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Hail Odin! by Christenklatscher666


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No. 52902
97 kB, 960 × 540
Are religious people going to preach about Jesus to aliens who are significantly more advanced than us, right before they zap us like bugs?

Survivorship bias is the only reason Christianity survived this far. The strongest material culture enforced Christianity. If the Aztecs would have been more advanced than the Spanish we'd all be sacrificing on pyramids.

The Middle East and North Africa are Muslim now, but they used to be Christian. The Christians there got removed by Muslims. Do you think the same thing will happen to "the way, the truth, and the life" when a stronger lifeform encounters us and dismantles our planet for resources?
No. 52922 Kontra
There are multiple layers of assumption behind your post, not least of which is the idea that anyone would even bother to come all the way out here to strip us of natural resources. It sounds like a very industrial revolution humanity centric viewpoint. I mean, the main reason we even thought of that is because we're confined on our planet to begin with. If we could just figure out asteroid mining in a practical cost effective and not super dangerous sense (like not bringing the thing here which would 100% risk extinction level industrial accidents) we'd instantly solve most of our metals and rare earths issues. If we could find some kind of a way to get out towards the gas giants we could start burning their hydrocarbons, which more likely than not we'd have already figured out a better way of making energy than dumb shit like burning gas and coal.

Honestly our actual biggest problem right now really just boils down to clean water. You'd think this isn't such a problem on a water world but we can't drink like 99.8% of that shit.

I've posited this before but that the primary actually sensible resource which you could even find on any other world would actually just be life itself, unless you were looking for something particularly exotic which you are unlikely to find here or at least not on earth. Complex life otoh could actually turn out to be quite rare in the universe particularly as anything from Venus/Mars problems to gamma ray bursts towards the center to lack of heavier elements could make it super hard for anything much more advanced than bacteria and fungal or protozoan analogues to form and thrive, in which case I'd also likewise posit that our own future would be in xeno genetech. To give one example, NASA is using cuttlefish bone in its materials sciences division for coming up with how to structure spacecraft heat shields. The mere existence of the modern aircraft is partly the result of learning to understand how bird wings work. We took a lot of our greatest inspirations from the natural world, and typically all our more advanced stuff is sythesized from it, which means that if you're an alien civilization then it really might only be interesting and useful to go looking for genetic resources on other worlds since pretty much anything raw material you could possibly need is actually going to likely be right next to your in your own system or a neighboring one, whereas actually finding genetic resources is stumbling on billions of years worth of trial and failure engineering feats. It is possible convergent evolution would work similarly on theirs of course, but I can't really think of anything else besides tech maybe they didn't come up with yet, like maybe they never developed the silicon microchip in the way that we did but did power everything with antimatter reactors.

>all that ideology
I don't have it on here but there's this great picture of nihilists declaring morals is stupid and wrong, and then forming a conga line stabbing each other in the back saying how enlightened they are. Altruism functionally is the best and most logical course of action within nature. We likely evolved our big brains explicitly because our own teamwork was much more effective, and that all our nice shiny shit like art, culture, language, mathemetics, and resulting science and tech basically was just a happy accident resulting from that. Lone wolf hypothesis is retarded. A group of smaller, weaker things will always take down the strongest biggest thing. All the world's megapredators now need us just to make an effort not to make them go extinct through our own carelessness right now. Islam had a period of conquest like any empire, which worked for them because of uniting under a common goal, which is what the Chinese are doing and the Soviet Russians once did. Christianity has simply been one of the strongest ideologies in pushing us towards not being self serving dicks which damages our society as a whole thereby weakening the position of everyone in it. I find it ironic that all the people bitching about decline of the West then embrace will to power bullshit and completely miss the point that we live in an entirely venal, self absorbed, greedy, and callous shit tier society now with wildly declining religious rates every year and those that do claim to be religious frequently don't actually believe in all the altruistic and strength and integrity based philosophy and merely use it as another convenient mask for some dipshit kulturkampf thing. Europe got strong af through a Christian ethos, and routinely weakened itself through hypocrisy and infighting. The more a society fragments and atomizes the weaker is that society as a whole as well as the position of everybody in it.
No. 52924
Nice AI-generated text.
No. 52926 Kontra
That sort of response is exactly why I kontra'd it. Fyi like half this board posts like that. I somehow expected you didn't want a real discussion but responded anyway on the off chance some other ernsts may post.
No. 52929 Kontra
You know, I had a perfectly good thread on this subject for you to post:
No. 52933
No. 52934

