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No. 40156
163 kB, 1400 × 932
Corona Thread #2

Everything related to the virus and it's impacts on whatever goes in here.
>>
No. 40157
https://strelkamag.com/en/article/18-lessons-from-quarantine-urbanism?fbclid=IwAR1hrpf3aH8gHBpcZ542S7D_Uyf6grv8HXgNW1MIHoF-hsGsl7DeNdpA2qU

Interesting read. Bratton is something like a design theorist, he comes from an interdisciplinary institute that deals with new technology, design and culture and ensures to have a pragmatic side to the educational path.

Anyway. He presents 18 "lessons" that the virus is teaching us and that could have an effect on how the world might be "after corona" since it showed a lot of flaws.

>Vigilance should be held not against the “exception” on behalf of familiar norms, but against the return to those dysfunctional norms after the coast is declared clear. We must keep the focus trained on the pathologies revealed and in doing so willfully inhabit the difficult ramifications of change.

I like the idea of comperative governance

>How different systems respond will change how political cultures evaluate their traditions. Brazil is failing, Singapore is succeeding, Iran is failing, Hong Kong is succeeding. Some aspects of central command and control have worked, others have not, some strengths of Western liberalism have worked in response to the virus, while other aspects are leaving their societies in a numb, incoherent daze. Each system faces the same test at the same time. The results are plain to see.

The last lesson title Revenge of the Real is interesting as it can be seen as an allusion to the Trump government and how the US are dealing with skyrocketing numbers and how it was handled before it it the US:

>What now? This moment should be a death blow for the populist wave of recent years, but will it be? Populism despises experts and expertise, but right now people desire competence. At this moment, dry, prepared, trustworthy, available, adaptable, responsive technocratic foresight and effectiveness seem like the most idealistic politics imaginable. Yet, the human ability to bend facts to favored narratives remains incredible. The global contagion and the varied responses by different societies have exposed ideologies and traditions as ineffective, fraudulent, and suicidal. What is required is less a new narrative or a new art than acceptance of how the rapid intrusion of an indifferent reality can make symbolic resistance futile. The pre-existing conditions now exposed clarify the need for a geopolitics based not on self-undermining prisoner’s dilemma tactics in the face of common risks, but on a deliberate plan for the coordination of the planet we occupy and make and re-make over again. Otherwise, this moment really will be a permanent emergency. [emphasis by me]
>>
No. 40181
1,6 MB, 480 × 320, 0:25
In the last 5 days the death toll has nearly doubled, was like 34,000 officially dead on 30 Mar, now on the 4 April there's 64,000 dead
>>
No. 40187 Kontra
413 kB, 524 × 511
>Reading BBC article "How close are we to a vaccine/cure?"
>Even if we developed a vaccine, there wouldn't be enough of it, at least during the first phases of production
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No. 40200
356 kB, 670 × 637
279 kB, 1502 × 266
83 kB, 1024 × 395
55 kB, 624 × 496
>>40181
It's funny but the Chinese numbers are clearly wrong. My country is even now probably still behind them, although at the going rate I'd say we'd probably have exceeded China's actual numbers within the next week or two.

In other news I can now wear masks. Not because the CDC said so, oh lord no--the company is still maintaining the no mask policy--but rather because I'd finally had it and this time had something official finally backing me I just said fuck it and I guess they're just going to leave me be and let me wear masks. It's like, the fuck?

>>40157
Well you should read the above post and think real long and hard about it. There's a lot to hate about Communism particularly the Chinese variant and Chinese in general but even when you can parse through their lying and incompetence it is quite clear there's certain aspects of Socialist societies that are just superior to Capitalist ones. Corporate doesn't want us wearing masks because of bullshit optics reasons and I know for a fact I am very far from being the only company this way. You should consider every pigheaded and retarded thing we have done so far and particularly an even more highly classist society like Britain and it just becomes so painfully obvious how blatantly inferior Capitalism generally is for numerous problems and I think the fact even the most hardline neoliberals and Republicans are now backing overtly Socialist policies in one last ditch effort to save the stock market and it becomes blatantly obvious how shit our model is structurally and culturally.

I likewise think that the Europeans have generally handled things well and thankfully have the kind of systems architecture to properly handle this but with two very notable exceptions: borders and wilkommen culture. Those two things put the nail in Europeans' coffins. Were it not for the open borders and fast travel among the continents citizens and the absolutely retarded as shit woke SJW culture of hugging viruses Europe probably would've been somewhat fine in spite of their inferior neoliberalism.
this is also why I actually don't agree with open borders which has fucking nothing to do with fear of brown people, and which will not be ameliorated at all by having dumb shit like border wells because every inbound flight is dropping viral bombs. My entire mentality regarding this has everything to do with biological quarantines which I've tried telling people for years and now they're finally figuring out why and that this isn't a right wing or left wing issue, but a medical and biological one however the strand of anti-intellectualism in any society makes it doomed to fail eventually and that's part of what you're seeing happening now
>>
No. 40218
>>40200
>borders and wilkommen culture. Those two things put the nail in Europeans' coffins.

Well, the article I posted mentioned the lack of controls in that situation. Or people being put together as they arrive via plane at the airport, perhaps infecting one another. You could have open borders, but when a virus occurs you have to have test capacities and other capacities for meassurements to be taken must be there as well. People coming from Italy and not being tested etc. is a problem, not that they actually went to or came back from Italy.
>>
No. 40221 Kontra
167 kB, 1098 × 858
lol
>>
No. 40222 Kontra
>>40200
>There's a lot to hate about Communism particularly the Chinese variant and Chinese in general
Anarchist tier

>borders and wilkommen culture
Willkommenskultur hast shitjack to do with this, this is a problem of buisness travel and tourism, not refugees.
>>
No. 40230
>>40222
It's common sense tier.
>>
No. 40231 Kontra
>>40222
Not shutting our borders down and stopping all flights from China had a lot to do with that retarded mentality because telling the Chinese to fuck off for awhile was considered "racist."
>business
>tourism
Hence me talking about air borders generally and by wilkommen culture what I meant by that had nothing to do with refugees and everything to do with the same retarded as fuck attitude you can see displayed in two of those pictures I posted, with one idiot telling everyone yes go to Chinatown everything is fine, other idiots hugging people from China, just this idiotic mindset these people have. Do note: that I am not picking sides here. I am underwhelmed to flat out appalled by the handling of this crisis by literally everyone I've seen so far except maybe like Andrew Cuomo or something, with right wing politicians being generally even worse, but not that that's relevant either when you also have Spain still hosting some feminist parade because muh votes muh coalition reasons and look at Spain now. Likewise I can only imagine Brazil fucked itself with Carnival.

You simply cannot take the kinds of precautions you need to take when muh stocks muh approval rates or political feefees override basic common sense. All our cases outside of China began because of Chinese people visiting other countries. They should've banned all flights into every other country immediately, and that was hampered directly by for instance in our country Chuck Schumer who called it "premature" and were more worried about whether it looked racist or not. Then once the SJWs helped ensure we got infected a bunch of right wing populists ensured that it spread like absolutely fucking crazy and told everyone to go back to work sick or trying "herd immunity" which would guarantee the total medical collapse.

I feel like a powerless Tywin Lannister looking out upon the realms. Everywhere all I see is madness, madness and stupidity.
>>
No. 40237
The comments in the video are hysterical
https://amp.cincinnati.com/amp/2948729001
Is this how people have been behaving in your countries?
>>
No. 40239
>>40200
Personally I can understand the hate towards the chinese elite perfectly, because they're really just disgusting pangoline-munchers - next to tons of different other disgusting traits.
Every Corona death in Europe should go on their account and they should never be trusted again.
If it isn't too late already - my guess is that if China is really through with the virus they will completely vampirize Europe now. Anyways, count me in for the anti-chinese resistance in any case.
>>
No. 40244
Germany strong, while neoliberal capitalism once again is an utter disaster for one's nation's folk across its entire breadth.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/germanys-devolved-logic-is-helping-it-win-the-coronavirus-race
>>
No. 40246
160 kB, 1920 × 1080, 0:04
I wonder what's the endgame here?

A treatment basically exists but we just don't have the capacity to apply it. I don't believe that it's a magical virus pneumonia which is cured by eating a single pill.

A vaccine will at max work as good as with influenza. That means there is still a huge number of fatal cases left.

So why are hospitals still not popping up like mushrooms? Germany building big stuff fast, lol I guess this is the only way to win this.
>>
No. 40248
>>40246
>A treatment basically exists but we just don't have the capacity to apply it.
Do you mean the ebola-drug one or the malaria-drug one?
It's not only that we don't have the capacity to use remdesivir on a large scale, but there is also the fact that it doesn't kill the virus, it just slows down it's reproduction rate, so it's only useful in cases that were diagnosed early or are mild.

Though the Japanese apparently have some sort of pill that might prove useful. It's an influenza medication but some say that it also helps with covid.The Chinese are rushing that one into production currently afaik.
>>
No. 40249
>>40231
>Not shutting our borders down and stopping all flights from China had a lot to do with that retarded mentality because telling the Chinese to fuck off for awhile was considered "racist."

In fairness, the images you posted here >>40200 do seem verging on racist and the first appears to be a caricature to rile people up. Being Asian doesn't give you coronavirus, especially not in February for the New Year parade in an American city.

Fuck the Chinese government but from the outside it's noticeable how an 'other' has been found that latches onto American yellow-peril.

>>40244
>Devolution
>Work

Come on, man. The whole argument of the article is that laboratories are somehow stopped from testing by centralisation whereas now there's a bucket-load of officials to tick boxes. It doesn't fit and brushes over that scarcity in staff and resourcing requires solutions from the centre - not to even get into the trouble this creates in statistics.

The subtext of the article is the healthcare environment in Britain which is why it uses devolution instead of federalism. They can't use Britain because administrations are in close collaboration for the crisis and free prescriptions won't fix this.

>>40246
The thing about the multiple coronavirus vaccines in development is that they will also need substantial testing. The tolerance for negative effects is minuscule if this is something we're going to administer to the majority of the human race and I think there's going to be real pressure to raise this tolerance.
>>
No. 40255
>>40249
Every patient zero was Chinese.
>>
No. 40262
>>40246
There isnt a treatment, just a correlation between the application of certain medications and the severity of the corona.
Also it only works if administered very early, basically you have apply it before you like even know you have it.
And noone really knows if, how, or why it really works.

>>40249
>The tolerance for negative effects is minuscule if this is something we're going to administer to the majority of the human race and I think there's going to be real pressure to raise this tolerance.

To me it seems like every government is really pushing hard to use corona as an excuse to develop and administer the first mRNA vaccine.

I am rather suspicious of potential mRNA vaccines as it would be the first of its kind and working on a whole new level.
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No. 40263 Kontra
>>40255
Just shut the fuck up and die already, nobody wants you here, Kohlburger.
>>
No. 40264 Kontra
>>40255
i'm sick of your hate mongering against the chinese. go back to kohl with that bullshit, you stupid prick.
afaik nobody knows covid-19 patient 0 right now, however it is known that you had sars-ncov infections in the usa already in november 2019 or even before, according to the cdc and researchers from taiwan and japan. so it is actually well possible that sars-cov-2 actually originated in north america, just like the a/h1n1 subtype of h1n1 which caused the "spanish flu" pandemic 100 years ago and the "swine flu" pandemic 10 years ago.
>>
No. 40267 Kontra
>>40255
get cyberbullied lmao
>>
No. 40269
439 kB, 622 × 425
>>40263
>>40267
Anusz Mohamed pls
>>
No. 40270
>>40263
>>40264
I don't know why you guys are getting so butthurt.
They haven't said anything particularly edgy or controversial.
>>40249
>In fairness, the images you posted here >>40200 do seem verging on racist and the first appears to be a caricature to rile people up.
I could understand being mad if those images were fake. If they are not fake, then getting angry because they might appear "racist" is stupid.

>>40264
>possible that sars-cov-2 actually originated in north america
Maybe, but I would suspend judgement until a long while after the outbreak. There is conflicting data, and so I would wait for Covid-19 to be studied more and for different institutions to corroborate each other's research.
Anyway, this seems more of a way to "one up" that American's perceived racism, and less of an actual concern for the genuine facts of the outbreak. If he hadn't written those posts, you wouldn't have responded with the implication that it started in the US.
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No. 40271
89 kB, 800 × 420
>>40263
I am a recognizable poster here. That simply didn't require a textwall.

>>40264
The fuck? Haha oh, let me guess you actually believe that b.s. propaganda China tried desperately to spread that it was a US made bioweapon right? And if you want to talk about historical diseases not only did the black death itself come from China (this is a known and undisputed historical fact) but the Spanish flu itself has been theorized to have originated in both France and China as well as the US, so it may have also been Chinese but historical data is unclear on the origin
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/
https://international.thenewslens.com/article/93408 this is a Taiwanese news media outlet btw
So it is entirely possible that cesspit of Nurgle also gave us the Spanish flu.
>spreading since November
Great claim with no fact to snack that up. I do know however where you're getting that retarded conspiracy theory.
>Swine flu
Originated in Mexico
>Avian flu
Originated in China
>SARS
Made in China
>the Black Death
Made in China
>SARS-COV-2 aka "Covid19"
Made in China
>Spanish flu
Likely made in China

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/southern-china-hotbed-disease-development
https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2020/02/18/why_do_new_disease_outbreaks_always_seem_to_start_in_china.html
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/china-ground-zero-future-pandemic-180965213/
Hell, China was literally battling the plague right when this coronavirus was starting. Can you guess why?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/18/china-records-third-case-of-deadly-bubonic-plague
I was paying attention to China way back in the winter because I heard plague cases were being reported there. That's what drew my eye to diseases in China which then at very close to the same time they wind up with this disease.
>racism
The virus originated in China; the virus was spreading in China. Ergo, it was Chinese people helping to spread it everywhere and up until sometime in February every case was being sparked by Chinese tourists or people visiting relatives in other countries. I'm pretty sure South Korea, Japan (this one I'm not so sure), Iran, America, and Italy among others were all sparked by Chinese people. We can prove this via genetic sequencing too that all these local clusters originated from people coming from China, most of them from Wuhan
https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1239427195992305665
We also know for a fact in lots of cases that it was a specific Chinese person sparking the local clusters that rapidly grew into local epidemics. For example, in Germany
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-04/german-coronavirus-outbreak-began-with-patient-who-had-symptoms
These cases spread initially because--as if this elementary fact had to be stated--Chinese people left their country via plane and spread the virus that had been spreading in China all over the place outside of China
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3047835/china-coronavirus-singapore-reports-fifth-confirmed-case
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No. 40272
>>40270
He wrote that because Chinese propagandists have been busy at work spreading that retarded conspiracy theory. There is zero evidence it was spreading here and moreover it is poltards who are mainly interesting in the idea that it was already spreading. MIGAtards have been spreading this dumbass theory because they've been trying to say this is just a flu that was already circulating here since November and therefore it's nothing to worry about and just the media's way of sabotaging Trump. So it is basically a bunch of trumptards trying to spread Chinese propaganda because they think it's a normal flu libruls are using to make the president look bad.
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No. 40273
89 kB, 960 × 532
>>40271
>Amikäfer trying to deflect from the fact that he is living in a neoliberal, dictatoric shithole by making ridiculous accusations against Chinese people

Amikäfer as usual. It was never easier to see what a neoliberal dictatorship the US are than now,

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/27/all-the-craziest-things-about-america-are-being-highlighted-by-this-virus/

but notorious US-American shitposter turns himself on EC once again into a laughing stock by making ridiculous accusations against Chinese people.

>>40271
>I am a recognizable poster here.

You are recognizable as the cabbageshitposter you are. You always have been.
But please continue to turn also this chan into a shithole like you have done on cabbagechan. :3
>>
No. 40274 Kontra
>>40273
I'm pretty sure that it's the American that always posts about how much he dislikes boomers, Trump, and /pol/.
>>
No. 40275
12 kB, 199 × 298
36 kB, 474 × 338
>>40273
>this fuckin guy
I don't even recognize you dude so I'm pretty sure you're from k*hl. I only even remember seeing you within the last month and mostly because of you being really annoying in particular to the other Germans.
>implying I don't recognize living in a neoliberal freedom hating third world shithole
Like I said, I've posted here at length bitching about it. In fact come to think of it I'm positive not a single other ernst has bitched about my society more than I do. Not one bit of this excuses your retarded whataboutism.
>by making ridiculous accusations against Chinese people.
Every single thing in that post is objective and factual. This plague happened because China is shit from top to bottom, all the way from the highest Politburo authorities who covered it up to the lowliest of bat munchers. Like I said, I'd been watching this story like a hawk because it happened literally right after China was trying to contain a plague outbreak that also started because of Chinese dietary habits.
>whataboutism about America
I'll just anticipate your follow up shitpost and say that dumbfucks in America eating road kill is extremely uncommon and has nothing to do with Chinese indiscriminately eating anything that moves. There are a massive amount of things about my country and its absolutely shit hyper Capitalist dystopian system and not one of them has anything to do with the Chinese unleashing plague upon plague upon us. You'll notice for example no pandemics started here.

I'd further like to add that it is Chinese agricultural practices that are breeding horrific diseases that are going to be resistant to last line antibiotics
https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-china-antibiotic-resistant-genes-20151123-story.html
https://www.drugs.com/news/superbug-surfaces-poultry-farm-china-74285.html
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/14/asia-factory-farming-creating-global-health-risks-report-warns
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2015/11/21/mcr-gene-colistin/

This virus is China's fault. Deal with it.
>>
No. 40276
60 kB, 300 × 100
>>40275
>antibiotica hurr durr
>doesn't know that antibiotica doesn't work against viruses

But makes ridiculous claims against China and various Ernsts here on EC. But please go on, continue turning yourself into a laughing stock on EC.

>https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-china-antibiotic-resistant-genes-20151123-story.html
>https://www.drugs.com/news/superbug-surfaces-poultry-farm-china-74285.html
>https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/14/asia-factory-farming-creating-global-health-risks-report-warns
>https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2015/11/21/mcr-gene-colistin/

Seriously? Do you really think that you can convince any Ernst by posting some arbitrary links here?
Ernst will find tenfold the links concerning the same topic but referring to the US as the main problem.

https://www.unmc.edu/publichealth/cscash/_documents/top5ruralhealthproblem-rwaa.pdf
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/08/huge-levels-of-antibiotic-use-in-us-farming-revealed
https://beyondpesticides.org/dailynewsblog/2020/04/stop-dangerous-proposal-to-allow-genetically-engineered-crops-on-national-wildlife-refuges-in-southeast-u-s/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317215632.htm
https://modernfarmer.com/2015/09/seeding-fear-the-story-of-a-farmer-who-took-on-monsanto/
https://www.intellihub.com/docs-show-how-monsanto-crushes-dissent-with-thousands-of-paid-trolls/
https://onpasture.com/2018/09/24/is-glyphosate-killing-bees/
https://e360.yale.edu/features/declining_bee_populations_pose_a_threat_to_global_agriculture
http://www.growersmineral.com/crops/indepth-articles/glyphosate-and-micronutrients
https://www.wir-sind-tierarzt.de/2015/06/usa-antibiotikaverbote-nutztierhaltung/
https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article138671830/Antibiotika-Einsatz-in-Viehzucht-steigt-weltweit.html

etc..

