/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

Currently at Radio Ernstiwan:

Hail Odin! by Christenklatscher666


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No. 60632
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A thread to discuss China and greater Chinese civilization.
just no anime
No. 60634
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Recommended reading:
>Harvard History of Imperial China series
A series of general historical overviews of each major dynasty, as well as the Northern and Southern dynasties period.
>Imperial China, 900-1800
Masterful overview of Chinese history, culture, and society in the stated period. The magnum opus of an eminent historian of China who condensed all of his love and knowledge into book form.
>Retreat of the Elephants
A comprehensive ecological history of China, intricately linked to the advance of Chinese culture into the south.
>The Cultural Revolution: A People's History, 1962—1976
Seminal history of the Cultural Revolution. Very important to understand today's China, as Xi Jinping and other eminent statesmen of the CCP had their formative years during this period of trauma.
Blog run by an American China hand. Strongly critical but fair-minded toward the CCP, often digging into party documents to report on what the party actually says and believes. Also very well-read and knowledgeable about Chinese literature and history.

learn any language via Anki decks and reading/watching a ton of media. Assimil books are good too for getting started

t; recovering sinophile
No. 60635
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>>Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Thread
-30 social score :DD
No. 60637
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Thanks, gonna add those books to my list. The Scholars Stage blog is quite essential ofc, he also has a couple good reading lists on there.

Gonna compile some of my online resources (except for first two they're more pop culture oriented):
Blog run by a Canadian professor that focuses on translating writings of Chinese (establishment) intellectuals
Start here: https://www.readingthechinadream.com/david-ownby-tips.html

Online magazine that features "non-partisan" writings about Chinese politics & history (among other topics)

Newsletter about contemporary Chinese youth & web culture. Written in a somewhat experimental style - like a (neatly edited) group chat between several participants, so YMMV. Start here: https://chaoyangtrap.house/welcome/

Blog by a Chinese translator who often posts about obscure Chinese movies (among other topics). Also posts a bunch of movie clips & commentary on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dylanleviking

Online radio that posts mixes from Chinese DJs - electronic music but also other genres

Curated playlists of various genres

Commentated list of one "influential" song for each year of the PRC's existence

Chinese films, the former list split into ten thematic categories & featuring some commentary for each movie.
No. 60640
Controversial statement: A buddhist China is much more dangerous than a communist China.
No. 60661
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If anyone wants to talk about Korea, Vietnam, or Japan, might as well let them do so here. It's all one big very unhappy family.

fug sozial gredid x-DD gan't stob me winne puh :-DDD
No. 60666
When they took Marxism really serious, they were dangerous only to themselves and sparrows. Now it's just saving face: "no, we didn't make a horrible mistake by trusting those German autists, we are still communists, it's just a specific version of socialism with private corporations".
No. 60667
This. They're basically a pseudo-Imperial China for-profit market system and among the scammiest and greediest in the world now. Fun fact I learned, Tiananmen was about a bunch of student Marxists upset at Deng for having free market reforms. Makes it pretty funny when Westerners champion this as if they were liberalist freedom fighters or something.

I wonder what murican Christian hillbilly Socialism would look like.
No. 60668
>Fun fact I learned, Tiananmen was about a bunch of student Marxists upset at Deng for having free market reforms
Where did you find this fascinating bit of information? it's fascinating because it's complete bullshit
No. 60670 Kontra
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I want to believe. My version without knowing anything is this: they wanted the market reforms accompanied by democracy which upset Deng.
No. 60672
A man who understands the spirit of '89.
To be fair, I'm not entirely sure if it was wholly for immediate democracy or just for further political reform and loosening of civil restrictions. Perhaps one of the resident sinophiles can chime in.
No. 60674
Don't remember. Could've been my one college class, could've read it somewhere I dunno. I haven't read this article and yes source but
What I remembered was something about it having a massive component of discontent with his market reforms which always got overlooked. Not particularly tied to the argument just was something I remember hearing about alleging that it was as much anti-Capitalist as anything else. True or false I don't know honestly.
No. 60675
My understanding was that there was a kind of "do it properly or don't do it, but pick one" current to the thing since people were getting set up under Maoist institutions and then dumped into a reformed market environment where they weren't really trained to prosper, which meant a shitload of people didn't.
No. 60717
I'll add few more links:
http://en.people.cn/index.html -- truth, all the truth and nothing except truth
https://twitter.com/Joshua_Luna -- topical satire on American imperialists
https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/ -- good place to complain about tiger mom

t. simple worker Ivan from Vladivostok
No. 60736
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Summoning Hungarian Ernst to post some resources/advice about learning Mandarin

I had this in my bookmarks for whatever reason, seems like a legit introduction (and there's a whole bunch of further links if you scroll down): https://teachyourselfmandarin.wordpress.com/
No. 60765
Well, I can't really recommend my "own" methods since I study it at university.
The textbook we use is New Practical Chinese reader. Every chapter has two dialogues and a more prosaic text plus some cultural notes and a grammar section and a usage section, which is relatively comprehensive imho.

As for learning the characters, your best bet is probably downloading or making an anki deck and drilling that.
If I could recommend anything, then I'd say that it's important that you're memorising the pronunciation, and not the transcription. So don't memorise it as "Zhao3" but rather memorise the sound and the transcription will come naturally, and it helps with your speaking immensely if you can recall the sound proper when looking at the character.

Remembering characters might be hard initially, but the more of them you learn, the easier it becomes imho. You will eventually see them as an amalgamation of radicals, which sometimes helps with the meaning and the pronunciation too.
We did a lot of writing by hand for class, and while it's tiresome, I'd still consider it useful if you want to get acquainted more with the characters and the way they are formed. (Of course this is kind of optional, since even in China apparently people usually write using a computer, so they can half-passively recall a character and that is enough if you're doing things digitally.)
(I practice handwriting regularly because I need them for my tests and exams.)

For dictionary I can't really help you. I use the recently published 汉匈大字典/Chinese-Hungarian Grand Dictionary which has a lot of example sentences and so on.
We were told to use Pleco if the Hungarian dictionary lacks something.
It has some premium modules, but the free dictionary is perfectly fine as I've found.
I'm sure there's a good/better Chinese-German German-Chinese Dictionary out there.
But avoid any dictionary that doesn't tell you if something is a verb or a noun or an adjective and doesn't differentiate between pure verbs and verbs with objects. (V or VO structures.)
No. 60918
Thanks for your input. It looks like I'll soon be studying it at university as well, so we'll see how that goes. I already have some (very limited) experience with hanzi from studying Japanese, but other than that I only know some stock phrases in Mandarin and the basics of the different tones.

Do you have any tips for good anki tools/apps etc?
No. 60932
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I would say there's no need to worry about anything if you're studying it at university. They'll supply you with all the necessary materials and tell you what you can trust and what you can't.
Also don't be afraid if it's hard at first. You'll get the hang of it quickly. Video related is basically how my first oral exam felt like.
(Oh, and be sure to always analyse sentences properly, find the subject, verb, object and then the rest should come easily.)

I use ankiapp because I have an iphone and therefore have no other options. I think the regular anki software should be fine too.
Some of my classmates use something else but I can't recall the name. That's a website and not an app.
Be sure to check out if your textbook has any pre-assembled decks uploaded by someone online.
If you're using NPCR then you can just download an anki deck and don't have to bother assembling one. (Though it doesn't take much time.)

Don't know if you as a German will have it easier than me as a Hungarian.
The issue for me is that if we think of language as a spectrum between agglutinating and isolating languages, then I'm a speaker of a language at one and trying to learn a language at the other end. But that's probably just me reading too much into it.
Ultimately the hardest thing is that unlike when learning European languages, you have no common Greco-Latin vocabulary you can comfortably rely on to decipher meaning. Everything is totally foreign.
No. 60972
What about evergrande?
No. 60975 Kontra
What about it, son?

I did not read it up, only saw some Marxists post about it in a critical fashion as he is no china boo
No. 60976 Kontra
Afaik from what I've read it's a double edged sword because while the CPC didn't bail it out, they also decided to "save" the company by letting state corporations cannibalise its assets, which means a lot of American investment just "fell" into the hands of Chinese state enterprises for pennies, which is probably why the western press was so butthurt about it besides the housing market implications.
I don't know what the actual economic implications of it are though.

Personally I don't think the Chinese themselves are too worried. It's a goal of the five year plan to have an oversupply of housing, which is bad in a market economy, but socially speaking very good, especially how solving the upcoming demographic crisis we in the west failed to solve is one of their key interests right now.
No. 61082
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goes to Chinese class once

Thanks again. Seems like we're using some recently released textbook so I'll have to create the anki deck myself.
My pronunciation definitely feels like the video you posted :D
No. 61114
Don’t worry you will be saying 非常好的CHILI SAUCE in no time!
No. 61377
sinification intensifying

Joges aside, I feel like I'm slowly turning into a tankie :DDD

I at least recognize 好 now, and can actually read the phrase (with help of Zhongwen dictionary addon), feels good
No. 61387
So concerning the lockdown in Lanzhou I'm - again - asking myself how many people and their workplaces are considered to be indispensable in such a big city and will be still going to work.
No. 61643
Haven't finished it yet but seems like a good documentary, lots of historical footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJyoX_vrlns

I ended up buying the Basic Bundle for Pleco and the built-in flashcard system has tons of options and the app in general is pretty amazing, I can't imagine entering all that stuff by hand into Anki. Do you use Anki for other learning purposes btw?
No. 61645 Kontra
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Also i'm pretty obsessed with all the propaganda posters, they go so hard (tho I'm actually not sure whether the first one's legit - picked it up on twitter I think)
No. 61647
3rd is really good, planning on ordering a copy for a few months now.
No. 61649 Kontra
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No. 61650
I think I might buy one soviet and two chinese posters. Peak capitalism.
No. 61651
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Nothing wrong about fighting imperialism with your bros tbh
No. 61652
Man they're having a great time in the top left
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No. 61698
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>Nature as it is understood today in the globalised world refers to the non-man-made environment surrounding us. It is a modern construction based on the opposition between nature and culture that Descola calls ‘Naturalism’. Nature is here considered to be the opposite of culture and at the same time an object to be mastered by culture or the ‘spirit’. However, this naturalism is not a default, but rather a fault.

>It was in the process of globalisation that Naturalism was universalised, at times seeming irreversible. This universalisation of naturalism was exemplified in a song composed for the Science Society of China founded in 1915. The melody was composed by Chao Yuen Ren in 1923, a linguist who later joined the Macy Conference on cybernetics (1946–53) and the lyric was written by Hu Shi, one of the most celebrated Chinese intellectuals of the twentieth century:



Song of the Chinese Science Society
Melody: Chao Yuan Ren; Lyrics: Hu Shi

We do not worship nature. He is a tricky and weird;
We have to beat him, boil him, and tell him to listen
to our assignments.
We want him to push wagons; we want him to deliver
letters for us.
We need to expose his secrets so that he can serve us.
We sing that heavens act perpetually, and that we dare
knowing the truth.
We know that truth is infinite, still feel joyful when
moving every inch forward.

>What we can see in this lyric is the idea that meaning is no longer to be deducted from nature, as was central to ancient Confucian and Daoist thought, but rather that nature is something to be explored and exploited. Can we say that this is an advancement of history in the sense of becoming modern? Or does it rather suggest a need to problematise the knowledge that we today call modern? How can we make sense of any reminiscence of the non-modern besides being haunted by it? Alas, how relevant is Confucian moral philosophy to the autopilot cars and sex robots of the twenty-first century? Could such thoughts realise anything other than a new age of psychotherapy?

