/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

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No. 5712
150 kB, 445 × 640
We had a small discussion a while back. I thought it might be interesting to give it its own thread.

I don't really play because of no frens, but I've recently been working on a cube for Magic. It's a pretty fun exercise really, especially with my stipulation that all cards must be modern border because I want a more uniform look to the list rather than a mix of very different frame designs. I don't know if I'll even bother to ever put it together in real life but filling out a spreadsheet of cards, comparing them and seeding the various archetypes while maintaining the desired power level and 'feel' of the set is really fun in an autistic kind of way. Probably less fun if you don't enjoy what is essentially game design, a whole lot of crunching numbers and not a whole lot of actually playing the game.

I also like hex wargaming but only play PC versions because no frens, let alone grognard frens who will play non-miniature based wargames. From what I understand, it's pretty much all Warhammer and games similar to it around here. Then again, with how I like to take a break and think over a turn for a good while before executing the attacks, it's probably best that I don't play with real people. I've wanted to try ASL for a long time, but that game is so ungodly expensive that it's not really worth it when you can get entire games for less than some of their factional expansions.

Do other Ernsts like tabletop gaming? That can be board games, card games, whatever. What ones do you play and/or enjoy? Any particular aspects?
No. 5718
A friend gave me a MTG box for birthday and I gave him a pretty good deck.

Now we play MTG in a party of three every week or so.

If you have online frens, use octgn for magic.
No. 5725
Tbh, cube design is more fun than I ever had actually playing the game when I used to. It'd be good for a regular group too. You don't need a big cube for a three person group. You'd shuffle up smaller packs, I think 5 packs of 9 is the standard for 4 players for example, which retains the same pace of picks as full sized packs in an 8 player pod, but you'd probably only need a 180 card cube for regular drafting, and over time you could bump it up to 360 for more variation between drafts. It's also very affordable if you go the route of a peasant or pauper cube where everything is either common/uncommon or just common respectively. Especially so in Europe where MCM drives prices rock bottom while in the US/Australia even commons have a generally held minimum price of 20-25 cents (in Europe it's usually about half that). That basically means you can build a 180 card pauper cube which can still be lots of fun mind you, for under $50 pretty easily. Even less if you already have many of the cards you want.

My current cube is 360 cards and is being designed along similar lines to an official format. Lots of the cards are draft all stars even if not constructed staples which is the feel I want to go for. A good limited format rather than a really busted one like many cubes tend to go for.

What deck do you play by the way? My last deck that I used for a sanctioned constructed tournament was a super spicy UW tempo build back in INN-RTR standard. Theros standard was cancer that was basically 2 decks only. I mostly drafted from then until Conspiracy (best draft format ever btw) and then I stopped playing for various reasons like increasing mental illness :-D
No. 5730
I recently played Age of Conan with 3 others and it took like 6 hours because american games are notoriously bad at explaining the rules.

Game was fun in the end, but I'd rather have just played a round of Twilight Imperium.
No. 5734
98 kB, 500 × 662
>american games are notoriously bad at explaining the rules.
I dunno. It might be different outside of wargames, but I often find American wargaming to be a lot better laid out than Eurogames. Especially when you read something like an older Avalon Hill game where everything is bullet pointed and referenced. Plus modern European wargames have a disturbing lack of CRTs and a disturbing overabundance of card-driven gameplay which makes me sads.

Also, you Germans might be interested seeing as it's set in Germany, but there is a new game based on an advanced version of the Downtown system coming out set over Central Germany in 1987. If you like air combat, it'll be great. Downtown itself is also great if you can find a copy. It'll be less complicated due to the aircraft systems being not as advanced, but it's still a nice, complex game to play. Here is a playtest AAR http://www.insidegmt.com/?p=16070
No. 5752
I dropped warhammer 40k long ago. Than I only reading stuff but now quality of lore and universe itself become kinda far from whot I loved back when discovered it.
And it requre a lot monies, I don't have them nowdays
No. 5755
>Do other Ernsts like tabletop gaming? That can be board games, card games, whatever.
God, it has been a while since I've played them.
My favorite is backgammon because I'm too icq89 for chess or checkers.
I'd play interesting games, I'd want to try mancala-like ones, but I barely have real friends.
D&D games sound theoretically interesting, but their audience is somewhat a turn-off point for me. But who plays tabletop games nowadays.
No. 5827
35 kB, 1087 × 680
I've altered my current cube idea from a more traditional singleton cube on a 'draft all star' power level to a more simulationist cube designed to behave more like a retail limited experience, specifically the last and best limited format I've played; Conspiracy back in 2014. I don't know if other Ernsts are interested in the technical aspects of game design and more specifically cube design, or if they're interested in hearing about it, so I'll leave it there as an update but if you guys would like to hear more, I'll be happy to continue.

