/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

Currently at Radio Ernstiwan:

Hail Odin! by Christenklatscher666


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No. 6267
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There is a thread asking about German grammar, but why not make a languages general?

Why aren't you learning a language in your free time? Go for it, it's a good use of time. In a couple of years, you'll have an interesting skill.

I'm currently learning Russian, it's a horrible language crafted by Satan himself. Cyrillic is bad, but cursive cyrillic is just sadistic, it is no wonder that so many people resisted attempts at Russification.


Here is a link if anyone wants to suffer alongside me with Russian.

C'mon Ernst, learn a language!
No. 6269 Kontra
So sorry you had to see this.
No. 6270
47 kB, 600 × 575
>this T
You write it like on english, small cursive T is more like "m"

>В Украине
На Украине
No. 6271
Notice how I got some right and others wrong.
t. tired and thus even dumber than usual
No. 6273
>learning a language
>not creating one
That is not peak autism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James_Sidis#Vendergood_language

You have heard of esperanto, but what about Vendergood?
No. 6276
В/на украине is historical/political meme, ask me some day in historical thread, I will try to answer.

I like Klingon
No. 6278
I know this one :DDD Ukraine being borderlands
No. 6280
>learning russian
why the hell do you need it tho?

t. a russian living not in russia
No. 6286
Why russians can't reform their grammar? Modern Belarusian grammar was made in 20 century and it's just hear and write the same. Very simple and grammar rules only about correct pronounce. Meanwhile in Russia
While russian linguistics possesses some quite good traits, their grammar is a complete clusterfuck.
Also I think slavs don't get how powerful their word forming process is. We use boring words because of rules.
No. 6290
>and it's just hear and write the same
But it's not absolutely so, дз, ц, з, с aren't written with ь before soft consonants.
Also it had a rule forbidding ў in foreign words, but it's gone and irrelevant.
No. 6292
You mean orthography, because Russian and Belarusian grammar are practically the same? Russian language traditionally has a non-phonemic orthography, while Belarusian has a highly phonemic one, that's all there is to it. Reforming the language isn't really worth the effort. Also, just like Old English, Russian language probably was formerly spoken like it was written, but then the pronunciation changed, while the spelling stayed the same, and nobody bothered to update it.

>it had a rule forbidding ў in foreign words, but it's gone and irrelevant
It concerned any word where "у" alone created a whole syllable, if I'm not mistaken. I haven't heard that they dropped that rule, but if they did, then this is really fucking stupid, because "ў" corresponds to "w", so it's pretty much a consonant, and therefore cannot create a syllable and pronounced differently from regular "у".
No. 6293
>Галоўныя адрозненні ў правілах беларускай мовы 2008 года ад правіл 1957 года:
>Пашырэнне напісання «у нескладовага» («ў») на словы іншамоўнага паходжання (напрыклад «па ўніверсітэце» замест «па універсітэце», «гэта ўнікальная распрацоўка» замест «гэта унікальная распрацоўка»)
No. 6294
Yep, that's really fucking stupid: "па ўніверсітэце" would be "по вниверситету" and "гэта ўнікальная распрацоўка" would turn into "эта вникальная разработка", if it was in Russian. Either academics are imbeciles, or they simply succumbed to the whining of dumbass parents that their kids are having too much trouble learning Belarusian.
No. 6296
At first I wanted to argue, but then I remembered, that there are barely any native words in Belarusian which begin from У, they acquired prefix consonants В or (rarely) Г.
This way, "naturally" for Belarusian would be "па універсіцету вуніверсітэце" and "гэта вунікальная распрацоўка".
Yeah, it's really stupid. Never though of that.
No. 6297 Kontra
*Never thought
No. 6304
On the other hand, the same У/В alternation is present in Ukrainian and there's no problem with it. But they have the same restrictions, no alternation in foreign words.
Well, it could be worse, Taraszkiewica uses ў in names.
No. 6322
Russian is fairly easy for me to read but extremely slow to write/speak in. Every noun has like 30 different spellings and God knows how native speakers remember all the rules. And then loads of words don't even follow these rules anyway.

I mean, to type one moderately complex sentence I have to refer to an entire book of grammatical rules.
No. 6324
When you write, you are corrected in the school, but that's not an option for adults.
Read, speak, and you'll be remembering rules to the point so you use them automatically. There's no magic way in learning languages, the only difference between native speakers - you don't have 5 years of learning the language, when you can get help 24/7 from your parents.
No. 6325
Native speakers don't have to learn these rules, they follow them by an instinct.
No. 6326
Ebglish have 12 "times", useless articles that even most of them don't know why they needed, often specific order of wards and a lot nouns that not follow rules, much more than in russian tbh
No. 6332
Of course, it's coming to me gradually. But I do mean gradually.

I just can't imagine instinctively knowing 'okay, this preposition means the noun must be put into dative plural, which means the ending is changed to...' etc. Noun declension of course doesn't exist in English so it's odd to me.

