/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

Currently at Radio Ernstiwan:

Hail Odin! by Christenklatscher666


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No. 55814
21 kB, 618 × 496
Did any Ernst here successfully stopped with porn and with capping (for the most part, doesn't need to be not rapping at all, just a more normal level)?

Please tell me your secrets. I basically can't go to sleep without doing it anymore.
No. 55815 Kontra

Goddamn text correction. I think you know what I meant.
No. 55821
Taking double dose of SSRIs completely killed my libido for a while.
I also spilled some paint thinner on my dick which caused chemical burns, so that's been helping too.
No. 55822
No, I'm too horny.
No. 55827
The idea that you can successfully stop after you've reached a state that resembles an addiction is the wrong idea. From here on it will be a struggle not to fap and it won't ever become a "solved problem". I've been watching porn for about 20 years and had addictive behaviour patterns for maybe half that time. And the decision that I'd need to stop came only within the last few years, ever since which it's been a struggle. You can try to go cold turkey, but in my experience that will lead to a pendulum of phases with increasing intensity: Staying "clean" for a few days, then relapsing hard for one day, then back to "regular" consumption, then the next phase of staying "clean".

What helped me the most was to put myself in situations where I simply can't watch porn because I'm around people and then when I'm alone release the urge with a quick fap but without porn.

This requires discipline because what you essentially have to do is to let go of something that a very dominant part of your brain considers to be a "good thing". Letting go of things that feel good (to some part of your brain) is difficult. You can ask anyone who has dealt with substance abuse.

One of the most tricky things for me was to stop the rationalisations my mind came up with to uphold the idea that I wasn't addicted and thus did not have to make any uncomfortable changes to my daily routines.

The most tricky thing afterwards was the easy availability of porn and the abundance of triggers in every kind of media.

tl;dr You can't just stop, you can only begin to struggle and keep up that struggle and then accept relapses when they happen and pick up the struggle again. It will eventually become easier but it might take years and even then the next relapse will eventually come.
No. 55828 Kontra
You should stop conflating porn and fapping into one thing, and also stop listening to that nofap broscience bullshit.

Sure, porn can become an "addiction", but it's not like it's heroin where you're going through severe withdrawals, since the reason you are watching porn is because you jerk off so much.
However, you can jerk off without anything. You can jerk off watching the trees and the clouds.
Jerking off is natural.
I have gf, have sex on the regular and still jerk off.
What you need to do though is getting rid of the death grip. Just lightly holding your dick in your hand, just getting enough friction for something to happen, is enough. Sure it takes longer, but the payoff is better.

Now with that out of the way, get a hobby, meet people and use your horniness on real women.
No. 55835
also, it'd be more useful to figure out how to curb imageboard and internet addiction.

like, how much time a day do you spend fapping or looking at porn? I bet much less than mindlessly refreshing message boards and social media.
No. 55846 Kontra
I feel like I've seen you post similar things before.
>it's natural
Not really and just because something is natural doesn't make it good.

I do question however to what extent both porn and jerking off permanently deforms your brain, because if you grew up with no female siblings, did not have female cousins, did not have female peers, did not have high school gf, and god help you no college gf, then I think that by the time you hit your 20s the damage could've be done. It's true most nofap is broscience tier bs largely designed around the idea of you feeling more masculine and preying on those insecurities, however the actual problem is it warps the way you see women. I'd kind of expect an ordinary guy eventually giving off really creepy vibes and stares because his brain got reshaped into thinking of them as sex objects, plus like 90% of porn is needlessly grotesque and dirty and degrading.

Would I say it's natural? No. What is natural is playing around with the other village kids and provided you don't catch some terrible disease knocking up the first girl you bed as a teenager then having kids. That is what's natural. Jerking off in your 20s, not having kids, watching porn, having antibiotics, and having any kind birth control is conpletely and wildly unnatural. If you're having sex with your girlfriend with a condom or she has a IUD you're having wildly unnatural sex. Just because it's natural doesn't make it fine. Antibiotics are a good thing, minus rampant population problem.

