/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

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Hail Odin! by Christenklatscher666

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No. 61007
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Hello, I am a new in this place and I didn't find any real estate/housing thread so I'm creating one here. I will post some thoughts and updates of my journey on finally acquiring my own place. You can see this thread as my blog and use it as your own blog too.

I have a dream to live in my own place, so I dont rent a flat and saving up money. Since flats are too overpriced and I have a piece of land in the city, I'm planning to build a house. There is already a one bulding on that piece of land - a garage, but its not legalized yet. The piece of land is not connected to electicity(and a whole bystreet) but I believe that its a solvable issue. 2 weeks ago I found an architect who will make a house plan for me. He asked me to send him pictures of houses which I like and make a draft plan of the floors. Pic related are houses that I liked the most. I want a one-storey house with an attic and a semi-basement. If everything goes right, I can have a house plan with the needed documents and construction permission till the next Spring.
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No. 61009
Interesting threda, I am myself planning to purchase a plot of land and build something there. By my estimate, it would cost about the same as an apartment within my price range. The only downside is the project will probably take a couple of years to be finalized. Given I already work with a construction crew and an electrician I trust and are cheap, those are two assets I have that make this venture seem like a good choice. Plus, I would really prefer a house like pics related over an apartment.
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No. 61010
771 kB, 960 × 720
>>61009
I don't know the real estate market situation in Portugal, but I think that house is like 2-3 times more expensive than a flat. I decided the house over the flat because I already have(actually my parents do) a piece of land and a father with golden hands. Also, life in a house is a way more comfortable than in a flat. Also, I dream to adopt a dog.

Additional info on the house of my dream - I want its facade brickwork to be like pic related. Here in Ukraine such a style with different-colour bricks is called a "Bavarian brickwork".
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No. 61012
>>61010
>Bavarian brickwork
That's kinda funny because they usually don't use red bricks in Bavaria at all but in northern Germany they do.
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No. 61016
>>61010
That feel when that fuckin thing is way outside affordability to a lot of my generation. The housing situation between a place like China, with over a billion people, and here, with a quarter their pop but tons of empty houses and also a huge homeless population, is one of many reasons why a free market everything economy is utterly illogical fucking garbage. It's one of the only idiotic systems where an objectively good thing like housing surplus becomes seen as a disastrously bad thing, and where you basically have all the bad shit they warned us about with the Socialists but none of the good, so you get to deal with HOA's, banks, landlords, not actually owning your own property, being hassled by people, but still having to pay for it. It's all the lack of freedoms only now it costs more and people are trying to live in shipping containers as an alternative. There's one guy near here who lives on an abandoned lot in a tent. I don't know how he survives winter, or how he's not gotten hassled by cops yet. It's why people here are too dumb to understand everything is "Marxist" to them now because they don't understand the tyanny of someone else telling you you're not allowed to have a dog for example isn't the government or result of Marxism doing it, but the direct result of Capital owners and them umtimately filling the role of government but with none of the responsibilities or duties that actually comes with governing.

>>61009
The main reason for trying to afford a house is so the owner of your property is the bank and not another landlord to hassle you, but in either case you're not the owner of your home until you pay in cash.

I knew this one guy I worked for who knew everything was to know about construction and handyman stuff. The dude built his own home, then lost it in a divorce settlement, then built another home. He did all kind of neat shit like plumbing running through the foundation to heat floors in the winter. He worked for himself and had no insurance, so by the time he was old had enough expensive medical problems he couldn't work anymore and couldn't afford his medical bills, so the home he built and paid for himself he had to put some kind of lien on his own home with some bullshit mortgage arrangement to pay for his medical bills. When he dies the bank is going to repossess his own home he built with his own hands and land he paid for rather than what by God given right should've been inherited by his kids.

Personal possessions are impossible in the long term under a private Capitalist society.I was thinking about my drift yesterday and realized the full magnitude of my personal drift to realizing the truth, not that Capitalism should be destroyed, but that it must be destroyed
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No. 61018
>>61010
Well, a house like that on the market, in an area I'd want to live in would be anywhere from 180k-250k€, whereas a 2 bedroom apartment would be 150k€. House prices are still very high compared to construction costs, and sadly they're not going down.