Yes, the one thing I do like about Russian grammar is that word order is much more flexible than in English.
No. 6333
One question: Is it common for the average Russian to mess up declension? I see adult English speakers who still don't know how to use an apostrophe, so you'd think speakers of a more complex language would make more errors.
No. 6334
Articles are no more 'useless' than Russian cases. We manage to communicate just fine without those after all. They are often pretty relevant in general speech since you do often refer to a specific object rather than a general object.
No. 6336
It depends.
Some errors make into usual use and they don't feel like errors, see:
They used оплата за проезд, though correctly it's оплата проезда. And it's on the state site! Though, that's how the language changes.
Regular words surely won't make any questions in declension, but some rare - they do. One popular example is plural genitive of кочерга.
No. 6337
Interdasting. To me they sound interchangeable, though оплата за проезд sounds unnecessarily longer, or perhaps more formal?
No. 6338
>Articles are no more 'useless' than Russian cases
Absolute bullshit. Our cases is kinda what replace your "times". Your articles has no analogy in russian language at all.
this is an apple - это яблоко
this is the apple - это яблоко
No. 6339
оплата за проезд is mistake? what?

I bet it is same shit like difference between одеть and надеть or fact that there no word "ихний" in russia
No. 6341
It has nothing with formality, it's just a common error.
It's mentioned in dictionares as colloquial.
No. 6346
>оплата за проезд is mistake?
It's kinda like saying "Сколько времени?" instead of "Который час?". It is a mistake, but nobody really gives a shit about it.
No. 6347
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We used to have cases but we mostly got rid of them. Declension wasn't necessary for us. Also if you think articles are bad now, you need to study the languages from the time of the Heptarchy :-DDDD

We declined our articles :-DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
No. 6356
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You dropped also very usefull words, like thy/thyself

>We used to have cases but we mostly got rid of them.
You have different form of construction, and you choosed to replaces cases with different instruments. And in my opinion, this construction style is inferior to russian. Russian language allow much more freedom to build sentences, even words but same time remain more or less clear language, unlike eastern languages that more look like language from Star Trek TNG episode "darmok".

Of cource russhian need a bunch of fixes and changes, but overall in my opinion it one of the best languages in the world, that give you maximum freedom of speech combined with moderate threshold of occurrence and more west, than east level of concretely

t. not language expert but still

>languages from the time of the Heptarchy
Like 100 years ago you still have memes like same time exist и and і (and no, it's not like in urkrainian when i=russian и and и=russian ы, we had и, i and ы same time :---DDDD), letter ъ and end of every word that ends on consonant letter that not soft, letter ѣ that was used in 128 roots, mostly where you have identical words that means different, and you need to remember all of them, letter Ѳ that was absoluetly same as Ф, but was used in words that come from greek language in ancient times thought ortodox church. Same goes with letter ѵ that was used in some words instead и or i

There also some differences in world endings and minor stuff. And hovever when two last letters was obviously useless 100% and ѵ died by itself almost even before revolution, other stuff pretty cool, like how it look and why not :---DDD
2nd pic is pre-revolution meme, if you can read it
No. 6360
We still have thy, it's just formal English. We have a lot of things left over from Old English but they're not correct grammar anymore. I know I'm not the only one to use either outdated or false yet understandable words like muchly or goodly, and tbh as a native speaker there is a crapload of freedom in how English can be spoken so long as you respect word order because of how the language functions on words rather than suffixes. It's not inferior, just different. If something was objectively the superior method of communication, then language would naturally evolve towards that rather than evolving as different families much like how most people eventually domesticated animals because it was such an obviously useful thing.

Also the Heptarchy is the 5th-10th centuries. It refers to the rule of the seven main Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms in England.

>we had и, i and ы
Kazakh still has those in the cyrillic alphabet. They also have ә and а, у, ү and ұ, қ and к, н and ң and finally г and ғ. Old English also had a few letters that aren't used anymore, ignoring the runic system. ⁊ Ƿ Þ Ð Æ.

I'm not opposed to going back to the old alphabet though tbh. Remove the Fr*nch influence
No. 6361
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Russian used to even have ebin numbers:

Portuguese had sames, a complicated writing system that required you to know if the word was originally greek or latin to know how it was spelled. It got removed once the government decided that people needed to be able to read the fugging language and make it easier to teach to yokels.
It looked ebin though.
No. 6364
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>It's not inferior, just different.
Well, I personaly feel much less freedom when talk on english, than on russian. Of cource, major part of it because I'am not a native speaker, but still. English better as technical language, and if used correctly, it may be much more clear in many specific things. There also some therms that russian language don't have. However, I can also say, that english have problems with writing, and much more than russian - so many words written not like they sound, many letters have multiple sounds depend on their position in word that creating mess and broke spelling of many foreign words, hell lot of letters often you need not read, they are there only to make correct positions for other letters that have multiple sounds and this often extra confusing and create abominations. Adittionaly, spoken english much less understandable that russhian. Russian have more deep and "solid" sounds which making understanding of what you hear much more easer, and spoken english often become absolute mess that very hard to understand.

>Russian used to even have ebin numbers:

Well, all this memes with numbers are from much more ancient times that what I said about, lol. I said about 2nd half of XIX centuary and early XX centuary, where language exept some stylistics and endings was almost same, and i and Ѣ can be re-implemented even tommorow if somebody need it since it only orthography.

