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„There is no place like home“

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Hail Odin! by Christenklatscher666


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No. 54358
182 kB, 524 × 721
I've been wondering: Americans stereotypically viewed as narrow-minded philistines, yet they are capable of great scientific and technological achievements such as nuclear weapons or computers. Are people wrong about Americans?
No. 54359
923 kB
Complex topic, and beyond menes, I dislike assigning traits to entire ethnic or cultural groups. I recently read this which is kind of related, being on the topic of American scientific development and well worth the read. Core argument is that American science is dominated by two forces, Corporatisation and Militarisation which by their nature severely narrow the scope of science coming from America (and frankly many other places). So I guess my opiniion is less on Americans and more on the American climate, but it is a mix of great potential being funneled into the wrong areas.
No. 54360
I had two thoughts about this:

The people responsible for creating the stereotype arent the people who make scientific discoveries.

You can be a narrow-minded philistine in one area of your life while being a creative thinker in another field.
No. 54361
Americans I met on real life (I work in IT at an oil company, so the people I meet have a degree, are my bosses, etc, so I don't have any contact with the average american) are not stereotyped at all. I found out they are curious, they don't assume things as I thought they would. They are also not generalists, from the organization I work in, I can see that they focus on one area to specialize and dedicate 100% of their focus on it. Also there's heavy adherence to protocols and rules and a huge concern with safety which in contrast to Brazil seems excessive.
No. 54362
>and a huge concern with safety which in contrast to Brazil seems excessive
Maybe that's a result of those incredible high penalties their courts sometimes dish out when people get injured and there weren't over 9000 warning labels everywhere.
No. 54364
>capable of great scientific and technological achievements such as nuclear weapons or computers
Really only the case since around WW2, right?
It helps having a shit ton of funding and siphoning off talent from other places (e.g. Operation Paperclip)
Also nowadays, at least compared to Europe there's less regulations on tech

>stereotypically viewed as narrow-minded philistines
I suppose it goes back to the initial settlers, few of which were exactly cultured people, and the relatively short history of the country in general and therefore not as "sophisticated" tradtions...

Probably a lot to be said but it's a pretty vague topic
No. 54365
>Really only the case since around WW2, right?
Fug off Heinrich :DD
The Americans achieved great things before they stole your rocket scientists.
No. 54366
>Also there's heavy adherence to protocols and rules and a huge concern with safety which in contrast to Brazil seems excessive.
Combination of culture of doing the job right and culture of fearing lawsuits. In general we like work to be within rules and to do things a right way, which gets way more intense the more important or catastrophic the work. A good example of this is our airlines. With the exception of some typical New Yawker ATC or corporate cost cutting measures that assumes "15 aircraft crashes is well within reasonable limits compared to the cost of actually fixing it" our airline industry is a great example of this. We don't like having to do the same thing twice because someone did something fast and loose i.e. stupid. Bad PR and lawsuits helps ensure corporate doesn't like playing so loose with the rules either if it costs more paying out lawsuits. The American fears the lawyer.
No. 54367
Nah. American industrial science was pretty advanced in the mid-19th. They basically wrote the book on how modern industry looks. I've posted extensively in the past about its applications in arms development at the time (the pioneering industry). Fordism, and by descent, much of modern mass production is really a refinement of this earlier Armoury System.

No. 54369
799 kB, 720 × 727
Yeah that seems about right. "Measure twice, cut once".

I don't know if it's related but all of this meticulous planning and compartmentalization really made me think about the military.
I was driving around my city by an army base (we have army bases within city limits, which may sound weird lol). it housed the 5th Supply Battalion. and they had their motto painted on the wall ("To supply! increasingly better") meaning they have a whole group of people dedicated solely to bring supplies from one place to another whenever needed, but also the group is responsible to innovate and come up with ways to do this specific task increasingly better. It fits pretty well in how the company I work for is organized and how I view americans in my company. We have people that will invest decades of their life into learning and specializing into a specific department and will come up with a lot of great ideas on how to improve it, but will plan it meticulously, thinking of every scenario in which this new idea will break rules or infringe any protocol.
No. 54370
Strange that I could never guess what that would mean without the post.
No. 54371
How do they call it there?
No. 54372
Comando da Logística, Suprimento/Suprir would be equivalent to Abastecimento/Abastecer.
No. 54379 Kontra
1,6 MB, 825 × 784
>Americans stereotypically viewed as narrow-minded philistines, yet they are capable of great scientific and technological achievements

