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No. 4624 Systemkontra
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Also computer hardware and a little bit programming.

There we disscusing videogames, videogames companies, share gaming news, additionally disscus PC and console hardwarem share news about other software.
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No. 4626
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The only game I still enjoy playing is Darkest Hour.
It also has a pretty fleshed out Fallout mod. That shit is mint.
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No. 4628
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>>4626
Year ago I tried to create Japanese AAR in HoI 3 with Black Ice. It was kinda fun to create original content but it was so difficult to manually manage hundreds of divisions and write huge messages every time something happened.
I felt incredible pain in my ass because of the two hundred thousand Chinese Communists that hid in the fortified capital of the People's Republic of China surrounded by rivers, the fortifications were repaired faster than my aviation destroyed them and I didn't have heavy tanks and artillery that would be able to inflict at least some damage. I couldn't deprive them of their supplies either because every capital is acting as a supply depot and they had 10 factories producing supplies and enough resources to sit there for centuries. So in the end I just used my early save and quickly captured the capital before the Chinese could concentrate their forces in the city.
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No. 4629
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>>4628
I dropped the game after I conquered China on September 13, 1940. Someday I will return and continue the play.
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No. 4631
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>>4628
Initially I wanted to land my marines in southern Guangxi Clique, the heavily industrialised Chinese mountain state, but it turned out that I then I wouldn't have enough soldiers to hold the overstretched front line in the North, so I decided that it would be safer to push from North-East.
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No. 4636
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>>4628
I've also been doing some Pacific War gaming with a new campaign in War in the Pacific AE but it doesn't run properly on my laptop so I'm going to have to put it on hold until I get a new PC at some time in the future. Black Ice is fine, but I prefer more traditional wargames. The HoI system is fun for a sit down session but it's pretty gamey if I'm wanting something a bit crunchier. Gary Grigsby games especially can be a bit on the 'lots of chits' side of the spectrum :-D Actually pretty manageable though, they've designed it well

Pic is how the scale of the Eastern Front is represented in War in the East, I think they did an incredible job. It's a game you might enjoy a lot if you like that theatre.
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No. 4640
>>4631
>>4629
I try staving off the China invasion a bit so I can properly equip and train my troops because the state you get control of the IJA in is abysmal. Tanks and armoured cars are a must.
And in DH it doesn't matter when you invade China.
In one campaign (Played from 1933)I went after the soviets in that 1938 border incident and waged a bloody war 'till 1941-42.
By that point you'd think they would have had built a capable, fuckhuge army that can end the little Japanese sandpit I've built, but no. The Chinese AI is only instructed to make militia and basic infantry with some cavalry thrown into the mix.
So in '42 I kick down the door an Chang-Kai Shek and they have +300 divisions while I only have 80 (With 12 Armour divisions). And they can't do anything because they have those shitty irregular units that can't hold the ground for shit. And the non-shit units of their don't get reinforced because their limited IC is spent on reinforcing the "Peasants with guns" divisions that can't do jack shit against even the worst Japanese troops.

How is it in HoI3?
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No. 4641
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>>4640
It's still lousy. HoI3 is worse, Black Ice gives harsher penalties to obstacles than the base game so attacking across a river is incredibly difficult even if the other side is peasants with guns. A machine gun nest is a machine gun nest after all.

One of the funnest things I've done in Darkest Hour was winning WWI as the Austro-Hungarian Empire, helping Germany Annex the Soviet Union, getting nothing from it personally, getting butthurt and initiating WWII: The War of German Autism which I won in the end, making Germany into what in real life was the Soviet Union and a Unified Germano-Pannonian Reich stretching from Denmark to Kuwait. Pretty ebin, but DH doesn't like you doing off the wall stuff like that and just got weird and unfun.
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No. 4642
>>4641
I've only played A-H in Kaiserreich, where I reformed the central government and decided to initiate my own war against the Commune of France. The plan was that I'd blitz through Italy and then I'd teleport behind the French defences in the south.
Now I beat the Italians no problem, but the French stopped me the moment I stepped on their territory. Level 4-5 forts in Turin and Nice. I spent a year or two fighting, and finally broke through. Then I noticed that because I used WWI strategies (Just attack again lmao) I ran out of manpower completely. So they promptly fucked me sideways.
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No. 4645
Please exfoliate your onions on this thing I found on /v/:
https://pastebin.com/XAErF4dv
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No. 4646
>>4640
It's better to attack China in early 1937, so you can mobilize your economy and build more shit. Chinese have 3-4 million troops versus your 700 000 thousands of which 200 000 are shitty cavalry and garrisons. The only way to defeat China is the encirclement of their forces and seizure of coastal cities with industry.
The USSR is acting like an end game boss. At the beginning of the game they have the most soldiers, tanks and fairly large industry, making it a suicide to attack the union without help from Germany. Honestly I think that it wouldn't be possible to take over the USSR in Black Ice 1 vs 1 before 1948 for anyone other than Germany.
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No. 4647
>>4645
>it shit to work in giant companies and you are basicly slave
What a news. Hovever, you may describe what it is in short?
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No. 4648
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>>4646
The problem with the USSR is that they are a cross-breed. They have the USA's industrial capacity with China's Manpower.
I took out most of their troops this way in the far east, and we were even, but they bounced back even after I seemingly "destroyed" the majority of their forces. And as I said, China isn't a problem really because of the AI's build order quirks. The USSR is only getting more and more powerful as time goes on.
You can also "upgrade" those garrisons and equip the cavalry with armour companies to supplement your lacking motorized army.
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No. 4649
>>4647
>>it shit to work in giant companies and you are basicly slave
Wut? I thought giant companies like EA or Ubisoft had the best conditions and benefits for their workers.
> you may describe what it is in short?
Sure, this is a compilation of tweets about working in a "self organized" company from this guy: https://twitter.com/richgel999
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No. 4655
>>4649
Well, you should know where you go to work. Self organized mean that there no organisation and each employee need to organise himself?
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No. 4656
>>4649
>Surf on the web and post about it on twitter the whole work day
>Complain
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No. 4658
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We're gonna need a bigger trenchworks.

WWI is almost relaxing in hex form. It's a nice change to have an enemy evaporate on heavily fortified trenchworks and blasting them to bits with fortress artillery instead of the usual war of movement.
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No. 4661
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>>4648
>The USSR is only getting more and more powerful as time goes on.

You've won m8. Just send a couple Mot thrusting NW into Omsk, Novosibirsk etc. with various assorted units following behind (we're talking 1 or 2 separate Mot running all over the place). Ultimate goal is to entirely cut off the RFE but as soon as the trans-Siberian railway is captured Soviet supplies and reinforcements slow to a perfectly manageable trickle.

What you've forgotten is that the USSR might have good IC and manpower but they have absolutely Africa-tier infrastructure.
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No. 4662
>>4661
Yes. And with that IC they can bounce back multiple times. I've made numerous 10-20 stack encirclements, but they always managed to increase their division numbers and almost constantly outnumbered me.
And the Africa tier infrastructure is a double edged sword because I have to supply my own army too through Siberia as I march over the Urals.
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No. 4667
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>>4662
>And the Africa tier infrastructure is a double edged sword because I have to supply my own army too through Siberia as I march over the Urals.

You're forgetting that all of your units are deployed on the front while Soviet units are doing strategic deployments from European Russia to locations that may already be Japanese by the time they arrive. Just give it another week or so, there always comes a point in the invasion of Russia where they send what looks like a doomstack only for it to melt away because of no org or supply.
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No. 4668
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>>4667
I won that war, so I don't know what are we arguing about. I'm just saying that even if you destroy a considerable amount of soviet divisions they'll probably be able to make up for the losses twofold.
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No. 4669
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I can't keep on getting gains in CSGO. I am feeling like am bashing my head to the wall. It usually looks like this, I come back from a break from it. I fire up in the following week. Then for up to three weeks I can feel major improvement on my game, and then after that the confidence I gain turns back to me and makes me play the usual back. It is a very infuriating feel to feel, especially that I've been playing top underdogs level in a different video game. Also was really fast to catch up to something considered an entry high-level of play in any title I played except moba games.

I'm so mad and I need a good read on psychology of sportsmen to keep on going. Figuring out my sleep and living by the schedule and complete banishment of drugs had worked for the most part, Atleast when I play something I consider to be mediocre it's actually just enough to play the higher level pugs.

I know I have it in me but I feel like im catching only a glimpse of what I could be.

Here have a nice quake poster, sorry for ranting.
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No. 4687
>>4669
I played a lot CS1.6 but mostly Source with my friend. He become a true master just because played it a lot casualy, like I do but he played it much more. At the end, on different servers he can kill even whole porfessional clan that training and against him with only scout/knife. He played scout and knife and sometimes glock or TMP just because other weapons become too easy to kill and not enteresting.
He never tried himself as professional cybersportsmen" because he hought whole idea of cybersport is cringey and dropped because was bored of it game

CSGO is absolute cancer, source with terrible shooting and movment, nobody liked it on start. But then valve introduced gambling and all that crap, skines and updates for cash and boxes and all that cards and forced all tournaments on this shit and everybody started playing it. Even chienese/korean counter strike online was more fun, at least in 2009/10 than CSGO.
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No. 4688
>>4669
What's your rank?
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No. 4694
>>4669
try Aim-Maps and only dm. I play on the dm-server of shox. most of the guys have high skill, but thats is inportant in order to gain more skill. but it is frustrating some times.
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No. 4695
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That breakthrough feel. Feels good man. It's kind of funny how much better WWI goes when you don't initiate Plan XVII and just let Jerry grind himself to paste on your trenchworks while getting misted by your fortress artillery of the 140mm variety :-DD
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No. 4701
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Remember Bully? Back in the day my friend found the weirdest glitch I've ever seen in this game. As far as I can tell nobody else but us knows about this.

Go into the comic shop and throw marbles at the proprietor and the same time engage him in dialogue. If you do it right he'll fall over mid-conversation. Afterwards, the AI throughout the game will go completely mad. Policemen will arrest eachother, cars will crash into eachother, characters will start huge brawls, teachers will run out of the school and steal cars. Basically anarchy will ensue. I'd love to know how throwing marbles at one guy breaks the entire game.
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No. 4702
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>>4695
Very fun scenario. Ended up winning but ran out of turns before I could secure a major victory. Still, even if I had gotten a major victory, I feel that the victory screen is pretty optimistic about a single 1914 Entente breakthrough, even one as major as mine, but that's inconsequential.

Rate.
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No. 4703
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>>4702
But you got the bad ending...
I've never played the Entente in a WW1 scenario before
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No. 4704
>>4703
The designer wrote in the description that Entente was the harder version. The problem was that the PO was nowhere near aggressive enough. I was able to use the early war screening forces to tie up the initial thrust into the Ardennes. Between having to mop up light cavalry and the crap terrain, by the time they reached my lines, the Belgians were dug in and the bridges had been blown with reserve forces dug in on the other side. Then Germans just kept losing men to the Eastern Front and I was able to grind out wins in the south, especially in Alsace which ended up causing panicked redeployment of reserves to the south instead of where my real force concentration was around Metz. A breakthrough at Nancy and grinding through an encirclement of Metz sealed the deal as I started rolling down the front north and south slowly but surely and diverting reserve divisions into holding trenchworks so that I could send regular corps into exploiting the gap like I did there with marching on Frankfurt and Trier.
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No. 4706
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>>4704
If you want to talk in game design terms, then the Central powers in should be able to overpower the Entente in the early stages of the war, but as time goes on, the Entente's upper hand on the sea, and in the colonies, and resources should become apparent and by 1917 they should overpower the Central Powers in every regard thanks to those macro level superiorities.
If you are playing as the Entente of course. If you are playing as Germany, (or A-H if you are a masochist) then you can avoid a lot of the problems simply because you essentially see into the future. (But only of course if you are in complete control, as in Strategically and Tactically too)

Did it feel like a slog though? Most WW1 combat simulations just turn into "WW2 but no tanks".
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No. 4710
>>4706
No. WWI tactics just require very different thinking to many other eras. You need to think in sectors and not in units. When I advanced, it was a matter of changing the shape of my line, not a matter of moving units. Concentrating an ungodly amount of artillery on one location and busting a hole to expand is the first part of an attack, but the exploitation is about positioning. Using the terrain you've gained access control of to force the enemy army into action because if they take action it's likely to benefit you. Dug in troops are hard to dig out and if they retreat from the flanking maneuver then you've gained a few miles without needing to send troops into the meat grinder. It's also knowing when not to advance. There were opportunities in the mountains of Lorraine to advance into Germany towards Saarburg but they would have meant that the leading elements were facing attack from multiple directions. It was the wisest choice to just give up the admittedly good ground for the sake of maintaining the integrity of the sector. I quite like the different way of looking at problems that it forces upon you. It's certainly a very different prospect to WWII without tanks.
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No. 4711
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I'm going to give this dungeon another try.
Last time it hung on luck, but now I've trained my (wo)men and I've brought L-O-N-G-B-O-W-S with me so I might be able to pull this off. If not, I'll just flee again.
For now it feels like there is basically no reason to travel anywhere from Köln. I went down the Rhein and the cities there are lacking. This one has a university and all the stuff I might need.
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No. 4737
>>4711
And I thought about playing some classic dungeon crawler that I not played properly. Maybe Dungeon Master?
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No. 4740
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Fuck, I tried Quake 2 Ground Zero. Play this instead of The Reconing. Reconing is very meh tier qulity, Xatrix still was very meh guys who did not far enough from shitty radneck rampage. New content of Reconing are retextured monster and avegere leveldesign with meh textures and very bad sece of difficulty that overall feels like some sort of not best fan modification.

I passed Ground Zero and Rogue entertaiment done very good - first unit is mines and this is how mines should looked like in Quake 2 (mines in original quake 2 is weakest part of game by leveldesign probably where you go forward in big brown corridor). This addon more hard than original game but someone actually playtested game and all new things looks creative but more in style of original quake 2 than anything reconing did.

Encounters are more tough than original, levels are more complex - but fuck how awesome this levels done. All that crystals, facility overall. In final level of unit 1 for example after you off some thing you run back from it and you need go back in 45 seconds or you blow up, but in process you can jumb in exploding pipe to secret level where you can found new weapon... but bcause all complex blowing up, you need to run fast because lava and blasts slovely destroying whole level and you need run forward and up or you be killed.

New enemies are more nice than SAME MONSTER MORE HP like in reconing, like this nasty guys who can walk on celling and emulate death, love their design. I like one of new weapons particulary - kinda remake of nailgun from quake 1, looks awesome.

Of cource it not perfect and sometimes you can tell difference between style of new content and original one, but overall I got so much more positive experience than in Reconing, and in some ways I think this game even better in vanilla Q2 - this is harder and some level elements done more complex. For classic FPS veteran it is more fun to play even on easy than Q2 on hard.

If you played Quake 2 and want more - go stright into Ground Zero.

Screenshots not mine because was too lazy to take them :/ But I playing on software mode of Yamagi sourceport same as original game and it is look better than on screens I posted.
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No. 4758
Blizzard-updates take forever and tell me there's not enough space on my HDD (There is), but it updates the game anyway weirdly enough.

Wat nou?
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No. 4759
>>4758
Delete and reinstall, that's what I'd do. And backup files, for sure.
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No. 4760
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>>4759
Well, I guess I was asking for an obvious answer, thanks :DDDD

Btw. any onions about Overwatch's new Wrecking-Ball?

I faced him with Orisa today. He seems to be too able to come very close with quite a lot of HP (Maybe my DDs have been shit idk). It's basically D.va in a non-shitty version, so I don't really understand this hero. Also his crit-hitbox is too small for so many HP with such mobility.
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No. 4764
>>4760
You post gived me true cancer
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No. 4765
>>4764
Not >>4760 but i'm still interested.
Why do you call everything cancer as if anyone is interested in your opinion?
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No. 4766
>>4765
Modern blizzard, such as their games, espassially ov*rwatch probably most cancerous game that exist at now, sadly. Terrible cartoon-anime Team Fortress 2 clone that aimed for asian market and lowest bydlo possible. I thought there no people on EC who playing things like that.
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No. 4767
>>4766
Tastes differ, i don't like Overwatch either but i don't feel the need to insult people who do.
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No. 4768
>>4767
This game is objectivly cancer, and you can't live always with premisis "I think it's shit but some other people like it so I will think it is okay" or something.
I not insulted him eather, I said about post and paticulary about game.
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No. 4771
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>>4768
>This game is objectivly cancer

Objectively bad is a game that doesn't work, otherwise it's a matter of taste.

>you can't live always with premisis "I think it's shit but some other people like it so I will think it is okay"

Why not? Want to force everyone to live by your standards of what's good and what's bad?
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No. 4772
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>>4771
>Objectively bad is a game that doesn't work, otherwise it's a matter of taste.

With such view on life, we can delete this thread, delete this board, delete all internet and civilisation basicly.
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No. 4778
>>4772
Different opinions lead to discussion and give threads reason to exist.
Your brain seems to be cabled wrong and you see things as the opposite.
Tell me, where is left and where is right?
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No. 4786
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>>4778
What you basicly proposing is opposite - it is absence of opinion. Not calling something shit or cancer just because there are people who like it - it is some sort of surreal world of absolute tolerancy where any kind of logic dropped in favor of "not offend anyone".

Same problem goes with "objective" view on games that compleatly out of context and described as "if game works or not works". With such view on any media nothing produced by giant corporations with using billions of dollars and marketing for wide audience "can't be bad".

Overwatch is pice of shit that absoluetly clear describing politics of current activision-blizzard. Since blizzard fails in late 00s of majority of their project everything they do - producing garbage tier media for retards that easy to make to make easy monies from them. Shitty warcraft movie, overshit, bad moba games, card games with shiny cartoonish art. This all cancer because it using name of old blizzard and their titles, because it is giant corporation who controls trillions of monies, because their "games" is fucking cancer, same as community. Do they did battle-royale already?
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No. 4787
>>4786
>What you basicly proposing is opposite - it is absence of opinion. Not calling something shit or cancer just because there are people who like it

I never said you aren't entitled to your own opinion but your own opinion can't be the measurment for objectivity and calling everything cancer without any reasoning isn't very productive and doesn't lead to any form of discussion.
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No. 4788
>>4786
Objective has a definition. What you're talking about is objectively subjective.
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No. 4793
>>4786
>Since blizzard fails in late 00s of majority of their project everything they do - producing garbage tier media for retards that easy to make to make easy monies from them
Would you want them make 12/10 game and go bankrupt because of poor sales?
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No. 4795
>>4788
Well, if objective - is to describe videogame only that "it is works" or "it is not works" and because "some people playing it" without any context and comparison, so actual words "objective" or "good/bad" means absoluetly nothing now and looks like we need new language to talk properly.

Overwatch is OBJECTIVELY only cashgrabber crap maded to earn easy monies on some anime lovers and kids
Overwatch is OBJECTIVELY poor multiplayer games without any new ideas
Blizzard is OBJECTIVLY now company that do dumb shit for dumb audience, with horrible policy on anything and basicly a stereotype of evil corporation at that point
They OBJECTIVELY spend not much manpower on making this game since a lot elements like engine was done way before and it actualy meant to be Starcraft shooter game.

>>4793
Who? Guys that now have absoluetly anything in common with old blizzard, just branch company of activision that use this name because big Boddy have rights on that name? This guys who do only shit and people who on official even showed screenshot of some mod as diablo 2 screenshot? Yes, I want they die as fast as possible to not asame this name anymore and to stop producing garbage media, we have enough information noise on this planet already.

>>4787
Well well, I think in case of overwatch everything OBJECTIVLY clear, maybe we need DISSCUTION about I don't know, clash of kings?
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No. 4796
>>4795
>Overwatch is OBJECTIVELY only cashgrabber crap

Every game that's more than just a hobby project is made to make money, that's how companies survive and even if this is objectively true and everything else is as well, it still doesn't say that everyone has to dislike it.

besides
>They OBJECTIVELY spend not much manpower on making this game since a lot elements like engine was done way before

What a stupid argument is this? What company makes a new engine from the ground up for every single new release?

>maybe we need DISSCUTION about I don't know, clash of kings?

Never played it.
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No. 4798
>>4795
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/subjective
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/objective

Also, quit acting like a cunt because the guy enjoys a game that you don't like. Nobody's gone mental about you liking a certain game here, so you can at least extend the same courtesy.
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No. 4803
>>4669
Man I kinda regret getting Insurgency which I think I only got as some drunk impulse buy awhile ago because Iraqi bernd was playing it. I'm not sure if I've ever even played CSGO. IIRC the servers were messed up or something. I don't even like FPS games. The last one I really liked was Day of Defeat. And a couple like FEAR and Singularity just because they were cool atmospheric games slightly closer to shooter horror. Yeah apparently I have more FPS than I thought and even half of them are actually installed, but even STALKER I haven't gotten around to playing much. I just don't like the genre at all. The closest thing to it is Crossout just because it's fun to design and build your own armored vehicle despite the grindfest, but then it is closer to world of tanks.

I would say something about Overwatch being great or Blizzard being an excellent company as low effort bait but I don't even feel like it.

Meanwhile 4x games are among my favorite. It's also one of the only ways I can start to fall asleep naturally by creating miniature scifi stories or vignettes on the way to loss of consciousness. Which makes me think, is there a market for that sort of thing? What if I actually bothered to try writing down some lore books based entirely on GalCiv or Endless Space? Is that how Star Wars EU became a thing?
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No. 4806
>>4796
>>4795
This sadly is the truth though. It isn't just Blizzard it's just that as a company Blizzard is one of the top three most cancerous. The problem is when things get taken over by all the kinds of faggots who care about shit like celebrity or marketing departments, all the kinds of things games used to not have the way they do now. You can tell for instance how while Mass Effect was nowhere near as good as KOTOR, it still was a Bioware game and still a decent if more casualized one. But then they go full on abomination in Mass Effect 2, as if anybody fucking cares they got some B grade actresses or actors I hadn't even heard of and made it look like the entire company budget was wasted doing blow with a few celebrities and shafted the actual coder with making a crap game. The same shit happened to Master of Orion. Complete YOBA tier trash cash grab based entirely on milking nostalgia for dollars, hiring a few known guys to do voice acting and leaving the game as a mess then having the audacity to charge extra for being able to play Trilarians, Gnolam, or Elerian, which is some temptation of the dark side I fear Amplitude falling towards where each race of a base game now becomes some $10 DLC each sold separately. You did not have these kinds of horse shit when gaming was good. And it was good, and now is bad, and just seeing Spore in OP's pic reminds me of this, how assholes and faggots who don't know what they're doing get put in charge of what should be art and technology and turn out the most horrible slop they possibly can.

I mean Overwatch really is a cash grab, but unfortunately so are most games now, and that leads to them mostly being utter garbage lacking in soul. The problem is, you can make a nice car or nice piece of furniture or some technical thing in a cash grab; you can NOT make narrative or art the same way. The complete lack of fun or depth in a game, a book, a movie, or a record unlike in a technical field becomes very painfully obvious to the consumer of that medium and this has always been the problem in places like Hollywood that are built more on advertising/marketing, social standing and personal favors than anything remotely to do with creating genuine art or theatre. In fact I think the last movie I even saw that was good was Interstellar. I can't even think of any other recent movie I even bothered to pirate, let alone be such a sap to waste my money in a theater which I haven't even gone to in like a decade.

Vidya suffers the same problems, except even movies can try to cover up how bad they are by having some good actor to distract you from the poor quality whereas vidya it just becomes obvious. It is like sharing a dream with someone who hates what they're doing and passive aggressively hates the dream world you're sharing and only isn't consciously making you die a death of tedium because he hopes to distract you just enough to steal your wallet before snapping the world shut.
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No. 4811
>>4806
>cancerous, soul etc.
In what unit are you measuring it? It can be a common opinion among a certain demographic of enthusiasts, but that doesn't make it an objective fact. Were it objective then there wouldn't be people who played and enjoyed those games and thought that they weren't bad. It's by definition a subjective matter and no amount of caps lock will change it.
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No. 4813
194 kB, 408 × 625
>>4806
>Complete YOBA tier trash cash grab based entirely on milking nostalgia for dollars
>I mean Overwatch really is a cash grab, but unfortunately so are most games now, and that leads to them mostly being utter garbage lacking in soul
These games aren't YOBA, but they are cash grabs based entirely on milking nostalgia for dollars.
I'd change most indies for more YOBAs everyday. At least corporations care to bring us best graphics.
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No. 4815
17 kB, 366 × 350
>>4796
>Every game that's more than just a hobby project is made to make money, that's how companies survive and even if this is objectively true and everything else is as well, it still doesn't say that everyone has to dislike it.

Most of project since the begining of videogame had some procent of actual commercial product. It is obvious that and Jon Van Canningem, and John Carmak/Romero, and Michael Kirkbride wanted from their projects monies too, however, some projects has no goals besides monies. If all what they wanted is ONLY monies, most times such project ended as absoluetly soules.. not game, not art - just product that you need to consume.

>What a stupid argument is this? What company makes a new engine from the ground up for every single new release?

It is means, that they spended minimal effort to make it, from technical perspective and same as with all other perspectives basicly. You know, after sucsess in 00s, blizzard start have problems. All their big, potentionally not bad project died - they invested 10 yeas and millions of dollars to MMO "Titan" that never seen release. Same as they did with metioned Starctaft Shooter. After it Bobby Kotick said that he wanted to radically terminate most part of blizzard. Since then and in many ways after Valve maded contract with creator of map on warcraft - DotA that even was not so greit thing and was basicly one mediacore cutom map but it did a lot money blizzard start making not new projects, but start doing short small easy games without anny atempt to make something good. They do CHEAP PRODUCT aimed for most wide and most degenerate audience - kids, degenerates, mobile players, moba trash. And they sucseeded. Their card game Hearthstone even thought technically this is absoluetly nothing and they spend like 10$ on shitty digital artist during development, did a lot popularity and monies. They continue do ther cancer servises, shitty addons and REMASTERS for old games, and other PRODUCTS that not ivolve a lot monies to develop. Overwatch - souless 100% commercial project aimed for dumb people, using shiny cartoon pictures and anime girls with asses, popular hipster shit etc.

>Never played it.
Most popular mobile shit that basicly absolute pay-to-win shit without any gameplay.

>>4798

>guy enjoys a game that you don't like

I don't wanted to go in any politics or anything like that, I absoluetly don't like it, but this is absoluetly SJW tier argument, if we even call this argument. If you have any point of view, and you not amorphic microcreature from ocean and you have actual brain, you can't be absoluetly torelatable to anything. And I said nothing about him personally, if you read all mine posts. All I say is about this concretical game and thier target audience. And this is thing that I can not fully tyolerate, because in my opinion garbage media like this is current main problem of mankind.

>>4811
Again, same stuff again. Objective fact there is this game aimed for degenerates and has no absolutley any goal in thier existance, besides earn monies from human trash it's tagtet audience - a weakness of majority of population of this planet that instead to change giant corporations using to control media and culture.

>>4813
Games that you listed probably just shit without anything "but...". But it is common knowlege that golden and even silver era of videogames ended many years ago for most times, and only decent things we have now are mostly from medium studios. But what you saying is just "let's gchange piss on poo". However I not saying that all big companies do are bad, because each rule have exeption and it all depends on actual goals and development team, same I can not say about indie, because indie and modding don't neccecery bad but often they maybe not brilliant, but decent thing. I actualy want in my dreams do games myself. Not for monies purpose, of cource, for the most part.

>>4803
>The last one I really liked was Day of Defeat
Day of Defeat nice thing, I liked it, but not played that much sadly, and most time played source. I think this game was from one side in shadow of Counter Strike and Half life, and from other side from battlefield 1942 and games like that.

>Is that how Star Wars EU became a thing?
Star Wars EU become a thing in times where NOBODY CARES about Star Wars and it was considered dead. Some authors, mostly known Tom Veich was around with his awesome ideas "how to make star wars actual universe". Nobody cared about that since all considered Star Wars meh in dead, but when rights on comics get Dark Horse and with work on Thrawn Trilogy, he get his chance. Then, after sucsess, Lucastarts start making new quality games such as X-Wing and TIE Fighter, more authors, more comic books... it become universe mostly for nerds who played PC games and read books.

>but even STALKER I haven't gotten around to playing much.
>don't even like FPS games.

Why? Maybe you just played them in wrong mood? FPS are very wide category with a lot games and a lot sub genres, a lot communities and modding.
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No. 4816
380 kB, 639 × 701
>>4806
>You can tell for instance how while Mass Effect was nowhere near as good as KOTOR, it still was a Bioware game and still a decent if more casualized one.
I may say that even KOTOR was near as god as this games counts and this games started many bad things, for SW universe and for compter RPG games too. However I may agree that besides the fact that Mass Effect was in many ways absolute YOBA that was aimed a lot for casual audience, it still had a nice amount of good features and things that you remember, so playing this I not consider as absolute waste of time. I for long time not played them however, I think it is time to revisit them, but from what I remember there was not that major difference between 1 and 2, but again, I need to replay.

>The problem is, you can make a nice car or nice piece of furniture or some technical thing in a cash grab; you can NOT make narrative or art the same way

Funny thing, but most times progress even in pure technology not go from pure capitalists and big companies, most times it military of socialistic states and enthusiasts. Big companies like to do a little bit small evolution just be a little bit better than concurents and nothing more. Nowdays we don't see supersonic jets as mass civil planes, same as we still using silicon computers that evolvinng slowely and slowely each year.

>In fact I think the last movie I even saw that was good was Interstellar.
I may say that Interstellar was absolute garbage with illogical plot, bad scenes and absoluetly unbellivable world, but they at least tried to do something besides marvel-tier. Actually all you know in comparison and I discovered why people like such trash as Fallout 4 - it is playable compare to sringy shit in form of modern call of dooty games PRESS F TO PRAY

>Vidya suffers the same problems, except even movies can try to cover up how bad they are by having some good actor to distract you from the poor quality whereas vidya it just becomes obvious.
Well no, nowdays games cover i as well. Companies have trillions of budget - they can make decent picture, good marketing and make it basicly playable, often cinema-tier music, sometimes good voice actors and designers some new techologies to facinate target audience, so most of people not noticed that what they playing is basicly absolute garbage.
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No. 4817
43 kB, 400 × 350
>>4815
>It is obvious that and Jon Van Canningem, and John Carmak/Romero

You can't compare a game made in the early 90s in someones basement by a hand full of people with a game where hundreds of people are involved.
If the first one doesn't sell it's bad but you can try again, if the second one doesn't sell you can close your company.

>It is means, that they spended minimal effort to make it

That's how you're supposed to do your work, it's called being cost effective.

>Most popular mobile shit that basicly absolute pay-to-win shit without any gameplay.

I know what it is but i never played it so even if i'm sure i wouldn't like it, how can i criticize it? I'm not IGN.

>absoluetly SJW tier argument

How?

>Objective fact there is this game aimed for degenerates and has no absolutley any goal in thier existance

Again, pic related. Seriously, that's you.

>Maybe you just played them in wrong mood?

STALKER is objectively a shit game, only retards without brain like it.

I stop arguing with you now if all you can do is repeating your "arguments" and use the word "objective" like you do.
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No. 4821
43 kB, 650 × 519
171 kB, 1217 × 694
>>4816
It seems more people are relentlessly butthurt at ME3 for some reason and for some bizarre reason many considered 2 "good" even on the KC but let me tell you, it is trash. It is the living embodiment of pic related, especially pic 1, so much so I almost think whoever originally made this pic specifically had Mass Effect 2 in mind, and the worst fucking part about that is ME1 was originally like a more YOBA version of KOTOR and somehow became this abortion of a shooter. Even the fucking health bar did this auto recharge thing. You see that corridor with cut scenes? That is literally the entire fucking game.

So no, ME2 is nothing like ME1. In fact I bet Mass Effect Andromeda was a better game than ME2, it was that bad. The biggest impediment to me playing again would be having to suffer through ME2 again just to get the save file and in fact getting the save file is the only reason I forced myself to finish it for 3. And yes it really was just as bad all the way to the ending. There was no saving grace or "worth it" end scene or battle. It was horrible. I cannot begin to describe it. In fact that reminds me I should express this on Steam since I often don't leave reviews for games I didn't like.

Meanwhile, ME3 tried to salvage a bunch of what was good from ME1. I personally liked it. I also played the series long after ME:A came out so feel pretty unbiased. I think EA did something that pissed people off and the end of 3 was worse before the extended cut update, but whatever ME3 was genuinely a good game imho. ME1, a bit casual, not as good as some previous Bioware stuff but still good. 2? Fucking horrible.

