/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

Currently at Radio Ernstiwan:

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No. 52208
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I've been migrating from odd jobs during the last few months. I manage to golden boy every position I take on, but they're all so tiresome.
Dealing with coworkers makes me want to snap my neck. I just want to do my jerb in peace without enduring a lazy slag's workload.

How's it been for Ernst?
No. 52209
Currently between two jobs. I hate the process of applying with all that "I so love your company and here's why" bullshit.
I just want a job that pays money and for that I am willing to work hard.
No. 52211
My current issue is around transport and housing. Thankfully agricultural work never requires bootlicking.
No. 52212
I got put out of work by the pandemic and been unable to get back in for nearly a year at this point with no real light at the end of the tunnel. Bennies getting cut back again soon too. I'm not the only one in this position. So tbh, count your stars that you can even find shit work, not everybody can get that currently.

Word. That's the worst bit. Selling your fucking soul, when everyone involved knows it's bullshit. It's even more insulting here because so many jobs have been casualised so you're crawling up their arse to be underemployed and have no work benefits.

There was also talk of sending those in benefits to work the farms. Dunno if they're still thinking it but it wouldn't surprise me. With no backpackers to scab on our workers and maintain the institution of starvation wages out there, they'll need to resort to local alternatives.
No. 52214
I thank dogola every day I'm able to occupy my time with minimal wage gruel, but the uncertainty of my work visa ending in October places me in a precarious uncertainty. If markets tank and there's hyperinflation across the world in coming months, all this effort would have been in vain. Maybe I'll grow buds in the woods.
No. 52216
>I hate the process of applying with all that "I so love your company and here's why" bullshit.
This. Fun fact: I once applied for a job at a company I was already working for as a consultant, after their own guys repeatedly asked me to apply, and their first question in the interview was why I think that I'm suited for the job (the same job I was already working in for six years). Should have silently shaken hands and left, but didn't want to raise a ruckus.
No. 52217
Was it a big company or a mittelständisch one? I think cases like that are when HR are close to being outed as useless parasites and then have to do all that shit to appear important.
My mom also had an internal job interview not too long ago and she also had an actual interview like an external applicant.
No. 52219
All together I have probably worked about two months in my entire life, two months too much. I'll just live on welfare and whatever I can get from the share market. It's not like I even need to work to get a house anyway, I'll just wait a few years and inherit the money to buy one anyway.
No. 52220
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A big one. Things like that happen when departments become too large and mighty, so that they are starting to feel self-sufficient, despite them being just a service provider for the core functions of the company. Even their own workers warned me about this in advance. There must have been several cases where HR prevented the hiring of employees they desperately wanted to hire, and they couldn't to shit, because processes and stuff. Normally in smaller companies, when the department you work for decided they want to hire you, you don't need to do the full application process like your mom and me had to do, and HR is just a formality, like "hi, here's your contract, sign pls". One of my pals experienced something similar: He was in the same situation and they were searching for an operator with a very specific skill, which he actually had (because he also worked for years in the exact position they were trying to fill). So he focused on this in his application, and then he got rejected for being a one-trick-pony. You couldn't make that shit up. And at some point we noticed that almost half the people we were working with had similar stories to tell.

Problem is that in a smaller company someone would have kicked HRs butt for things like that, but in a huge company they are too mighty and you couldn't even fire them for worse things. They can always hide behind their own processes and "just doing muh job", and no one would dare to risk a conflict, because there is nothing to gain from it. That is especially true for companies that will never go bankrupt because they're too big to fail. Same with too strong workers councils (sorry for being a libfag): Team leaders won't get rid of their most lazy/shitty employees, because it would mean more trouble for them in comparison to doing nothing and just endure it. So this kind of employees seems to be overrepresentated in those companies. And that's a part of the reason why large companies are inefficient and their products usually are more expensive than they should be. Another reason I observed is that even the most ridiculous and overly expensive project will not be canceled, because someone would lose their face, or even worse: The whole project is already completely managed by external companies, who obviously have an interest in keeping it running. And when you're too big to fail, it doesn't matter, because the state will back you up in case shit hits the fan.