Not quite. Christianity is of course based on the idea that there is only one god and can only be one god and that if you do x and not y then you will go to heaven and not hell(and x is usually something that is within the power of all people to achieve). This is actually not that common amongst pagan religions, they don't actually deny the existence of other gods and heaven, hell and sin are much vaguer concepts sometimes it is only possible to get to heaven in niche ways like through battle. Christianity makes it very clear how to get to heaven and that there can only be one god, so a pagan may accept that Christian god exists as he accepts that other gods in general do, after a few generations of such acceptance the successive generations are likely to drop the pagan god because of the simple and easy to access heaven it promises and in order to accept that god they have to renounce all others(which again usually takes a few generations).

In addition to all of this, Christianity is much more centralises and united whilst also being of the view that their god is the only one and that any who do not accept it will go to hell. Therefore it is possible for Christianity to apply united force to a pagan adversary in order to convert them for either political reasons or even out of the view that they are saving the souls of the pagans and also this means that Christians will go out of their way to try and convert others because again they think it will save their souls. Islam has similar views which is why they eliminated the pagans in their area.

Christianity and Islam are related so converting to one is not actually that much of a stretch as opposed to converting to an alien religion. I don't think aliens will be interested in the resources of our planet. For every planet with life there are many more without it(that are also closer to them) that they could mine instead. Though I guess they could try to colonise us. Both imply that they have some kind of Sci-fi technology that may not even be possible to create.
No. 52943
Trying to get my head around one question: Is Jesus's sacrifice valid for life on all planets, or only for the descendants of Adam here on Earth? He took on human form, to live as one of us, so it would seem His death was only for us. But He was also a perfect sinless sacrifice. The sinless nature is more significant than the particular physical form. So that should cover all sin, everywhere, whenever a conscious soul confesses His name and repents. To believe otherwise would mean that His blood wasn't enough. It was powerful, but had limits.

So, yeah, thinking this through, we'll definitely preach to our new alien overlords. Whether they convert is another matter. The Romans eventually gave in, right? Why wouldn't the grays?
No. 52952
Original sin just covers us because it is a bloodline thing as much as it is a supernatural one. The Image is in reference to our souls, and our sapience, which likely any other intelligent alien would also have and would have likewise been made in His Image because our intelligence itself is akin to an emergent property of God's creation with that extra spice thrown in to grow a true and complete soul within the material universe.

As such, a great deal of Scripture is specific to us. People keep trying to have the wrong idea about the Bible, like it's got all the answers to every question in the cosmos. It was a book written for us past present and future. It contains still within it we would not begin to comprehend for thousands of years and which certain passages like in Revelations about the New Jerusalem coming down out of the heavens we can now clearly see at least in part was a reference to something about our space age when we get massive interstellar arks long after the age of our founding of the first New Eden.

But as to the very basic nature of Christ Himself no it was not actually a universalist religion in such manner as Judaism itself was not quite yet the universal religion, because God had simply chosen a bunch of barbarian sand dwellers to be a vehicle for His purposes and to go out among the rest of Man as a nation of priests, until likewise the coming of Christ from up out of those people who could likewise bless us into a race of priests and no longer restrict the priesthood to just an ethnicity.