Because of funding and other good conditions for researchers and scientists to do their work? Look up the RAND corporation, just one example. Ironically, as another German already said, Computers and Nuclear bombs are mainly attributed to émigrés. Though centering a history of science on "great minds" is just one way to tell history and it's not a very good one. It's comparable to Musk fandom.
And I thought we've been over the whole burger huehue discussion.
No. 54381
Well a lot of it has to do with our heavy intertwining with the military particularly since the entrenchment of the military industrial complex in WWII. Muricans like to go on and on about muh markets but in actuality a great deal of our world changing advances had to do with the military somehow both organizationally and financially, from radar to nuclear power to the internet and personal computing. So there's also that.
>base within city limits
Only because it's so small. It's rather routine to see uniformed soldiers wherever you are here and it's not just thank-you-for-your-service+tip.png but also just general American militarisation of everything. Our military installations are usually fuckhuge. A lot of them are bigger than our smallest states iirc. I do know there's some airfield right near here which in addition to our engineering and industrial base or formerly as it was in Cold War that I'm probably going to be dead within the first 30 minutes of a nuclear exchange and this is common throughout the country. There's more military bases here than probably any country on earth and usually they're too large to be inside a mere city.
No. 54385
I don't think narrow mindedness is a part of the American stereotype at all

The negative stereotypes of this kind are rather about ignorance about other countries, rather than intelligence or intellectual curiosity in general
No. 54386
This. They don't seem capable of grasping that there's a world outside the US.
That is how you get stuff like "representation matters", "cultural appropriation", "latinx" and so on. Or people complaining about "racist stereotypes" such as Speedy Gonzalez, when people in Mexico love him.
Imo it's just another aspect of cultural imperialism.
>We are not able to look outside our own narrow view of the world, so everyone else must conform to it.
No. 54387 Kontra
You just cut out US history and take a shortcut out of nowhere willy nilly to cultural imperialism which is basically according to your word choice a form of Antiamerikanismus (Anti-Americanism), unsurprisingly. The identity politics you hate come from people who are not Americans so to speak. What you think is an American cultural imperialist operation, is born out of US history, and minorities in other countries thought it's useful for them as well. Why does it always have to be a kind of conspiracy that ideas spread? Liberals picked up on it, which is another issue altogether.
No. 54390
348 kB, 1080 × 1701
>The identity politics you hate come from people who are not Americans so to speak.
No, what are they then?

>What you think is an American cultural imperialist operation, is born out of US history, and minorities in other countries thought it's useful for them as well.
I was just discussing the most recent manifestation of american cultural imperialism. Before woke bullshit it was "democracy", in the sense of McDonalds in Russia and such. The point is that they try to export that way of thinking into parts of the world that work completely differently. And in essence, it's the same line of thinking that made colonization possible. "We know better than anyone else and thus must teach them our ways", see pic related for example. This person obviously has no problem bombing other people because they have a different way of life. This person might even consider them backwards or savages. Which is the same as any colonizer considering any tribe a bunch of backwards savages.

And right BECAUSE it was born out of US history, it is so specific that it is NOT applicable to other countries' minorities just like that. It's the easiest way because it's already predefined, but that doesn't mean it's actually fitting. For example, why were there BLM demos in Germany, Poland, Austria, Denmark and so on? None of these countries have a history of slavery and "institutional racism" like the US does. Sure, we had Deutsch-Südwestafrika, but we didn't bring over slaves and put them into ghettos and then declined them education, housing and so on. If a black person in Germany is bad at school, it is most likely because they're dumb, not because their teachers are evil racists.
In fact, I could tell you some anecdotal evidence about the opposite where an african cleaning lady who doesn't do a good job and doesn't seem to have any concept of hygiene, yet never gets reprimanded or anything because nobody dares to say anything out of fear being called racist.
No. 54391
887 kB, 2048 × 1430
>None of these countries have a history of slavery and "institutional racism" like the US does.
Lel :DD

I get what you're saying though, these concepts seem somewhat alien and out of touch with local realities but I suppose it's more out of people being culturally Americanized so they respond more to these America-centric discussions.
Then again, it could be worse.
No. 54396
> Germany, Poland, Austria, Denmark and so on? None of these countries have a history of slavery and "institutional racism" like the US does.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. I think this is not an issue of export but adoption by minorities outside the US because of experienced racism. The experience of being treated in a way because of your skin color or your accent or whatever.

