" "movement" that rejects the most basic scientific fact of XX/XY, a culture that believes in and practices ritual genital mutilation on infants, they will do any and all of those things and they will openly defend them as a function of their socializing no matter how grotesque or imbecilic the cultural practices.

There is no profit to be found in going native among those people. You will only end up exactly where you started, poorer and more wrecked and troubled for your efforts, and what's worse is you will be even that much farther from ever finding such a kindred spirit to begin with if you still bother to seek them. So leave these people to their faggy movements and puerile and need for belonging because ultimately what will pass for you will not for them.

If I come across as unduly pretentious, caustic, arrogant, pompous, presumptuous, and needlessly filled with bile, I'll say that I meant every single jot and tittle of it after a lifetime of having to actively dumb myself down and "not use big words" around others and just generally being forced to stunt myself in the company of others, and it is profoundly character warping. Be thankful that you at least were blessed to have your stroggificafion process arrested at some time in your life. If you want to lead a pic related type of life then there's still nothing stopping you.
No. 43743
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Collin has been MIA for a while and I'm not able to reach him. I'll postpone the show one hour and if he's not here then I'll attempt to draft some other Ernst and keep the show going.

No. 43744
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>Collin has been MIA for a while and I'm not able to reach him.
He's offline on all media I know. Still hope he will show up after that one hour. If not, and no one else is volunteering, I'd be happy to act as a stand-in if you like. An unfunny, bad-at-understanding-spoken-english stand-in, if I may add!
No. 43747
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I might have messed up a little, but I'm sure we can all agree it was Collin's fault. Show has been postponed for tomorrow.

We appreciate your understanding and will not hold it against you if you decided to boycott this show for good. pls tune in tomorrow :DD, same time.
No. 43748
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>but I'm sure we can all agree it was Collin's fault
After hearing both sides of the story I carefully considered that I don't care for facts and thus agree that Colin is to blame! Also: Meta as fuck, given the topic is
>Collin and myself will be talking about people or events that changed one's life
You just changed the lives of every single listener by postponing the show. IQ200 move, making us experience the meaning of the title first hand.
No. 43756
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>If you want to lead a pic related type of life then there's still nothing stopping you
No, that's really not for me :D. While I admit to my limited abilty to engage in normal social things, I have little desire to do them either. Funny how that works.
Your post is well taken, though. Homeschooling certainly changed my life, but not in an entirely bad way. My unorthodox socialization left gaps which I had to overcome(how many steps away should I be before nodding hello? :D), but I was able to develop free from institutional molding, and remain comfortable in my own company. That's no small thing. And yeah, I also avoided the pile of negative experiences which likely would have attended my high school attendance. (Sorry, I just had to phrase it that way :D). Would I have broken? Conformed in order to be liked? That sounds awful, tbh, and luckily I never faced sufficient social pressure to know how I may have reacted.

>You just changed the lives of every single listener by postponing the show.
Good point, our life is directed by small engagements, as well as large ones. Now, tomorrow evening I'll be here instead of...I don't know, where is it people go....I'll be here instead of at the local sock hop, and the changes will cascade from there into infinity :D.

No. 43788
>but I'm sure we can all agree it was Collin's fault
You little shit. I have image proof that it's yours.

Anyway folk, we start in an hour and 15 minutes.
So 23:00 Istanbul time/21:00 Lissabon time.
No. 43790
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>You little shit. I have image proof that it's yours.
First the racist tirade, now the lies. Have you no shame?

>Good point, our life is directed by small engagements, as well as large ones
True, and most of them feel pretty random tbh. Meeting people I easily could have missed, or maybe having missed people I could easily have met in an alternate universe. Getting rejected in a job interview and landing a better one afterwards. Being injured in sports becuase on an unlucky collision, but maybe I avoided lots of looming injuries before by just an inch, who knows? It just feels that a lot of dices are rolled all the time, and only very few of them are adjusted consciuosly by ourselves. I even think that we even don't notice the vast majority of those dices when they're rolled.
No. 43791
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We are going live in under 10 minutes!

Do no pay attention to Colin's rant presented in
His views do not represent the show or my own. I tried to talk him out of this racist tirade.
No. 43792
Max is loud, colin is quiet
No. 43793
>Serious Discussions - Topic: Failure by Kosmonauten
>but the topic isn't failure
>that in itself is a failure
>so it actually fits the topic again
>but if it fits, it's not a failure any longer
>so the topic isn't met after all
>even the reasoning now is circular and a failure
It's a clusterfuck of failure!