>>4815
I just don't like them. I like you am pretty much a complete elitist snob about everything but that also translates into my vidya. It was kind of fun thing when you're a teenager, maybe back when I really liked numetal kind of crap, metal, that kind of loud angry music while mindlessly shooting stuff crap that is just not my mindset at all. Plus a part of my since then kinda needed a reason to play, something beyond mindless entertainment where I am actively, consciously aware of the fact I am completely wasting my entire life. The only thing more capable of doing that than FPS is a platformer.

Gameplay is entirely built around a mechanic I just am not interested. It's entirely fast reaction and hand eye coordination which I don't feel particularly challenged or interested in.

Environments rarely ever have a good story. Like Singularity at least had an entertaining environment and set up. FEAR 2 is a very good example of a game where it was so bydlo at times it made me cringe, and only by otherwise being good in itself I could forget that but the ending was so horribly dumb it just ruined it for me.

Pretty much, I only gravitate towards things that require engagement of mind or S-O-U-L and shooters are least able to do that. Like even Dead Space, yeah okay very interesting environment and everything but I soon realized the thing it's completely centered around is what I hate about it, which is being an FPS as opposed to say horror survival. Like SOMA was a very interesting game. It was not just mindless shooting, which especially for Dead Space I felt more like I was battling the controls and view.

It simply is not a gameplay style I like at all and it requires immense amounts of being good elsewhere for me to enjoy. Otherwise it's mostly rpgs with some interesting story, or a kind of atmospheric game, or strategy, although I noticed when I was younger I loved RTS which was really just fast paced tactical gameplay so maybe it's also being older, with games like say XCOM 2, chess, or Endless Space or Master of Orion II where you have to think ahead.

Tbh, in games as IRL pretty much every stat but INT is a dump stat, except for CHA just because that's where you find the lore. FPS is like an entire genre built around STR + maybe DEX, and STR is my dump stat. DEX/AGility is only not a dump for action points and chance-to-hit rolls. I hope this last part says all needed to be said to explain myself.
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No. 4822
165 kB, 500 × 594
194 kB, 560 × 599
>>4811
S-O-U-L units can be measured in ability to make a psychopath tear up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWGkKN0VnkI
It is an ability to supercede our mortal coils, and to convey relevant bits of experience and information along those lines. While suffering is not the only one, it is the easiest, cheapest, and most accessible part of accessing and generating units of S-O-U-L. These are things that move us. These are also things that form a sense of connectedness in us, like the Force itself.

You will notice how things with high quantities of SOUL are remembered and talked about for a long time, transcending time and space itself. You will notice the inverse of that, which is cheap, shitty, marketable, plastic YOBA garbage shit for the bydlos, is like some retarded new fashion trend that all will forget about within an months. They are the anti-protons and anti-electrons to units of positive and negative SOUL, and do note that just as a harrowing experience and its retelling is a good measurement of SOUL, so too is the kind of lost joys of young love warmly remembered in the tears of an old man's eye. The anti-SOUL particle is the YOBA particle, this cheap consumerist shekel grubbing cash grab horse shit we all know and hate--it is, in essence, a measurement of banality.
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No. 4823
42 kB, 560 × 395
>>4817
Oh I see you have only one picture on your computer.

>You can't compare a game made in the early 90s in someones basement by a hand full of people with a game where hundreds of people are involved.

In late 90s early 00s companies start become something bigger than what you described. In many games was actually companies that involved many people inside them. And Canningem's New World Computing when it become part of 3DO since 1996, and id software and they was able to make big projects with top technology, bigger budgets and many content. However, they still had goal, they had their views and hopes, moderatable enough amounts of people and most times even main leaders of such companies was people who wanted to make actual games, to be proud of them, discover something new. And they still had target audience mostly of assburgers, nerds, artists and game programmers. This why I consider silver age of PC video games is the best, not only for videogames but as symbol of my hope in the mankind. And funny that it is may still be the same, if we still has no graphical operational systems on PC, microsoft did not their XBOX and... but history don't know word "if"

>That's how you're supposed to do your work, it's called being cost effective.

It is called cashgrabbing from dumb loosers. It is called exapluatation of weakness of society to personal benefit, and this personal benefit long time ago shifted from category of "personal". In current economy and society corporations are neccecery evil, but still, they are our enemies and I can't be tolerant with people, who support worst of them, more than that, consume their products, espessialy when corporation DID NOTHING to make some good product but instead belive that we will consume thier crap like all mankind is one giant a herd of ruminants.

>I know what it is but i never played it so even if i'm sure i wouldn't like it, how can i criticize it? I'm not IGN.

Your problem is that you thinking by not the bast cliches and rules. Like that picture your post or that "do not judge book by cover". It is funny that in begining both of this things was meant to actually BREAK STEREOTYPE, but instead created opposie one, even more strong. Our brain works operating groups of stereotype but you need to balance it. We can remember things so you can eat using every spoon in world, without learning ho to eat with every new one. You basicly can "judge book by cover" if you think you have enough iq and experience to understand what thing is, based on it's cover and target audience.

>How?
easelly, because it's meant nothing exept "if you not eat poo that we eat, it is not we pigs, but you have some problems with yourself". By that you can avoid any criticism, especially objective one and hide in blob of imagenary world.

>Again, pic related. Seriously, that's you.
No' it is picture you continue posting just because you think your stereotype is always valid argument. While I may say about a lot things that people can have different views and both objectivly right and disscution difference of such views create actual DISSCUTION, there everything more or less obvious and it creates mostly arguing.
By their production, style and marketing campain creators of this game more than obviously said on who their aim as target adience and for what they maded this game and how they maded this game. Again - absoluetly carbon pasted souless clap without any innovation, that involved minimum effort and considered as 100% product like junk food, aimed for wide audience who want low quality garbaje media based on mass "culture". Bad tf2 clone with HOT CHICKSSSS.
What I can say also about this company and thier audience? Recent news about blizzard often contents BIZZARD AGAINST CYBERBULLING AND NET HARRASMENT, FOR EVERY WORD THAT MAY BE CONSIDERED AS SOME SORT OF OFFENCE YOU WILL BE BANNED, and things even worse than that. It is sad how company that was baised on dark fantasy, steampunk and cyberpunk, interesting and sometimes innovative games with memorable art, music and gameplay become conveer belt of anime hug pillows for korean NEETs

>STALKER is objectively a shit game, only retards without brain like it.
Funny this kinda is, I may say that absoluetly objectivly original stalker is no more than 6,5/10. But I may say that this game was absoluetly not a PRODUCT since it was in development in 10 years or so, when devs was adreamers with a lot of different and awesome ideas that they wanted to show to world, and they was absoluetly terrible capitalists if we count that old GSC died in early 10s, ha-ha. But for every game I like even a little bit, but even I not like but think that objectivly this is not terrible, I may point to you whole giant reviews of all advantages of disadvantages, objective faults and subjective bonuses. If you want hear my full stalker review - only ask.

>I stop arguing with you now if all you can do is repeating your "arguments" and use the word "objective" like you do.
I don't want to offence anyone personally if you not rich and famous but most of your posts is just repeating of 2-3 same basic phrases that in your opinion making you fully objective person, when in reality you stucked in subjectivism of "be neutral". Maybe I go there too far in some kind of philosophy, but I may say that what we have now is some sory of disscution, where I happy to share all my thoughts not only on topic, but basicly my viewon world that I think maybe not objectivly perfect, but far better than view of my respectfull opponent.
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No. 4825
>>4823
>disagreement over liking a casual game turns into full on debate about ethics and philosophy
100% EC tier
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No. 4828
306 kB, 1280 × 853
>>4821
>Gameplay is entirely built around a mechanic I just am not interested. It's entirely fast reaction and hand eye coordination which I don't feel particularly challenged or interested in.

Classic FPS was in many ways a navigation+tactics. You need to remember all that labyrinths, find keys and pass beyound puzzles. Good classic FPS should offer good labyrinths with good lelvedesign and set of very distinctive monsters - each you need to memorise and have a tactic, and level should offer opportunity to show both strong and weak parts of this monster, in this regard I count Quake I as masterpice in that regard - of cource classic id games is just CORE GAMEPLAY WITHOUT ANYTHING, it is just engine and basicly levels with perfect gameplay and nothing moreyou need to know. However and doom and Quake offering a lot things if you interesting in programming, levledesign, games history and in many many ways also. Community of this games are still bigs, with a lot of mods that often go far beyond actual FPS. You may find yourself more interesting creating your own worlds and labyrinths in GZDooM builder or TrenchBroom.

But different classic FPS games count on differen things more or less. Hexen 1-2 have less variaty in enemies, but game build mostly about PUZZLES and classes you choosed in start of game, in Hexen 2 puzzles may be mindblowing sometimes :/

>Pretty much, I only gravitate towards things that require engagement of mind or S-O-U-L and shooters are least able to do that
Maan, but Stalker considered as one of the most soul games of all time. It may be not finished with a lot of bugs, unfinished content and sometimes bad gamedesign but by all slavic nations it is considered as concentration of soul. Basicly music there and atmosphere is soul essence by itslef.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDCNlqMgnvo
And funny thing that most strong parts of this game is not shooter, but locations, exploration, discovering hidden things, walking around in zone, hearing music, talking with stalker. All this things that made this game so popular there in first place even if this not objectivley good. And this game basicly on border of RPG genre. I remember how first time I found all Stashes in game, or found some content that was hlaf-cutted in game, or how I first time myself found two "secret engings" in "secret locations" by doing alternative mainquest.

>so much so I almost think whoever originally made this pic specifically had Mass Effect 2 in mind,
1993 example is E1M6: Central Processing from doom 1, 2nd was about YOBA games from it's time, something like call of dooty or bioshock infinite...

Did you tried Ultima Underworld 1-2, System shock 1-2, Thief (yet again) 1-2?
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No. 4830
>>4828
I know, I do not dispute soul of STALKER nor that Dead Space was good, I just realized I don't have a lot of fun playing it. Although, anything with bullet drop off and using ballistics is indeed noice. Dunno why, but I enjoy such things. It's the build I used through most of Crossout too, trying to accurately predict sometimes just by sight and intuition the trajectory of a shell.

>Did you tried Ultima Underworld 1-2,
No
>System shock 1-2,
Tried not long ago, but the combat is so ridiculously bad, graphics are bad basically I realized the single only reason I was playing was it was considered a "classic" and I wanted the story. But then I could just read instead.
>Thief (yet again) 1-2?
No. Maybe, late 90s or early 2000s was watching/playing it.

Or let me put it this way, I watched a playthrough of every single Dead Space game, only to realize later that I had way more fun actually watching someone play it than playing it myself. Maybe I will try again sometime, but I almost entirely like things such as either strategy games or rpgs and am fine with that. I enjoy thinking and reading. I don't enjoy shooting at things on PC so much. Shooting real bullets at things IRL is okay too I guess, not as great as playing a 4x game, but obliterating various objects with projectiles IRL is also a somewhat enjoyable passtime although frankly fires are more entertaining to watch. But in a game? Then, it is mostly the exploring and world and such. I even have all Stalker games I just lost interest partway through for some reason although I'll try finishing them eventually.
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No. 4832
775 kB, 1076 × 700
41 kB, 450 × 281
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129 kB, 1920 × 1080
>>4830
Ultima Underworld is actualy mother of ARPG and father of FPS games. By beta version of that game Carmak was inspired to make his simplified raycasting technology that evolved in wolfenstein 3d. Most technologically advanced game of it's time it may be not directly follow lore of ultima (in that time every ultima game had inconsistes basicly... actually every part of ultima had more of them than elder scrolls games) but it is truley follow meaning of ultima - not only by mantras, but with your relationship with actual world and understanding eveyone and their life, understanding complex ecosystem of world.
Like how important dialogues and relationships in that world - every person have it's conditions from very friendaly to upset and angry, often even hostle monsters may be not that hostel if you not do aggresive things about them - not steal their food or attack. How much days you spend in abyss, in what condition your food (fresh or not much), how you resolved puzzles - in many ways more important than things like combat.
On every floor of abyss there communities - different tribes of humans, goblins, dwarves, lizzards and even ghouls and trolls that in complex create big living community that you need to interact with. Dialogue system there what is become "classical" ones but in this example it is in many ways showed how it should be done best. I often say that part where you should learn lizzard language in realtime with help of pisoner that silent like fish and showing meaning of lizzard words by sharades and you need write them on paper is absoluetly awesome and game full of moments like that.
Leveling by praying mantras, magic system by collecting runestones, deep inventory system whre you need stuck everything in actual bags and wallets and you need actually manage your inventory, not "you have X kg in your inventory", trading is actual barther where you like "I give you that, you give me that.. offer?". And even there gold parts andcoins, they used not as primal currency most times.
Detailed enivrment for it's time, innovative dynamic music and basic, but very good plot that you remember. And second game in much more ways connected with main ultima plots but this is another story. Truley, this is one of the best Action RPG (in cassic meaning of this word, not skyrim or wedzemin 3)
However, like it's sucsessors System Shock 1-2, this game may have not very intuitive for modern people controls - as many games from it's times (like wasd become a true thing only from Quake), as it game have THAT control system of turn based first person tiel based blobbers, but IN REAL TIME. You know that system if you played TES Arena (that by itself was in many wasys based on Ultima Underworld and basicly an Elder Scrolls Legen Battlespire was Underworld clone) or it was opotional control scheme in tes2 daggerfall even. Graphics - is example of one of the most early proper fake 3d with 2,5render, in many ways more advanced that wolfenstein and even sometimes doom, but with resolution and software render that far beyound what you accepted as normal today.

But you know what I may recommend for you? Not in any way as inssult by any kind, but actual honest recomendation based on personal experience. Try to go ddep BEYOND YOUR ZONE OF COMFORT. You know that I most probably kid compare to you? I start playing games from 2006 or something, get my personal PC in end of 2008, games of mine chldhood was GTA Vice City and San Andreas, then Call of Duty 5 and Stalker, Counter Strike Source and Condition Zero, Warcraft 3. Games that by any defenition is far from "old" or "assburger". Many control schemes, genres, old graphics was for me ugly and unplayable, but I go deeper and deepre, tried to understand many old games, understand old graphics and classic gameplay - and for many ways I rewarded by discovering so many things, a truley masterpices that created me as person. From Morrowind, that at first try for me was ugly and clumsy to wizardry 6 that at first was absoluetly unplayable. Now I feel there like in home, I prefer a lot of style of clssic game art and grpahics, I feel myself comfy with old control schemes, like daggerfall where you need to move mouse to hit someone or jurassic park trespasser where camera and hand movment separate.
And more you go deep inside it - more less you want usual and casual games. It is like after you seen A GOD, anything else look more gray and boring. I shurely don't want go back to skyrim after morrowind, and I'am shure I will not spend many times in call of dooty or battlefield.

If you want disscus classic grphics and design, maybe engines and technologies, in more depth, I will shure be happy, this is my favorite topic.

About Thief 1-2 games - yep it was made by same guys as Underworld and System Shock, but yeah, it much more modern in therms of controls, don't worry. It is not RPG, but not and FPS too. This is most awesome first perso stealth simulator was ever created, with nice style, lore, atmosphere. With very complex gameplay around actual shadows, noise. Basicly on every level you have goal - to steal something or do something. Level is complex labytinth that you have on map only in style of actul picture your hero did himself on piece of paper. You need use covers, stay in shadows from patrooling guards and all other kinds of creatures. Using your arrows with water and mood, be able to use your rope everywhere making for free of movment, also there a lot secondary goals from stealing aeverything to not kill anybody and with increacing difficulty it all become more difficult, where you need to think tactically. I remember first time playig how I maded one guard unconscious and moved body in a puddle... and after time he drowned and died and I lot game lol.
Classic thiefs and 2014 YOBA remake-seqel is actually main topic of that famous video Thief vs. AAA gaming:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU

Well, if it ishard to start, nothing bad to start from videos on youtube, about learning facts, technology, secrets and community of all games you want get into. maybe even watching quality let's play may be not a bad idea. All this games come from time where you need read book andmanual before playing it and have actual threshold of occurrence, but belive me, it's worth it.

Stalker... well, at first it much better play on russian :D
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No. 4833
123 kB, 771 × 407
But actually eeehhh.. sorry. Play you owerwatch if you want I should care about things much less than I do now
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No. 4836
4 kB, 640 × 400
67 kB, 640 × 400
5 kB, 640 × 400
I wish there were more interesting multiple choice type games in the mood of Hidden Agenda. If you have never heard of it, HA is a game where you take on the role of the new president of a country recently liberated by a coalition of domestic forces from the control of an oppressive regime, the remnants of which are still somewhat present in your country. There are three political parties comprising the government that you will have to attempt to appease, or you will quickly find yourself in the middle of a civil war. The first represents the interests of the big-money industrialists, capitalists, landowners, the army, and the church. Next are the limp-wristed moderates, who represent a middle-of-the-road approach to foreign police, economic and social reform, and are pro-civil liberties. Last are the baby-eating godless Marxists and poor farmers who favor strong land reforms and other left-wing, pie in the sky policies.

Now as you can imagine, with such differing ideas about how the nation should conduct itself, there is going to be trouble. At the start of the game you will be forced to choose members of your cabinet from at least two parties, and no matter who you choose or how carefully you try and maintain the middle way in action, you are going to piss people off. Depending on your choices, one or more parties will plot against you and likely form a revolutionary exile army in a neighboring country with the assistance of Yankee Imperialism/International Communist-Freemason Conspiracy and attempt a coup. If you have kept the people happy with your choices and haven't made the army too angry with you, they will likely come to your aid the first few times the presidential palace is surrounded by tanks, but it isn't a given that this will happen. It seems to be easier to survive as a more right-leaning government thanks to the support of the military, but you have to walk a fine line no matter what if you hope to survive.

King of Dragon Pass is like this to a degree, but in Hidden Agenda luck doesn't play as big of a role as in that game. I think they are both good in their own way, but when I meet an ignominious end in Hidden Agenda I usually think "I deserved this!" compared to KoDP where my huge armies can be routed by twenty crofters thanks to the whims of an angry god.
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No. 4890
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Is Ernst aware of Kenji Eno?

Eno was a game designer best known for the D trilogy (D, Enemy Zero and D2), all titles featuring the self-styled "digital actress" Laura as the protagonist. His life's work can be seen as early attempts to shift gaming's focus towards story and narrative. D and Enemy Zero are comprised entirely of full-motion video that captures a cinematic experience. As time hasn't been kind to either game, both have aged poorly and are largely seen as relics of '90s gaming zeitgeist. His ambitions were often at the expense of gameplay and replayability. Frankly, point-and-click adventure games were a novelty that quickly wore thin on all but the most dedicated gamers.

Eno's last title D2 resolved the previous installments' flaws by virtue of being an interactive Horror Survival game. It was obvious Eno was incorporating some established conventions from other Horror Survival games for the sake of reaching a wider audience, but the game retained Eno's artistic spirit. D2 still tests your patience with enemies interrupting you every 45 seconds of walking around the wintry landscapes. The repetitive gameplay rendered playing it such a chore. D2 felt twice as long than justifiable, and the story's themes were difficult to grasp.

Even so, it's a shame Eno died before reaching his peak, because with the right team, he could've been a legend. In many respects, he was born too soon. Were he still with us today, he could've easily secured Patreon or Kickstarter funds for any project he desired.

Sayonara, Kenji. you may be gone, but your life's work will never be forgotten:
https://youtu.be/tJ-zrmf74Ug
https://youtu.be/wes_OdOVdw4
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No. 4917
My laptop gaming system is so fugged, overheats and dies even after I bought some external fan.

I've been playing mostlt 'indie' roguelikes, though I'd be very hapoy for recommendations on noice vidya with low graphic requirements.
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No. 4925
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>>4917
>overheats and dies even after I bought some external fan.
You most probably ned to dissasamble it and clean dust in shit, removing also old thermal paste and attach new one. If your computer make noise also, you most probably need new cooler, I had same problem.

>I've been playing mostlt 'indie' roguelikes, though I'd be very hapoy for recommendations on noice vidya with low graphic requirements.
I currently decided to start first Soldier of Fortune. There are not many games maded on Quake 2 engine, and it is funny that this game was done after qauake 3 release, however looks pretty nice for Quake 2 engine and I not seen a lot disadvantages of idTech2 that I seen in Kingpin: Life of Crime, like animations problems due to not having skeletons but just vertex animations.
I played a little bit, but it was made by famous raven, back when they did great games based on id technologies, and this is famous game indeed so I expect it to be good late 90s early 00s story-driven FPS with nice action and levels.

Also today because was riminded early, spended whole day in co-op of System Shock 2 with friend. May only say that USA ball early was so wrong in his thought that this is an FPS, of cource this is complex exploration games heavely orientated on skills. Controlls bay feel not very good at first if you expect type of movment like in Quake, but indeed same as in thief games they maded for more realism and like in many games with a lot RPG elements they count on your character skills. When gunplay obviously not the best, close combat same as you seen in Thief 1-2 games are very awesome. But after first parts it plays more like survival horror, where you mostly need avoid many enemies that also respawning and wandering around, manage you inventory and skills, saving important items and all things like this. Some models and animations may look funny, but for most part it is problem of game engine, but I love graphics like this.
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No. 4940
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Damn those Tigers hit hard. Poor old 26th Guards Corps was on the Soviet left and got absolutely hammered by the III Pz Korps and in particular the 1st Panzer Division. Almost got entirely driven into the Tisza. I really do like it when things like this happen though. They don't have enough of them to break my advance but they have local superiority in that sector now. They'll have to retreat or risk encirclement though. It's really cool to have desperate German counterattacks instead of the regular PO action of retreating in the face of numbers. The designer did a great job with their PO.
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No. 4942
>>4917
As the Russian said, replace that paste. It brought my old laptop's temps down by about 20C.
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No. 4944
1,8 MB, 1280 × 776
I sat down to play Battle for Wesnoth again.
This map was made to test how OP a fortification can get.
The characteristics include
>Fort tiles can only be attacked from one side
>Cavalry units can't "Charge" down Artillery in the forts
>Because of the desert tiles, the attackers are vulnerable
>Outside the fort there is only desert which slows down movement and makes it harder to get fresh troops to the front lines
>Artillery can only move alongside railways
So I'm testing it in a 1v5 game where everyone starts with equal founds.
I gave myself a 4 gold / turn extra.
A human player probably could crack it open, but I think it heavily depends on luck, since the medics heal the Artillery units every turn.
It's retarded but I find the concept interesting.
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No. 4946
>>4944
I could never really get into Wesnoth. I wanted to since it was pretty fun but it never entirely clicked with me.
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No. 4948
>>4946
I enjoy it at a quite amateur level myself.
The original factions are fun to play around with, but besides knowing some really basic things I'm no master of it by any means.
It seems like a really complex rock-paper-scissors, where each type of attack is best against a type of enemy.
For example, spears are bad against skeletons, but maces are excellent.
Same goes for magic, where holy stuff eradicates them.
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No. 4949
>>4948
Yeah, I just find traditional wargaming more intuitive and fun. Wesnoth is harder for me to get a proper perspective in and so it's hard to get a feel for the flow of the game so it felt more like flailing at the enemy until I won rather than making any good moves.
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No. 4950
>>4949
I had tons of fun with it as a kid.
But mainly with the map editor. Same goes for HoMM2.
Any game that had a map editor, I had fun with it.
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No. 4951
>>4946
The randomness of encounters is the only thing that I ever disliked about Wesnoth, but so much so, that I never played it beyond two or three campaigns...

It's overall really great, but that one mechanic ruins it for me.
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No. 4959
>>4951
You mean the dice rolls with the attacks?
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No. 4960
>>4959
Yeah. The variance is way too high for my taste, regularly ruining any kind of strategy I try to implement.
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No. 4974
>>4960
I sort of think it's like with Nu-XCOM where your goal is to maximalize those chances, but you have less factors and some of them are not available most of the time, or passive.
Primarily I think here defence is more important than offence.
See the map I posted here, where I was victorious simply because I used the terrain. This is of course an exaggerated example, since the map was made to be unbeatable for the attackers . But in a regular game, it can be quite a headache to get a bunch of elves out of the forest if your units are not suited against elves AND forest combat. But this strategic value is often negated primarily because the goal isn't to engage the Enemy's units but to kill off the leader.
If all the villages are on the plains, then your elves are going to be worth jack shit against human cavalry, and your human cavalry is going to get fucked by skeletons because he has a spear.
It's a complicated system and not as extreme as I've described it, but it does matter more to have better units than to have more.
You can win against larger forces with smaller ones if you have the right terrain and the right units for the job.
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No. 5013
>>4942
Its a fugged computer anyway, gonna buy another when im less miserably impoverished.

But would still appreciate recommendations of old games that aged well (or low req new games)

Neen playing Warcraft 3 recently but preferres over lowspec games like FTL or Curious Expedition
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No. 5018
>>5013
>Its a fugged computer anyway,
None computer is "fucked" untill dunno, motherboard and cpu litteraly burned everywhere. Every computer need replace of thermal paste over time.

>Warcraft 3
Command & Conquer Generals (+Zero Hour)
Emperor: Battle for Dune
Star wars Empire at War (addon Forces of Corruption are much more epin)

>aged well
Videogames are not ex-girlfriend to age :/

>>4890
Unfortanaly, I'am not familiar with that
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No. 5021
40 kB, 640 × 480
>>5018
>Videogames are not ex-girlfriend to age :/
Yeah, they just become outdated the day, when better solution appears. Outdated graphics, outdated controls, sometimes even outdated sound.
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No. 5022
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>>5021
Art can bot be "outdated". Fact that artists and developers worked with some limitations didn't mean that you can not appretiate it now and it become some kind of "old".
I don't think classic music become "outdated" with creating of synthesators, and impressionism and modernism and other stylisation styles become "old and ugly" just because it is not realism and we now have digital art.
And fact that it is too hard for you to read manual and use something outside of wasd don't mean gameplay and controls are something bad when they objectivly playable.

Pic you posted is from Golden Eye 007 - I played it recently, this game is peace of total junk and was prized only among nintendo players who looks like seen fps game (beyond terrible doom ports) for the first time.

In 1997 was a lot far more playable and good looking shooters
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No. 5040
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>>5022
>Art can bot be "outdated".
But there is outdated art. Medieval style is outdated, ancient Egyptian art is outdated as well. It's legit to not like them and don't appreciate this art. Though it can be a lot better than contemporary so-called "art".
>And fact that it is too hard for you to read manual and use something outside of wasd don't mean gameplay and controls are something bad when they objectivly playable.
Wooden toys nailed to the wall are objectively playable as well. But are they interesting to play?
If you've got nothing else to play, you gotta play what you have. If you have been introduced to better looking toys, it's questionable whether you are going to like wooden ones.
>Pic you posted is from Golden Eye 007 - I played it recently, this game is peace of total junk and was prized only among nintendo players who looks like seen fps game (beyond terrible doom ports) for the first time.
Fact that it is too hard for you to use something outside of keyboard and mouse don't mean gameplay and controls are something bad when they objectivly playable.
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No. 5053
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>>5040
>But there is outdated art. Medieval style is outdated, ancient Egyptian art is outdated as well. It's legit to not like them and don't appreciate this art.
Ancient Eguptians and Medival people was limited by actual skill and imagination, not by technology. Egyptians followed their square-lienar scheme as canon, medival people - not all actually but I bet you talk about most drawings in books and stuff like that - had serious lack of understanding perspective, form, proportions, all that things was re-disocvered properly later, in renaissance and since than we can not talk about such thing as "outdated art" absoluetly. With instruments you had in Egypt and Medival you can create much more advanced art, and tbh, some people do and even before medival with same or lesser technology greece and roman art was on very high level. Anyway, it be error compare lack of skill and knowlege to lack of actual technical limitations. Drawed by pencil art not become outdated just beause exist such things as oil paiting with many colors.

>Wooden toys nailed to the wall are objectively playable as well. But are they interesting to play?
I don't know why you even compare videogames to toys and in such direct manner, bringing everything to the absolute. I don't know, maybe it is fair for console games, like I don't think very simple arcade platformer can provide you much, but it is devenetly ctitical error of any kinds of logic if we think about majority good games from gold-silver computer games era. A lot of games from this era by plot, atmosphere, mechanics, world and gameplay often equal to modern, or even more complex than modern exaples from same genre/series, some even has no any analogs right now. So it is twise wrong to say that that old games are some sort of "wooden toys". Wooden toys may also be very different, this material give great possibilities for art and entertaiment.

You know thing, that many old games have such thing as "threshold of occurrence"? They also often requred patience and reading books and manuals. This not make them some sort of outdated thing, they just aimed for different target audience. And fact that you maybe have problems with some interface, gameplay, controls most times means not that this games "old and outdated" but just that you not playing them properly?

>pic related
Awesome thing that you reminded me of such awesome game as Ureal, probably best FPS game from 1997 objectivly, even thought it tough decidion. Of cource it is obvious that such graphics will not make "wow" effect in therms of technology, but same time this game are still beautifull as art and as actual first person shooter. It is very entertaining to play that game, even thought I'am more fan of id (or was at least when was kid), this game by many ways better than Quake 2 as art and as gameplay. Dunno how history turned if Romero not leaved id, but thig is as it is. This game by look not my top favorite one, honestely, but colors, painted textures, levle geometry still looks very and very plesant. And this game clearly much more fun and advanced than for example DooM2016, that hide it's primitive level desighn with almost childish-tier gameplay where half of game is arena in closed room.

in conclusion: age not the art and most times gameplay, only technologies, but still, you can appreciate this previous limitations as some sort of instrument. Many indie developers from modern times trying to reacreate a lot achivments done in times of previous limitations, but often fail, because to make such things as quality low poly models, beautifull levels with limited geometry, good look with limited colors and without such things as dynamic shadows, normalmaps, PBR etc. you often need much higer artistic talant and much more actual work. Absolute realism in art already was achived many times thought, since ancient age, but this clearly not mean that any other stylization than realistic one should exist.

>Fact that it is too hard for you to use something outside of keyboard and mouse don't mean gameplay and controls are something bad when they objectivly playable.
This game is objectivly absolute garbage. I will not say that this game was absoluetly outdated by technological standarts in 1997, more problem that it was clearly done by people who never did any FPS game, ave problems with art style and levledesign. Whole game is basicly set of primitive rooms with very basic tasks - go forward in next room, kill, protect and all that done by most basic levledesign - like you know "mom my first map for doom". Art in that game are shit - you already posted low poly man that with same resourses cn be done 10 times better, but here it is ugly model with poorly attached UV with some low res photographic texture. Overall detalisation jump from almost nothing to detailed models. This game plays very meh and basic, as art it below averege and honestely this game lower than such games as witcheaven, or tekwar, which is achivment of some sort. It is funny that perfect dark by same people on same hardware looks much more good, by artstyle and detalisation, which means that this guys are learned how to make FPS games on the run. This games reminds me of Sonic Adventures 1, where it is obvious that it was done by people who don't ever did something beyond 2d platformers and well.. it is below averege by any objective standarts from art to gameplay. Same thing you may see with evolution of xatrix entertaiment from redneck rampage to actual RTCW.
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No. 5104
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I've done this scenario from the other side before and it was a lot of fun, even if it's a very long 240 turn game. It uses half-day turns and your operational units are divisions which means that tactically you are moving around battalions which is very fine scale for a game this size. It's also what makes it so interesting though in my opinion because it's very flexible. Pic is only a section of the map. It goes from a bit east of El Agheila to Cairo and as far south as Siwah and the Fayyum, so you've got a lot of battlefield to work with.

Anyway, the Axis player has a rule that they must capture three points by turn 5. The last of which is Sidi Barrani. That's a tall order and it's done to make sure that your forces will be disorganised and out of position when the Commonwealth counterattack happens. I think it's a clever way of making it feel less cheap when the O'Connor Offensive begins because you are the one who moved them into poor positions in order to secure the objectives before time runs out.

I suspect Commonwealth forces to be massing around Oxford and Piccadilly Circus, so I've set the Libyan Tank Command to only make trivial resistance and fall back when engaged. I intend to withdraw the 115th Infantry Regiment from around Buq Buq to Sofafi and then use that avenue to withdraw the 4th Libyan Regiment since I suspect the avenue south of the ridge will be cut off in the initial Commonwealth thrust. I intend to make a withdrawal using the ridges to slow the Commonwealth forces until I can set up strong positions on the ridges around Tobruk. I have no intention of wasting troops trying to contend with Commonwealth armoured forces in the open desert when I can instead make them fight on rough ground. Losing the Halfaya Pass and Bardia is bad, but it's a long game and losing too many troops early in the game is worse.