>This virus is China's fault.
No, it isn’t.

> Deal with it.
No, but I apparently have to deal with you cabbageposting here for some time. ‘_’
>>
No. 40277
56 kB, 320 × 240
>>40275
>I only even remember seeing you within the last month and mostly because of you being really annoying in particular to the other Germans.

lol
The same wrong assumptions and conclusions you have regarding Corona and China, you have towards my person. :3
But of course: You know the truth:'It is China's fault!'
And I am the person, you mean me to be.
Have you had you checked for mental disorders once?
Don't take it as an insult but for serious concerns about your mental health.
>>
No. 40278 Kontra
>>40270
>I would wait for Covid-19 to be studied more and for different institutions to corroborate each other's research.
same here, but i generally don't like assigning country names to dangerous virii. this is pure political propaganda (in this case it's pretty clear burgers try to smear the chinese) and serves no purpose in combating a pandemic at all. there have also been deaths with unusual flu symptoms in lombardy that could be early covid-19 cases, however none of those could be traced back to a patient 0 so far. now it also has been found that certain pets carry the virus as well which complicates the search for the origin further.

>>40271
>Haha oh, let me guess you actually believe that b.s. propaganda China tried desperately to spread that it was a US made bioweapon right?
i don't have an opinion on where the virus originated at this point, but i wouldn't rule out the usa. and yes, the "spanish" flu originated most likely in haskell county, kansas, usa. that's the opinion of most serious virologists, including nobel laureates.
>>
No. 40286 Kontra
>>40276
Antibiotics was clearly a separate issue I listed but related tangentially to the general garden of Nurgle that is China.

And yes you are new here and yes you don't post anything like an ernst. I don't know who you're trying to fool but you act almost like a fucktard from 4kanker given your general obliviousness to the fact that this is a small community with like a dozen of us who've been posting for two years now at least on xyz and with a few like Australia and Kazakhstan having been on EC for many years. You've refuted nothing and you're at this point second only to that godawful Finn in annoying shitposts. It's also quite rich when you post actual borderline mentally ill bs about bioweapons and then proceed to go on some asinine projection spree.
>China
It is very clearly their fault and no one in the world disputes this.
>>
No. 40287
Oh fug boris johnson is in the ICU with the rona.
>>
No. 40291 Kontra
>>40278
>virii
That plural form is wrong. If you want to be smart-ass, do it right.
>>
No. 40292
60 kB, 873 × 429
What's wrong in NYC?
I can not imagine that it's so much worse over there. Do sick people really get zero treatment?
How much is one of the caskets?
>>
No. 40293 Kontra
7 kB, 198 × 264
>>40291
He could use vire / vira, but using viris as locative would be the most smart ass

What would be the "normal" english plural by the way?
>>
No. 40294 Kontra
>>40291
i don't speak english very often and made a mistake. please accept my most sincere apologies, mr beckmesser.
>>
No. 40295
10 kB, 320 × 180
>>40294
But its wrong in any language.
You would need to use "viruses" but I can see that this is absolutely iq89 tier and even virii or virae would be better.

Some may say violence is the language of the stupid. I'd say it's english.
>>
No. 40296
663 kB, 2000 × 1424
>>40291
He >>40278 clearly wanted to write 'vira', but mistyped.
Can happen to the best ones. Ex quo conficitur the question arises, why are you making such a causa magna out of it?
>>
No. 40297
293 kB, 495 × 440
>>40295
Professor Dr. Carlo Schmid, es eum?

>Some may say violence is the language of the stupid. I'd say it's english

I like this statement :3
>>
No. 40298 Kontra
>>40295
"virii" as part of "h/p/v/c/a" was kinda common among computer nerds some 20 years ago. but yes, it's wrong in any language. i never realized it, but thanks to you i stand corrected!
und jetzt hör endlich auf zu nerven! scheinst ein richtiger klugscheißer zu sein.

auch: nicht jeder ernst hat literatur, journalismus oder ein ähnlich schöngeistiges fach studiert. handle mit es!
>>
No. 40299 Kontra
41 kB, 379 × 298
>>40298
Bin nicht >>40291 und Naturwissenschaftler (wirklich, nicht so chemie bsc)
>>
No. 40300
The original Latin is a second declension noun with a neuter gender due to s stem shenanigans despite masculine nominative singular form. The Latin word is singular use only so, as one assburger pointed out, just use "viruses" because we are speaking English.
>>
No. 40304
>>40300
>The Latin word is singular use only

No.
'Vira' (seldom 'vire') is the plural nominative.

Just for the record:
Are you the dumb cabbage-amikäfer from e.g. >>40275 and >>40286?
>>
No. 40305
102 kB, 746 × 690
>>40304
No, those posts are from a different American. And you're wrong.
>>
No. 40306
>>40270
>Maybe
Probably not. It's from China, it's from Wuhan and it's from that fucking wet-market.

I believe this because
1.) The first outbreak we know of was in Wuhan. The outbreak was noticed because patients where dying of atypical pneumonia. We can assume that, if this started in North America in November, North Americans would have noticed. Because with patient zero in November, there would have been exp(0.3**60) = 36 million patients in North America in January, and by today, the whole continent would have either survived the disease or died of it, no more need for quarantines.
2.) The intermediate horseshoe-bat is host to a virus that has a 96% similar genome to SARS-CoV-2 and is native to Southern China, but not to North America.
3.) Chinese wet-markets with many different animals kept and slaughtered in unhygienic and cramped conditions offer many possibilities for a virus to cross the species barrier.

To conclude: we have data (massive Covid-19 outbreak in New York at the end of March, not in February) that makes it very unlikely that Covid-19 was present in North America in November. If it was present, why did it not spread? We have a probable origin in China. We have a likely possibility of transmission from near where the first patients where recorded.

To assume there was Covid-19 in North America in November requires you to do massive mental gymnastics to explain why it did not spread.
To say it started in North America requires you to do massive mental gymnastics to explain where it came from.

>>40304
Latin Wikipedia has the following to say
>Usque hodie homines disputant de declinatione huius nominis. Genus omnes consentiant esse neutrum; auctores autem scriptorum antiquorum pluralem numquam scribebant, quia hoc nomine utebantur modo in sensu muci aut veneni. Genetivo utebantur in formis duabus: viri (saepissime) et virus (tantum apud Ammianum).
Hodie Regimen sanitatis Salernitanum praebet pluralem virus. Tamen secundum normas grammaticas, his formis in usu videtur: vira, virorum.
>Consensus igitur de qua forma pro numero plurali uti hodie non habetur.
>>
No. 40307
>>40286
>It is very clearly their fault and no one in the world disputes this.
It wouldn't have started if they had closed those damn wet markets two decades ago. It could have been contained if they had done something more about it than silencing the doctor who first described it. They waited for shit to hit the fan and then pulled the handbreak. And like monkeys aping their betters, the American, British, French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. governments fucked up even worse. The lesson taken from past near-misses like SARS seems to be
>lol, nothing happened, so we don't have to be prepared, can just ignore the next one
Why wear a hard hat when 5 falling objects have missed you in 2 hours? From statistics, it's easy to predict that they will miss you in the future!

What drives me insane is how the Chinese now spin the plunder that costs the world immeasurable sums into a massive success story.
>>
No. 40309
16 kB, 334 × 453
18 kB, 656 × 303
13 kB, 1112 × 153
7 kB, 1030 × 58
>>40305
> those posts are from a different American.
Convinced. I have thought the same, as the other amikäferball, the one who came here form KC not long ago, appears to be very uneducated and dumb. You don't.

>And you're wrong.
You Non-Bavarians just no longer know, how to speak Latin correctly, whereas we, as the true descendents of Augustus, haven’t unlearned it.

>>40306
>Latin Wikipedia has the following to say
>Usque hodie homines disputant de declinatione huius nominis. Genus omnes consentiant esse neutrum; auctores autem scriptorum antiquorum pluralem numquam scribebant, quia hoc nomine utebantur modo in sensu muci aut veneni. Genetivo utebantur in formis duabus: viri (saepissime) et virus (tantum apud Ammianum).
>Hodie Regimen sanitatis Salernitanum praebet pluralem virus. Tamen secundum normas grammaticas, his formis in usu videtur: vira, virorum.
>Consensus igitur de qua forma pro numero plurali uti hodie non habetur.

If one had been missing evidence that wikipedia was invented by a Bavarian, now you would have found it. Also you, my German brother, you surely must have some Bavarian blood, some sanguinem Augusti et genus sacrum deorum, in you.
>>
No. 40310
>>40306
i also think that the wet market in wuhan was a superspreader, however i wouldn't be so sure that the virus originated there. any infected human or infected pet animal (e.g. cats) who were in wuhan in december could have functioned as a superspreader (like that waitress in ischgl).
>To assume there was Covid-19 in North America in November requires you to do massive mental gymnastics to explain why it did not spread.
no mental gymnastics needed.
  • there wasn't mass testing in the usa before march, the infection rate and covid-19 death rate is therefore simply unknown before broad testing began. this is true for all countries, including germany (we started testing early and tested broadly though, which does play a role with regard to our death rate on paper in comparison to italy and spain although we do have a lot more icu capacity as well). however burgers STILL test A LOT less than we do, their population density is much lower than ours (usa: 33/km²; de: 232/km²) yet they have already more known cases (absolute numbers).

exponential growth curves begin flat and then explode, this would correspond with a patient 0 in a remote rural area with low population density. that area may be in rural china, eastern asia or somewhere else, however thanks to short travel times patient 0 could have spread the virus anywhere on the globe first. to really find out all late 2019 flu related deaths who showed unusual symptoms need to be examined pretty much everywhere. a lot more data is needed to answer that question. i doubt though that politcians like trump or spahn are interested in actually finding out, given how ignorant they act all the time. it's enough for them to point fingers on someone else in order to distract from the fact that it took them 2 fucking months to do something other than uttering "pls, don't panic, it's just a flu in china", "we have everything under control" and "no need to use face masks". i purchased a pack of 25 face masks on amazon in february for 2€ per item, could sell 1 for + 40€ on ebay today. i don't have access to all the information politicians such as spahn have.
>>
No. 40312
>>40309
> You Non-Bavarians just no longer know, how to speak Latin correctly, whereas we, as the true descendents of Augustus, haven’t unlearned it.

:-)
>>
No. 40316
Is Loserbernd on this board?
>>
No. 40323
31 kB, 534 × 607
I've noticed a lot of people on social media complaining about feeling touch starved owing to the social distancing measures. This perspective is surprising to me as my interactions with others have not changed much since the pandemic began.
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No. 40324
22 kB, 515 × 290
>>40323
>and the neet shall inherit the earth
>>
No. 40327
>>40323
Honestly work feels great now that you're mandated to keep your distance and I don't have to see the public regularly. Yeah things getting stupid for various reasons but I don't feel horribly demoralized when getting up now.
>>
No. 40331 Kontra
>>40299
was genau macht deinen studiengang zur richtigen naturwissenschaft und den studiengang chemie zur falschen oder minderwertigen naturwissenschaft?
>>
No. 40333
>>40331
I think there’s a German on here who has an advanced degree in physics. Maybe that’s him.
>>
No. 40334
>>40331
Nicht er, aber ich erkläre es dir:
Chemie ist einfaches Wässerchen-Zusammenkippen für Anfänger mit minimaler Mathe-Exposition. Was ein völlig wertlos-verdummtes Bätschel-Ohr Chemie heute für sein Bolognese-Zertifikat tun muss, hat man früher im Chemie-Unterricht in der 9. Klasse gemacht, an der Realschule. Du bist dumm, wertlos, scheiße und kannst GARNICHTS. Dein Spaghetti-Diplom hat ein theoretisches Niveau vergleichbar mit einem Gesellenbrief, aber ohne jede praktische Ausbildung und ohne Verwertbarkeit auf dem Arbeitsmarkt. Sieht natürlich toll aus in der Statistik.
>Hurrdurr guck unser Bildungsystem hat so viele tumbe Unterschichtsidioten durch die Uni geschleust, so und so viele davon mit tumben Unterschichtseltern, unser Sozialismus funktioniert doch super! Und Mama und Papa freuen sich natürlich auch, wenn dank SPCDU ihr Kind den ich-bin-so-schlau-Schein von der Unität hat, das schafft Wählerstimmen.

Deshalb macht das die linkslinke Drecksregierung dieses Dreckslandes so. In Wirklichkeit offensichtlich höchst teuer, ineffizient und schädlich, da die Berufsanfänger im Betrieb gleich nochmal ausgebildet werden müssen.
In der Schweiz haben Ausbildungen noch einen ganz anderen Stellenwert, da die Matura und das Studium nicht entwertet wurden.

Aber genieße dein Jodel-Diplom, erworben durch Slacklining, Trommelkreise und ONS mit hässlichen Chemie-Studentinnen, du Vogel.
>>
No. 40336 Kontra
>>40333
ok, let's assume he has a phd in physics. regardless of his achieved academic degree physics isn't more superior naturally scientific in character than chemistry.
what's more, every 1st semester chemistry student learns how to research, experiment, document, make a thesis and defend a thesis in a proper scientific manner, just like physics students. so his physics phd definitely makes him a better physicist, but does not make him a superior scientist over a chemistry bsc.
>>
No. 40337
>>40336
There is Cooking, grooming little animals, Mathematics, finding out how your computer can do mathematics better and then there is Physics.
>>
No. 40338 Kontra
>>40336
And yes.
Nobody IRL would disagree but as seen ITT such banter can be big fun
>>
No. 40341 Kontra
>>40338
It's unrelated shit and actually typical of kohl derailing post behavior.

t. did not participate in the shitshow so far.
>>
No. 40342
2,5 MB, 3300 × 2550
>>40310
>i also think that the wet market in wuhan was a superspreader, however i wouldn't be so sure that the virus originated there.
>[...] the wet market was [...] a superspreader
You use that word wrong.

>any infected human or infected pet animal (e.g. cats) who were in wuhan in december could have functioned as a superspreader (like that waitress in ischgl).
Could have, but apparently, did not, since most of the early cases were connected to the seafood market in question.
The person in Ischgl was a bartender. Compared to bartenders in ski ressorts, cats make very unlikely superspreaders. Cats usually don't have contact with hundreds of random strangers every day. Bartenders do. Bartenders yell into peoples faces all night long and touch glasses other people drink from seconds later. Cats don't.

>there wasn't mass testing in the usa before march
The spread of the disease is independent of testing. Your reasoning is along the lines of 'It only exists when I look at it'.
>the infection rate and covid-19 death rate is therefore simply unknown before broad testing began
You say there were somewhere between 10^0 and 10^1 cases in the US in November, right? Let's say this was on the 15th. Now, let's put together what we know to get a very simple model. The serial interval is about 5-7, so, for the sake of simplicity, we take 6. In a naive population, the reproduction number is somewhere around 2.4 and 3.3. But, for your benefit, we will put it at 2.4.
From 15th of November to 1st of March, there are 113 days. 113/6=18.8. 10^0*2.4^18.8 = 14 million. 10^1*2.4^18.8 = 140 million. So with a conservative estimate, there would have been at least millions infected in early March, which would have led to hundreds of thousands or even millions of cases of atypical pneumonia. And you believe this somehow happened, but went unnoticed?

>this is true for all countries, including germany (we started testing early and tested broadly though, which does play a role with regard to our death rate on paper in comparison to italy and spain although we do have a lot more icu capacity as well).
What to conclude from it?

>however burgers STILL test A LOT less than we do
Rate of testing does not affect rate of infections. Again, 'it only exists when I look at it, therefore, it won't have consequences when I don't look at it.'

>their population density is much lower than ours (usa: 33/km²; de: 232/km²) yet they have already more known cases (absolute numbers).
Spread might be slower in communities where the number of interpersonal contacts is much smaller. But for Americans, the number is obviously not 1/10th of the German number. For certain sections of the American population, it might even be higher. Compare an American college student to his German equivalent, for example. The typical German student would share a flat with 3 other students, with each of them having his own room. The American college student might share a room with a roommate, and a kitchen and a shower with 25 other students. I don't think that's common in Germany.
A trueism about sparsely populated areas is that they only contain a fraction of the population. Most Americans live in densely populated areas. Rural counties cover 97% of the American land area, but only 20% of the population lives there. Put differently, 80% of Americans live in 3% of the country. The corridor from Boston to Washington accounts for about 1/10th of American population.
Most Americans aren't potatoe farmers from Idaho who go shopping once a month.

>exponential growth curves begin flat and then explode
A middle-school definition of exponential growth demands a growth rate proportional to the function value in every point. It looks the same everywhere, and you can make it look like it "explodes" everywhere by choosing an adequate scale.

>this would correspond with a patient 0 in a remote rural area with low population density
To wrap it all up: you make up a story where
- a South-East-Asian bat-virus mutates and infects another host, likely a pangolin native to South-East-Asia
- it then infects patient 0 in a rural area of the USA, from where the virus does not spread, because the inhabitants of said rural area do not have much contact with outsiders. (Never mind how the virus got there.)
- then, in November, it randomly pops up in Wuhan, without spreading domestically first. (Maybe the Idaho potato farmer flew a crop duster to Wuhan for a holiday trip.)
And somehow, that's not mental gymnastics?

>to really find out all late 2019 flu related deaths who showed unusual symptoms need to be examined pretty much everywhere
With a naive population and a much higher lethality than all currently endemic flu strains, you'd go looking for unusually high mortality by flu or pneumonia, instead of looking at individual cases. Again, we can assume that those would have been noticed. Of course, someone who wanted to pretend that it's all propaganda to smear China would demand the impossible instead. Like a Russian proofster.

>a lot more data is needed to answer that question.
A localised, unusually high number of cases of atypical pneumonia would have been noticed in any other developed country, same as it has been noticed in China.

>i doubt though that politcians like trump or spahn are interested in actually finding out
It would hardly be Spahn or Trump who'd sift through the data, would it?

>given how ignorant they act all the time. it's enough for them to point fingers on someone else in order to distract from the fact that it took them 2 fucking months to do something other than uttering "pls, don't panic, it's just a flu in china"
Like I said in >>40307, they took the wrong conclusions from near-misses with SARS and H1N1. Google for 'the boy who cried wolf'. From the point of view of politicians, the medical establishment who warned them was the boy who had cried wolf two times before. Same goes for huge shares of the German public. We have a metric fuckton of anti-vaccers who still see this as a scam of big-pharma to sell more vaccine.