Well, in the end I don't mind. I'm still working there as a consultant, so they are paying more money than they need to (sadly I don't get it, but my consulting company), but they seem to be fine with it.
No. 52221
I've been applying for jobs all night with heavy intermittent vaping to fill the gaps of loading and typing. Really thinking that kiwi picking is my best bet but every backpackers wants 170+ a week for rent, which is absurd in the areas I float around.
No. 52245
I'm just wörking a 450€ job managing website content for a uni department (only takes a couple hours per week) & receiving studentbux. Though I'll only be getting studentbux until this october, so I'll have to look for something else at that point. I'd love to find something similar as what I'm doing now, just working from home part-time. Though I also wouldn't mind doing something different either.

Idk, I'm just not really motivated by money or a career by themselves, as long as I can pay my bills and pursue my hobbies I'm happy. There's also the hope of turning my hobbies into a profession, but at my current rate of progress in that regard, that's surely going to take a while.

How is consulting? I suppose you need good grades/experience to do it
No. 52254
Are you that same weeb who was talking shit about the lower class?

Although to be fair, this is a summation of a certain truth in that a ton of lower class people take ridiculous pride in "working hard" and "not accepting handouts." I think they're fucking morons or misguided at best for it. I'll take it any way I can that's not flagrantly immoral or risking legal exposure. However this exact post is precisely why I think rich people trying to call the hardest working people, often juggling two jobs, "lazy" while they plan on not working for a living like a NEET except calling themselves investors or some invented b.s. for renting their Moscow flat or using financial chicanery, well it just pisses me off.

Of course having worked in the pandemic my goals now are to ensure I can eventually get enough money to invest and not work for anyone else ever again. As for doing anything worthwhile, this is few people. Not even medics when you get down to it sometimes. It's like a century of Goodbye Lenin scenes.
No. 52256
Other Aussie. I prefer work over dole because I have more control over it usually, and I have some pathetic protections against arbitrary wage cuts. The government has no such restrictions on the dole and in fact has shown itself willing in the past to put you to work as a sub-minimum wage worker in order to even get your benefits.

It's a shitty situation all around, hence why I don't speak for the system, but in terms of making do in the shitty situation, working and earning even a shitty living in the workforce is just better for my mental health than an equally shitty income that's way more precarious.
No. 52310
>until October

I thought the Corona semesters don't count?
No. 52313
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>How is consulting? I suppose you need good grades/experience to do it
Not really. The time I got into it, those guys were desperate to hire and they changed their policies from only hiring experienced people to also signing people right from university - like me. And no one even asked me about grades. As far as i can see this hasn't changed: My current company and my former company are still hiring juniors. Most important thing is that you come across as a decent guy and that you act like you won't alienate a potential client company. We're not talking big boi consulting like McKinsey, BCG, Accenture and stuff, though, I don't know how those guys handle this, but I wouldn't want to work there anyways, because in my book they are huge dickheads: Tons of extra hours, they deliberately try to get you a client far away from where you live (so you have more time to work because no private life), and a rather harsh "go up or leave"-mentality. Not worth the extra money in my opinion.

For my own job: It's called consulting, but it really isn't. It's more like a mobile IT department for companies in temporary need of manpower to do IT projects. I rarely work overtime or on weekends, in fact lots of my pals who work in manual labor / construction have worse working hours. Also we aren't hated by our client's staff, because we're not the guys who are getting them fired, like business consultants sometimes are when they are hired for doing reorgs and stuff. We're more like the nice guys who come to help. The thing that baffled me most is that there is not very much competition between the employees of different consulting companies. It exists between the companies itself, but the consultants usually are chill and are not trying to peck your eyes out to get more of their own people in a given project. My guess is that this is because consultants on average only stay a few years with their company, so they don't really give a fuck about their companies goals. Also everyone likes to have a comfy workplace, so why stir up shit?