My biggest concern is that the forward positions are going to get overrun rather than be able to make an orderly withdrawal, but we'll see how it goes. Maybe their supply lines are as bad as mine and the initial thrust is difficult to maintain.
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No. 5106
>>5104
Things went bad fast. Massive shock penalties meant that I'm down to about a third of my original force and my hold on the ridges is patchy. I have reinforcements coming from Libya but they'll take a few turns to get there, so I'm thinking of withdrawing even further and trying to use the desert to attrit the Allies as they chase me into Cyrenaica. If the shock penalty doesn't lessen soon though, any resistance I do manage to put up is going to be token at best.
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No. 5110
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>>5040
>But there is outdated art. Medieval style is outdated, ancient Egyptian art is outdated as well. It's legit to not like them and don't appreciate this art.

I don't art can be "outdated", as it doesn't really have a selfcontained expiry date. It doesn't really lose its value over time. Or well if it does, it isn't really a good example of Art.

What one can say is that any given piece of art is not current, that it loses its original sentiment and meaning over time. It is however not outdated, as it continues serving one of it's main purposes: One of legacy to the future and a representation of a fleeting zeitgeist.

"DOOM artwork" as certainly been passed in technical, artistic and every sort of measurement you want to apply to it compared to some modern videogame artwork.
However DOOM maintains itself as a defining example of the aesthetic of a subculture in a specific time. Thus is becomes representative of tiny space in a past time, and such becomes its purpose in the future since.

Note: I dont really like retrovidja, I only went with this example because this is the videogames thread.
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No. 5111 Kontra
>>5110
Apologies for horrible typos, phoneposting.
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No. 5119
>>5110
Doom maybe not very good example because it is have actually "whatever" tier art, it was still made in times when id was just group of shareware guys who did smple thing that become very sucsessive because it was first time when proper id gameplay style was implemented and yep game played nice and looked nice for 1993, however in my opinion original doom in many ways too overrated, even thought I like it as a game too :D
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No. 5167
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>>1766
Okay, you were right, this game is pretty fun. It's probably what would River City Ransom be like if it were in 3D. I'm not sure about the quality of the port itself, though. I have often encountered stuttering sound in the game, which was fixed by a little tinkering with .ini files, but I also have quite a lot of total freezes for several seconds. They don't get in the way of ass-kicking much, but they sure are annoying. Oh well, maybe it will be fixed in a patch or something.
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No. 5168
>>5167
>pic4
OH MY GOOD somebody remember this meme
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No. 5169
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>>5167
I'm glad you don't think i'm an asshole who tricked you into buying a shit game.

I'd say you should wait 2 or 3 days for a patch, the performance on PS4 is as good as you can hope from a console, so no freezes or stuttering at all and i guess that's the least you can expect on PC.

Do you play with mouse & keyboard? How are the controls?
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No. 5171
>>5169
Oh, and do yourself a favor and play on Hard.
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No. 5173
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If someone interested, Tamriel Rebuilt released new giant area of city old ebonheart and surroudins of Aanthirin region with over 60 quests and a lot othe awesome things that was done in years of development.
https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/content/tamriel-rebuilt-1807-release

You may probably want to cheack it out with new public version of OpenMW - 0.44, that besides anything added very usefull menu in style of MCP with opotional fixes https://openmw.org/2018/openmw-0-44-0-released/
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No. 5175
>>5173
I have actually never played any Bethesda game like Morrowind, Skyrim etc.

How are they?
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No. 5177
>>5119
The OG doom is unbeatable simply because of all the support it has.
You can take it apart and turn it into a different game basically.
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No. 5178
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>>5175
Oh, this is most difficult question you may asked to me. I may say that for me Daggerfall and Morrowind is whole life, and both of them are in my personal top 10 best videogames ever created, alongside with original Fallout. And same time anything that happen with company after Morrowind is things that I hate most for all of my life. Thought Skyrim and Oblivion and Fallout 3-4 can be considered as decent games for casual audithory and examples of more than playable modern openworld games, by lore, by feel, by technical stuff it is indescribable how low they ended after most talanted people leaved it. From technological masterpice, then to Philosophy art they ended in generic games in generic fantasy.

Part I - The Arena

Early bethesda was interesting company. It was obviously in times when people was full of ideas and hopes, even thought sometimes they failed. Early terminator games from bethesda was meh, but after revolutionary Ultima Underworld come out, a game that changed world, their decidion to do on same as terminator rampage engine something that first was arena simulator, then party RPG and then - kinda Ultima Underworld clone was a thing that changed history of company. Difference between Ultima Underworld and The Elder Scrolls I Arena is like Between Wizardry and Might and magic. When first ones was limited to dungeon areas with floors, separated small world that you allowed to explore, both might and magic and The Elder Scrolls from start of their existance tried break this limitations and go into bigger scale.

Even thought in many was TES Arena more conservative and more primitive technically sometimes (Ultima Underworld engine with it's advanced 2,5 that since start of it's development in 1990 kicked ass even of doom and with changes was used untill first system shock) it was still impressive project. An entire continent to explore with sidequests and many cities, seasons changes thought the year and during fast travel even weather affecting time of it. Of cource it lost famous features of Ultima Underworld such as hand crafted world, hand crafted classic dialogues, barter system with complex inventory system and other mechanics, but all of it was done in favor of a lot great experiments with random generation. Outside of cities and dedicated locations, and all quests outside of mainquest, ALL landmass and dungeons and quests randomley generated every time you go, in theory making this absoluetly unlimited adventure. This games is actually pretty empty - there not much to do besides mainquest, and limitations of technology, experience of team in such stuff, some funny stuff like house interiors was not even finished and when you go inside them they work as one cell dungeon that infinatly spawn mosters, and all crime-punishment system this game spawn guards that have two differents phrases to yell considering your crime. I belive this game using technology clother to Carmac's Wolf3d engine with raycasting, but slightly more advanced, but engine kinda terrible since it works poor with dosbox - even if you change all dosbox parametrs, processor speed etc you will get or unplayble 3fps or normal game but a lot animations run with light speed, lol. But at least I may say that this game still looking good in drawed non-3dparts, soundtrack (dynamic, same as in ultima underworld! Actually more like in system shock but whatever) is plesant to hear, control scheme is same as in ultima underworld thought you can't look up and down so it is much more easy to play for modern players, it still have a lot fun mechanics and you should complete mainquest at least once - after Underworld, this is first TRUE source of first person action RPG.

>>5177
Doom was shareware, done "famous formula of id" right, was enjoyable to play and technologcally advanced game for it's time. Instruments alowed to make custom levels even back then, id as with many other games maded engine opensource not that long after game release, on same engine was also maded some oher famous games such as heretic and hexen by raven. It was one of the first games that showed all power of opensource and current community builded around sourceports and modern most easy-to-go instruments are one of the most old and monolythic. But clearly Doom achived all that not for it's incredable artwork indeed :D They stealed some textures from book pictures or just drawed/rendered sprites from anything they can, game looks much more weak by artstyle than many titles from same era, such as metioned heretic/hexen or might and magic 4-5 or sierra/lucasarts quests. Doom tried to "evolve style" thought three epsiodes from base-to infested base-to hell but besides averege textures and some elements it's not provide actual enivorement that makes any sence and by that absoluetly lost to later system shock or Star wars dark forces. Even thought I love doom and playing many wads and making my maps still today, I think Quake was logical evolution and done anything better.
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No. 5180
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>>5178
Part II - before The Daggerfall

After sucsess of Arena, Bethesda decided to do next game in series. At first project started on same engine and game sould be set in Mournhold, capital city of Morrowind province, but company was same time involvded into separate projects same time. For one of them - Terminator Future Shock was created probably most advanced game engine of the era, that in 1994-96 absoluetly eleminated everything that was done beofre - by id, by LookingGlassStudios, by anyone. XNgine - Fully 3d-render game engine with support of many animated textured 3d polygonal models, feature of draw distance that load not whole world but only one around you, with destrucable surroudings, switches interior-exterior support inside the game and many, many other options.

This was a blast, and one of the famous game that come out - Terminator Future Shock. This game in many was was technological miracle, but as many early bethesda games, suffered from sometimes not best game and level design, sometimes feels unfinished and by far much less fun than playing doom for example. Most of times you wandering across giant levels of post-apocalyptic los angeles, killing robots, suffering from radition, go inside skynet facilities and sometimes ride on a car. It easy to lost, often repeative. I see alternative world when they done gameplay more catchy and polished, maybe with some elements of system shock and used all powers of engine and id can kill themselfs with their "quake". Tbh, expansion SKYNET was better aa little bit, at least more fun to play and it was first time unknown back then Todd Howard was in some sort of lead team, but it way back in time before this asshole will gain any power in company.

With new engine, development moved in a little bit different direction. Sseting was moved to different part of continent - in Illiac bay, west kingoms of provinces of High Rock and Hammerfell, and oh buy, what a development that was... Developers thought that they CAN and they SHOULD do absoluetly anything. This was MOST AMBITIOUS GAME EVER. In idea it was mix between rouglike, classic rpg and first person real time advanced 3d render graphics. 3d models used much less than in terminator future shock because of much bigger scale and level of detalisation. This game main goal was to make maximum content without any compromices. By lore this terriroty is like real life england? It be it is size. There are like 40 different kingdoms? There be all of them. There like 9000 factions and subfactions? ALL OF THEM SHOULD BE IN GAME AND NO EXCUSES! This all - no fake, no cheating to player, no drawed paitings instead locations and interiors, no fake decorations and compromises. Same time they wanted to add dynamic wars between all kingdoms like in paradox games but in 3d real time RPG, they wanted to add many physics elements way before any attempts to do it. They wanted add so many... but truth is sad. Even thought they was so talanted they CAN do all it, they had no proper time to finish anything, and released game shares like 1,5% OF ALL IT'S POTENTIAL. But you know what? That absoluetlycuted version without anything finished and properly done, known as one of the most bugged game in world... MANAGED TO BECOME BEST RPG GAME OF 1996 AND STILL ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS RPG GAMES EVER JUST BECAUSE HOW AWESOME IT IS
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No. 5184
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>>5180
Part III - The Elder Scrolls Chapter II - Daggerfall

Sometimes it hard even thought how far human imagination can go. And sometimes when most interesting ideas and concept find physical implementation, but fastly dropped off by majority just because how revolutionary they are or just because makind tecnologically and culturaly not ready for such things - it is happy and same time sad to watch. Happy because you know that we - humans, can build it, and this fantast can be reality. And same time sad because even it is possible - it will not be part of our progress properly for many and many times, only in future maybe, when we be ready, most probably when you be 90yo... we still not builded gian space stations with artificial gravity and Space Shuttles/Soviet Buran collecting dust in musems or destroyed. First generation of supersonic civil planes of TU-144 and Concord become the last one for many many years and 2nd generation with it's very small limited projects will come only in like 2030s... at least I hope so. I not even say about things like Ecranoplane. Well, The Elder Scrolls Daggerfall is one of such things.

I'll start with sort description - this is first person classic action RPG. You are agent, sent by emperor uriel septim VII to Illiac Bay region, very unstable and you provided with multiple tasks. You need go thought almost compleatly unlienar main quests that contain 6 different endings. In meantime, you can freely explore world, join multiple factions and making their quests, up in ranks. You can also search for artifacts, interact with all NPCs, gain your level and reputation, buy ships or houses, explore dungeons. Size of the world is giant - it is really 62,394 square miles filled with dungeons, cities, temples, ruins, lakes - all that kind of stuff. Most of map and most of dungeons was generated, but no randomley every time, but just once by developers and then polished as much as they could with their limited time. Quests outside of main quest generated to, but they have dedicated templates with plots and tasks, each faction in most final patched game have a 14-20 unique templates so it be fun at least for firtst time you play it thought.

Character creation and roleplaying sytem are awesome - in many was it most complecs but yet working system for such game. It was used in two later TES games in core, althought it was very simplified in many ways. Creating character, his biography, attributes, primary/major/minor skills, advantages and disadvantages are really fun. Instead of easy/nomal/hard it have two separated difficulty systems - fist game ask speed of your reflexes and in character creation it will give your character level much faster if you character have a lot natural disadvantages or in opposite, take level more hard with a lot of advantages. List of this advantages/disadvantages pretty big, from typical x3 mana from intellect, immunity to deseases or weapon skills to more exotic ones - like you hurt when you are inside temples. There a lost of 20 or so classes but you may also create your custom class as well.

By default game using ultima underowrld style controles, but opotionally there are mouselook with absoluetly customisable controls same as in modern games, althought fencing is still something more interesting - you need actually move your mouse to make different types of attack. Magic in this game very fun - Daggerfall have 6 schools of magics each of thm separate skill and contain a dozen effects. From each effect you can create your custom spells with custom range, time and power abilities. You can teleport, levitate with horse and cart across skies, make giant fireballs or drain life of everyone you see in a room etc. etc. But game magic not limited only by this - alchemy, enchantment are famous mechanics too that become most famous mechanic on later elder scrolls games, there they was pretty interesting too. Enchanted your boots with fancy effect? Be prepeare if they will broke to meet wrath of trapped soul you used to enchant it.

Movment skills are notable too - Running, Jumping, Swimming, Climbing on any vertical walls, all of this skills too. You basicly can drown wil low swimming, and if you have many shit in your pockets you will fall to the bottom like cast-iron weight. Funny that even gold have it's weight and best idea is to deposit all of that into local bank. Banking systems is different from kingdom to kingdom - you can't take your gold back in bank of Anticlere if you deposited it in Wayrest. Buy you can pay by your check, or in bank you can buy metioned ship or houses. You can also buy a horse or a cart in general store to care more loot and travel faster.

Time is probably most important resourse in game - instead of food system like in many crpg games, it uses time as limit, if you take quest it probably for limited time... and destination often very far. You can (and you basicly need) fast travel system, which have a lot options - and cheaper way often slowest way. You can break it a little bit with mark-recoll spell but this is different story, lol. Dialogues with random NPCs are very complex thing - you have two skills of talking - Streetwise and Etiquette. Each of them helps with talking with people of different stratums of society. Each kingdom besides factions have general reputation with different people - nobility, pesants, mercants etc. prostitutes was cutted, sadly But then, when you ask something - and there a lot variaty of asking, about any location and rumor, you may also use one of three types of talking by your every phrase - basicly you constract your phrases and then interact with NPC by them and sucsess depends on your skill. In beta was even count what clothes you are wearing when talk with someone

Main quest contains an interesting and complex story, often you go across nobility of differet major forces of this region and it's your decidion to choose your side. Lor of game started evolve - from basic mainquest of arena with typical tier story it started evolving in actual UNIVERSE. One of famous features of series started from here - game contain littraly hell lot of in-game books, like a lot of them and you can read all of them if you find them in game. I don't know size complete set of books in daggerfall but you will need hours to read them all. History, fiction stories, news and research, local science and magic - it is interesting to just read them, and many books from TES2 and more of that from TES3 morrowind become famous by itslef outside actual games.
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No. 5185
396 kB, 1018 × 636
1,1 MB, 1920 × 1080
599 kB, 1920 × 1200
307 kB, 640 × 360
>>5184

You can find books in libraries or book stores also, besides that there are more different types of shops for anthing you need, and each shop have different tier of quality on which depends assortiment and trading skill of trader and his prices. You can also robber shops, break inside them and steal stuff. You can unlock doors by skill, by magic or by bashing them. However magic locks will open only by magic and when bashing you will damage your weapon. If you skilled thief you can join Thives Guild.. actually they will contact you themselfs if find you skilled thief. But if you commited crime gurds will start search for you... and you have two options - death or go to the court. Court is interesting mechanic. There a lot resons why you can be arrested - killing people, treason and high treason against your guildmasters and local king, infliction of grievous bodily harm, breaking and penetration, attempt of breaking and penetration, or even if you try to sleep not in inn or tavern but on city street you will be arrested for vagrancy, or even if you have very low reputation with guard in kingdom, you may be arrested for suspicious activity. on court you may object, deny, all that court things - there used your speech skills and also support of local thives guildcan help as well.

There a lot deseases in game - most of them hurt your attribute after some period. And coninue hurting it untill it get to 0. If attribute go to 0 - you die. Spot illnes early can help Medecine skill. However, there are different kind of deseases - for example licantropy and vampirism. Licantropy turing you into werecreature - werewolf or wereboar. When one of the two moon of gam world is full, you turning into werecreature. After some time you actually need to kill someone in werecreature look to survive. But for that you get great boost for some of your attributes, but gain weakneses too, for example to silver weapons. Vampirism kills you. And after you die you ressurected as vampire. Depend on where you die you will join one of the multiple vampire clans, each have quests, unique bonuses, friendly and enemy factions. Sun and temples hurt vampires, they need drink blood and local vampire hunters will try to kill you regulary.

You can join one of 8 temples of Aedra, one of multiple temple and non temple knight orders, one of multiple guilds - thives, mages, fighters, join assasins, meet vampire clans or witch covens. Game like predecessor have seasons and different climmate in regions with different dynamic weather, it have calendar system with holidays - some holidays celebrated everywhere, some only in limited regions. You can also summon Daedra princes in dedicated day of year if you know what to do and need ingredients and actual luck, their quests leading to unique artifacts.

This only very small part of what I can tell you about this game - it is gigantic and very complex one. However, it is very unfinished and buggy, and it is may be very hard to novice - people expert from it simple RPG but it is actualy mix of RPG and rougelike on steroids. Dungeons there are absoluetly gigantic labyrinths of evil, some systems are complicated. Many casuals can not bypass even first dungeon. It is of cource using classic RpG system of combat with all it's rolls and dices but in real time. It also very creepy, dark and scary with all it's gory sprites, dark dungeons and dynamic ambients. Since it unfinished in reality there not much to do before it may be repeative in times, and if you trying to count all cut content and follow development, you may defend a thesis for doctor in MIT. People still discovering new things in files about it. It run in low resultion for modern times and may be hard to play who not familiar with what is 640x480 on software render. However same as arena nowdays it's free and you can find very fan-patched last version with easy installer if you want to.

However there are nice project to move Daggerfall work on unity engine, and I hope, same as other famous sourceports it bring back next life to this game (all screenshots in this post are from it). Thought it not 100% finished, people already making new mods for it and community was ressurected from ashes. Only thing I hope is that in future fans can bring at least 10% back of things than old bethesda devs wanted to create back in mid-90s. This game a true example of thing from total assburgers to total assburgers.

I will continue tommorow, if you don't mind. I falling asleep now.
>>
No. 5188
>>5180
>>5180
>>5184
>>5185
Do you ever write for magazines?
>>
No. 5191
>>5169
I play with a gamepad (like a "real yakuza", heh), so I'm not sure about keyboard+mouse controls. I only know that they are present.

>>5171
>do yourself a favor and play on Hard
Yeah, I started on Hard. I've finished the first chapter, and the game is actually pretty easy so far. The only problems I had were with that moustachioed dude, who attacks you thrice and whom you dip in a urinal (Yoneda, I think his name was) and Kuze (but then I just bought some abilities, and on my third try he fell).
>>
No. 5194
>>5191
>and the game is actually pretty easy so far.

It stays kinda easy. There are a hand full of enemies/fights that i had to do more than once but most of them are more unfair than hard, wait for the car chase, you're going to know what i mean. That one was frustrating as hell.
>>
No. 5200
7,3 MB, 640 × 360, 1:34
This game is so good. I can't believe there aren't more decent 4x games.

Speaking of which how's Stellaris? Did they finally fix it yet?
>>
No. 5201
I finally found you people
For a moment there, I thought that my favourite community was dead
It's great to be back on Ernstchan
>>
No. 5202
>>5201
hi
>>
No. 5203
57 kB, 600 × 400
>>5201
We look forward to your engagement in discourse of a serious nature with us
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No. 5209
>>5188
No :/

>>5201
More russians on board lol
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No. 5230
251 kB, 1920 × 1080
528 kB, 1920 × 1080
Played a bit of xenonauts.
It's more stressful than X-com, mainly because of the headlines that pop up on the geoscape. In X-com you are in total darkness about the uncovered parts of the world, but here there are constant news updates that ships, planes go missing and that farmers are scared.
Really puts you on the edge.
I like the cold war setting. Having a strong jawed, overly buff DDR woman on the team makes it extra funny.
>>
No. 5231
>>5230
The game goes off a cliff hard tbh. It starts out with a really cool Cold War vibe and then makes it disappear extremely quickly.

Also, invest in airbases as well as true bases. Having quick scramble and turnaround times for fighters and interceptors means that you will end up covering more ground and making more money from regions feeling protected and just from bombing the sites you don't send a ground team to. Just be sure to put turrets in there so they don't get constantly wiped out by alien attacks. My usual strategy was usually one primary base per continent and two or three stocked up airbases per continent as resources allowed. Luckily, the airbases feed their own growth on an equipment and money level until the mid to late game when you also need to use ground ops to get alien resources for capable fighters.

The armoured car is also well worth the extra soldier slots that it takes up, but it depends on how you play. I was very much a Four Fs (find, fix, flank, finish) kind of guy so the heavy machine gun was pretty useful for number two there, and it could do 3 and 4 in a pinch too. If you're more about operating as fireteams rather than as a full section, then the extra soldiers is probably the better option.
t. played it a while ago
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No. 5239
2,2 MB, 1599 × 900
>>5231
It's worth it. In Open X-com I modded in similar things, and it's better to have these rolling around.
My doctrine so far has been to make sure that I outnumber the engaged units in the fire exchanges that happen throughout the map.
If there is a larger one I use the AC to serve as a distraction and as extra cover.

Also fucking AYYs won't leave the ship. In regular X-com they did, but here it's just a pain in the ass to take them out. It endangers troops, it endangers the loot and makes it all the more tiresome.
Not to mention that all the fucking doors seem to close at the beginning of each turn for some god forsaken reason.
>>
No. 5241
>>5239
It makes more sense for them to bunker down and make you walk into their killzones though, so it's cheap but it feels like something that a stranded alien crew would do anyway. Leaving good positions for no real reason just feels like being thrown a bone. For breaching larger ships, explosives are a must. Set up your BOF while your maneuver fireteam places an explosive charge on the door. The bomb goes off and won't damage the inside too much, but your BOF element has free reign for support-by-fire. Only assault once the defenders have been attrited sufficiently for your maneuver element to make an assault with a reasonable chance of securing the room in one round of combat. Dicking around with the door leads to bad things happening like isolating maneuver elements from the base of fire and if you're not set up for independent fireteams then that just leads to elements getting wiped.
>>
No. 5248
>>5241
I also found shotguns pretty worthless. Maybe because I'm reluctant on allowing troops to engage with aliens in close combat.
Later in that scenario I've noticed that the AC can break the Craft's doors so it'd stay open.
>>
No. 5255
>>5209
You should learn to proofread and write for a magazine.
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No. 5256
73 kB, 900 × 432
229 kB, 1024 × 633
571 kB, 1600 × 2398
246 kB, 900 × 1298
>>5255
We are not in 1995 where gayming magazine worth anything X---DDDD

Anything I ot lazy to continue, but of cource I advise you to try morrowind. Game on border of classic and modern RPGs that still keep balance of classic mechanics, with awesome hand maded world, beautifull art and one of the most deepest and unique fantasy universes of all time, game that still gave GROWING community after more than 16 years, with one most powerfull and quality modding. Plot, universe, books, characters of this game is something thatfar beyond just "video game". This is actually pure art mixed with phiosophy. And even is this game looks more like modern action adventure of some sort and it simple to get in and start playing if you familiar with most basic classic RPG mechanics of combat, dialogues, navigation - in many ways world, quests and plot may feel for you obscure and unfriendly because TES universe in times of morrowind very far from any standarts of generic fantasy and it is actually some sort of religion.

Even thought after Dagerfall and another game Battlespire, which was more direct Ultima Underworld clone, a lot most ambitious and most talanted coders and programmers leaved bethesda, in late 90s early 00s there was a team of absoluetly talanted wrighters and artists, most notably one man, Michael Kirkbride who in many ways created world of morrowind, who sadly leaved bethesda, as many other people pripr to TES4-5, which is okay nice games, but as I already said, million miles far from what Elder Scrolls was in mid90s-early00s, and more recent bethesda producs such as card games and MMO just typical dumb souless cashgarb YOBA.

If you want play morrowind, want ask reccomended version, bugfixes, mods, or just have basic intruduction in world, lore, story, gameplay - only ask. I, as many other people live in this game for more than decade.
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No. 5273
292 kB, 640 × 480
70 kB, 640 × 480
107 kB, 1024 × 768
292 kB, 1360 × 768
>>5256
This is on my list now. I'll try the old Elder Scrolls game (like ES 3).

Also both Endless Space games are on not only on sale but are having a free 3 day weekend
https://store.steampowered.com/app/392110/Endless_Space_2/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/208140/Endless_Space__Collection/
The last time we had such nice things it was the 90s and New World and Bullfrog were still making games. Would highly recommend. 4x is basically the ancestor of Grand Strategy.
>>
No. 5278
>>5273
Problem with Endless Space is that while it is clean and gives its information easily, it's just not got all that much crunch to it and most of the information is not really all that important. Tbh, the only 4x game I'm really looking forward to is Aurora's C# port getting finished.

>4x is basically the ancestor of Grand Strategy.
Not really. To my knowledge, they both started at around the same time in the mid 70s especially. Rise and Decline of the Third Reich is grand strategy with production and politics and all that, but Stellar Conquest used similar-ish mechanics and had the players start from nothing instead of from a certain historical point. Both are styles of game that predate their PC versions, so while it might hold true in that subset, it isn't really true of the genres themselves.
>>
No. 5292
415 kB, 1599 × 901
It's going pretty well so far.
Unless you don't count that they are fucking me in the ass in the air game.
I built a second airbase and have it guarded, and I'm going to build another airport on the first base so I can send two pairs of interceptors out at the same time.
The problem is that the UFOs appear in groups, so even if I scramble my interceptors, I can only shoot down two, because there is only so much fuel and ammo my planes can carry. Not to mention they also get damaged.
On the ground it's pretty nice. The DDR lady continues to do most of the work. She is basically the best trooper I have.
I find it funny because there was this stereotype that the DDR used shitloads of steroids on their sportsmen to enhance their abilities, going so far as to basically turn females into males with the amount of hormones and steroids injected
>>
No. 5306
>>5273
>This is on my list now. I'll try the old Elder Scrolls game (like ES 3).
Well, I don't think 2002-2003 is something OLD really :--DDD

>(like ES 3)
Funny thing, that "ES" mostly means in community as something that not "true" elder scrolls. For example, when most wide abbrivature for Morrowind is "TES3", Elder Scrolls Online often called "ESO"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXVi6gxoRiI
>>
No. 5310
>>5306
Seriously, early TES was shit. No intruiging story and it puts you in random generated dungeons which can be unsolvable.

Fallout 1 also had pretty much no interesting story unlike fonv and was only cool because of its p&p style gameplay. Retrogaming is a meme full of low iq adventures with medium iq mechanics. 2000-2006 is the best.

Fookin hipsters
>>
No. 5314
11 kB, 400 × 400
>>5310
This is most simplifed unargumented piece of ignorance based on false thoughts and with adittion of subjective idea that this games beloved for some sort of fashion reasons. I will not even respond properly on this post, because I think this is some sort of joke.
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No. 5336
89 kB, 800 × 600
>>5310
>Retrogaming is a meme full of low iq adventures with medium iq mechanics
Low effort baiting, totally unacceptable for Ernst.
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No. 5337
>>4836
I only manage to stay in power for ~2 years, I think my maximum was 3 years. During the last run I was appeasing the Marxists, giving them land to build their communal farms, and they still coup me.
Am I terrible at this or is there something I'm doing horribly wrong?
My country was actually doing pretty good.
>>
No. 5340
>>5337
>During the last run I was appeasing the Marxists, giving them land to build their communal farms, and they still coup me.
I think Marxists would coup you independently from you follow their ideas or not.
>>
No. 5341
>>5337
Nope it's hard, try and read the dialogue at the end to see where you went wrong.
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No. 5344
1,6 MB, 1280 × 945
>>5306
2003 is right on the cusp of "old" to me which also to me roughly equates to "current game" mostly because I still remember the feeling of Diablo II and Warcraft III being extremely high tech, fancy, and new. Internally I still kind of see Rome Total War as a new game. Fallout 3 is still a new game.

>>5278
> it's just not got all that much crunch to it
What do you mean, in terms of lack of depth or tactics or something? I agree it could and should be expanded, but the attention to detail is amazing. Just screwing around with menus keeps bringing you to nice new little details you hadn't realized the devs had implemented. But, in terms of some things like tech, diplomacy, and combat, sure yeah. Only having essentially 3 ship classes and an absolute maximum end game fleet size cap of 24 CP with 7 taken up by the large class is pretty shitty but Amplitude keeps expanding it (although sadly a good amount of that is with pricier DLC). I still greatly enjoy it and find it satisfying. I could write whole vignettes about things happening each turn and it helps me sleep.
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No. 5352
345 kB, 1280 × 960
419 kB, 1280 × 960
64 kB, 800 × 600
247 kB, 1028 × 578
>>5344
I just avoiding of unsing such therms as "new" and "old" because they mean nothing and changing every day, lol. Using Golden-silver age is more usefull because it is like histrican periods that always fixed. Yeah, morrowind by it's nature and by it's feel actually one of the last games of "silver" age, like Deus Ex, CnC Generals, Warcraft 3, Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy etc, right before start of new, more consolised and more modern generation with all fancy ragdoll physics and dynamic shadows of FarCry, Doom 3, Half-Life 2. However I'd not call age of 2004-2010 as Modern, it is half modern, like Age of mixing or maybe call it Bronze age? Since there was still a lot independed studios and project that still follow spirits of ended eras of wonders. Like Stalker for example, game that absoluetly like daggerfall was based on "interesting ideas and concepts" that was mostly dreams that was far from real buisness and after long development they not managed release all of them.

Warcraft III awesomely looking game. It is pure example when style, artwork and design was done that way, so low poly models looks absoluetly awesome, and this game still look more than okay today and in my opinion this is graphics that RTS game needed, because it often you do more fancy ones, you can't see shit. And warcraft 3 aged much better than generals because it's design. Also this game is rare case when Russian localisation by voice done better than original, where in my presonal opinion at least, a lot voice actors was "nah we don't care absoluetly"
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No. 5354
17 kB, 662 × 239
>>5341
I did it!
I began the game by giving off government land to the poor, I purged the dictator's death squads and the US backed right wingers decided to start organizing against me. I decided not to cave to their demands and began organizing a left wing revolutionary army to fight them.
The socialists loved me, and I began appeasing industrial, cotton and coffee interests by liberalizing the market, in an attempt to fix my shitty gommie egonomy. The gommies still loved me because I was murdering right wingers, so they were very supportive of me.

Played it like a true apparatchik without any principles and it worked :DDD
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No. 5372
I've read something like modern CD-Rs aren't created to be written on slow speeds, but having 6 not working CD-Rs written at 8x in comparison to 1 not working CD-R written at 16x makes me want to reconsider this.
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No. 5378
>>5352
It was a golden age for genres you like anyway. For things I like, right now is the best it's ever been. Flight Simulation is able to simulate more things at the same time, some even simulating the flow of fuel through an airframe that can be disrupted in various ways. Operational Wargaming is in an age where it allows more complex and in-depth simulations than ever before, and their design has advanced so far that the challenge is in knowing what you want to do rather than fumbling with unintuitive controls or bad UI. It's not a universal thing for 'gaming'. The ones that aren't in their golden age right now only have themselves to blame tbh.
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No. 5379
>>5378
Not necessarily, although there's still some decent new RTS out there but more importantly loads more 4x and crpgs/tactical squad have been/are being made lately so I'm perfectly happy
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No. 5385
>>5378
Simulators are a way too niche genre, so they are often ignored altogether when people talk about vidya. They and their fans live in some sort of their own, distinct world. Most people just don't give a fuck about simulators, and simulators don't influence other genres much, so it's perfectly fine to speak about golden/silver/whatever ages of gaming without acknowledging simulators. Same goes (but probably to a lesser extent) for tactical wargames.
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No. 5393
>>5354
Great, I still haven't finished it yet :)
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No. 5432
>>5379
What decent RTS? Or you mean not classic ones, but like Total War style?
>>
No. 5433
>>5372
Why using CD-Rs in 2018
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No. 5435
656 kB, 1920 × 1200
382 kB, 1920 × 1080
286 kB, 1280 × 720
>>5432
Like Grey Goo and Deserts of Kharak for example. You know what I even bought Ashes of the Singularity like a year ago but I haven't even bothered installing it yet, partially because it's huge (to me at least, I need to wipe more disk space).