It was literally a religous thing because people didn't know wtf caused disease if it was disease or angry spirits so they codified what they assumed to be certain health and hygiene standards so as not to piss off the gods or cause a societal collapse. Included here is gay sex because it is ultra dirty, as well as fornicating because lacking rubbers meant you might have kids with someone you didn't want to raise kids with, and if you got lucky then sleeping around and having this godawful hookup culture meant rampant STDs with no cures and al of that was perfectly natural.

I will say however the one thing that is also really natural and usually a good thing is your first leaves a deep imression on you, which makes sense for creating those bonds to raise a family. I don't know how much fapping decays that.
No. 55847 Kontra
This too. Probably using solely a desktop PC than mobile or laptop would help curb all that.
No. 55850 Kontra
Yeah, I have probably posted similar things before, since this is a recurring topic.
And I stand by it, fapping is perfectly natural and if it's not all you do it's also not unhealthy in any way. And you are also conflating wanking with porn. You can have a perfectly good wank without even seeing tits.

Also, this whole "natural/not natural" discussion is never going to lead anywhere. Is living in cities natural? Is spending your whole time in front of a screen natural? Is being an american natural? It's all bullshit, all of it.

If you are a man with a high virility you basically have no choice, unless the woman you're with is a nympho. But I just can't get my gf to have sex twice or three times a day, so I need to find another outlet.

If someone is a creepy sperg who watches too much porn and faps too much, the porn and fapping are a symptom, not the cause.
No. 55865
I'd say you are excluding the possibility that what you consume has an effect on you when you say things like

>If someone is a creepy sperg who watches too much porn and faps too much, the porn and fapping are a symptom, not the cause.

Seeking dopamine highs is a thing and porn of the internet age is constantly developing into easier access to those highs. It's not heroine, no. You can still fall into the trap of slowly increasing "regular" consumption until you learn to depend on your daily dose of porn for your high. The development is much more subtle than with most substances, which also makes it harder to figure out before you're in too deep.

I'm not saying that all porn will transform all brains of all people into degenerates or that for many people suffering porn addiction there is an already addictive personaly that simply manifests in porn addiction. Or that porn consumption can't ever be healthy.

But we shouldn't ignore those who would never develop the addictive behaviour unless they are exposed to this overabundance of easy-access porn on the internet.
No. 55870
>Not really
This is what protestantism does to a motherfucker.
No. 55885
And whose fault was that?
No. 56087
8 kB, 218 × 231
I was first exposed to porn in my early teens, it turned into a heavy addiction when I left home around 19. Now, at 28, I am free from porn addiction for around 6 months and have no desire to start with it again.

For me, the process of quitting involved three aspects:
-Years of shame, disgust and disappointment in myself (should be pretty easy for you)
-A longer period (around a year I guess?) of trying to limit porn, using it only once a week or so with the inevitable relapses
-Reading this site/book: https://easypeasymethod.org/

After reading the book (you have to start in the beginning and work yourself through to the very end), I lost the desire to use pornography again. I combined that with some of the methods mentioned throughout the book (affirmations etc.) over the next few weeks. Afterwards, the only thing I masturbated to were my own thoughts and memories. I really recommend you read this book and follow its advice - it is very actionable and will do great things for you if let it.

Best of luck to you Ernst. You are going to make it.
No. 56088
I fap to completion without porn now.
It's still not that easy to avoid watching it before, and it really is everwhere on the net.

No. 56148
Thanks for sharing that book, got curious and ended up reading it. I suppose I'm what it refers to as a casual user & the main palpable negative effect I feel is that it dampens my desire to look for real romantic relationships - but I suppose that should be enough by itself. I can't say I fully agree with everything written, but it did strengthen my resolve to quit porn.
No. 56149
No. 56165
119 kB, 632 × 857
I'm glad you are trying to get better. It may sound odd, but you might want to try rereading it and internalize its messages. Also, do the affirmations.

To me, the main point wasn't so much that porn has negative effects of you - you likely knew that much already. The main point of the book is that there are no positive aspects whatsoever. It's not doing anything for you. It's not even fun. It makes you feel horrible after consuming it. So why bother with it at all? Once you have internalized that point, quitting is so easy, so obvious that it won't even feel like a challenge.
No. 56185
Different ernst here. I want to point out that what you say is not a given. Even though porn is a net-negative for me and I want to quit, it does give me something at times. Like it may give me motivation to start working because I've told myself I can't fap before I've done at least one hour of work.