>>61016
I'd buy in either case.
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No. 61019
1,6 MB, 5760 × 2592
I've spent some time to imagine how the house would look like, arguing with my father. We will consider it again tomorrow.
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No. 61020
>>61012
Aren't houses pretty affordable in some US places, like Mid-West or rural New England? Some years ago I checked the American real estate ad websites and some houses were pretty affordable(for American with +- decent salary).
>>61018
I'm planning to build it from the scratch, not involving the construction company. Also, not everything at the same time. Ideally, I build the house box, do 1 floor and move in there. And then do semi-basement and the second floor room by room, due to my financial status.
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No. 61040
>>61020
>not involving the construction company.
Not really a construction company per se, more like a eastern european construction crew I have worked with.
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No. 61071
I had a few updates and want to share them:
  • I made photos of the garage that had already been built on the land, to send it to an architect;
  • I discussed the house with my father, we painted the more detailed draft.

Yesterday I wanted to paint the first version of the draft to be sent to an architect, but was too tired after work and fell asleep. Going to do this today. I will send him pictures of houses that I like, photos of the garage, and photos of the first version of the plan, that I drew with my father.
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No. 61098
Today I sent all the files to the architect guy and he wrote me that understood it and ready to start working.
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No. 61124
>>61098
How much does it cost to build a house on the Ukraine anyway? I wouldn't mind picking up a Trabant if I got truly rich, but even if not I can't imagine having a house in Ukraine with a good enough job is that terrible necessarily. Other than the language I guess. Ukrainian sounds kind of weird to me.

>>61018
Even in rural areas you can typically expect to spend like $330,000 on an okayish house. A genuine suburban American home not even that nice or McMansiony is going to run you well over $500,000 at least. It's not just the cities. The housing market here is completely busted. I've actually seen just average houses going for 500k in middle of nowhere before, and that could cost you $1.5 million were it near a major city.

>>61020
Not really. You can theoretically get a house in literal middle of nowhere Montana, sure, but then you have to factor in the cost of not having any great job within a hundred miles. They are cheap for a reason. However yes if you can somehow make 100k yearly salary by working remotely it's a great place to live if you don't care about dealing with other people or society and just want your own cheap land. The problem is, that doesn't factor in the cost to stay living there while working any nearby job if you can't do it remotely.
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No. 61127
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>>61124
>Even in rural areas you can typically expect to spend like $330,000 on an okayish house.
>The housing market here is completely busted.
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No. 61147
>>61124
>How much does it cost to build a house on the Ukraine anyway? I wouldn't mind picking up a Trabant if I got truly rich, but even if not I can't imagine having a house in Ukraine with a good enough job is that terrible necessarily. Other than the language I guess. Ukrainian sounds kind of weird to me.
I don't know much does it cost, I expect it to cost ~50k$, maybe more idk. I'm planning to build it partially and moving in a not finished house. I don't get the second part of your message though.

I have a new update - today I paid a prepayment for the house project. I hope the architect won't steal the money because we have no contract. I'm risking but he had very good reviews in the internet.
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No. 61148 Kontra
>>61147
>I'm risking but he had very good reviews in the internet.

perhaps making you uneasy here but these could be bought
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No. 61149
>>61148
Well, the problem is that I need the project to be special for me because I want the project to be specialized for the land and the house has to be located near the garage that is already built. Just buying a ready project might not fit with my personal expectations.

This is why I drew a "project", including all the floors and the land scheme on paper, and sent its photos to an architect.
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No. 61856
Hi. Finally I can post some updated. An architect guy sent me a picture with draft of the first floor and asked a few questions. We still far from the ready project but it's the first his answer with some results and questions.
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No. 61972
>>61856
Care to share the picture he drew?
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No. 61985
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>>61972
Sure, why not. Here's the first floor. It's not finished because he still thinks about the stairs. Also we're discussing a lot of other small details.
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No. 62047
>>61985
Are doors opening into the room a cultural thing? I have a room where it is technically impossible for the door to open outward but otherwise every room I have is opening outward when standing in the room. You loose at least 1m² of the room for each door making the effective area of the room less but still paying for the same area.