There is also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUkVOGAQdjA which admittedly I haven't gotten into too much yet.
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No. 5437
466 kB, 420 × 315, 0:03
>>5433
For playing games on CD consoles, for sure. Although I'd be grateful if you gifted me 500 dollars, so I could purchase devices that let play games from SD card.
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No. 5447
718 kB, 1024 × 768
265 kB, 1280 × 720
65 kB, 500 × 275
>>5437
But... emulators?
If I had old console I'd use it as antiquariat. Old hardware tend to broke and than when it happens you will be sad.

>>5435
I heared deserts of karnak was averege? Well, will try them one day. By RTS, I only replaying ones that I know for a long time at this point, like SW Empire at War Forcess of corruption, or warcraft 2. Sometimes checking new version of OpenRA, classic cnc and dune always good stuff.

Did you played petroglyph's 8 bit armies? How is it?
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No. 5448
142 kB, 1280 × 720
161 kB, 1280 × 720
Downloaded the Screaming Steel mod for Day of Infamy(a somewhat realistic WW2 western front multiplayer FPS). This mod turns the game into a WWI era game and, IMO, this is the best shooter set in the First World war on the market right now. It is like Verdun but better. Few automatic weapons, decent maps and really good weapon sounds. The majority of people on the servers are forced to play as common riflemen and a single would means death most of the time. Highly recommend this to anyone interested in the time period. Probably the best thing about it is that the maps simulate both the fast-paced warfare of the first weeks of the war and the trench combat of later years of the conflict.
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No. 5449
31 kB, 250 × 361
326 kB, 1024 × 768
>games only you remember
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No. 5451
>>5292
Honestly, I don't think I'm going to play any more of this game.
The battles on the ground are quite enjoyable once you work out your doctrine, but the air game is ten times more cruel than that of the original X-com's.
Fuck that. Maybe I should restart on pussy difficulty.
I can't deal with UFO fighter squadrons and their "medium" ships at the same time and I can't send out my dropship either because they'll hunt it down.
I know some people enjoy this "cruelty" on the part of the game, but I don't.
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No. 5458
>>5449
THAT'S WHAT IT'S CALLED! Holy fuck thank you. That's one of like a dozen different games I used to like that I stopped remembering the name of. It is sincerely infuriating to know something was there, but now the brain cells or connection to that data are all severed and dead.
>>
No. 5459
>>5447
>8 bit armies
First I heard of it
>Deserts of Kharak
Eh, I mean, it is somehow just lacking a certain something Homeworld had, but then again I am also a much older much more jaded gamer. There are certain details though that are just great, like the way dead tanks and environmental damage stays on the battlefield, or how a fighter being shot down actually bounces and skids across the landscape realistically. I actually haven't much been into RTS but if you still are give it a try. Grey Goo is very much just like Starcraft in feel of playing it. It's just a damn pity that the market itself has evaporated because you can see how much hope and effort the devs put into it for being ready for multiplayer.
>>5458
>>5449
What the fuck there is literally not a single instance of this on Steam. Where the hell do I even find it now? The irony, that code can be mass produced infinite times, but so many things are lost like tears in rain that seemingly not a single copy can be found.
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No. 5479
13,0 MB, 720 × 480, 0:36
>>5458
>It is sincerely infuriating to know something was there, but now the brain cells or connection to that data are all severed and dead.
>>
No. 5481
10,9 MB
>>5459
> Where the hell do I even find it now?
lrn2rutracker, I've found it here: https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1833993
Although I can just give the archive with this game, there is crack inside.
The only downside: it doesn't run cracked on modern systems.
>>
No. 5509
2,9 MB, 1920 × 1080
4,5 MB, 2560 × 1440
1,0 MB, 1440 × 900
393 kB, 1920 × 1080
Played recently new release of Tamriel rebuilt properly, done some quests and taskas presented in a city and around it. This is a really magnificent place, result of years of hard work of a lot of people. It clearly seen how after 17 years quality of Tamriel Rebuilt stuff rises. Nowdays with this most recent release it is more high than ever bethesda done conten-wise. Actually it's not a surprise considereg now much time team spended on modification.
Recent release area is not big - it is region of North East Aanthirin, that contain Old Ebonheart city, towns of Vhul and Dondril. But lol, this already with not all quests implemented alone feels bigger than gothic 1 for example. A giant city with 100+ interiors and a lot unique places, hidden quests and shitton of dialogues. And I say I enjoing this stories, almost all quests providing interesting story, with interesting characters and dialogues. This is what we seen in original game if developers had 10 year of time untill dealine, lol. Indeed this thing entertain me more than everything b*thesda do nowdays.
>>
No. 5516
>>5479
That video has nothing at all to do with my comment. Did you go to special ed? Was acquiring a GED and getting your grade 10 a lifetime achievement? Serious question.

As for Putin, he's actually incredibly smart. Putin did not get to where he is today by being some muscly strong but retarded american bear. He keeps up those appearances for the bydlo but it's a complete tangent and circus for idiots. The man is there because he was a spook for KGB and made criminal networkings

>>5481
> Админы обратите внимание!!! В образе инфицированные объекты.
Not only I don't see Oasis in that thread, but someone is warning of things being infected. And what do you mean no modern systems? What about 7 or 8? Oasis iirc came out for Windows 7 didn't it?
>>
No. 5517
214 kB, 1600 × 900
306 kB, 1440 × 900
155 kB, 1070 × 567
>>5459
I will crealy try to play Deserts of Kharac, it is on mine list anyway.

Also speaking of modern RTS games, did you tried warhammer Batlefleet Gothic Armada?
>>
No. 5518
>>5314
>>5336
You are samefagging and you gotta go there, replay Fallout and tell me in all honestly that it has an interesting story.
Protip: You cant.

Nice games back then. But story wise?
>>
No. 5519
>>5518
>samefagging
Search fror "samefags" under your bed. By low quality style of posting, with one-liner posts filled with bait absurd I assume you are that cancer invider from kohl with proxy or some sorts, we don't have such cancer-tier posters on EC.
>>
No. 5528
>>5516
> Not only I don't see Oasis in that thread
Open Полный список игр, find PlayFirst Oasis v1.0.0.40. I have uploaded the game in the post before, by the way, just download the game and install.
>but someone is warning of things being infected
Dunno. I haven't found viruses so far, since I only watched for Oasis. Also, crackers often involve program techniques which are used mostly by viruses or trojans. Maybe antivirus reacted to them.
>Oasis iirc came out for Windows 7 didn't it?
It was released in 2005, it couldn't come out for Vista, not even 7.
In the end, I have set Windows XP virtual machine in VirtualBox (it supports Direct3D) and run the cracked game. I have been pleasured.
>>
No. 5530
54 kB, 640 × 480
>>5449
I remember I had fun playing Hulk 2003 videogame
In freeplay you can destroy buildings and it will save your restructions untill you reload game, so I remember how I spend day to destroy whole manhattan without save/load with maximum wanted level where like three hulkbusters hunted me. I think nobody exept me remember this game nowdays.
Never was fan of marvel or superheroic stuff thought
>>
No. 5535
>>5528
>I have been pleasured.
Did churkas rub you? :--DDD

>It was released in 2005, it couldn't come out for Vista, not even 7.
Oh, I didn't realize 7 wasn't even released then, hadn't realized it was that long ago. Anyway thanks I'll try checking out it and see if it runs. Is it in Russian or have localization?
>>
No. 5537
>>5535
It's fully in English, except the file of instructions how to use the crack: "Put the crack.exe in the folder with the game and run".
>>
No. 5540 Kontra
>>5530
I played it too and loved it for the destructible environment.
>>
No. 5543
>>5449
By the way, this game pacticipated on Independent Games Festival 2004.
I'd say quality of indies has dropped since then.
>>
No. 5548
>>5543
Well, even defenition of "indie" changed since than.
>>
No. 5551
>>5548
How so? Indie is indie - the game made by small independent company.
>>
No. 5552
24 kB, 402 × 280
>>5551
Size and quality of this teams, their role in game industry and technologies with instruments changed very much.

Like in 80-early90s majority of computer AAA games by modern defenitions was indie. Look at id software when they maded commander keen, wolfenstein 3d, doom even and how they maded their first games by stealing computers every weekend and then placing them back.

Or look how almost all major and famous crpg series started. Sometimes it was beyond indie even, more like some sort of undeground
>>
No. 5553
>>5552
>80-early90s
>computer AAA games
Does not compute.
If anything, console games can be somewhat called AAA games retrospectively.
AAA is not about quality, but money poured into it. I'd say computer gaming till maybe even 2005 was nerd entertainment.
>>
No. 5592
61 kB, 1000 × 800
I just saw that i still have the Apu RPG on my computer, is anyone interested in having it?
>>
No. 5597
I looked at some early game meta and I was totally wrong to play xenonauts like X-com.
The airgame of the OG X-com isn't nearly as dependent on having an actual airfleet with 3-4 interceptors per base.
I'm going to restart on bitchboy difficulty with that in mind.
It's sort of like X-com, and then it surprises you in the most retarded ways.
Like how you can't stand directly at the side of some spacecraft's doors.
Fuck that, why?

I should just accept that I'm quite bad at video games.
>>
No. 5600
175 kB, 768 × 1059
196 kB, 768 × 1066
18 kB, 320 × 438
>>5553
>AAA is not about quality, but money poured into it.
If we talk about comparisons, why not call Doom and Doom2 and Quake and Daikatana AAA games of it's time? The was popular as hell and maded a lot moneis for their period of time, some monies was dumpt into ads campain even.
>>
No. 5601
>>5600
Quake and Daikatana? It's hard to say whether they are AAA games, but in comparision to Doom they are.
>>
No. 5603
>>5600
Weren't those games made by like 10 people in a small office?
>>
No. 5604
>>5603
this what I saying about
>>5552
>>
No. 5867
>>4687
>>4688
>>4647

Hey, sorry for late reply.

I'm currently 2500 elo on faceit and I don't play much else besides it. For one week I managed to stay in top 100 master league but I dropped now to 200th?
>>
No. 5901
>>5867
That's way in level 10, isn't it? If you would keep going you could start playing on stages so don't be mad to not be part of the upper 0,01%.
Rather feel with me, i'm stuck in MGE in MM and can't find 4 others to play with in Faceit (i tried Faceit solo 2 or 3 times but wasn't happy with the experience)
>>
No. 5981
1008 kB, 362 × 360, 0:09
SEGA
MEGA
DRIVE
>>
No. 6000
78 kB, 294 × 203
Rate my next campaign. I'd post a map dump but the bitmap is over 300mb so getting it down to EC-compatible size would mean making it a map for ants. I have to say, having an entire theatre simulated to what is not that far above tactical formations is pretty ebin.
>>
No. 6036
887 kB, 1212 × 673
Man I love this game in every single respect but what the fucking shit is up with the AI in trading.
>>
No. 6050
41 kB, 885 × 743
786 kB, 1131 × 685
839 kB, 1133 × 683
279 kB, 611 × 410
Three weeks in and Operation Husky has been going pretty badly. Resistance has been extremely heavy compared to what happened historically and the US sectors in the centre and left have bogged down against the Herman Goering Panzer Division and surpisingly it's not only the Italian 4th Infantry Division (actually a quality force in real life too) that's causing me headaches but also the Italian 26th and 28th Divisions but more surpising than the line infantry is the 207th Coastal Division. The Coastals are known for being very subpar.

The British Sector is doing better and has broken through into Catania and its surrounds. That's pushed back a massive amount of Regia Aeronautica and Luftwaffe squadrons to rear airfields where they're no longer able to send fighter cover to their raids on Malta. The US stalling has meant that their forces in Tunisia are getting beat up bad though, I've lost three squadrons which is about an entire airfield worth of fighters which is not great for this early in the campaign. I'm also still losing the air superiority game but that should start turning around when I feel secure enough to start moving forces onto Sicily where I have some dedicated AA regiments. I'm not entirely happy with my air war's progress but it's also very dependent on the ground forces giving the air force breathing room which they haven't been able to do yet.

t. spaz who accidentally a new threda
>>
No. 6051
68 kB, 620 × 480
>>5981
Damn I had an idea for this exact type of meme, but thought that the tumblr bird meme was played out at that point.

It would go like this:
SNES: gay "symphonic" trumpet music from some boring jRPG for nerd homos

Mega Drive: BLAST PROCESSING https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTQIiIKummw
>>
No. 6058
Red Dead Redemption 2 gameplay trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srUjOl_wBmU

Don't know if like or not.
I stay interested.
>>
No. 6064
>>6058
They showed nothing much to judge. Yeah, open world game, like every gta and previous RDR. Yeah, you playing cowboy, yeah different regions.
>>
No. 6073
Does anyone here have experience with Shenmue series? I was enjoying Yakuza 0 recently, and, seeing that Shenmue games are called by some a "spiritual predecessor" of sorts to Yakuza series, and also Shenmue I and II coming out for PC very soon while Shenmue III is being developed, I kinda got interested. Could anyone share their impressions?
>>
No. 6077
>>6073
I guess if you liked Yakuza you will like Shenmue.
They have a lot of similarities but the remaster really looks like it's the same game just with HD textures so you're going to notice that there are over 15 years time in between those games.

Also there's no fixed date yet but i assume Yakuza Kiwami will be released on PC pretty soon.
>>
No. 6082
>>6077
I see. I was just curious about how beat 'em ups continued to evolve on consoles after switching to 3D (the last beat 'em up I played on a console was Golden Axe III), so Shenmue looks intriguing. The only thing that bothers me is that it looks QTE-heavy, and I dislike QTE-heavy games, especially those pieces of crap that Quantic Dream and Telltale Games pump out.

>Yakuza Kiwami will be released on PC pretty soon
I doubt it. They would probably squeeze out all the money they can from Yakuza 0 first, so I'd expect Kiwami approximately in a year or so. Nonetheless, I think it's worth the wait; 0 is totally fun, and even half-assed porting couldn't spoil the enjoyment.
>>
No. 6085
>>6082
>pieces of crap that Quantic Dream and Telltale Games pump out

I don't think Shenmue has more QTE stuff than Yakuza and that's far less than any Quantic Dream "game". The game is considered a classic for a good reason.

>They would probably squeeze out all the money they can from Yakuza 0 first

It's not like they sell DLC or anything.
My guess is that it will be released in 2018, especially since SEGA seems to plan to release all the Yakuza games on PC.
>>
No. 6150
2,6 MB, 1600 × 1024
60 kB, 456 × 602
145 kB, 686 × 892
There is a game for MSX2, called Penguin Adventure.
It was released in Europe and Japan.
For a 30 years old game, it plays good enough, it's pretty colorful and convenient in control.
It's a good 3D runner, a sequel to Antarctic Adventure, which was released for Colecovision, NES and a couple of other platforms. The notable difference is that the game has the end and the plot. Though the plot is pretty simple, you must run for the apple to rescue the princess. Also you can collect fish to trade them for special items, like boots, which let you run faster, or gun, which lets you shhot in your enemies.
>>
No. 6153
>>6150
Isn't konjima somehow connect to it or I mistaken?
And is it connected somehow to Lolo Adventures cartoon?
>>
No. 6232
336 kB, 1920 × 1080
Okay, that got really weird.
>>
No. 6250
530 kB, 1920 × 1200
How is this game? It seems it would be one of those things hugely popular with ernsts.
>>
No. 6257
>>6250
>popular among ernsts
Why? It not super assburger game, it just modern relic RTS game, which after dow2 become meh.
>>
No. 6261
>>6257
I thought I recalled people talking about it and it being really popular before
>>
No. 6272
So apparently this is coming out tomorrow
https://store.steampowered.com/app/559100/Phantom_Doctrine/
It's basically like a Cold War version of XCOM, made by the same Polish company that did Hard West. I for one am actually looking forward to this as well as Phoenix Point https://phoenixpoint.info/
>>
No. 6287
>>6250
It's fine. I'd rather just play a Combat Mission game though. CMBN if I wanted to do the '44-'45 Western Front in particular. Their controls are more flexible and the simulation is more engaging.
>>
No. 6289
>>6272
Check "this is the police 2". While it's still mainly about a story and management, they added simplistic tactical fights, so the game feels more x-com like.
Also frozen synapse 2 is coming soon too. Real time is not common today.
>>
No. 6493
720 kB, 1344 × 1008
CSGO just got a new weapon

I'm fully aware that no one in here cares but i post it anyway
>>
No. 6495
45 kB, 640 × 480
606 kB, 1280 × 720
597 kB, 1280 × 720
289 kB, 1280 × 720
>>6493
MP5SD3 one of my favorite weapons. I so happy someone making mod of original weapons for black mesa, so I can look at it in HD lol
>>
No. 6496
>>6495
>wisper quiet
It's honestly ridiculous that they're banned here (this is probably one of the only countries even including Europe where that's true I bet) and is all entirely due to shaping people's perceptions through Hollywood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HzMLvrF6u4
Those aren't "whisper quiet" they're loud as fuck and your ears would still be ringing if you fired it indoors. Also, tbh it's one of the least aesthetic submachine guns out there. MP7 looks better tbh which is mainly the only thing vidya players care about.
>>
No. 6497
>>6496
>MP7 looks better tbh which is mainly the only thing vidya players care about.

I not some "random vidja dude who like cool things lol", I interested in gun history, readed some books and also watching Ian for example regulary.

However of cource I think about how gun looks too because why not. MP7 is meh and in HL2 it was one of the most boring weapons like ever

It is funny that for example in CS GO was introduced Bison, and some people opened for themselfs what helical magazine is for example
>>
No. 6503
>>6496
they are whisper quiet if you use subsonic ammo.
>>
No. 6523
>>
No. 6627
599 kB, 1920 × 1200
https://www.dfworkshop.net/daggerfall-unity-august-2018/

New Round of builds for August 2018! Sadly, Interkama isnot as active in summer as he was in spring so half of magic system still requre implementation, but still a lot people done interesting things, most notably implementation of random class generation which is must have because I 90% of time creating my own class
>>
No. 6676
990 kB, 1920 × 1080
808 kB, 1920 × 1080
844 kB, 1920 × 1080
996 kB, 1920 × 1080
Did another Darkest Hour Kaiserreich campaign, this time as Russia yet again.
I had Wrangel declare martial law after Kerensky died, and a monarchist restoration down the line.
Otherwise it was a pretty standard game up until the point where I had to intervene in China where Germany was fighting the rogue Qing emperor. Then I turned my attention to Kolchak's Transamur, which submitted bloodlessly, and then the Japanese offered me an alliance.
Then Japan moved against Germany after I approved this universe's Pearl Harbour.
It was a surprisingly easy war. Maybe because the French tied down most of the German forces in the West.
So essentially there was a communist west and a democratic/monarchist east cold war.
Decided to go full, pants on head retarded with the borders and created the monstrosity you see there.
I decided to make a move against the commune, since they haven't repaired their forts yet, and it worked pretty well, until I've realized that because the Japanese are idiots, I'm now at war with EVERY SINGLE ALLIANCE in the world, and the British are invading China, the Persians are knocking at the gates of the Caucasus, and I have no units to spare, since I'm locked in mortal combat with the French and the Communist Brits.
>>
No. 6686
458 kB, 1366 × 768
>>6676
Oddly enough I've been doing the same. Kinda spooky as I haven't played DH for months but got the urge a couple of days ago. Are you using the last version posted at the end of the DH forum mod page?

I'm doing my first playthrough as the "Union" of Britain and...I thought a little autonomy sounded nice with that foreign minister who suggested making friendly with the Entente. Things have really gotten out of hand and now I'm leading an utter kcmod union.
>>
No. 6693
>>6686
I don't know what version I'm using, but it's most definitely some updated version, because the Japanese event chain is completely different.

>Going down the autonomist route
>Making peace with a rival ideology
KR really isn't about making amends with your enemies, but rather having the most masturbatory total wars.
Let me congratulate on creating the worst possible Britain though.
How did you fare through the Zweite Weltkrieg? Were any of your member republics annexed/invaded?
>>
No. 6698
>>6693
>I don't know what version I'm using, but it's most definitely some updated version, because the Japanese event chain is completely different.

Yeah that's the new one as far as I can tell. The original makers seem to have abandoned the project for HOI IV but there's someone in the thread doing his own updates.

>How did you fare through the Zweite Weltkrieg? Were any of your member republics annexed/invaded?

Usual case of France steamrolling Germany. I helped but after Berlin falls it all gets a bit tedious.

My hope was that some event might have allowed me to be frens with the Entente and then to help them beat up the Internationale AND MittelEuropa. Just Anglo things basically. Still the scenario gives me a chance to RP as a proper confederacy so I'll see where it goes.
>>
No. 6710
>>6698
Why did he replace the old picture of Hirohito is a mistery to me. The new one is so ugly.
>>
No. 6721
I am debating getting into Deus Ex or FNV. Probably Deus Ex. Honestly I got FNV based on recommendations but tbh I really really wish I'd gotten F3 instead to explore around in, since I don't give a fuck about the wastes of some poor as fuck country landscape reminding me of home mixed with casinos which was the dumbest of all the many major fuckups of Fallout 2. Also no sleep weekend. Also may just play more strategy games, or try to kill a few more rpgs. I never did get into Witcher 2 but I don't even think my PC can handle that. The prospect of needing to get a new PC and fully wipe the drive and reinstall a non-shit10 OS is terrifying. And it would be a total wipe without pity or sorrow because there wouldn't be a single goddamn thing on it, not even a 30 day trial of some bundled game or antivirus anymore. They don't even fucking bother with the free trials.
>>
No. 6723
>>6721
I never really got over how clunky Deus Ex is (even after completing the liberty island level, after that, I just got stuck at the Clinton Mausoleum and I gave up), but NV is a kickass game, and I most probably explored almost all endings and options in the game.
>>
No. 6725
681 kB, 1920 × 1080
Gonna finish this campaign after I invade Britain.
Problem is that I only have 6 submarines and nothing else that can stop even the awful Commune navy.
Spammed out a few naval bombers and set them to patrol the channel, alongside the newly formed fighter-planes.
Gonna try a submarine spam, then I'll just paratroop into a random, undefended province once I've finished training the paratroopers.
I feels really weird to see this multinational force fight a war. There are Chinese, German, Russian, Italian, Czech, Slovak and French planes in the sky, all hunting British ships and planes.
>>
No. 6727
685 kB, 1920 × 1080
I just realized I can use my air superiority to bomb the ships in the harbours.
They are losing ships left and right.
>>
No. 6728
69 kB, 800 × 600
295 kB, 1280 × 768
112 kB, 420 × 229
335 kB, 1679 × 752
>>6723
Deus Ex is not actual FPS, more like adventure with many RPG elements, and of cource movment there will be different. I guess you called it clunky because you not gent into movment and interface?

>>6721

Fallout New Vegas is nice game. It's not THAT FALLOUT like first one, but this is actually very much improved Fallout 2 by content and very much improved Fallout 3 by gameplay. It suffer from problem of hell lot of content in small area that often not tight together and this game more like "luna-park" with content dumped in, but a lot of this content by itself really nice, many ideas is actually re-used non-implemented ideas from Fallout 2 and Fallout Van Buren. I'd say this game is almost-almost become classic ARPG which is alreay some big news, since last classic ARPG come out in 2002. Nice plot, nice characters, nice daggerfall-like mainquest, hudreds of hours of content, quests and dialogues, overall very nice feels. However, I'd say it is better play this game AFTER Fallout 3 for many reasons. Fallout 3 much, much worse, it typical post-oblivion bethesda game with some terrible ideas and not enough content besides lienar mainquest with averege plot, but it is accedently get many nice things, mostly because it's concept artist. However, while in Fallout 3 better watch concepts more than ply actual game, in FNV better actually play. All may I say - play borth and you understand all what I mean.
>>
No. 6730
281 kB, 1200 × 794
>>6686
>a free radical socialist Wales

Why do you hate all that is good? Do you want to see the union dissolved? Are you striving towards the fall of the monarchy?
>>
No. 6731
>>6728
>Deus Ex is not actual FPS

It's FP and also S, a game fitting in more than one genre isn't impossible.
>>
No. 6733
>>6731
>a game fitting in more than one genre isn't impossible.
This is first person adventure with many action and rpg elements equaly. I can't Name it shooter or RBG because both elements more or lesss equal in game
>>
No. 6734
794 kB, 1920 × 1080
843 kB, 1920 × 1080
594 kB, 1920 × 1080
The problem with Britain is that it's such a pain in the ass to set up everything to invade it.
It's a giant fortress and you have to crack it open with simultaneous operations at sea and in the air until you might be able to land your troops. But after that, their army collapses like a house of cards. I don't know if I'll be able to invade the USA though. They already destroyed Canada, and we are pretty much equals when it comes to industry and technology.
>>
No. 6736
>>6734
Well that is kind of the point of the RN in real life. 'Can't invade the Home Islands if we sink all your troopships.'
>>
No. 6737
>>6736
I realize that.
2bh this was the first time I wasn't cheesing my invasion of the Island.
I usually just navally invade it after I nuke it, but somehow I went trough the game at lightning speed.
So this time I systematically bombed all their ports and ships with naval bombers, while intercepting the joint British-American bombers and fighters.
So making submarines was basically unnecessary over all, because there was no British navy left to fight.
>>
No. 6740
885 kB, 1920 × 1080
1,0 MB, 1920 × 1080
1,1 MB, 1920 × 1080
872 kB, 1920 × 1080
KR is such a fucking meme, holy shit.
Half of Europe is now ruled by Russian kings and queens.
The other half is a bunch of "republics" and "Federations"
>>
No. 6746
470 kB, 640 × 440
>>6730
Oh come now, Humphrey. Questions of government remain as ever in the hands of those in Whitehall who exercise the intergovernmental machinery. Regional power has always meant more consultations, more feasibility studies and an overall quadrupling in the size of the London civil service to coordinate policy. We now also produce our briefs in Welsh ensuring that nobody will ever understand our work aside from a few isolated tribes in Gwynedd who, I'm told, lack firsts from either Oxford or Cambridge.

This is how after 15 years of socialist government the national anthem remains God Save the King and why our aid to Spain went on subsidising sherry.
>>
No. 6747
>>6746
It was Britain tier.
>>
No. 6748
8 kB, 314 × 234
>>6746
Ah, I see...
>>
No. 6756
43 kB, 650 × 519
>>6728
Honestly just the landscape of FNV is kind of an immediate turn off to me. I don't like the color scheme either. I also again find the whole idea of a casino in the wasteland one of the stupidest design decisions anyone ever made about Fallout. F2 gets too much of a pass and indeed people shredded it when it first came out for those sorts of stupid things. It isn't Bethesda's fault though when the source material itself is kind of crap, although why Obsidian decided to focus on the casino part is beyond me. Exploring a beached aircraft carrier full of Chinese, or a thinly disguised mockery of a celebrity cult, these are things that would have been infinitely better. It is extraordinarily difficult for me to find the will to bother playing it for those reasons. I think a lot of criticism that gets leveled at games is unfair /v/ bullshit, and everyone knows 4kanker /v/'s tastes are fucking TERRIBLE in everything. I have gone there before expressing my opinion that ME2 is shit, and somehow they seem to think it was the best one. This is still mindblowing and maybe because I was insulated from whatever the popular opinion or narrative was supposed to be, but that piece of shit was nothing but an FPS and the worst FPS I've ever played. I have said it before but I swear this image was made explicitly comparing Doom II with Mass Effect 2. Meanwhile it may have been a YOBA game but Mass Effect 3 was sincerely a good game. But the problem with all of them like Deus Ex HR is that these are based on a time when computer gaming explicitly began pandering to console faggotry. This includes retarded dialogue wheels, cut scene fights, lack of choice just an overall incomplete feel and what I don't understand is why in almost all old games you find a mirror to look in whereas no mirrors seem to work in modern games. Deus Ex, mirrors. Deus Ex HR, you can never look in an actual mirror. I thought it wasn't even that complicated to code?

Anyway I am rediscovering some strange design sensibilities about things like Jedi Outcast and Deus Ex, namely that the controls are kind of awful and no map. Which definitely requires using your brain more because the way these maps were designed often makes me feel like a very stupid rat in the maze being studied by some far off studio to see how many times I'll turn down the wrong corridor in a row. But I actually end up quicksaving in these old games just because jumps are so annoying.

I don't get why this nostalgia Russia makes some of these things sound great. Navigation in older games was freaking awful and every last one of them forced you to jump across platforms at some point, with controls that inevitably made you fall repeatedly. It wasn't fun. It never was fun. It always was aggravating. And there will always be a spare health pack of ammo that you can find by trying to solve these tedious things.

Meanwhile shooting and combat is done so poorly in the older games. Like I will actually stand there in broad view and with an enemy guard looking right at me in Deus Ex and nothing happens. The combat being clunky is an understatement. I wouldn't try to pretend digital art can't be outdated. Extremely low polygon and pixelated textures isn't something to crow about, it's literally just absolute shit design completely limited by the technology with artists struggling to find ways to distract you from how bad it is. It is like looking at a cave painting and debating artistic style and merit. It isn't good, it's shit, it's just that it's so incredibly old you can be deluded into thinking it's special when really it's just cave doodles. Sadly the combat and many mechanical elements are just as bad as the art, the worst of which was by far System Shock 2. The game often would be more enjoyable without it at all, although I can already tell Deus Ex FPS combat is going to be more forgivable at least.
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>>6756
Sorry that I say it to you but your post is below 55iq. Seriously, I say it without any memes, hope it was not too offensive.

At first this picture you posting is more of a meme, than some cincretical thing. First example show one of doom maps and it show technical map that doom uses displaying all sectirs with different elevation, so it show any stair on map, while "2010" game is just lines drawed in paint. I don't know how low iq person should have to consider doom 1 (original 3 episodes) confusing since I don't remember there any really wierd and confusing complex level. However it is true in nature, by the fact that modern fps games become more linear in all ways but I'd show different examples and I'd count of how by level detalisation that modern graphics allow they hide extremely primitive leveldesign. One of greatest examples of it is Doom 2016 - by actually open you map you can see how dumb this 3 corridors with some "arena" rooms.

I don't like when people don't even try describe controls technically what they don't like about them - sensetivity of mouse? Speed of movment? Collision? Keybinds? When someone dsscribe it as just "bad" or "clunky", this person miss or something about game or something about controls. I absoluetly don't get about "bad controls" in Jedi Outcast. I can fully understand some problems in controls in actual Dark Forces II Jedi Knight, it was on custom Lucas Arts engine that had really meh physics and collition issues, games on this engine like Indiana Johnes and Infernal Machine or that game where you build your droids is obviously have some isses, combined how not very well was "force" implemented in game with too many direct actions and questionable ideas - like force jump on separate activation that you need turn off and charge manualy that only thing I want to say developers is just "why?". However I don't know how you may say this to Jedi Outcast - game that was at first on idTech3 engine, fucking quake 3 is most famous game where people jump like crazy with like most freedom of movement in fps games, beafen only by some games from Tribes series. Second - this game was nade by Raven software in ther peak, back in days when their games meant "Quality" and "Totally awesome" same time. Soldier of fortune, star trek voyager elete force 1-2 and star wars jedi outcast and jedi academy are by far one of the best first person shooters of first half of 00s. I like Jedi Outcast leveldsighn - it is clearly more professional made than Dark Forces II one. Both jedi outcast and academy very and very faithfull for star wars post-endor EU and by style and plot dedicated more to books and comic fans, than movies, but this is different and very long story. Gameplay and level provide you some tasks and some puzzles that also feels very organic and realistic, combining it with level layout. You really feel like you in outposts, old facilities, bespin streets. By far my favorite levels in outcast if inside Doomgiver - whole 3 levels is actually more or less belivable standart kuat drive yards interior layouts, and same time they done very epin and interesting. You basicly do whole path from bridge to hangars. When after killing "admiral" in his cortosis suit and destroying reactor you need to fly in zero gravity was very memorable. Only complain I have about this game (well there some cosmetic issues but this is different story too) is that unlike original datk forces and jedi academy which main cool stuff was to move you into cool and different locations this game too much overuse same assets and by look very repeative, even (in-)famous nar shadaa looks clean, empty and gray, even in df1 it was more memorable and I don't even talk about how it should be. And problems not with technical limitations - but just with lack of any "rusty overpopulated trash criminal city" in any mean. However in some ways some location choose I even understand - this is not "tour adventure", game is more serious and also try to show you more realistic locations. Also some map elements in Artus mines very like in awesome Quake 2 Ground Zeros addon Mines "unit" made by Rouge entertaiment. I wrote post about this levels in previous thread I belive. Multiplayer of Outcast/Academy is a blast, hell lot of people played it, and even after my averege quake skill level and after passing JA and JO on maximum level difficulty at first I was ELEMINATED by pro players in internet :---DDDD

For fucks sake, Deus Ex and System shock 2 is not "fps" games. Deus Ex is combination of shooter, adventure and rpg elements equaly. I absoluetly don't know what you tried to expect from this, but it is clearly not call-of-duty in cyberpunk. This is game with your character, upgrades, dialogues, a lot secondary mechanics. It is more "action" RPG what people understand from ARPG nowdays. SS2 and other Looking glass studios games are even more far from defenition of "FPS". Looking glass always was goid at creating controls and interface that makes you FEEL. In my opinion they done great jobe to make feel your character, his possibilities and restrictions actually physically. While speedy-movment and speedy jump perfect direct control hero was originally classic fps archetype - like duke nukem or quake ranger that loggically that can be controlled like that, looking glass controls always show you personality and abilities of your character. Best example for me is original Ultima Underworld. Game that ironicly one of reasons FPS and ARPG genres exist, provide you really awesome conrols over character - for casuals it may seen as "bad", but hell, on 1992 it was most alive controls even created. When I ready my sword and carefully explore next dark corridor (with fully dynamic music even for different your condition!) it feels it fucking feels like I actually move in armor with sword and turn around my head carefully, now "press w to walk rotate mouse to see stuff around IMMIDEATLY". Same was with system shock 1, when you turn you body to see what behind every corner. You feel not like some macho arnold swatzenegger, you feel like you actual havker in cery difficult situation.