In like manner, in our far distant future when we mature into what will eventually become one of the ancient precursor races shrouded in such myth and legend to this day thirteen billion years from now it will be debated if we ever even existed, that all the younger races could likewise be blessed through us and the other children so as a species we can do for the coming races as Avram once did to the Jews as Abraham, and Christ from the Jews for as a whole. However it would of course make sense that all the other children are on a different sort of case by case basis. It is likely their original sins, if any, differed in nature from ours, or that if there is any universal original sin all sapient races inevitably commit that we've spent our entire history groping in blindness as to the nature of our sin we committed until we can finally compare notes with the others, at least provided we stay non-hostile. It would be a real shame if we had a repeat of Cain on an interstellar scale.
No. 53144
4,5 MB, 5200 × 2720
I don't agree with the assertion people like to make that aliens are going to be hell bent on dismantling resources all over the universe and that they and us are going to have to make Dyson spheres.

It makes no sense. There is clearly a limit to the amount of power and resources we and they actually need and as technology advances that limit will only plateau. They are not going to need to harness their entire sun and tear apart their galaxy, what would that even achieve? If anything an advanced civilization would do it's best to limit the energy and resources that it needs in order to create a perfect and balanced world. They would reach a population that was comfortable to support, find ways to sustainably and comfortably sustain that population and live like that for all time. We already actually see this in real life, most populations stick at a level they feel is comfortable for the nation to support, it's why the population of France hovered at around 20 million for so long until technology increased that comfort level, it's why nations like Japan, Italy and Germany hit a plateau and actually started seeing a reduction in population(though immigration started changing this for Germany).
No. 53149
Aztecs were more of an anomaly on the Mesoamerican context. If the Spanish hadn't arrived they would have been eventually defeated by the other groups that were united by the Spanish and arguably did most of the job. Christianity endured on power but also endured while being the underdog. There's a lot to be said about how technology and numbers allow a culture to impose its beliefs but how convenient those beliefs are is what makes it endure.
No. 53152
OP has also rather conveniently and hilariously been completely oblivious to the actual major factor in wiping out the Americas which is the one thing which is truly relevant to the discussion, namely, that of smallpox. Once a bunch of dirty European diseases started spreading it burned like wildfire and essentially brought about the Black Death to the Americas while Euros had largely developed an immunity to a great deal of the filth we brought over.

This of course is highly relevant given that while it's highly unlikely either of us would be affected by viral analogues, we WILL have an almost immediate mass extinction event if we track the wrong fungal/microbial analogue back home on the bottom of our shoes. Which like I said prior is part of the major reason why I think that life itself is largely going to be the greatest of prizes to any advanced space faring species, particularly any warlike ones, and which oddly enough is another reason why we would be unlikely to get nuked from orbit by anybody. If I'd found earth as a spacefaring race and had a warlike bent one of the first thoughts on my mind would be how to contain the species itself to a stellar blacksite so that I can harvest samples of life codes which I can bring back out to some high security research station beyond the orbit of Pluto where neither I nor the quarantined world known as "Earth" can detect us. Just imagine the gist of some of our very not-scientifically accurate crass fiction like the Orks and virus bombs. We are now talking about the possibility of some innocuous to earth fungus that would be impossible to eradicate and could cause the collapse of ecosystems on their worlds. If you're a star empire with humanlike enough warmongering and imperial traits then enforcing a strict blockade and airbursting a bunch of vials on some rebellious planet would serve as sufficiently horrible example to the others to get in line.

Really I was wondering why this never occurred to OP. By far the greatest threat to our actual contact would be biological cross contamination. It's reasonable to assume any ecosystem and evolutionary path like us enough but separated for billions of years would result in the complete annihilation of one or both biospheres on the level of gamma ray bursts unless and until they few survivors can have developed some immunities and evolutionary countermeasures while also surviving the holocaust of basically ecological collapse.