Go back in time , in times of Peter I and even before, when church language was same as public one, and you will get much more wierd and unpolished things with namy more letters lol.
No. 6372
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A lot of it is that the relationship between pronunciation and orthography has changed dramatically too. I have personal guesses on some of the letter combinations but I don't know if they're actually correct, like I suspect the 'gh' thing used to be a lot harsher sounding like a ğ instead and they never changed it because it was so gradual.

It's probably a native speaker vs learned speaker thing. A lot like how Russian humour is not really able to be translated because it relies on a very intimate understanding of the language. Lots of the linguistic freedom in English comes from knowing a lot of its quirks like how and when you can bend the rules, and rarely used forms of words that are not actually incorrect, or even just words that are incorrect but are close enough to correct that they make sense. Some American dialects have double negatives for example, and thick Australian English is more than an accent. Even New Zealand has Southland English which has different pronunciation to the rest of the country and has some different common use words like almost exclusively using wee instead of little. What I like about English is that there are enough rules that make it always pretty easy to follow along on even when someone talks weird but enough leeway with the rules for things to get ebin.

Also, Old English looks ebun, but it was more chaotic than modern English because no cunt knew how to spell :-DDDD
Pic not related but take a look at Middle English for some real classics in native speakers writing like retards.
No. 6374
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I like that Portuguese and Russian have a similar basis for weeknames, the sign of a society controlled by religiousity: Pagan weekdays suplanted by church sanctioned days

Понедельник (week) - Monday (Day of the Moon) - Segunda-Feira (Second Day)
Вторник (Second) - Tuesday (Tiw's Day) - Terça-Feira (Third Day)
Среда (middle) - Wednesday (Woden's Day) - Quarta-feira (Fourth Day)
Четверг (Fourth) - Thursday (Thor's Day) - Quinta-Feira (Fifth day)
Пятница (Fifth) - Friday (Friga's Day) - Sexta-Feira (Sixth day)
Суббота (Sabbath) - Saturday (Saturn's Day) - Sábado (Sabbath)
Воскресение (Cross day) - Sunday (Sun day :DDD - Domingo (God's Day)
No. 6375
It's воскресенье.
Also, in old Russian, this day was called неделя (from не делать), hence, понедельник, "после недели". The week was called седмица.
No. 6377
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Fug. Confusion was had.
No. 6378
>Воскресение (Cross day)
Воскресенье as already was said
Воскресение means "Ressurection"
No. 6380
Wasn't voskresenye made from the same PIE root as increase?
No. 6381
Hmmm... you try to connect it to word крестьяне that created not from word "cross"?
No. 6432
ja ucze się języka polskiego bo interesóje mnie historia polski. hard as fuck but i got nothing else better to do
No. 6550
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Is English the only language to have two equal literature norms?
For me it sounds very strange, it's like there would be Russian Russian and Ukrainian Russian and they would be both taught.
No. 6555
Norwegian has Bokmål and Nynorsk. It's even more funny when you consider that the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes speak pretty much the same language. I'm sure if the Kalmar Union had never broken apart they'd be considered as dialects rather than languages.
No. 6568
There is already Ukrainian Russian. Ukrainian schools don't teach children to write "on the Ukraine" in Russian.
No. 6633
What resource can I use to read basic Russian sentences? I've considered children's books but I've no idea where to find them. Duolingo is far to repetitive in that regard, I'm almost at the end of the course yet it still gives me sentences like 'the cat is on the table' for practice.
No. 6634
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I'll give you some children books when be back at home.
I also recommend you to watch movies and cartoons russian with subtitles, also play games.
This is how I learned english lol.
No. 6635
Thanks fren
No. 6648
The link I posted in the OP has a chapter for basic sentences. Chapter 5 I believe.
No. 7131
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How would you talk to a stranger over Internet in not very formal situation?
English surely doesn't have this problem, it's universally "you". I wrote a letter without markers "du" or "Sie", but I've got the answer with "Sie" and I was a bit surprised to get such an answer.
No. 7200
Lel. Fresh out his twitter:
TSA agent (staring intently): I’m trying to figure out who you look like before checking your ID.
Me: ok
TSA: that cyclist Armstrong!
Nearby agent: that ain’t Lance Armstrong
Me: he’s right
TSA: oh you look like that skateboarder (checks ID). Same last name too! Crazy!
Me: crazy
No. 7206
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Well I wanted to learn ukranian, since during my voluntary job in there I really like it and odesa make me feel like combination living in homecountry and cool foreign country.
I have huge boner for history of ukraine because the place used to atleast semi habitet with khazars and other turkics and it's homeplace of kievan rus, so it'd to be cool to live in there. But realized regardless I'd do I'd regardes as something like bydlo sex tourist and the infamous "why are you in ukraine" question gets tedious. So I almost disregarded that. Still have special place for those people in my heart.

Right I want to learn german and swiss german now, my father knowns the both but I dont spend time with him too much. I've downloaded Michael Thomes audio and getting the basics.
No. 7216
Let's be friends and unlock the secrets of Eastern Europe together.
No. 7223
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befriends you
No. 7375

can kazakh bernd understand this?