Biggest downside to the job is that you tend to have too many bosses, in my case it's almost comical at the moment: I have my real boss from my company, a boss from the company who subcontracted us because our client only takes employees from some arbitrary snowflake consulting companies, my client company boss, and the boss from the company my client works for - and of course all of them are top priority when they want something, after all they're my boss.

Overall still 8/10, would choose career :DD path again!
No. 52315
I just sent an application, but forgot to change the name in the salutation.
This will now haunt me forever.
At least it wasn't a job I really wanted.
No. 52322
I have a job in a quality lab since 2019 which pays well in comparsion but has shifts and sometimes weekend work and I feel a little bit stuck. But next week I have a talk about a job I applied for with the union, which would be totally different from what I'm doing now but as I anticipate more rewarding when it comes to the level of "what am I doing with my life".
No. 52323
What is a "quality lab"? Like GMP and QM bullshit or what? What are your qualifications?
No. 52328
>Like GMP and QM bullshit or what?
Yes, exactly. Just Technical Assistant, I'm no academic.
No. 52330
I see. Still, are you "only" TA or do you have any additional qualifications?
I am currently considering doing a QM ISO 9001 blablabla Weiterbildung since most of the jobs I am currently eligible for are sales and I really don't want to do sales and QM seems less of a hassle (for the QM manager).
No. 52338
I have a GMP expert certificate actually something useful paid for by the Arbeitsagentur when I was unemployed after I moved in early 2019, was a 4 weeks course, but besides that nothing special.
Do you have to pay for the ISO yourself or can you get it for free somehow or idk put it as an expense on your taxes or something? But it's probably worth it if you're looking for a QM job. Might still be a hassle for you though, if something/someome within the GMP system fucks up you might end up getting a lot of pressure.
No. 52346
Gots me a new job doing 12 hour shifts unloading and hooking hops into a packing shed. The owner called and baited me into an interview over the phone but at 22.68 an hour with 35 dollarydoos of rent a week, I can't complain a bit. I'll be pulling in 1400 after 17% tax, week if there's no rain.
Feels good man.
No. 52347
>12 hour shifts
Jesus. How many days do you have to work a week?
No. 52348
I did the maths and he would have to be working 7 days a week...

12 hour shifts are pretty common here now too and worse than that they often have you work both night and day shifts during a week. It's ridiculous and I really don't understand how it is allowed, 12 hour shifts re bad enough but the impact on sleep and health cannot be overlooked. The benefits of a fixed sleeping pattern and good sleep are very well established and overtime we only discover more benefits to it.

I think part of the issue is that people voluntarily do it. I worked security for a bit doing weekend event work, one of my co-workers had a day job for some institution or other doing 12 hour shifts, not only that but he mentioned that sometimes they would offer him a second shift and he would take it, he would work 24 hours in a row. On top of that he was working weekends and often week nights for the company I worked for(the company also did security for bars, shopping centres etc). He would even work 24 hours on a Friday and then work for the other company on the Saturday(often for the day and night and then work the day and night on Sunday too). It's not like he was an ethnic being taken advantage of or an old man who didn't know any better, he was my age and white. If people voluntarily do this then how can normal people compete? A company can just offer 12 hour shifts and if the applicant refuses they can find somebody else.
No. 52349
>I think part of the issue is that people voluntarily do it.
It's a big part of it. It's why any attempt to reform agricultural work in Australia has failed despite being awful conditions. Those who might give a shit about the working conditions (effectively starvation wages in some areas) are scabbed on by those who only give a shit about their working holiday. Covid has actually given us a golden opportunity to organise farm labour in this country. I hope that they can pull it off, but I doubt it. The Australian labour movement is pathetically collaborationist.
No. 52350
Oh and as to why even traditionally (relatively speaking) non-exploited demographics are into it, it's to do with the fact that work insecurity is super high these days. The workforce is super casualised and bosses deliberately undersupply hours to their workers to make them desperate (and easier to exploit). For lots of people, two or more jobs, or just overworking themselves is an insurance policy against the bosses deciding to just cut them out of the loop. I had a period where I had my hours cut to less than 10 a week for no reason other than to rubber band them back above what my old hours were once I was choked out a bit. All legal too, because they sign you on as casual.
No. 52351
Covid has given us a golden opportunity to do a lot of things that we haven't... It's quite concerning.