Also when I recommended Downtown, I'll have to take it back. Turns out that it's pretty rare and I was lucky to watch the game that I watched when I did years ago. It's now upwards of US$150 on Ebay and for that money you can get far better games, or even just the new entry in the series with money left over.

Sort of. They brought out their new version of Kill Team that I've heard nothing but praise for, and it has a nice change of pace from GW in that it has a lot of official support for stores to run events for players that is vital for a game to be healthy and thrive. It's got a higher barrier to entry in terrain (offset by many stores having terrain), but the minis and rules required generally come out cheaper.

There is also Inquisitor which uses at most 5 or 6 models per team usually unless one side is a swarm enemy like nurglings. It can be scaled to 28mm fairly easily too. Harder to come by than Kill Team though because it was discontinued a few years ago.

That's Skirmish games for you though. They might have higher costs per model but they come out cheaper overall. One that I have the rules for is MERCS which has a really nice system to it with very unique feeling squad options and factions. I wish I bought in when it was still pewter since I think that's the better material compared to plastic but I missed the boat. Such cases. Probably still wouldn't have played but the models are pretty cool. The Texico squad was ebin and had cowboys and cyber-aztecs and shit and had a faction ability of using booby traps.

You mean RPGs, or D&D variants/clones? The former is a lot broader but the latter does have a much greater appeal to lots of people. Either way, they're among the easiest kind of game to get into. Aside from rules, it's some pencils, paper and dice, and for some systems it's not even polyhedrals but only uses the humble d6.
No. 5829
>You mean RPGs, or D&D variants/clones?
Aren't RPGs descended from D&D?
Anyway, I'd want to learn to play preferans.
No. 5831
Nope. It's one of the earlier ones, but its lineage is pretty distinct from others. It's very hard to put something like Golden Sky Stories as a descendant of D&D when its a non-violent RPG about going on cosy adventures and making frens. That's also ignoring non d20 systems which can be argued to be somewhat inspired by D&D but there is a massive mechanical difference between d20 and something like 3d6. One operates linearly where difficulty scales down as the roll scales up, while 3d6 is parabolic where it is more difficult to get extremely high rolls and extremely low rolls, this leads to very different gameplay. Besides that, some things that are almost universal in the regular combat-oriented RPGs like Critical Hits for example have their origins outside of the D&D franchise. Traveller was also arguably more influential in the sci-fi section of RPGs than D&D due to being designed for that style of adventure rather than trying to retool a system tweaked around fantasy combat to science-fiction combat. That's a big deal because when they have tried to do that, such as in d20 Future, it's turned out as a bag of flaming shit.
No. 5846
Never really played wargames of that calibre, so no idea. A good illustration of what I mean is the rules for that Bioshock Infinite board game. They are so convoluted that it takes hours to work through the rules even though they aren't overly complex - just badly explained. But rather than work on better explanations they hire someone to make a video explaining the game and the result is simply hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAETWCuYgmU

In general I much prefer games with an elegant set of rules, but that seems to be a niche outside of the german scene around Klaus Teuber inspired games.
No. 5849
105 kB, 800 × 600
1,3 MB, 22 pages
Ebin. It's kind of expected with lots of franchise games though. They tend to have to spend lots on the licensing and have less budget for the game itself. A notable exception was the Age of Empires III game that came out a few years back. I got it as a gift and was very surprised with the build quality and the rules. It was just a well-made game. Easy to play, and looked really nice. It got rebranded because the upkeep cost on the name got too high, but I can't remember what they renamed it to. It's a pretty standard Eurogame that mixes a few different kinds of genre nicely.