I only understood the part "bizim bir kazak sözü var" and "gözü var" part.

first one means we have a kazakh proverb. couldnt understand the rest of the song even thought it sounded awfully familiar.
No. 7377
I dunno about the rest. I am flat out understanding spoken Kazakh, but the bit you quote is understandable but off. In Kazakh I think it't be "bizdiń Qazaqtyń sózińiz bar". Could be wrong though, self teaching out of a book is not the ideal for these things :-DDD
No. 7599
> While russian linguistics possesses some quite good traits, their grammar is a complete clusterfuck.
Russian pronunciation is also a complete mess, so it's better to stick with a more morphological spelling.
No. 7769
2,4 MB, 18 pages
Human infants develop language remarkably rapidly and without overt instruction. We argue that the distinctive ontogenesis of child language arises from the interplay of three factors: domain-specific principles of language (Universal Grammar), external experience, and properties of non-linguistic domains of cognition including general learning mechanisms and principles of efficient computation. We review developmental evidence that children make use of hierarchically composed structures ('Merge') from the earliest stages and at all levels of linguistic organization. At the same time, longitudinal trajectories of development show sensitivity to the quantity of specific patterns in the input, which suggests the use of probabilistic processes as well as inductive learning mechanisms that are suitable for the psychological constraints on language acquisition. By considering the place of language in human biology and evolution, we propose an approach that integrates principles from Universal Grammar and constraints from other domains of cognition. We outline some initial results of this approach as well as challenges for future research.
No. 13798
So i am currently learning some Russian and I am just at the very core of the basics, I've just passed learning the alphabet. I saw that some russian wrote that English is a clusterfuck when it comes to pronounciation and he claimed russian is supposed to be better.

I am here to disagree, russian is not pronounced as written at all, I have already encountered several exceptions already and there is this word that for some reason is driving me completely mad "скорого" the г isn't pronounced as a g anymore it is more like a very soft g sounding like a v, why is that?

Yeah, it is really funny that norwegians had some sort of identity crisis of them being danes that they created their own version of norwegian.

>It's even more funny when you consider that the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes speak pretty much the same language.

While I agree that the languages have many similarities I would not call it pretty much the same. Spoken norwegian is like 20% intelligible to me while written form where i have time to think it's like 60% intelligible to me.

I will tell you what language are basically the same languages. Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian. As a reference I will give you that as a Serbo-croatian speaker, slovenian is as intelligible to me as danish.
No. 13804
From mine point of wiew, it much better than english for example, espessialy if you not Колхозник. And in russia at least it what written - that how you read it 99% of time, unlike english of french.
No. 13805
> the г isn't pronounced as a g anymore it is more like a very soft g sounding like a v, why is that?
You may say "g" too, it be kinda jewish-south accent but nothing that terrible. Some letters sounds a little bit different trought pronounciation, it more case of vowels, but it just general talk and you will easely guess it by yourself when trying to pronounce concretic word yourself.
No. 14466
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I'm learning French, Korean, and Chinese.

French was almost by accident, as I was getting tired of the difficulty of memorizing Korean words, and wanted to see how easy French would be in comparison. Turns out, almost exactly 10x easier, and I go through 100 new French words each day compared to 10 Korean. I have 10 more days before finishing my 5000-word French Anki deck.

I'm using Duolingo to help cement basic vocab, and learn French and Korean grammar. I previously used it for Spanish, and it worked well in providing a basic foundation in the language. I highly recommend it as a low-effort way to get started in your language of choice.

Interesting things about each language if you consider learning them:
French: This will sound obvious to most, but at least 80% of the words you learn are identical or near-identical to English words. Grammar is really easy too. French really is a no-effort language to learn if you already speak English.

Korean: It's listed as one of the hardest languages to learn by all bodies that measure such things, but the alphabet and grammar are all very regular and easy to learn, although the grammar is alien and takes some time getting used to. The only problem is that there is almost no shared vocabulary with any language outside of East Asia.

Chinese: Chinese is the easiest major world language to learn, except for the shitty writing system. Chinese grammar is like English but without all the stupid details and irregularities. The pronunciation is easy if you ignore tone, which you more or less can if that's the one thing keeping you from learning the language. You can be understood without them, and most Chinese people will still praise your Mandarin because they have very low expectations of foreigners speaking it.
Of course, chinese moon runes are cancer, but you can accomplish a lot without being able to read them - and it will be easier to learn them if you already know a good deal of the spoken language. Chinese is actually, along with French, a great low-effort language to learn.

Russian spelling has two faults:
  1. g is pronounced v in -ego and -ogo endings.
  2. Stress isn't indicated except in learner texts.
If you know the stressed syllable, a Russian word's pronunciation is completely predictable from the writing.
Cyrillic is an aesthetically horrible writing system though.
No. 14467
Portuguese and Spanish both have Europoor and American norms. As is the case with English, the American form is better.

I don't think the Quebecois have enough cultural clout or confidence to establish a separate written standard from France, though.

China and Taiwanese Mandarin.

Arguably Malaysian and Indonesian but those are often considered separate languages.

North and South Korean.

Persian is codified separately in Iran, Afghanistan, and Tajikistan. Tajik is especially different due to Soviet reforms.

Hindi and Urdu are the same language at lower levels, but use different alphabets, and the higher registers are based on different source languages (Hindi uses Sanskrit, Urdu uses Persian and Arabic).