No. 61717
Fuck nature
Build more industry, I literally don't care.
No. 61720 Kontra
>hello I'm too school for school olaf, wanna know my single line opinion?
No. 61721
>my bougie retard obscurantist opinion is important!
blow it out your ass nazifuck
No. 61725 Kontra
>my opinion

Did you miss the quote signs?
Anyway, maybe one day you can make some actual contributions to this board, besides being the annoying fly moving once in a while.
No. 62072
Been reading this site recently. Pretty interesting. They also do a journal, but haven't dug into it yet.

No. 62073
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Nice, also stumbled upon them recently. Still have this tab open but haven't managed to read much this week: https://chuangcn.org/journal/one/sorghum-and-steel/
AFAIK the journal and the website actually have the same content.
No. 62087
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I talked about seeing a copy of this (Thousand Character Classic) before one of my Classical Chinese classes and that I got to look at it.
Turns out it's not entirely unpublished, rather, there were only a hundred or so copies made of it published privately, so it has a very, very limited release.
Saw it by accident at the webshop of the university's bookstore while I checked it between classes and I immediately ran over to the other building to get it.

It's even cooler than I thought.
It has the a scanned version of an edition from the Yuan-dynasty that has the entire Thousand Character classic in 6 styles, from Large Seal Script to the Grass Script.
And it also has a few very cool accompanying essays + a translation with not only a translation, but with Pinyin and also a dictionary of the characters, so it's actually kind of a useful resource for studying Classical Chinese too.

Not much else to add to it. It's just both a quality publication and also a very useful book by the looks.
No. 62222
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Been kinda enjoying this sitcom for learning Chinese, the writing is actually pretty funny and acting is alright too (though ofc in a campy way, it's an educational show after all).

Damn that's beautiful
No. 62223
We need more situational meme content.
No. 62228
Second picture is literally me when I leave someone after a long discussion and re-thing everything I've just said
No. 62294
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Fresh Happy Chinese screencap delivery

Looks like I'll have to swap to the online course after all since the teacher for the in-person one is kinda coddling the students and doesn't really exploit the in-person aspect that much anyways
No. 62393
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Somebody actually bothered and scanned Kroll's Classical Chinese Dictionary that got released last decade.
Afaik it's the best one available, short of using a Classical to Modern Chinese dictionary.
This is good news. It's on libgen if anyone cares. Would've uploaded it but it's 58mb and the filesize limit is 51 by the looks.
No. 62527
181 kB, 468 × 360
Haven't needed anything related to Classical Chinese so far, but thanks for the heads-up. Though I just checked and it's also available as a Pleco add-on for 40 bucks.
Do you actually use paper dictionaries a lot?
No. 62651
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Probably the funniest episode so far in which the American exchange student offers to cook for her host family and just makes hamburgers three times per day :D
No. 62652 Kontra
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No. 63375
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Had my first midterm exam today. There were a couple of hanzi I struggled memorizing but luckily none of those were part of the exam, there was only one that I'm not sure I got right. Only part that I expect to get about 50-70% percent of points is the listening part where we had to write down two-syllable words in pinyin with the correct tones.
Tomorrow's gonna be a short oral exam, but I'm not too worried about that.
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turning the thread into my personal blog edition

Oral exam went fine, though I was more nervous than expected and messed up some pronunciations.

Some more random pics & tankie memes. been lurking r/GenZedong - it's terrible but I can't help it
No. 64054
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Almost every single frame of this 2009 TV series is fucking gold. Found it on twitter.
The acting and the dialogue makes it feel like as if this were some sort of video version of a Chinese language dialogue from a textbook.
No. 64418
So many sinologist ernst. Really cool.

唐朝人还写过《梵语千字文》 I really doubt it's a good way to learn sanskrit.

No. 64422
No. 64424

No. 64425
No. 64428
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This looks like a huge discovery.

>Recent archaeology: unknown script on epitaph for Murong Zhi, last khan of Tuyuhun
>Murong was one of the three Xianbei tribes
>The existance of Xianbei script has been recorded by 《魏书》、《隋书》、《洛阳伽蓝记》 etc.
>Tuyuhun script has two writing systems just like Khitan script, probably a precursor
>Both khitan and rouran languages are believed to be para-mongolic
>rouran and xianbei are the same people

Hopefully this is something between Brāhmī Bugut/Khüis Tolgoi and 契丹大字/契丹小字. So all dots can be connected.

No. 64433 Kontra
I just realised I mixed up 比 with 跟 in that sentence and now I want to die.
No. 64505
I think both 跟 and 和 are ok here. 我觉得你的中文已经很好了,不用妄自菲薄
No. 64506
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Sorry I did't realize the right way to sage. I'll post my favourite Mao era posters as an apology.
No. 64529
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This was the main attraction this Christmas for me.
This sick, three volume set of the Yi Jing published in 2003.

It's not the Richard Wilhelm translation, but one by a Hungarian artist and intellectual Gábor Karátson, who has connections to the sinology scene here, but was still kind of an outsider.
When I asked my Classical Chinese lecturer about this edition he said that it's okay, but Karátson supposedly sometimes goes off on tangents based on etymology in his translation and commentary that aren't necessarily sound, but it's otherwise a good work.

The thing is, it's fucking monumental. +300 pages for just the main corpus with the original text and then another thousand in two volumes as commentary.
By the looks volume one of the commentaries has the more "personal" parts of the interpretation. The author's writing style is a bit unbearable, because it has that "I'm a Budapest outsider intellectual but not an actual outsider" taste to it where he's being a bit of an obscurantist dickhead in his prose.
So it's more like a colossal art project on top of being an titanic translationwork.

From a sinological-technical standpoint it's a bit of a compromise imho, since he opted to use a Hungarian transcription instead of pinyin, but at least it's the Scientific Hungarian (which it's why it's Ji King on the cover, not Yi Jing.) which is not "ideal" but at least it differentiates between zh-ch-q and j instead of transcribing all of them as fucking "cs" so that the unwashed masses can pronounce it.

It has plenty of illustrations and by the looks he backed up his "musings" with a formidable bibliography at the end.
So I'm basically very happy with it, though it's a bit like getting an enormous slice of cake, because I don't know how to bite into it. By the looks I'll have to use the commentaries and the work itself in tandem to makes sense of it.
Hopefully it'll come in useful when I'll be writing my thesis.

我学了汉语只一年了,所以我应该学习很多。我的最大的问题是我的考试不太好。 在家我会说汉语,在大学我不会。
No. 64530 Kontra
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The actually funny thing about this edition is that it's 18 years old.
But this is a brand new copy from the publisher. They couldn't sell all of them in 18 years.
Despite this it goes for like 130 euros in antiquaries.
And they couldn1t sell all of them despite only making a measly 500 copies. Mine is the 289th according to the numbering.
No. 64531
>And they couldn1t sell all of them despite only making a measly 500 copies.
Makes a man think. Life as a translator to Hungarian, I suppose. He was very confident there'd be five hundred Hungarian speaking sinologists chomping at the bit.
No. 64532 Kontra
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Well, technically he didn't lose anything, since it wasn't a private venture, because the National Cultural Fund and the Ministry of National Cultural Heritage funded the thing, so the only people who truly "lost" are the taxpayers. Oh wow, another middle class rip-off I guess.
No. 64783
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Finally finished reading Journey to the West. (Though only in translation.)

I liked it a lot. Took a long time to read, but it's like 1200 pages, so I'm not ashamed it took me a whole semester to read it.

The first seven chapters make a great story on their own (Basically Sun Wukong's life from his birth until his imprisonment under the mountain at the hand of the Buddha.)
The next few chapters then deal with Xuanzong's life before getting the mission from the emperor to retrieve the holy books, which could also be a standalone story.
Then in the next few chapters he assembles "the Gang" (Sun Wukong, the Pig, Frater Sandy and the horse that's actually a dragon.) and it's a good 90 chapter of episodic demon-slaying until they reach the Western Paradise and return to China.
(Another strong moment from this last part is when Xuanzong crosses the river on the way to the Buddha, only to see his body turn up in the water, signifying how he has left the mortal plane behind.)

The episodic chapters usually don't have much in common, save for when some demons are related (Like the Bull demon, his wife and their son all make an appearance as adversaries.), but they usually make an exciting read, especially when it's not the formulaic "Sun Wukong outsmarts the demon and beats him/Ask for the Buddha's/Jade Emperor's help and then defeats him."

It was interesting to see just how deeply this novel influenced culture down the line, especially Sun Wukong's moveset, appearance and name, but also with its structure. (Even if it lacks the insane powerlevelling wuxia novels supposedly have where the MC eats Galaxies by the third chapter or something.)
It truly felt like I was reading a foundational piece.

It's also really funny. Wukong and the Pig constantly insult each other, there's no shortage of shittalking before battles and sometimes the author surprises the reader by twisting their expectations a bit. Like that one episode where Sun Wukong needs magical water to abort Xuanzong's magically induced pregnancy, but a Daoist Immortal is preventing him from drawing water from a well by hitting his foot and making him fall as he's pulling the cord. So he asks Frater Sandy to fend off the Daoist while he draws water. When he has the water, he tells the immortal to piss off, but he attacks them, so he kills him with a single blow, which I thought was really funny, and it shows how his personality evolved from an overly violent, almost savage figure into a courteous hero who doesn't kill unless he sees no other option.

In a sense I'd say it's a really extravagant Pilgrim's Progress or Everyman, however stupid that may sound. Ultimately, the Monkey King's battles and exploits are just an overgrown side-gig to Xuanzong's pilgrimage and him becoming a Buddha in the end for his deeds and upright moral standing.
But I still prefer the monkey, and for some reason seeing his power and heroism evoked the same feelings I had when I was reading the exploits of Siegfried. I can't really describe it. Maybe it's "Genuine enthusiasm/adoration" of a character because of seeing the things he stands for coupled with the power they wield.
It's a great story.
No. 64784
1,2 MB, 293 pages
This is mostly relevant to German speakers, but a podcast I listen to did an episode with an author about a China-themed book/about how China installed Dengism:


Since I haven't read the book itself I can't comment on it, but it seems promising. It's called "How China escaped Shock Therapy: The Market Reform Debate".

In order not to double post, I'll post my recommendation to listen to the episodes with Daniel E. Saros about his model system of socialism (also see included pdf) as well:


No. 64955
Is anyone here pilled in contemporary (say 2005 and after) Chinese literature? I have obviously heard of Liu Cixin, but for non science-fiction I'm personally looking into a void. So what are two or three essential books/authors of recent years? I'm less interested in ideological praise or condemnation of the system and more looking for stuff which grabs the current "Chinese soul" for the moment, if that makes sense.
No. 64959
Some years ago I was interested in this compendium of poets, maybe the names can help you

No. 64963
Funny that you ask, I actually have to do a presentation on Contemporary Chinese Literature in February, though that's rather gonna broadly cover the last ~100 years or so. I haven't really read that much myself, esp. not post-2000 stuff, can't really think of much that "grabs the current "Chinese soul" for the moment", perhaps you're also better off looking at movies or other media if you're looking for that.
But as for literature, I can recommend this podcast, perhaps even just to pick up some names: https://trchfic.podbean.com/
Also mb this list, though it's not restricted to contemporary stuff: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/78120.China_Fiction_Book_Club
If I find out more, I'll keep you posted.
No. 64966
I'll have a look, thx. Goodreads is a good idea actually.
No. 64974
I liked Mo Yan's Republic of Wine (Title 酒国 in Chinese). Haven't read his other novels, and this might not fit your 2005 criteria, but he's still a very much alive and active creator.
Yu Hua's novel Brothers is supposedly really good. I haven't read it, but I've read three other books of his and he's an enjoyable writer imho.
Jiang Rong's Wolf Totem supposedly made big rounds in China when it came out (at least the foreword, the front of the copy stating "Multi-million copy bestseller from China!" and the fact that I was gifted this book by someone who doesn't really give a shit about China) seems to imply. Though this is from 2004.