System shock 2 in many ways simplified and modernised controls, but fuck, isn't this obvious by your skill system, fact that enemies respawning and fact that this game orientates on exploring that this is not fucking casual fps? That this is adventure game mixed with survival horror and rpg elements, that actual sucsessor of first free movment action-dungeon crawler, not some build-engine shooter? But lol, system shock 2 like 1 and like ultima underworld have maps and wuite usefull ones. In UA you can even point custom marks, TES Arena will rip off controls and map directly (however in arena controls fit much less and actualy meh for reasons and map like in UA not that much needed like it was done considering different nature of game) In Thief series they transfer actual meele combat from system shock 2 and it's pure awesomness. Thief1-2 already known as one of the best stels games ever so I don't need to add anything. I liked to slap guards at heda and than drung their uncontues bodies into nearby pound :----DDD (don't do this on max dofficulty)
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>>6762
Same happens with Morrowind most often - all that dumbsters that play modern bethesda games like skyrim, oblivion and similar modern action adventure crap like Witcher go to this game because by screenshots they thought it be same. And then they relise that this game using much more classic rpg mechanics and has no actual casual elements of modern "arpg": they frustrated. "WHY I MISS ALL MY ATTACKS EVEN WHEN I HIT ENEMY? WHAT MEANS I HAVE 5% WEAPON SKILL, LOW AGILITY AND ATTACK ENEMY WITH 0 STAMINA? I ATTACK SO I NEED TO KILL!!!!" "WHY CONTROLS SO BAD AND CLUNKY? WHAT MEANS I HAVE SHITTY SPEED AND ACROBATICS? WHY I NOT MOVE FAST???" "WHY THERE NO FAST TRAVEL ON LOCATION? WHY THERE NO MARKER OR ARROW THAT SHOW WHERE TO GO??? WHAT MEAN I NEED READ WHAT I SUPOSE TO DO AND THINK AND USE BASIC NAVIGATION IN OPEN WORLD?????" "WHAT IS THIS DIALOGUES? WHY I CANT JUST CLICK ON PHRASE AND LISTEN FIVE WORDS? WHY THERE SO MUCH TEXT??" - and than they drop game, after that telling how "bad" and "unplayable" Morrowind is. Looks like same happen with Deus Ex and SS2 - people expect from this some sort of Half-Life 2 or what?

>nostalgia Russia
For god's milkshake, don't call me like that, this is offensive as hell. I everything but not "nostalgia". Cancer word that people use when they don't know reasons what they like and like some things just because "it remind me of my past:-)". How I can even have this nodtalgia? I fucking turned my 21 less than month ago, I get PC in autum of 2008, before playing only custom wc3 in computer club and gta games in uncle's PC sometimes. You know for what game I have actual NOSTALGIA? Fallout 3, one of the first ones "RPG" games I play and I'd say that in many ways it is far more garbage game than I think about it. I have no actual "nostalgia" for most games I rank high in my "good" lists. All things I say to you - my most objective thoughts that by default subjective human beign can say. If I truley like something, I try discover real objective reasons why it is good and can make hundreds of big posts about my thought and possition on every question - and videogames is one of this things.

>I wouldn't try to pretend digital art can't be outdated. Extremely low polygon and pixelated textures isn't something to crow about, it's literally just absolute shit design completely limited by the technology with artists struggling to find ways to distract you from how bad it is. It is like looking at a cave painting and debating artistic style and merit. It isn't good, it's shit,

Art can't be outdated. And art always was and will be an idea, that implemented thought talant and skill in real world that always gives artist some level of limitation. Same was with cave paitings, same exist with oil paitings, same provide digital instruments. What really important in couting art - is level of imagination and skill/talent of author, and actual level of understanding from wiewer of art. But sadly, other thing can't be outdated too is Human Ignorance. By far I'd count it as worst sin that drown overall humanity back and I not person who may resolve this question. I don't want to make giant post about nonsence in last part of post since I typing from phone and I thought all of this was disscused multiple times on EC.

>fun
Yes, it is "fun". Don't know how for you, but for me entertaiment goes from good style, good plot, interesting gameplay that can do you at least moderate level of challenge and minor touches and elements that make game really something that you will remember at least a little bit. I don't cout as "Fun" bydlo games. All this braindead trash like witcher, skyrim, fallout 4, mass effect don't provide even basic intellectual and gameplay challenge. This games created to casuals, kids and lazy people who want see "shiney pictures" after hard work on some shitty office/factory with brain turned off. It same as adult can't be entertain and have """"fun"""" from kindergarden ABCs books. After solving some puzzles in Hexen 2, passing thought some kinda complex levels in "Duke Nukem 3d out in DC" or searching for bits of story in System shock I feel FUN - I use my skill, my brain to get and actual reward in form of be entertain by awesome game with good music/style/atmosphere/graphics. And after degenerate romances and cutscenes with terrible "dialogues" and lienar crappy FPS in Mass Effect, incredebly dumb lienar dungeons with """puzzles""" for kindergarden and childish simplifed ""lore"" "NORDS ARE VIKINGS :---DDD" or some terrible abominations like modern call of duty which beyond my level of understanding for what people this shit is created - I feel like we nowdays end in fucking Ideocracy.

>Fallout NV
Dunno how you can hate it how it is look since it used mostly same fallout 3 assets, some of them just retextured. I'd only say that at first, even f3 and fnv share many assets and engine between this games is giant pit and fallout 3 much clother to bottom of this pit. Second, I don't know how you can hate that much place where you live, I for example syill like to see good tundra and pine forests in games. Third, I don't wanna spoil but fnv far superior to f2. It use same system of world conten, but done it much more right, have a lot lore about why things like they are and trying to explain why all ended like it was in game. I have far less problems with nv than with any other game in series exept obvious f1 masterpice. Between f1 and fnv gap, but fnv still in my opinion second best game in series.
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No. 6764
>>6756
Yeah let me put it this way before responding to
>>6762
>>6763
at length, and speaking of which I actually was trying not to be insulting personally. You should work on that, if only because this place is not a shithole.

But briefly let me put it to you this way, there's a reason why everyone was obsessed throughout the 90s and into the early 00s about what had the best graphics. This is because we knew even then that the graphics were fucking shit. Nobody ever complained about map layouts or lack of puzzles or good storytelling or humor for a reason back then, and that's because those things were not lacking whereas graphics were. There is likewise a reason why nobody really complains about graphics being shit anymore (although I saw somebody bitching about Deus Ex HR graphics, like seriously why? It isn't even that dated compared to 2018 from 2011) but everybody is pissing and moaning about lack of soul, shitting corridor/cutscene bs, lack of player freedom, and lack of a good story and constant nickeling and diming in the industry. That is because at different times these are valid concerns. It is also why so many people go out of their way to make res and reskin mods for old games. It's because while they were never lacking in S-O-U-L they looked like fuggin shid. Just look at Arcanum. It looks awful. The mechanics are bad too, particularly combat. Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape among others on the Infinity engine did not get remastered just because of beamdog's blatant greedy cashgrab, but because they sincerely don't look good. Like Diablo despite looking way better than most still looks painfully dated.

The problem is when they tried to make a game look shiny and new taking advantage of what was then cutting edge graphics, which often just looked ridiculous. For example I personally thought then and still think now that Warcraft 3 mostly looks like shit, especially the cut scenes in comparison to Starcraft or Age of Empires.
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No. 6765
>>6762
>At first this picture you posting is more of a meme, than some cincretical thing. First example show one of doom maps and it show technical map that doom uses displaying all sectirs with different elevation, so it show any stair on map, while "2010" game is just lines drawed in paint.
That is LITERALLY the experience of probably 95% of Mass Effect 2. I mean in a very literal sense, that is the perfect description of that game. You have virtually no stat or customization options and even the morality meter is fucktarded and where basically if you didn't complete a companion quest they mysteriously die (I guess the idea being they're too distracted by personal issues to not get shot).

> I don't know how low iq person should have to consider doom 1 (original 3 episodes) confusing since I don't remember there any really wierd and confusing complex level.
You'd be surprised

>I don't like when people don't even try describe controls technically what they don't like about them - sensetivity of mouse? Speed of movment? Collision? Keybinds? When someone dsscribe it as just "bad" or "clunky", this person miss or something about game or something about controls. I absoluetly don't get about "bad controls" in Jedi Outcast.
The overall feel of the game. Jedi Outcast isn't so bad in other areas, with say for example gun fights which are just atrocious in other games. Deus Ex is proving to be one of them. You both stand there like idiots shooting at each other like it is some Civil War reenactment. Sensitivity to running and jumping is a big one. Unfortunately modern gaming went into opposite direction and now you have things like Mass Effect franchise or Witcher where you can't even run off a cliff and if there's brick or crate in the way too bad because you can't even jump. So earlier gaming at least got that right but the problem was navigating never felt right, either it was too slow or you run off a cliff. I think anyone knows exactly what I'm talking about with this.

>Soldier of fortune, star trek voyager elete force 1-2
Never played
> and star wars jedi outcast and jedi academy are by far one of the best first person shooters of first half of 00s.
Strongly debatable. Mostly the lightsaber stuff is really neat which sadly got casualized out by KOTOR, most likely because kids are too retarded not to run into an NPC with lightsaber drawn.
> I like Jedi Outcast leveldsighn - and so on
I never said anything about that in fact I was holding up Jedi Outcast as an example of older level design where you needed to be at bare minimum as smart as a rat to play games. Now you can literally be dumber than a rat to play vidya. Keeping in mind, I mean games with no freaking maps. Why was this even a thing though? Vampire the masquerade Redemption was exactly the same way, except with the really weird view angle and constant darkness it made navigating the first city a real pain in the ass. Although, I guess this is also the pre-cellphone generation, where you had to actually know where you were walking IRL. I get the impression these kids could not even navigate a damn neighborhood street without fucking google maps, so maybe that is somehow related? It is probably part of why I was able to beat the Nar Shadaa sewer level so easily, because it's like "what, oh no I'm actually being forced to play an old school navigation game for 10 minutes?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P82HtcU1COo

But you get what I mean. This is something probably most people would complain about these days, like how can I possibly navigate anything without a minimap etc. It does, however, get quite tedious at times and some of the older games explicitly built this kind of stuff into their level design so it was more visually confusing. Which was not hard to do back then particularly in a dark area or just by having the same pixel textures in all directions to disorient the player. Which is not that different from how some places like insane asylums and prisons were architecturally designed to be as disorienting and confusing as possible to navigate.
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No. 6766
https://archive.org/details/msdos_Gary_Grigsbys_Pacific_War_1992
https://archive.org/details/msdos_Gary_Grigsbys_War_in_Russia_1993

Tbh, it's kind of strange to see regular action games and shooters praised as something intellectually stimulating. Try some of the early 90s Gary Grigsby games and compare. The games listed above aren't exactly as 'high iq' as they've been written up to be really.

Also, I don't get the hate for the 2016 Doom. I recommend actually reading about the design process of that game, especially the audio design which was really well done. The reason for the lack of branching paths is not because they're trying to make a dumb game. It's a conscious decision to funnel the player continually forward into more combat. Even the 'cutscenes' in the game are jokes about adrenaline shooters trying to be narrative driven, many of them are like 'be careful doing X' but the character just smashes it and moves on. Why? It's not because 'lol so funny', it's meant to make the point that it adds nothing to the game to do that and that the game is focused on you moving forward and killing more enemies, not dicking around being gentle with things. Likewise exploration of a map takes away from the sense of constant progress and fighting so it's not part of the game. The music is also not just heavy rock sounds for the sake of it, but was intended to provide a kind of metronome to the player to focus on and keep rhythm even in the midst of a disorienting bout of combat and many boss fights are actually timed somewhat to the music. Not perfectly, but enough that you can use it to time your own actions better. It mightn't be your cup of tea, but it's an exceptionally well designed game that focuses on what it wants to do and does exactly that.
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No. 6767
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>>6763
>For fucks sake, Deus Ex and System shock 2 is not "fps" games. Deus Ex is combination of shooter, adventure and rpg elements equaly. I absoluetly don't know what you tried to expect from this, but it is clearly not call-of-duty in cyberpunk. This is game with your character, upgrades, dialogues, a lot secondary mechanics. It is more "action" RPG what people understand from ARPG nowdays. SS2 and other Looking glass studios games are even more far from defenition of "FPS".
We're (or at least I) am talking about the shooter elements.

>System shock 2 in many ways simplified and modernised controls, but fuck, isn't this obvious by your skill system, fact that enemies respawning and fact that this game orientates on exploring that this is not fucking casual fps? That this is adventure game mixed with survival horror and rpg elements, that actual sucsessor of first free movment action-dungeon crawler, not some build-engine shooter? But lol, system shock 2 like 1 and like ultima underworld have maps and wuite usefull ones. In UA you can even point custom marks, TES Arena will rip off controls and map directly (however in arena controls fit much less and actualy meh for reasons and map like in UA not that much needed like it was done considering different nature of game)
I would honestly say that what mainly happened was games like System Shock helped introduce a lot of now common elements into modern RPG gaming, and sadly we lost a lot of others.

> In Thief series they transfer actual meele combat from system shock 2 and it's pure awesomness. Thief1-2 already known as one of the best stels games ever so I don't need to add anything. I liked to slap guards at heda and than drung their uncontues bodies into nearby pound :----DDD (don't do this on max dofficulty)
I hated in particular the clunky melee so much I dropped it in SS2. It is actually a game I doubt I am ever even going to bother playing at this point. I may watch a walkthrough instead. I see no need to torture myself in a game that just was not enjoyable at all when really the only thing I actually want to do is read the logs.

>>6763
>Same happens with Morrowind most often - all that dumbsters that play modern bethesda games like skyrim, oblivion and similar modern action adventure crap like Witcher go to this game because by screenshots they thought it be same. And then they relise that this game using much more classic rpg mechanics and has no actual casual elements of modern "arpg": they frustrated. "WHY I MISS ALL MY ATTACKS EVEN WHEN I HIT ENEMY? WHAT MEANS I HAVE 5% WEAPON SKILL, LOW AGILITY AND ATTACK ENEMY WITH 0 STAMINA? I ATTACK SO I NEED TO KILL!!!!" "WHY CONTROLS SO BAD AND CLUNKY? WHAT MEANS I HAVE SHITTY SPEED AND ACROBATICS? WHY I NOT MOVE FAST???" "WHY THERE NO FAST TRAVEL ON LOCATION? WHY THERE NO MARKER OR ARROW THAT SHOW WHERE TO GO??? WHAT MEAN I NEED READ WHAT I SUPOSE TO DO AND THINK AND USE BASIC NAVIGATION IN OPEN WORLD?????" "WHAT IS THIS DIALOGUES? WHY I CANT JUST CLICK ON PHRASE AND LISTEN FIVE WORDS? WHY THERE SO MUCH TEXT??" - and than they drop game, after that telling how "bad" and "unplayable" Morrowind is. Looks like same happen with Deus Ex and SS2 - people expect from this some sort of Half-Life 2 or what?
I share your frustration. I sometimes see people like this on Steam and get into massive arguments over it. Fortunately the one genre I really like that is almost impossible for such bydlo to get into or even want to get into is 4x. Yeah for me and you it seems pretty simple, but holy shit I have seen them asking things you people wouldn't even believe. I have seen shitposts glittering off Amplitude discussions asking how they're supposed to know the best ship build, people off the rim of Stardock asking how they're supposed to know the right order of techs to research, all those idiotic posts unfortunately not lost but saved forever. Like how do you even answer someone like that who expects to just have one weapon system and shield system on a ship and to be told the exact order of techs in a 4x? But largely they avoid such things.

Instead as you say, these are idiots who complain about the tiniest difficulty, and then most hilariously then bitch about savescumming after demanding everything be nerfed into oblivion. I particularly see this in tactical crpgs, with people demanding stupid shit like pass/fail.

>For god's milkshake, don't call me like that, this is offensive as hell. I everything but not "nostalgia". Cancer word that people use when they don't know reasons what they like and like some things just because "it remind me of my past:-)". How I can even have this nodtalgia? I fucking turned my 21 less than month ago, I get PC in autum of 2008, before playing only custom wc3 in computer club and gta games in uncle's PC sometimes. You know for what game I have actual NOSTALGIA? Fallout 3, one of the first ones "RPG" games I play and I'd say that in many ways it is far more garbage game than I think about it. I have no actual "nostalgia" for most games I rank high in my "good" lists. All things I say to you - my most objective thoughts that by default subjective human beign can say. If I truley like something, I try discover real objective reasons why it is good and can make hundreds of big posts about my thought and possition on every question - and videogames is one of this things
I know which is what makes it so much funnier to me. You're better at nostalgia than people who actually have nostalgia for things. It is just the easiest way I remember you.
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No. 6768
>Art can't be outdated. And art always was and will be an idea, that implemented thought talant and skill in real world that always gives artist some level of limitation. Same was with cave paitings, same exist with oil paitings, same provide digital instruments. What really important in couting art - is level of imagination and skill/talent of author, and actual level of understanding from wiewer of art. But sadly, other thing can't be outdated too is Human Ignorance. By far I'd count it as worst sin that drown overall humanity back and I not person who may resolve this question. I don't want to make giant post about nonsence in last part of post since I typing from phone and I thought all of this was disscused multiple times on EC.
Well, I am not so idiotic as to engage in another futile discussion about what is art after so many in the past (DuChamp is still shit though as is "found object" "art" but I digress) but it is also fair to say that likewise doodling in a bathroom stall is not "art" it is shitposting. See the thing is vidya is sadly a commercial enterprise (as creative endeavors always have been, for instance Mozart was commissioned) and some of it is just not done with any artistic intent. In other areas they are painfully limited. I would say that while yes, a true visionary can create from anything, but he still won't look with disdain upon having to smear his own shit on the walls rather than having oil paint and a nice canvas. Likewise with vidya, which is unique in that is it entirely technological and thus entirely bound by very high end technology limitations. I think that this was probably a component of why we had such better writing and more well thought out storytelling in the past because it was the only thing you had aside from low polygon crap. Well that and the fact many of these people were actual DnD or PnP RPG nerds and it shows, as compared to all the corporate weasels and talentless retards in the industry later on.

But even then, you had very limited, at times very puerile storytelling that was pretty bad in its own right. And a good amount of the difference always was that you had more of a subgenius young adult level of PC demographic, and literal children on consoles, whereas now they tend to market to dumb bydlo who like shiny things and loud explosions.

So there's all that but fact remains, I am sure if you gave any artist the ability to actually brush in individual hairs and raindrops they'd have killed for it back in the day. I mean, when all you have is pieces of charcoal from last night's camp fire or just a pencil and a knife when you're bored you can still get pics related. The problem with digital art is you're limited by the entire technological artificial world in ways you are not here. There are no pixels here. With nothing but a pencil you can create that level of detail in drawings and sculptiures. But the problem is, you are completely dependent on the tech for the level of intricacy and detail, so there is always just some kind of artificial limit to what can actually be done and shown on the screen. You simply do not have the same fine a degree of control over your work digitally. This is infuriatingly noticeable for instance trying to draw with a mouse in MSpaint, as opposed to just using pen and paper.

So I truly do believe that criticism of old art, regardless if it's intended to be or not, in a vidya sense is entirely valid and that by and large most of the artists themselves probably would have said "yeah, it's shit but that's what we had to work with back then"

>Yes, it is "fun". Don't know how for you, but for me entertaiment goes from good style, good plot, interesting gameplay that can do you at least moderate level of challenge and minor touches and elements that make game really something that you will remember at least a little bit. I don't cout as "Fun" bydlo games. All this braindead trash like witcher, skyrim, fallout 4, mass effect don't provide even basic intellectual and gameplay challenge. This games created to casuals, kids and lazy people who want see "shiney pictures" after hard work on some shitty office/factory with brain turned off. It same as adult can't be entertain and have """"fun"""" from kindergarden ABCs books. After solving some puzzles in Hexen 2, passing thought some kinda complex levels in "Duke Nukem 3d out in DC" or searching for bits of story in System shock I feel FUN - I use my skill, my brain to get and actual reward in form of be entertain by awesome game with good music/style/atmosphere/graphics. And after degenerate romances and cutscenes with terrible "dialogues" and lienar crappy FPS in Mass Effect, incredebly dumb lienar dungeons with """puzzles""" for kindergarden and childish simplifed ""lore"" "NORDS ARE VIKINGS :---DDD" or some terrible abominations like modern call of duty which beyond my level of understanding for what people this shit is created - I feel like we nowdays end in fucking Ideocracy.
Well, I like a good story, and at least with things like RTS and 4x and such I can just invent my own, each and every game, and wipe the slate clean for a new one, which is the most major noticeable limiting factor to rpgs is I'm then entirely reliant on the dev as storyteller and quite frankly I'm just unimpressed most of the time. There should be a Kermits scale. When I play an rpg, I am expecting Faulkner. I expect the soundtrack to be Swinburne-esque in its ability to move me. I expect to say for days "that feel when you just finished a really good video game" and most fail to deliver. Worse, most games are like Keruoac, with some pretentious hipsters or meager intellects insisting how great it is, when all I see is some guy with a typewriter and a lot of Dexedrine if you have ever actually written on amphetamines you will know EXACTLY what I mean and part of why I criticize it so harshly. They try to take a higher brow concept, but simply are not able to grasp it or to adequately convey the concepts, so it just looks like college freshman's first semester paper or project or somesuch, as opposed to something truly polished.

What I meant by "fun" was stupid shit like hopping along platforms to get that extra secret medkit. Maybe it was interesting and challenging like 15 years ago but isn't now (although I am also 30 so there's that perspective). Some things I do kind of miss like how certain older games actually forced you to do things like solve the Towers of Hanoi puzzle or actual math problems to progress, but I always found the 3D platforming to just be an added layer of tedious and annoying.

>And after degenerate romances
And oh my fkking God you have no idea how much I FUCKING HATE ANIME. Steam being clogged with this shit now and making it harder to navigate any kind of rpgs or even survival horrors. Game romances always annoyed me. I think the only one that made any sense was KOTOR 1 because at least then it felt like you had an actual stake in it or some kind of reason as a player. But then you have things like Witcher and I'm like, why the fuck should I care? Why do I care about this orphan boy? Why is it supposed to be even relevant to me as a character with Trish and the other woman?

So in general I would say a lot of it does come down to basic writing. like I applaud Amplitude because sometimes, it's not what you say but how you say it, and that studio does things very very well. Even with the stupidest sounding ideas, they just do it so freaking well you end up loving it anyway. Meanwhile I have seen games with fantastic potential just get bombed by inept storytelling. And the problem is I think rpgs like no other genre really actively force you to be a good writer, and also a good enough game designer to think of all the things your players will want/try to do and allow for it. ME was at least ambitious enough to try (not always successfully) to have twisting story branches based on what variables players did across 3 games.
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No. 6770
1,2 MB, 1920 × 1080
224 kB, 800 × 600
Played Blitzkrieg for a few hours today. Man, this is such a great game. I personally was never a fan of RTS titles because they force you to build all sorts of things for a good portion of the game. Thankfully, there is no such nonsense in this game. You are given some units, a decently sized map and a task. That is it. No townhalls to build, no gold to mine. Just good old WW2-era real time combat.

Oh, and the best part? Blitzkrieg 1&2 can be purchased for only a couple of dollars on Steam.
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No. 6772
>>6770
They're pricey (worth the money but still), but Combat Mission games are really good for what you describe there. They can be played in 1 minute turns or in real time but it's also a pretty realistic series of games, so if you're more after the usual RTS gameplay of smashing formations into each other and watching health bars drop it mightn't be your thing but they're worth a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyl8bdaDy7s
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No. 6773
49 kB, 500 × 325
>>6772
Just found their website. The games look really interesting but I am not sure if I want to spend that much money on a game. Will decide after playing a pirated version but thank you for bringing them to my attention nonetheless.
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No. 6775
>>6773
Fortress Italy is really great, but I'm also fond of the Mediterranean Theatre (excellent taste if you like it too). Some of the quick battle maps are really brutal with tightly packed mountain villages that just turn into bloodbaths because of all the room to room fighting. I've only played the demo of it, but the Black Sea game is also really interesting because of all the options that modern technology provides, and I'm looking forward to Shock Force 2 having played the original ages ago. There isn't really another game that does modern tactics in asymmetrical warfare quite as well.
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No. 6787
>>6770
Try GZM mod
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No. 6788
1,6 MB, 1440 × 900
128 kB, 512 × 512
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>>6764
>dated, shit, bad

I'd reccomend most times awoid using this words, since they means nothing exept subjective feel. Again - all art on this planet have it's limitations. It is what artist need to work with when creating their things. And how good they can do it using instruments and limitations they have - this means quality of art, and this quality is ethernal. Caveman don't have that much limitations of art when he drawed his bull - with same instrument theoreticly he can draw or paint something of level of rennisance artist, but he can't because his lack of skill and imagination, not limitations of his instruments that he not used on 100%, so comparing art of caveman and overall computer graphics is something entierly wrong in the first place.

I don't think Heroes of Might and Magic 2 in any ways graphicly dated with it's colorfull style and medival books perspective and cute animations, sound and music. Same way, Land of Lore still looks very and very nice - it show what suposed to be, and used really great art, animations and overall graphics, providing you nice adventure that anything but "dated".

I personally like style of early 3d graphics, because it in many ways thing, that you can easely catch style and overall look. Not big amount of details in models and levels/landscape, no PBR and other filters and normal maps give you pretty clean picture of what you need to see. All details set on painted by artist or photographic textures, not on models, including shadows and lights. This things is if you fuck it up - it be immideatly seen. Create good low poly style requre real talent, feel of colors and pallite, feel of shape. More modern game often can easely hide some ugly elements - current models have millions of polygons, games heavely count on post effects, dynamic shadows and lights, hundreds and hundreds of objects on screen. Often big studios using hell lot of freelances to make thousands of models they need for game. And it is much more hard to judge this games as art or separate some elements from picture to make clother on them.

This low poly graphics not in any mean "REALISTIC" but it more like stop-motion cartoon. And this what I want to say you - REALISM is not only art style exist in this word. We have cubism, impressionism and all other non-realistic styles. And yes, a lot of them is result of actual technical limitations, same as video games - to this day cartoons are simplified and schemetised stylisation, but you not scream on most of cartoons that they are DATED AND BAD GRAPHICS if they have nice style, nice artist work and all other things that looks nice, even thought it not "realistic"?

>so many people go out of their way to make res and reskin mods for old games
Mods is very complex theme to talk to just metion it like that, same goes with with all this "remasters". People do this mods for different reasons - because some thought that game "dated" or think that they can "improve" it, and often it ended like 5 year old trying to add details to Claude Monet's "Impression, Sunrise". About things what can be "improved" is very delicat question and this is very personal thing that can not be concretisated, and should be disscus about every concretic game, not "games" in general.

For example in most of games what objectivly can be improved is resolution (however there are cases when original resolution and render was what makes game look what it is, like with Ultima Underworld if you run it on modern engine with modern resolution and render, it will look "empry" and primitive, while you don't get this feel in original game) if we talk about 2,5d or early 3d. Like Hexen and heretic for example on Zandronum with texture filtering and with modern resolutions looks absoluetly beutifull - artist tried to make actual dark fantasy art and make him alive, and this instruments really help to do so, however in each case of such "improving" you need to think about, what author means and you need be artist yourself and understand style, understand meaning, pallite - all that things. And often even if artist think about it, and put his HD models in original game - it look out of place absoluetly, when attached to original animations and look of the game.

>Just look at Arcanum. It looks awful.
Not played but from screens it look more than okay, nothing really different or wierd from other games like this, and I don't see where artist failed. Backgrounds is nice. I for a long time have this game in my list, one of classics that I never touched.

>For example I personally thought then and still think now that Warcraft 3 mostly looks like shit, especially the cut scenes in comparison to Starcraft or Age of Empires.
Lol, WHAT?

Warcraft 3 one of the most beutifull objectivly games. So many artist and so many modellers put maximum effort, to make game that still looks totaly awesome and charming. It was in many ways almost impossible in that time with it's graphics make something decent - like 3d RTS in 2002, most people may expect something ugly, but fuck - it have most memorable cartoon-ish aesthetics and so many people love to this day. And Command and Conquer Generals, even thought it is still okay looking game, clearly show how Warcraft 3 better is. This stylisation make bad joke with warcraft - back in times of classic warcraft we know, that cartoonish stylisation in-game, but in cutscenes all was more or less realistic - dark medival, knights and castles. And with warcraft 3 this border become more blury, and with WoW it started that all Warcraft is cartoonish like in-game graphics, and terrible Warcraft movie that come out not long ago did same, which is awfull. However about what cutscenes you talk about? Warcraft 3 movie clips are something that HD and detailed as fuck and still 100% objectivly looks epin and new. If you mean in-game cutscnes, they are more than okay for what they are. Starcraft didn't had them, it showed just animated faces on static background that talk with each other.

You can the irony? When I was younger, I thought that this is diablo and starcraft style is absoluetly terrible. Still in my subjective view, sprites that made from 90s """HD""" models is weakest style of graphics. For many times for me Fallout 1-2 looked "bad" untill I start understand and appretiate graphics in generals. I remember that after Heroes 2 and World of Xeen, beautifull handdrawed games, games like Heroes 3 was totaly shocking UGLY. Thank god I continued main series with MM6, that even uses 3d renders for enemies, different beast that in-game feels beautifull even if you still don't appretiate classic graphics, if I start from MM7 I'd probably dropped it back than.
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No. 6808
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>>6765
>Never played
Try it, Raven's classic. Voyager Elete force is by far for me was more fun than voyager TV series. Elete Force 2 basicly pushed limits of Quake 3 Engine at it's pssible maximum most probably, using also adittion "Uber tools" for engine and probably most detailed mimic animation you can make on Q3 lol. Style, plot and all that things - is is probably best star trek games in general. I remember still part of first game where part of custructed from old ships "station" in trap was actual Original-series times constitution class from mirror universe... well, hard to explain in short, better see it yourself.

>Strongly debatable. Mostly the lightsaber stuff is really neat which sadly got casualized out by KOTOR, most likely because kids are too retarded not to run into an NPC with lightsaber drawn.
It may be dabatable only because how much FPS games was back in early 00s, but hell, this is classic Raven, for hell lot of people they was second after id software themselfs, lol. I don't know how you can compare FPS games and KotOR thought, which have almost turn based combat. And problems with Kotor are far more complex and different than "lightsabers". Basicly it was Kotors who start this conselisation of wrpg and then create abominations as mass effect and later things. It's limits of gameplay and world, limits of exploring, but most important for me - how unfaithfuly they presented universe. Based on one of the best comic series by Tom Veich and Kevin J Anderson, that together with their Dark Empire I count as best and most high thing star wars ever achived, this game is absoluetly not care about them, very wierdly connecting plot to existent one, creating new characters from nothing and instead of memorable style of original comics of actual Old Republic for casual reasons using some prequel-trilogy style that before hell lot of retcons had no any fucking sence. And all of that was done to allow that game for many more wide audience than "geek" and "nerds". And this is total crap compare to how for example JO/JA try to follow and present expanded universe lore even count it as top priority over movie ones, even thought it ended that 90% of players didn't know even on 50% what happen and even third part of locations and events, for those who know it was really awesome.