It's actually a quite common phenomenon, and in almost every case the differences are greater than that between American and British English. Aside from spelling differences that don't reflect pronunciation differences, there are very few words in literary English that differ between America and Britain.

also minor quibble OP, but linguistics and language learning are not the same thing.
No. 14497
>linguni thread
Many yays were had.

I want to post but phoneposting a shit. I will elaborate on my experience when I am back home. KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE thankyou
No. 14520
With EC speed this thread will live next 1,5 months
No. 14534
My first encounter with languages as an adult, and being fascinated by them since I was a child, was back in 2010 when I was unemployed and searching for a job. I downloaded Rosetta Stone and tried to learn Russian. I had a great time but I was using it alone with nothing else. It was not enough so I used Google translate as a dictionary (yes I know that was a wrong move) and I went on until level...2? I think. I dropped it due lack of discipline.

then I tried to remove the rust off of my German language back in...2012? so I decided to use Duolingo alone. It was my first experience with this tool. It was not bad but I dropped it due to wörk.

Next, due to a certain circumstance back in 2015 I tried to read up on Mongolian. I found a website via Omniglot (I think?) that taught basic grammar and pronunciation, and seeing that I had some Cyrillic and German background (for the ö's and ü's in the language) and became really fascinated by it. When I finished the website I was able to form simple questions and I loved it, but then dropped due to lack of discipline. Then an Estonian on cabbageboard pls dont ban me gave me a book on the language. I started reading it and I found out that it needs way too much discipline for my time as this language is hard, and a book and that website are is certainly not enough. Also, Mongolian learning materials are really hard to come by on the internet, Omniglot's resources - most of them - are dead links and I do not know how would I continue studying if I ever decided to do so. Maybe there will be more resources or a Duolingo course on it in the future?

Moving on to 2017, I went to a psychiatrist to find out that I suffer from anxiety and depression, and I was making progress with the doctor, I decided to dig an old fascination and use it as a form of therapy - I tried to learn Greek. And this time I was very lucky as the resources on Greek are fairly abundant (compared to Mongolian lol), so I downloaded and printed an entire book (that also had audio samples), used Rosetta Stone, a web dictionary for translation, some youtube videos dedicated for the language (and not those idiots on webcams saying WWWATSAPP GAYS clap TEDAY AM GANNA TEECH U SUM GREEK tihi~) and Google translate for pronunciation (I can certainly certify Google translate on that for Arabic, the pronunciation itself is absolutely correct but the nuances and tonality of the language are not 100% correct). I kind of have a background on Greek tonality because I used to listen to the Greek time slot on the local state radio back when I was a child because they used to broadcast Greek music and I really liked it, but I was also interested in how the language did sound from the announcer. After making some very good progress in studying the language (I was expressing my anxiety by spamming writing "I dont know any more. Help me" all over my work notebook and on white boards then erasing them). I dropped it as well due to wörk taking over and also lack of discipline.

Now one might ask me, why those languages? Why not learn something actually relevant like French or Spanish?
Because a. Strange languages fascinate me, b. I am an autist, c. Reasons.
No. 14536 Kontra
I always seem to forget that. I am still adjusting to EC's speed.
No. 14546
55 kB, 497 × 476
My anda.
By the will of the Eternal Blue Sky, have a free unlisted youtube video of a rare album of Mongolian music.
Do you still have the book the Estonian sent you? I want to study Mongolian but I'm poor and the only good book I can find is $60.

Also, if you're into autism-pleasing languages that are also useful, try Korean. It has alien grammar and phonology, but a low barrier to entry, lots of materials for learning, and a ton of media to consume even if you don't like k-drama and k-pop.
No. 14548
fug, forgot the link :-D

Another good autism language is Quechua, btw. Literally the perfect human language.
No. 14549
21,4 MB, 473 pages
saijna baijna uu?
ofcourse! See PDF attached.

I would also suggest going here first before diving into the book
watch the videos, understand them, then dive in.

for some reason, I am not feeling Korean at all. The only Asian languages that fascinated are Mongolian, Vietnamese and Chinese, and the latter two are assraep hard.

SAVED! I really love throat singing! In fact, I can throat sing a little bit! Thank you so much!
No. 14550
>Genghis Khan was not a Turk.
>biji kurdistan
No. 14551
Yeah I remember looking at briefly at that while I was digging through Aztec and Inca languages. Are there any resources for it?
No. 14553

Thanks mate!

Chinese is easy, just time consuming. The spoken language is one of the easiest in the world, it's just that the writing system doubles the amount of shit you need to memorize if you want to read. However, there are tools you can use to convert characters into pinyin, so theoretically any digital media could become readable relatively easily if you know the spoken language.

Vietnamese is just a bitch to pronounce, every other part of the language is easy.


>Are there any resources for it?
There's a few books on Amazon, but unless you speak Spanish it's hard to find good materials. The grammar is really nice and regular, so I think with sample texts, a dictionary, and some web pages as grammatical reference, it should be doable. But that's not an ideal situation, of course.
No. 14556

Thanks mate, saved!

Chinese is easy, just time consuming. The spoken language is one of the easiest in the world, it's just that the writing system doubles the amount of shit you need to memorize if you want to read. However, there are tools you can use to convert characters into pinyin, so theoretically any digital media could become readable relatively easily if you know the spoken language.