It might not fit your 2005 criteria, but I none the less urge you to read Gao Xingjian's novel Soul Mountain. He got a nobel for it in 2000 and it's a real fucking masterpiece with a 2nd person narration and a great storyline and aesthetics.

Though I don't exactly know what's the cutting edge of Chinese literature right now. I remember reading in a journal during library downtime that internet-poetry is big.
But ultimately I'm a provincial Xiongnu barbarian and it takes time for info to filter through.
(And it's not like I don't have my fair shair of classics to read still.)
No. 64978
>It might not fit your 2005 criteria, but I none the less urge you to read Gao Xingjian's novel Soul Mountain. He got a nobel for it in 2000 and it's a real fucking masterpiece with a 2nd person narration and a great storyline and aesthetic
Yeah, I stumbled across him because of the Nobel prize anyway, so I'll follow your recommendation as well as with "Republic of Wine", it sounds quite interesting. Maybe I'll find a more recent third book on top, though it appears to be harder than I thought initially.
No. 64981
It's a well written novel. (Republic of Wine that is.)
It's very post-modern in its approach. Kinda felt like I was in a fever-dream at times, and it kept me up at nights for a few days.
No. 65000
I found pretty much what I was looking for in the goodreads list:
>Shi Cheng: Short Stories from Urban China
>To the West, China may appear an unstoppable economic unity, a single high-performing whole, but for the inhabitants of this vast, complex, and contradictory nation, it is the cities that hold the secret to such economic success. From the affluent, Westernized Hong Kong to the ice-cold Harbin in the north, from the Islamic quarters of Xi’an to the manufacturing powerhouse of Guangzhou—China’s cities thrum with promise and aspiration, playing host to the myriad hopes, frustrations, and tensions that define China today. The stories in this anthology offer snapshots of 10 such cities, taking in as many different types of inhabitant. Here we meet the lowly Beijing mechanic lovingly piecing together his first car from scrap metal, somnambulant commuters at a Nanjing bus stop refusing to acknowledge the presence of a dead body just feet away, or Shenyang intellectuals conducting a letter-writing campaign on the moral welfare of their city. The challenges depicted in these stories are uniquely Chinese, but the energy and ingenuity with which their authors approach them is something readers everywhere can marvel at. Featuring stories from locations including Beijing, Chengdu, Guangzhou, Harbin, Hong Kong, Nanjing, Shanghai, Shenyang, Wuhan, and Xi’an, the collection contains work from authors Jie Chen, Han Dong, Diao Dou, Cau Kou, Ding Liying, Ho Sin Tung, Yi Sha, Zhu Wen, Xu Zechen, and Zhang Zhihao.

From reviews I expect this to be rather mediocre in writing/translation, but it covers the theme I'm interested in, so I ordered it anyway.
No. 65052 Kontra
I know some of the biggest names even though I don't read them: 阎连科、莫言、余华、韩少功、刘震云、格非、残雪、金宇澄 etc. The problem is I don't know how much of them are translated. And I'm not sure whether they grasped "chinese soul", or the said soul still exists. Literature is dead here. All the names I mentioned are about boomer age and they imitate western, including east euro and latam writers to the point I wonder it'a a translation. They lack the fine mastery of chinese language, unlike Lu Xun and Jin Yong. The poetry scene is better and you have wider choices if you include Taiwan and Malaysia. But the most soulful ones I read are unironically webnovels and some online contents.

Liu Cixin is considered lowbrow even in terms of SF. And >>64974 wolf totem is a pulp fiction with zero literary merit. It's a kitsch Chinese approperiation of glorious Magyar culture. I mean, no serious books would sell multi-millions.
No. 65117
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I can also give some brief reviews on stuff I read recently.

Sabina Knight - A Very Short Introduction to Chinese Literature
The cover doesn't lie - it's pretty brief but still did it's job of bringing me up to speed on the topics, I basically only knew about the 四大名著 before. Though the chapter on modern literature feels particularly short, but it also has a bunch of book recommendations at the end to dig deeper.

莫言【蛙】/ Mo Yan - Frog
Novel from 2009 about a woman who performs abortions during the one-child policy years. It's pretty nonpartisan and funny, also interesting formally - epistolary with the narrator talking about the stories of his aunt who's actually the main character, followed by a hallucinatory last chapter containing a surreal play with the characters. It's a decent read but at some point it feels like the formal experimentation is just there cause it's a hip thing to do rather than for some purpose.

巴金【家】/ Ba Jin - Family
Classic 1930s semi-autobiographical novel about a gentry family falling apart due to muh rigid Confucian values. It's written with a pretty clear political intent of the bourgeois individualist/"anarchist" author, so the characters are pretty one-dimensional, it's pretty repetitive, simplistically written and the narrative constrained, but I still kinda enjoyed the soap-y romance stuff.

贾平凹【废都】/ Jia Pingwa - Ruined City
This one I read a while ago, but it's probably the best modern Chinese novel I read so far. It's quite sprawling with many characters and sideplots, centered around a famous writer protagonist and his affairs with different women during late 80s or so (it came out 1993). There's some connections to mythology, classic literature, etc. and it covers a really broad spectrum of political/cultural themes.

>The poetry scene is better and you have wider choices if you include Taiwan and Malaysia. But the most soulful ones I read are unironically webnovels and some online contents.
Interesting, can you share some stuff? I would've though poetry should be dead too, and also wonder about webnovels after watching 刺杀小说家
No. 65221
I was reading Pu Songling recently for the exams in translation, and I came across a phrase that made me turn my head, so I immediately went looking for the classical Chinese original.
It's from the tale of Xiang Lian, a fox spirit, and in the Hungarian version she's described as "She was a realm-ruining beauty" (Országrontóan szép volt), and I found it a really cool phrase.
Apparently the Chinese original is 《倾国之姝》.
There's no big reveal, I just found it cool.
No. 65236
For 现代诗, there are many good periodicals like 《诗刊》、《星星诗刊》、《诗歌月刊》、《扬子江诗刊》、《诗江南》etc. I don't think a consensus of essential poets of last decade can be reached yet. But already canonized post mao poets are 北岛、顾城、多多、食指、骆一禾、海子、张枣, to name a few. For 古体诗, you can check university 诗社 or regional ones. The reason I prefer poetry scene is that, laureates of MaoDun literature prize, a prize for novels, they are all like graduated from chinese department, now teaching at chinese department or working at publishing house, while many published poets are just ordinary construction workers, wageslaves, high schoolers or housewives. The poetry scene is more insular in the sense that it's lesser known, but imo it's more vibrant. Same can be said about webnovels. Web novel is pop culture. The community is huge. People have the prejudice that webnovels are all pulp garbage. I used to think so too. But there are actually a good number of decent genre writings online. For example, I consider the first volume of 《死人经》 top tier wuxia writing.

>tfw no foxy waifu assists you in your pursuit of scholarly knowledge
I suffer in commuist china

This is from Book of Han. But I think the 倾国 femme fatale literary archtype dates back to the tales of last kings of xia/shang/western zhou dynasty. They are all said to neglect their duty as ruler because of some women which eventually ends their dynasties.
No. 65261
>I used to think so too. But there are actually a good number of decent genre writings online. For example, I consider the first volume of 《死人经》 top tier wuxia writing.

I had a seminar on (German) pop cultural literature, so it really is part of the young canon here. I can only imagine that there are some gems in this kind of Chinese literature, I would gladly like to read some Chinese literature that is pop and pulp and concerns living in contemporary China, and I also appreciate that it not only comes from studied people.
No. 65269 Kontra
Actually chinese webnovels have global readership: r/noveltranslations

I didn't read enough webnovels to finish one with contemporary china setting. I think the genre you want is called 都市文. Censorship discourages chinese placenames so authors circumvent by alternative names, like Shanghai=s市. Many authors just set the whole thing in tokyo and characters with japanese names but their story is still chinese. I'll try listing some webnovels with a somewhat modern setting:

>《我的女友来自未来》, formerly titled 《现充竟是我自己》
Ongoing romance novel I'm currently reading. Quite good despite sensationalist title. Has time travel and some buddhist elements.
Cultivation themed. This is THE pulp, representative of all the garbage. Has everything one hates about chinese webnovel.
Superpower individuals and their relationship with government and society. Well-written.

I think none of these are actually what you want lol. What about some sci-fi novelle concerning current chinese social problems? They are all once highly reposted on social media:

About Internet censorship.
About social stratification and distinction. Award-winning but I find it shallow.
About raising a schoolkid competitively.

If you were to read webnovels, just read on pirate sites since the official ones are often censored. Webnovels are escapism for average chinese so it's hard to seek realism about living in contemporary china. Still, it's a huge part of contemporary chinese culture and I guess that counts.
No. 65271 Kontra
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Kinda mandatory addon for interesed 外国朋友 in this thread at this point: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/zhongwen-chinese-english/kkmlkkjojmombglmlpbpapmhcaljjkde?hl=en

Thanks, a lot to look into. Pretty hard to actually read for me as of now but will definitely include some of that info in my presentation.

Btw if you don't mind my prying, how did you even find Ernstchan?
No. 65324 Kontra
Well, I discovered ec about two weeks ago when my frequent chinese forum's server went down. I had an urge to shitpost but didnt want to register any account. 4kank rangedbanned chinese ip and kaysee wasn't fun (i still made some troll posts and baited many replies). Then I discovered ec which seemed somewhat ernst so I was able to convince myself I was not just wasting my time.
No. 65522
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I haven't bought any paper books in a good while but since my grandmother insisted on getting me a gift for my birthday I ordered pic related, a recently released German translation of 西游记.
Apparently there's an even fancier hardcover version but it costs twice as much(88€), so I went with the two-volume edition.

>frequent chinese forum
Intredasting, is it also an imageboard or BBS or what? Do you habe a link (and could I access it without VPN)?
No. 65548
I've heard good things about the translation of recent Reclam 西游记.

It's a BBS. You don't need any VPN to access most chinese websites. But if you have never used chinese internet, you should probably start with more popular ones like zhihu or douban.
No. 65554
You guys ever try to follow a conversation in Simplified Chinese based on a background of elementary Mandarin with traditional 漢字 and a year of intensive Japanese?

It's a mindfuck.
No. 65580
It's amazing how German publishing managed to re-translate and republish 3/4 of the great novels in the last 5 or so years. Having a complete translation of Dream of the Red Chamber is quite the achievement for any language. Which is why I'm livid that the Slovaks have one and we don't.