>But you get what I mean. This is something probably most people would complain about these days, like how can I possibly navigate anything without a minimap etc. It does, however, get quite tedious at times and some of the older games explicitly built this kind of stuff into their level design so it was more visually confusing. Which was not hard to do back then particularly in a dark area or just by having the same pixel textures in all directions to disorient the player. Which is not that different from how some places like insane asylums and prisons were architecturally designed to be as disorienting and confusing as possible to navigate.

I disagree like most of games make levels CONFUSING just to make them CONFUSING. Sometimes it is truly happen, like this famous Duke Nuckem 3d Musem level when they tried to recreate musem level from washington in game as level and it was really awesome, but may be a little bit confusing. Hexen II riddles sometimes kinda insane, this game where raven for some reason turned their puzzle-level at maximum and it not work that well like it was in original Hexen lol. Without map was kinda meh to play Crusaders of Might and Magic, at least PC port, but this game IS PURE SHIT and this is fucking obejtive at 100%. They as map dumped into the game fucking screenshot of some poster crappy JPG that absoluetly useless, but all this is very complex story. However, in most cases, devs just aimed at target audience who had basic navigation skills at least.

>Deus Ex is proving to be one of them. You both stand there like idiots shooting at each other like it is some Civil War reenactment.
eeeh....
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No. 6810
>>6766
Problem with Doom(2016) that it is try to emulate CLASSIC shooter, try to look and say HEY THIS IS CLASSIC id! When it's actually not. It is modern fps with some tweaks to make it look classic but in reality this game has nothing in common with classic id formula. This game builded heavely on UPGRADES and have very simplistic leveldesign, that like in most modern games, covered by level detalisation. It try to emulate "clasic" level navigation, but this most times just lienar levels with little go there first then go there, that kinda far from original doom labyrinths. Most lame parts of game is same repeating "arena" rooms when you need to kill X amount of enemies to proceed.

Almost all doom levels constructed to be beaten fast, but same time be challenging for novice player first time, with many encounters and tasks and secrets. All enemies and their look server goal to be memorable and unique in way player can immideatly recognise enemy and choose tactic against it. Enemies directly placed in constructed levels to provide more interesting encounters and challenges. Nu-doom just dump a lot similar looking types of enemies on you, with some occasional ones that had some specific features, but overall this game feels like poor Serious Sam, not classic id-formula game. And cutscenes that sometimes actually block player and nature of this levels don't allow any classic speedrunning.

But same time they did some designs and elemts of game look like classic "doom" and all start screaming "OH NOSTALGIA THIS IS CLASSIC DOOM YES)))0)))"

it is ironic that id not cared much about actual design and style was not strong part of original doom game, they don't give a shit about making ULTRAMEMORABLE by artistic style game and graphics in doom sever clear mechanic funtions, same as story and sseting almost not exist, and I don't even quote again this famous phrase of Carmak about "plot". In reality, true sequel to classic doom was QUAKE - that used same gameplay formula, but IMPROVED it. And this 2016 game can have any name and any style, it is okay as modern shooter but exept name, has no any actual connections to classic doom in any way.
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No. 6816
269 kB, 1024 × 640
>>6767
>We're (or at least I) am talking about the shooter elements.
>I hated in particular the clunky melee so much I dropped it in SS2. It is actually a game I doubt I am ever even going to bother playing at this point. I may watch a walkthrough instead. I see no need to torture myself in a game that just was not enjoyable at all when really the only thing I actually want to do is read the logs.

I guess your problem is that you take deep dive in games, that kinda different from what you expect and what you get used to, so it create for you some sort of "cultural shock" effect. It happened with me a lot times - like for example, after Might and Magic 3 and 4-5 I wanted to try Wizardry series for first time. I decidet to try 6th game which was first game in last wizardry trilogy, and this game kinda came out just year ago from MM3Isles of Terra.

And I was shocked, For me it was like "UHH WHY GRAPHICS SO UGLY, WHY COLORS SO LIMITED, WHAT THE FUCK WITH THIS INTERFACE, WHAT THIS CLASS NAMES?" "ENCOUNTERS? WHAT THE FUGG? OH HOW DIALOGUES WORK? HOW ALL HERE WORK AND WHY???" It requred me time, patience and reading to get into this game, and now I fully appretiate it, understand and can play, however still remember my first teenager experience with it.

Prehaps, it is not bad idea to see how people who know about this games play them properly, show their skill and share knowlege about them. However, it is kinda complicated to find decent content on youtube that be enjoyable and entertaining to watch. Adittionaly, if you want to learn this things first thought let's plays and information videos, I'd recomment you start more early, not from SS2. Ultima Underworld, as father-mother of FPS and ARPG is really great place to start

At first, there is playlist of Spoony's Ultima restrospective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs7wJQbN808&list=PLpaNqz1vDmSixriNnNTD3FKXJ5D_y9wKS
It something from long long times ago of early youtube, when everyone try more or less copy AVGN and things like that, with very limited formant, and probably I'd not enjoy this videos much if I seen them myself today. But this videos are nice short-little brief entrance to overall series and what it means for someone who don't know anything about it in general. I didn't seen such series for Wizardry and MM, sadly.

I don't know quality of this let's player, but from what I briefly see this man at least know how to play game and playing it not first time, so I belive that he will not be "dumb", miss content, or stuck too long, so you may have actual view of what this game is, how it's played and why it is interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxCCmCRZbyQ&list=PLTvwKQHVid4ZJnzcCgELgFQacj3flBI53

And there some odd stuff, old numidium3 Arena and Daggerfall walkthoughts. He is daggerfall fan. His let's plays don't give 100% understanding of what this games is, it shurley better to play them yourself, but they not annoying and I know this guy a little bit personally. Both Arena and Daggerfall games are continue a lot ideas of Underworld in different direction, and this guy videos can help you make introduction into them, so in future you can easely get into them without problems. He had video about "overpowered build" of character for Daggerfall, but I know how to build even more powerfull one :---DDDDD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we1sfWjYKuA&list=PLiYtcIFEuCo_0OqDZXzhaQ3dCiNclR5Dg

If you liked what you see and you enjoyed this games, you make lurk about them yourself and start moving to different and more modern iteration of the genre. Knowing ideas of gameplay, leveldesign of this games, mechanics can answer on your questions about why Deus Ex and System Shock 2 are what they are, how to enjoy them and how to play them properly to have fun.
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No. 6830
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>>6788
Except that games usually were specifically meant to be as real as possible. Very, very few ever had that kind of "impressionism or cubism" attitude in fact most of the ones that did are modern ones. A notable exception of excellent earlier gaming all around was this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHxid6jQQN8 which included the art direction.

And HoMM was actually exactly what I was thinking of when I was talking about the attempted leap from earlier forms of digital art to the then technological limits which just look bad. Like for instance the jump to Warcraft 3. Compare HoMM 1 to HoMM 3. Frankly it had that sort of late 90s just beginning to have real 3D effects kind of look to it, whereas IMO HoMM 1 just looked better with everything hand painted. So HoMM 1 is definitely what I mean by how some earlier stuff looked better or this https://youtu.be/XW92uKQc6Gs?t=415 you can see how incredibly good the base actually looks.

> trying to add details to Claude Monet's
Name me even one game that is comparable to a Monet.

> Not played but from screens it look more than okay, nothing really different or wierd from other games like this, and I don't see where artist failed. Backgrounds is nice. I for a long time have this game in my list, one of classics that I never touched.
It is one of those games where the writing and game world in general were more interesting, mature, and complex, but then the mechanics in say combat are terrible and navigation is tedious. Although in all honesty, it is basically on the same character model level as Fallout 1, but somehow to me manages to look and feel lower quality.

>Warcraft 3 one of the most beutifull objectivly games. So many artist and so many modellers put maximum effort, to make game that still looks totaly awesome and charming. It was in many ways almost impossible in that time with it's graphics make something decent - like 3d RTS in 2002, most people may expect something ugly, but fuck - it have most memorable cartoon-ish aesthetics
>cartoon-ish aesthetics
That's probably part of why I hated it.

Like just look at the difference between the earlier Starcraft with whatever this yoba shit WC3 is. It reminds me of looking at difference between Mass Effect Andromeda and earlier games going wtf happened. You will notice how lovingly detailed all the unit, building, and terrain models are, and how even the 3D portraits look nice and surprisingly realistic. The look passable almost to today's standards.

And now look at what Warcraft 3 looks like. I truly think that it was around this time that Blizzard had in general taken its permanent turn into being a shit company, from which it would never recover. See third pic to very clearly illustrate what I mean. So, yes, I would agree that more tech is not necessarily a solution, since sometimes it only further shows the limitations of the technology, although Blizzard is also a special case because literally everything was destroyed by WoW.
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No. 6832
>>6810
>>6808
Well thing to keep in mind is that in general I just don't like shooters. And things like Deus Ex HR also show how painfully limited the AI was and often still is, where hilariously you can shoot a guy in the head and hide behind a box and they quickly give up a search saying "he must have got away". It is a combination of things I am talking about here, and terrible AI is one of them. FEAR is famous for having actually decent AI. And Mass Effect really is not that bad at most levels, including at least having enemies who try to flank you and pose an actual challenge.

>>6816
>I guess your problem is that you take deep dive in games, that kinda different from what you expect and what you get used to
Pretty much. Like I don't like games that are just trying to be "fun". I like games of a more serious nature, or where even the humor can make you crack a smile or go hey that's neat about the game. I didn't grow up with consoles so that's probably a huge part of it, and mostly got used to single player games which I still play to this day with multiplayer being an afterthought.

So I mean in terms of something being deliberately confusing it depends. Old school shooter type games also had a horrible habit of you getting lost and confused in a dark tunnel not because it was designed that way so much as just poor design where you can't orient yourself, but it is still more mentally stimulating than a lot of general shooter stuff. It is quite simply just not interesting to me and I quickly become too mentally disengaged. Plus I am not looking for mindless entertainment usually.
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No. 6844
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>>6810

>they don't give a shit about making ULTRAMEMORABLE

Of course, but personally, I think Doom made an effort in graphics.

Dunno if I miss something in your discourse, it's that I don't play modern modern games.
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No. 6849
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>>6830
>That's probably part of why I hated it.

You know that ALL in-game graphics of classic warcraft games was cartoonsih? Back in this times, with low resolution of RTS games there was two diffirenet ways how evolve dune 2 legacy - blizzard way and westwood way.
Westwood used increased resolution not to add much more detail in units and buildings, but to increase scale. While in dune2 you may had like maximum 10 units in scren usualy and everyone you control directly, while in CnC Tiberian dawn you had hundreds and in some cases thousands of troopers, hell lot of tanks and all permanatly devasteted with nuklear blasts. If you see close up, soldier is usuay just 5 pixels or something, but in this giant scale all look "realistic.
Blizzard not increased scale much. In first warcraft you may select group of maximum 4 units. They dropped harvester and radar systems of Dune2, but they will copy other elements more directly - scale, GUI, how game feels, some mechanics like you need build roads (in dune2 you build foundations) and with this system they had opportunity to detail units and buildings much more, that even more increased with warcraft 2, which was logical evolution of warcraft 1. Funny to compare Warcraft 2 and Red Alert 1 for example - both games games are direct heirs of Dune2 legace, but every one of them take one aspects directly and not change, while others evolve and increase as possible technology evolve and vice versa, which create two absoluetly different games. And obviously even with more close-up scale, blizzard will never manage to make something realistic, just because this resolution and technics will not allow something too much real anyway. And overall game style was choozen as "high fantasy" one, you may see that a lot of concepts for early warcraft in many ways looks like popular 80s-early90s tabletop fantasy stuff. Thought cinematics was done in "realistic" style just because they can, blizzard always liked to make fancy cinematics...

>And HoMM was actually exactly what I was thinking of when I was talking about the attempted leap from earlier forms of digital art to the then technological limits which just look bad. Like for instance the jump to Warcraft 3. Compare HoMM 1 to HoMM 3. Frankly it had that sort of late 90s just beginning to have real 3D effects kind of look to it, whereas IMO HoMM 1 just looked better with everything hand painted. So HoMM 1 is definitely what I mean by how some earlier stuff looked better or this you can see how incredibly good the base actually looks.

...And this is ironic that in same post you maded opposite claims. You said that Starcraft looks better than WC3, and same time claim actual heroes 1looks better than third game. At first I may say that Heroes 2 looks much better overall, H1 was more cheap and sometimes lack quality, previous World of Xeen look better than H1, while H2 look better than H1 too in my opinion. It easy to follow since they had very similar graphical style and even shared some graphical assets sometimes from like MM3 to HoMM2.

While in end of 90s create fashion of 3D RENDER SPRITES WITH GRIM DARK STUFF that for me back when my tastes in graphics was not as objective as they now was TERRIBLE. And Starcragt was one of this games that was ugly for me. Instead of colorfull paiting style and high fantasy style of 80s from WC, I get some GRIM REALISTIC CYBERPUNK LOW RESOLUTION 3D RENDERS. Fuck, how it was hard for me to get into it.

And I want to note, that you probably misunderstood therms - there low poly 3d, low polygonal models that used to represent 3d graphics in games, often had hadpainted textures. And there also 3d renders of sprites and pre-rendered cutscenes with HIGH DEFENITION for 90s models and their textures and models was often very bad, it was like 2004-2006, but even two position more ugly. And starcraft was one of the good examples of it - and it's portraits you metion are same renders amde with like 5 frames of animation and in very low resolution, same was cutscenes, while Warcraft 3 use true 3d model that animated in real time to represent portraits by in-game graphics. And your WC3 screenshot is terrible, something off with resolution and colors :/

Problem with warcraft "cartonisation" is that in-game graphics with early wow become good enough to represent whole world and game, not just some graphics inside game, and game changed in world of warcraft with every addon in more wierd style, like more asian-anime wierd one, completly forgot it's origins.
But Wow and warcraft overall is more or less complicated Question

>Name me even one game that is comparable to a Monet.
For most of artist, most people appretiate them just because they "told" so, that they great. But same with video game graphics, in reality people absoluetly don't understand it, and for most people if allow them told honestely, they will call his art "blurry and bad and not realistic"

>Except that games usually were specifically meant to be as real as possible.
Wrong. Even games that tried to make "maximum graphic" perfectly understand, that they need to use some sort of stylisation and artist work, to make game follow concretic style. Most often, before 00s when games pushed "direct realism" or tried it, they looked not good - like William Shatner's Tek war or other games that moved FMV studd directly in game. Unreal, Quake, Half-Life - all used mostly handpainted textures, or 3d renders/photos that was heavely edited by artist.

> its permanent turn into being a shit company,
It was long road, and it's crealy start not there and overall it is difficult theme. You may ask me if you want ask about deep dive into blizzard history.

Sorry that I has no time to fully respond to all of your posts right now.
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No. 6853
225 kB, 800 × 600
>>6849
>You know that ALL in-game graphics of classic warcraft games was cartoonsih?
You say this as if I wasn't playing WC2 on a PowerMac dude. Or that I was playing actual WC1 back in the days we still used netscape and altavista. Besides which I am not talking about those two. I am specifically comparing Starcraft to Warcraft III. And SC just looks better all across the board. I also personally hated the way WC3 mechanically made it more about heroes units, to the point of it being central to play style. Again, I hated the WoW direction Blizzard took everything. This would come to be a problem for Diablo III and to a lesser extent SC2. And yes I know you're going to try and point out something about hero units, but they were never that critical in WC2 or SC. They could be incredibly tanky but gameplay never centered around them and I always hated that in a strategy.

>Westwood used increased resolution not to add much more detail in units and buildings, but to increase scale. While in dune2 you may had like maximum 10 units in scren usualy and everyone you control directly, while in CnC Tiberian dawn you had hundreds and in some cases thousands of troopers, hell lot of tanks and all permanatly devasteted with nuklear blasts. If you see close up, soldier is usuay just 5 pixels or something, but in this giant scale all look "realistic.
They never looked realistic by any stretch of the imagination and frankly I never was a big fan of Westwood either. I didn't really like the bad acting cutscenes style and I think there's a reason literally nobody except them uses it. They also rarely had differences between sides except as a reskin. I liked Dune 2000 and wasted way too much time on CnC but they just never were really great RTS games tbh.

>And obviously even with more close-up scale, blizzard will never manage to make something realistic, just because this resolution and technics will not allow something too much real anyway.
And yet it still looked massively better and there's a reason why SC became such a huge thing and the others didn't that had little to do with graphics. The storytelling and mechanics were also worlds better.

>...And this is ironic that in same post you maded opposite claims. You said that Starcraft looks better than WC3, and same time claim actual heroes 1looks better than third game. At first I may say that Heroes 2 looks much better overall, H1 was more cheap and sometimes lack quality
Because I'm a fan of hand painted stuff in earlier games. It just looks much, much better. Like this is another example of something you'd be running in DOS that frankly looks better than a lot things that came after it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmtbSWsdCzM thus proving there's no reason to stay so horribly pixelated and also that sometimes 2D just looks better than 3D.

Like I already showed you my major problems with WC3 visually compared to SC. Are you really going to sit there and tell me that this >>6830 third pic actually looks better than regular Starcraft? Because that sums up my thinking on this matter.

>And your WC3 screenshot is terrible, something off with resolution and colors :/
Yeah, it's called being Warcraft 3. Like I said, there's the tools you have to work with, so there's a limit to that, but you can still use those tools well.

>While in end of 90s create fashion of 3D RENDER SPRITES WITH GRIM DARK STUFF that for me back when my tastes in graphics was not as objective as they now was TERRIBLE. And Starcragt was one of this games that was ugly for me. Instead of colorfull paiting style and high fantasy style of 80s from WC, I get some GRIM REALISTIC CYBERPUNK LOW RESOLUTION 3D RENDERS. Fuck, how it was hard for me to get into it.
Well that's just it, we also happen to have different tastes generally. I prefer darker, grittier, grimmer stuff with nice sharp angles and highly defined lines in general visually. I have never been a big fan of high fantasy work in general is another component of it. But I still think flatly that HoMM 1 had the best art style. There is no contradiction. Although it is ironic me saying all that about taste, but finding HoMM III and even II being way uglier than I.

>For most of artist, most people appretiate them just because they "told" so, that they great. But same with video game graphics, in reality people absoluetly don't understand it, and for most people if allow them told honestely, they will call his art "blurry and bad and not realistic"
What a great non-answer that was. I am asking what you would truly consider to be high art. Like for me, truly high tier games incorporate a large variety of elements so it isn't just any one component including aesthetics, and sadly a good many of the truly great ones were already usually drawing on a massive trove of background for example KOTOR or VTMB or Planescape Torment all of which came from truly well fleshed out worlds, and by well fleshed out I mean the foundational material was worked on for decades by tons of people in some instances, two of which came from the 1970s and only specifically relied on expanded material from later (Planescape from DnD and KOTOR from EU) whereas VTMB was drawing on a wealth of information created through the 90s. Still what Starcraft managed to do was phenomenal and it never quite felt childish or puerile the way a good number of games do.

I am asking you, then pick your favorite artist or literary genius and tell me which games you find comparable, because CnC Red Alert 1 for example was definitely not it.

>Sorry that I has no time to fully respond to all of your posts right now.
I feel victorious. You are one of the only posters who can out autism me, and frankly probably have a better understanding of various things specifically relating to programming. But what I am saying is, how does the finished product look and behave. Like here is what I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPj9td2IdVY this is I would say where the transition actually looked good.
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No. 6858
418 kB, 1680 × 1050
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>>6853
>You say this as if I wasn't playing WC2 on a PowerMac dude. Or that I was playing actual WC1 back in the days we still used netscape and altavista.

I may congratulate you with fact that you are adult person. Congratulations.

>Besides which I am not talking about those two. I am specifically comparing Starcraft to Warcraft III.

And like why? In therms of style warcraft 3 was direct continuation of warcraft 2. I don't know what you to be expect from warcraft 3, be 2d isometric RTS in 2002 with grim-dark 3d renders that will make this game look like mix of HoMM3 and Diablo or what?

You know that original StarCraft was handpainted and looked more like Warcraft 2 in space, with it's cartoonish style and after first presentations people start complaining "ug-oh this game looks outdated! Orks in space ha-ha!" and other game... I don't remember which, Earth 2140 probably?... or Krush, Kill’n’Destroy? Dosen't matter maded blizzard remade this game from scratch to make this game look MODERN AND COOL, and ended with it's style of 3d renrers, that on decent isometric handpainted terrain looks kinda out of place with this lor-resolution sprite units that even have shitty borders like they was cut out in paint and this 90s "metal" render that look like toy plastic combined with cutscenes that always reminded me fucking redneck rampage. And most of popularity of this game goes from cybersport since balance of this game and variaty of tactics. And this most probably one of reasons, why Blizzard in future will slowely change into Azian market, instead of making your favorite grim dark low resolution 3d renders.
Don't get me wrong, I like Starcraft and nowdays a appretiate how it look and can absoluetly enjoy it, same as all other similar looking games. However, most things you tell are come from actual nostalgia more or less, and not as good in reality.

>They never looked realistic by any stretch of the imagination and frankly I never was a big fan of Westwood either. I didn't really like the bad acting cutscenes style and I think there's a reason literally nobody except them uses it. They also rarely had differences between sides except as a reskin. I liked Dune 2000 and wasted way too much time on CnC but they just never were really great RTS games tbh.

They LOOKED realistic. Tiberian Dawn in 1995 unlike previous real time strategies that was set in 15000 years in future or in fantasy now set in really nearby times, highly impact on modern politics and current wars and situations. All that 90s world with some additional science fiction elements, set in reality of Jugoslavian wars, rise of unstability in middle east, with cutscenes that contain NATO-like officers, maps of real world and info on modern countries, with heavy political jokes and jokes on modern society. This game is where still some conspiracy fans found new things where this PREDICT future.
By "never where really great RTS games" is other pile of shit, they was absoluetly awesome, CnC economy, and CnC style of gameplay was truley interesting thing, allowing much more tactics, freedom and bigger scale than any blizzard strategy. In 90s, CnC was only real competitor of blizzard strategies, and more than that, often did it better Warcraft II was a runner-up for Computer Gaming World's 1995 "Strategy Game of the Year" award, which ultimately went to Command & Conquer and Heroes of Might and Magic (tie).
And while more weak in therms of balance than starcraft, 2nd (third if we count dune2) generation of westwood strategies by all means looked much more great. Using awesomely drawn by sprites and voxels graphics, much more detailed and realistic landscape with actual height (not like "fake" height on flat isometric texture with "blockers") and many many epin gameplay things.
I don't know why you don't familiar with FMV stuff, that was popular in mid-late 90s very much and besides westwood was used a lot in video games. This cinematics evolved, but even from start there was hell lot of them and even in first generation they was better than anything that blizzard can offer. Only in diablo 2 blizzard cutscenes become decent, and ironicly, in Warcraft 3 they become very famous and very "realistic", while all previous blizzard games afford only rare cinematics with that poop-90s plastic render. When in CnC there hell lot of FMV video of nice quality for the time. And in Second generation - in Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 there much more high quality decorations, actual actors, some of which are actually minor, but holywood actors, and all this cuscenes feel like this is okay and enjoyable science fiction b-movies, so your claim about "uh oh bad acting blizz better" is nonsence too. And well, in therms of cutscenes I don't even talk about later EA stuff, EA games are shit, but hell, in RA3 fucking Tim Curry so you can't contr-argument it any way X---DDDD
True that in 00s Westwood lost to Blizzard - and it lost not to actual starcraft, but ironicly again, Warcraft 3. CnC general, even thought it is really great game, miss a lot important things that all fans expected, and was much less popular than warcraft 3. And then Westwood dies and rights go to EA that killed series same way Ubisoft killed Might and Magic. Ironicly, on unreleased Generals 2 project worked father of Might and Magic, Jon Van Canninghem but EA multiple times stabbed project in back and then killed it compleatly as usual
But even after so many times, without any support and long-dead series fans still amking great mods, actul fan games even with help some former official westwood developers, like famous composer Frank Klepaki. And for 10 years fans devloping totally awesome opensource engine for 1st adn 2nd generation CnC strategies, improving balance and overall gameplay and compibility with modern systems. And Starcraft fans can enjoy another crappy addon for cartoonish starcraft 2 that cost hell lot of monies, avalible only in anal blizzard cancer store and about which care only koreans, chienes and other kinds of far east people without life while CnC-lords will have another Red Alert 1 tournament on OpenRA X----DDDDD

Long things short and without jokes: you most probably say all this things just because you are Starcraft fan with a lot of nostalgia about this game, which is obviously great, but you see it thought pink glasses and absoluetly unobjectivly say bad things about other objectivly great games that have giant communities, great reception and count as true classic for personal reasons
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No. 6859
5,3 MB, 4000 × 4000
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>and even II being way uglier than I.
This is some cosimc level of bullshit, considering that exept units this game share almost all artwork, and hell lot of this artwork, like 85% of all portraits are from Isles of Terra and World of Xeen. And most units adn their animation exept rare one are some really... meh things. By look I assume that on them worked artist who worked on enemies and most of backgrounds for darkside of xeen, but in Heroes I his work was more low quality - and in therms of animation and in therms of form. I Dunno why they dropped handpainted stuff ofver photos background stuff that worked much more well in clouds of xeen backgorund for interiors, however they used kinda same technic for elements of cities for heroes 2, paiting over what was 3d renders, as I assume.

>What a great non-answer that was. I am asking what you would truly consider to be high art.
This was concretical answer: if you ask such things, you will most probably hide to actual reputation and people opinion, when you compare some for centuaries "absoluetly classic" artists and something modern, especialy videogames. Who cares about Leonid Andreev that as I know still not translated to any languages and I founded him just accidently and his "Iuda Iscariot" wihch in my opinion is one of the best russian philosophical prose and one of the best rethinking of classical plot when you have Lev Tolstoi who objectivly was very meh wrighter who just was rich as fuck and had oppotunity to write hell lot of time his 9000 pages of boring shit and then publish it by his own monies.

I can dump whole this thread with art, philosophical ideas and other work of Mikhael Kirkbride for Morrowind, I may hell lot of times say that Morrowind's Elder Scrolls universe are best fictional universe created by man for current moment, and that Kirkbride achived new level of narrative and worldbuilding and with this game was presented true new level of deepnes of creating imagenary world and that all this stuff is one of greatest achivments of human culture in XXI centuary that make step beyond a lot previous forms of art, and by using modern interactive technologies the best way achived by today show from inside all fundamental philosophical problems such as question of existance.

But still, nobody cared about it - classic authors have monolythic reputation in eyes of people. Of cource art is not age and not become outdated, same as philosophical question that most probably will never be answered, but often it just blind people with imaginery perfection of some things, and new things, new wave of actual art often become not understanded by audience, and people start appretiate it as it should be only in many many many years in future. It allways happened like that, so I not even bother to answer question about comparing some video game to art of Monet. Ask me this question again in 2118.

>>6844
I not said doom "terrible" at visuals, but design was really minor aspect for developers of that game, same as plot. It become so memorable just because game overall become very famous and currently one of the idols. Objectivly, there nothing that ultra great and design of doom, and even other games in same engine like Heretic and Hexen is on much better level of art, just because in this games devs put more effort in style and art part. Like hell, they used some pictures from books as assets for some textures and weapons like pistol and shotgun are just toys in hands of romero and this photos for sprites they done in like 10 minutes most probably.
Even actual levels serve compleatly utilitaric role of be good by gameplay, and look of them at second. Even if in Doom 1 romero tried make something belivable and progression from space bases to hell all of that look like just "doom labyrinth". Compare it to actual games that put effort instyle and look of levels from art part - like Star Wars Dark Forces that not that far from doom technically and you'll see a huuge gap between them.
And fact that modern doom 2016 has nothing to do with classic doom in therms of gameplay which was most important thing in original doom but still claim himself as something RETRO BACK LIKE IN CLAASIC by actual continuation of visula style that in original was not that much important is very lame thing, considering that there already exist heir of classic doom in gameplay (which is thing that really important) - Quake.
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No. 6860
>>6858
>I may congratulate you with fact that you are adult person. Congratulations.
You have a habit of speaking in a very condescending hipsterish manner, which I find funny when you launch into something as if surely someone must not have played it or be unfamiliar with what you're talking about. I am noting, that I played both in the late 90s. FYI.

>And like why? In therms of style warcraft 3 was direct continuation of warcraft 2. I don't know what you to be expect from warcraft 3, be 2d isometric RTS in 2002 with grim-dark 3d renders that will make this game look like mix of HoMM3 and Diablo or what?
I already said exactly why. Because it just looks worse to me. I'm not even talking about the general aesthetic I specifically mean the way things are rendered.

>You know that original StarCraft was handpainted and looked >>6859
>Monet
more like Warcraft 2 in space
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, although frankly while gameplay itself was inferior to both at least I kinda liked the way WC2 looked.

>And most of popularity of this game goes from cybersport
lolno

Age of Empires was similarly popular. Starcraft just had excellent online support as well. It became such a huge thing because the game itself was good all around. You will notice for instance that WC3 never had the same kind of competitive multiplayer thing too for example.
>CnC economy, and CnC style of gameplay was truley interesting thing, allowing much more tactics, freedom and bigger scale than any blizzard strategy
That's just completely and utterly false, particularly the economy. You had all of one resource to protect and control in Westwood games and the "tactics" largely consisted of unit spam (with not so good pathfinding) and trying to rely mostly on armor because your troopers always got squashed.

>while all previous blizzard games afford only rare cinematics with that poop-90s plastic render.
That is also false. I remember when Broodwars came out we were all amazed by the opening cinematic. Now it looks dated but Starcraft cinematics always were top notch. Actually Blizzard in general had always been known for being good at this.

>Long things short and without jokes: you most probably say all this things just because you are Starcraft fan with a lot of nostalgia about this game, which is obviously great, but you see it thought pink glasses and absoluetly unobjectivly say bad things about other objectivly great games that have giant communities, great reception and count as true classic for personal reasons
This is only half true. I am talking about having the original Red Alert and Command and Conquer. I also had Dark Reign 2, which was pretty great looking in its day but aged poorly and the pathfinding was just godawful. And Age of Empires and Starcraft were just the better games, which required more thought and strategy (although on some level, all RTS back then amounted to unit spam). This used to be my favorite genre before becoming more about 4x, largely due to accessibility (RTS was huge back then just like crpg, 4x not so much except for like Civ and a few others). WC was never my big thing in general and I never liked Westwood games, although only now many years later I got the "more recent" games with much better graphics. When I say Westwood I mostly mean old ones with like 5 pixel soldiers. I also never really got into Age of Empires II for some reason and liked the first one better. Rise of Nations was also possibly the best RTS game so far as I care, but that's just opinion.

>>6859
>all dis shit
Again you fail to answer. I only even said Monet to begin with because you're the one who brought Monet up right here >>6788
>Mods is very complex theme to talk to just metion it like that, same goes with with all this "remasters". People do this mods for different reasons - because some thought that game "dated" or think that they can "improve" it, and often it ended like 5 year old trying to add details to Claude Monet's "Impression, Sunrise".
So?

> and other work of Mikhael Kirkbride for Morrowind, I may hell lot of times say that Morrowind's Elder Scrolls universe are best fictional universe created by man for current moment, and that Kirkbride achived new level of narrative and worldbuilding and with this game was presented true new level of deepnes of creating imagenary world and that all this stuff is one of greatest achivments of human culture in XXI centuary that make step beyond a lot previous forms of art, and by using modern interactive technologies the best way achived by today show from inside all fundamental philosophical problems such as question of existance.
Okay so in other words the answer for you is Morrowind.

>Dark Forces
I don't talk about that game because it makes me really depressed about childhood.

>Even actual levels serve compleatly utilitaric role of be good by gameplay, and look of them at second. Even if in Doom 1 romero tried make something belivable and progression from space bases to hell all of that look like just "doom labyrinth"
Honestly I really think I had a good point before regarding artists and devs compensating. Like Doom was really pixelated but at least it looked good and somehow had a satisfaction to shooting monsters with shotguns in a way few games have ever recaptured. But even still, there is only so much you can do with such things and I suspect there's a reason why now everything is purely about making it look good without the slightest thought to level design, whereas back then you really didn't have much to work with other than designing better level maps because there was no way you could ever make anything look that good. And still I will say that we all knew even back then that things just never looked that fantastic.