>into parts of the world that work completely differently.

Why do you think so? Germany and other European countries have a history of immigration, surely they did not caught or bought people, importing them to work on their cotton fields. Nonetheless they brought people here, especially in Germany the case of the Gastarbeiter. Racism is nothing exclusive to the US but you treat it as such.
You want to know why there are BLM demos? It's simply treated as an act of solidarity, not sure if your nationalist brain can handle that. I'm not saying it is the most fruitful enterprise btw. I'm just explaining to you why things happen.
No. 54397 Kontra
33 kB, 1496 × 170
>No, what are they then?

The ideas they built upon are mostly from outside the US.
No. 54398
Are you one of those people who think the Frankfurt School was a bunch of SJWs?
No. 54399 Kontra

Are brown people here Germans to you?
No. 54400 Kontra
No, Critical Theory is far away from being SJW.
No. 54401 Kontra
I need to talk to you about your connections to the Iranian secret service and Area 51 ASAP
No. 54402 Kontra
>For example, why were there BLM demos in Germany, Poland, Austria, Denmark and so on?
Because a) solidarity b) racial profiling and racist police controls and police brutality exist in all of those countries as well.
No. 54403
I knew that argument would come. Ok, by that definition there are only a few million americans left because everyone else is an immigrant mutt. Satisfied now?
Also, if a brown person considers themselves german, talks german and lives like a german I can accept them as such. I will never accept anyone as german who feels like switching deutsch sein/araba sein at will.
>Hurr durr Integration ja, Assimilation nein
Plus, Germany is, despite what some politicians are saying, NOT an immigration country.

Hmmmm, maybe racial/ethnic profiling exists for a reason? And please, show me the horrible police brutality in Germany. Again, completely different conditions. You can hardly compare an american policeman with a german policeman.
Yeah, with those kind of people solidarity stops when they can't do it publicly and show how good of a person they are.
No. 54404 Kontra
>Plus, Germany is, despite what some politicians are saying, NOT an immigration country.

Cool argument.
Besides, I said it has an immigration HISTORY, a history that is not of minor scope.

>You can hardly compare an american policeman with a german policeman.

Nobody said that German police brutality is exactly like American police brutality?
No. 54405 Kontra
>lives like a german

what is that supposed to mean?
No. 54408 Kontra
>a history that is not of minor scope
What is that supposed to mean? Or are you talking about the tired "hurr durr vandal migration" thing?

>Nobody said that German police brutality is exactly like American police brutality?
I hate people who end statements with question marks. It makes you look like a tool. That said, you implied it very clearly. And you still have to provide example of german polic brutality.
No. 54409
>who end statements with question marks.

Your ad hominem does not help here. It's a simple (rhetorical) question (who said that?) entailing a statement (that). I know the phenomenon you want to subject me to, but it simply misses the mark.

>"hurr durr vandal migration" thing?

? What do you mean?

I just said Germany has an immigration history that you cannot just ignore. That history contains racism in different forms as a phenomenon in Germany for example. Just like racism plays out in US history, not in the exact same form of course. But identity politics are not exclusively revolving around a history of slavery but deals with, among other things, racism in general. And that is why German minorities can adopt certain politics, arguments, and views from a supposedly American phenomenon. This is still a wrong statement as it ignores the theoretical and political history behind it, it is the US that adopted many things from Europeans, but also SEA, Africa, and so on. Yes, it's big in the US, that might help voices here). But I think you underestimated that anti-racism, anti-imperialism for instance has a history in Europe or Germany as well. You treat it like a cultural import that was implanted in a sterile milieu, which is bullshit, you just don't know your milieu and its history but assume something to make up for your lack of knowledge.
What is even worse you think we had no institutional racism like the US, yet you (tellingly) spare out the Third Reich and instead try to relatives with some German colonial history. In both cases, it's history that can have longer roots and also reach up into the present, in the US it apparently does. You say in Germany it is not the case, simply not true. It will be pretty easy to find historic sources that will show off German racism after WW2.
No. 54410 Kontra
>That said, you implied it very clearly.
It was not the other Ernst it was me. And no, I did not. Why would I, it's quite obvious that overall America has a bigger problem with police brutality and racist police brutality than Germany does. However that doesn't mean it's non-existent here or not relevant. Other European countries have a seperate agency to investigate possible misbehavior of police officers and I think Germany should install a similar institution to tackle such problems (Staatsanwaltschaft is not actually seperate, they are in tight cooperation with the police).