Maybe, but I think this guy's day job was not casual, plus he mentioned that he had earned over $100,000 that year so it must have been stable(and the boss of the company I worked for who works as a tow truck driver in the day replied that he had made $500,000).
No. 52353
>12 hour shifts are pretty common here now too and worse than that they often have you work both night and day shifts during a week. It's ridiculous and I really don't understand how it is allowed, 12 hour shifts re bad enough but the impact on sleep and health cannot be overlooked
In Germany you are allowed to work 8 hours a day for your employer with allowance to go up to 10 if during a half year your average remains at 8 hours. 12 hours is possible for certain branches and under certain conditions, e. g. they passed a rule lately due to corona crisis. Also the fuckers of the employer lobby and the conservatives have been attacking the 10 hour limit since a couple years already. In Austria they even somewhat succeeded lately in weakening the limitations to 12 hour work. But working 12 hours is still the exceptation from the rule. Also in small companies without an employee council shit like this sometimes might slip.
Funfact: in tsarist Russia 11.5 hours was the official workday limit (which of course often was hard physical labour under worse conditions than nowadays concerning saftey, pay etc. and often not enforced but still).
No. 52503
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It truly was right and righteos that tsarists was destroyed utterly. You can say what you want about Lenin and others being murderers but the fuckers truly had it coming to them, as did all the holdovers from the feudal era. I don't even know why a Spanish or Danish crown even still exists. It's also lately really made me think about the actual relationship between the religious authorities throughout history, and the political authorities and the exploited classes. Trying not ever to deal with others in my country has really made me go beyond just thinking about my own private faith, and what it truly actually says about everybody and the religious enterprise itself. This is much worse here though considering that Americans are just godawful with religion (just like much of everything else) and so while they are known hypocrites who've themselves been doing more damage to steadily eroding the power of faith and the numbers of religious people in the country for decades, just watching this shitshow with MIGAtards and Qtards has started making me question things a lot more heavily, which in turn has brought up some rather deeply uncomfortable revolutionary implications.

For starters, they are hardcore radical establishmentarians. I was just yesterday looking at some stuff from the Bohemians, partly because Prague is reaching a hundredth monkey effect in the hyper noosphere so far as I could tell, which led me to finding some art from around the 12th century where royalty and feudal lords are literally depicted as Christic figures (in the non-crucified non-self sacrificing sense obviously), rather clearly identified with the deific sitting on His throne, which is surrounded by people groveling below him. It really hammers home the degree to which religion really was used as just a tool for social control by corrupt politicians with lifetime bloodline appointments, despite them clearly being worthless pieces of shit still getting called lords as if to solidify the identification between LORD and Lords.

Perhaps that "god" king thing has always been the case, exemplified by these bydlo ascribing "the trump curse" magical qualities to someone so undeserving in the ultimate show of their cuckdom.

Yet none of that is even what bothered me the most. The one thing I've been really dwelling on is seeing this one MIGA Qtard saying how glad he was to see all these people going to hell. That's the most antichristian statement imaginable to me. It's literally rooting for Satan against God, and I came to realize just how many of these antichrists are there pretending to fly the Christian flag, but perhaps worse, doing so thinking they're Christians and that they're "saved" which seems to be ensuring they're all going to hell after watching their temporal epic defeat and humiliation because they've ossified into a perpetual position of spiritual damnation they don't even recognize and thus can't or won't change until they do.