>"we have everything under control" and "no need to use face masks". i purchased a pack of 25 face masks on amazon in february for 2€ per item, could sell 1 for + 40€ on ebay today.
Do you suggest everyone should have done that? Most people go out every day and would hence need 365 masks a year, at least. If everyone bought masks in February, there would have been too few of them all the same, and even fewer for those who need them most, i.e. those with compromised immune systems and medical staff. Buying masks in February would by no means have been a solution. Having more domestic production could have been part of the solution, but current demand would still outstrip prouction. Building a strategic reserve of supplies over years and serving all orders out of storage and running all production into storage would have been the correct thing to do. In Germany, this should have been started in about 2005. Instead, there was some friendly advice to municipalities to please stock up for emergencies. This advice was widely ignored.

>i don't have access to all the information politicians such as spahn have.
Most politicians aren't really decision-makers. They present a certain image and feeling to the public and try to stay popular. A minister like Spahn is only the temporary figure-head of a beurocracy. In Germany, the fail happened on every level of the hierarchy, with the lower levels of hierarchy starting to fail around the time when Jens Spahn won his first mandate in 2002.
>>
No. 40343
>>40342
>Like I said in >>40307, they took the wrong conclusions from near-misses with SARS and H1N1. Google for 'the boy who cried wolf'. From the point of view of politicians, the medical establishment who warned them was the boy who had cried wolf two times before. Same goes for huge shares of the German public. We have a metric fuckton of anti-vaccers who still see this as a scam of big-pharma to sell more vaccine.

This is precisely what I thought initially. I was only able to count all the disease-memes that passed me unnoticed.
But I believe that this was more the media's fault or where there a lot panicking scientist back then?
>>
No. 40345
>>40343
>But I believe that this was more the media's fault or where there a lot panicking scientist back then?
Prof. Kekulé demanded schools to be closed much earlier, and he also demanded travel restrictions much earlier.

Dr. Wimmer publicly warned at the end of January, watch the following Video from 16:43. (And see Prof. Brinkmanns facial muscles twitch because she wants to kill Wimmer for answering when she was addressed.)

https://www.zdf.de/politik/maybrit-illner/wettlauf-gegen-die-krankheit-wie-gefaehrlich-ist-das-coronavirus-sendung-vom-30-januar-2020-100.html

@18:40
>We are lucky at the moment, but this can change quickly
@19:48
>The comparison with the flu is technically deficient, it doesn't work at all

And Spahn replies
@21:00
>I don't understand why you make such a fuss.
Clearly true.
>>
No. 40351 Kontra
>>40342
>You use that word wrong.
no.
>most of the early cases were connected to the seafood market in question.
most, not all. there are cases which could not be traced to that wet market. in lombardy there are also early cases which were apparently not connected to the wuhan wet market outbreak.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing/italian-scientists-investigate-possible-earlier-emergence-of-coronavirus-idUSKBN21D2IG

>The spread of the disease is independent of testing.
oh really? if you don't test you neither know whether an unusual pneumonia death was actually a covid-10 death nor whether a patient showing flu symptoms does have regular flu or covid-19.
>You say there were somewhere between 10^0 and 10^1 cases in the US in November, right
no. you made that number up yourself and put it in my mouth. i have said multiple times itt that i have no idea how quick the virus spread and where it originated from. again: even with the number of tests we do in germany it is impossible to nail down an actual infection rate. it's all estimated.
>To wrap it all up: you make up a story where
>- a South-East-Asian bat-virus mutates and infects another host, likely a pangolin native to South-East-Asia
>- it then infects patient 0 in a rural area of the USA,
you are putting again things into my mouth i never claimed and you do that several times more in your text. this is basically lying and an attempt to make me look stupid. fuck off.
to wrap up what i really said (again): at this point it is not known where the virus originated, it could be from anywhere, including the usa, china and other countries. i've added in my last post that i believe that the chinese managed the crisis better than our politicians.
>Do you suggest everyone should have done that?
spahn, but more importantly, eu politicians, could have ordered corporations to produce more face masks and ventilators, close borders, mass temperature check on airports (particularly flights with travellers from china), close schools, cancel large events and so on much earlier. yes, we had a functioning test already in january, however this is nothing the likes of spahn can claim credit for, it's rather an achievement of the berlin charité/drosten.
but decision making and managing pandemics is exactly what the health minister and his staff is payed for. don't tell me the chinese are to blame for him and others still downplaying the pandemic in early march when italy was already suffering. to be fair to spahn though, the kind of ignorance on display in the government and among mainstream journalists wasn't exclusive to them, a lot of people are still even more ignorant with regard to the pandemic.
>>
No. 40358 Kontra
Why do we have a discussion that only revolves around which country is at fault because it had it first? What does it even matter if some americans are supposed to have brought it to China or if it came from the wet market and getting the virus from nature initially. Searching for a Nation's fault as country of origin is stupid.
Also every other country having it unoticed for months seems really unrealistic given that we would have skyerocketing numbers of fatalities before what we have now. I doubt that overflowing graveyards go unnoticed. Hence I'm likely to believe it was China. But I don't see how that makes it the origin of fault? Their policy maybe can be critiqued, but that is something different than hurr durr you are the country where it first appeared therefore it is you fault!!!! Go on in the chain of causation and talk to the virus ...
>>
No. 40362
>>40358
>Searching for a Nation's fault as country of origin is stupid.
i agree. i think the usa and china are probably in some sort of new cold war and americans smearing china on every opportunity they get is a part of it. perhaps the chinese media and internet is also full of smears against the burgers, however i don't speak/read chinese, so i only get annoyed by the burger smear campaigns, especially since they pollute literally everything. unfortunately unlearning english isn't an option to get rid of those, first because today english is basically the modern lingua franca even within europe and of international science as well, second because the burgers run their annoying campaigns apparently in german language too.

>given that we would have skyerocketing numbers of fatalities before what we have now
http://www.uni-goettingen.de/en/606540.html
estimates on the current actual infection rate vary widely, so do estimates on the cumulative actual death rate.
pretty much any reported or unreported flu or pneumonia related death case in late 2019 anywhere on the globe can possibly be an early covid-19 death unless tested negative of sars-ncov infection. how many patients die on pneumonia is also dependent on the capacity of the health system of a particular country, icu capacity in particular. italy's health system had a lower icu capacity and less ventilators.

lombardy outbreak:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340094609_The_early_phase_of_the_COVID-19_outbreak_in_Lombardy_Italy

flu cases in the usa in 2019:
https://www.contagionlive.com/news/cdc-reports-13-million-flu-cases-thus-far-in-201920-season

unusual high pneumonia deaths in the usa are likely not related to e-cigarettes:
https://www.asm.org/Press-Releases/2019/December-1/Exposure-to-E-Cigarette-Vapor-Fails-to-Induce-Pneu
>>
No. 40363
>>40351
>no.
Yes. A market is not an organism and therefore can not be a super-spreader.

>most, not all. there are cases which could not be traced to that wet market.
That can easily happen as soon as one single step is missed during contact tracing.

>in lombardy there are also early cases which were apparently not connected to the wuhan wet market outbreak.
Have you read the aticle you linked to? I'll quote:
>Hunter said that unless Italian scientists get positive results from samples taken and stored at that time, then the suggestion should not be given credence.
>He added that, given what we know about how infectious the virus is, and the ratio of patients showing no symptoms compared with those that get sick, “it is inconceivable that we would not have had a pretty major epidemic in Europe much earlier if these cases had in fact been COVID-19"
There isn't more to say about it.

>oh really? if you don't test you neither know whether an unusual pneumonia death was actually a covid-10 death nor whether a patient showing flu symptoms does have regular flu or covid-19.
I am repeating myself: If it had been present elsewhere much earlier, there would have been outbreaks much earlier. See above, quoting the article you linked "that we would not have had a pretty major epidemic [...] much earlier"

>no. you made that number up yourself and put it in my mouth.
The assumption benefited your argument because it puts the number of cases very low. You have two options here.
Option 1.) You say there were fewer cases in November. There is one non-negative number lesser than 10^0. This number is 0. So there were no cases and you retract your claim.
Option 2.) There were more cases in November. That leads to an even more significant epidemic much earlier.
So both cases harm your argument and it would have been smarter to keep your mouth shut.

>i have said multiple times itt that i have no idea how quick the virus spread and where it originated from. again: even with the number of tests we do in germany it is impossible to nail down an actual infection rate.
There are known chains of infections from which the serial interval has been derrived. From evaluating the first 425 cases of Wuhan, a basic reproduction number of 2.2 was derived. From cases exported from Wuhan, the estimate was 2.68.
>it's all estimated.
Estimated from data. You just arbitrarly decided that those estimates are wrong and real numbers could very likely be much lower. Then please explain why 2.2 is a severe OVER-estimation of the basic reproduction number and how an OVER-estimation can result from UNDER-testing, which invariably misses cases.

>to wrap up what i really said (again): at this point it is not known where the virus originated, it could be from anywhere, including the usa, china and other countries
Then explain to me how it could have originated in the USA or elsewhere and did not cause an epidimic with millions affected there.
Again, I see two possibilities here.
Option 1.) The epidemic was overlooked. Hospitalaziation and deaths were blamed on the flu. Then it follows that Covid-19 is no worse than the flu. Otherwise, an epidemic could not have been overlooked.
Option 2.) There were isolated cases, but there was no epidemic. Then you have to explain how, for weeks or months, Covid-19 was contained by sheer coincidence and then randomly spread into China, without significant spread closer to its origin. Something like what I posted earlier must have taken place. Bat-Virus from Asia randomly pops up in some other place and then randomly comes back to South-East Asia, but somehow, there is no significant spread elsewhere. Then, it spreads around the world from South-East-Asia. It's a very improbable assumption, yet you seemingly consider it a likely scenario, but refuse to explain how it could have happened.

>spahn, but more importantly, eu politicians, could have ordered corporations to produce more face masks and ventilators
You can not just "order corporations to produce more". First, this is a free market economy. If you want a company to produce more, buy from them. Second, production capacity is limited. Production capacity can not be multiplied in a matter of weeks, in particularly not for medical supplies and medical equipment where quality standards are high and regulations are strict. No, you can not just lower standards. A faulty respirator can easily be more dangereous than no respirator.

>close borders
>mass temperature check on airports (particularly flights with travellers from china), close schools, cancel large events and so on much earlier.
That could have been done. The problem with all of those measures is that they are costly. If politicians implement such restrictions and they proof to be unnecessary, those politicians are done for. Even if desaster is avoided, some people will take the absence of a catastrophy as proof that restrictions were unnecessary. So someone with thought patterns similar to yours would argue "We can not know if closing schools had any effect. It might just as well have been the warm weather." "It might have had nothing to do with closing borders, it was all because Drosten developed that test early on." Etc.
For politicians, there is little gain in drastic action until after fecal matter has hit the fan. It's the same in China, by the way, where local authorities tried to sweep it all under the rug for as long as possible.

>yes, we had a functioning test already in january, however this is nothing the likes of spahn can claim credit for, it's rather an achievement of the berlin charité/drosten.
Did I credit Spahn anywhere?

>but decision making and managing pandemics is exactly what the health minister and his staff is payed for.
Bold decisions do not get politicians into office, and they are not what keeps them there. More importantly, bold decisions aren't what helped South Korea or Taiwan contain the disease, either. They learned from the SARS-scare in 2003 and prepared for years, not for months. Germany chose to ignore the lesson. Had functioning mechanisms been put into place in the early 2000s, we would be where other countries are now, Spahn or not. We'd have new infections dripple in at a convenient rate of 50 a day, and there would be hardly any need for thousands of respirators.
There would have been no question of measuring temperatures at airports, it would have been clear that, in case of a public health emergency, travelers from affected countries are checked for temperature. Personell would have been instructed way ahead on how to take temperatures, the equipment would have been available, etc.
We'd have software supported contact tracing using mobile phones and mobile data ready and it would be unnecessary to knock it together now. It would have been obvious to any local health authority, that this and that amount of PSE and disinfectent etc. has to be kept in storage at all time, so that operations can continue in case of an epidemic.
And so on, and so forth. Point being: Spahn hasn't been in office long enough to take all the blame.
>>
No. 40364
>>40358
>Why do we have a discussion that only revolves around which country is at fault because it had it first? What does it even matter if some americans are supposed to have brought it to China or if it came from the wet market and getting the virus from nature initially.

The Chinese Communist Party tries to give it a spin. "Look here, this didn't even originate in China. Long-Nosed foreigners from the unorganised and chaotic West brought it in, we contained it, and we succeeded where they failed." The first part of this is bloodly improbable, and I have argued why. So did you.
The second part is bull, they only fucked up less. Had they been succesful, this would have been contained and extinguished in Wuhan, and everyone, including China, would be better of now. You still have to give them credit for fucking up less, but the way they spin it now and pretend to be the world's saviour is vomit-inducing.
>>
No. 40366
>>40364
>So did you.

I did not even engage in this nation of origin discussion at all, so far. But your are not the only one who gets confused with all the german balls ITT.

Anyway. China might wants to spin it but do you think anybody here will believe it? What do "the Chinese" have to do with it anyway, it's policy done and interefered by various organizational stcrutures that play into that policy being realized. It's a goddamn virus that originated somewhere and policy makers around the globe usually have the responsibilty to deal with it. I'm less concerned with the place of origin and more with the policies of containment or lack thereof.And what is will be done now that it spreads. Accusing Spahn because you feel personally attacked by his existence or having yellowphobia doesn't help shit. Desperatley looking for scapegoats what is in itself a matter of complexity, that cannot be reduced to a single person or whatever (people still believe in statesmen and women as the only people who have an effect on that system, jeez) we are dealing with (world) systemic processes.

What else. I find it funny how people wear masks in order to protect themselves whereas in Asia you don't wear them just to be protected but not to be the asswhole spreading it as well. Hands down, westerners don't know how to deal with a pandemic at all, since they never had to deal with it, not personally I mean.

Instead of blaming all the time I would be more interested in what this is teaching the west and how it will perhaps change certain things. Hence why I linked >>40157 which ewent under in this rather bleak discussion revolving around who is to blame. Like Trump. You blame somebody to distract from your own failure. Damage has been done, there is more interesting things to this global pandemic than blaming.
>>
No. 40373
>>40366
>I did not even engage in this nation of origin discussion at all, so far. But your are not the only one who gets confused with all the german balls ITT.

I referred to your post,
>Also every other country having it unoticed for months seems really unrealistic given that we would have skyerocketing numbers of fatalities before what we have now. I doubt that overflowing graveyards go unnoticed. Hence I'm likely to believe it was China
That was you in >>40358, wasn't it?

>China might wants to spin it but do you think anybody here will believe it?
It depends on what you mean by
>here
If you think of EC/int, then there might be a chance. If you think of Germany, then I am certain that many people will not only believe it, but spread it on social media. If you think of Europe including Italy, Spain and France, then I am certain that some will not only believe China, but also blame the USA and Germany.

>It's a goddamn virus that originated somewhere and policy makers around the globe usually have the responsibilty to deal with it.
Viruses don't originate randomly or naturally.

Such things are likely to happen in favorable conditions. Conditions we create. For example, a virus crossing the species-barrier becomes more likely when you have many different species kept closely together, and the more unhygienic the conditions, the better.

Another opportunity is when humans arrive in force in previously untouched habitats where a certain pathogene is present, like with Ebola. When Ebola occurred in remote locations in the past, it infected the entire village and was through with it before further spread could occur. Due to increased logging and agriculture in West Africa, it was given opportunity to reach the cities and spread there, and we haven't seen the last of Ebola yet.

Many individuals of one single species closely kept together is also a good pre-condition for new pathogenes, lots of hosts to burn through in a short time. Hence, pathogenes that quickly burn through host population and thus can't survive in natural conditions get a chance. Take pig sties with >1000 pigs, compare this to how wild boars live. Or think of 100,000 hens in one barn. There's a book dedicated to this topic, it's called "Big Farms make Big Flu". In any case, one of the failures of Chinese policy makers is that they did not put tighter controls on markets. They made an attempt after SARS, but then gave up. But something similar could have happened on a poultry farm or a pig farm in Germany, we were just lucky it didn't.
The pig-flu and the bird-flu are named pig-flu and bird-flu for reasons. Measles evolved from Rinderpest. We should be grateful that we are not dealing with H7N9, which is about as deadly as the black death.

>I'm less concerned with the place of origin and more with the policies of containment or lack thereof
I'm concerned with the result of the policies of containment. At a certain point, the cure gets worse than the disease. The current strategy of containment leads the whole world into a massive economic downturn, people will become homeless, there'll be cuts in education and healthcare, and, all in all, the world will become a more unpleasant place to be in for quite some time.

>Desperatley looking for scapegoats what is in itself a matter of complexity, that cannot be reduced to a single person or whatever (people still believe in statesmen and women as the only people who have an effect on that system, jeez) we are dealing with (world) systemic processes.
I agree that the current lack of an effective, sustainable strategy in Germany or Europe is not to blame on Jens Spahn, it has its roots in times long before Jens Spahn ever took office. I still hate his guts.
>>
No. 40376
>>40373
>Viruses don't originate randomly or naturally.
>randomly or naturally

I never said that. Just that it originated at some place. I've read an interview with somebody who sums up what you just did with the
>when humans arrive in force in previously untouched habitats where a certain pathogene is present

It was argued that the pathogene was brought into civilisztion because people are forced capitalist logics in that case to hunt wild animals in enviroments previously untouched and that keep such pathogenes usually enclosed.

It is therefore kind of a shortcut to just blame the Chinese and that is it, since, as you mentioned, the emergence of such pathogenes is also fostered through structures and China is not the only place having such structuration.
everything for the blood god

>I'm concerned with the result of the policies of containment.

That was included in >>40366
>how it will perhaps change certain things

Meaning how the world will look like after Corona and what will happen in the process of its spreading. I'm as well tense what will happen within the next months, we will surely have disruptions that are not due to corona fatalities or infections but socio-economic, geopolitical and also culturally.
>>
No. 40395
>>40376
>It was argued that the pathogene was brought into civilisztion because people are forced capitalist logics in that case to hunt wild animals in enviroments previously untouched and that keep such pathogenes usually enclosed.

An argument that can be made in the case of Ebola, but in the case of SARS-CoV-2, it just doesn't fly.

>It is therefore kind of a shortcut to just blame the Chinese and that is it, since, as you mentioned, the emergence of such pathogenes is also fostered through structures and China is not the only place having such structuration
You know what's a shortcut? AND YOU ARE LYNCHING NEGROS. That's a shortcut. You just took it.

>Everything for the blood god
Consider seeking the help of a professional.
>>
No. 40396
>>40395
>but in the case of SARS-CoV-2, it just doesn't fly.

Why?