>And you still have to provide example of german polic brutality.
>Laut offiziellen Angaben der Staatsanwaltschaften wird davon ausgegangen, dass es 2018 zu 2000 Fällen von rechtswidriger Polizeigewalt gekommen ist.
Of course those are just the officially recognised incidents, the real numbers are higher (and no, before you bring it up: not all incidents of police brutality have a racist connotation, not even all such cases against non ethnically Germans do:
>In 55 Prozent der Fälle waren es Einsätze bei Demonstrationen, bei 25 Prozent war der Anlass eine Großveranstaltung wie ein Fußballspiel.)

Some cases and possible cases of racist police incidents are collected here:

Why there isn't much data on the subject:

Obviously you will now probably go on and somehow try to delegitimize those links, e. g. write "KOP is not a neutral source" (which indeed it is not, just like the police or police unions aren't) or "they had it coming by acting in a certain way" (this is no justification for unnecessary use of force by trained supposed professionals, if you have a short fuse you are not suitable for that kind of police work). We could then continue this debate further and further, but I think that would only shit up the board, so I'm out at this point.
No. 54412
> I was just discussing the most recent manifestation of american cultural imperialism. Before woke bullshit it was "democracy", in the sense of McDonalds in Russia and such.
It's only 1-st world lefties (usually Americans) who care about "cultural imperialism" and see opening McDonalds as act of oppression. Countries other than America sometimes "let savages be savages" (just like USA has no problems with Saudi Arabia because they are American allies), but they have no moral trouble in civilizing them. USSR civilized middle Asia. China enforces their cultural standards on uighurs and tibetians (with more brutal ways than opening McDonalds and showing Hollywood films).
And "letting people to chose how they should live" is a politically correct term for "letting local dictator to tell people how they should live".
No. 54416
Oh Christ
>For example, why were there BLM demos in Germany, Poland, Austria, Denmark and so on?
Like what the fuck, don't blame us for your countrymen acting like dumbasses. I could just so easily point to the fact you have a bogan riding around with MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN on his auto and some Germans parading around like complete faggots burning masks in a pandemic. That's not our fault that you guys ape us.

Honestly part of the problem is a more recent mindset entrenched by first of all muh free world leader and effectively being the superpower of the whole Wect for damn near a century, and secondly being the undisputed superpower for 40 years now. That breeds a hideous mindset of complacency and resting on your laurels here which is how you get america bear, how you get this mindset of assumptions, about self righteousness, and just about every cancerous attitude foreigners hate about us, which is amplified by the fact america is so big so we don't actually have a reason to visit the rest of the world.
>but muh tourism muh cultural curiosity
We had this discussion many times and I cannot afford to just go to yurop for shits and giggles it will cost me five fucking grand to just take a vacation when I could pay $500 here and invest the other $4500 to make my wealth grow. Make of that statement what you will.

But as for the other stuff that is because no one apparently knows anymore what made America so successful and that is why you get foreigner cargo culting us in every stupid thing we do. I remember one cube I was talking to being horrified by our "lol just drink raw water it's organic and good for you" crap seeping into Israel. People just look at America and automatically assume we know what we are doing. Lol no we don't. A lot of citisenry are indeed stupid as shit and it is partly because it is financially and politically expedient for our rulers to keep them dumb as shit and so they don't even know how to find accurate knowledge at all anymore.

This is not a left/right kulturkampf issue. It is the rot of decadent empires filled with fools who never had to suffer or work hard enough in the right ways. People work hard, but stupidly. Then foreigners like Brazil meet the actually competent Americans and some of them just sort of expect if they are so smart at X and good at doing Y then surely they must be a professional and correct about Z when Z happens to be bug chasing in a pandemic because Fox told them masks are Communism or some stupid shit and running around putting their bloodline on hormone blockers.