>they remember the balls story
Awww, thanks guys! It was balltouching for me, too :DD
No. 43794
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>he realized he was cancer, so he continued to spread the cancer
When you realize which side you're on, you might as well give the best for your team!
No. 43795
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No. 43797
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>what did you do to this poor woman
I laughed!
No. 43798
A teacher once marked an answer wrong because I slightly misspelled a territory in Japan. Pissed me off, he knew what I meant. But your suffering was worse, Max.
No. 43799
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>teacher stories
I like people who hate injustice. Makes me mad, too, when something is labeled wrong despite being correct, or the same things are treated differently just because they are done by someone else. After all, even if you overlook the injustice itself, that makes the world even more complicated, unreliable and unpredictable.

I remember lots on instances where I said something and no one cared. Then someone else said the same thing and everyone was like "Yeah, good idea" and all the girls were like "ooh so funny let's have sex". Well, exaggerated of course, but I think you get the picture. Made me realize that charisma is a superpower and that I probably never will be a successful car or insurance salesman.
No. 43800
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>people think I'm a functional member of society, but it's a sham
If your sham is so good that no one notices, wouldn't it be the most reasonable thing to assume that everyone else's appearance is also a sham and no one else notices? I mean, from your perspective it's 1 out of 1 people who exist like this, that makes an expected value of a whopping 100% for everyone else.
No. 43801
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>Iron Maider - The Trooper on electric guitars
Based! Also: give mp3 of you playing it. I'll give mp3 of me badly playing AC/DC - Hells Bells in return.
No. 43802
I was listening to this song when I first started going to the gym. I heard it this morning and it reminded me of that "get your shit together" period of my life.

Vance Joy -Riptide

I was scared of dentists and the dark
I was scared of pretty girls and starting conversations
No. 43804
128 kB, 677 × 595
>mmmh, germanic head
I do that every day with my own head. Is that a bad thing?
No. 43805
>get your shit together
Still working on it, colin.
No. 43806
6 kB, 184 × 184
>I can't believe that people are interested in the garbage we have to say
Well, at least it's different garbage like my own garbage, with which I'm stuck every day.
No. 43807
You want cringe?
The scene: Me, trapped sitting at a table at a party I do NOT want to be at(a work thing).
The goal: Get the hell out of there.
My legs: Stand, Pause,(Walk away you idiot!), Sit back down.
"Just stetching, ha ha"
An hour later I tried again and escaped.
The lesson: Never sit down, it makes running away a lot harder.
No. 43809
227 kB, 793 × 736
The following story is maximum cliche, but I swear it happened: I was out with a girl I was interested in, but the date didn't go well, we didn't get along and later at night we were on our way back in my car. She was a little drunk and asked me to drive her to some random guy, because she wanted to fuck him now. I carefully considered my options here:

  1. drive her home instead => nothing gained, probably lots of complaining on the way
  2. throw her out of the car => maybe morally justified, but still a bitch move
  3. drive her to that guy and forget about her
So I drove her to that guy and basically buried that topic. Next morning she texted me how horrible that night with that other guy was, but still: I'm the meme beta guy who drove his then-love interest to another guy so that they could fuck.
No. 43810
two weeks from now, same time
topic is going to be "shame"

thanks for tuning in guys, you're the best
No. 43811
131 kB, 220 × 165, 0:03
Great show guys, thanks.
No. 43812
300 kB, 185 × 164, 0:01
Thanks guys, great show, great entertainment. It was much more enjoyable than you guys are thinking. Also glad to see that many people were listening, 6.18 average listeners is a mighty number for our tiny Radio Ernstiwan!

>topic is going to be "shame"
Two full weeks of waiting? What a shame! Seriously: Glad that you'll be back on air so soon.
No. 43822
fuck, missed it. gonna tune in next time
No. 44435
I'm waiting for response from Max. It would be a shame if he forgot about it.

but we'd just have a comfy evening together with good music and whatever you got on your chest, we can talk about it, Ernst :3
No. 44438
Max is just living up to our expectations about Kosmonaut quality standards
No. 44439
anyway, we're on air now
No. 44440
4,2 MB, 2780 × 1853
As this is an open topic night, I would like to discuss why there are some animals which are regarded as cute or beautiful, while others are seen as uninteresting, as food or in the worst case as vermin. I just saw a hedgehog and I was looking delighted at it. I wouldn't have been interested if it turned out it was a bird, and if it turned out to be a rat or a giant spider/cockroach I would have been frightend.
No. 44442
57 kB, 798 × 584
63 kB, 798 × 584
Good question, especially when you think that this varies betweeen different cultures. For us, dogs are cute and pigs/cows are food, but for hindus cows are holy, and for muslims pigs are haram. I wonder if there are cultures where for example rats are perceived as cute.