Although, Doom and Quake are also very, very good examples of mindless entertainment people would rip on today for being completely and utterly devoid of lore.
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No. 6861
Also Russia how much would you agree with this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmRouEds_2A
And clearly he's talking about Jungian archetypes and Campbell's concept of Hero with a Thousand Faces
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No. 6863
>>6810
It was always advertised as a reboot/reimagining rather than a faithful sequel. It used cultural baggage when it chose the name in that Doom stands for something in gaming syntax. It represents a simpler kind of shooter. You have some guns and some demons and you go to town. There is more to the original game, but it's irrelevant to the proposed design which sought to capture that aspect. Their idea was to capture this sort of zeitgeist of Doom and what it represented against the backdrop of modern shooters and an increasing focus on plot, not to create the less linear Doom game of the 90s.

Again, it never screamed about being 'classic' Doom. It made references to the older games but it never said it was trying to emulate the old style. It was reimagining it. Even the soundtrack deliberately avoided a purely guitar riff style because they wanted to invoke the idea that even if some old lines of music cropped up here and there, it was a new take on the old, it was not the old thing itself and the use of heavy bassy electronic music was intended to add a more modern touch to the soundtrack also and bring home that it was not the classic Doom but a new one.

I'm not going to bother anymore since we speak on different wavelengths, you speak as a player (while often seeming to assume that I'm not one) while I'm trying to talk about the underlying theory of game design and how its been applied. The difference is for example that while from a player perspective Morrowind might be great, from a design perspective it fails in many ways. You say that the dice rolling is good for it while it is counterintuitive to have a real time first person fight in 3d where the blade can sometimes pass through the enemy and not register a hit. The mechanic tries to fight human nature (I hit it, why didn't it register) and while you can get used to it, it's not great from a design perspective and there is a reason that later games moved away from it that isn't the strawman of people being dumb. Another good one in the game is that running drains stamina. Great idea and makes sense, except it means that the fun option of getting to see more of the world and complete more quests is punished while spending 20+ more minutes doing nothing but looking at a vista with a poor view distance is rewarded by always having the stamina to fight. It might be more realistic, but does it actually add anything to the game? Or is it just busywork that creates 'gotcha' moments? Sometimes a rules lite system works better than a crunchy one, I mean those who want to walk everywhere for roleplay will do so whether it gives them an advantage or not and those who don't want to do that and want to focus on the action won't be punished for playing your game that's all about player choice in a way that you don't want them to.
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No. 6875 Kontra
>>6863
>I'm not going to bother
I'm not going to bother you

Proofreading is important :-D
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No. 6967
187 kB, 650 × 376
82 kB, 555 × 565
A question for wargame enthusiasts here:
What are some strategy games set during the Battle of France where you can play as the french?
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No. 6968
>>6967
I've only played TOAW that'd let you do it in those scenarios and it won't be easy. Outside of things like Hearts of Iron which I don't include in the same wargame category. Strategic Command WWII is sort of in between from what I've seen and I've read good things though, don't know how viable surviving in 1940 on the continent is in that game though.
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No. 6969
>>6968
Alright, but since you are here, what operational level games can you recommend? I hav recently experienced a revival in my interest in gaming and would like to play a good strategy game.
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No. 6970
>>6860
This dialogue ended in coninious loop and honestely, I stay on position that I for long time not count as right - I like Starcraft and Heroes 3, I just wanted to show you how it felt to me when I had same opinions as you have now. What can I recommend from mine experience - try to get into things that you not like and not understand, and try to break this threshold of occurrence and get into games that you had problems with - it is the best way to get fresh experience, find something new fоr yourself and make some self-development.
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No. 6974
>>6969
The ones I'd most recommend are like $100 each, so probably not for you if you're just wanting to dip your toe in (War in the Pacific AE, War in the East, War in the West, CMANO). TOAW4 is a lot of quality of life addons to 3 and is pretty affordable for what you get though so I'd recommend that. Very moddable too and has a pretty massive community of scenario designers so there is lots of extra content if you get through the base game's scenarios.
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No. 6985
On recent gamescom there was a lot news and trailers

Mount and Blade 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4rC1awiovs
New Metro gameplay - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OStgUx6fYD8
Just cause 4 memes with tornado - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OStgUx6fYD8
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No. 6989
391 kB, 2560 × 2013
>>6861
I watched this like for 30 seconds and this is total cringe.

>>6863
>Again, it never screamed about being 'classic' Doom.
They done it, from first trailer where was OHH CLASSIC DOOR SOUND OPEN AND OOH MY GOOD CLASSIC RAVERANT - and like majority of "fans" actualy screaming about this as CLASSIC DOOM BACK and this is major part of their commercial campain, same as with new Doom Eternal they even increaced this factor by making even more CLASSIC monsters

>you speak as a player (while often seeming to assume that I'm not one) while I'm trying to talk about the underlying theory of game design and how its been applied

I dunno why you think that I talk about everything as PLAYER, while about Doom stuff I talk mostly about id style of game and leveldesign that was most important parts of game - not "ha ha cool musak" or "it's goore!!!XDDD" (however it is funny doom not as gore as people say for some reason, there was hell lot of games that was hell more bloody. For example it is Duke Nuckem 3d that had famous brutal death animations combined with some stuff from Blood, and years later only someone maded "brutal" mod for doom and it's popular as hell among young people now) or "doom is the plot and style!". Combination of technology they developed and effective usage of their technology (for example bethesda that in mid 90s had best technological advantage with XNgine never managed to use it 100% right on max power) with this famous id formula of navigation, tasks, traps, monster bestiary, how they recognisable, look and work together with weapon and pick-ups system. And this why I think Quake is actual sequel to Doom because it use absoluetly same formula, but with newer technologies managed to improve it radically in all ways - with combad, leveldesighn, movment, monsters and their abilities etc.

Maybe you will tell me your secrets about GAME THEORY where I'am not correct here.

>The mechanic tries to fight human nature (I hit it, why didn't it register) and while you can get used to it, it's not great from a design perspective and there is a reason that later games moved away from it that isn't the strawman of people being dumb.
You know that this is RPG genre, and that all RPG games, even real time ones in that time and before used this system, because it is actual meaning and fun of this genre? And before, when all people understand that RPG is RPG never asked a question about it. I never seen a single complain about combat mechanics in Ultima underworld, daggerfall or even tilebased game in real time. But since morrowind had nice graphics for time a lot people thought that this is action adventure game. And considering that ARPG genre DEAD now and people play "action adventure games with RPG elements" that call themselfs ARPG and never familiar with RPG games - they thought that Morrowind same as skyrim or witcher 3.

Let me ask you - if someone go to turn based RPG, or some paradox-like game and than will start complain WHY ME CAN NOT BUILD BARRAKS TO MAKE ORKS AND GO FIGHT? WHY IT'S TURN BASED ITS AGAINST HUMAN NATURE!! - what do you answer?

And yes, this games become RETARDED, and aimed for more dumb people. When classic RPG and even ARPG games had it's RPG-fans audience, like daggerfall was clearly aimed for wierd audience who dreamed about rouglikes in 3d, modern games that call themselfs ARPG are mostly console-like action adventure games, sometimes with some rare RPG elements and orientated on consoles.

>Another good one in the game is that running drains stamina. Great idea and makes sense, except it means that the fun option of getting to see more of the world and complete more quests is punished while spending 20+ more minutes doing nothing but looking at a vista with a poor view distance is rewarded by always having the stamina to fight.

Well, ongratulation if you have low stamina - there 9000 veraints how to improve it. It is obvious that your starting character need SUCK at least at something, that there be motivation to progress and update - and Morrowind one of that games that on every task it make so many different opportunities to become more powerfull - potions, spells, enchant, improvment of actual skills and attributes. Yes, stamina add a lot in game - this is one of the mechanics played need to deal with, it is important thing that make hand-to-hand combat fun and allot a lot things like spells and weapons that drain stamina from enemies and allow you to hit them while they lie on ground and can't you do shit about it. And vanilla view distance is more than enough - if you not playing on minimals of cource. I say this because I play most times without distand land.

Morrowind have some mechanics that work not that well, but this is just BUGS like bad values for some things or some mechanics work not as intended and all that was fixed by fan patches years and years ago.

>I mean those who want to walk everywhere for roleplay will do so whether it gives them an advantage or not and those who don't want to do that and want to focus on the action won't be punished for playing your game that's all about player choice
What a pile of crap? I don't see why MORROWIND PUNISH one players or other for different styles of game. Every style of play more than playable and this is one of that games tha allow anything and there so many things to improve. Only disadvantage of this game that it is handmaded, not generated randomley about loot and enemies exept some monsters and crates levelled lists, and if you playing 2nd or third time it is task for you to not become FUCKING ULTRA-GOD-KILLER-OF-ANYTHING accidently.

All your complains not GAMEDESIGNER MOMENTS - it is complains of Action-adventure player who accidetaly run into different genre and complaing about this game work slightly different that he want to. And problem that all IMPROVMENTS you talk about CUT """""""""USELESS""""""""" MECHANICS is what majority of human console trash complained and result is that genre become dead - because in such big AAA ope world games nobody interested in actual RPG elements, since majority of audience is much more casual that RPG fans.

I recommed you just go back in your action adventures and play genre that you feel "right" to yourself and stop trying to "fix" different genre with your "adviced". I don't know what you already need from ARPG fans, our genre is dead long ago, people like you - won, you can easely enjoy your Kindom's Come or Mass Effect or Fallout 4 that has no USELESS MECHANICS or BAD GAMEDESIGNER DECIDIONS and playing VERY INTUITIVE with their Press X to win and shooter-arcade combat and mechanics.
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No. 6998
>>6989
I also said it was reimagining Doom, no? There is also a concept in game design that refers precisely to this, resonance. It basically means using your audience's prior knowledge to help explain things or capture their attention. Using older enemy designs and references to old sound effects are ways of letting the viewer immediately recognise it as something to do with that IP, and most people think of the Doom 1/2 style when that's thought of and not Doom 3 (which is an even bigger departure from the original style at that). What players say has nothing to do with the game itself.

Level design is easy to understand as a player. It's what the player plays in. They understand what makes a good level for a game in many cases. Game design looks at it from the other direction and starts not at the game is of X genre so Y is good but at the premise which predates even the implementation of basic gameplay. Doom began as an action-hero/adrenaline kind of game and then was built towards making that vision come to life with the various mechanics chosen or ignored because they worked towards or against the chosen goal. RNG-based hit registration would have deducted from it and was scrapped, while fast-moving shooting and hordes of enemies captured the idea.

The basics of thinking in terms of Game Design is to ask twenty times more 'why' questions than any other kind.

RPG as a genre predates PC by nearly two decades and both diceless and non-combat systems exist. I can even point you to an RPG supplement designed to allow a group to play as executives in a boardroom. PC RPGs 'dumbed down' the genre from the get-go.

The difference between a real time and turn based RPG is that the latter doesn't have the visceral feeling of aiming and swinging your weapon, seeing it hit and then the cockblock of nothing happening. It doesn't make sense for a spear to go into a guy's chest and do nothing. Notice that nobody complains about it in the magic system being die rolled? That's because it doesn't have the same viscerality or real-world logic to it. In turn based games, you're not usually aiming and swinging the weapon in real time and seeing it connect but rather choosing an option and seeing it happen. There is a disconnect with the player that allows more abstraction. Stamina could easily have been adjusted to be impactful in combat without needing to slow the rest of the game down for no benefit. Walking in a straight line doing nothing for 10-20 minutes is not engaging gameplay and having to do something unfun shouldn't be an important part of the game unless you find it fun, hence people who want to do it will, while people who don't care for that particular aspect aren't penalised for not playing the exact way the devs want them to.

Also, intuitive doesn't mean shallow. TOAW is very intuitive. Point and click to move. Numbers are attack and defense and the little coloured square is green for good and goes down to red for bad and represents fighting condition. It's actually a lot deeper than that but it's very simple to pick up and play. Just very hard to pick up and play well.
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No. 6999
600 kB, 725 × 725
174 kB, 1422 × 408
103 kB, 600 × 778
60 kB, 800 × 451
>>6998
>it as something to do with that IP,
Because exept style that again, in original was least important thing after non-existen plot this game has nothing to do with original games

>Doom 3 (which is an even bigger departure from the original style at that).
Doom 3 is absoluetly different game. Like with Quake2-3 post-Romero id used same recognisable name to their new technical showcase so it will sell great. However if we start about style and plot that nobody cares in doom, Doom 3 look really best and I like his approach of really belivable DEMONS in Science fiction as possible as they could done it instead most silly style that new doom done with "COMPUTER DETECTS DEMON ACTIVITY xDDDDD ALL DEMONS GO TO REST ROOMS!! UH-OH COLLECT ALL DOOM MARINE TOYZZZ!!". And at least Doom 3 was still faithfull to original games in therms of be innovative technologically, and Doom 2016 eeh not much.

>Level design is easy to understand as a player. It's what the player plays in. They understand what makes a good level for a game in many cases. Game design looks at it from the other direction and starts not at the game is of X genre so Y is good but at the premise which predates even the implementation of basic gameplay. Doom began as an action-hero/adrenaline kind of game and then was built towards making that vision come to life with the various mechanics chosen or ignored because they worked towards or against the chosen goal. RNG-based hit registration would have deducted from it and was scrapped, while fast-moving shooting and hordes of enemies captured the idea.

There I don't know what the fuck of crap are you talking about, and I assumed it is mine english style is bad or it is actually bad mine understandment of it - one of two.
Original doom was not ULTRA FAST HORDES OF ENEMIES - it was more or less crappy doom 2 with shitty levedesign and breaking rules enemies andPlutonia experiment with their 900000 monsters on map. Original doom expet bosses have 7 types of enemies (if we not count spectre as separate). Each of then can be distinquish by overall shape or sound it makes. This is main meaning of design in original game - serve purpose of direct gameplay instrument). Each of monsters have it's speed, health and abilities. Zombies are slow and weak, but they are hitscan enemies. Zombie shotgunners even do more damage, but they still low health. Imp have more health and projectile firebal that you can avoid if you skilled, however it is more speedy and can go change to a close combat with death made by claws. Pinkey has no range attacks, but have great speed and attack in melee, his variant spectre is almost invisible. Lost soul and cacodemon are fling monters with more ability of movment. Lost soul weak, but very speedy, attack with wery speed run directly into player in melee. cacodemon is slow, but it is very big and easy to spot, that fire projectiles but have much more HP. And in end, final moster - Big baron of hell, red guy that you recognise immideatly and that serve purpose of half-boss. With a lot HP and big damage, it is collosus that always main guy in party.
Doom is not SPEEDY and ULRTRA GORE, espessialy if you playing original, with original controls, and often how people done it - without mouse with original keyboard configuration on original machine and with original 24FPS and resolution. Parts of levels designed and filled with monsters such way, to provide you challenge. All already metioned bestiary of mosnters is best multi-purpose instrument that you can play with. It is like language - you have set of letters, all recognisable and you can build billions of words from them that all be unique, but still readable for someone who know all that small set of sybols. Combinations of monsters will always get interesting results if sone right. And if you make level work with them and increase their danger or decreace where it neccecery to provide moderate and interesting challange, but not rule breaking hard - you will get good level and gamedesign. You enter room by sound and look you immideatly recognise monsters - there are 2 or 3 zombieman and imp placed in cage slightly up. You need to kill zombies with hitscan first, because they will do damage to you if you not do it, and because they are clother and have less hp. But you need avoid imp attacks - he can't move to you, but he can shoot slow fireballs that you need to keep eye one and you can't kill him immideatly because he have more hp and he is more far from you. Well, you can try but you defenetly will loose some HP from zombie attacks. But developer can add a barrel to cage with imp so you can kill it more quickly and this make different tactical situation. This what original doom was about - you go in room, you spot group of enemies, you choose tactic from your current situation and immideatly execute it. To add more, there overall level of leveldesign, because levels in doom not set of rooms - they are actual solid labyrinths that you can explore. They complex, but enough to navigate without places where it is hard or you stuck because lost. A lot places also buildad way you will easely remember them and use as points. Many weapons, objects, objectives for such games all serve as tool to multyply all what was previously said to even more increase variability and fun - barrels, elevators, teleports, moving walls. There also exploring elemnt for secrets. And adittionaly, on top of that there are ability to play all this levels FAST - memorise path and every level can be beated in number around 30 seconds or faster, and adittional difficulty "nightmer" provide to experienced players new level of challenge by breaking previously set rules to make this speedrunnig more fast. This game looks simple, but every bit of technological ability, every bit of of content there used for same puropse - to provide recognisable gameplay, that easy to pick up for person, and with it's limied abilities maximum complex and maximum interesting, but same time logical and don't hanything out of place and all have it's purpose. This is called "id game formula" and this is what they thought is best for the first person shooter. This why actual artistic equvivalent of game, same as plot was not that much important, also because it is was shareware game from very small studio.
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No. 7000
>>6999

I dunno what you may add about your "gamedesigner secrets" when I described WHOLE DOOM already as argument.

Doom 2016 in many ways feels like small cargo cult. It like if you ask teenager or kid why he loves classic doom - he most probably can't recognise and make summary like one I maded before, which is GAMEDESIGNER information and he will go with PLAYER information - GUNZ LOOK COOL! THERE ALSO MARS (tbh there was no mars in classic doom lol) AND COOL EVIL DEMONS AROUND! AND I REMEMBER THEIR NAMES AND I HAVE PAINTINGS OF THEM IN MY ROOM! AND DOOM GUY, HE ROCK AND ALSO THERE A LOT OF BLOOD!!!
And this is basicly what Doom 2016 is - it have hell lot of similarities in style, which inoriginal was to be insturment of gameplay and there added for "nostalgia". It try to make similar level layouts but levels much more primitive and there not much smart placed encounters and not very interesting exploration, more than that - game go most times to just primitive "arenas" which is most primitive instrument of "encounter" and it like in most modern games just hided with level of detalisation of enivorment - al lthis fancy 3d models and efects that hide how primitive level is. Monsters have some abilites and visuals, but exept some occasions they not work as perfect as was in original - espessialy considering all this upgrades system. Most time of game there no perfect sence of your power and power of monsters because it always changing balance and most times there too much fast shit on screen and you just inside big hordes of meat that you shoot at, with like summoner and shield guy you take attention at. More wide but not concretical mechanics allow a lot tactics that very cheesy. Most of levels can not be done by classic speedrun and from start speedrunning of this game was more like find bugs that break collision. "plot" even if tying to put some jokes about "plot was not important!!" is some places make player stuck for some time, from which you will have "eastern black mesa" effect.

And I don't talk even about all that joke story with Doom 2016 level editor.

I'll respond to second part of the post tomorrow.
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No. 7006 Kontra
1,5 MB, 1366 × 768
>>7000
They're not secrets. You can quite literally read a book about this stuff, or watch talks on these topics on the GDC youtube page. I've never claimed them to be secrets, you're the only one trying to make them out to be because it fits the image of me you've conjured up from the second I lay a little bit of criticism on an old game and a little bit of praise on a new one. The 'go back to your X, Y, Z YOBA games' bit gave it away, pretty funny accusation considering my actual taste in games but hey. Don't worry about replying to the rest. If it's just going to be more of the same 'you're casual for disliking elements of older games' then it's not worth posting. You've made that point a dozen times in this thread already. No need to make it again.
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No. 7036 Kontra
>>7006
I'd wanted to make second part of the post but after it - most probably not. I wanted to make actual post about how morrowind mechanics works, and how you need play that game and why classic computer RPG is NOT tabletop RPG games even thought they was inspired by them in first place - but now has no actual interest in it. If you don't want hear anything I talk about, I don't want spend time on "disscution" where talk only I with myself. Your complains about Morrowind is complains about someone, who compleatly unfamiliar with series and genre (yes, your days in DnD not count there) - and all your problems with that is problems of noobie who don't get even basic things and hitted threshold of occurrence, and all your complains is what already was "fixed" in more modern games that now maded for different people and different audience.
I advise to you take your books with "gamedesighn knwolege", all your pictures about "simulators" that you use to show how "smart" you are, and all your "advises" how to fix "non working outdated game" and get off and never touch or talk about classic computer RPG anymore, or untill time where you actually want to learn mechanics and how to stop suck in game instead of screaming that this is game fault and this is not "intuitive" and all that bullshit.
Untill that, I has no any motivation to make big posts for narcissistic person who show complete disrespect for my favorite genre and count his opinion higer than anyone else just because he readed some crappy books, which was considering qulity of your complains - total bullshit. I'am sorry to be so rude, but I have extermely low opinion on people like this, and in my opinion people like you and death of actuall classic PC game industry is two reasons why games and series that I love exist now only in near-indie segment or now exist at all.
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No. 7075 Kontra
>>7036
You made the claim that dice rolling mechanics are necessary for an RPG. That is demonstrably false because the purest form of RPG (paper) has multiple ways to go about it so that they're not required at all. Don't make sweeping claims that dice rolling is required for an rpg because rpg actually has a definition and it's not 'computer game of certain mechanical style', it was a paper genre for nearly 20 years before it came to PC. You can't claim the tradition route when claim that tradition isn't valid when it makes a point you don't like.

>narcissistic
Classy coming from the guy whose first accusation to anybody who doesn't like what he likes is that they haven't played the game because obviously his taste is universal (protip, I've finished Morrowind multiple times, and I've played Wizardry and M&M and Ultima and so on, they're not that hard). I also recall you freaking out at somebody wanting to talk about Overwatch a while back, and calling someone up the thread 'iq 55' because they disagreed with your opinion on something. Glass houses mang, glass houses. And don't blame the state of your favourite genre on 'people like me', you don't know me. You've got this image of me being some YOBA game pro who plays and loves all the latest AAA games and it's just rubbish. You don't want discussion at all, you want unconditional adoration for the games you like and unconditional dislike for games you don't and anybody who doesn't fit that category you classify as 'cancer'. If you actually wanted discussion, you'd take a less condescending tone with people and avoid all the browbeating you've done in the past. It's not cool that you talk shit about what everybody else plays, calling them cancer and idiots etc. but then turn around and act like the victim when someone has enough and decides to say something back. If you want a respectful tone coming back to you, you can start by putting a respectful tone out. I get enough bullshit in real life, and I'm done putting up with it on the one haven I've got.

Damn that felt good to get off my chest. Been sitting there for months.
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No. 7095
19 kB, 226 × 240
>>7075
>You made the claim that dice rolling mechanics are necessary for an RPG. That is demonstrably false because the purest form of RPG (paper) has multiple ways to go about it so that they're not required at all. Don't make sweeping claims that dice rolling is required for an rpg because rpg actually has a definition and it's not 'computer game of certain mechanical style', it was a paper genre for nearly 20 years before it came to PC. You can't claim the tradition route when claim that tradition isn't valid when it makes a point you don't like.

I siad you five times, that even thought computer RPG have it's origins in pen and paper ones, which is fucking obvious and don't lcaim that I dumb enough to don't know it. But again, they become not a "continuation" of a genre because it is obvious that even most modern computers now can't properly emulate that experience that you got when you play with alive dungeon master and with real life people, thought your rulebook and created characters that serve only as minor instrument to simulate advanture.

It is not possible, so all computer RPG was all about this "instrument" - actual meaning of computer computer RPG games become their roleplaying system and control of your character(s) not directly with your skill, but thought their skills and their abilities. And this things is what divided RPG games from all any other video game genres. You know, that all other "true meanings" of RPG is most foggy and uncertain descriptions? All other features that tabletop RPG provide besides their roleplaying systems are presented in almost all other genres? PLAYING ROLE/DIALOGUES/ADVENTURE - this therms you may apply to absolute every game. Call in video games RPG only games that have concretic mechanics - in only concretic way to highlight this games from all other. Today almost all games call themself RPG one way or anyther. Word "RPG" now means absoluetly nothing, besides fact that sometimes in this games there some rare choose, sometimes openworld, sometimes there some characters, maybe collectables but basicly you can call every bullshit RPG now and everybody will be okay with it. And if you ask about "what is RPG" person who apply this therm to every 2nd game he will answer almost like you - RPG is ADVENTURE!
We have two ways now - or I allpy to TRUE CLASSIC PC RPG GAMES WITH HIGH EMPACT OF ROLE-PLAYING SYSTEM different than RPG therm, and since this day therm "RPG" in video games is absolute bullshit crap that means absoluetly nothing and be in same corner as similar meaningless therms as "blast processing" or "SOUL" amd I will never touch this therm ever again in my fucking life, or we stop call EVERY FUCKING VIDEO GAME AN RPG so we can actualy have more concretical genre.

>protip, I've finished Morrowind multiple times, and I've played Wizardry and M&M and Ultima and so on, they're not that hard
I don't know how you played, but what I was triggered was is your description of "morrowind problems" are broblems of actuall noobie who played game only 10 minutes after action-adventures. All that dummie questions of "walk slow, how to hit, how to make spells, how to find quests" - all that problems that new players not familiar with old RPG have. And after like half an hour, if people have brain and willpoer to play, he resolve all that problems and start enjoying all that mechanics, playing with different skills, abilities and artifacts and have full-time fun because (at least with balance pathes) all mechanics in morrowind work and more than playable. I don't know how you played morrowind, put probably, not very well since you still asking this questions.
And yes, all other TES series games that come after morrowind is dumb. By lore, universe and knowlege they was very heavely simplified for different audience and from daggerfall to fallout 4 you may clearly see path how all mechanics and all aspects of games was simplified, to shift from more ature audience to console-casual audience. And things you PROPOSED in you post to CHANGE in morrowind is basicly what bethesda done in ther later games and this make them to become just action-adventure games with some action advanture elements, in all ways as RPG inferior to morrowind. Other thing is triggered me is how you describe all your claims as "knowlege of gamedesigner books" that automaticly make your words more "true" than mine and claim all main thoughts as some "player subjective things", however in reality it is your post what is filled with "player subjective things".

>you want unconditional adoration for the games you like
Objectivly MM6-8 is outdated at their time, in many times primitive in plot and exept maybe 7 have not very big replayability and without fan patches it's better even not touch them at all if you not fan of it. Arena and daggerfall is hardly playable empty unfinished games, that in some ways tried to copy ultima underworld elements that not crealry fit and they more technological achivments that actual GAMES. MM9 is trash, absoluetly unfinished, buggy and in many ways not very fun to play unless you ultra fan of series. Morrowind have terrible engine that bethesda uses to same this day, with not best colission and bad perfomance, with AI issues that will be solved only im upcoming fan enginge for game, and thought lore of this game and mechanics are truley awesome, it is clearly obvious that bethesda will never recover after major part of their technical people and old leaders leaved company with their important technologies and ideas. I never denied it, and what I want is that people objectivly appretiate good parts of this games, and don't create false "bad issues" when this "issues" problmes not of the games, but of actual player.

>and calling someone up the thread 'iq 55' because they disagreed with your opinion on something.
You can remember one of three or two russian posters and distinguish them on very slow imageboard, not an achivment. I described in ginat posts in answers what I meaned by my claims, but looks like nobody readed them as usual.

>If you want a respectful tone coming back to you, you can start by putting a respectful tone out. I get enough bullshit in real life, and I'm done putting up with it on the one haven I've got.
I run in fear!
tell me, first worlder, what suffering do you have in your truley hard куфд life in western country?
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No. 7112 Kontra
>>7095
And I've also said it that many times. RPG as a genre is bigger than computer RPGs, so making statements like "because it is actual meaning and fun of this genre" is not only wrong (it stands for Role Playing Game, not Dice Rolling and Stat Game) but repeatedly so.

>I don't know how you played
Then why do you make condescending statements like these?
>I wanted to make actual post about how morrowind mechanics works, and how you need play that game
>or untill time where you actually want to learn mechanics and how to stop suck in game
>I don't know how you played morrowind, put probably, not very well since you still asking this questions.

The Daggerfall bit is interesting. You slipped it in there back up the thread, but never devoted any real time in a level-headed look at the game in favour of grandiose claims of it pushing the limits of imagination etc. Where was the bit that said it was an unfinished garbage fire then? Instead you give it a short paragraph saying it's a bit unfinished underneath praising it as the second coming of Christ. If it is in fact so close to unplayable, why do you lump so much praise on it?

>And things you PROPOSED in you post to CHANGE in morrowind is basicly what bethesda done in ther later games and this make them to become just action-adventure games with some action advanture elements, in all ways as RPG inferior to morrowind
ENOUGH with the CAPS. It makes you sound like a genuine spastic. Also, what I proposed was to make an intuitive system with depth, remember how I used TOAW as an example? Simple on top but each chit is actually broken down to individual trucks and squads and artillery pieces etc. That extra mile is there for those who care and it does give an advantage, but it's also not entirely necessary for someone to check all the numbers. That's a very good design where all parties get what they want from it. What if instead of rolling to hit, they instead worked on the different kinds of damage that weapons could create? Expand on the different attacks that weapons had and look at how damage works rather than 'yeah you did just put a spear clean through the guy's chest and all but it's not even going to register as a hit'.

>Other thing is triggered me is how you describe all your claims as "knowlege of gamedesigner books" that automaticly make your words more "true" than mine and claim all main thoughts as some "player subjective things", however in reality it is your post what is filled with "player subjective things".
>however in reality it is your post what is filled with "player subjective things"
And what makes your claim so truthful and mine so false? The fact that it came out of your mouth?

>You can remember one of three or two russian posters and distinguish them on very slow imageboard, not an achivment. I described in ginat posts in answers what I meaned by my claims, but looks like nobody readed them as usual.
What does that have to do with you acting like a cunt to these other people? Answer to that. Where do you get off talking shit to other people while getting offended when someone shoots it back? The reason nobody bothers to read them further is because you take a shitty tone and insult people in the first lines of them. Folks tend to just cut their losses after a certain point and just assume it'll be more of the same.

>I run in fear!
It wasn't a strongarm or anything like that and I have no idea how you managed to interpret it as such. It was just a statement that you complain about how nobody wants to have a discussion and how people are acting like assholes to you, but the reason it happens is because you act like an asshole to the people you apparently want to discuss things with. If you want people to actually bother with a proper discussion, you need to change the tone from screaming random phrases in caps and calling people cancer or retard etc.

I can tell that this is just going to continue in loops of you calling me a retard in various ways and then wondering why you don't get niceties back. So why don't we drop it and let the nice people go about their browsing in peace, eh?
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No. 7119
>>7112
>Then why do you make condescending statements like these?
It was obvious answer that you played BAD, and I dunno how it possible if you "beated it several times" maybe in english it not works

>And I've also said it that many times. RPG as a genre is bigger than computer RPGs, so making statements like "because it is actual meaning and fun of this genre" is not only wrong (it stands for Role Playing Game, not Dice Rolling and Stat Game) but repeatedly so.
Sixt time:
Video Game RPG =/= tabletop RPG
One have origin in other, and back in time used similar mechanics, but there 100% similarity ends? and it use same name just because continuation back when was created first RPG vidja. I'd used different term for them if I had opportunity, but it is what we all stuck with historicly. Same as with all anthropomorphic animas stuff become furry

>The Daggerfall bit is interesting. You slipped it in there back up the thread, but never devoted any real time in a level-headed look at the game in favour of grandiose claims of it pushing the limits of imagination etc. Where was the bit that said it was an unfinished garbage fire then? Instead you give it a short paragraph saying it's a bit unfinished underneath praising it as the second coming of Christ. If it is in fact so close to unplayable, why do you lump so much praise on it?