2bh I absolutely loved reading Journey to the West.
No. 65597
>I absolutely loved reading Journey to the West
How accessible do you think it is it without deeper historic knowledge?
No. 65599
Refer back to my post >>64783 here.
I don't think that besides a small historical background on emperor Taizong and the historical Xuanzang anything is necessary. (Even then, it's only if you want to know the historical context. It's not a historical novel, it's a Buddhist allegory with a thick adventure-novel coating. You're better off with a dictionary of Buddhist terminology and gods than with a Chinese history book.)
Most of the plot takes place in fictional/mythical places between China and India.
No. 65601
What's easier to learn than Mandarin for somebody with experience in Japanese would be Shanghainese, there's both more tonal and lexical simalarities between them.
No. 65602
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Call me names if you must but the video game (yeah, yeah) ENSLAVED: Odyssey to the West is based on that book.
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> zhihu or douban.
Fair enough, will give it a try

I mean, there's a shitton of adaptations or media inspired by it. I was recently reading some Dragon Ball chapters and realized the connection

>Having a complete translation of Dream of the Red Chamber is quite the achievement for any language
Is it worth it though if it's ugly as sin? :^)

Also just checked the 三国演义 translation and it looks nice but fuggin costs 99€

And heads up for the German speakers, the new Reise in den Westen translation is also already available on libgen
No. 65662
>I was recently reading some Dragon Ball chapters and realized the connection
I just recently read the description what the book is about and thought it sounds a little like Dragon Ball but didn't go further into it but you're right it is officially an adaption of it kinda funny for some reason since most Dragon Ball kids will probably never know they were indirectly introduced to a Chinese literature classic
No. 65663
>since most Dragon Ball kids will probably never know
Depends. I think the BANZAI! back in the day had an article on it.
No. 65665
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>Go on Facebook page of the Sino-Hungarian Friendship Society
>Find 2-3 recently released translations by actual Sinologists
I swear to god if I don't get a stipend next semester I don't know what I'm going to do. (Porbably ask me mum for money :DDD)

>99 Reichsmarks
Not much more than the Hungarian edition. Though that's coming out over the period of like 3 years in three volumes, so it's manageable. (Each volume is like 27 euros or so.)
(There's also a less fancy edition coming out with state funding/oligarchic money laundering that costs half and isn't as fancy, but it's quality of the text itself is supposedly dubious.)

I wonder what made it so that I'm so autistic about this stuff.

>Dragon Ball chapters and realized the connection
It's not just Dragon Ball. Loads of anime take inspiration from it.
Like I've seen scenes of Naruto where the main character uses powers from Sun Wukong's moveset.
Journey to the West is an immensely influential work.
No. 65715
Suppose I want to learn more about modern China and it's recent history and currently I know very few about it. I'm ready to invest some time in it, but not too much. For example I won't take enough effort to learn Chinese language to any usable level.
Which entry level sources would you advice?
No. 65735
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>modern China and it's recent history
Pic rel/file attached is a good starting point IMO, it covers modern Chinese history starting with the Opium Wars, each chapter is based on a biography of different important thinkers/politicians, but also puts them into broader context. It's very readable too, substantial but not too academic.
I got it from this reading list: https://scholars-stage.org/making-sense-of-chinese-history-a-reading-list/ where you can also find a bunch of other sources
No. 66137
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Started reading an history of 20th century Chinese literature by Wolfgang Kubin. It strikes that nice middle ground of being a dense academic book but also him being a rather opinionated old school sinologist who stresses the influence of Western literature on modern Chinese lit, praises Lu Xun & co. and kinda shits on post-1949 literature.

Can't help but love his takedown of Mo Yan:

>With Mo Yan: What are you even reading? It has to be said that Mo Yan is capable of writing novels that sell. There are much better authors here in China who aren't as prominent because they aren't translated into English or don't have that outstanding American translator, Howard Goldblatt. [...] he pulls it all together and translates it into an English language that's better than what was delivered in Chinese.

>He tells cock-and-bull stories. He writes in a late 18th century style. As a member of the Chinese Communist Party, he dares only criticize the system immanently and not criticize it from outside the system. And he tells whole stories that since Proust and Joyce simply can't be told anymore if you want to write a modern novel. To be fair, I have to say that no audience in the world - not even the German one - would accept a James Joyce anymore. What the audience wants are cock-and-bull stories, what is called a "saga". [...] the audience there - and meanwhile also the audience in Germany - basically expects to be shown a movie [...]

No. 66384
1,2 MB, 1597 × 751
Interesting article about Chinese interest in Western classics:

Been hearing about that for a while but nice to read about it with a bit more context.
Also note to self to finally read some Carl Schmitt & Leo Strauss.
No. 66385
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And on topic of contemporary Chinese literature, I found this quite interesting:

It's a translation of an article by Chinese scholars reacting to Western criticism, i.e. from the likes of Kubin >>66137
Some interesting discussions down there in the comments as well.
No. 66489
The heyday of Straussists here is about a decade ago I think. The most prominent of them are Liu Xiaofeng and Gan Yang. It's generally believed that they are thirsty for power, desiring to be 国师 i.e. state's teacher, which basically means they want to chief ideologue of cpc. There was indeed an ideology vacuum at that time. But looking back now it's clearly a delusion that intelligentsia could go beyond their duty to meddle in party ideology.
Many people despise them for their courting establishment. At least I appreciate that they've translated and published a huge amount of works in humanities.
No. 66490 Kontra
Just realized the preferred nomenclature is *Straussians.
No. 66508
Didn't know SupChina, seems interesting.

>Three things will define the next phase of human civilization: climate change, artificial intelligence, and China — and China plays heavily in the first two.
Why is everybody blowing AI out of proportion that much?
No. 66531
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Thanks for the comment, I guess I'm once again late to the party
> Liu Xiaofeng and Gan Yang
Just read this one by them, kinda interesting perspective:

Also maybe the wikipedia page is missing some info, but I'm in awe of Gan Yang's CV:
>Start PhD at age 37
>Study for 10 years without finishing it
>Become professor
>Claim that modern philosophy has "gone mad"
Just an absolute madlad

>Why is everybody blowing AI out of proportion that much?
To get more funding
No. 66536
>To get more funding
That's in research, but SupChina is not an university department funded by a state and they are not the only ones in media blowing into the AI horn. Do those people simply believe AI is some kind of revolutionary magic device because they are from different educational backgrounds or is there another reason they all push it that hard?
No. 66539
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He could get a position because there was a lack of talent in chinese academia at that time. Now he wouldn't even secure a job in high school of 2nd tier cities with a failed doctorate from UChi.
What's more, before his Struassian turn, Gan Yang was a member of the New Left. He also borrowed the old Confucian idea of 通三統 to name his intellectual ambition of synthesising confucianism, maoism and dengism. If you think that's oxymoron, what about Liu Xiaofeng, once a prominent liberal and cultural christian, now seeking to serve the establishment?
I'm glad comrade Xi threw all those philosopher king wannabes into dustbin. Sometimes it's really hard for me to tell weather they are always sincere or their transition is opportunistic. Maybe their self-contradiction is some "esoteric writing" that I wasnt able to read between the lines on.

One particular reason of AI being popular in China is that AlphaGo defeated Lee Sedol and Ke Jie. Everyone was talking about it at that time. Even grandmas have watched the matches alive. Weiqi is sort of national sport here.
No. 66903
1,4 MB, 3653 × 2292
I finally finished reading Haoqiu Zhuan (好逑传).
In English it's known as "The Fortunate Union" or "The Pleasing History."
The German edition goes with the more bombastic "Ice Heart and Noble Jasper", which are the names of the protagonists translated literally. The original title is relegated to being a sub-title.

Hungarian edition is based on the German, and I did some cross-checking whenever I found something "odd" since I had a German copy. Though the title is changed to "Flowery Candles".
It's an interesting study in the spread of translation-mutations, since whatever "solution" the Germans went with, the Hungarian translator had to work with.

Like what irked me the most is the weirdness of translating the way some characters address their seniors (先生) literally. It just felt really out of place. Probably if I encountered it more it'd be less off-putting and would actually be part of the language of translating Chinese into Hungarian, but the way things are, this is an oddity, stemming from the German edition.

It's also worth mentioning that it's the first ever Chinese novel to be translated into any western language, which gives it some significance from the point of translation history and Sinology history, but otherwise nobody would remember it I think.

Anyway, translations aside, it was enjoyable, but it's in no shape or form a "great novel".
Basically it's a story of one Tie Zhongyu (Noble Jasper), an up and coming scholar who embodies all virtues and how he through numerous trials and tribulations gets to be with Shui Bingxin (Ice Heart), a pretty girl who also embodies virtue.
A mighty official's son wants to force Shui Bingxin to marry him in the absence of his father, and Tie saves her, only for this to happen a few more times through intrigue and utilising bureaucratic connections ("My dad is a mightier official than your dad!") until eventually the Emperor himself sees the couple's virtues and orders them to actually marry.

The only "unusual" thing I encountered in the novel is how Tie Zhongyu is actually not only mentally capable, but he's also incredibly strong, which imho is an unusual trait for scholars in Chinese literature.
The first chapters see him storm the villa of a corrupt general in the capital alone, armed with a mace, and fending off multiple people.

So besides this, I just feel like I've read the male equivalent of a romance novel. (Which doesn't mean I didn't have fun with it or that I didn't feel at least a bit jealous of the virtues and knowledge the characters portray, but it certainly wasn't something for the ages.)

I think it was probably some form of rebellion on my part that I actually bothered to read this, because during class it was only offhandedly mentioned as something odd (as in that it has like 12 different printings in Hungarian) and irrelevant ultimately that's not even on the "recommended books" list.
No. 66945
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Doing classical Chinese preparation-work for the first class on Tuesday.
We were tasked with translating the first five texts in our reader, and I finished doing the first one. This is from the Han Feizi.


宋有富人,天雨,牆壞。其子曰 ﹕『不築,必將有盜。』其鄰之父亦云。暮而果大亡其財。其家甚智其子而疑鄰人之父。

*Trust your son, but be wary of your neighbour!

In Song lived a wealthy man, whose walls were ruined by the rain.
His son said: If we do not fix it, surely there will be thefts. The neighbouring old man also said the same.
And that night they actually lost their wealth.
The family held the son to be very smart, but they suspected the neighbouring old man (behind the theft).*
No. 66963
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No. 67581
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No. 67608 Kontra
*天作之合 :D
No. 67629
I knew I was going to screw it up :DDD
No. 67886
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Been reading a commentary on the Analects lately: https://vebaccount.substack.com/p/lun-yu-introduction-and-11

It's WIP and just started covering the first few sayings but I've been rather enjoying it.

Now I was looking to buy a physical, ideally bilingual, edition of the 論語 - not as easy a task as I expected. So far I was only able to find one which is super chunky at over 1000 pages (also includes some other classics like Mencius etc.) and based on the old (and from what I read not that great) Richard Wilhelm translation. There's also a more recent translation by Ralf Moritz but I don't think there's a bilingual edition with it. Maybe I'll just get both since they're not very expensive.

Also I'm in a mixed state of awe and revulsion looking at the plethora of "Confucius for businnessmen" and other terrible books, pic 3 almost gave me an aneurysm
No. 67891
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I have a bilingual copy of it. (Though out of the two available, it's less than ideal, because of the supplementary translation it has.)
Though I'd say it's a bit frivolous to have one. All you need really is the ctext version (which is already bilingual depending on your settings.) and a well annotated western edition. The passages themselves are really short, so it's not really that much of a problem to look up the sentences you want to check in the original.

>Wilhelm Translation
Afaik he's standard for the Yi Jing, but otherwise, when I've tried to use his translation of the Mengzi during a translation exercise I felt like the dude had no idea what the fuck he was doing at times, because his sentences didn't align in parts with the Chinese at all, so he was no help at all for me.
I don't want to shit on him too much since I'm not an expert or anything but to me he seems less than ideal as an auxiliary text.