>That's a shortcut. You just took it.

I don't know what your exactly want to tell me with your shortcut that is understood as simple action of whatever. You can make shortcuts in your mind of what seems to be more complex paths of emergence of X in reality.

>Consider seeking the help of a professional.

And they say this board is dang serious, it truly is.
>>
No. 40399 Kontra
120 kB, 640 × 427
>>40396
You should'nt implicate that everyone ITT is Ernst.
>>
No. 40400
>>40396
>Why
Because Hubei is densely populated and has been for hundreds of years.
>I don't know what your exactly want to tell me You use cheap whataboutism.
>>
No. 40404
>>40400
>Because Hubei is densely populated and has been for hundreds of years.

And the wild animals sold on the wet market come from the streets or where have they been caught? Do you know where they have been hunt down that you can say it's a densely populated area or an area which has been formed by man for many years/decades etc.?

>I don't know what your exactly want to tell me You use cheap whataboutism.

I guess you wanted to accuse me of Whataboutsim

Well.
1) I did not understand what you even wanted to say, you either clarify it or not.
2) I gave an explanation of what I meant with shortcut in case you are saying something that is not actually related to what I said and thus I don't understand what you said, since you make jumps nobody can trace.
3) In what way as that a whataboutism then?
>>
No. 40428 Kontra
I dailed up my fb account because I need to get in touch with a friend. Accidently stumbled across a guy from NY who is in my friendlist. He has Corona and I read the comments from other people who having it or had it. These people are under 40, many in their 30s or late 20s and apparently they did not cope with it that easily sometimes. Other people feel nearly nothing. In any case, it makes me a bit more uncomfortable do endure it myself.
>>
No. 40445
1,5 MB, 800 × 591, 0:01
Today the first time this confinement shit pays a toll, I haven't worked at all

LOW ENERGI
>>
No. 40446
38 kB, 786 × 1137
299 kB, 1504 × 1560
Spanish govt:

"Tuesday back to work!"
"If anyone gets sick the employer will pay!"
"We have the sensation that everything will be OK"(the "sensation" word is literal)
>>
No. 40447
>>40446
So in essence they expect people to cope with the disease so that their employer doesn't fire them?
That's USA-tier
>>
No. 40451
On one hand, I am somehow still employed. Not interacting with the public so not in any real danger yet (besides public transportation).
On the other hand, I don't really want to do anything.
>>
No. 40453
15 kB, 659 × 95
We've reached "president tweeting Death in June lyrics" stage of pandemic
>>
No. 40455
>>40453
This guy and this thing has seriously made it clear to me that I live in a very wealthy ex-Soviet central Asian regime. But well
>>40446
At least you and Brazil can suffer with us I guess?

I do believe that after exhausting every single other option our government has been starting to do the right things however. I hate Cuomo but he's one of the rarest non-fucktard leaders or officials I've seen anywhere in the world in this whole thing. Him, Fauci...that's about it.

>>40451
I've been working but as of this week my hours have been cut drastically and thank fucking God for that. We are also now allowed to wear masks at work. I still can't even believe that shit. All the companies here were telling workers not to wear masks because it gave customers the "wrong image." A lot of that probably also had to do with the fucktard in chief. It's like things are only a reality when he says they are to half the country. Now that he and the dumbasses or liars at CDC have said masks are okay, the company is going with it. This includes people who work in hospitals I might add.
>>
No. 40458 Kontra
58 kB, 594 × 572
358 kB, 752 × 966
>>40447
The idea is that Spain is bankrupt

>>40455
You don't have the national humiliation of pic 2. How many people more will have to die in order to understand that Spain is pure cancer? The Catalan doctors college says going back to work in Tuesday is reckless, WHO says the same. A bastard minister is tweeting if he should watch Life of Brian or Jesuchrist Superstar RIGHT NOW.

>I do believe that after exhausting every single other option our government has been starting to do the right things however.

glad to hear it

>Cuomo

I read there had been a cut in health services there. Here it has been the same for years.
>>
No. 40459
63 kB, 677 × 480
>>40453
The snows of the enemy, eh?
>>
No. 40460
>>40458
All these boomer politicians are the weak men ensuring hard times. It doesnt help that many of them were born with a silver spoon up their ass unlike in previous times where we had real statesmen and generals leading the country.
>>
No. 40461 Kontra
>>40458
I think we're all going to end up bankrupt soon. Which is preferable to dying but still. Pretty sure the fear of contagion is the only thing holding back a general riot, which still doesn't stop some people.
>>40453
Oh lawd.
>>
No. 40463
28 kB, 464 × 299
201 kB, 1706 × 1588
>>40460
Well not exactly, President of Spain is 49 YO. An apparatchik from the socialist party

The guy in >>40458 photo is 57, is the President of Catalonia. He's a nice fellow. I'm Catalan patriot like him but I haven't used this crisis to attack the Spanish govt like all the socialists have done attacking us to make fucking damage control. This is a new low, a new low stained in blood.
>>
No. 40465
>>40463
The most common denominator seems to be a bunch of crooked insecure fucks more concerned about their votes, optics, and money/stocks than about the lives of their countrymen. In hypercapitalist USA and whatever you'd call Bolsonaro's religious plantation Capitalism the situation is just as fucked. I think the real difference is in the far East they actually give a damn about the people themselves and are intelligent enough to properly implement social policies in an orderly fashion. Singapor, Worst Korea, and Japan haven't been having such issues, minus the Japanese hiccup with acting like the Olympics are still on for a bit until admitting defeat and fully accepting reality. Although I've gotta say, trying to appease the coalition by staging that feminist march was pants on head fucking retarded of them.

Hey how's Canada doing?
>>
No. 40469
97 kB, 926 × 620
>>40465
>>40465
>insecure fucks more concerned about their votes, optics,

Well yes. PSOE actions reek of political spin doctors, with their army of bureaucrats/party parasites ready to defend their boss because actually, outside the political sphere, they'd make low income households. The scum. 15 million euros given to private TVs in order they bring their message. And everyone that has lost their job or means of income have to keep paying taxes.

And no masks no alcohol

https://twitter.com/jordiborras/status/1248532436557815808?s=20

In tweet a decent alternative journalist criticizes a PSOE newspaper. The coffins fill the parking lot because no space.

Lord have mercy because I burn.
>>
No. 40474
Meanwhile Sweden keeps trolling Trump.
Why the fuck is he so obsessed with us?
>>
No. 40475
>>40474
Cause he wants to be a blue-eyed, blond Swede so badly.
>>
No. 40476
>>40475
A desire which is actually nothing new or unusual considering that there were many Germans 80 years ago who also oriented their beauty ideals to what they thought Swedes would look like.
>>
No. 40478
>>40455
>I've been working but as of this week my hours have been cut drastically and thank fucking God for that.
You might soon get them cut more, the economy is tanking worse than it ever has, 1929 was easy compared to this.

>We are also now allowed to wear masks at work. I still can't even believe that shit. All the companies here were telling workers not to wear masks because it gave customers the "wrong image."
It looks like you either think your customers are infected or, even worse, like you are going to pass the 'rona on to them.

In times like this, it's important to keep good morale.

>>40404
>where do they come from
What's exotic to you might not be exotic in exotic places. For example, in Southern China, bats from Southern China are not exotic at all. they live there, same as European bats live in Europe. Besides, I don't really think they traded bats there. The bats probably just flew into the market hall and didn't find their way out.

>What's the whataboutism
You try to distract from the fact that some of those markets are unhygienic health hazards (as shown by the emergence of SARS-CoV and SARS-Cov-2) that should have been shut down decades ago, by going "but whatabout factory farms, but whatabout capitalism, we need to end capitalism!"
>>
No. 40483
>>40478
>What's exotic to you might not be exotic in exotic places.

So the animals traded there are from densely populated areas which have been formed by civiisation for decades or centuries? How can you be 100% sure about that, what is your justification for that, how do you know that? It's not about exoticness of animals but if they are from areas which have been rather untouched by civilization so far. Who says those animals come exclusively from Hubei? We are missing information in order to make an actual statement about the origin of the animals traded. Wikipedia says 120 species have been traded there. Well the number of actual animals from these species would be interesting for further judgement. But anyway, you don't know where the animals come from exactly I guess, hence you cannot say it's not a possibility that animals from previously untouched enviroments which keep pathogenes enclosed have been brought to the market.

>You try to distract from the fact that some of those markets are unhygienic health hazards (as shown by the emergence of SARS-CoV and SARS-Cov-2) that should have been shut down decades ago, by going "but whatabout factory farms, but whatabout capitalism, we need to end capitalism!"

You gave those examples yourself more or less >>40373

1) what you are dwlling on now
>Such things are likely to happen in favorable conditions. Conditions we create. For example, a virus crossing the species-barrier becomes more likely when you have many different species kept closely together, and the more unhygienic the conditions, the better.

But ypou also mentioned this

>Another opportunity is when humans arrive in force in previously untouched habitats where a certain pathogene is present, like with Ebola.

Notice how you said
>like Ebola

which indicates that you compare these condition to others that are possible.

3) you mentioned the big farm problem as well

>There's a book dedicated to this topic, it's called "Big Farms make Big Flu".

These problems can emerge from the modes of production we have today, Capitalism.
But lets not concentrate further on economic structration and their possible effects.

>In any case, one of the failures of Chinese policy makers is that they did not put tighter controls on markets.
>one of the failures of Chinese policy makers

Ok. The problem of decapsulating pathogenes would be gone, if we have hygenic wet markets then? Or is it one problem of many others? According to your last post that is the only problem to be tackled by the Chinese. Or is it just the most important?

I pointed out that market logics drive people to hunt in previously untouched areas, China or Africa or whereever, if that is true, clean markets might not be the only problem. Hence what about other problems in a causational chain of pathogenes being enabled to spread. It was not completely unrelated to the problem and did not really distract from your points made so far. You lost track of your own stuff brought forward and concentrated on the issue of hygene alone. If hygenic conditions will stop decapasulated pathogenes from spreading there, ok. But I don't know if that is true since I not a virologist or veterinarian, what are your sources?
>>
No. 40493
>>40476
But Dutch and Finnish women look much better. Well so do French and butthurt belt women but that's just my opinion wait wtf am I talking about it is objective fact Estonians, Ukrainians, and French are basically the standard of European beautysome Spanish women too. Sorry Swedes just look like they should be in special ed to me idk why. They just don't look all that feminine either imho.
>>
No. 40510
>>40483
>The animals traded there
Like I said, I don't think it likely they trade bats there.
>are from densely populated areas
Bats live in densely populated areas. It's not like cities are insect-free zones. There are a lot of bat-friendly places, like highway-bridges, etc. Wildlife exists in densely settled areas.

>How can you be 100% sure about that
I can't. By demanding 100% certainty from me, you give yourself the freedom of making all kinds of outlandish assumptions and treating them as fact, for example that the cause of SARS-CoV-2 was a trade in exotic wild animals, when local bats in Wuhan have a virus with a 96% identical genome. Wet markets are very much like farmers markets, just a lot less hygienic. Obviously, I can not ascertain that no wet market in China sells tiger penis fresh from the tiger or life baby dolphins. But if you think that it's the default case, you watched too many movies.

>like
>which indicates that you compare these condition to others that are possible
What I wrote, verbatim, was 'Another opportunity is when humans arrive in force in previously untouched habitats where a certain pathogene is present, like with Ebola.'
First, take your attention to the word 'Another', which is a determiner used to signify a semantic and/or contextual difference. At the beginning of this paragraph, it signifies the difference to the preceding paragraph. Second, take a look at what the second part of the sentence ('like with Ebola') refers to. It refers to the first part of the sentence, not to the preceding paragraph. I think this is clearly visible, since I separated the two parts of that sentence with a comma, but the two paragraphs with line-breaks. Third, consider the meaning of the word 'like' when used as a proposition or a conjunction, which is 'similar to, as in'. 'Like' can be used to form comparisons, but it is by far not its only usage. Rather, the second part of the sentence gives an example for the first part of the sentence. The word like is commonly used to give examples. See, for example https://www.perfect-english-grammar.com/as-and-like.html. I do not want to claim that my English grammar is perfect, but I am fairly certain that using 'like' to give examples is admissible.

I described different cases. You decided they were all one case because, to you, the root cause of all of them is buying and selling goods at mutually agreed upon prices, or in your parlance,
>market forces.

I wonder how you'd explain the spectacular environmental damage caused by political/economical systems that tried to eliminate market forces.
>>
No. 40513
>>40476
So.. invading Poland is next or since they have started to move troops there so will Stalingrad or Moscow be next?

So the obsession has nothing to do with the virus. Good to know.
>>
No. 40518 Kontra
>>40510
I get you on the bat thing. Yet it is also said that pangolin might be an intermediary. It was called a possible intermediary at least. Bats might be the origin but what got brought to the market was the pangolin. Afaik pangolin are not part of the wildlife of urbanized areas.

Both might work. Bats directly or pangolins as intermediary. But as far as I understood you, bats in Wuhan have been found to carry the virus? Not just on the market but generally bats in Wuhan? Is it possible to know for how long a host has carried a virus?

>It refers to the first part of the sentence, not to the preceding paragraph.

I know, and that is what I also wanted to say. I guess my wording was wrong then. It stills boils down to this: Ebola is an example. One example of how a pathogene escapes an enviroment that encloses it by humans going there for example to cut down trees in order to have land for farming or in order to hunt pangolin because it's thought after and there is a market for that. If it's Ebola or Covid19 or something else, the pathogene escapes a certain enviroment that happens before it even arrives at the (unhygenic) wet market. Now if might not have been the case for corona this time. The potential stays.

>I described different cases. You decided they were all one case

They are different cases but behind at least two (farms and hunting) there is a demand that is fulfilled by more or less giving a fuck on what might happen or is likely to happen, it's a risk that is accepted, because it's profitable to continue like that and nothing super bad happened so far, people want cheap chicken or a pangolin for "medical" purposes and market participants are triyng to be profitable and some or many don't like to be regulated because it harms their business, it causes costs etc.
The hygene issue might also be a question of cost. I don't know. Could very well be that people just don't care.

>I wonder how you'd explain the spectacular environmental damage caused by political/economical systems that tried to eliminate market forces.

Whataboutism, no?

I never said that soviet socialism e.g. did not harm the enviroment. Demands (which is often plain desires these days and not substantial needs, but I guess it is put together in certain economic theories) are faced in whatever mode of production, and that means, after all, taking from nature. How that is done is another very big debate you can engage in. And this includes how certain logics (operating principles/mode of operation) prevent how it could be done otherwise of what causes problems atm or in history and will continue to do so in the future most likely. As you noticed I think many areas in life are effected by economization. On the other hand does this not imply that I think that you will get utopian paradise by just overcoming capitalism.
>>
No. 40521
458 kB, 1500 × 1000
416 kB, 1500 × 1000
>Cases climbing slow but steady
>Suddenly an old folks home gets infected and we're at +100 infections a day
>They send in the military to disinfect the place
>The 93.MH "Petőfi Sándor" Chemical Defence Battalion has started the disinfection procedure at the Pesti Avenue Old Folks Home on Sunday, April 12.
Didn't even knew we had such a thing as a "Chemical Defence Battalion".

I think things are about to escalate. Especially how because of Easter everyone went shopping and how judging by the amount of people walking in front of my window daily, most people don't take the curfew seriously.
>>
No. 40644 Kontra
>>40493
>Sorry Swedes just look like they should be in special ed to me idk why

it's a matter of taste, isn't it. since the internet i know that burgers/anglos are literally obsessed with the blonde + blue eyes combo/nordic phenotype as well as vikings and thor for some reason though, which i find slightly annoying on youtube, imageboards and anglo tv/media. i can't figure out the reason, maybe an american poster can explain it. the nazis had imported their "aryan" fetish and as well as eugenics from the usa too, from people such as rockefeller and ford, by the way. before there was only german nationalism/patriotism here without arbitrarily assigning "master race" status to a certain phenotype. i remember when i was in school 30 years ago, east germanymy class consisted of about 35% blondes, 45% brunettes of different shades, 5% ginger, 15% various dark brown/black hair, the latter including the odd african/asian immigrant. blondes did not stand out in terms of cognitive or physical performance nor in arts over others iirc, infact the autists with the highest iq among us, who both hold several phds, prof. and honours today, was a skinny guy with bright pink skin and very ginger hair and a brunette girl. moreover, in sweden and iceland there are also less blondes and more people with brown and red hair than an average burger might believe who has never visited scandinavia irl.

within yurop i'd personally rank girls in terms of good looks:
italy 1, france 2, russia 3, germany 4, sweden 5
>>
No. 40972
85 kB, 1024 × 685
320 kB, 570 × 613
Is this happening in anybody else's countries?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6C1cK5B1j4
>>
No. 40975
95 kB, 631 × 382
>>40972
I have nothing against protesting in your car but outside of it is dangerous. I don't know what the fuck is Trump doing, he's playing with fire.

No I don't know about anything similar in Catalonia.
>>
No. 40976
16 kB, 632 × 189
>>40975
It's pretty simple to me.
Like all politicians in a representative democracy, he wants to get re-elected.
Trump's main source of appeal comes from the successful "Trump Economy" (whether real or imagined).
Ergo, it is in his own best interest to aggravate and attempt to lift the restrictions in order to bring the economy back.
If the economy continues in its downturn, he will not get re-elected. Absolutely, he could have done more earlier on, although I doubt his opponents would have done more if they were in the same position as him. It doesn't matter that SARS-Cov-2 (the virus itself is happening regardless of who is in charge) wasn't directly his fault, people will see the economy go into recession, they will see that Trump is "in charge", and so they will want someone else leading the country.
And so the idiot figurehead at the top will be swapped for another.

Image source: https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3652
>>
No. 40980
I think I'm going to build some more dystopian people trackers to keep the company afloat. When they write my biography people are going to shit on this period a lot but it's going to make a good story.
>>
No. 40981
>>40980
Also face recognition WITH MASKS is going to be huge soon.
>>
No. 40986
16 kB, 296 × 441
>>40975
Some of those people think the virus is gone, or that it doesn't actually exist, ergo they see no danger. Considering how some of those people skew towards being older, how packed some of them are, and how unrelated groups of people have gotten infected just from attending "corona parties", I expect natural selection will take hold in a couple of weeks.
The sheer size and distances within the US can create a feeling of isolation from larger events. Despite the huge number of infected, not every part of the US is struggling like NYC. In some communities I imagine the virus can seem distant.
>>
No. 40988
>>40972
There are some people who feel disgruntled because of the social distancing measures. Their main gripe is that the Chief Medical Officer has been saying that "We're about to enter the period of mass infections" for a month now, and we haven't really seen an explosion in case numbers or deaths (thankfully).

The problem is that it creates a false sense of security for a lot of people and they start going out more and more because they think it's just a flu that isn't even that infectious.