I said that it is unfinished compare to what it suposed to be, very repeative game that sadly lack content. This is not that game if you want heavely plot-orientated game that very polished and provide you a lot unique content. This game have giant constructed from blocks by generator dungeons, constructed from blocks generated cities, and exept main quest, mainquest dungeons and major places that was handmade, had randomley generated quests for all other factions. This quests have actual story, but their goal and location change every time and there like 12-20 "teamplates" for each faction that they use. This game is truley awesome technologicaly for it's time, awesome as roleplaying system, atmosphere and music, ideas and lore you can find in it, but lack of hand made content and even generated content not as finished as it wanted to be. Basicly, released game is technical build that contain not even third part of features they wanted to put into it, and for many casual players who expect game like morrowind this game go pretty boring - they thought it's "empty" and honestely besides mainquest and some minor stuff like Daedra artifact quets it is true, since they not even finished proper landscape, not maded port cities and even roads between this cities, game has no enough differences and unique content, all regional-specific hadmaided political quests was cut and all that stuff that make "game" as actual "game", and a lot of this features of game is unused - for example you absoluetly don't need to talk to NPC besides quetgivers who use more simple system at all. You most probably will not like it game at all because this unfinished first person real time roguelike is something very far from typical adventure. But this game have community and with new engine and modding ability I hope one day there will be high quality overhaull project to restore daggerfall as it meant to be. Tbh I not saying it is unplayable by any mean - this game even in vanilla with final patches (tbh daggerfall is officially free now, and on UESP - oldest 1996 TES wiki (which articles about lore now suffer greatly because TES Online now canon officialy and this MMO not cares about any lore at all, even of latest TES games but this is different question) http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Files - DagerfallSetup.exe version have latest fan and official patches. You can uncheck fan-questpacks during installation and get most playable and patched vanilla with least amount of bugs, and this version recommended to play with DagerfallUnity engine. Dagerfall is interesting that even as default it have Ultima Underworld controls, you can configurate mouse and all keys to make controls absoluetly modern, expet famous dagerfall swing-blades mechanic) if you get all what game say you and readed manual - it is not hard to play all mainquest and all sidequests, explore world and all that things without critical bugs and major problems.
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No. 7120
2,0 MB, 1600 × 900
>And what makes your claim so truthful and mine so false? The fact that it came out of your mouth?
Because it is not more easy is to make character from start and than use skills you placed as major. In start you choose in which direction you want orientate and boost skills you will use at start parts of this game. You may choose almost every of them because game offer alternatives, and from all your complains I understand that you or not porperly used them, or have false memories, or not used your primary skills. This is nothing more easy in morrowind to boost your speed, increase your hit chance, have help with navigation and so on. You don't need to walk 20 minutes from one part to other - you may make create character with big Speed and athletics, or you may use spells and scrolls to restore your fatigue and increase speed, or you have even more easy option to go alchimist and create ultra-powerfull potions that will compenste all things before, adittionaly you have enchant that do basicly same and better, and I don't count there hell lot of unique items and artifacts around game, and if you explore world you have chances to become unkillable terminator almost from start. Tbh even if your fatigue low, with big skill of weapong (like long blade - you will still have great chance to kill against enemies with lower agility with skill around ~50, and if you choosed to specialise on agility and strenght and actual long blade, it is not hard to reach this almost from start of the game). Game also insted instant teleportation that called "fast trevel" (fast trevel was in daggerfall, but belive me, it is absoluetly different mechanics for absoluetly different game and it was not that simple and also Must-have in TES2 and like absoluetly necessery in Arena) which will be in later TES games - yse silt strider ports, ship travels, mages guild teleportation system link, some magical rings that have teleportation abilities, and mark/recall in form of enchantment, scroll and spell, so you will see actula progress - when you start kinda slow most of times if you not created speedy character, you will most often end like jumping all across island and teleport immidetaly, same time levitate all across and same time shooting thousands of fireballs. And this is not a joke - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whz-LQlbI-U yes this is really possible to have such thing in game without cheats And even more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRTUReLBWHA. And you need all in game, in add-ons there high level enemies that requre you this you want kill all of them on higest difficulty, lol. Like there a joke enemy in tribunal with 777 luck. And vanilla draw distance if it is on max not that low compare to even modern ggames, it is just has no "LODs" if you know what I mean but mods on LODs avalible for very long time if you want as much view distance, as you want. But I oftem playing with normall and have no problems at all, I see all what I need too and far enough. Morrowind one of this rare games that offer 9000 mechanics and all of them works and may be used for something by player. Hell, there are tow idfferent invisibility effects and both of them uselfull! This what make this game better than daggerfall in some ways - in Dagerfall hell lot of mechanics not needed at all, there - all used, one way or another, and they provide you that fun and abilities that adventure games will never do. Like have 25 different rigns with ultra crazy enchantments, 100 custom spells with wierd effects, have like 1000 potions you maded yourself with multiple effects, all in artifact armor with super funny enchantments, ability to wear your character as you like, from armor and clothes to robes and hats that you can wear same time, start as you want and finish as god or roleplay and restrict yourself, making custom class and choose your personal path. The only restrictions starting when you start playing on maximum +100 difficulty (game have difficulty bar from -100 to +100) and it better to have more strong combat character on start but on lower difficulties you may start as absolute nothing with most wierd custom class and bad sighn/race. Morrowind provide so many options, roleplaying fun, adventure and exploring that none of other later TES games provide. Even most useless at first look Attronach sign that makes your life somehow harder with mana refresh, it actually absoluetly awesome thing for slightly different style of playthought. Related video :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXIIyttG9Nw

>ENOUGH with the CAPS.
I don't know other way how to put attention on what I trying to say if I think I not heared.

>Expand on the different attacks that weapons had and look at how damage works rather than 'yeah you did just put a spear clean through the guy's chest and all but it's not even going to register as a hit'.
Tbh in morrowind as in daggerfall different weapons have 3 different attacks with diffirent speed and damage, and probably range but maybe not I forgot, in Dagerfall it worked better and I like swing controll by moving mouse in different directions for different attacks more that morrowind "move to make different attacks" tbh but this is different question.
As I hear about hit/not hit problem it comes mostly from people who don't expect it to have classic RPG combat, not action/adventure one. But there is other problem like I know guy whou thought that such combat more than okay for him against 2d sprites, but he have problems with this in 3D. And really - you have much less complains about same combat in any other older RPG game, even in real time. I'd say I absoluetly has no problem with that, I know how it works.
Thought I may say that real problem morrowind there is not with combat at all but with lack of animations - this is still 2002 game, heavely orientated on RPG elements, and it has no that much great animation work. In combat, there like same 2/3 animation for attack of every type and this all. People who see that much advanced for time 3d graphics and detalisation, assume that battles will look like in proper combat-action games, but all they get is "swing blade, no hit, swing again, rat deda" which is not very cinematic to look at. I understand why devs not made it better - they had a lot of different things to make. But I say if there will be animation that enemy dodged your attack or at least make zero-damage hit will in may ways decrease all complains in morrowind combad, and there was no need to reduce it to what you see in skyrim, for example. But you need to remember - morrowind is 2002 game and this is much more classic RPG in many things. Tbh, see what competitors can offer same year - Might and Magic 9 which one is no comment and gothic 1 which had action combat with ultra terrible controls - not complex or unique, but really not good like this game was poorly ported from console to PC even thought it always was only on PC, and you will understand that morrowind was da best in that therm.
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No. 7121
14 kB, 470 × 336
>What does that have to do with you acting like a cunt to these other people? Answer to that. Where do you get off talking shit to other people while getting offended when someone shoots it back? The reason nobody bothers to read them further is because you take a shitty tone and insult people in the first lines of them. Folks tend to just cut their losses after a certain point and just assume it'll be more of the same.
I have principles and views, and if you truley have them, there things in your life that you will never tolerate with. I don't want pretend to have neutral or non-existent views to be tolerant to all, it is impossiple of you have strong opinion or something. If people don't want ot talk about actual topic and defent their position - well, most probably they has no this position and just posers who can not answer for their interests and their tastes. Without defending your position and without principles you can't do prooper self education, without disscution and arguing you will never discover new things properly and develop your views, at last, if you have true interests and you assburger about them - you will not flee just because "me no like post". Be "a cunt" is just shit on people without actual conter position and arguments and ideas that will describe why you count one of other thing negative. I never was "cunt" for anybody, I will never say rude things to people for just meme purpose or joke, it is dumb, and honestely, I don't said anything truley rude there, I don't like shitposters and sosach-tier aggresive posters myself, but it dosen't mean we all should be ultra-tolerant pussies with non-existend magic of friendhip. This is or dumb or hypocritic.

>like assholes to you,
I has no complains to tone, I thought that you just don't read my basic claims and repead yours over and over that I already answered multiple times.

>So why don't we drop it and let the nice people go about their browsing in peace, eh?
I tent to be butthurt. Some things are much more important in my life to just sometimes ignor other things. Whole life I discover for yourself fantasy universe, science fiction, and classic video games, and almost all of things I like one way or another destroyed by modern big companies and this is in many ways fault of their audience. Sometimes when I hear offence to my interests, I feel like I cornered from all sides to last bastion. For example thank god that Morrowind at least have alive community with people who love it's lore, universe and gameplay, since besides it most majority of people don't that like it and no one undestand, palying modern TES games which in all ways inferior to morrowind, dumber and shitting on it's legacy deep pile of shit. It like old EC after death of KC was occupied by KCancer. And what I can make with such occupants besides defent to death? I'am not coward who will run in fear.
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No. 7123
Crap, I already asked mods to make more long posts avalible. Kinda tired from COMMENT TOO LONG thing

Tbh after previous disscution about CnC, I remembered plot and cutscenes of Red Alert 2. I liked them. Soviet presented there in many ways very caroonish-evil and meme way, same as allies, and you start to see how soviets bad (thought I never seen russian who was offenced by read alret, most of people whought thst this is fun. Only recently our glorious leaders start complain about this things) but it funny to release that in original game Allies "good" ending causing worse scenario and then war with Yuri and his thelepatic evil army in most destructive way possible that turn world into total shit, and only thought soviet campain in addon you play a good guy and fix everything and save the world, and it's soviets who have best good ending in final game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYqKQjVo30o
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No. 7136 Kontra
>>7119
Yes, me not liking the same things as you means I played the game badly. And stop acting like I haven't played the game. One of my playthroughs was quite literally an Atronach Sign Mage.

>I said that it is unfinished compare to what it suposed to be,
That's a synonym for unfinished. Don't sugar coat it. The game could be as ambitious as it wants but it was still a failed project that failed to implement a lot of elements properly and it still hasn't been properly fixed 20 years later by fan support. Unrealistic ambition is not a virtue when designing something because you just end up with things only coming together lukewarm at best and nobody is happy with the outcome. They learned their lesson with Morrowind and focused the game down and made it actually work properly. And you specifically said above 'daggerfall is hardly playable' by the way while no such statement was made in your wall of text about the game further up the thread.

>Video Game RPG =/= tabletop RPG
Yes, so call them PC RPGs or computer RPGs when saying that certain traits are 'necessary' for them. When you say that it's necessary for the entire RPG genre, you're just plain old wrong.

>You may choose almost every of them because game offer alternatives, and from all your complains I understand that you or not porperly used them, or have false memories, or not used your primary skills...
Remember how I said that I've played the game. You don't need to explain it to me. I'm aware that there are ways around it, my question is whether it was strictly necessary and in fact enhanced the experience in any way. That's the difference between looking at it as a design and as a product. As a product, the mechanics work and are at the end of the day fine. I've never said they were non-functional. Looking at the game as a design though, some mechanics stand out as suboptimal. It can be alleviated in game, yes but a good mechanic doesn't need alleviating because it expands rather than just becomes easier. Compare the combat systems of two computer RPGs, Warband and Morrowind. Both have different attacks, but Warband's system is far more deep and leaves a lot more discovery for the player. At the end of it, Morrowind's combat becomes less tedious with improved skills while Warband simply opens up more as you learn how to duel and how to fight a mob of enemies. It doesn't move towards a par level but starts at it and then takes it further.

>in morrowind as in daggerfall different weapons have 3 different attacks with diffirent speed and damage, and probably range
And they're unimportant. The speed is hardly ever truly relevant, the damage doesn't act differently and it doesn't matter how long the weapon is, a connection rolls the same dice no matter what. It's pretty shallow and leads to there being a close to universally best attack for any weapon. There was no depth there. Daggerfall's wasn't much better.

>I don't know other way how to put attention on what I trying to say if I think I not heared.
Try formatting. Nobody wants to read a wall of text with no line breaks.

>I don't want pretend to have neutral or non-existent views to be tolerant to all
You don't have to. Being polite doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.

>well, most probably they has no this position and just posers who can not answer for their interests and their taste
Or they would rather just spare their effort for people who want to have a discussion and not for someone who just wants to insult and condescend to them and call it 'discussion'?

>Be "a cunt" is just shit on people without actual conter position and arguments and ideas that will describe why you count one of other thing negative. I never was "cunt" for anybody, I will never say rude things to people for just meme purpose or joke, it is dumb, and honestely, I don't said anything truley rude there, I don't like shitposters and sosach-tier aggresive posters myself, but it dosen't mean we all should be ultra-tolerant pussies with non-existend magic of friendhip.
You can do all those things in a way far more pleasant than how you've done it so far. You don't need to call people cancer, or iq 55, or imply that they haven't played the game because they see it differently to you. You can be Albert Einstein and still be a cunt about how you discuss science. You want people to listen, give them a reason. And no, you have been a cunt multiple times. Using the same examples as before, someone asked about Overwatch and instead of just ignoring it as something you're not interested in, you start blasting the guy full volume calling him cancer and claiming that your opinion on the game was objective. Then there was taking the American who said something you disagreed with but instead of just addressing his points, you had to open it up with calling him iq 55, and you've meant it every single time. It's not banter when you mean it, it's being a cunt.

>I thought that you just don't read my basic claims and repead yours over and over that I already answered multiple times.
But you didn't answer them. You just repeated the same thing again and again, completely ignoring point of what I was saying. And making a statement to the effect of 'yet again one of you people didn't read my post' without actual evidence to the contrary is complaining about conduct and conduct is part of assholery.

>Some things are much more important in my life to just sometimes ignor other things.
>sometimes when I hear offence to my interests, I feel like I cornered from all sides to last bastion.
Doesn't mean you have to act like a cunt though. That's the core problem we're having here. It's that you don't behave like you want a discussion. You act like you just want everybody to smile and jack off the games you like. If you wanted discussion, your responses to people's posts wouldn't include a lot of the things you say and you'd find people a lot more willing to engage. EC/int/ was built on courtesy really. EC/int/ is something you really don't have to lecture me on since I've been on it since day one of the old one coming online. Also, it's not 'running away', it's just ending a pointless and off-topic discussion that's just unpleasant for all parties, which from here, is what I'm going to unilaterally do.

>Kinda tired from COMMENT TOO LONG thing
Comes from the condescension habit. If you didn't feel the need to wall of text things that people already know like they're idiots, you'd have fewer problems.
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No. 7144
49 kB, 427 × 300
One aspect of video game cutscenes that I find unfairly criticised both in western and post-ussr gaming media is comic-book story telling.

I remember in early 2000s everyone was going "eeew, this game doesn't even have 3D rendered cutscenes, just comic books, -5 points".
Everyone seemed to have been hyped about the recent advancement in 3D graphics, and thought that games could look like movies. Whereas I found in-game cutscenes and most pre-rendered stuff really weak, like watching poorly animated wooden puppets trying to convey emotion.

I always loved graphic novel story telling in games, I think it works really well or certain types of games, and blends well with the medium.

Just look at Max Payne or thief games, I think graphic novels are much better at conveying a dark tone than cutscenes.
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No. 7145
182 kB, 1280 × 768
>>7144
I agree. The game never sold well (it was fun but was not really much beyond being just fun and everyone expected better from the Spacechem devs), but Ironclad Tactics had a pretty good graphic novel style way of telling the story.
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No. 7148
>>7144
I agree completely.
Too many studios tried and failed to copy Blizzard or Square, who made actually impressive render sequences.

I also really like games that concentrate on storytelling by finding their style and then sticking with it throughout the game without breaking style for cut scenes at all. Take a look at Pillars of the Earth (based on the novel). No time to search for screens right now, have to catch a train
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No. 7149
>>7148
One game that does storytelling through environment and ambience really well albeit in a way that was quite experimental at the time is 'The Old City: Leviathan'. It's a walking simulator but its actually an interesting one that's pretty heavy on the philosophy side of things. Also has a god-tier soundtrack by Atrium Carceri which fits the empty environment really well.
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No. 7152
220 kB, 301 × 442
68 kB, 685 × 685
127 kB, 1024 × 768
106 kB, 685 × 685
>>7144
Unfortunately, it seems that 2D art for secondary purposes has fallen out of favour with gamedevs in general; only animoo-styled games or indieshit use it sometimes. Like, for example, Bioware games used to have really cool drawn portaits for characters, but then switched to 3D models (but hey, in KotOR your darksider dude will look all pallid and evul, isn't it cool? And in Dragon Age your portrait can make teh funneh faces, yay!). It's a pity, IMO sometimes 2D art looked absolutely awesome. Portaits of units in Disciples II are my long-time favourites.

>>7149
>god-tier soundtrack by Atrium Carceri
I haven't played that game, but I can confirm that. One of the best dark ambient there is.
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No. 7153
466 kB, 392 × 826
>>7152
I think it's mostly to use existing code on double duty. You already made the deformable face models for the dialogues so why not just use them for the portraits too? I don't think it's a great system but I can sort of understand why it happens from a utilitarian perspective. Thing is that little details like nice portraits go a long way, and if you want to be cheap about it, you could probably score some pretty cheap portraits from online artists who are excited about their shit being in a video game and using that kind of art is a way to drum up excitement in your users too.

It's not a video game but in MtG, some artists are so beloved by the users that reprinting valueless cards with art by them makes that printing actually a desirable option. A set of foil basics with Rebecca Guay art was even part of the regular prize pool for a tournament league earlier in the year. Not really a 1:1 with video games but it goes to show how attached people get to good art in their games. In case it's hard to tell due to size, Guay has a really nice whimsical/impressionist style that's quite unique and beautiful.
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No. 7155
>>7136
>And they're unimportant. The speed is hardly ever truly relevant, the damage doesn't act differently and it doesn't matter how long the weapon is, a connection rolls the same dice no matter what. It's pretty shallow and leads to there being a close to universally best attack for any weapon. There was no depth there. Daggerfall's wasn't much better.

Absolute bullshit. Each attack type deal different damage and with weaoons like spears or helbards or hammers this difference are very very huge. And with range - take spear and always attack from range that unachivable by others is one of the most obvious tactics. And in daggerfall whole combat and controls aimed on different types of swings. I don't know how "dice rolls" break this rule. All games using random calculation for attacks tbh, one way or another, but in ones where you can miss with low stats casuals start screaming about dice rolls and "bad" combat.

>Yes, so call them PC RPGs or computer RPGs when saying that certain traits are 'necessary' for them. When you say that it's necessary for the entire RPG genre, you're just plain old wrong.

How it is obvious should be that I reffer to video game RPGs in video games thread after adittionaly I repeated it multiple times? Tbh for majority of people "RPG" means vidja by defolt for 20 years, and tabletop reffer as "tabletop RPG". Nice try for starting arguing for nothing.

>That's a synonym for unfinished. Don't sugar coat it.
I like how you take quotes out of context and interpret my words what they don't meant in firstplace. Yes dagerfall unfinished compare to what they wanted to do very much, but it is still very awesome game, more than playable and for time - most advanced and big. This game won "RPG of the year" and popular and known still more than a lot of other games from same time, so don't try to make like this is "unplayable and bad".

>Remember how I said that I've played the game. You don't need to explain it to me. I'm aware that there are ways around it, my question is whether it was strictly necessary and in fact enhanced the experience in any way.

All problems that you had, all complains that you had is because you suck in game. This is rpg, so if your character have low stats - it is mean he bad at it. Game has no direct restrictions like other RPG games who directly forbidden some stuff and you can use anything from start, but your lower skills obviously non-existent and it be fail to use them as primary. Game allow you many opportunities to use alternatives and if you ended not hit anyone or walk too long - you doing it wrong, even if it's not forbidden.

>Try formatting. Nobody wants to read a wall of text with no line breaks.
Well I cleary see that you don't want read, this why I used CAPSLOCK.

>But you didn't answer them. You just repeated the same thing again and again, completely ignoring point of what I was saying.

I answered anything. I answered anything I could in most high detail I can. With every post I become more and more rude because you are fucking demagogue who misintropritate my words, not read anything I say and continue to repeat same "arguments" after they was answered multiple times. We here have aphorism "Reading book - see only middle finger (nothing)" and this is what I feel happen now. Adittionally giving me "important" moral lessons, lessons about EC and couring on your "gamedesighner" bullshit like you some kind of authority for me. If you really want answers - re-read all I previously typed without trying to make new posts with insults. If you want demagogy - find someone else and better on different forum.

>Being polite doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.

Polite tone show that you respect opponent. And currently I don't have much respect for you.
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No. 7157
>>7144
A lot of modern middle and low budget games using 2d graphics for cutscenes or just images. Well, it often not look very imperssibe, but they trying indeed

Examples:
Warhammber batlefleet gothic armada uses a lot of animated 2d https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Zx2aIwe6E

Orcs must die!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLtvk2idM90
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No. 7158
>>7157
I prefer straight up comic panels or slideshow style presentation tbh.

All of that scrolling and zooming is distracting.
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No. 7159
>>7158
Hmm, well for me Batlefleet gothic is more or less something that was in Thief, at least if I not mistaken.

I also like when there are static art and story (however it is much more nice to have with game actual physical book with pictures like it was back in ancient times lol)
Like in King's bounty intro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1JmfRrlVHo

Or, Ironicly, in blizzard early games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpEXhNjEeHY&t=86s
I always loved to hear narrator voice, was one of the most enjoyable parts in this game for me, combined with music.

Comic style? Well I can't remember anything with clear 100% comic style. In "XIII" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUXj972UVao for example was comic style with pannels, but it was 3d-animated, even when stylised.
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No. 7160
480 kB, 1280 × 1643
>>7159
I was referring to something like Max Payne.
Where cutscenes are like reading a literal graphic novel.

Tbh for me max payne 1 has perfect story telling style. Mp2 had worse story though.
Other than, of course environmental story telling like in HL1, but that's apples and oranges.
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No. 7161
>>7155
>Each attack type deal different damage and with weaoons like spears or helbards or hammers this difference are very very huge.
To be frank, the difference in damage actually made the attacks other than the strongest one useless. Why would I even want to thrust with a hammer? A meager increase in range doesn't compensate a huge loss of damage. The game plays just fine with "always use the best attack" option turned on, and in case of spears it actually plays easier, because you can maneuver around the enemy and hit them without doing those silly sideways and overhead attacks.
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No. 7162
120 kB, 1024 × 768
291 kB, 1920 × 1200
>>7160
Yeah, know about max payne, I like this game a lot.

I can agree with 2, it have more meh story that unlogically attached, I also don't liked new look of character and overall 2nd game feel more.. wrong? 2nd game also is 1/3 shorter than original one. Third one I played like 10 minutes because back then had old PC who can't run this game. As I know they did comic style in original because they had no monies for "real" cutscenes, but in many ways this was a feture that distinguish this game from other and developers used this style at maximum, making a lot of coimics from this game very memorable moments. As comination of irony but same time seriousness on noir genre I liked Max Payne more than SinCity movie adoptions.

>Other than, of course environmental story telling like in HL1, but that's apples and oranges.
Well from that is HL addons lol. Well, Unreal a little bit - a lot of moments like escape from crushed ship predates what Half life will done after a year. There a lot games who try to do same as HL1 but sadly, only rare achived same.
Even HL2 was worse at that in my opinion.

>Other than, of course environmental story telling like in HL1, but that's apples and oranges.
I like FMV cutscenes :D

>>7161
>To be frank, the difference in damage actually made the attacks other than the strongest one useless. Why would I even want to thrust with a hammer? A meager increase in range doesn't compensate a huge loss of damage. The game plays just fine with "always use the best attack" option turned on, and in case of spears it actually plays easier, because you can maneuver around the enemy and hit them without doing those silly sideways and overhead attacks.

This why Morrowind is more weak in that therm than Dagerfall in my opinion. Daggerfall controls more logical and give more wide difference between different types of hits. As I know, morrowind just failed to provide different rage for every type of hit, range same to all hits of weapon, and also yes, not the best controls choose. Of cource not a lot people will like something like Df swing in modern game, but hell, it worked!
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No. 7169
182 kB, 580 × 221
I've seen today about the game Pirates, Vikings and Knights 2. Looks absurd, and that's why I want to check it out as soon as possible.
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No. 7170
>>7169
Oh, I used to play this a lot.

It's 3-way team multiplayer. With capture the flag, koth, etc.

And teams are balanced assymetrically, too. It's amazing that the game manages to be fairly balanced with such unique metagame, but tbh it's a bit shallow. You learn all of the mechanics quite quickly, then the skill ceiling hits.
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No. 7171
I have weird video-game like feels.
I'd be exploring some weird, surreal place in first person, like myst or ultima underworld, except completely empty, no other people. I would know that my goal is to reach some kind of place that is closed off, and needs to be opened through weird actions, puzzles and exploration.

I'd intuitively know the "backstory" of the place, and reveal the storyline through exploration, just wandering about looking at weird places.

But I always wake up before I reach the end.
Anyone with same's?
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No. 7172
>>7171
Yes, I thinked about something like that. Like you remember when you can cas Armageddon spell that kill all NPCs and destroying all itmes in ultima underworld exept yourself and wisps that gived you this spell mostly to see how primitive creature like you would do. Sadly, after this game become unbeatable, but it is very interesting experience to walk around game where everyone dead.

I like dead or empty places in games, this one of reasons form vanilla Wow I like ruins of Alterac ruins and Hillsbrad Foothills with it's not very much quests, empty villages, ruined farms and just steppe with nothing but where still you may find something interesting.
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No. 7174
>>7171
Closest I have are dreams in Joint Military Symbology but they're not video game dreams. Video games just often use very simplified JMS.

I guess that since the dreams consist mostly of examining abstracted combat formations and locations of auxiliary forces, I'm in what's meant to be some C2 bunker but there is no other staff which is odd. Hard to have one C without the other.
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No. 7175
383 kB, 1024 × 768
10 kB, 259 × 194
>>7172
I meant to write "dreams" instead of feels, as in I have dreams where I wander around weird empty places.

But I love doing that in video games as well.

I loved Arx Fatalis for the same reason. There is a lot of backtracking in the game, and NPCs don't respawn, so a lot of times you are wandering around empty areas listening to the (amazing) ambient sounds, in claustraphobic dark catacombs.

One of my favorite games ever tbh.
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No. 7178
>>7175
>Arx Fatalis
This game to me was more interesting to explore than Morrowind and other open-world games. At first I wasn't impressed, like "ugh, endless dungeon everywhere, what could be more boring", "meh, this role-playing system is primitive" and "damn, the magic casting process sucks", but then I got into it and started to enjoy it a lot. Each level of the dungeon is unique, and shortcuts and secret rooms make it even more interesting, the atmosphere is very nice and sometimes kinda creepy, and the sound of a fish roasting on a bonfire is just so very cozy. Definitely an underrated game.
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No. 7179
71 kB, 700 × 394
83 kB, 800 × 422
>>7175
>I loved Arx Fatalis for the same reason. There is a lot of backtracking in the game, and NPCs don't respawn, so a lot of times you are wandering around empty areas listening to the (amazing) ambient sounds, in claustraphobic dark catacombs.

Well in UA it don't respawn too, however Abyss heavely populated since it not just monster dungeon but place with a lot communities and exept armageddon you never feel empty here.
I going to reply it one day since what I remember about Arx Fatalis is very foggy but first I now decided to re-visit all ultima series, playing first game now and it's funny how most basic mechanics that possible show what developer think about.

If you tell about what I dream of in case of empty spaces is like this Hashima island - small island with a lot of buildings and industrial stuff that now compealty empty. Or like.. 2nd pic not entierly correct but imagine soviet old building in middle of NOTHING. Steppe, or Tundra or Taiga around but you absoluetly don't know what around - like imagine that this emptiness and darkness go to infinitie and this big building with people is only populated place you know in universe or it is not even populated at all. I also have dreams about you know you are in typical soviet подъезд - you going up and one of the stairs lost! And you need to jump to be able to go nto next floor.
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No. 7180
90 kB, 620 × 388
90 kB, 620 × 388
73 kB, 620 × 388
>>7178
Did you played original Ultima Underworld, from which Arx Fatalis was inspired in many ways? If not, honestely recommend it. You will get same feels.
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No. 7182
>>7179
>Or like.. 2nd pic not entierly correct but imagine soviet old building in middle of NOTHING
Resorts of Magadan krai are awaiting you.
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No. 7183
294 kB, 1024 × 683
>>7182
I aready live in such region, no reason to go in another part of the country
I just imagine this as sseting in game - like imagine that such city was transported in some sort of pocket space that you can't escape and only way people to survive is barricade or not go outside of city very far. And nobdy don't know what evil hide far from this city.
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No. 7184
>>7182
also magadan is oblast' not krai
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No. 7189
>>7179
I sometimes imagine what it would be like if I my room was floating in outer space. Just the realization that there is NOTHING around me for billions of kilometers just seems absolutely cozy. Knowing that reality, for all intents and purposes, ends beyond the wall of your room.

Also same reason I want to walk into the steppe and live off pisswater. Nothing but the steppe for thousands of kilometers around. Absolute coziness.
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No. 7191
82 kB, 1280 × 520
>>7189
Ha ha yes kinda same
I imagened that toilet room is in space when I sitted there when was a kid, it was most claustrophilic place in apartament :-DDD
This is reminda me Star Trek TNG series when slowerly people erise from existance and when slowely universe cut to small area outside ship and than to just small dot and this was very atmospheric.
I guess my love for tiny islands comes from same direction
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No. 7195
>>7180
Nah, but I've heard about it. My interest in different settings and genres usually comes in waves of sorts (like SF wave, cyberpunk wave, fantasy wave etc.), so I might try it in one of the upcoming fantasy or oldie waves. Right now I'm ass-deep in organized crime wave (Yakuza 0), so the next wave won't come earlier than in two weeks or so, not to mention that it won't necessary be a fantasy (and I've yet to finish MM6 in it) or an oldie one (again, I already have some promising oldies, like Realms of Arkania or M.A.X.). Thanks for a suggestion, though.
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No. 7197
108 kB, 640 × 480
75 kB, 640 × 480
156 kB, 640 × 480
3 kB, 640 × 400
>>7195
Yeah, I have with vawes too. But mostly not by genres, but more like series. Currently I very want play thought early ultima games and I half-done first (1987 re-release) one, most probably this feel last untill 4th game or something.
>and I've yet to finish MM6 in it
When I first time discovered it, I was addicted, I played like MM6 and dropped back then in like half of 8th game, lol. And in first place, I managed to play 7th game and pass it even thought by visuals it was not so great in my opinion and thought be objectivly better at replability and roleplaying system it lacked that atmosphere and I continued playing just because I so wanted more of 6. I hope you are playing with must-have Fan patch?
I always was interested, where do they found so many actors for all NPCs and characters?
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No. 7202
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIfFJL6yt8I
New gameplay of Mount and Blade II
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No. 7203
>>7152
Pillars of Eternity and Divinity Original Sin are two examples of 2D art like you have mentioned in a modern game.
Both pretty good games as well, though I've had my trouble getting into Pillars of Eternity.

Also the three new Shadowrun games. Hong Kong especially had beautiful 2D art.
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No. 7213
>>7144
I don't remember that. I do remember the Homeworld series for example getting lots of critical praise for it. I thought that style was really really good.

>>7159
Yeah I was also thinking of Warcraft II. Especially since back then, like HoMM III cinematics tier looked so absolutely awful.

>>7203
Pillars is not that good. Which is a shame because it has all the elements of what should make for a good game, but it's really tedious and just not that interesting. The story could be improved but then most of the time you're either being distracted from it or don't give a shit about it because you'd rather rebuild your castle. The lore itself is incredibly dry and uninteresting and overall it just feels like a soulless version of an Infinity engine game.
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No. 7215
>>7213
>Pillars is not that good
i find the pillars lore also not as interesting as baldur's gate/forgotten realms, however poe and poe ii deadfire in particular is really, really beautiful, the artwork and cgi actually beats even baldur's gate. gameplay is extremely well done, too. definitely in the rpg top 3 of all time imo.
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No. 7217
>>7213
>like HoMM III cinematics tier looked so absolutely awful.
...and warcraft 2 cinematic movies if we not talk about briefings are actually same and even worse than heroes 3 ones. And you can get used to late MM style if you slowely go thought MM6 which one have transitional style that used a lot 3d renders, but also bright colors, phototextures and a little bit of FMV that help situation.

>>7215
I kinda may say that for my absoluetly personal opinion I have PoE style not that catchy and bor me it feels more or less bland. It one of things that just not mine, one of styles that hard to me to get get into not even early 3d-rendered cinematics, but modern middle-class vidogames with a lot of not most expansive digital art and 3d graphics. Something make for me this style of games like PoE, upcoming bard's tale 4, underworld ascedant, legend of grimrock not so eye-candy compare to even older styles that similar games used.
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No. 7225