I'm asking because it is interesting to see where things differ and why.
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No. 62052
>>62047
>Are doors opening into the room a cultural thing?
Room doors open inward here, at least in every place I've lived. There are exceptions for small rooms, though. The door on half-bathrooms can open out, because those rooms are basically the size of a closet. Closet doors typically open out, but I did have one which opened in for some reason. Half the space was unusable.

Additional cultural info: Front doors open inward, but in Florida the building code requires newly constructed homes to have them open out. That's because of the huricanes, as inward opening front doors can be blown open by strong winds. I always considered that a security risk, though, as doors always open towards their exposed hinge. That means to open them from the outside all you need to do is pop the pins out and the door will come off.
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No. 62054
>>62052
Unironically sounds like turning all our doors into Mezzuzahs, except for Florida, which is particularly ironic.
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No. 62056
>>62047
Checked my flat: three doors open inwards, two outwards, one slides into the wall (and sticks half of the times). Maybe there is no general rule here.
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No. 62059 Kontra
>>62056
I guess what ever makes the most sense at that point in the room i used. I looked and doors usually opens towards the room with most space or when it works best, when in doors. Sliding doors are probably most efficient either way.

>>62052
> Front doors open inward
I know the argument about putting a screen door in front in the summer, and also snow in the winter, but it has always struck me as stupid having your front door open in. In case of emergency you shouldn't have to stop and tear open the door while other people desperately pushes on you trying to get out for example. Also the chain you hook on to the door when you don't want to open to shady people outside is easier to break if you can kick the door in.

> as doors always open towards their exposed hinge
Is true to some degree, but that is a solved problem since at least many years ago. There are doors with hidden hinges but even the doors with exposed hinges are meant to withstand well trained firemen breaking in with every tool at their disposal for minutes, I think it is 10 or 20. In other words they are secure.*

> pop the pins out and the door will come off
No pins. The only way to take the door of its hinges is to open it first. Also the hinges are not part of the security mechanism.*

  • This applies to my apartment door and other like it. You can still buy shitty doors that cannot with stand a kid with a slingshot but why would you?

Anyway I find it interesting the small differences and why. Are there reasons for it or is it just the way it has always been done?

Polite kontra beacuse soon to be off topic I think.
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No. 62060 Kontra
>>62059
Sorry if I sound snarky but the "struck me as stupid" is from watching American cop shows where people always have their doors kicked in.
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No. 62077
>>62059
When your door opens inwards it invites Jesus into the room
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No. 62080
>>62077
Jesus as a vampire
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No. 62082
>>62080
Clearly they're not giving us the real stuff at Mass to have eternal life
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No. 62084
>>62047
Honestly, I don't even remember how doors are opening in my current place. I think its not very important thing and I will make a final decision during the building process.
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No. 62173
>>61985
How’s the living room/kitchen arranged? It all looks very awkward to me.
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No. 62189
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>>62173
I want the living zone to be closer to the main door and the kitchen to be closer to a big picture window. I don't have. I didn't find a photo that would follow the same scheme but I think it's a bit common case when the living room is combined with the kitchen.
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No. 62221
Told an architect a list of fixed I'd like to have for the first floor. Basically, I proposed to move the central door a bit right and change a little the plan for rooms. Now I'll wait for the next updates from him.
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No. 65276
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Nothing really happened since my last post. The architect guy is still working, we discuss some little details. Recently he gave me a number of people who can do topography for the land(1:500). As he said, the project will be done before the end of this winter. Then I can start the construction process. I still have no contacts of some builders who can start doing the foundation.

Adding a prototype picture to this post.
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No. 65278
>>65276
Looks very nice. Good luck.
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No. 66723
Hello everyone. I have no updates on the house project(it's still under development), but I contacted the guy who can do geodetic works(1:500) on the land, and get all the papers and approvals, required for the construction works.
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No. 67031
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This is what the house +- would look like outside, got this pic from the architect today.
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No. 67064
>>67031
How much did you pay for modeling + visualization?
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No. 67087
>>67064
The whole project costs 25000 UAH(900$). Kinda pricey but it is a personal project, typical project usually costs half of this price or even third.
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No. 67155
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I prefer this kind of facade - it looks more balanced
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No. 67794
This political situation confuses me a bit because I actually want to start the building process in the spring. And the house project is almost finished. Now I'm not sure what to do.
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No. 67797
>>67794
Surely not building a house until things have cleared up and future can be more estimated a bit easier.
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No. 67800
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>>67794
I'd listen to Mr. Germany above. Best wishes OP, for real
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No. 70281
Today I contacted my architect. Yep, I'm alive and I live in a calm(relatively) city. I didn't talk to him for a month, I think. I don't know whether it was a good thing to do or not to talk about the project, but he has a family to feed, and I can pay him when the project is finished, so keeping working is important. Currently, I'm kinda frustrated and not sure about building a house at all, but at least I'll have it on paper.
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No. 70282
>>70281
>Currently, I'm kinda frustrated and not sure about building a house at all, but at least I'll have it on paper.
It is a bit of a gamble. Let us say this war will end. Then building materials and workers will be in really high demand, and it will be a bad time to build a house.
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No. 70298
>>70281
Oeh