It's struck me that things are really no different now, and I've come to understand precisely why the radicalized proletariat attacked organized religion so viciously and persecuted the priesthood. I've always thought rather about those monkish EC tier personalities dedicating their lives to philosphy and God, rather than seeing how many grew fat and corrupt, using their mere job title to remain unassailable to the People while gaining favors from royalty all in return for subservience to the crown while indulging their worst whims, and that reminds me of the Catholic pedophiles. I don't even think it was something so stupid as women priests or non-celibate priests, which likewise shows how disgusting and contemptible liberals are to seize something so heinous so opportunistically as a chance to push their faggy little agendas. The truth is many of these people likely became priests because it gave them unfettered access to people in the most vulnerable state, from the most publically unimpeachable position, and having others in the racket covering for them. I doubt all these people even believed in God to begin with. So it is little wonder, then, that leftists developed this rabidly anti-religion bent, for it emanated from the priesthood's deeds. In watching Putin, I get the real sense of how little had changed since the 12th century, and how much people keep buying into the same stupid shit, as if half those masses know they don't believe in God and are using it just as cynically as the priests themselves.
No. 52570
i plain jump to freelance blydo coder

i currently work in IT but the wage is too low.
No. 52584 Kontra
In science and startups nobody gives a fuck and 13 hours are common. Also any regulations to force time documentations are a meme.
No. 52616
The problem is if whether you wish to actually do the work or not. The way I see it that's much between a rock and a hard place because there's both some people that need it as well as just some workaholics which would in turn create an oppression or coercion by the State, which in the opposite direction could see what that other German is saying about oppression by the Company.

I think that ideally the solution should be to pass laws that allow employees out of work unless they wish to, possibly as specific circumstances dictate, and not simply because the boss wants to extract more labor out of you. I've had jobs before that had me on like three 11 hour shifts in a row which cut me off from being considered a real full time employee, and which sometimes got stacked around the weekend so I could be forced to work six 10-11 hour days in a row but not only not qualify for full time employment protections but also disqualified me from having overtime because it was the weekend even though I literally just wörked over 60 hours in a row.
No. 52623
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Working full time as a factory laborer and trying to study over the weekend. I feel so fucking burnt out.
No. 52625
>13 hours are common
>in science
I worked at an university, 13 hours was not common there tbh.
No. 52626
Sames. Was working in the STEM field and most of the time I was working less than the hours I was paid for.

Not saying that it wasn't stressful or anything, just that I've never had to do overtime.
No. 52628
He should have probably clarified "life sciences". Biologists are usually on 50% positions, but work full time and depending on the department 7-19 and weekend work are common. Indeed my former boss (chemicist) thinks "with an 8 hour workday you don't gain anything in science".
Conversely, I have a friend working in CS and their department is like some kind of early 90s id Software place.
No. 52629
Working 45 hours a week in an office, the pay is alright by Russian standards, and since I'm actually solving some engineering problems it's not completely mind numbing but the lack of in the field work is really getting to me, not to mention all the bullshit with monthly and yearly goals. Working in the military industrial complex was easier, but it didn't pay at all.
No. 52664
One would have thought that working for the Russian military-industrial complex would be one of the few areas which actually did pay well and reliably so. But then again, I'm guessing that Russia has changed a lot in the lost 20 years from what I am thinking.
No. 52675
In that respect the US is the outlier: Most states around the world can not afford to pay better than the free economy. I can find a job in the industry that pays 5k from day one, without moving to another city. The best paying jobs offered by the state (eg. military) don't even pay 2k in the first 6 months (same qualifications and I've even included the 10 closest cities...).

I know this because I've been searching for jobs this january... luckily I've found something that pays okay but doesn't have all the strings or moral issues attached that exist in the industry or the state.
No. 53154
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I have concluded that wörking is truly a thing for suckers unless your wörktime is for yourself and growing your own company. The idea of this retarded Germano-Protestant "work ethic" isn't just profoundly retarded, but truly an insidious ideological thing meant for the cattle. It becomes so much more apparent with the most casual observation that for example just in law and the Supreme Court it's generally Catholics and Jews. Why? It isn't because of some great Judeo-Hibernian conspiracy. It is because Protestant Evangelicals and midwesterners are fucking retarded and who never better themselves or their understanding of the world, and then wonder why they are ruled by people who don't share their corn shucking shit culture.