Vietnamese is just a bitch to pronounce, every other part of the language is easy.


>Are there any resources for it?
There's a few books on Amazon, but unless you speak Spanish it's hard to find good materials. The grammar is really nice and regular, so I think with sample texts, a dictionary, and some web pages as grammatical reference, it should be doable. But that's not an ideal situation, of course.
No. 14557
>Chinese is easy, just time consuming. The spoken language is one of the easiest in the world, it's just that the writing system doubles the amount of shit you need to memorize if you want to read. However, there are tools you can use to convert characters into pinyin, so theoretically any digital media could become readable relatively easily if you know the spoken language.
I heard that a number of times, and this tempts me to try it - what with the language itself being easy but one has to memorize a lot of symbols, and to be honest my brain is a spaghetti nowadays...

I can make out pinyin a little bit, so that might help me through my (next?) journey...

>Vietnamese is just a bitch to pronounce, every other part of the language is easy.
I kind of expected that - the language is easy part.

You know what's a bitch to pronounce? Paxto. WHY THE FUCK DOES A LANGUAGE NEEDS FIVE FORMS OF YE? And the script, oh the script. six iterations of the letter ح? thfuck?
Whenever I see Paxto I have the same feeling of how westerners look at Arabic, just scribbles, or sometimes, REALLY fucked up Arabic.

And you know what's amazeballs? I am thinking of delving in it because I am autist and Paxto fascinates me. ecks dee, di, dy.
No. 14560
27 kB, 402 × 348
I would like to learn Chinese but I'm not sure the Caucasoid skull is capable of containing and comprehending so many shapes and tones.
No. 14565
There aren't actually THAT many different shapes the combinations of which make up Chinese characters. Once you get the hang of it they stop looking like random strokes and memorizing them becomes more natural
t. casual learner of Chinese
No. 14566
It's pretty straight forward if you get the basics down.
The characters build on one another, and once you know a few basic ones, it'll stop being a random jumble if meaningless lines and becomes a reasonable code system.
No. 14569
Learning Kazakh pronunciation is hard for me because of my accent. We tend to speak very forward in the mouth, using flap-consonants liberally to facilitate this. Then in Kazakh, the throat makes probably more than half of the words in common use, so it's basically learning how to talk all over again.
No. 14573
Do some reading on phonetics. Once you know the nitty gritty of what's going on, it's very easy to pronounce all sounds in every language (except for tone and pharyngeals and clicks, those take practice even if you know what's going on).
No. 14574
I'm more concerned with understanding the language itself before learning to speak without a thick accent. People can find it tricky to understand you with an accent but impossible to understand you if you don't speak even kind of proper. As it stands with comparing to audio samples I have from the brick, my pronunciation is accented but probably passable. The biggest shortfall is just the vocab and grammar parts which I'm still a ways off on.

It's just funny that I catch myself not giving myself the throat cancer I need to be sometimes because I'm used to speaking mostly with the other end of my mouth.
No. 14594
What this good man said >>14573
Wikipedia has a very good IPA database that has audio samples on how does a certain letter sound, but for the muscle movement and throat contractions, I have no clue. As far as I know Kazakh does not have strange letters like Caucasus languages, but I am no judge of that as I havent had a good read on it, also we have a kazakh friend that would be a better judge on his language.

Coming to think of it...
>Arabic with thick Australian accent
[c&a intensifies]
But the amount of the word koss [Arabic for cunt] per sentence would be amazeballs
No. 14595
Oh, I am familiar with our resident brick. Now that I think about it, we would be coming up on hanging out for 2 years now. Jesus fuck, time flies.

Also cunt is less common than other four letter words. Mate is the most common by far and like pretty much any word like that is defined entirely contextually. Could be your best friend or the guy you are in a fist fight with.

One of my most common phrases is 'yeah nah mate' followed by something else. Like disapporving of something is "yeah nah mate, that's fucked" and the opposite being "yeah nah mate, that's hectic/sick".

Rate dialect.
No. 14601
fully sick/10
>fully sick/10
<fully sick/10

We say "son" a lot (yabny, which short for ya ibny - oh son!). My go to phrase is "son, please, have mercy" (yabny er7amny yabny!). Usually said when someone else is being an absolute idiot or stubborn or both.
No. 14603
Simultaneously sounds kind of polite and condescending. Ebin.
No. 14813
Can any of the Russian Ernst translate what he is saying?
No. 14817
My 7th symphony is inspired by hard events of 1941. I dedicated this composition to our struggle against fascism, to our future victory over the enemy, to my home town Leningrad. Now I will play an excerpt from the first part of the 7th symphony.
No. 14819
No. 14933
Trying to learn ukranian ang german again. It's 54254817th time I drop out and restart again, feels unfocused man.
No. 14934
532 kB, 3334 × 812
Why is Spain so heavily represented on the internet and why do I not notice this?
No. 14937
Can someone explain me the origins of language or share academic papers about it
No. 14940
2,5 MB, 310 pages
>Why is Spain so heavily represented on the internet
A brief article on the subject of language usage online. It breaks down native speakers online and online content available in each language.
>Can someone explain me the origins of language
I can't remember how or when I found this book, but it might be what you're looking for:
Speak:A Short History of Languages
No. 14941
thank you
No. 14974
Spain isn't, there's just half a billion people in Spanish America.
No. 14989
There's a few really weird countries I wouldn't expect who seem to now be having a presence online too, like Brunei and Mongolia.
No. 15017
Anyone got some experience with learning German grammar and syntax on your own? What kind of tools are useful? I lived in Germany for 5 years now and this is what I am struggling with the most. I have good vocabulary and good understand, just have hard time talking without butchering grammar and syntax.
No. 15019
Sounds like it must be a pain im the arse to learn proper German.
Maybe ask the russian with the learning thread. His Germam seems to be quite good.
No. 15031
I find that Duolingo is good for internalizing basic grammar, up to intermediate level for some courses.