This thread took a sick turn.

What I wanted to say, slava ukraini.
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No. 70311
>>70298
Thanks.
Damn, I just realized that I wrote this message >>67794 just one day before the invasion.
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No. 70316
>>70281
Just saying you have my support and good feelings. Take care.
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No. 70323
>>70311
Ominous.
I almost said you'd be silly to worry about an invasion, now I'm glad I didn't :DD stay strong
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No. 71020
The project is close to finishing. Things that are finished for the project:
  • basement;
  • facade;
  • first floor;
  • mansard floor;
  • roof;
Currently, I am discussing where the house will be located on the land, the exact place. That + project of the garage(that already exists) + some small details and the project is done. I estimate the size of the house(both floors + basement, not counting terrace) about +-~200m2. But it's a kinda random number because I'm not a specialist.
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No. 71021
>>71020
Just a random thing that popped into my mind that have you considered orienting the house to optimize for solar panels? Regardless if you're going to place any panels yourself it might play a part in the evaluation of the building. In your case having a roof face(what's the correct term?) facing roughly to South. The best orientation being dependent on where your house will be located exactly. Roof pitch also matters but I wouldn't worry about that, there the building's design comes first and the panels can be adjusted for pitch themselves.

Otherwise sounds great. Having a basement is great.
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No. 71023
>>71021
>Just a random thing that popped into my mind that have you considered orienting the house to optimize for solar panels?
Of course! Half of the roof will be oriented South. And I'm going to place panels only on this half.
> Roof pitch also matters but I wouldn't worry about that, there the building's design comes first and the panels can be adjusted for pitch themselves.
I asked the architect to design the roof so that it could withstand the weight of the solar panels. I even called one company that sells solar panels, asked them about weights, prices, and other stuff to calculate the possible weight for the needed amount of panels.
>Otherwise sounds great. Having a basement is great.
Thank you. The basement is great indeed. My dream is to build a home gym in the basement.
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No. 71032
>>71023
Excellent! You had it all covered already.

One more thing I just remembered is that when your house is eventually built and finished, see if you can get a company take some pictures of the house with a thermal camera. You might discover some places where insulation doesn't work as it should for whatever reason. This might not be such a problem for you there down South :D But I noticed that a neighbor's roof had very bad insulation in some locations from a municipal aerial thermal scan. So I let him know and he fixed it, saving him big bucks with winter time heating. If you end up taking the pictures the best time is probably in the winter when the temperature differential is the greatest. Might even be able to do that with those dinky thermal imaging attachments for a smartphone but they have terrible image resolutions so you need to get up close to every nook and cranny.
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No. 72272
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Finally, my project is finished! An architect sent me the finished document (in PDF) today. I still need to legalize it and get required permissions but I've been told it's a matter of one week.

I don't know what is going to happen to me or to Ukraine but at least I finished the first stage.

Will post a pic a little bit later.
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No. 72273
>>72272
Which region are you from?
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No. 72282
>>72272
I don't phrase it as advice, because I am not qualified to give advice in this situation, but my thoughts:
If this war ends, you will be either in a free Ukraine with lots of destroyed housing that it frantically tries to rebuild or in a Muscovy colony, just another economically destitute Russian backwater in what looks like it actually might become like Iran, but with better nukes.
In both scenarios, building will be difficult, perhaps more difficult than it is even now.
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No. 72292
380 kB, 1800 × 1200
>>72272
Dogspeed in any case.
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No. 72307
503 kB, 1050 × 579
Here it is.