That's not a justification for porn, but it's a mistake to ignore that factor as it means giving up porn also means giving up something that sometimes can be good for you. That creates additional barriers in your mind when it comes to quitting.
No. 56186
"Porn gives me pleasure" was my initial thought. But that's not really true is it, my body does that on it's own. I can feel that without using porn, the photos and videos are just a novelty, a curiosity.
No. 56190
Your example boils down to "rewarding" yourself with something destructive in order to promote a habit loop for productive behavior (work). Pornography is not at all essential to that process. You could choose any other reward - an hour of relaxation in the evening sun, a cold glass of Kefir, meeting a good friend. Choosing pornography as your "reward" is highly suboptimal programming, even if it may lead to you getting some work done in the short-term.

Habit-building literature (e.g. "Atomic Habits") suggests choosing rewards that are in harmony with your personal development goals. I think that makes a lot of sense - you're not just working to kill time or to achieve basic subsistence, you are working towards a goal. And as you yourself have stated, that goal includes not watching porn.

Pretty much, yes. Very similar to all those "useful" gadgets depressed housewives used to buy from teleshopping channels (I guess they're just buying online these days) The sandwich maker! The onion cutter! Three different blenders when all you really need is one good knife. When you quit porn, your mind turns inwards, to your memories and fantasies. More than enough to get you extremely aroused, if you so desire.
No. 56192
I think it's weird to think about porn in those terms in the first place. it's just a biological function, it's neither satan or high art.
this is like having in depth discussions about the morality of sneezing.

Sometimes my balls feel heavy, so I crank one out, and forget about it.
takes all of 10 minutes

t. fast shooter.
No. 56195

I guess people just want some simple magic trick to make their life better. "Stop cooming or at least cooming on porn and you'll become alpha male, healthy, successful and happy". But it's rather a symptom: if you spend much time watching porn, then find something to do (job or hobby), go outside.
No. 56207
Honestly what I just think is that like any other malign habit it's not so much a problem 9f being immediately obvious or destructive as it is the issue of insidiousness. Like let us forget for example all the much broader problems which is that in a sense you "profit" off human misery and exploitation while enabling the exploiters to profit also notwithstanding Capitalism blah blah, a good number of women involved in this are addicted to drugs and it is altogether damaging to their lives but even on the individual consumer level it is it immediately apparent at first. It begins digging grooves in your brain, creates ways of seeing and perceiving while debasing yourself. It is like heroin in that you do not get addicted to it on your first try, or even after several tries, but begin subtly worming its way into your thinking and altering ways of seeing and perceiving yourself and other people, your life and goals and value of everything that is around you.

I think focusing on anything "destructive" is utter fucking nonsense when it comes to the consumption end, but that it is moreover far worse than destruction because at least then you'd see the immediate aftermath.
No. 56209
Yeah also this. I don't think it's ultimately that strange things like nofap would end up appealing to the same sort of incel retards as 4channers and bernds, because my observation for years has been that basically they all want to find some "become rich happy and successful and get the girl with this one simple trick" or something like that to blame rather than the obvious which is to actually put in the hard work and effort, like for example getting a hobby, working out, getting good at something, changing behavior, working on the awful part of their personality etc. Instead all they want to do is eat onions or listen to some podcast or not jack off for a week or blame their shortcomings on height while claiming all the achievements of people they have nothing to do with because they share the same race or gender or something. It wouldn't surprise me if there's some corollary between people like that and getting raised in these cheap trashy "salvation by faith alone" environments surrounded by scams and gimmicks.

Also furthermore it isn't just about the porn itself. That's only a symptom. It has more to do with objectification, immediate gratification, viewing yourself and others etc.
No. 56213
>Your example boils down to "rewarding" yourself with something destructive in order to promote a habit loop for productive behavior (work). Pornography is not at all essential to that process.

You missunderstood me there. My post was not meant to justify porn consumption, but to point out a problem: It's much harder to get rid of a behaviour that your mind has reasons to protect because it has proven useful.
No. 56215
Do you need these cliches as crutches for your ideology or ego? Asking for a friend.
No. 56226 Kontra
>people on casey and northpole aren't like people on casey and northpole
No. 56230
Yes, it is harder to get rid of behavior that you subconsciously associate with productivity. Although honestly, that whole description sounds like a bit of a cope to me. Either way though, you won't reach the goal (quitting) through objective reasoning and intellectual arguments. The key lies in forming strong convictions and affirming them. Like a prayer if you will.