I haven't tried their German course yet, but it's very low effort and free, and you can test out of the early levels that just teach vocabulary.
No. 15039
You need practice.
Practice, practice, practice.

The main issue is that you need to fully comprehend and understand the grammar of it, when to use what. thank you captain obvious that was fun.

Tools like Duolingo and Rosetta Stone may be great, but certainly not enough alone. Pick up a book about the language in Danish (and not one of those LERN TCHERMAN IN FIFE MINUT HIHI) so it would better provide you with an explanation about it.

What I would do, is watch German media intensively so I would get the feel of the language - ofcourse, Germans here would be a better judge of what to watch.

Or, if you're really serious about it (need it for work or something), go to a Goethe-Institut (or anything similar), learn the traditional way and interact with your teacher.

I learned German back in school for eight years and it went to rust. I used Duolingo to unrust it but found out it was not enough.

Later on I tried to pick up Greek and found out that the best method for me to learn a language on my own was a combination of Rosetta Stone + Duolingo + a book + online dictionary + some websites that broke down grammar for me. What I did miss was watching Greek media and practicing with someone. I figure it's the same for German as well.
No. 15981
No. 16016
This is sort of how American English sounds to me, especially for the younger generations. Older generations (35-40++) have a more decisive and respectful tone with lots of the very famous american friendliness.

Ofcourse all of that is my own personal experience with Americans from work and the internet and excluding American media.
No. 20093
Summer is coming, so I will have free time finally and I want to dedicate it to learning Hungarian - my unfinished gestalt for almost 10 years now.

Therefore I humbly ask Hungarians or anybody who learned it on his/her own to share some tips.

My request for now: what are good Hungarian radios? With music and some speaking.
Also, news sites in Magyar
Thanks in advance baratok
No. 20118
If I recall it right, Kossuth Rádió (https://www.mediaklikk.hu/kossuth-radio-elo/) is the one that broadcast shows and news. Don't know about music. There is no radio that broadcasts exclusively Hungarian music.

News sites, I don't know. I don't read the news.
I don't recommend index or 444 because their writings are crap when it comes to grammar and spelling. (Though index.hu is the most read one, and it has plenty of content on a multitude of subject from cultural events to politics related news.)(I'd consider 444.hu an overglorified blog in contrast, and their tone and wording is really poor in a lot of cases.)
Magyar Nemzet (https://magyarnemzet.hu/) has a print version, so that should be better, but then again, that might be overly political. (What isn't in this day and age, though?)
I've heard people say mandiner (https://mandiner.hu/) is good, but I'm just simply really anxious to recommend anything.
No. 20119
For radio stations you might want to look around here:
Since I just found it I can't give you an honest opinion. Most radios play both Hungarian and foreign songs. Bartók is for and about classical music, Kossuth is sure have a lot of talking.

As news sites... you might wanna forget those for now, how about checking https://www.nyest.hu/ out? It's mainly about languages, linguistics but you can find other topics, science and some politics as well.
No. 20120
Aw, man, I remember hearing about that one at school.
Shame I don't have the willpower to sit down and read through their articles properly.
No. 21644
No. 21645
Oh dog. I finished the Hungarian duolingo course, but it required extra perseverance. It is really humbling to try a language with so few loan words and so little relation to Germanic and Romance languages. Someday, I will return to the challenge. I just wish I had started when my grandfather was still alive. As a crotchety old man, whenever someone spoke to him with a thick hispanic accent, he would just respond in Hungarian.

Interesting resources, thanks for posting.
No. 21708

I believe all languages are weird
No. 21713
>Two sounds, those represented by the “th” in “bath” and “bathe”,
luke, use "Þ" and "Ð"
No. 21717
Where are the two different sounds?