>>72282
Yes, I have the same feelings. But the project had to be finished no matter what because the architect was already working on it long before the escalation started.
>>72292
Thank you!
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No. 72357
21 kB, 158 × 152
>>72307
>>72292
It looks beautiful and it will be.

(sorry if it sounds puerile, best wishes, trying to help you even outside internet)
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No. 72365
>>72357
Thank you!
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No. 72644
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Yesterday I printed the project in A3 format. On the next week I will go through the bureaucratic procedure of getting a permission and the construction passport. Then I will research things related to building. But I'm not planning to start yet because of obvious reasons.
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No. 72645
>>72644
>On the next week I will go through the bureaucratic procedure of getting a permission and the construction passport

Is that stuff just going on as usual?
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No. 72648
>>72645
I will find that out soon. I don't see reasons why it shouldn't be so since the war has not reached my region.
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No. 79743
up
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No. 80546
Hello everyone, I'm back. I have almost no progress. My project was rejected by the city architecture department(or what its called, I don't know) because the mapping paper had no red lines on it. I contacted a guy who did that mapping for me, he will send me a proper paper today. Looks like in 2 weeks I will have a passport for my future house. Then I'll be looking for a construction crew & collecting money to start next Spring.
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No. 80547
Test
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No. 80548
>>61007
Test
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No. 80581
>>80546
Thanks für the update!
I think about buying a flat sylvie
It would relieve me from paying rent, but I'd have to take on a 30k loan or liquidate my stock depot. And it would tie me to this city. Will there be hyperinflation? Will my company go bankrupt? I expect bread prices to go up to 10€ per kg before the end of the year, and energy intensive industries to fold.
>Lol in 2 weeks reeeee
That is really not an answer. How is metallurgy or the paper industry or even textile industry survive this cost explosion? Politicians made us dependent on Russia
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No. 80589
>>80581
Is flat enough for you? Are you planning to start a family later? But you can not care about this because re-selling real estate in Germany seems to be not so hard.

In my opinion, taking loans in developed countries is nice because you don't really care about inflation in this case.
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No. 80591
The thing about owning a flat in Germany is that you still have to cooperate with the other tenants, especially if it's about things that concern the house.
With your own house at least you don't have to care about other people as long as you're doing what you're doing more than 3m away from their ground.
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No. 80592
>>80591
That's the main reason why I want to live in a house instead of a flat. Imagine making a nice interior and then some old man from upstairs floods your flat.
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No. 81206
I sent my application to get a construction passport again. Now, with an added red line. I will have an answer in 2 weeks. Then I'm going to apply for electricity from the local electricity supplier. Also, I'm currently looking for a construction crew to start building. I saved up some money, so I can start building this autumn or(preferably) in spring.
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No. 82800
My dad called me today and said that our project finally got the construction passport(he's the owner of the land that's why officially all the bureaucratic procedures were done in his name)! So many fixes had to be done but now this step is over. Now I need to:
1) submit an application for electricity, showing them that I am planning to build a house
2) find a crew to start the house basement on the next spring
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No. 82856 Kontra
>>82800
Congrats! It's amazing how much one can get done with some red lines in the right places. Good luck with the next steps.
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No. 84146
21 kB, 1196 × 752
This thread is turned one year old today. Still working on my dream.
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No. 84152
When you finally accomplish the dream, do you think you will get a lasting endorphin high, or will you get a hollow feeling that's like "oh... well, off to the next thing then"?

Because I've accomplished a long term plan some time back, and I got a very short high comparable to beating someone at a multiplayer video game, and then it was just an empty feeling until I formulated my next "dream".
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No. 84153 Kontra
>>84152
Being able to live in your own house built after your own wishes definitely beats any online multiplayer game.
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No. 84155
>>84152
Well, I have some other goals besides this one but in general, my main goal is to achieve some kind of lifestyle. Answering your question, I want not to achieve but to start living better - a calm life in my own house, with a garden, and some other things.
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No. 84160
>>84153
You underestimate how quickly the human brain converts novelty into normalcy.
Basically, take something you had to work really hard for, and imagine how someone who was simply born into that thing would feel about it. That's how you'll feel about it after a certain amount of time.
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No. 84172
>>84152
With real estate it's never done. Even if all you have is your own place there's so much to fix and improve that it's a lifetime project.
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No. 84187
my brother inherited a farm. the building itself is super run down, the land is fine and workable.