Yes, not jacking off will not turn you into some sort of hypermasculine demigod. Just like taking one step won't let you run a marathon. Ceasing behavior that is addictive and completely warps your view of others as well as yourself is an excellent first step. Nofap movement may be cringe, but there clearly is a huge crowd of pornography addicts that urgently need its help in their lives. Think of it like AA or whatever. It just werks.
No. 63499
learn how to relate with people and have some sex

you'll then realize watching porn and masturbating is a huge waste of time, and it could even be bad for you if it turns you into a disgusting or unpleasant human being
No. 63501 Kontra
The problem is if youre the kind of person who isn't married either. Why would anyone want a buildup of sex on the mind in their daily life? I think no sex and no jerking it for months on end could have some awful results. Like, you would probably end up leering at people or start acting weird sort of thing. I think of it more as needing to drop one off at the pool sort of thing, and going a year seems like it might be getting constipated. I morally and philosophically support no fap, I just personally haven't gotten at the point where I think it's wise to do it, particularly because not jerking off for a year would probably make any man weak toward women. Then again, if you want to fornicate and engage in hook up culture then yeah, but if that's the case why would you even care about porn or masturbating in the first place?
No. 63521
I'm not sure masturbating regularly has any permanent effect on your brain, I think the people who "masturbate too much" are the ones who have reasons, valid or not, to do so.

Once those reasons stop existing, the urge to continue masturbating will naturally dissapear. Some of the reasons that come to my mind right now:

  1. Not knowing how to relate with other people.
  2. Not having enough sex to know it's worth and how much worse masturbation is when compared to that.
  3. Being an antisocial, for one cause or the other, because masturbation is an inherently private action, it's like going to the bathroom. When you masturbate, you disconect from the rest of the world, if you're antisocial that's fine for you, but if you are not, that's another reason why not to do it.
  4. Reason 4 is like the sum of reason 2 and reason 3: if you have sex regularly, you know that you had to relate to other people to get it, and if you masturbate you know that it is an inherently antisocial activity, at least if you do it regularly. So you know if you keep masturbating instead of relating with people and turning yourself into a valious human being, you'd end up wasting more oportunities to have real sex, and this, in itself, is another reason why not to do it.
  5. Masturbating too much can turn you into a disgusting human being, because of your higyene, and into an unpleaseant human being too, because you get used to treating people like sexual objects, like they are all actors in a porn movie.
If you don't have reasons like these, then why would you change your routine, considering that masturbation, after all, actually feels good?
No. 63522
Part of the problem is also that people approach this subject with an absolutist mindset: masturbation can be either good or bad, period. So if it's good, there can never be too much of it; if it's bad, even a single masturbation session per year is unnaceptable. As with most other things, moderation is they key to not turn the desire to have sex into something harmful for you or other people, while also not living a miserable life because you can never relax and feel some pleasure from time to time.
No. 63524
I think the only real difference between masturbating with your own thoughts or doing it with porn is that you can have more control of your sexual fantasies so you don't feel so bad after it because you had a morally objectionable sexual fantasy; it also helps you to not let your own behaviour be influenced by it.

This doesn't mean, however, than masturbating while watching pornography is something bad in itself, as you can always just watch vanilla porn and get it over with. The problem, in any case, is that the mass difussion of pornography on the internet makes it easier to have access to morally objectionable pornography, and thus, to morally objectionable sexual fantasies.
No. 63525
it is precisely your hook ups (or your serious relationships, if you manage to have one) the ones who serve as a motivation ("I'll not masturbate to have some energy to have sex later") and as a reason ("why would I masturbate if I could hook up again?") to not masturbate
No. 65044 Kontra
Good posts.
I thought I was fine but over the holidays I was kinda depressed and fapped too much and to some nasty stuff to boot. Got to the point that I drunkenly masturbated on the way home outside in the bushes, so that was a bit of a reality check.
Been mulling it over and came to some similar conclusions, just leaving this post here as a New Year's Resolution of sorts.