The real problem with Americans, I think, in that murica-foreigner interface level, is exactly that Americans have a habit of at once being smart and capable and also so stupid as shit or outright psychotic in their beliefs it becomes difficult to tell if they are joking or not. The result is then you have other foreigners deciding to parade around our dumb domestic issues as if it has anything fuckall to do with them.
>black lives matter!
>says the German
Because obviously Germany has a long and sordid history of importing black people to pick cotton and fought a war and then has decades of German police running around shooting black people. Of course.

No. So the biggest irony perhaps is you guys sit here accusing us of all these stupid fucking things and making stupid as fuck assumptions about us while telling us how awful murica is for thinking every country in the world must be murica, when your very example is your own idiotic countrymen themselves blithely assuming the world and their own country must be murica.

I think this is really just a lack of faith in yourselves at this point. Like the whole EU wants to act like murica when as I've pointed out earlier Europe has an incredibly different history to us and should do things their own way, which is compounded by euro progressivists somehow assuming multiculturalism is what we did when the reality was we used assimilation into muttistan here and that is as a nation of immigrants. In terms of what the German said about never considering some Arab speaking Arabic a Germany he is entirely correct, because it is neither an ethnic German, nor speaks German, nor culturally is German, so he is nothing but German fluent. We call those people tourists here. Alternatively, we call those migrant workers Mexicans, because they're literally not Americans and many have no interest in being Americans.

Europe needs to figure out its place in the world again and that includes ignoring our stupid shit or Europeans assuming all of Europe is America. As to anyone there, they should be forced to assimilate or they can fucking leave because that is what we did, and in EU is different because each state is a separate country with millenia of history and distinctiveness. I think they should figure out how they want that distinctiveness to grow together into the future, and stop concerning themselves with us and whatever dumb fad we have, be it mask burning, trannyism, drinking raw water, whatever.
No. 54418
Please see my above remarks. We are not talking about addressing racism at this point. We are talking about pure cargo culting and whole world must be muricaism at this point. No dude, not one single one of the fucking countries you just mentioned has cops shooting thousands of people a year. You do not have German police shooting black people in the back of the head. You may have racism, sure. But it's not your problem. These are not your problems. You are viewing it through this twisted lens of American corporate media and all the retards spouting domestic kulturkampf online. Seriously you may as well just take Turkish Cypriot issues or Brasilian domestic issues to be your own at that point. Adopting the stance of some faction or ideological trashcan here is basically retarded no matter how honest your intentions may be. It's like watching these foreigners parading around with Confederate flag patches or something. You just look and wonder what the hell.

BLM is ultimately not a police brutality movement at this point. It is a racially motivated racial solidarity movement. It's not that I think they're wrong or don't support them necessarily, but I know full well if I got shot by the cops a number of these assholes would just stand there thinking "GOOD now you know wut it feels like whitey." I'm not talking about the reasonable people. I mean who the media is pushing so it can be a source of discord rather than uniting people in the country around the fact our policy is shit, and our policing is shit partly out of design because they recruit shit people fire or force out the not-shit people and all the while expect cops to deal with shit like medical issues or mental health issues that isn't their fucking jobs.

You will notice I said "our." That is because OUR policing is OUR problem. No you don't fucking have anything like this in your countries Germany boy. I'm not even black and yeah am I going to get gunned down by cops for something stupid like talking on my cell phone does go through my mind. I can absolutely guranfucking tee you that you have never walked around your streets with a sincere fear the cops will murder you. I have. Our police is our systemic problem. Race has been baked into that and is part of our complex deeply ingrained shitty history and shitty problems. Frankly I disdain the whole obsession with race at all and cringe when I see our racial politics imported elsewhere, probably encouraged because it ensures division within the masses.

Oppression and financial exploitation aren't the same and yes that is exactly what murica saw opportunity to do to Russia after USSR fell. Also pretty cringe because McDonalds is fucking disgusting and I know that dubious slop somehow became associated as bourgeois right of passage or something. I think it would be a lot cooler to open underground franchises under USSR and particularly hip Russians only could eat the burger after saying the password like culinary speakeasies. Yeah that I'd do.
No. 54423 Kontra
Dissing USA is one of the worst errors Europeans can make. Europe is pathetic in this manner

Muh culchure
Muh antiquidy

Get lost Europe, as if you were so cultured.
No. 54437 Kontra
You're using the word bogan wrong. Stop cargo culting off of our shit.
No. 54613
Not a fan of fast food, but your post made me want to walk to McDonalds.