Sorry I've been listening to 40K lore lately and aside from how much I think 40K is kind of a shit universe, as in I think it's just barely above capeshit more often than not, it always struck me how unimaginative and dumb people are with the obvious alongside a peculiar inability to appreciate scale. Things like referring to 60 million years as "millenia ago" and acting like you can just set down on any planet without nearly all of them with a biosphore likely not getting more idyllic than Catechan. It's not so much that you need incredibly specific parameters for life, but that you need incredibly specific parameters for earth life, and moreover anything from a local microbial infection to your whole biosphore suffering a human infection shows how precarious that balance is and how easily just tweaking a couple of things can almost immediately lead to a species spreading wildly out of control and dooming itself.

The problem is that people like OP are men of their time. It's why most scifi futurism is so wildly off the mark, because they take their own rather specific preconceptions and extrapolate from all those basic assumptions without so much as even taking their own extrapolations to their logical conclusions. It is the mindset of a man where it would even occur to him to ask "what would stop aliens from strip mining us for coal?" Well why on earth would they? It's akin to people pointing telescopes at the sky and not hearing a radio signal and asking "well where are they?" It is the basic assumption that everything is like you, like your culture, and like your time period, and making you into being the norm. You are not the norm.
No. 53155
Well the epidemics were a great factor on the conquering/depopulation of the Americas but for the Aztec conquest they were less of a factor, they were already under siege when the big one broke out.
I don't really think aliens would covet other life forms for warfare purposes, for two reasons: First, while I agree the wrong bacteria or fungus could wipe us out it is notoriusly difficult for a blind process like evolution to make a boilogical agent with the knife edge balance necessary between infectivity and lethality, more so between radically different biochemistries. Second, there could be a novel trait that they could discover in another biosphere (some unknown chemical pathway, some reproduction strategy) that could be "transferred" to their own bioweapons but I suspect that the possibility would be miniscule and they would have bioengineered from first principles long before coming to Earth and running millions of experiments. Nature is not very efficient compared to enlighteed design. All of this assuming that spacefaring civilizations still stick to biological existence for whatever reasons.
Also 40k is all about the grimdark don't try to read much into it as it is all about justifying the atmosphere
No. 53170
Well we did survive all of those viruses. Also, viruses have to evolve alongside the creature they intend to inhabit so it's actually more likely that alien viruses would be completely harmless than that they would wipe us out to a man, we would be a completely novel and compatible lifeform to them. For example, viruses that effect plants are completely harmless to us, we are just too different. Also an alien civilization capable of reaching Earth would have the technology to destroy life in far more certain and less contaminating ways, such as redirecting huge comets to earth or temporarily de-terraforming the planet(which may be necessary for them to live anyway, that's getting into more speculative areas though).

Also, it's actually safer to assume that advanced life would act and think like us than not. We know that humans are capable of getting to where we have, assuming that from a life form with radically different thought and behavioural patterns is speculative. After all, if an alien civilization was totally brutal and lacked any kind of empathy it is likely they would never get to the stage of forming a society at all, even a tribal one.
No. 53171 Kontra
>we would be a completely novel and compatible lifeform to them.

I meant incompatible.
No. 53177
That's why I specifically said virus analogues likely wouldn't affect us, however bacteria and fungi analogues probably would.

Interesting fact, I was reading yesterday that we had a bunch of bald eagles dying of neurodegenerative and couldn't figure out why. It turns out there's a specific species of cyanobacteria growing on an invasive plant that some of their prey eats which releases a highly potent toxin