my brother bought a house in a town nearby like a year before he inherited the farm. so he has no intention of actually living there. (he just needs an office - for legal reasons)

I do.
and he is fine with it.

we got water connection to town water and an empty fiber kabel yesterday. previously it just had a well for water, but the water well was.. well, nothing was working there :D

i think in ~3-5 years i can move in there.
my brother doesn't want to invest too much monzeys (because he just bought a house), and i am poor as fuck. so investing time instead seems to be the way to go :3

>>84146
you got any idea how long it's going to take you? a lot of "maybe"s around with the current situation, i assume?

i think i first posted on EC about this when the messy living on the farm was still alive. should have been around ~2018. family from that side is rly fucked up. only working against each other, very toxic. stopped helping the messy living there (my uncle), because my aunt visited too often and always screamed and blamed everyone for stupid shit as long as she was around. even me trying to get rid of the rubbish laying around everywhere was wrong - because i didn't do it, like she would do it. well... and she didn't do it - so nobody did in the end. now she is banned from entering the premise, finally. even neighbours living a few 100 meters away told us, that they could hear her scream all the time, lol.

inb4 u deaded him: i actually tried to convince him to visit doctor and take a break in a hotel or something, but he refused. he didn't even have a shower, couldn't walk from house to street without a few breaks to catch his breath and so on... i stopped going there because of the toxic environment eventually (he was quite chill, thou).

eh.. this is starting to devolve into today threda stuff... i better stop here :D
>>
No. 84189
>>84172
This, very much this. I've seen it all along, all those people who got a house and said: Well, I need to do this and that, and then I'm done. No. You're never done. When you're done doing one thing, the next one comes up. The garden shed, the pond your wife wants to have, the roof, the garage, the lawn, the swing for the kids, the trees that need to be cutted, the heating, the gas/oil, the driveway, and everything the city administration throws at you. Also most people had tons of people helping them on their house, so prepare to be trapped in a neverending cycle of saturday helping, where you visit your helpers and help them out with their garden, shed, pool, driveway, you name it. You will get grilled meat, beer and watching football together in return, though.

I'd say that if you actually like doing stuff like this (working on your property surely is more rewarding than working for some Shekelberg company you don't care about), it's ok. But if you prefer sleeping late, slacking off and gaming to working on your house, then you're fucked.
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No. 84192
You have to be careful when talking about houses and lots of downstream work because you have to make a distinction between stuff I want to do and stuff I have to do.
And if you build a new house and the workers are doing their work properly, the stuff you have to do will be substantially less.
However, moving into an old house (in Germany the worst case is something built between the 40s and 60s), definitely WILL make you work for it constantly.

I can even provide examples:

The house I grew up in, it's a bit over 100 years old or so, no right angles, but at least built of stone, but apart from that horribly insulated and the proper course of action would be a complete gutting and having an armada of craftsmen rebuilding it. But who has money for that? Just this week my mom wrote that some radiator broke and some roof tiles seem to be missing.

Other example: My dad and his wife had one of those readymade houses erected 20 years ago. The house itself, while having thin (i.e. sound-propagating) walls, just stands there. Literally zero upkeep outside of the odd repainting. But my dad is constantly working in the garden, but that's entirely on him.
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No. 84195
>>84187
>you got any idea how long it's going to take you? a lot of "maybe"s around with the current situation, i assume?
Due to my estimations, I need 4-6 years to move in. It's enough for me to save up enough money and finish the construction. Actually, it can be done in less time but I'm doing conservative estimates. I live in a region, far away from the frontlines and I don't see how this may change at all. The only big thing is that I can get drafted into the army. In this case, the construction process will be postponed. Everything may change multiple times but since I can't predict or change this situation, I just adapt when changes happen.
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No. 84196
>>84192
>You have to be careful when talking about houses and lots of downstream work because you have to make a distinction between stuff I want to do and stuff I have to do.
>
I understand what are you talking about. Fortunately, I have a father who has some experience in building stuff(not professionally but for himself though), he just knows such stuff so I can rely on him.