For wargaming, this isn't the best example, but it's the only pdf rules I have on me right now. Avalon Hill games are broken down into clauses like say Rule 12.1, 12.2, 12.3 etc. which are then referenced directly by other rules so that you can flip exactly to the relevant information. The rules aren't always super elegant (looking at you, Third Reich) but they're usually pretty well laid out. You can see that here the rules are just numbered but I personally think that they're pretty clear and do tell you were to look if you need to reference another rule, it's just not broken down into clauses. The combat example doesn't explain itself perfectly, but it's just a matter of reading what it's saying carefully since the key phrase is easy to skip over.

Maybe someday we could try and run some simple wargames on VASSAL. That could be fun.
No. 5860
That rule book certainly looks much better that what I'm used to.

There is another noticeable exception to bad franchise games: Mechs vs. Minions. It's from the people who created Leage of Legends. I've never played LoL but that board game is a damn fine piece. Simple rules from which complex gameplay can arise, high quality material and artwork and generally fun gameplay.

Also one of the few cases of efficient packaging. It really bothers me that most games have a package so large that 90% inside is air. Like they are trying to show off on the store shelves.
No. 5863
467 kB, 750 × 750
842 kB, 1200 × 1200
1,9 MB, 1000 × 981
40 kB, 625 × 406
Some games have a reason for that apart from showing off. In wargames especially, storing all the chits can take up a lot of room because you generally store them in their own little baggies and it fills up pretty quickly compared to them being unpunched on their sheets nice and flat. Plus, a nice deep lid makes for a good die rolling area if the game needs it. I agree though that there are some pretty ridiculous boxes out there. I have to say though, I do have a thing for that silky smooth surface finish that lots of board game boxes have. Looking up that game you mentioned though, that's some damn efficient packaging.

Another game that I've had an eye on that might be interesting since you like European-style board games is Brass: Birmingham. It's a sequel to the Lancashire one that came out a few years ago. I followed it for a bit because it's set around a period in Birmingham that I have a professional interest in. Unfortunately for an economic game, they missed the enormous role that the firearms industry had on Birmingham's economy and filed it under the (I suspect deliberately) vague name of 'manufactured goods' which is a bit of a flavour fail, but the first game is pretty widely considered great, and the art design is quite something. Still though, the inability to overtly be a firearms tycoon in a city whose biggest contribution to British industry of the period was really the Birmingham Small Arms Co. is a feel bad. Might be up your alley though if you like those kinds of area control games. Outside of non-gameplay things that you don't notice without being invested in that subject, it's apparently quite good.
No. 5908
39 kB, 500 × 500
101 kB, 736 × 521
33,3 MB, 1 page
how about a pen&paper?
I really like and still play "Das Schwarze Auge". prefer it a lot over D'nD. more roleplay, less butchery.
No. 5911
I find them mechanically interesting but haven't actually played. I've mostly enjoyed looking at them from a game design standpoint. Never heard of that particular one though.
No. 5912
If you want even more role playing than in DSA, take a look at the Cthulhu P&P as well as Vampires The Masquerade, both focus on telling stories without too much number crunching. Vampires especially can be played with barely any calculations at all.

The extreme would be the FATE role playing system, where the story can be made up by both the master and the players on the go and the dice rolls don't even require counting higher than 4.

DSA is already nice if you want classical fantasy, but nobody outside Germany know it. The Cthulhu rpg has the interesting twist that barely any character survives more than one adventure and instead of taking damage your chars lose sanity.
No. 7260
79 kB, 1284 × 431
I got to a point where I'm pretty happy with my cube's common section. The main limitation is that I'm trying to keep it modern bordered rather than mixing and matching. There are a few archetypes supported but I also tried to just include good value cards in there where I could. Can you spot any of the archetypes yet? It's a Conspiracy cube so it is built a bit different to traditional cube. That's why there are multiples, conspiracies often like to interact with multiple cards of the same name and while I'm not playing them all, I'll be playing enough that it makes sense for them to exist. Also, I am trying to make it feel more like custom limited than a traditional goodstuff cube. Any other players got any feedback? Keep in mind I'm trying to keep some lower-power stuff in there to get the limited feel to it and Conspiracy limited is multiplayer so games tend to go long.

Maybe when I end up finishing the cube, we can playtest it on xmage or something. It could be fun to cube with Ernsts.