What's even more amazing to me is these rubes then insist your spiritual salvation is not from works but by faith alone, and then proceed to physically wörk to the bone. I think what some have picked up on and thusly rejected Christianity for wholecloth and turning into poltards is also what they missed, namely that it's not all of Christianity like this, but their specific sectarian version is indeed an ideology for a slave race of cattle. Somehow the internal contradiction of being hardworking bydlo for crumbs while insisting good works are irrelevant never occurs to them as they pass the collection plate and enrich some televangical huckster.

There is one central truth to America and it is that hard work doesn't pay--capital does. You need a great deal of luck if you're not born with it and if you are it's nearly impossible to ever go broke.

I think what bydlo misunderstand is persistence is what pays, not hard work, and persistence married to cleverness. Cleverness mind you, is not the same as being smart. I think imageboard dwellers also miss this fact. Persistence in the face of one's own failures and remembering how to learn from a failure then moving on is all that matters, not work. Hard work is like that webm of the Russians tink tink tink hitting a road with hammers to break it up. Intelligence is it occurring to you you'll need better tools. Capital is having the construction equipment to do so. Cleverness is exploiting the situation whether you have the equipment or a bunch of bydlo you can pay next to nothing to take ten times as long to do the work while getting a contract to do it from the Russian government. That is the truth of this world.

Also I must ask, is there anything like early imageboards still or a place like you would hear of bitcoin in 2009 that is not 4krebs and reddit? Because I am still somewhat salty over having known about BTC when it was 0.02 over 12 years ago regardless the fact even if I bought in I'd have liquidated long ago, and clearly 4shit is worse than useless and reddit is just as annoying and not a ton better, though reddit is literally better than 4kannal. They even have an entire fucking board dedicated to youtube ecelebs now. It is as beyond unspeakably terrible now as 2015 unspeakably terrible was beyond 2007 4krebs. I want to find something like it or the very beginning of SA or BBS's. Something more obscure and shielded from the boomers and children that killed imageboards and such.
No. 53156 Kontra
So, how is your business doing?
No. 53271
I think you guyses disagreement is that waging makes sense in a high trust and communal society, while being a lone wolf businessman makes more sense in a cut throat infivifudludtic society like the us.

But my problem is that it seems like being a self serving asshole works generally in every situation, while a more communal attitude has to be upheld by an ideological framework. One is more generally applicable than the other
No. 53278
>But my problem is that it seems like being a self serving asshole works generally in every situation,
Well, isn't that self-evident? Something something wolves and sheep.
"It's better to be a warrior in a garden than being a gardener in a war", etc.
No. 53279
Being a self serving asshole is usually a detriment in most situations. It's usually a survival strategy favored by those with low impulse control and hoping for quick gain against long term consequences. If you act like a big enough asshole consistently people will do things like overweigh your deli and produce, spit on your food, cut you off in traffic, pass you up for promotion, ostracize you from social events etc and it will eventually get to the point where your ability to find a mate or resources gets more and more impaired. Depending on society they just may push you off a cliff and tell the rest of the tribe it was a "hunting accident."

Anglo societies are probably some of the few where being a blatantly selfish individualistic asshole can get consistent returns, and even then it's more an ideological framework about muh capitalism muh bootstraps muh entrepreneur. This also goes with the rampant narcissism which any other society rightfully finds abhorrent, and even in our own society and some subcultures things like camwhoring on youtube and being an "e-celeb" is heavily frowned on, including our own.
No. 53284
That is true only up until a certain population number threshold, when you have so many people around that "trust" and "reputation" effectively become unlimited resources. You can piss off 100 people and stil have a 1000 more to swindle.