>"Confucius for businnessmen"
I love these. They're so stupid and clueless.
The Art of War is also one of those books that has a version for every strata in our society, from Navy Seals to pregnant women.
Here's one I had a good laugh at a few weeks ago by some Taiwanese business dude.

You might also wanna check this series out:
I have a Zhuangzi from this (well, volume two of it anyway) and it's a very good series.
Kinda pricey though and the availability might be limited, but it's available in German too.
Text goes parallel, left is 文言 AND 白话 and the right is the Western language.
No. 68502
571 kB, 1501 × 724
Same exact story, except for me it was:
>Some self-taught basic Japanese reading ability
>2 semesters in Traditional (USA uni courses)
>2 semesters in Simplified (same course series at my USA uni...)
>2 semesters in Simplified in study abroad courses... in Taiwan
>Improved self-taught Japanese reading

I didn't think too much of it until recently, when I saw this webpage and pic related by chance: https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/japanese-fonts.html
Turns out my fonts were not configured correctly, and I had been seeing the Chinese glyph of 直 in all Japanese unicode text on my computer probably ever since I began learning Japanese. Anki, all web browser reading, etc.
So what happened when I inevitably encountered 直 in Japanese images?
I wrote it off as some variant used by mangaka or something and gave it no further thought for at least 5 years. Just treated them as the same, which I suppose wasn't too wrong for my intents and purposes. But not my brightest moment.
No. 68557
I have no idea about bilingual versions. This
is the most standard modernly annotated version in chinese universities.
The Song dynasty version annotated by 朱熹 is a neo-confucianism classic.
Typeset version: https://book.douban.com/subject/10582727/
Photocopied version: https://book.douban.com/subject/26776583/

This doesn't happen often, because ja_JP precedes zh_CN. So usually only chinese texts are troubled by wrong glyphs. You probably have either i) uncommented zh_CN but not ja_JP, ii) installed a chinese font but no japanese one.
No. 69065
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I don't know the context for these images, but it's still so fucking funny.
No. 69225
Found another list of resources with a focus on webnovels & manhua: https://heavenlypath.notion.site/
Haven't looked into it too deeply, but might be interesting

>Though I'd say it's a bit frivolous to have one. All you need really is the ctext version
Thx, I think you're right, ctext is actually great, had it bookmarked but never used it before.

>Text goes parallel, left is 文言 AND 白话 and the right is the Western language.
This sounded cool but the German editions are expensive and ugly as sin

Thanks, not quite there yet to read a standard chinese edition but I'll save em just in case in my fresh 豆瓣 account
No. 69591
>ugly as sin
I'm curious what did you find ugly about it?
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I mean... they look as if an intern scrapped them together in GIMP in 15 mins. The same ugly background picture that has no relation to book content, awkward slapped on logos and ugly fonts.
I guess it's not really comparable but I like paperback covers like pic 3 & 4
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Btw while googling for book covers I found some classics with pinyin on Aliexpress. It's like 10-15€ so probably not exactly high quality but I'm kinda tempted. Then again relying on pinyin seems like a bad habit
No. 69668 Kontra
Looks cheesy. I'd choose from reputable publishers like 中华书局 or 上海古籍出版社。
No. 69671 Kontra
2,2 MB, 3884 × 2282
I get what you mean that the dust-jacket is a big generic, but you're literally judging a book by its cover lel

Seriously. Just get a Chinese edition if you must, that has footnotes accompanying the text. It's a thousand times more useful to have the footnotes explaining the expressions and the binomen in modern Mandarin than it is to have pinyin.
You'll be using at least 3-4 books/sources when translating anyway. (Personally for me right now for the translation I'm making for the Han Feizi it's the ctext version, the English translation, the German, zdict, Kroll's dictionary and Pleco I have on hand. Though our goals differ most likely, since you're learning Wenyan to read it (if I'm guessing correctly), and I'm learning to translate from it. If that makes sense.)

There's no "3-in-1" perfect edition you seek.
Chinese edition with notes + ctext so you can search up the characters easily in the dictionary is your best option short of magically waking up one day knowing all the hanzis and their meanings.

(The commentaries are important not only because of the expressions you might encounter but also because how some texts have epic bruh moments where they substitute one character for another, and without the footnote/commentary you have no way of humanly guessing they meant that character instead of the one they printed.)
No. 69852
1,2 MB, 1040 × 1600
Finished reading Lu Xun's Collected Short Stories. There's some really great ones in there, even beyond his most popular ones like Ah Q or Diary of a Madman.
My favorites were The Loner and In Memoriam, both tracing the lives of individuals adjacent to the New Culture movement who are leading destitute lives ending in tragedy, each time viewed from the perspective of another character. Other stories were a bit more forgettable, especially those without a lot of plot where he just portrays various aspects the backwardness of Chinese society during the early 20th century with varying degrees of humor.
I didn't get that much out of the "Old Tales Retold" collection where he facetiously reinterprets events from Chinese mythology/history, probably would enjoy those a bit more with a bit more background knowledge. Though the ones about Laozi (where he bores his listeners to sleep with his philosophy) and Zhuangzi (where he revives a dead man only to be accused that he stole the man's clothes) were pretty hilarious.
The English translation by Julia Lovell is pretty good as far as I can judge, and there's a solid introduction giving some helpful historical context.

Alright you guys, I'll follow your advice and just get a German & a Chinese edition (perhaps what you recommended here >>68557) once I'll stop moving every few months. Thx again for your input.

>but you're literally judging a book by its cover lel
Lmao, touché.
But yeah as you correctly assumed my interest is more casual, I'm not even sure I want to study 文言 that deeply. Right now I'm more interested in just reading Confucius etc. in translation but also having the ability to cross-reference it a bit with the original.
No. 69930 Kontra
678 kB, 1107 × 1716
After all the fussing I just went and started reading pic related, modern English translation with commentary by Annping Chin (though she ofc draws from classic commentaries)
Read Book 1, very readable, I can already feel my 智 levels rising
No. 70705
5,2 MB, 4000 × 3000
4,8 MB, 4000 × 3000
Unpacked my main sinology resource. Pretty interesting stuff to read tbh.
No. 72876
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Confucianism, is in fact, Legalism/Confucianism, or as I've recently taken to calling it, 【外儒内法】. Confucianism is not a system of governance unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Legalist system made useful by the Legalist classics, methods and vital chengyu components comprising a full system of governance as defined by Han Fei.
Many bureaucrats apply a modified version of the Legalist system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Legalism which is widely used today is often called "Confucianism", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the Legalist system, developed by Qin-Han Intellectuals.
There really is Confucianism, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Confucianism is the shell: the clothing of the system that makes the bureaucratic machine's allocation of resources to the other government programs that people partake in seem humane. The clothing is an essential part of a system of governance, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete system of governance. Confucianism is normally used in combination with the Legalist methods of governance: the whole system is basically Legalism with Confucianism added, or 【外儒内法】. All the so-called "Confucianist" interpretatioins are really distributions of 【外儒内法】.
No. 72983
I just read that management guru literature of the west (Five habits of successful people and others) was particularly well sold in China among others. I think of these Jia Zhangke films where economically successful people make an appearance in some 1990s China set, representing the economic shift. on a side not it is quite interesting that such books sell millions and might have impact on peoples behavior, not necessarily making them economically successful though ofc
No. 73148
21 kB, 268 × 338
Yesterday I read the book "The Rhymes of Li Youcai" (李家莊的變遷) by Zhao Shuli.
We were handed this as part of the Chinese literature course to get a taste of post-Yan'an Forum literature in China, and oh boy, I was expecting it to be boring as shit but I couldn't have had more wrong expectations.

It's a fascinating book about the communists trying to reform life of the peasants in the communist controlled areas.
The story basically concerns the struggle between the rich and the poor of a village, where a corrupt landlord named Yan Hangyuan controls the bureaucracy and law right under the nose of an inexperienced comrade Zhang.
He cheats during land redistribution, alienates the leader of the local militia from the peasants and also ruins the local Peasant's Alliance by installing a clueless representative.

But it all changes when a more experienced cadre shows up and slowly realises that the village is far from being the "model" the reports talked about. He slowly gets acquainted with the locals and collects their grievances, organises them and then sets things right.

The titular Li Youcai is a landless field worker who watches over the grain and the animals. He writes little songs about rumours and local happenings that people quickly learn and spread.
During the course of the book he goes from singing about past events to using his poetic abilities to create propaganda songs about the future to inspire the locals to join the Peasant's Alliance.

Well, this might seem like such a simple plot, almost generic. Besides the figure of Li Youcai, it kind of is, but what I found really fascinating is that despite change in terminology, it's basically no different from a simple Qing or Ming era short story where a newly delegated official takes on the local corrupt bureaucrats and their financers.
I find it so weird that when I started studying China in depth, I discarded the "Nothing ever changes in China" narrative, but now the more I read again it feels like an uncomfortable truth that keeps creeping up on me, be it parallel methods, narratives or even rhetorical tools the old literati, philosophers and Mao and Deng used.

It's a very short book so I'd definitely recommend reading it. It's very enlightening in a lot of regards.
And while it's ideological in nature, it never becomes too on the nose. Which is one of its merits.
No. 73620
The great thing about Chinese is that when you write down a phrase such as 文以载道 "Literature is used to transmit the Dao [morality in this case]" 20 times in a row you almost subconsciously begin to internalize it. Honestly it's so interesting to see how the Chinese language carries so much of the culture with it whether it wants to or not. I never felt anything similar with any other language I've learned.
Maybe I just never noticed it.
No. 73935
7,3 MB
Just burst out laughing reading this in the computer room, I think I'm in for a treat with the Hai Feizi


Thanks for the rec
Kubin keeps shitting on post-Yanan literature so I haven't been very interested in checking it out so far
No. 74666
5,5 MB, 1628 × 2048
No. 74667
>no windows or doors
Uh, how does one get in?
No. 74668 Kontra
Surely materializes inside, as Chinese normally do.
No. 74672
No. 74771 Kontra
26 kB, 2671 × 951
>Han Feizi_Ex[...].bmp
>7,3 MB
No. 75272
86 kB, 327 × 2048

>At Jingzhou's Wangjiaju Chu cemetery site 王家咀战国楚墓, 3,200 bamboo writing slips have been recovered from Tomb 798. Researchers estimate that about 700 of the slips can be restored.
>The slips appear to belong to three texts: the Book of Poetry, Kongzi Yue 孔子曰. and Yue (Music) 乐.
>The Kongzi yue overlaps some portions of the Analects, the Book of Rites, and the Mencius. The structure of the Kongzi yue text, though, is very different from Western Han excavated manuscripts of the Analects.
>The portions of the Book of Poetry come from the 国风 part of the text.
>As for the Yue text, it consists of numbers, the Heavenly Stems, and a few simple characters. It is thought to be a musical score, but it is very hard to read. If it is a musical score, then perhaps it is a key to understanding the missing Classic of Music.