Microbial life would establish itself on our planet/colonies before we even knew what was going on.
No. 53181
When a new disease crosses the species barrier one of two things happen: Either the new disease burns through all supceptive individuals killing them or the disease is innefective/mild enough that the host species adapts. Only in the first case the species could be wiped out. But I'm a assuming an advanced civilization capable of making bioweapons would also tweak their inmune system/qurantine protocola to be much more efficient so "natural" strategies would be pretty obsolete by then. Bioweapons could be used against lesser civilizations but I think that would hardly require the trouble to have natural reservoirs of biodiversity given that other kinds of weapons could be used against lesser civs, nanotech seems to have all the advantages of bioweapons, for example and its functions should be much more straight forward than messy natural biochemistry
No. 53195
Whatever toxins they have still have to work their way into our system somehow. The Earth is also a big place and whatever makes the toxins would be a living thing so spreading it over the earth would take a very long time if it is even possible at all and still it would be highly likely that places would be missed. And that is if it even works on us at all or if we don't create counter measures. So I think that if this hypothetical super bacteria or fungi could even exist it would be a supporting asset not the way this hypothetical people would kill us on it's own. It would just be like anthrax or any other chemical weapon, it might disrupt us but it still needs following up.
No. 53197
Depending how the machine works, a nano weapon could just become a big galactic problem over time because it could take just one comet or something smashing into the planet to spray it everywhere. Granted it would be on long enough timescales to be largely irrelevant in the scheme of things but still. Organic life however will eventually die. It's not likely anything would survive a trip through space, so it preserves the number one and two rule about weapon development which is never develop something you dont want used against you eventually and don't shoot yourself with your own weapon. I just think a nanoplague has too many drawbacks to actually think about using.

You're forgetting the kinds of timescales were are talking about here. I mean yeah sure you could easily just glass it if you're in a rush, but spraying bioweapons are the kind of thing that unless you had instantaneous portals or the fleet is on standbye in orbit it's really not a problem at all waiting for several years. I suppose it would really work down to circumstances, which could also include the fact that for example simply lobbing a giant piece of rock at us from the Oort cloud or a diverting a nearer object would almost totally commit exterminatus but we would still have the opportunity for seeing it coming, which could give us a chance at stopping it or diverting its trajectory as well as generally lead to detecting it as a weapon in some circumstances if they tried it twice. A bioweapon is a stealth weapon. It would probably be a lot easier to just spray some spores and not have anyone think much of it than others which could also actively damage the planet, although I guess if you wanted to colonize their world for God knows what reason glassing it with something bigger than Chicxulub would do a pretty good job sterilizing the surface but so much microbial life would survive it's still risky.

It's not just toxins. It would be something we had zero experience with not as a species but as a planet in history so it wouldn't be hard for something to just opportunistically invade our bodies and start digesting us. Some microbes basically eat minerals iirc. A fungus like thing could simply infest our body and start growing in us like it would a rotten log and our bodies might have no way of stopping it.

You are right though. But really we're still talking about a lot of this in terms of science fiction and all the movies, books, and videogames we've all been exposed to which is fantastical. In reality if you could not outright fold space into wormholes nothing about space wars would look like our fiction. Not a whole lot even tried to look more realistic, often making it like space is just some small pond to have WWII naval and air battles in. Realistically ships wouldn't be shooting at each other within visual range, warplans would take years with just one comms to our nearest neighbor literally being over 8 years to radio out and hear back from the closest alien planet, the sheer scale of time and distance is so immense nothing can be thought of as like our wars. This is the first mistake OP made. So a truly advanced civilization may have truly longterm plans where our battles are fought not in days weeks or even years but decades or centuries. Galactic Civilizations somewhat did this while still going back to muh warp gates because an aggressive interstellar civilization basically tricked others into building wormhole gates with no off switch to invade their world, and when one species didn't build it they had to physically lug the other end of their warp gate to their system over the course of 50,000 years or something like that.
No. 53733
What you have to say is not that interesting that you need a post as bloated as you to say it.
No. 56287
94 kB, 767 × 767
That's not what survivorship bias means. It is a phenomenon in statistics in which a sample seizes to be representative of a population because individuals below a certain threshold are left out of the sample

Example: among your acquaintances, only Mensa members dare talk to you about their iq: it appears as if your acquaintances have an average iq score of 130+ even though it's probably closer to 100
No. 56288
>The Christians there got removed
Well no. Islam is kind of like a mafia, it recruits you and you can never leave again, this is what happened to egyptians over time.