This, the assimilation process is complete!
No. 44443
I think size has a lot to do with defining cuteness. A cat is cute, but a full grown tiger isn't. I assume this relates to my perception of their relative vulnerability; do they need to be protected, or do I need protection.
I love birds, and always find them beautiful, but don't always find them cute. So "cute" remains a subset of the "beautiful" classification.
Now insects I find beautiful in a different way, one which borders on facination at their varied shapes and colors, but I can't exactly pinpoint what triggers that within me.
No. 44444
"cock[...]s [...] are cute. They're huge!" - Colin
No. 44445
56 kB, 390 × 546
>Serious Discussions: Without Max but still with Colin
Why does Colin lie? And now he tries to blame everything on poor Max, and now he even kicks him out of the stream. What a bully!

Also: Ernst does not really feel a lot of shame just like Colin. He is aware of his shortcomings, but he rarely feels shame for it. There are some occurences where he was ashamed, for example there was one when he was a little drunk already tried to make a compliment to a girl I liked and it went horribly wrong. It wouldn't translate properly into english, but roughly I wanted to say that she is nice albeit being quiet, and I ended up saying that I think she's ugly, because apparently I can't speak my own language. She definitely didn't deserve that, and Ernst still feels pretty ashamed about that.

I think that applies to most of Ernsts life: He isn't ashamed because he struggles in some fields, but he is when he knows he made people feel bad who didn't deserve it.

Those numbers, they are telling the truth.
No. 44446
Wild animals live in constant danger, while domesticated animals are relatively safe. That safety may allow them to develop different parts of their brain, including more complex emotions-like shame.
I recall another ernst posting videos of animals becoming friends with what would normally be their prey-iirc it was a bird and a cat. This is the result of both animals feeling comfortable and safe in their environment. The removal of external threats enables inward growth, both in humans and animals.
No. 44447
>She definitely didn't deserve that, and Ernst still feels pretty ashamed about that.
Have you apologized to her? It probably won't matter to her, but if it does, she'll be happy and you'll feel better, too.
Und was hast du genau gesagt? Will lachen :3
No. 44448
7 kB, 300 × 169
>Have you apologized to her?
Yeah, I did. Don't know if that helped, she still looked quite embarrassed. At least no one else did hear it. Still, one of Ernsts darkest hours.
Ich habe gesagt, dass ich sie für unscheinbar halte. Dachte das bedeutet, dass sie still ist und sich nie in den Mittelpunkt stellt. Aber das tut es nicht ;_;

>I think size has a lot to do with defining cuteness
Makes sense. Anything that appeals to parental instincts will also work when it's featured on animals.
No. 44449
106 kB, 854 × 618
No. 44450
501 kB, 480 × 362, 0:01
I appreciate bees, but I still don't think they are cute and I want them to fuck off. Same goes for mosquitos, flys, wasps, hornets and everything related.
No. 44451 Kontra

but that is what unscheinbar means, somebody who is not remembered because they don't stick in peoples mind. Be it because they don't speal a word or a blant to these persons. Ugly is something very different.

t. not listening, just taking a small break from reading
No. 44452
There are way more diffenrents between bees and wasps. Bees don't just produce honey, but they also pollinate plants and play a substantial role in eco systems, while wasps are just there to annoy you if you have food and stich you if they are bored or for what reason they come up with.
No. 44453
129 kB, 210 × 330
Did Ernst ever try to make somebody else feel ashamed for something? Like calling someone else out for an evil deed?
No. 44454
Colin, when he forgets he's a Kosmonaut.
No. 44455
64 kB, 435 × 397
Colin is getting roasted! Very good.
No. 44456
38 kB, 640 × 360
>external shame, embarrassment of other people
I know that feel. There are some parts of movies and video clips I just can't bear to watch and I have to skip it. Of course I don't have an example ready, what a shame!
No. 44457
Something I heard once:"pride is not the opposite of shame, it is the source of shame".
The meaning is that in order to feel shame, we first need to establish a "correct" behavior-behavior we take pride in upholding. After that, shame accompanies our deviation from that standard. The logical conclusion to that line of thought is that a person who becomes sufficiently humble will avoid feelings of shame. I don't know if that's true, and tbh this came from a sermon I was listening to, so maybe the preacher was just using the angle to condemn pride as a sin. But still, I think there is something to the idea. Pride and shame are connected, and you can't have the capacity for one without the other.
Think of a dog, who can display shame. When play fighting over a stick or rope, when they win they trot and hold their head high, grinning. That's the other side of shame-canine pride.
No. 44458
23 kB, 455 × 340
>The meaning is that in order to feel shame, we first need to establish a "correct" behavior-behavior we take pride in upholding
I like that thought that you can't have shame without a violation of some kind. I think it doesn't even need to be a situation in which other people are affected, so that the norm is visibly violated. It already can be enough if that correct behaviour is accepted by oneself as the norm. So violating it will still trigger an emotional response, no matter if there was anyone around to witness it.