It is obvious and self evident, but for some reason not often acknowledged. I'd like social models from now on to be based on the assumption that an average person is a self interested psychopath, than a morally upstanding citizen. Worst case scenarios are more useful for analysis than the best case scenarios, because the latter are just too rare.
No. 53290
Only in the presence of a certain amount of anonymity. Even in a major urban center you're eventually going to get noted as "oh that asshole" if you keep it up, which is in turn going to be more and more people cheering for your downfall.

Like even at the macro scale I'm well aware of the fact my country is a big fat asshole and around the world people would cheer if we fell, but on the one hand not 100% of what we did was cancerous (and this is even more true following certain wars or butthurt at neighbors), and on the other the rest of the world is aware China and Russia are capable of being even bigger assholes. Nobody really wants to deal with the asshole.

There's really only so far you can push it before it comes back to bite you, and even then it has to be tempered by spurts of being not an asshole. All true assholeish people know this. Even psychopathic abusers and pimps recognize it when they manipulate people. But again it isn't a very effective longterm strategy in most cases unless it's being propped up by some ideological framework that can normalize or glorify some type of asshole.
No. 53321
>I'd like social models from now on to be based on the assumption that an average person is a self interested psychopath, than a morally upstanding citizen. Worst case scenarios are more useful for analysis than the best case scenarios,
you're adjusting to and getting comfortable with the worst then, which shifts probabilities in favour of everything turning worse for you and everyone else. do you want that?

are you the iranball who used to regularly post large walls of text on kc /int/ about a century ago?
No. 53322
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>Anglo societies are probably some of the few where being a blatantly selfish individualistic asshole can get consistent returns
Anglo societies aren't the only ones with sin being rewarded.
No. 53323
No, unfortunately both him and India among others like St. Kitts have all moved on since years ago largely due to the exact same human tumors from 4kanker destroying the community who are on k*hl now. "Iran" is just another one of Kazakhstan's proxies which similarly Australia sometimes shows up as other countries too when he forgets to turn proxies off. Somewhat speaking of which, whatever happened to that one Brit who works in government?

I am not sure what that structure is.

Also as for what he's saying, it's literally a known thing called ponerization, or the socio-cultural and political normalization of evil
I think it is some sort of profound irony that among the people who use terms like that the most are exactly the ones that have been ponerized into Trumpmenbashi supporters. It's seen most frequently among charismatic cult leaders, totalitarian dictatorships, organized criminal heads, and other small consortiums of psychopayhs which have then successfully hijacked all or part of the machinery of a society and thus perverted the standard into normalization of sociopathy and stigmatization of things like empathy and morals. Case in point, poltards, cancerous imageboard cultures, the Soviet politburo particularly under Stalin, Nazi leadership, ISIS and so on.

I'd imagine this to be the case in Turkmenistan and North Korea right now for example, and probably also in the Philipines under Duterte. Truly aberrant pathological people in turn tend to get attracted to others of their own ilk who in turn are the most vocal about its normalization, much like pedos, trannies, weebs, and various other deviants go out of their way to vocally normalize themselves partly by aligning themselves with the narcissistic and psychopathic of political regimes.

The actual cure to this is simply to say that it is aberrant, it is deviant, it is not normal, and it is not desirable. Pathocrats in particular despise the free flow of information and consequently free flow of information about them. They immediately try to clamp down on things like the internet and journalists for a reason, because without information control their regimes tend to fall apart as they represent a very small minority of people and thus must convince and gaslight the other 98% of people into thinking they're the abnormal ones for still resisting.
No. 53334
Well, I would define "truth" as the least volatile and most stable state a configuration can be in, so to me, a pessimistic view of human behavior is the most "truthful", since the rock bottom is a set point, while "goodness" is infinitely distant and perpetually approachable. In the sense that you can approach it forever without reaching it.