Someone on twitter translated and transcribed two of the published bamboo slips.
> 孔子在陳蔡。公夏乘饋一櫜錦。孔子曰:無食已。饋,曰:守也久不得視矣,請宿。孔子曰:無食也已。
> Confucius was in the Chen Cai region. Gongxia Sheng gave him a bundle of embroideries as a present. Confucius said, “But we have no food!” He gave it all the same, saying, “I haven’t seen you for a long time. Please stay the night.” Confucius said: “But we really have no food!.”
No. 75300
123 kB, 1018 × 1193
102 kB, 1315 × 1012
TIL the ligature for confucius (actually for any 子). = is also the older form of 々
No. 75508
88 kB, 637 × 603
64 kB, 730 × 566
62 kB, 642 × 761
Apparently our prof's specialized in Daoism so she makes us read a ton of Daoist texts in this course on Chinese intellectual history, and it's the most deranged shit. Makes me wish there would've been some more 焚書
No. 75512
Lmao that’s religous/mystical Daoism for you. (Zen/Chan can also be kinda unhinged afaik but daoism is fucking wild.)
But don’t fret, with each line you’re getting closer to immortality!
Can you post the pdfs I’m interested
No. 75536
Couldn't decide if Eastern Institute of EC or Institute of Media and Culture Thread.

I saw a Tiktok that goes on about the design of apps west vs. east. While the west is usually stripped and simple, eastern apps tend to "overload" their screen and put all in one place. Why is that so? The argument (which is summarize from a talk you can watch on youtube) is that less characters can say far more on in the east than in the west. This also makes easterners more adjusted to higher information density. It's quite interesting to think that the written language governs app design and thus user experience.

No. 75537
68 kB, 1918 × 941
167 kB, 1920 × 936
I don't think that it has anything to do with hieroglyphs.
No. 75538
360 kB, 808 × 440
521 kB, 881 × 602
177 kB, 1000 × 1240
667 kB, 1311 × 954
Preliminary research leads me to determine that Western states have begun to have their webpages become less and less cluttered over the years. Developments in UX research have decidedly made us less oriental.

More research is needed to confirm this hypothesis, it may be possible that a nation's webdesign is influenced by the level of orientalness. See E. Ernstovich's >>75537
No. 75539 Kontra
While Yahoo 2022 doesn't look less cluttered really, it refers to apps and a small screen. Besides Google nearly all web search portals have news and such on their front page.
No. 75541 Kontra
>While Yahoo 2022 doesn't look less cluttered really, it refers to apps and a small screen.
I don't agree but refuse to elaborate. So take it however you will.

>Besides Google nearly all web search portals have news and such on their front page
Now this is just bullshit. Yandex.ru floods the screen with all sorts of crap when compared to all these alternatives(note how different yandex.com looks!):

Go take a look at:

Once again I didn't even take a look at the TikTok link so I'm probably fighting shadows here. Just comparing these to the Russian Yandex and how incredible the contrast is.
No. 75543
Probably it's about boomers, not orientals. Opening the right webpage is hard, where do I even click for news? Oh I opened it and the weather forecast disappeared. What do??? Better have everything on your homepage...
No. 75544
163 kB, 1400 × 1050
To be fair, there is a minimalistic version at ya.ru . Also telegram is minimalistic too. Meanwhile in wect itself there is a generational difference (facebook vs twitter).
No. 75551 Kontra
Facebook in this sense is kinda like Wechat afaik.
It tries to be an all-encompassing social media platform where you have a bunch of "applets" that communicate with one another within one cancerous ecosystem.
No. 75559 Kontra
Where the fuck did the pdfs go am I dreaming?
No. 75576
24,5 MB, 522 pages
29,6 MB, 159 pages
10,9 MB, 1602 pages
There you go lol
I forgot to remove my highlights so I deleted the post. Here's just the whole clean PDFs
No. 77113
64 kB, 400 × 660
I finally beat my ADHD and finished reading Mishima's Life for sale.
It's a good book, but besides the theme of life-death-modern Japan it was completely anything I could connect to my previously existing Mishima-picture.

It's very cosmopolitan. I could really picture the Japan of the 60s as I read it.
Above everything else, I'd characterise it as a fun book. The twists and turns of the story are really exciting as you follow around this man called Hanio who decides to sell his life after a botched suicide attempt, only for every single subsequent sale to become more and more odd as the plot goes on.
It felt really fresh, modern and cosmopolitan despite how Japanese the whole thing is. All the womanizing, the talk of money, the backdrop of the consumer society and the talk of conspiracies.
It's a book that's full of life despite being a period-piece basically.

Loved it, great afternoon read. Would make a good miniseries 2bh.

I keep forgetting to reply to this post.
I knew of Robinet's book. I actually own it in Hungarian. Just didn't have the time/reason to go through it yet.
The others I've seen at the library.
No. 77296
26 kB, 318 × 443
Well, this one has been on my bucket list for years now literally, so I spent two days on carefully reading and appreciating it.
Maybe I could have waited a year to read the official English translation, but I thought now is as good a time as ever to do it.
So I read a fan-translation I had printed out and had spiral-bound. (Basically when I print textbooks, sometimes I add in something that's not strictly academic, since it doesn't increase the price that much so I can skim a bit of money from the print allowance.)

This is the second novel I've read by this author, and yet again I have to say that I'm really taken in by the style, even in translation. It's an I-novel, so the plot is related to us by the protagonist.
It reads exactly like something that an university student who has issues with his confidence yet can't help but think highly of himself would write.
It's very pompous. I love it. It speaks to me.

I called it a "novel" but that's a bit of a lie, it's yet again not structured like a novel. You get four novellas, which are variations on a theme, with passages sometimes repeated word for word.
The last one sort of ties the "plot" together when the protagonist gets stuck in an endless loop of of his own room. He basically spends 80 days going from room to room, only to slowly realise that these are all slightly-altered variations of his life, but that most of them lead down to the same path, seeing that while his choices do matter, ultimately there are elements of his life he cannot change. It's less of a plot than a message or theme the author chose.

The plot is basically about a(n unnamed) Kyoto university student who lives in a ran-down apartment, desperately wishing for the "ideal" campus life that he imagined to happen. In each novella he laments how if only he had picked his acquittances and circles better, he would have achieved his "rose coloured campus life", but in the end he has to realise that there's no such thing. But the endings are always happy, which I'm glad for.

Despite how I think it's a good book, I still think the anime was simply better, even if they did extend the plot so that it fits into 12 episodes.
Maybe it's a bit too style-over substance as a whole, so the really stylish animation and really fast line-delivery does it a favour.
No. 77361
557 kB, 13 pages
(Considering that flattery, I'm not even sure the sentences above are entirely correct, but the exams went quite well)

The Mishima book sounds fun, not sure if I'd enjoy the other one though it makes me want to rewatch at least a couple of the anime episodes

I recently read a short story by Kobo Abe about a starving artist called The Magic Chalk. Big recommend, can be read in quite different ways, as political allegory for post-war Japan,the use(lessness) of art, etc., but foremost it's also just really funny.
No. 77946
379 kB, 2360 × 1640
510 kB, 2360 × 1640
Trying out this Oxford classical Chinese anki deck someone uploaded. Browsing it through it’s not that hardcore the first 10 cards with their oversize definition lists and proper names would have me believe. (Really, I just goot a bad batch from the deck)
Really, I’m just surprised how it has more proper names than what we study, plus a lot more binomen.
Still, it’s shocking how it has roughly the same amount of cards my deck has, and this is for two years of study, while mine’s for only one.
No. 79077
734 kB, 2191 × 2227
大家, I need some explanations...
No. 79082 Kontra
These are some notorious/esoteric Internet celebrities and schizos, Drachenlords and Igors.
I probably can recognise more than half of them. Might as well kms at this point.
No. 79092
350 kB, 854 × 480
229 kB, 600 × 480
174 kB, 478 × 360
352 kB, 992 × 720
Btw I've been following a course on Classic Chinese Films, it's pretty good: https://chinesefilmclassics.org/course/
Already watched the first 5 movies, the standout is probably Goddess 神女 (1934) - a tragic tale about a prostitute-mother shunned by society and exploited by her pimp, starring the stunning Ruan Lingyu in a rather impressive naturalistic performance.

Thx. I don't wanna dive too deep but would appreciate if you can share some more info/links.
No. 79221
4,3 MB, 3915 × 5532
- Japan: 孙笑川, "Tenno", streamer with a toxic fanbase which constantly tries to cancel him.
- Korea: 孔庆东, Maoist, PKU professor, ethnic Korean.
- Manchuria: 李硕, Manchu supremacist, self-proclaimed coiner of the word "Baizuo".
- Mongolia: 马平, Mongol supremacist on twitter.
- Beijing: 吴京, director and male lead of Wolf Warrior (2015), one of the symbols of Chinese nationalism, Manchu.
- Shanxi: 刘慈欣, author of The Three-Body Problem.
- Shandong: 杨永信, psychiatrist who advocates and performs electroconvulsive therapy on teenagers as a cure for Internet addiction.
- Sichuan: 刘仲敬, "the Aunt". "Han identity must and will be dismantled by genocide."

The rest are mostly people related to a certain doxxing website which I'd prefer not to name.

Imagine some no-lifer wasted so much time on Internet cesspools that he knows them all. Couldn't be me haha.
No. 79224
>author of The Three-Body Problem
Liu Cixin? Seems like an okay guy. Doesn't like muslims, but let's be honest here, no one really likes muslims.

>director and male lead of Wolf Warrior (2015), one of the symbols of Chinese nationalism
I think I watched a review of his movie on Accented Cinema, and it seemed to me that it's a huge stinking pile of shit. Why is he JoJo though?
No. 79238
>Japan: 孙笑川, "Tenno", streamer with a toxic fanbase which constantly tries to cancel him.
It’s kind of reassuring to hear that be it the US, Germany, Hungary or China, there are always people like this around who keep going online for decades despite a community of self-proclaimed tormentors forming around them.
It’s like bullying retards online transcends culture.

>Internet addiction cure
Honestly the way things are, I almost agree with the dude. Does he get results too, or does he just like tazing zoomers?
No. 79464
246 kB, 1050 × 1050
I love all the geographical shittalking Warring States era authors do.
This one is from the Guanzi's 39th chapter titled "Concerning the Waters and Lands" (水地)

Also, nice to read someone saying good things about Chu for a change.
No. 79970
33 kB, 580 × 449
>Liu Cixin
Dunno about his attitudes towards muslims. Some people dislike him because he's pretty much a stereotype incel-ish STEM guy with an affinity for authoritarianism. Also it's been exposed that he uses an alt account to shill for himself and battle his haters online. (based or cringe?)
Personally not a fan of his works.

>Wu Jing
Haven't watched anything by him. But honestly he himself seems like a nice guy. IIRC he even reposts memes of him in self-mockery. It's just unfortunate that he became an icon for the internet to vent their emotions on because of some hollywoodish propaganda flick.
>Why is he JoJo though?
Dumb pun: 吴 ~ 白之星

>Does he get results too, or does he just like tazing zoomers?
It's debatable whether or not internet addiction can be justified as a disorder, let alone the extension of a cure. I think it's more about a means for the parent to punish and discipline the offspring. Even the mere existence of such a clinic would do. Maybe some patients became docile after therapy, some didn't. Regardless, they weren't born to very enlightened parents and their future doesn't seem too bright, given the family of origin and traumas they had.
No. 79976 Kontra
>It’s kind of reassuring to hear that be it the US, Germany, Hungary or China, there are always people like this around who keep going online for decades despite a community of self-proclaimed tormentors forming around them.

A case for comparative cultural psychology :DDD no, seriously, why is that? And I mean both sides
No. 80642
631 kB, 1374 × 1666
44 kB, 375 × 500
I picked this up on a whim and read it.

It’s a series of episodes from the life of a forestry brigade during the cultural revolution. (The time is never mentioned explicitely)
But this is what’s amazing about this one. This novel’s time is magical and ignores history.
It’s the first kind of Chinese novel I’ve read that evoked this feeling from me, this sense of magic for lack of a better word.