That said, having no witnesses seems to greatly lower the bar for what would be called shameful behaviour - or so I heard.
No. 44459
504 kB, 600 × 528, 0:07
>There's no excuse in chess
Of course there is, they were using an engine! Every single one of those fuggin cheaters who beat you!

Also: This episode has turned into the Virgin Colin vs. the Chad Max show!
No. 44460
>I never do wrong
Unfortunately I made a different experience with Colin. After I bought a new bass guitar I left it at Colin's place because I couldn't play it at that moment and we wanted to meet the other day anyways to have a jam session. Later that Colin called me and said that the corpus of the bass guitar had split due to the difference of the very cold outside, and the sudden warmth climate of his flat. Later after he convinced me that my brand new bass was broken and was really desperate, he and a mutual friend (or maybe he was a foe), startet laughing and telling me that they were just trolling me. I never forgave him for what he did, I hope Colin will die of super Aids.
No. 44461
173 kB, 497 × 396
>having no witnesses seems to greatly lower the bar for what would be called shameful behaviour
Agreed. I think that's because the we want people to see us in a good light, and public failures undermine this. So while a private failure leads to internal turmoil, there are no social repercussions.
No. 44462
443 kB, 2087 × 996
True. So the basic concept doesn't change, it's just the ruleset that may vary, depending on the situation.
No. 44463
23 kB, 480 × 360
>he shows up with a dead corpse in his hand
Well, that would be too much for me. If the corpse was still alive I'd maybe make an exception.
No. 44464
"Even if you killed somebody, I wouldn't turn you in".

Best Seinfeld scene
No. 44465
I'm gonna expose Collin and press him for answers on this after the break
No. 44466
The more I think about this the more I wonder that it might be correct or have something to it, except that I would add shame is likewise necessary thing to correct behavior because I can tell you that I've been utterly shameless for vast swaths of my life. In fact shame is so close to a foreign thing to me I really have to think about it and what could have possibly damaged my pride enough that I felt genuine shame. Thinking on it, it's probably either something so outrageous it damages self image and standing to others, or more importantly is such wanton immoral behavior that it well damages my self image I could possibly conceive to do such a thing. But I don't think that that actually excuses any of my other misbehavior and more to the point, is the opposite of being connected to humility because I clear felt no such thing in all that time. Largely I'm thinking of drunken misbehavior. In fact I would go so far as to say that I was arrogant, and that if anything humility is the opposite of arrogance, neither of which is necessarily even connected to pride or shame because bother are emotions and are not thoughts. Whereas I'm not a largely emotive person neither of these things typically has much of a bearing on me, but thoughts do. I don't think emotion has much to do with good morals either, although it can be instructive of it, but likewise so is any form of pain or suffering potentially even if emotions make it augmented and the lack thereof simply makes you more prone to moral retardation.

I likewise dispute the fact that pride is so negative. It is a good thing to take well measured pride in something, such as your work or your children. Do note--pride. These things are not necessarily even connected to or certainly not the same as the biblical concept of pridefulness, which is much closer to the English term of arrogance. It does feel bad man. Out of all my numerous sins, I'm probably most prone to the absolute worst which is sheer arrogance, not to mention my adoration of wrath. Khorne can go fuck himself though.

Actually I think that just about the only sin I'm not so prone to is envy, and that's just because even feeling too much of that would conflict with my own arrogance and contemptuousness.