All arrangements will eventually decompose to their most trivial states, and there's nothing more trivial than humans to be benefit-maximizing automata.
No. 53336
I quit my job as a software developer and now I'm driving 3000 miles to work on my parents' newly-purchased farm. We'll see if I regret this or not but right now I feel elated.
No. 53343
truth is absolute lack of contradictions, volatility has not much to do with it.
>since the rock bottom is a set point
things can always get better, but things can always get worse, too. like, when you're on position (-9000) on the real number line you can move to position 0 and continue to eventually reach 9000 or you can go to (-∞), (-∞)-1 and so on.
i'm not really arguing against pessimism though. pessimism can be useful while assessing probabilities of a particular situation. i'm arguing against being pessimistic in an absolute way, such that accepting negative states of affairs as absolute is desirable. this can logically only lead further into negativity.
>All arrangements will eventually decompose to their most trivial states
i think this statement might not be trivial to prove :)

i left /int/ around 2014 since kc became more and more an unbearable cesspool for /pol/tards and the like back then, however i've always been more of a passive lurker and never took part in socializing etc. t. actual assburger on /int/, so i wouldn't know about about irl circumstances of namefags like emokiddeh anyway. i remember iranball as quite an active poster who disappeared from /int/ all of a sudden during a time of turmoil in his country. although i wouldn't necessarily agree a lot with him, i still enjoyed his effortposts, so i was wondering what happened to him.
No. 53355
We are talking about the different metaphysical "levels" of truth. Here.
At the highest level, I see "tokens" proposed by Parmenides. They're like ideas, except more fundamental. They're the building blocks of ideas. Very primitive and fundamental. I could do a math analogy and say that a Parmenides' token is something like "Pi", an "idea" that is so fundamental, it is a lynchpin for the existence of other ideas. But really, it might go deeper than that. Like, pieces of immutable, indivisible information, from which all other information derives its properties.

You are talking about truth in a closer association with the notion of "fact". This definition of "truth" is circumstantial in that it can or can not be truth depending on the existence of an external object. (A contradition to the truth). Not "fundamental" enough for my tastes.

Me, I'm trying to introduce a notion of truth that's not entirely metaphysical, and can exist in a practical context, yet mimics the property of being entirely self-contained and immutable. "Truth" as in something that does not change its nature depending on what is introduced into the system. It does not interact with anything (for interaction requires mutability on part of the interacted), it does not change, can not be further decomposed. That is my notion of truth that is one level of abstraction (or "divinity" if you will) than platonic ideals, and yet can be formulated and utilized in a lower level, "mundane" context.

>things can always get better, but things can always get worse, too. like, when you're on position (-9000) on the real number line you can move to position 0 and continue to eventually reach 9000 or you can go to (-∞), (-∞)-1 and so on.
No, I don't think introducing the negative numbers is necessary here. I don't think there's an infinite depth to "acting like an animal", if you define that as "acing in a way that maximizes individual fitness regardless of anything". There's only one "perfect" point at which a function can be perfectly optimal for its environment, and we can just call that "0". Optimization is not a +- scale, it is a point you are trying to reach. Just like in computer programming or engineering in general, there's exactly one, fragile, most optimal state you want to be in, rather than having an infinite space to optimize towards.

>i think this statement might not be trivial to prove :)
I can't prove it, but I'll just fall le good old entropy and Marxist analysis of economy/science. Things naturally trend towards min/maxing. minimizing effort for maximizing profit/benefit. Because every other strategy is less efficient at self-perpetuating.
I can even provide examples. In that, life forms that merely maximize self-perpetuation are far more likely to survive through many scenarios, including mass extinction scenarios, than complicated organisms. If some freak space ray hits the earth and scorches the planet and destroys the ecosystem, it won't be the advanced humans surviving, it will be the primitive bacterial. And that's not a good thing.
I think our job as the only self-directed species is to consciously decide our path of development, rather than becoming subservient to entropy, like how capitalists love to do (duh its natural, it's just the law, muh social darwinism). We must become the masters of our fates and DEFY natural law, rather than try to utilize it.