The protagonist is called Old Ding, and he’s the self-appointed leader of a forestry brigade. He’s in his 60s and has seen it all and done it all.
Fought against everyone and by his own admission, the only thing he ever trusted was the Red Army.
And yet he’s a larger than life figure in this small forest cabin as he leads the people of the nearby village with his wisdom. He quotes Mao, but despite how red he is, he retains the qualities of an ever-young Daoist immortal.
He doesn’t ignore the outside world, but his knowledge and experience twists it and bends it to the point where the outside world becomes irrelevant.

The novel repeats set phrases after set events like deaths, and it gives it this quality of shamanistic chanting.

Honestly, I’ve read it and I’m sold on it, but I still feel like I just didn’t properly get it.
It feels like a lot of the intertextuality and meaning got lost on me as I was reading through the story.
It feels like that this is one of those books that I will need to read in the original as a form of pilgrimage.
No. 80856
222 kB, 420 × 360, 0:07
No. 81101
795 kB, 3972 × 2670
No. 81377
22 kB, 227 × 191
No. 81475
297 kB, 1706 × 1279
I became interested in it after reading this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/pretentiouswhat/status/1550292538736918528
But reading academic literature all day on that topic is starting to melt my brain

Sounds fun, gonna put it on the list.
No. 81724 Kontra
抱歉,我不太了解这方面的情况……我的印象是,现在不同地区农村的面貌差别很大。江浙沪的农村看起来比日本的还要好,而像河南这种地方的说的难听点还是shithole :(

No. 82768
1,9 MB, 3024 × 4032
My Chinese copy finally arrived. I flipped through it trying to read random sentences and I have a good feeling about this.
I can totally conquer it with a dictionary during Christmas.

Also I can't believe how nice this book is. That build quality.
No. 82894 Kontra
256 kB, 866 × 1548
No. 83212
83 kB, 600 × 810
ǎizilǐ bá jiāngjūn
Picking a general from among the dwarfs
As in, picking the best candidate from an offering of mediocre applicants.
I love accidentally stumbling on chengyus in the dictionary.

>Warring States Characters
Thank God(pic related), that God(pic related) saved us from them.
No. 83243 Kontra
5 kB, 87 × 75
iching divination as font?
No. 83245 Kontra
That's Unicode block "Yijing Hexagram Symbols"
U+4DC0 to U+4DFF
In Unicode since: 4.0
No. 83297
561 kB, 828 × 1416
China state-affiliated media is posting crying Wojaks on Twitter now…
What a world.
No. 83317 Kontra
They definitely do know their business.
No. 84342
732 kB, 1738 × 1116
975 kB, 1683 × 1348
No. 84361 Kontra
Based and accurate. Europe is so fucking weak, dumb and pathetic. China can only laugh about this gay place, the weak homo loser continent.
No. 84543
1,2 MB, 1773 × 2556
University is having a conference on Mongolian Buddhism, so the Mongolian Studies Institute brought out the big guns and set up a small stand to do calligraphy.

You could just walk up to them and they’d make you a piece absolutely for free on the spot, which is very generous.
They asked me if I had a specific word in mind, “like friendship or love” and I said I want it to say “Genghis Khan”.
Calligrapher’s face lit up immediately and said she likes the idea. She made this marvellous piece, which I’m going to frame and put on my wall.
No. 84555 Kontra
I can't say if it's just doodles, but it looks very beautiful indeed to me. How nice of them, really.
No. 84559 Kontra
You should've asked for "I have no idea, I can't read Japanese" for when your gf sees it on your wall later and asks you what it means.
No. 84622
The truth it, the Chinese outlets and ambassadors have no fucking idea how to conduct themselves in a western controlled media environment.
Not that I think they really give a shit about trying to “convert westerners”.
They probably care more about the third world and Russia. It’s a token effort for domestic reasons imho.

Confucius Institute does something similar during university events when they offer you the chance to “get a Chinese name” and a calligraphy of it.
I remember we once “trolled” them when they asked us if we wanted them and we replied in Chinese that “I’m afraid we already have one.”

This was an above average joke for a German.
I give you a thumbs up for it.
No. 84626
>we once “trolled” them when they asked us if we wanted them and we replied in Chinese that “I’m afraid we already have one.”
This is kinda like that Murrican youtuber, Xiaoma I think he was called, who "trolls" Chinese people by walking around in Chinatown wearing a t-shirt that says "foreigner" in Chinese or sporting a tattoo that says "Kung Pao Chicken" and after enjoying their reactions ("hehe, dumb laowai") he then speaks to them in Mandarin. These videos are actually pretty funny and lighthearted.
No. 84627
352 kB, 768 × 768
>This was an above average joke for a German.
I'm sure it is a very old joke.
No. 84632
>Hungarian wants Ghengis Khan calligraphy
Don't get ideas, or there will be another Lechfeld.
No. 84680
1,1 MB, 750 × 3270
The next five years:
Newly elected members of the CPC’s
Politbüro’s Standing Committee, the Politbüro itself, the CPC’s Secretariat and the CPC’s Central Military Commission.

Other News:
Xi Jinping secures a third term.
No. 84681
So why did you hide the Hu Jintao incident from this report?
No. 84683 Kontra
My very superficial opinion on the Chinese Question, which is merely based on hearsay and very limited knowledge of the overall subject:

China is literally the greatest threat to "our" way if life, i.e. individualism, individual human rights and muh freedoms.
I would love to see the Chinese empire crumble into pieces and would therefore quite literally suck Joe Bidens dick and support the Indian goatfuckers and Japanese ducks with whatever they could possibly need in order to rival against their regional influence.

t. tries to avoid consuming Chinese products and services wherever humanly possible.

Screw those chinks.
No. 84684 Kontra
Because there was no incident.
Hu just felt a bit woozy and was removed at the insistence of his physicians.
Nothing to worry about.
No. 84685
You should read this weird nationalist-is-truth guy on "Chinese Libertarianism". I'm not even sure what political opinion one could count that in. Probably national socialism, lol. It reminds me of reading Schmitt and how democracy is basically approval/non-approval through exclamation (thumps up or down). Because here it is the same, the Chinese people can freely flourish and the government is dependent on their approval. I mean this guy probably doesn't live in China and it is an impressive demonstration on why (at least a bit of) empiricism can be healthy.

No. 84686
The Tagesschau told me about what the official statement is, but that another explanation is public humiliation because Hu is from another school of thought or whatever you should call it.
No. 84687 Kontra
I might add it is certainly interesting to read and the thought that China has not a profit motive is compelling and is what draws leftist chinaboos but the national mysticism sounds just stupid to me.
No. 84688 Kontra
You could argue that Xi is trying to send a message to the “Youth League Clique”, but the truth is that we have no fucking idea because the Party will never tell us about its internal disagreements and arguments.

People just talk about the “Shanghai Clique” and the “Youth League Clique” because they are easy to use for journalism. The CPC is a black box, input goes in, output comes out. We can only guess why, and one of the possible explanation is the “cliques”.
No. 84689
I don't know much about Chinese politics so I cannot say how much is true about this blackboxing of yours and others including the party itself.
But I mean Hu was party leader before and there should be possibilities to detect disagreement about the party line through documents and other stuff from the past and present.
No. 84692 Kontra
As the 4th most followed Hungarian sinologist on Twitter and Ernstchan’s chief expert in Oriental studies all I can say is:
infa 100%
No. 84693
177 kB, 887 × 837

An article by a think tank The Berggruen Institute, it's financed by Nicolas Berggruen, an investor that Germans might know as "Mr. Karstadt" because in the early 2010s he bought the Karstadt Group favoring the Chinese political-economic model and its adjunct social hierarchy as the best in facing the climate crisis/challenge. As somebody who is favorable of technocratic methods, this is appealing and the argument is also interesting as in how the political lead legitimizes its lead in an "anti-capitalist" manner (growth is not the aim anymore). But perhaps it turns out to be just green growth like in the US or EU in the end. Just like Xiao Weiwang during her China travels saw a sort of American dream as motivation for many Chinese. This article says that this aim of enabling consumption has changed now, though, as climate becomes the more pressing issue. And geopolitically China could help the Global South with its aim to lead the energy transition out planet has to go through and thus gain the geopolitical power it seeks as nation. So will it be a sort of different imperialism or really something else? World Revolution as it was also a red's dream

As somebody being longer in academia than the 4th most followed sinologist on Hungarian twitter I'm hesitant to accept this since you seem to prefer literary products over Chinese political investigation. In other words, it's not our area of specialized sino-expertise, just like I know jackshit about 1920s US or 1950s UK and what else is possible, even though I have some coarse ideas about it.
No. 84694 Kontra
1,4 MB, 360 × 202, 0:02
No. 84695 Kontra
Yeah, the CCP is just like greenpeace, only better.
No. 84696 Kontra
As someone who is specializing in ancient Chinese philosophy I can tell that Xi is in a favourable position, for he owns the nine Ding 鼎 vessels firmly, befitting of a sovereign.
The Legalist faction remains firmly in control at the court, favouring the modernist approach to economics during the Party’s discourse on salt and iron.

Need to consult the Yijing on the matter of the bueraucrat Hu though.
No. 84700 Kontra
Do you ahve something of value to say or will you just ridicule every serious discussion one can have on the subject?
No. 84703 Kontra
As the resident chinese on Ernstchan and hence the only source Ernst should trust, I hereby disclose the officially official reason for Hu's leave:
By having former president Ху, recipient of the First Class of the Order of Yaroslav the Wise awarded by the Ukrainian Rada, ushered out of the party congress, Chairman Xi signals to formally join the Russian side in the special military operation. Goyda! Slava pobede!11

>Hudum 叠篆
No. 84742 Kontra
I did not ridicule anyone or anything.

You ridiculed yourself when you wrote
>And geopolitically China could help the Global South with its aim to lead the energy transition out planet has to go through

Are we talking about the same China on the same planet? Because the China on my planet helps the global south and the rest of the world with efforts that can only be described as neo-colonialist/mercantilist: securing Chinese ownership of critical infrastructure and key-companies to ensure Chinese global dominance and markets for Chinese manufactured goods.

To say it clearly:
Flooding the world with 5g-phones does not help the climate.
Neither does pouring a metric fuckton of concrete to build projects like the Mombasa-Nairobi railway, which will never pay for itself, but was financed by loans from China. That's just classic "development assistance" of the worst self-serving kind on a very big scale, not 'helping the global south'.

Neither is the "global South"
>Leading the energy transition
They just use solar panels because they have lots of sun, but no real grid. There will be no 'energy transition'. Fossil fuel is burned at increasing rates, and the "global south" (can't say third world, so racist, right?) is a leader in THAT. If there will be an energy transition, it will be too nuclear energy, not to renewables, like you probably imagine. But don't sweat over that, renewables are not half as environmentally friendly as you probably imagine, lots of mining has to be done for those, lots of poisonous stuff goes into them, and the SF6 in wind turbines is the worst climate killer out there.

>Green growth
is bullshit. Either green or growth, can't have them both.
No. 84770 Kontra
In other words, Greenpeace is just like CCP, only worse.
No. 84857
>why do Chinese repress the Muslim minority in its west?
I made a longpost, so I put it in the fatposting containment thread >>84856
No. 84863 Kontra
You ridicule yourself with a longass post that was written on the premise that this is my opinion and not the opinion of the opinion piece I was sharing with Ernst...

>racist right?