But no, there hasn't been any ameribear tier protests against the social distancing measures.
>>
No. 41017
>>
No. 41027
>>
No. 41029
>>41027
It's not full cancer until they start injecting themselves with Lysol.
>>
No. 41031
193 kB, 1280 × 720
>>40986
I think that what amazes me most about this is further dreary revelations about how stupid people are specifically in that they are incapable of watching and learning from others. Crows can do this. Yet apparently the vast majority of people cannot, and even after seeing it fuck up china "durr hurr hurr it's only China" then it spreads to Italy
>it's only Italy not my country
>so what it's just NYC
>so what it's just a few major coastal cities
>so what it's just every single city
Like seriously what the fuck? I have seen exactly that same pattern happen across literally every single community. Do they all just think they're going to be immune from it or something? It really reminds me greatly of things like the Black Death. I cannot imagine how many dumbasses got wiped out by that plague saying how they havent got to worry because it's in another country or on the other side of the hill or whatever.

Meanwhile anyone not retarded should've been horrified seeing this thing rolling towards you like standing in front of a freight train coming around the corner, while also having to suffer the indignity of spending their last moments trapped on the track with some fool insisting that it's pointed to the side right now and even when it's barreling down insisting that it looks like it's moving way too slow to be a threat. You would think these people would at least be able to see what's happened in every city and state in their own country let alone every other country to recognize a pattern at some point.

Suddenly I am finding myself much less sympathetic to road kill for some reason.
>>
No. 41037
>>40518
>nd this includes how certain logics (operating principles/mode of operation)
I already know that people like you decided to abuse the term 'logic'. In a similar vain, you like to use an absurd plural-form of the term 'reality'. When comited by a gang of chronic Whorfianists, such linguistic escapades can be classified as an attempt at mind-control. As if it wasn't enough to ban people from buying and selling, you also want to force us to like our new-found state of poverty, resulting from a ban on trade.

>prevent how it could be done otherwise of what causes problems atm or in history and will continue to do so in the future most likely.
Hunter-gatherers hunted mamoths to extinction. I guess the cold mechanics of the "market logics" forced them to. They shouldn't have traded needles made of mamoth-tusk for stone axes, damned capitalists. They should have frozen to death or starved instead.
>>
No. 41039
>>41037
Having markets or trade=/=Capitalism
>>
No. 41043 Kontra
>>41037
>abuse the term 'logic'

Besides syllogist or symbolic logic, the term has the semantic content (or role if you like) as I used it, it's not uncommon, language is not static.

>stone age mambo jumbo

Different modes of production, different social relations. Historicity of things, you know. Maybe you are one of those people who reject history and trade it in for natural constants in social matters, but I tell you what, the social is not reduced to biochemics and molecules working in a certain way.
The role of exchange for instance is different from what we have these days. If hunter gatherers were big traders at all, maybe more focused on subsistence, I don't know. Do we have merchants back then? etc.

Did I deny that we have to take from nature? There were no market logics that forced hunter gatherers to take from nature
>>40518
> whatever mode of production, and that means, after all, taking from nature

Capitalism is an intensive mode that puts profit over environmental issues, soviet socialism didn't give a fuck as well. But nobdy wants to copy soviet socialism. Just because one has a problem with capitalism, it does not mean one wants soviet socialism. And you are the expert in logics?

I'm certainly no expert in economics, I guess you neither. I just don't buy into in the inevitability and naturality of capitalism bourgeois robinsonade as explained by marx, which has nothing to do with market theory at that point btw, it's a historic phenomena. Capitalism is not just economics or economic theory. It's a mode of production that has an impact on social relations and perhaps one might add: how we take from nature.
>>
No. 41051
116 kB, 676 × 950
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52394485

The UK started human vaccine trials with a control group of 800. The research team at Oxford expects to be able to develop a vaccine ready for mass production by September.

>The vaccine was developed in under three months by a team at Oxford University. Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at the Jenner Institute, led the pre-clinical research.
>"Personally I have a high degree of confidence in this vaccine," she said.
>>
No. 41073
>>41029
But that would make the cancer go away.
>>
No. 41195
I only just found out about this today
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/mar/27/i-shook-hands-with-everybody-says-boris-johnson-weeks-before-coronavirus-diagnosis-video
First of all why is this news to me and it wasn't so talked about and secondly why isn't that fucking retard being roundly mocked for it?
>>
No. 41204
400 kB, 803 × 688
>Read the BBC
>"Remdesivir: Drug has 'clear cut' power to fight coronavirus"
>Read the Telegraph
>"Remdesivir may not work as coronavirus treatment, first trial results show"
What in the everloving fuck would we do without journalists?
>>
No. 41206
>>41204
Both articles probably says the same. They tested it and found that people were sick some fewer days but they can't tell if it is because of the drug or because other reasons.
>>
No. 41209
>>41195
Eveeybody made fun of him in Germany
>>
No. 41224
42 kB, 867 × 383
>>41195
>First of all why is this news to me and it wasn't so talked about and secondly why isn't that fucking retard being roundly mocked for it?

Pic related might be the reason you haven't heard about it.
Boris Johnson's government is bribing the press for favorable media coverage.
>>
No. 41228
Ernst out to know that a treatment for this and every other viral disease (apart from certain retroviruses) already exists but has been stuck in funding limbo for almost five years now

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TQhb1P3sMVs
>>
No. 41231
>>41195
>First of all why is this news to me
Guess you didn't follow the drama?
>and it wasn't so talked about
it was
>why isn't that fucking retard being roundly mocked for it?
he was
>>
No. 41233
>>41228
So? There are thousands of other projects in various fields stuck in limbo or terminated because no funding. Just because it has the potential to make the world better doesn't mean anyone with money is interested in putting the money there.
>>
No. 41238
214 kB, 1200 × 1600
>>41233
True indeed, and that is a problem. That is THE problem. The public needs to put pressure on the powers so that world changing technologies cannot be kept in the dark without public outcry and buttrage.
>>
No. 41247
I'm now wondering about how this is going to affect urban life in the long run. The car-centric American suburbia was on the way out with dense city centres becoming desirable focal points of capital and talent. Now?
>>
No. 41250
>>41247
I don't think it will give a new rise to suburbia, we will see enhanced security management in urban areas more likely. A pandemia was a theoretical scenario more or less for the west in the last decades, now that we actually have a real one going on, we will see a change in govermentality concerning pandemia. What it will look like? I don't know. Enable faster reactions ofc. Expansion of certain technologies and all that.
>>
No. 41253
>>41247
Home office will become a lot more prevalent I think. (And with that, we will realise that most office work doesn't really require 8 hours of work a day. But what will that mean? Probably the fact that they'll reduce wages to save money.)
Same for mask wearing and washing hands.
The sharing-economy like uber will be considerably hurt in the process.

Though if we develop a vaccine or cure, there's also a chance that people will go back to being ignorant and not giving a shit as they get lost in their old routine of consuming.
>>
No. 41257
63 kB, 736 × 481
>>41253
Honestly what I kind of feel like right now is the borderline autistic NEET shutin shall inherit the earth if he just embraces it within his heart and soul. I have barely even interacted with anybody. It's great. My only regret here is I really should be calling people I've known but I just cut so many people off for years it feels like it may be weird, if I even have their phone numbers anymore. I don't even use shitholes like twitter and I havent seen shitbook in years and years so if that's how normalfags want to go about themselves so be it but I'm not participating.

Meanwhile I can pretty much just sit here and eat pastry and play vidya and be happy and just hope I don't get corona'd. My main problem is this country is full of dumbasses so I have every expectation of it fucking us up in the long term and of every from lowest bydlo to the president of the land continually doing stupid shit. So long as I get to stay here however I'm pretty happy. It's just like being laid off for seasonal work like kitchen bullshit only I have to also decontaminate myself when coming home from rare errands while wearing PPE so whatever.

Picture unrelated.
>>
No. 41335
>>41247
People actually washing their hands properly
>>
No. 41404 Kontra
>>41253
> sharing-economy like uber
> sharing
As a side note. Fuck I hate people believing this. It is as far away as you can get from sharing. Seriously, ask yourself how the fuck they make money. If it dies a horrible death the world will be a better place.
>>
No. 41421
>>40181
Holy shit. This was only on April 4th. It's just been less than a month since then and already the American death toll is higher than the total global death toll was just 28 days ago.
>>
No. 41490
63 kB, 1507 × 727
Hungarian government is playing a 2000IQ trick on the official coronavirus-website by showing only the active infections and then dividing that number into "Budapest & Pest County" and "Countryside" brackets.
Same goes for the deceased and the recoverees.

I'm reading about the first antibody-tests they did in New York. It showed that roughly 12% of the population had anti-bodies against the virus. (With the value going as high as 20% in New York City proper.)
But New York is a heavy-hit region.
The rate was 4-6% in Slovenia.
Which means that it's not nearly as severe as we though this was, apparently. Which is good news.

They started the antibody-test here too, and the first batch of 17k should have a result by the end of may. Then they plan to carry out a test of similar size each month to evaluate the actual number of people who got infected and went under the radar because of the mild symptoms.
>>
No. 41499
>>41404
>ask yourself how the fuck they make money.

Do they even make any money? Guessing we are speaking of profits. Afaik they are in business because of venture capital that bets on Uber being a monopoly in fares of small distance. So they don't make anything they just get pumped so far.

On a sidenote: What the heck was sharing economy anyway, I thought it's an older buzzword already.
>>
No. 41501
>>41499
They make money, just not profit iirc.
But yes. Buzzword. Originaly it was a couple of people lending or renting out things they owned but didn't use at the moment. Airbnb is "sharing economy" too. But then someone just had to make money of it.
>>
No. 41526
31 kB, 283 × 344
Hey Russia what has happened with your medical personnel that falls down the window? Here they are asking me but I prefer to know your opinion

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/04/europe/russia-medical-workers-windows-intl/index.html
>>
No. 41531
103 kB, 474 × 686
>>41526
>"is a victim of an accident due to his own lack of caution"
I was kind of wondering before but the moment I read this I knew he got pushed out a window by FSB or whatever the fuck bureau is in charge of pushing people out of windows. I'm guessing the situation in Russa is now reaching Spain and America levels of shittiness.
>appeared days later with hospital director saying he was emotional
>"we have enough protective equipment"
>>
No. 41534
60 kB, 600 × 400
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT9dFgxE8dA
>Communism is the most inefficient system
Yeah I've officially changed my mind on this. Like what the fuck? We're not even talking about famines because half your country is burned down from civil war and then being invaded by Nazis. This is "you may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like" tier, unless one accepts that the foundation of America has been a shaky mess for quite awhile now. We're reaching breadlines levels over here and meanwhile farmers are throwing food out and killing tens of thousands of animals to dump in a landfill as we speak. It really reminds me of that talk I got at the one job about how I couldn't grab food being thrown away because if it didn't get binned yet it was theft from the company and if I grabbed it from the trash it was theft from the waste management company. Then we get one little coof and everyone loses their minds. This is Soviet levels of bullshit and we're supposedly the richest country in the world.
>>
No. 41542
>>41031
>Do they all just think they're going to be immune from it or something?
In my experience with others who are indifferent (family and friends), they don't perceive themselves as unhealthy (even if they're 60+), so they see the worst consequence as "the flu," maybe a bit worse. They perceive the quarantine as only being necessary for those who are high risk.
So unless people they care for start actively dying, the amount of fucks they can give about catching it is much less than fucks they are currently giving about being inconvenienced/out of work, and people acting unusual.
>>
No. 41549
>>41542
This has been the final nail in the coffin for my convictions about the masses. We actually DO need strong leadership apparently. If you had an educated public this might work but sadly we have third world bydlo and a culture of anti-intellectualism. It has also however shown me in my own country why building democracy in third world countries is a Sisyphean if not outright futile affair. I've made the mistake of talking to people and I am no longer around college students who may go on to get their masters and PhDs so I have spent years being subjected to how dumb everyone else truly is and how much they need to be told exactly what to do. We can try that Socialist level of trying to build a new world and a new man later in terms of a society without leadership or hierarchy which I wanted as a libertarian after we install fierce and intellectual leadership to do so. Actually come to think of it this has also made me realize why all the Socialist revolutions installed a vanguard. It's not simply that they were all as worse shit as the worst monarch but rather that they were smart enough in many cases to have actually realized the real problem of trying to build their society when the starter building material is masses of uneducated bydlo. I now also understand why the Socialists felt the need to stamp out superstitions after talking to people telling me numerous flat earth tier idiotic things over the past few months. I still think Marxism-Leninism was evil for attacking religion, but I can now definitely understand why they were so against superstition because they had to deal with literal peasants believing in anti-vaxx flat earth TCM level bullshit at a structural level.
>>
No. 41559
70 kB, 724 × 788
>>41531
Yes I know I guess the same, but opinions from the source are always nice. Old KC was a Russian powerhouse, heavy quality. Let's see
>>
No. 41562
>>41559
lol we are now at Russia levels of proofery and bullshitting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6b6Bo2zBvI
>>
No. 41578
>>41562
But he will get reelected anyway. Why worry?
>>
No. 41590
>>41578
The only reason to support that at this point is if you hated America so much with a German level of hatred you wanted to see it burn to the ground. Although frankly at this rate it's up in the air if he and Biden will both make it to the election. I'm probably just going to vote third party yet again. I've never actually felt genuinely represented in this country because we don't have an actual labour party for the working class, only corporate whores and police state tyranny wing and the same thing but with dragon dildos outside the closet. I'll pass on both.
>>
No. 41631
903 kB, 2202 × 3000
>>41590
I root for Trump because he's anti globalization but I understand you, I've voted outsiders too. Anyway take care for the future because the political rot can get deep. Anyway again I'm sure I don't say anything that you know already.
>>
No. 41683 Kontra
>>41631
> anti globalization
Says who?

He is as anti globalization as the rest of the rich dude who claims to stand against the old but would cream them selves if the queen made them Duke of Important sounding place. He literally screams "I HAVE MONEY! RESPECT ME!". Fuck him and everyone like him and everyone who believes him. The only positive side is that he doesn't lie because he thinks everything that comes out of his mouth is the truth.
>>
No. 41695
146 kB, 1123 × 666
I don't know about you guys but I'm really feeling this right now
>the car's on fire
>and there's no driver at the wheel
I'm sorry but this guy clearly has no fucking clue wtf he is doingother than trying to find a way to mass sacrifice us in a blood ritual to appease the approval ratings and stock market gods
>>
No. 41708
>>41695
You shouldn't worry.
After a decline in infection rates, German tinfoil-hats are now certain: quarantine did nothing. It's all just a scam by Bill Gates who created this opportunity to vaccinate us all to death. So don't worry, no one is dying of Covid-19, they are all just dying with it, and would have died anyway, sooner or later. The tests are fake and motor oil and goats test positive. If there should be excess mortality anywhere, it's caused by panic and a subsequent collapse in health care, by quarantine measures or by the place in question being a third-world-shithole.
>>
No. 41713 Kontra
>>41708
>The tests are fake and motor oil and goats test positive
It's nice to know that no matter the language, it's still the same retarded shit that spreads like wildfire through Facebook.
Had my father quote the same exact article, where some scientist with an indian last name and a degree from a no-name institution said that "speed tests don't work". No shit. Every government knows that since the start of the European epidemic. That's why they use PCR testing.

There was also another version where another dubious "expert" claimed that all testing is fake because they don't test for the virus but inflammation. So "it's all fake and coronavirus doesn't real".

It's tiresome.
>>
No. 41714
>>41708
Shit. I always thought Germans were rational people but you have some burger tier idiots there, worse even. Or maybe your population is big enough to house enough of them to actually find each other in real life.
>>
No. 41716 Kontra
The dissolution of reality qua the interchangable use of knowledge and information is ofc also strong with corona.
What to do about all these people who in-form themselves via alternative media outlets of any kind and that believe everything or most that contradicts state and main media lines (just for the heck of it)? Expertism is not generally a bad thing, experts are not always right ofc. What I find interesting is that just like leftist did with e.g. nuclear power in the 70s and 80s (at least in Germany but depending on the years also elsewhere) built up counter expertism. You have people in academia whose title serves as authorative claim at first with conspiracy theorists. Yet just like with "leftists" or "alternatives" these people who claim to represent the populus are divided in themselves, they just have a common enemy atm. One funny remark: claiming to represent the populus while seeing oneself in opposition to a mainstream is utterly contradictory and stupid. But people buy it!

I mean laughing it of in Late Night shows won't solve the problem. You just get angry people, the green socialist sjw liberal self righteous meme does not come out of nowhere. The story why we go through an ever more intensifiyng ideological struggle is big.
>>
No. 41717
>>41714
82 Mio. people and at least 1 % is iq89
>>
No. 41718
>>41714
The dumbest parts of the country that give us that horrible "the ugly american" stereotype are all Germanic. Honestly just about every stupid terrible stereotype about us comes from the Germanic parts. The sole exception to this rule is the Anglo-Scots-Irish part of the Southeast which is responsible for Florida Man. Florida Man is Scots Irish. All the rest are Germans.

I just watched this https://youtu.be/MHoDt73N8RU?t=902 and you've got this absolute fucking faggot trying to claim he is exempted from wearing a mask because "panic attacks" and then this faggot is going on the news saying how he's not scared blah blah. I guarantee you he is a poltard. Anyone who knows anything about fucking panic attacks knows you're not going to panic from wearing a mask and instead are going to have major anxiety in a crowd like that, especially if I have to be surrounded by stupid people. I mean just imagine you have your normal anxiety on top of a fucking pandemic and having to actually deal with these goddamn retards.
>b-but muh rights muh constitution!
I also guarantee you not fucking one of these dipshits ever gave a shit about any part of the actual Constitution. The whole country is nothing but a bunch of completely embarrassing self entitled ignorant faggots at this point.
>>
No. 41719
>>41716
I find it a pretty absurd comedy that the very people I was describing as NPCs on KC all those years ago and it is VERY telling that it spread from KC to become a 4kanker meme so quickly are now accusing others of being NPCs for not nodding their heads and agreeing with their mindless insanity.

It's exactly like I told you all years ago. These are not even real people. They do not even pass the Turing test when you talk to them online, or even IRL. The only thing you can do with stupid people is pretend to agree with them while manipulating them. That is something that for example the GOP had figured out long ago. See what they realized and the Dems didn't is that a lot of the working class genuinely are stupid as hell. Yuppies are pretty fucking stupid too. There's a reason why they were able to manipulate these people into voting against their own interests, dissolving their own unions, shipping all their jobs overseas, and then turning everything into a blame Soros dem darkies be keepin man virginity down sort of thing.