Good on you for going to church though. I really wish I could find a place to go back to but one of the terrible things I've realized over the years is that as Bill Hicks said, "I think the devil put you here to test my faith dude." I know it's also a pride thing but dealing with other Christians is really damaging feeling to my faith somehow, which I intellectually know only signifies my own weakness thereof, for if you could lose some faith by dealing with others you never had that true love for God to begin with. It's just that American protestants and particularly Evangelicals are so wildly foreign to everything I thought I knew about Christianity it becomes hard to bare. I feel like I am dealing with a foreign barbarian people who know the right words but speak it in a totally foreign language. My pastor actually asked that thought experiment one day of what he thought a person might think coming to Church who'd had solely the Bible to instruct himself on and I'm sitting there thinking like "well me.and I think that a lot of what you're saying or focusing on is added or doesn't even make sense Scripturally and is missing the entire point."

Whenever the pandemic is finally over in this country I really want to find a few different places to take services in including a Catholic sermon, a Russian or other Slavic Orthodox, and a Copt. Probably also go to Temple for good measure. I suspect I'll enjoy the company of Copts.

As for the Russians it's really odd seeing their priest guys because it's strangely natively instinctive to me it's just that I always thought that what I was doing was the occult regardless of how much I often used similar looking things to signify what basically amounted to Christian concepts. I still use my Alpha and omega sigil everywhere and some other stuff.

I mean even the layout of his runes looks pretty much to an exactitude of how I would format it. This confuses me because to the best of my knowledge I don't have any Russian DNA.only Polishyes yes all jokes aside. So they at least look like they should or could be my people, but I am also painfully well aware of the propensity for corruption within the Tsarist and revived Federation church and the degree to which they could likewise be foreign to me.

I mean really I think that if I experienced all of them I'd just end up at the end of the day sitting down to write a bunch of autistic letters to each of them, praising them for keeping the faith, "but even so" and then outlining at length something I find to be some worthy criticism from within each of the major world churches for moral failings and deviating from The Faith, which sadly would include one particularly harshly worded letter directed towards the Roman Catholic Church for one of the profoundest and most outwardly Satanic moral failings of a religious organization that I have ever witnessed, which has by extension caused more extreme damage to Christendom as a whole than any of the fedoras in history. I can think of nothing so rotten and evil as not only raping a child, but having done so in a church, in a frock, as a priest, while preaching the Word; I would not forgive many of them for having disputed the Holy Ghost in such manner.
No. 44467
25 kB, 300 × 522
>helping out friends despite they fucked up
I got into an argument about this with some of my friends in the past: Some of those guys were troublemakers and sometimes got into fights, and while of course denying it most of the times it actually was their own fault. I rarely was around when shit went down, mainly because I'm a huge coward and not into physically violence, sowhen it became apparent that people were out for fights, I mostly bailed before it got serious. But still we somehow had that topic if I'd join them in a fight to help them, no matter the circumstance, and I said no. I said that I'd help them if they get attacked, but if they stir up shit by themselves, they can't rely on me. For me, justice had the higher value than blind loyality.

Obviuosly, that wasn't very well received, and I guess the majority of people would consider that a character flaw, but besides not really wanting to get into a fight, I'm also too assburger to just throw my principles overboard because someone else behaves like a dick.
No. 44469
Thanks for confronting him with the truth, even though he unsurprisingly showed no remorse. Hopefully one day he will face the consequences of his evil actions. Karma kind of hit him already as one day all his electronic devices broke at the same time, but that could be also, because he uses Linux instead of Microsoft.
No. 44470
I have to confess that I don't attend church, but listen to sermons online. Tbh, this is very on-topic because I feel true shame over that. I should attend, and even want to, but still fail to actually do it. Someday I know God's going to get me through those doors.
Part of the reason I don't is that same Bill Hicks idea. Right now my understanding of the faith is theoretical, untainted by experience with other Christians. I don't want to lose that. That's not the sole reason, though. There are other social avoidance reasons, too of course.
And I agree that pride-seperate from pridefulness-can be good and useful. In my life the desire to experience pride keeps me focused on tasks solely so that I can have that moment of pride upon completion.
No. 44471
it was a thrill guys, love every single one of you

see you in two weeks at the same time (21:00 Lisbon/23:00 Istanbul)
No. 44472
20 kB, 300 × 225
Great show, guys! It was entertaining from the first conversation about cockroaches all the way through to the final debate about God.
No. 44484 Kontra
300 kB, 605 × 710
Great show yesterday. Fell asleep during the final 15 minutes (which means that I've probably missed around 100 times when Colin was insulted), because I was tired out to the MAX. But it was worth every second.
No. 44871
I'm not gonna be able to be here for the show, as I am forced to work on the day of the Lord. Sorry, Ernst.
No. 44882
No problem, we just gonna do it one week later.
Without Max, everything's nothing anyway. ;_;