Ach Ernst, and a shithole is a shithole is a shithole with just shit in it.
No. 84914 Kontra
>hurr reply seriously
>durr you ridiculed yourself by writing a serious reply
No. 84930
>As somebody who is favorable of technocratic methods, this is appealing and the argument is also interesting as in how the political lead legitimizes its lead in an "anti-capitalist" manner (growth is not the aim anymore).
That's not true however, is it? The aim is for the nation to be secured against global warming to such a degree that growth like it is necessary for the Chinese Dream to become reality is still possible. This is not different than in the west in this regard, the single nation states aim to safe themself so that their economies can continue to grow and in the last couple of years there has been a paradigm shift within their capital fractions which are now per se mostly willing to fight climate change and I'm pretty sure that as the climate crisis situation becomes more harsh we might see the western states act more authoritarian towards certain industries and capitalist interests, but is not anti-capitalist as such. It just seems the Chinese political model makes it more easy to react.
No. 84931
You ridiculed yourself by thinking I'm having the same opinion as the opinion piece but I was just paraphrasing it more or less so Ernst can decide if he wants to click the link and react to that text. Reading closely helps, wouldn't be surprised if you gave that advice not too long ago.

That was the question I was posing. Probably can be understood as moderate growth, or planned growth that might even be understood as qualitative growth instead of just quantitative which qualitative would be a derivative of. I don't really know, but I think it is interesting to see that there might be a different path that is taken. Maybe not, I know too little.
No. 84937
Well, at least I think it is true that in tue west the neoliberal spell of minimum state intervention and austerity is broken and we are in the shift to a new decade which has not yet found it's terminology?
No. 84938 Kontra
No. 84952
91 kB, 384 × 580
96 kB, 401 × 580
Which of these posters would you hang on your wall?
No. 84953
925 kB, 1638 × 2048
No. 84954
(Second poster, because dead rats and sparrows on walls are bad for appetite)
No. 84955
262 kB, 2180 × 1399
> dead rats and sparrows on walls are bad for appetite
Unless you're Chinese huehue.
No. 84956 Kontra
I had no idea he had some kind of redeeming features.

Interesting point of view. Noted.
No. 84957
25 kB, 582 × 426
281 kB, 800 × 1200
A third option that doesn't entail the deaths of million of people? If I was going to mess about with posters then I'd just get some prints of paintings you like or at least the happier side of China. Upbeat ones and tasteful/cheeky erotic images.

Also this: >>84954. Keep on mind that guests will see these images unless you plan on a secret shrine to Maoism.
No. 84958 Kontra
>A third option that doesn't entail the deaths of million of people?
In my defense, I don't think the working conditions at the print shop are that bad.
No. 84960 Kontra
No. 84967
231 kB, 960 × 1280
218 kB, 1000 × 1082
Agree. This is not good for your SOVL. You'll become benzo addict and will have to go through rehabilitation in Moscow. Please visit Russia and lie in our rehabs! Pleeease! Alternatively, consider Chinese Jesus.
No. 84968 Kontra
To the whole Uyghur debacle I'd like to add the following:

It's true that China is keeping the province under a soft martial law where the PLA is marching up and down with an increased presence, but the other side of the coin is that as the Chinese state went through a transformation during the last four or so decades as the Reform and Opening marched forward, so did the culture of the Uyghurs.

They initially (like the other Central Asian Türks) practiced a very lax form of Islam. Drinking, not beating up women for headscarves and so on.
During the 90s when the USSR collapsed and China was the most relaxed under Jiang, many Uyghurs saw that their relatives in Central Asia broke free from the red yoke and established their own countries, and many thought they could do the same now that Xinjiang wasn't boxed in by the USSR and China. As a state, "Ugyhuristan" would have breathing room.

This changed internal and external political situation triggered a "traditionalist" revival among a portion of the Uyghurs who sought to independence through acts of terror.
So of course Beijing stepped in to crush dissent with a mixture of violence and socialism, so for one they cracked down on open dissenters, jihadist and preachers, while for the moderates they decided the best decision would be to integrate them through work.
Basically it's an oversized public works and training programme to make sure that "idle hands don't become a plaything of the devil".

They will never "let go" or decrease their presence in the province. It's too valuable for two reasons: Its oil reserves and the geographical location.
And from the other side, an independent Xinjiang would be a godsend to the Atlantists because it'd fell the tree that is the Belt and Road initiative right from the bottom. Create a hostile state in Xinjiang and you have the Eurasian shipping line between Europe and the Workshop of the World crippled basically permanently.

So while you could say that from a western standpoint you could say China used questionable methods to quell extremism in Xinjiang, you cannot deny that our media's (over)focus over the past years on the whole Xinjiang debacle has been motivated the least by a concern for Human Rights(tm) and mostly by Washington's geopolitical interests in Eurasia in a quest to keep its hegemony.

I'd probably put up neither 2bh.
除四害! one is especially repulsive because it's not four characters.
No. 84969 Kontra
>除四害! one is especially repulsive because it's not four characters.
Is this an Ernstian assburgerism or will it cause pain to Chinese speakers?
No. 84971 Kontra
It's a perfectly fine Chinese sentence.
The three character thing is probably my dunning-krueger nitpick. Generally speaking it's good style in Chinese to have an idiom be 4 characters long (supposedly).
There's thousands of these so called "chengyus" that are 4 characters long.
No. 84973 Kontra
55 kB, 500 × 500
No. 84979 Kontra
I know it is off topic but because of the poster debate:

I had wanted posters of the Red Army Faction (3rd generation Baader-Meinhof Gang) of the late 1980s and early 1990s as reprint when I lived alone.
No. 84995
5/5 noice
No. 85027
258 kB, 893 × 533
How about this one?

Lmao, still haven't started studying 古文,so I guess there's only one path for me.

感谢 for your input! Btw somehow I got a straight A. Gonna have the prof write an endorsement letter for me now when I apply for the exchange program to go study at 北大
No. 85067 Kontra
76 kB, 423 × 580
90 kB, 431 × 580
111 kB, 580 × 404
I like it, maybe there is more to be studied.
No. 85165
78 kB, 630 × 432
We encountered this thing during classical class when reading Song era texts about compasses.
It's called a "Spoon Holding Towards South" or "South Pointing Spoon" (司南之杓).

Basically it's just a really funky/odd compass from the Han Dynasty made from magnetic metal.
You spin it however you want, but it'll always point towards the South, hence the name.
It just makes me feel full of joy for some reason. Don't know why.
No. 85175
1,5 MB, 1920 × 1080
1,3 MB, 1920 × 1080
They dubbed the Hungarian Folk Tales cartoon series into Chinese. This here episode is from 1977 titled "Bees on the train" and it's one of those "Socialist Folk Tales" where the way of telling the story is old, but the story is set in the present time with "comrades" and in a kolkhoz.

It's a strange aesthetic experience to listen to it in Chinese.

No. 85841
2,4 MB, 4032 × 2517
Spent some time at the library. Browsed the new Taiwanese books a bit and came accross an album titled “Hundred Masterpiecese of the National Palace Museum on Parade” and I immediately recalled how they have the Jade-cabbage. I asked if I could flip the album over (since it’s not categorised yet) and with the librarians permission I checked it to see if they included it and it was there. The last item in its section.
I was like “yeeeeh it’s in there” and then I showed it to the librarian and we had a good giggle about it, though I think she found it infinitely less amusing than me.

It’s such an odd item. It’s odd because someone carved it out of a supposedly bad piece of jade, odd because some museum curator took it out of a larger composition, and then it’s odd because during the KMT’s evacuation from the mainland someone consciously picked this and put it in a box to be shipped over to Taiwan.

As an item it’s sort of just there. Since it’s not part of its original composition any more, it’s devoid of any context which makes it feel almost like some funny meme we don’t know the meaning of.
No. 85864
Chinese language classes are hitting hard this semester, we got two new native speaking teachers from the mainland, one of whom almost only speaks Chinese and the other on a mix of Chinese-English-German and has a tendency to derail the grammar lessons and instead give us life advice or go on spicy political rants. Still feels like I'm progressing at double the speed as previously.
Gonna apply for an exchange year at the 北大,and we're supposed to already present some research topic that we'd investigate while over there. While I'm actually more interested in cultural studies, I'm thinking of doing research on recent communal living initiatives ("Integrated Community Development Plan", once again a random, probably overhyped, topic I picked up on Twitter):

Come on man, don't shittalk the cabbage, it looks scrumptious!
No. 86382
9,4 MB, 9000 × 5179
1,0 MB, 1297 × 3319

The People of Hungaria from the Great Western Sea
Hungaria is a country south of Polonia. Its inhabitants are as if they were Mongolians. Their coats are very short, and they tie their pants as if they were wearing feetwrapping bandages. They are highly intelligent and hold etiquette above all else. They learn to ride horses from an early age. Their necks are short, their gallopping is fast and they always carry with them a sabre, which is four chi long, brandishing it whenever they are on horseback. Their womenfolk are skilled in weaving and their faces are always covered with a thin veil whenever they leave the house. Their land is abundant in riches, cattle and sheep can be raised and their rivers are utilized. Gold, silver, copper and iron are all available in inexhaustible quantities.

What's interesting in this text is how Hungary is rendered as 翁加里亞 Wēngjiālĭyă. Which I've never heard before unlike with some other transcriptions or renditions like 馬加 Majia.
No. 86422 Kontra
2,1 MB, 1664 × 2421
Small discovery today: take a look at who translated this book (which was written by a, iirc, cia affiliate no less). Unsurprisingly, said translator's name was censored in later editions.

In History of Yuan it's 马扎儿

Actually... not only the model is pretty much a modern reimagination, the reconstruction doesn't even work albeit with modern material science. 在这里提起这个我简直有点羞愧...
I find the 「Four Great Inventions」narrative in general distasteful.

Congrats! Hopefully there're no more covid messing-ups when you're here.

It's acceptable but the four character form (四字格) better respects the prosody of literary Sinitic.
I believe it's also a thing in other Sino-Tibetan languages.
No. 86831
The news treda is dead but ironically TikTok gave me lots of videos from ("nation-wide") protests in China (several cities I guess).
It doesn't look like it will be dangerous to the regime but it made me think of those autocratic arguments that China's government is basically more democratic than democracies because its power is entirely based on the satisfaction of the population.
No. 86832
Yeah, german media is talking about this, too. White paper protest or something.
And the news thread is just on systemkontra, feel free to make a new one.
No. 86834 Kontra
>because its power is entirely based on the satisfaction of the population
If their government gets enough negative user reviews, Xi Jinping has to leave government.
No. 86835 Kontra
>feel free to make a new one.

eh, cannot find the motivation looking a good and suitable picture

It's market democracy bro, don't like the product? don't buy! What do you mean you aren't allowed to go? The other corporations don't speak your former corporate language, just learn it bro
No. 86836
It's psychologically difficult to be a firstie. Once you realize that you play on "very easy" difficulty, you understand that your achievements are not really your achievements and your failures are your fault. "Much will be required of the person entrusted with much". So you have to employ mental gymnastics and incoherent ramblings in order to explain how China is more democratic than your country and so on.

Check your privileges!
No. 86837 Kontra
You try to adress two things in one paragraph without using any markers to discern two different topics?

>So you have to employ mental gymnastics and incoherent ramblings in order to explain how China is more democratic than your country and so on.

It was not my position but a paraphrase

I open the today thread regularly, so I know the pressure very well or whatever this answer was jokingly alluding to
No. 86838
Man, it'd be so dank for a Chinese workers opposition to form. Seeing the absolute seething from both libs and uncritical MLs will be hilarious.