The first thing you have got to understand is stupid people will never change their minds and at a certain segment on the bell curve cannot ever be educated. They are NPCs. You just have to figure out what dumb shit you want to program into them while having the foresight to understand that it's like a really bad floppy disk with bad sectors where you can't just write over it so easily so don't program them to blame everything on 5G if you want your own 5G network in the future. Or at least, it takes slightly more effort to program poltard NPCs and boomers into thinking liberals/Jews/China/Soros is trying to stop them from having 5G because it cures homosexual brainwaves.

Pearls before swine and all that. Never enter into discussion with stupid people with honest intentions.
>>
No. 41724
>>41250
A lot of the reasons that made concentrated cities attractive also turned out to be reasons that rendered them weak. Or maybe I'm just trying to get out of my life stuck in high-rent tech dystopias.

>>41253
Everyone seems to love home officing except me. I mean not for myself, but we had a significant drop in productivity (and people are working longer as a result). The casual information flow in an office environment is really something - wasn't just for show.

But most companies are designed around employees being inefficient so whenever I talk to someone in a megacorp they're saying it's all fine

>>41335
I was actually thinking that the virus situation destroyed the worst things about Turkey
>People no longer approach you up close
>Strangers are not inclined to start conversations
>They now know how to get in lines
>And they're washing themselves (somewhat)
>>
No. 41729
>>41716
Perhaps reality humans have built for themselves has grown too complex for a certain threshold of the population (or maybe even all of us) to really understand. And when understanding fails, the next best thing is heuristics, mythos, and storytelling. So you have these groups that construct myths and narratives that help them deal with complex phenomena beyond their grasp. People did the same thing with nature, making stories about thunder and lightning. But tools for understanding those things have developed, maybe in the future we will have the tools to understand the reality we have built for ourselves. This mythological mode of thinking can't be eradicated through reason, it's an inherent part of humanity. A person who is reasonable in one domain, can employ mythological thinking in other domains that he does not understand. It's probably why my uncle with engineering education and high intelligence still falls for televised propaganda and holds rather dumb religious beliefs.

Although, there is something to be said about the virtue of acknowledging your own ignorance, accepting it and shutting the fuck up. But certain dumb people really like to imagine that they've got it all figured out.
>>
No. 41734 Kontra
>>41729
I agree with the myth function, it won't wither away and seems very much integral until now and for the future. Myths serve as explanation, sciences is a rival when it comes to explanation as it's methods is different. Even though ofc one can argue that scientism itself is an ideology that overlooks things, meaning it deduces things from scientific facts that aren't actually easily deducible like that. Scientific discovery and moral codes e.g.

>But certain dumb people really like to imagine that they've got it all figured out.

Hm. It's interesting and a clichee that for myself I discovered what Plato put on Socrates tounge: The more I read, the more I'm aware that I don't know shit, the territory of personal non-knowledge grows everday. Still with that tiny amount of knowledge that you can call your own at a certain point in life is better then less knowledge.
A conspiracy theories substance is exactly having it all figured out. Every paranoid mind has it all layed out, all pieces fit the bill all strings come together, connections are made but the fabric does not show any proofs :DD but my guts resonate that, is proofs enough
>>
No. 41738
Man this video would make a really great intro to a game somehow. Just the beat theyve got it down pat for being a soundtrack to something like Pandemic 2 or Plague Inc or whatever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxmHQM_dHZo
>>
No. 41740
>>41718
> "the ugly american" stereotype are all Germanic
I don't really doubt that anymore.

>>41719
I think the saying goes:
Never enter in a discussion with idiots, they will lower you to their level and win by experience.
>>
No. 41741 Kontra
Social media causes a disease I like to call "loud expertism". The people prone to it are mainly proles who haven't attained higher education.

The symptoms include treating facebook as a respectable source, believing dodgy articles and acting like an expert after reading two-three articles.

It's a horrible, incurable disease.
>>
No. 41742
>>41716
>What to do about all these people who in-form themselves via alternative media outlets of any kind and that believe everything or most that contradicts state and main media lines (just for the heck of it)?
Why do anything about them? If the leaders of this free society really believe in freedom of speech and freedom of opinion, they won't do much but try to convince in deed and word. They certainly won't ask social media platforms to prevent the dissemination of contradictory opinions.

I can understand why people distrust the government and main-media-line:
First, it was 'this is only the flu, we will do nothing about it, anyone who even thinks about travel restrictions is a nazi.' If you don't agree, I can google up videos to substantiate my argument.
Then, the line was 'omfg, shut down everything.' Notice that it was not 'we were wrong, shut down anything.' Just changed completely over night, like in 1984 when the enemy changes from Eurasia to East Asia and back.
First it was 'simple cloth masks are entirely useless.' Now, they are required on public transport and in supermarkets.
It's hard to trust in the authority of someone who changes his opinion by 180° in a matter of days, not weeks.
That might be one force at work.

But there are also some benefits to believe in certain crank-theories.
Knowing what others don't know and getting that knowledge from non-mainstream-sources gives some people a feeling of exclusivity and superiority. In their mind, due to their keen intellect, they have found and digested those marvels of information and seen it all through. Being none of the sheeple appeals to their vanity.
Another benefit is convenience. People believe what is convenient. At the moment, it's convenient to believe that it's all a panic. If you chose to believe this, then you don't have to wear those damn facial masks properly, you can leave your nose uncovered, and look down on all those idiots who wear them properly. Kind of like the kid who jaywalks and looks down on those who wait for the light to turn green. A little excursion: In Germany, we take pedestrian signals seriously. Even responsible adults wait for the light to turn green. Rebellious teenagers feel superior and grown-up for jay-walking. They feel like they have seen through the lie: they crossed on red, and they weren't ran over, so they only have contempt for those idiots who are dumb enough to not jaywalk.

Some people probably are just cranks by personality. As a layman, I think those people are actually somewhere close to schizophrenic, but not close enough to be diagnosed. They have this feeling that reality is not what it seems and that people are trying to manipulate them in very sinister ways. Take the god-damn anti-vaxxers who honestly believe in the wildest bullshit-theories, like that poliomyelitis was caused by DDT and the introduction of a vaccine did nothing.

So what do you do about them?
First part: if you want to be trusted, act like a person that deserves trust. Don't go from "no worse than the flu" to "you are now on lockdown" in 10 days. Think of what might come some time ahead and communicate honestly.
Second part: Cranks will be cranks, there's not much you can do about it.

>You have people in academia whose title serves as authorative claim at first with conspiracy theorists
Oh god, yes, they really are suckers for that. Take Dr. Rüdiger Dahlke, for example. Dr. Rüdiger Dahlke wrote a Ph.D. thesis about psychosomatic complaints in children, 30 years ago. To some people, that gives him so much authority that they can defend his theories by saying something along the lines of 'he is a medical doctor, and you are not.' Dr. Rüdiger Dahlke is also a borderline Breatherian ('evidence that people can survive on light can not be denied', quoted from his homepage.) Even if you don't believe in vaccines, it should be self-evident to intelligent grown ups that humans need to eat to survive. At least, they act accordingly every day. They feed themselves, they feed their children, and probably also their dog. So it seems to be clear to them that we need to eat, and subsequently, that Dahlke is full of shit and that you should not count on his medical expertise if you want to survive. They still go on to share his blog posts on facebook.

Excuse the rant. I am related to some of the cranks.
>>
No. 41745
>>41714
>Shit. I always thought Germans were rational people but you have some burger tier idiots there, worse even. Or maybe your population is big enough to house enough of them to actually find each other in real life.
We are burger-tier. Still, I have a gut feeling that quite a few of our best tin-foil-hats were not home grown, but imported from Eastern Europe and the middle East.

>>41718
Probably true.
>>
No. 41746 Kontra
Well, there have been some good news in the past few weeks at least.
The researchers in Hong Kong came up with a "cocktail" that nearly halves recovery time. (Though it requires Remdesivir (among other antivirals), which is still hard to manufacture, so it limits availability severely, and makes it only viable in the early stages of the infection.)
The New York City antibody tests have been positive, showing a 15-20% antibody rate in the population based on the samples.
>>
No. 41747 Kontra
>>41742
>to prevent the dissemination of contradictory opinions.

There is not even a problem with opinions, it's just that rationality seems gone out of the window in large parts. I can understand that people feel betrayed and forgotten, there seems less favor for parts of society. The future outlook for many seems bleak. Environmental destruction, institutions of often supranational constitution that are only partly politically controlled etc.
But the problem to me is that gut feeling is fed by obscure shit and people buy it immediately. Tbh I've been exposed and exposed myself unknowningly to conspiracy theories when I was in my late teens. Endgame and all that alternative shit, also from there to spiritualism or even esoteric stuff e.g. for the former might be the Gaia hypothesis - YouTube delivered it all. Luckily my mum, who I told her about my newly aquired knowledge - about how society really works and why people have to wake up - pointed out things that made me think over time. You might be right: It makes you feel special as you feel enlightend and it serves the gut feeling that something is wrong with society and your position in it.

>It's hard to trust in the authority of someone who changes his opinion by 180° in a matter of days

Expert conflicts and politicians that remain to the game of being popular and voteable face(d) a more or less unknown situation. I remember politicians saying how shutting down schools is the last straw, we can't just easily do it and within not even a week it was decided. These politicians perhaps underestimated what would come. Look to the US, I remember a podcast I was listening to, we already had social distancing here while a caller from the US reported that he still has to work without masks in a hotel with many guests arriving etc. The UK even later, the numbers might speak for themselves, though reaction time ofc is not the only factor but a crucial one.

These people expected something from the state (they basically have faith in authorities taking command), ofc, but mistrusted Merkel as representaive of a "poltical caste" before corona already. They expect command and control and now that they got it, they go muh freedom tier. What is even worse is the MY, MY, MY, MY while chanting phrases that evoke the image of a collective. And old unsolved binary I guess but yeah these people don't think about that. The self reflexivity seems low. Can I expect everybody to unravel their self and being a free time philosopher and seeing that their might be no end to it? No. But I don't want that attitude to be mainstream neither, it's seems horrible naive of many things. There is no easy way out.
Again, their gut feeling is not without a reason, we all have seen enough investigative journalism since we grew up to know that things ain't floating fine and nice for everybodies benefit.
>>
No. 41748
>>41734
Regarding scientism, there seemed to be a narrative in the last couple centuries of wectern consciousness of man as conqueror of nature, master of reality, a God in his own right, who through science and technology can achieve anything and bend everything to his will. I guess nowadays we'd call this narrative "randian" and put it in the second half of 20th century, but it feels like it's been there much longer, and maybe even informed the modernist narratives of first half of 20th century, with their ambition of directly steering history Power of Will(tm) or Revolutionary Action(tm).

But as much as we see how it held true for dealing with external reality (as far as I know, I'm not a science eggspert), the reality humans have build for themselves has become incomprehensible and uncontrollable. And there's this ambient anxiety in the population that reality might not be so easily conquered after all, and that the promised technological utopia might become a technological nightmare. I'm not sure if the source of the anxiety comes from technology failing to solve these human/existential problems, causing them, or through abundant information disillusioning people to the old narratives and propaganda that promised their solution. Or something in between or all three. Maybe it is simply the case that whenever a system reaches it apex and reveals itself fully, what follows immediately is disillusionment and skepticism.

It's also interesting how divisive figures like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos have emerged right at this point of no return. In a way, they are living symbols of the randian hero archetype. The synchronicity is out of control, memes are manifesting into reality :-DDDD. (also, normies call Elon Musk "real life Iron Man", but I wonder if they understand what and who the Tony Stark character was inspired by when he was created)

All in all, it seems we're living during some kind of turning point in history, which is a huge fucking bummer.
>>
No. 41766
>>41748
Causing them. There is an intense subconscious Wectern fear of us being destroyed by our own hubris through technology. I'm sure you're heavily exposed enough to our media to know the amount of alienation and distrust everybody here feels towards various institutions and a brooding sense of ha going too far and things no longer being in our control.

Actually come to think of it if I could succinctly describe our mindsets as northerners and westerners on the yurop it would be "control freaks." You will notice how the great primal fear of these societies towards technology we use to control situations is literally technology no longer being under our control or our inability to control our own systems to save them. I will say however that the standard line about conspiracy theories being "its comforting someone is in control" is stupid as FUCK. The most worrying thing to me is that a small cabal could achieve absolute control with no way for us to ever escape or resist. Coronachan is wonderfully reassuring to me because it shows how not in control most human agencies really are.
>>
No. 41767
>>41747
I will tell you right now that what happened to my country was a deadly mixture of greed, incompetence, and anti-intellectualism. None of this was a matter of course. People were being forced not to wear masks in travel and high traffic jobs like hotels and gas stations as late as mid to late March even in places like New York, and even nurses have been told either dont wear masks or only wear surgical masks by hospitals in major metropolitan centers. Of the three things killing my country, the deadliest of these is greed. Greed by the hospital directors. Greed by the hospital and corporate board of directors. Greed by politicians. That is why we're going to have over 100,000 dead Americans before June.
>>
No. 41774
>>41748

Randian would be something different than just mere domination of (outside) nature. The endeavor of science as instrument for domination can be at least traced back to Francis Bacon, he was burning for that quest. Adorno and Horkheimer with their "Dialectic of Enlightement" gave their story of civilization which is entangled with enlightenment. According to them reason as instrument can be found even in the old myths. Homer's Odyssey serves as an example. Enlightenment in their eyes has become crippled, reduced to instrumentality. The domination of nature over the course of history also lead to the domination of man himself as he is part of nature as well.
So all in all it's the rather long trajectory of modernity (it's prehistory included) understood as progress in X (science e.g.)

Randian would be libertarian capitalism. Currently reading Fred Turners From Counterculture to Cyberculture where he unfolds a story along the biography of Stewart Brand, founder of the Whole Earth Catalog and the emergence of digital utopianism. Basically communitarian lifestyles, many anarchic communes were founded at the end of the 1960s. That also gave birth to the catalog as "access to tools" (so the subtitle). Brand was circulating between counterculture taking acid, making multimedia art and hang out with people doing so as well in SF and NY alike, people like the Merry Pranksters who toured the US in a school bus doing "Acid Tests" but also artists like Rauschenberg, systems theory aka cybernethics and new age becoming whole, argumented consciousness via technologies, which means LSD and small tools alike, and with that argumented or alternated consciousness ...they believed in social change through self transformation of individuals and military-academia complex which was perceived as bureucratic/technocratic but having the technology. So it all boils down ideologically to make technology personal and individial so as to make it a tool of liberation and self transformation. This mixes with enterpreneurial spirit that is self centered, everybody is responsible for him/herself, that is the randian viewpoint: the self and nothing else, individuality is what you are after and what is upheld. It comes first. Individials in a network are still nodes of that network and not subsumed.

Regarding technology generally: Hard to say, but I want to read more on the human-machine relationship as I think we haven't gotten very far. Cultural pessimism or likewise the insistence on the fix via technology seems both not adequite as to grasp what is going on, it's reduction, blindsighted ina a way.
Did you know that the notion of complexity was very prominent within cybernetics? One of System theory's concern is complexity (of systems)
There exist theories that state that there is a technosphere which is beyond the control of man.
>>
No. 41775 Kontra
294 kB, 1214 × 820
At least one group of people here is not acting like morons, and the morons in charge and trying to get them to be morons too
https://www.ajc.com/news/sioux-tribes-refuse-south-dakota-gov-order-remove-highway-checkpoints/teNf3i7Dyj2OdOqaGbrrYJ/
Some tribes set up checkpoints to try and stop the virus and the Republican governor is trying to force them to stay open.

I am increasingly convinced these people are literal worshipers of the ruinous powers and are trying to sacrifice as many people as possible to Nurgle.
>>
No. 41776 Kontra
>>41774
Lutz Dammbeck made a codumentary called The Net that features many things that are told by Turner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgHlhBceR78

It has subtitles and features Ted. K. (Unabomber) as antagonist. Tbh Dammbeck is obviously on the pessmist corner, even conspiracial one could say. But reading all that stuff about John Brockman and his systemic evolutionary account, his third culture which is a mix a scientism liberarianism I can understand why K. did the bombings. It makes more sense now. But I guess it's a bit small to just take these people as the only actors of technology. They have influence yes, but they don't control the progress in itself.
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No. 41828
318 kB, 1194 × 669
504 kB, 1200 × 675
I just saw a new Smirnoff ad which showed a large party, and they flashed this disclaimer on the screen: "Previously filmed and re-editted". Apparently they were ready to launch a new campaign, but had to change everything to give it a Covid-19 theme.
I miss the early days of this pandemic, when there were normal commercials, instead of all these new ones with messages about social distancing.
Hey, someone made a montage:

Every Covid-19 Commercial is Exactly the Same
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM3J9jDoaTA

Alright, I'll give Smirnoff credit. Their ad was better than all of those.
>>
No. 41833
>>41828
Honestly what bugs me is just the constant reminder of how fucking braindead most of the planet/country/species really is. They just mindlessly parrot what they're told. No critical thinking at all. Thank God my state finally dropped down the mask requirements on all us. No, you stupid fucking shit, standing 6 feet instead of 4 feet away from everyone isn't what's saving you, it's wearing a goddamn mask and gloves along with everyone else and people constantly sanitizing the shit out of everything. Like just what the fuck is standing apart supposed to do if the shit gets aerosolized? How do you think this will save you when fifty customers are fondling everything in the fucking store and you ram that cheeseburger and monster into your gob? The sheer stupidity of people is absolutely breathtaking and at this point I've largely been ignoring everything anyone around me thinks or has to say or does beyond what I deem necessary. I can't stop them infecting each other but I can slow it down and reduce my own risk. Like, okay I'm sorry to go on a rant but Jesus fucking Christ I was unconsentedly having the same dumb interview loop in my head repeatedly of this dumb as shit black guy jogging in a park who used the phrase "social distancing style obviously" like what the fuck, is this some joke or meme to all of you stupid shits? I HATE this culture to no end. It is pure trash and what few good things there were are totally gone since YT became google property and phoneshit everywhere, and these dumb motherfuckers finally start talking shit seriously purely because they're told to. Meanwhile I've got plenty enough other jackasses they get to feel superior to because they're only stupid, not legitimately mentally damaged like the people who think 5G is doing this. It is cringe inducing and infuriating watching this stupid shit and I think a large part of it is the massive exposure of how everyone is a bunch of frauds. Nothing about the reactions are genuine or sincere. It's like they're all a bunch of faggots internally trying to pose for their selfie sticks. And someone finally told them, hey don't fall off a cliff, so they're walking around looking like complete assholes holding their selfie sticks and posing on camera reminding each other to keep a slimmer profile because someone told them something about wind resistance blowing them over and just nodding along yeah slim profile style bro as they're all marching backwards towards the edge.
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No. 41838
44 kB, 540 × 556
>>41833
I'm gonna continue not wearing a mask just for you, Ernst.
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No. 41864
>>41838
Please tell me you have a government post with the Tories somewhere
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No. 41865
>>41838
you have to go back to kohl
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No. 41868 Kontra
56 kB, 800 × 450
>>41864
Nuh. I really just don't give a shit. Your whole elitist tone about how much 'better' you are than everyone else just gave me spite as an additional reason.

>>41865
There is a 100% chance that I've been on EC longer than you tbh.
>>
No. 41991
Russia has recently overtaken Spain for title of second worst number of confirmed cases but still has a long way to go to even hope for the Blini challenging the Burger
>>
No. 41992
>>41991
i made burgers yesterday btw.
Medium rare, cheese on top, toasted buns, tomato, pickle, ketchup, and onions.
>>
No. 41993
>>41992
Excellent. I hope you enjoyed them
>>
No. 41995
116 kB, 1400 × 1050
367 kB, 893 × 518
When I see stories about a new piece of technology being deployed to fight the virus, I become suspicious that some clever businessman is about to fleece the public, selling expensive equipment no one needs. Maybe I'm too cynical.

>The video starts with appropriately menacing music. On the left is a motionless police officer, face hidden by an outsized helmet with a camera mounted on top. On the right is the live feed from the helmet itself, showing people walking around in face masks. A number displays above their heads as they move around — their live body temperature, as captured by the helmet's infrared camera.
>This is a YouTube video advertising the wares of KC Wearable, one of many Chinese companies pushing futuristic surveillance tech to keep track of the COVID-19 outbreak.
>Experts are skeptical about how helpful temperature scanning will be.
>people could be running a temperature for a number of other reasons, such as going through the menopause. "That leads to a whole bunch of false positives,"
>There are also questions about who should be wearing these helmets, and what they should do once an alarm is triggered.
>Is it really up to the police to identify people with a temperature?
>While countries such as Singapore and China have deployed everything from robot dogs to drone spies to monitor the population, most citizens in Europe are unused to being tracked in this way.

Police in China, Dubai, and Italy are using these surveillance helmets to scan people for COVID-19 fever as they walk past and it may be our future normal
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-italy-holland-china-temperature-scanning-helmets-2020-5

>>41992
>toasted buns
A wise decision. It only takes a minute, but makes a huge difference in flavor.
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No. 41996
>>41995
The problem is what kind of a generalized police state this will lead to and I for one do not support one shred of post-9/11 tier lies and faggotry inflicted upon us by the faggots in charge of everything and you know damn well it's for population control not whatever the stated purpose happens to be. That's just going to make us into more of a police state.

Furthermore it's chink technology which means even if you forget about the fact it gives chinks an even greater backdoor into spying on us and manipulating our societies and even if it does work it's still giving them money, which I adamantly oppose on all fronts, at any time, and for any reason.
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No. 42023
169 kB, 305 × 426
>>41865
No one should wear a mask because a cure for COVID-19 already exists. By wearing a mask you are just enabling DRACO denialism and holding back the advancement of modern medicine.
>>
No. 42046 Kontra
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-13/russian-wealth-fund-says-favipiravir-trial-for-covid-promising
>The Russian Direct Investment Fund’s joint venture with ChemRar group has been testing favipiravir at 18 clinics in Moscow, Nizhny Novgorod and Smolensk. Preliminary results are “promising,” indicating that 60% of people who receive the treatment test negative for Covid-19 on the fifth day, Chief Executive Officer Kirill Dmitriev said Wednesday.

It's interesting how we hear so little about Favipiravir despite the Chinese stating in the early periods of the epidemic that it's quite effective. Not to mention it's probably a hell of a lot cheaper than Remdesivir.

Based on the worldometers data, the recovery-to-death ration has been improving quite a bit over the past month, going from 78/22 to 86/04. Same with the proportion of severe cases. Severe cases have been on the decline even if you look at the absolute value. Went from something like 55k to just 43k over the past few weeks. So despite more people getting the thing, most of the new cases aren't adding to the severe strain on the ICU capacity.
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No. 42075
322 kB, 1132 × 954
348 kB, 640 × 360, 0:07
>>41996
>The problem is what kind of a generalized police state this will lead to
This. The desperation over Covid-19 is similar to post-9/11 fear-it makes people stop thinking and accept any proposed solution. The ACLU even issued a statement to this effect

>Towns and the state should be wary of self-interested, privacy-invading companies using COVID-19 as a chance to market their products and create future business opportunities

https://www.acluct.org/en/press-releases/statement-regarding-westport-drone-covid-19-pilot-program

Following headlines like pic 1, a town in Connecticut changed its mind and decided not to use "pandemic drones", but in the end we're all going to be monitored by the eye in the sky. Maybe it will be drones, or maybe it will be surveillance planes like in Baltimore. Remember that story from a few years ago, where they were filming the entire city without telling the public? Well, after a court battle those planes are back.
From May 1st:

>The controversial aerial surveillance planes for Baltimore police started flying Friday, recording movements of everyone in the city during the day
>This is the second life of this program in Baltimore. It first operated in secret in 2016 under then-Commissioner Kevin Davis. Now, it's more public, but the debate remains the same: Is it an invasion of privacy or an effective crime-fighting tool?
>It's called the Aerial Investigation Research (AIR) Pilot Program, and it's operated by an Ohio-based company and is paid for by a Texas billionaire.
>The American Civil Liberties Union lost a court battle to keep the program grounded, but the organization has already appealed.
>"It's the most comprehensive surveillance ever imposed on an American city in the history of the country," ACLU of Maryland attorney David Rocah said. "It's the virtual equivalent of having a police officer follow a resident every time they walk out the door, and if that happened in real life, all of us would understand the huge privacy implications in doing that."

Surveillance plane starts flying over Baltimore, recording everyone's movements
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/baltimore-police-surveillance-plane-starts-flying-recording-everyones-movements/32346318

The judge who permitted these flights to continue, reasoned that the image resolution was low, and so there was no violation of privacy. Of course they don't need high resolution if they can simply follow everyone back to their home. And that says nothing about the slippery slope, and that once we get used to these low resolution images, it will be easier to upgrade to something like Gorgon Stare:

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgon_Stare

>>42046
>It's interesting how we hear so little about Favipiravir
I'm used to hearing about hydroxychloroquine, because Trump promoted it as a cure a month ago. Now, that drug is basically a political issue. The public splits, as they always do. One side says Trump is lying about how good hydroxychloroquine is, while the other side claims the media is covering up a proven treatment out of spite. It's all so tiresome, and tbh I'm happy to see another drug take some of the headlines.
Btw, Trump just announced that he is healthy, but is taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventative measure.

>Mr. Trump said on Monday that he has been taking hydroxychloroquine, an antimalarial drug whose effectiveness against the virus is unproven, for about a week and a half as a preventive measure.
>Early studies of hydroxychloroquine in the laboratory, which showed that the drug could block the virus from attacking cells, prompted enthusiasm. But the studies of the drug in humans have largely proved disappointing, and some have pointed to serious side effects in people with heart problems.
>“I’m not going to get hurt by it,” said Mr. Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/us/coronavirus-updates.html#link-28469e76
>>
No. 42078 Kontra
>>42075
See there's a real reason for the reaction with protests, abundantly retarded though the protesters themselves may be as well as their whiny entitled gripes about not getting to buy lawn fertilizer for a couple months. We have a general suspicion of government here for a reason despite the fact most of those protesters themselves otherwise wildly approve all the exact police state bullshit to begin with and only went out in the streets crying like babies for the one few times where government actually is right for once, literally because they couldn't get a cheeseburger because it's the sole remaining thing Americans have and the end result of this is liable to be that we're just going to be saddled with literally China tier lack of freedoms and we already are well below a lot of European and other countries in the freedoms department thanks largely to Republican policies with the occasional retarded NYC nanny state bullshit.

Re: HCQ
My immediate reaction when I first heard of this is that Trump himself is probably not even taking it. While it wouldnt surprise me all that much if tons of people on his own staff getting sick has pushed him to finally act more paranoid or neurotic I also wouldn't put it past him at all to start openly lying about taking it because he thinks it will calm people down. He literally used the phrase "because I want people to feel good" as his rationale, i.e. "I want people to think we have an actual treatment or plan happening in this absolute dumpster fire."

The added problem is that drug actually does work for some legitimate medical problems and the stupid fuck is causing a run on the supplies. I have a family member who has Lupus and actually takes the shit for their immune disorderwhich clearly is making me nervous about that person contracting SARS2 electric boogaloo. So I'm not even worried so much about a bunch of obese boomers keeling over from heart attacks as I am him causing supply runs on medicines that may not work for this but do work for other problems and then the people who need those drugs getting shafted. I wouldn't even care as much if he was pushing his latest Forsythia bullshit if it was just something that nobody actually needs.

Honestly this guy is a total walking disaster at this point. He's clearly absolutely desperate and I think that a lot of his latest firings have more to do with the fact he knows he can easily get prosecuted for a bunch of shit or get fined into bankruptcy and he's desperately trying to insulate himself in case he loses the election. Literally no matter what happens a third of the country will vote for him. The same is true of any Dem candidate no matter how awful they are because like this ernst says everything gets turned into a ridiculous kulturkampf issue. The thing is, that only gets you so far.

Every president has at least one national or global crisis to respond to he never wanted, did not ask for, likely did not anticipate or prepare for, that becomes the defining moment of his presidency, and this guy is an astoundingly miserable failure at addressing this one. Kennedy had for example Vietnam and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Bush had arguably three, with his totally botched response to two of them--the recession and Katrina--being why he got remembered as a miserable failure, and arguably the war on Iraq 2.0 being a policy failure from the third because Iraq had fuckall to do with 9/11. Obama had ISIS and fixing the recession. Trump arguably had fixing ISIS (I forget if it already wound down before he was in office in 2017 only that it officially ended after) and now this. I think he expected to just coast through the presidency on a ginned up economy. With a third of all global infections and deaths on the planet needless to say I am not impressed. It's just like I told you guys months ago, that this is going to fuck up our country hardest because in addition to systemic problems leaving us vulnerable no matter who is in charge that this administration would act as a force multiplier on the crisis and he exceeded even my already bottomed out expectations for disaster response.

I furthermore think that POTUS is going to keep fucking up throughout the rest of the summer. I fully expect him to latch onto some unproven and largely untested vaccine or "cure" and have the CDC and Pence bury any contradictory information in some kind of Mission Accomplished moment. I expect this to also get lots of Americans killed as he rushes deployment of something right before the elections. I also expect him to try forcing the economy open in such a way as to tell people the crisis is now over, at which point we're going to have lots of dumbasses doing what I've already seen which is going to waterparks and hanging out at packed bars and create a tsunami of new cases. The problem is this thing ballooned over the span of weeks and months. It won't be like last time. We're not starting off with just a few thousand cases--we're now starting with over a million cases. This means that by the time the numbers start ticking up even if we slammed everything shut all at once the cases are going to mushroom into tens of millions in no time thus more likely than not causing the total collapse of health infrastructure these lockdowns had been trying to prevent. This is going to cause chaos and mass death on an almost unprecedented scale which I don't think he understands means it's going to flatline consumer confidence immediately after it happens, which he likely is going to blame on the media, China, and probably some CDC scapegoat he thinks he can throw under the bus like Redfield or Fauci or maybe even Pence at that point, all while desperately trying to cover up the full scale of the disaster. Like I don't think it even occurs to him that he probably could have things back to order somewhat by November if he just left things in place, in similar manner as to how it probably never dawned on him that downplaying it throughout January and February and into March to save muh stawks did nothing but guarantee that shit would hit the fan spectacularly thus tanking the economy far worse. Seriously this is such simple shit and it astounds me it occurs to seemingly no one in the WH, and even that wouldnt be a problem if he just let the censored CDC guidelines get circulated, or even just told people hey if you're going to be in a crowded bar at least wear fucking PPE for all the good that's gonna do you.

All that being stated he deserves credit for not instituting martial law, rightfully pointing out CHYNA, half heartedly trying some earlier bans when all the retarded DAS RAYCISS liberals were telling people to go to Chinatown and have gay feminist parades, and and. I'm spacing on it. He did do something else right. But all told, we're still very much in deep shit in this country. Polite contra because I hate going into murican politiks.
>>
No. 42093
>>41995
Right, so a few things first:

1-This is a PR piece, not a news article.

I sometimes wish I could forget about the existence of PR, focus groups, product placements and all that. I can't enjoy anything. Anyway this is blatantly that Chinese company of Doctor something trying to find buyers for its product.

2-The details suggest that at this stage it's just a prototype that only works under strict, non real-life conditions. Another thing that sticks out is that they've sent "stuff" to Italy etc. to gain international credibility, but they don't have customers there.
>>
No. 42094
>>42093
>>41995

As for the efficacy, there are two dimensions to this

>1- Is fever detection useful?
>2- Is fever detection done by this particular device accurate?

Now, since my company is actually building a fever + mask detection device I can give you guys some under the hood details, though of course you should all listen to me regardless of my personal exposure to to a particular topic since I'm right all the time anyway.

>1- Is fever detection useful?
In a very limited fashion yes. The real problem with Covid-19 is the asymptomatic spread but still, there is symptomatic spread as well. These sorts of checks have limited spread in China in SARS era before by keeping idiots from spreading pestilence indoors.

But that's not the main point.

The main point is assuring everyone inside that no one among them has a fever. So you'll go out and work, shop, do GDP increasing things.

>2- Is fever detection done by this particular device accurate
tl;dr no, due to physics and shit
The further away from the measured surface you are, the worse precision your results are going to get. Those FLIR cameras are good to have an idea, and they're the only ones which can do wide-area monitoring but the accuracy isn't that great.

We are forcing people to come up close to a machine and stand in a fixed spot ~15cm's from the device to get a good reading but that doesn't fit with the ethos of the cool AR helmet which might end up being vaporware.

>BONUS QUESTION: What's the point of these devices? Muh bolice state?
The point is to replace the dude checking people for a fever before boarding a plane with an infrared thermometer. Inefficient as fuck. Or enforce mask wearing without some fat american spitting out a lecture about muh rights.
>>
No. 42100 Kontra
>>42093
>wish I could forget about the existence of PR, focus groups, product placements and all that.

Now that you mention it ... I mean product placement is oftentimes easy to spot. I haven't looked up the link so maybe it can be seen. Ah, the golden heir of the information society: process info to sell shit more effiently.
>>
No. 42104
>>42094
Hey I'm not really fat for the most part. As for your specific mention of planes how exactly is a flying drone supposed to monitor people boarding a flight indoors? Why not just stick it with the Mr.McRape xray vision machines too then? Personally I really don't even see fever detection as much of any use. What you have to do is get people feeling sick to stay home, and keep everyone in PPE when they leave home which like you said there's asymptomatic carriers so stopping that 1/10 people from wandering around like retards is stopping an even smaller fraction of the public. I don't like the idea of us having an even more Orwellian police state than we do and I strongly resent them trying to force a cashless society on us. You live near/in London so of course these issues wouldnt occur to/bother you. Is lung AIDS the price of liberty?
America
YES

however all the real bullshit of this situation in general but particularly in this country is an economic one. I have got to figure out a way to stay home more often from my retarded in the pandemic job.
>>
No. 42138
I really like how international media has started to shame Sweden for not locking up its citizen. Denmark and Norway of course always write "OMG LOOK AT SWEDEN" stuff but now other big media houses has begun.

I recognize the need to be able to point fingers at someone different but it is a bit silly when they make up the news them selves or quote random dude on twitter saying everything is shit.

Denmark, Finland and Norway doesn't want to let in Swedish tourists but if it is so bad here, why do they come here?
Every other day I see Danish cars or hear Danish when I'm out for lunch, even at the dreaded all you can eat restaurant. Norway has huge problems with people sneaking over the border.

It will be interesting to see the results of everything. My guess is a rise in domestic abuse, mental health issues, lack of exercise and other fun things nobody thought of. And this is just here, what about countries that had people locked up for months.
>>
No. 42140
>>42138
>when I'm out for lunch, even at the dreaded all you can eat restaurant
If you are still doing this that is why they are making fun of you.

Honestly I'm really surprised foreigners aren't making fun of us. The only two countries more retarded are Brazil and based Turkmenbashi 2: The Turkening. Like I'm not sure it's even fair to say that Swedes and Brits are any longer contenders for top three most retarded countries in this pandemic, if that makes you feel any betteryou're still probably the most thoroughly retarded continentals though
>>
No. 42141
457 kB, 720 × 480
>>42139
>The only two countries more retarded are Brazil and based Turkmenbashi 2: The Turkening.
I'd fucking wish.
>>
No. 42143
>>42141
Oh right I forgot about the Slavs. They're not still recommending getting drunk to cure themselves are they? And speaking of which how the fucking hell did you guys go from practically no confirmed cases to being the only country behind us? You Russians scheming to take our top place or something?
>>
No. 42144
>>42143
>They're not still recommending getting drunk to cure themselves are they?

>Mr Lukashenko advised repeated visits to the sauna, or banya, followed by up to 100ml of vodka.

>And speaking of which how the fucking hell did you guys go from practically no confirmed cases to being the only country behind us?
"More COVID tests" or so. You should rather consult Russian mass media, everything feels so fucked up so I lost track of it.
>>
No. 42147
>>42144
I knew about this I just didn't know if he changed his tune or went all in on full retard.

Perhaps that is why no one is mocking us that much, because they are much more busy being outraged and mocking their own governments.
>>
No. 42152
>>42147
I think he just don't care.

>>42144
More funny was interview where he said "did you see a virus? I don't see, there no viruses"
>>
No. 42158
>>42140
> making fun
No, it is anger that comes from fear. Nobody makes fun of us. It is almost Internet rage and part jealousy. When I say go out to lunch everyone assumes that we sit on restaurants packed as sardines because someone took a picture with a tele-lense on the camera. If the restaurant is almost empty, why can't I sit there? I also ask if they think it is ok to sit there because in the end they are the ones who will have to close if it is to crowded. Then there is always take away. Then many work from home too. But who do they interview? 20 year olds from Stockholm hanging out in restaurants, because that gives such a complete picture, also because they are easiest to find since most people aren't there.

There is also pressure from the home audience to kick us in the balls because we can't be doing it right asking the citizen to act like adults. But yes, people die. One reason for that is pointing to workers in homes for elderly not following basic hygiene protocols, not visitors. And that is linked to privatization and cost cutting, the usual suspects. There is criminal investigations ongoing in some cases.
Another thing to understand is like every other country the spread isn't uniform. Basically we have Stockholm and the rest of the country. For now the rest of the country is doing OK-ish. Some parts are doing better then our neighboring countries. But since 20 year olds from Stockholm is the norm in foreign media, nobody cares.

Many countries are starting to do exactly what we have been doing from the beginning so the need for lockdown also needs to be justified.

I'm not saying everyone else is wrong, I'm saying there is a lot of leaders who needs to justify their, sometimes rash, decisions, including ours. And everyone knows there is nothing that makes you feel better then point and laughing at the kid that is different and wishing him dead.
>>
No. 42163
>>42138
You wont be able to travel abroad as everyone knows how retarded your government is handling the current situation.
>>
No. 42164
>>42163
That is just the point. You don't know because all you hear is how scary Sweden is and people are dying there and you should count your self lucky to be locked up in your home for months.

> retarded
Why employ experts in their field if you are not going to listen to them. So eat your Chloroquine and wear your face mask.

But yes, we are probably not going to be able to go abroad for a while but since the recommendation is not to do that anyway the difference will be small for the time being. Danes will be able to keep away because they don't like us but Norwegians will have a hard time, specially when their economy is not good. But then again the NOK might be worth less making what they save on going across the border negligible.

The fun thing is everyone complains about their government being idiots, but now suddenly they are all making the right decisions. And I can say this, I support the government making decisions based on what the expert says and not making shit up, because I can only imagine what horrible retarededness that would come out if it were a political process. The experts at least have the balls to say that they don't know everything and can admit that in hindsight they could have done better.
>>
No. 42180
>>42164
I am just interpreting the numbers and I think a 10% death rate is 9% too high. I mean Sweden is better off then the USA but then again it's still a bad ratio
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No. 42183
88 kB, 709 × 1024
>>42158
>>42164
Honestly and I can't believe I'm saying this but I've truly come to believe government is necessary and that having a larger government role in our affairs is a good thing and that privatization and unchecked Capitalism clearly is an abysmal failure of an ideology. I've come to appreciate the fact that almost all of the really cool shit that we have and did as a Nation came about through government programs. I was just watching some talking head calling himself an American exceptionalist while bitching about Trump and the guy listed all these amazing things like NASA and the internet America did and he ended it with Steve Jobs inventing the iPhone and God did I cringe hard at that. Like what the fuck, three solid decades and the greatest innovation the guy could come up with was the fucking iPhone? And that was corporate America's greatest contribution to the zeitgeist? It's fucking pathetic. It's fucking pathetic and it is embarrassing.

I think that all our suspicion of government while justified also happens at least in my country so much more because government literally doesn't work for the common good, but only the fat cats, with us being a total afterthought if we're considered at all. So it's not that government is bad, just that our government is shit and it is shit because the oligarchs have been gutting us for decades until it's nothing left but a corrupt hollowed out shell of its former self betraying the same fact about our nation.

Perhaps you too as a Swede can empathize with that feel but maybe it's also a generational thing. Each day I find boomers more incredible for their selfish stupidity, and my generation and the next is often little different. I mean ignorant as shit people. I was talking to a guy who was pretty well spoken but he said he just found out about the Spanish flu recently and said it was in the 1980s. Black dude about my age who was talking about how he didnt think he'd ever see the day when churches got closed, who was one of the more logical and sane people with whom I've spoken lately. Speaking of which even our churches have gotten to feeling like hollowed out plastic parodies of their former selves. I feel like I am becoming a National Realist, and what we truly need is a functional society that cannot exist under present circumstances without serious hard fought reforms.

>>42164
You know you keep talking about all this and maybe it's just poor phrasing but it's almost like you totally lack the self awareness to realize people are pointing their finger and laughing not because you're different or being "the weird kid" but because your actions are fucking retarded. There is a critical difference here. It is also why people are horrified laughing in shock at some of these countries and it is precisely because of all the stupid shit they did and said as gaggles of incompetent leaders. Your case may be different because you're a Swede and probably more used to the nuChan fagtard cancer that started laughing at Sweden because Blanda Upp and YES memery rather than what I still always have thought of Sweden as which is one of the last actually free countries in the world, and a country so free it got seats for a Piraten Partei and hosting for Pirate Bay. So to that I say ignore these fucking retards because they are boomers, children, Fox "news" tards and other such filth who were cheering on the end of things like Net Neutrality and are probably only moments away from coming up with some new slogan to attack the video game industry and Dungeons and Dragons as something they deem offensive. Fuck em.

But as to the meat of your actual argument, your problem was that you went ahead with going full "I'm not retarded just Norwegian" level of shortbus logic, which as you full well know Boris and the UK get a thorough mocking for their >HERDIMMUNITY antics until backing down from that unbelievably fucking stupid idea. That is the kind of thing for which any nation deserves being mocked, and which you can plainly see in this ITT thread is what's happening to multiple countries.

Right now the star of the special needs show though is probably the drama in Brazil. That retard just sacked his third health minister and is still fighting with his governors because he's trying to ensure maximum pestilence exposure for some reason. I think it is clear the difference between effectual government and competent administration, and wildly dysfunctional government, and worthless alleged "leaders" sacrificing us all to Moloch for shekels, and the latter two deserve the international mockery.
>>
No. 42184
>>42180
The thing that everybody right now isn't listening to is, that the disease is actually pretty easily manageable and these are probably all people who havent been paying attention for long. If you had been, you would have realized long ago like back towards the end of Fenruary when things took off in Italy that what they were saying was most people could be kept from dying with treatment. That was literally the entire point to flattening the curve, which was because death rates rose dramatically immediately after the system got clogged. With proper ventilation and even ECMOs they could probably treat you from dying unless you were one of those really unlucky ones who just nosedived fast and couldn't recover. If you were not those people (and those are mostly all the ones who've been dying which I think is now something like 95,000 dead Americans) then they could probably save your life and you would recover after awhile.

BUT if you lost your critical care capacity, then all those people which couldve been saved are now dying due to lack of care. So yes if surge capacity is totally exceeded and we completely ran out of things like ventilators you would probably start to see something like anywhere between 3% and 10% mortality rates.

The other spooky thing is, that not only to use the war metaphor are we having much larger non-fatal casualties who are damaged or disabled, but that it just keeps getting found out to be doing some really spooky shit. Like one 41 year old actor just lost his legs because of this since apparently it causes blood clots in younger patients and they had to amputate his limb. I actually need to call a relative about this who might have a bloodclot. So, yeah, 1% deaths is still a big deal for modern society, but losing your arm or leg and being "recovered" isn't exactly harmless sounding now is it?
>>
No. 42185
>>42182
> retarded
It isn't retarded. That is the point. But you only get the light version filtered through translation and lack of willingness to understand and the need to have headlines that is catchy. And yes, in that light it is stupid, everything is.

It is like trying to understand the way US handles healthcare. Like if you have an heart attack and get sent to hospital you need to make sure the ambulance takes you to the right one or else they will more or less throw you out and if you get sedated you can wake up to a bill of tens of thousands of dollars.
It sounds retarded but once you understand that all is paid for by insurance it make sense.
Your insurance company has to have a deal with the hospital and the nurse handling anesthesia might not be employed by the hospital and therefor has to bill you separately. So you see it looks retarded at first but once you begin to understand the system, little by little it make sense.

The strategy works. The only major flaw in it was the assumption that local politicians and local administration actually did the minimum they were required to do. And because they don't people died. So instead of panicking they started to fix that. Yes, it isn't easy.

But that said it is easier to watch in horror so pleas go a head, I'm not going to change your mind as much as you are going to change mine. So far the main part of it has worked.
>>
No. 42186
>>42185
Nevemind what I said. Numbers are just in. We are number one!!!!

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-daily-deaths-trajectory-per-million?time=..

And all thanks to our obsession of tracking down every single death.

Pleas don't come here. You will die.
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No. 42192
446 kB, 2048 × 1024
69 kB, 688 × 807
>>42185
>tries using american health care as an example of something that looks retarded but isn't
No, no it definitely is genuinely fucking retarded and you're doing your own argument a lot of good with that example lad.
>American healthcare isn't retarded it's only pretending
I mean holy shit. We definitely have one of the worst, stupidest systems out there that primarily exists for the same reason as anything else does which is why we have poorer outcomes despite having the most expensive system.

Well, at least we're still better than Latvia.
>>
No. 42193
>>42185
I think the biggest economy (not per capita) in the world can do better, but who am I to judge living in socialist hell called Germany ...
>>
No. 42197 Kontra
>>42185
Oh yeah and I should add because clearly you've been talking to morons about this, that insurance only foots a part of the bill if they do so at all. That was what "preexisting conditions" was all about because insurance companies were trying to outright kick people off plans for their health problems or refusing to cover them. There's also something called a copay even if you have a nice plan that does cover most things I should also add the only reason I have a decent medicaid plan is a combination of Obama and the fact that I had an emergency issue where some guy helped me get a great plan under medicaid because basically he used to work for the insurance companies and got butthurt at them and switched careers into trying to help everyone get on healthcare rather than kicking them off it as some kind of hospital employee. To this day I have no idea how he managed to work it but before that I had no health coverage. so who gives a fuck if the insurance plan covers $160,000 if you still get shafted with a $40,000 bill? In short no American healthcare has been a privatized disaster for years and years now and I can easily imagine what kind of total moron you probably naively listened to trying to sell you that bullshit that system works because of insurance. It doesn't. It adds an added layer of corporate bullshit on top of it with two private interests punting your healthcare. All our hospitals should be nationalized.
>>
No. 42199
>>42192
The first pic bothers me. The worst-best scale looks kinda weird. I assume that each dot represents a country. If that is true, then being in top 36 is a pretty damn good result, considering that there are about two hundred countries in the world now. Also, "Lativa"? Fuck you, Pidorson center on healthcare, don't misspell our neighbours!
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No. 42202
544 kB, 990 × 556
>>42199
Ye, I also don't think Latvia really even close to "worst" healthcare. It's european country after all, and far from worst european countries. I know that pic was made for people that don't know where it is even but still
>>
No. 42205 Kontra
>>42199
What about "Japon"? Somehow I doubt that this chart means anything at all.
>>
No. 42206 Kontra
>>42197
So in short. Is one system retarded or both or none? Says who?
>>
No. 42207
>>42205
I'm googled and it's on french
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japon
>>
No. 42217
>>42199
That's worst out of whatever number not best m8
https://www.newsweek.com/united-states-health-care-rated-worst-637114
We consistently rank as underperforming globally and particularly among Schengen type countries as being one of the absolute worst while also being one of the most expensive.

Honestly the fact that Biden was selected by the corporations tells you everything you need to know about the situation, because only billionaires really matter in this system. Just to run in a local race at state level the registration fee alone is $10,000. All the corporations decide who gets to run and clearly they picked the guy they thought would give them the most money last time which I remind you pharmaceutical industries are a bigger share of GDP than oil and the oil industry pushes us into entire wars. I mention this because I find it incredible that basically Sen. Sanders' key issue, health care, should have been in a pandemic coupled with his other issues of economy right now an absolute landslide. The reason we have two doddering old fools is because they're the shinebox for the corporations who extract unfathomable amounts of wealth out of its citizenry and people around the globe. It's a shit system and utterly corrupt and it will literall never change from the inside.
>>
No. 42219
>>42093
>"Ah there's the zoom in towards the car logo"
>"The viewer demographic must be aging with the show, so they are now introducing topics like marriage and childbirth"
etc. and you can't enjoy anything after a point with every itty bitty thing trying to sneak something past you
And this is the essential summary on PR: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
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No. 42220
62 kB, 1024 × 576
>>42104
>Hey I'm not really fat for the most part. As for your specific mention of planes how exactly is a flying drone supposed to monitor people boarding a flight indoors?
Not a drone... I mean you could have a drone but it would make everything exponentially more complicated for zero benefit. Think of something like these facial rec boarding machines... pic related, with an extra thermal camera

>Personally I really don't even see fever detection as much of any use. What you have to do is get people feeling sick to stay home
Well as noted this for idiot-proofing for a small part, and for the larger part ASSURING everyone else that the place has been idiot proofed so they'll go out and buy stuff or do their jobs.

Say, you want to order food from a restaurant [I don't] but maybe their boss is telling those minimum wage mexicans with no healthcare who live in a small flat with 12 people "anyone who misses work will be fired" so they come in to work with a fever out of desperation? If only there was a somewhat verifiable system to assure you they weren't this stupid, and maybe you would go back to eating burritos and paying sales tax?

A large part of this is social rather than technical.

>I strongly resent them trying to force a cashless society on us.
Bit of an aside but I'm convinced inconvenience destroyed cash. Paying visa/mastercard the toll and not dealing with anything else is such an easy thing for a company. The tracking is cherry on top.
>You live near/in London so of course these issues wouldnt occur to/bother you
The British CCTV life has become a meme and taken a life of its own. There is more OVERT policing here but in fatistan the shit they get away with covertly is astounding, and mind you I've lived the better part of the past... half decade in murka.

>I have got to figure out a way to stay home more often from my retarded in the pandemic job.
A few of my employees on the other hand are saying they're bored at home and want to go back to the office. Most are 20-somethings so I said go if you want to.
>>
No. 42222
>>42217
The article clearly says "among high-income nations", and the countries compared are Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, UK and US, so it's definitely not a "whatever" number. Now, I won't dispute the point that the American healthcare is ridiculously expensive (because it's likely true), but it's not "the worst" by any metric. There are many countries that are much worse, majority of them, in fact. Also, nationalizing isn't necessarily the panacea (heh): we have nationalized healthcare in here, and guess what, it still sucks. But hey, it's free (kinda; they still manage to charge money for a lot of their services), so I shouldn't complain about it, right?
>>
No. 42230
>>42222
I just watched some interviews on the porn industry and even with them trying to give it a positive spin I've grown to despise Capitalism and that only fuels it. I'm not going to argue that Eastern Europe is pretty broken in general but I just kept imaging what this country would be like either in collapse or getting hit by a major disaster like pandemics and my calculations were not even remotely off for the most part. Our system is a disaster even at its peak of influence and wealth. Maybe not literally favelado but still. Well actually you know what Brazil is a disaster area now and Russia is probably not far off so the fact we are grouped in with Russia and Brazil with the pandemic is I think saying something crucial about the absolute state of America.
>>
No. 42232 Kontra
>>42222
Tbh, the problem is that burgers seem to think everyone else's state is benevolent, or just self-interested instead of the same corporate run show with better PR. In Australia what's covered in healthcare is pretty political. You have the basics to shut people up, and you can shit out kids for free because that's the corporationgovernment of Australia's future income stream. Want to get your teeth fixed though? Fuck you. Got mental health issues? Fuck you. Anything that isn't covered under basic healthcare is decided entirely by whether it serves the interest of the state. And hell, since that basic healthcare costs nothing, the place is always packed, and conditions are pretty mediocre. If you've got something serious, you're far better off paying for private because you'll get seen in a reasonable amount of time and will have conditions that aren't the bare minimum.

I also roll my eyes a bit when they talk about billionaires running the show as though it's something unique to the America.
>>
No. 42238
>>42222
>we have nationalized healthcare in here, and guess what, it still sucks.

Don't want to sound rude, but your country is barely a developed country and so is your healthcare
>>
No. 42239
>>42238
Well, it's "barely developed" because soviet union. Soviet union was state where everything was owned by state, and this state had a lot of resources. From this, you can quess what priorities state had.

And well, don't say like Belarus is some central africa.
>>
No. 42246
>>42238
True, and the nationalized healthcare (or just nationalized anything) would probably have more chances to work properly in first world countries than here, but there is still no guarantee that it will work as intended. And if the healthcare sector manages to escape some problems by becoming state-owned, there are other new problems that can arise, like corruption, bureaucracy or just simple underfunding.
>>
No. 42261
>>42246
That's why I wouldn't compare your nationalized healthcare with the systems in Germany etc. The only country who is to blame for having a ridiculous health care system is the USA, because they are rich and could easily afford public healthcare like the rest of 'us'.

>>42239

I feel sorry for everybody living outside the west. Belarus is not an African country, but for Western European standards it is.
>>
No. 42262
>>42261
>I feel sorry for everybody living outside the west. Belarus is not an African country, but for Western European standards it is.
There still big difference between africa and eastern europe. I'd also wanted live in west of cource and without doubt leave russia. But I don't think any of us even remotly want to live in africa, middle east or something like that. Being between 2nd and 3rd world still hell of a lot better than be in 4th one.
>>
No. 42263
>>42246
>corruption, bureaucracy
But we already have these
>underfunding
We have the opposite of this because see point one. Like it wouldnt even surprise me if trannyism in America is somehow tied to the corruption of the pharmaceutical industries and healthcare, which is why so many innocent children got put on powerful, cocaine and meth tier drugs or thorazine tier drugs since childhood, and that hormones are now becoming the new It thing. Plus see my earlier points about how we've got this bloated "industry" that charges out the ass but with worse outcomes than pretty much any developed country. So instead we've got a bloated corrupt bureaucratic clusterfuck that costs us out the ass and speaking of which healthcare and prisons are two things that shouldn't even be fucking "industries" to begin with.
>>
No. 42292
If anyone likes numbers here is some official statistics. Unfortunately in Swedish, how surprising.

https://socialstyrelsen.se/statistik-och-data/statistik/statistik-om-covid-19/statistik-relaterad-till-covid-19/#lightbox-block

As you can see by the "Antal dödsfall per vecka 2015–2020"
Number of deaths per week 2015-2020, Sweden hasn't cared about people dying in years. This year we totally tried to kill more but although the number went up it looks like our plan is failing.
>>
No. 42516
I really don't understand why the memeworthiest event of the century has produced such paltry offerings like toilet paper and drinking bleach so here's an Indian monkey stealing coronavirus positive blood samples
https://www.livescience.com/amp/monkey-steals-covid-19-blood-samples.html
>>
No. 42525 Kontra
>>42516
Oh ffs, Britain, PLEASE get your ass back to India, so they can achieve at least a modicum of competency.
>>
No. 42529
>>42516
Imagine the virus evolving to super corona because of this monkey
>>
No. 42531
>>42529
At this rate it would become super corona either because of Brazil or America, both of which have our own coronavirus reservoirs in bats along with Africa.
>>
No. 42568 Kontra
>>42531
>Brazil or America

Constant source of amusement, honestly :-DDD
>>
No. 42587
Sweden is dangerous says Danish government.
Danes in Copenhagen goes to Sweden anyway.

"It is all politics. The rate of infection is lower in Scania then it is in Copenhagen."

Sorry about the link in Swedish but it is the source. Pleas use your preferred method of language scrambler.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/skane/danska-turister-rads-inte-skane-det-ar-bara-politik

At least some Danes knows how to read numbers. Unlike say journalists. Fucking hell I'm tired of seeing X numbers of dead in corona. It isn't X number died of corona. It is X number that tested positive and died. In theory if you got killed in a gang shootout and was infected you would end up in the statistics. I can understand foreign journalists looking for click bait using a liberal interpretation but our own fucking journalist should at least point it out. Things aren't good but it isn't the horrible holocaust some media like you to believe. If it was it would show up in the statistics, it doesn't. Inb4 hurr durr conspiracy.
>>
No. 42610
>>42568
>Constant source of amusement, honestly :-DDD

This. So much. Maybe India will also join the club of amusement by constant neoliberal failure bringing nations.