It's an "a-th" and a "æ - th" to me.
No. 21724
Dunno, I thought one is more -s and other is more -z or something.
No. 21728
It has plenty of loanwords, you just don't see them, because they've been "magyarized" quite a bit. (And a lot of them are slavic or german loanwords, so they don't stand out to an English speaker, but there are plenty of latin ones too, since we used Latin up until the first part of the 19th century as a language of science and administration.)
The fact that during the "Language renewal" we also just sort of made up new words. (They usually have a sound etymology, it's just that they were artificially created to "renew" the language and cleanse it of cumbersome Latin and German terms.)
(But in a lot of cases those got "magyarized" too. Like for example they wrote Philosophia, which got turned into "Filozófia", "assimilating" it into the language, making it look more "natural".)
And of course I think the number of foreign loanwords depend heavily on what environment you use the language in. I doubt a bunch of workmen would get much out of you spouting words of Latin origin, but someone with a better education will probably understand you if you try "magyarizing" Latin words. (Though some people frown upon this. I got multiple complaints that I use too many foreign phrases and words.)
No. 21729
Bathe sounds like lathe
Bath sounds like thing
No. 21737
From memory they were interchangeable back in Old English too. You just didn't use eth at the beginning of a word for whatever reason. I mean, I'm all for bringing back Anglo-Saxon Latin as the alphabet, but it was only slightly less odd than the one we have now.
No. 21752 Kontra

Literally the same, just a slightly different vocal before the "th"

(And they showed that Americans can't even pronounce English vocals correctly.)
No. 21785 Kontra
That's literally the same as saying that z and s are literally the same. Just because your barbarian ears can't hear the distinction doesn't mean it isn't there.
No. 21819
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Following OPs suggestion I started the Duolingo course on Japanese. The gamification suits me well, although I think I'll prefer to learn the grammar from some other resource. If you want, you can add me to your friend list, my user name is "6ToT6upK"

There is an achievement for having friends.
No. 21820 Kontra
Well done, dude. Also your gramps was a funny guy.
No. 21867
9 kB, 352 × 360
Befriended you. Srsly tho, what's the help of it? I don't see any features besides seeing your XP in comparison to mine.
No. 21874
Hello colin,

There are none except for an achievement. I think you get their virtual currency for achievements but I am not sure. Also, the virtual currency is useless to begin with. Still I feel less lonely. Maybe for some people seeing the XP gain of others is motivating because it gives a sense of competition.
No. 21884
Check out 4chan's guide to learning Japanese and prioritize learning kana and kanji. I used to study it but then I had things to and I've forgotten about it. I'll probably start again soon, we can keep each other motivated.
No. 21885 Kontra
things to do*
No. 34572
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Here's a zip with a torrent to a good pack of resources for learning Persian. I've used it before, and it's probably got enough resources to take you up to a low intermediate level. It's even got some Tajik resources, if you want to learn Persian with a normal human alphabet that writes all the vowels (but looks much uglier than Arabic script).

Of course, you would never learn Persian if not for some level of autism. But I think it's a good choice for several reasons:

  1. It's very easy to learn. Pronunciation is easier than Spanish, and the grammar is easier than any major European language. Very similar to English in some ways, but a bit more regular, and with fewer verb tenses and aspects. Unique among Indo-European languages, except for English and Bengali, it lacks all grammatical gender!
  2. Being by far the easiest regional language to learn, this is the best way to get a direct window into Middle Eastern culture and Islamic civilization, whether you have specific or general anthropological interest.
  3. There's a very large body of arthouse cinema made in Iran. I haven't seen any of it, but it's very well received internationally. Iran has an interesting subculture of film, where Marvel-style blockbusters are literally haram, so the only way talented directors can express themselves is through highbrow works.
  4. If you're not an American or Brit or Frenchman, Iran is supposed to be a very nice place to visit. The people are friendly, the food excellent, and it has amazing natural and man-made beauty that can't be found anywhere else.
  5. And if for some reason you ever want to visit Afghanistan or Tajikistan, Dari and Tajik are just regional dialects of Persian, so you can use your Persian language skills there. It's also still spoken by a lot of people in the big cities of Uzbekistan, though most of the population has by now switched to Uzbek.
Pics are tangentially related. As a minor hobby, I look at Google Streetview images of Iran. There are thousands of panorama shots from all over the country, but most of the time I find myself exploring the green forests of the Alborz mountains.
No. 34583
I wish I could visit Iran someday. It sadly isn't risky because of their people so much as their government. And the reason it's dangerous because of their government is because our government has acted like scummy assholes to their people for the better part of a century.
No. 34614
3,3 MB, 1920 × 953
3,4 MB, 1920 × 953
I know. The trip I'd most like to take is a motorcycle journey all across Iran, taking in the expansive desert vistas, the remote villages clinging to valley walls, the isles of greenery amidst the sea of brown and yellow, the rock-carved legacy of great empires, the lush rainforests of the north.

But even if I renounced my US citizenship, I'm still worried it'd be too dangerous. Some butthurt provincial basiji might get it in his head that I'm a CIA spy, and once you're behind bars, you're a political tool no matter what.
No. 34626
Even if you renounced your citizenship and stuff, your tour would be impossible, because Iran banned motorcycles, and they'll turn you away at the border if you ride one, even if you have a visa.
No. 34654
>Iran banned motorcycles
What? Really? What a based country!
No. 34684
If your bike is above 220cm^3 then you can only use it during weekends and outside populated areas, so it’s an effective ban.
No. 34685
Why do you know something like this?
No. 34686
Maybe EC shows wrong flag once again?
We have an Aussie under Britain ball.
No. 34703
Anyway, this law should be a model for every country.
No. 34903
No. 37706
The IPA is cool, but the problem with it is that the symbols aren't 100% precise. Like one example my linguistics textbook gave is that the [p] sound in Russian and English is slightly different, even though the same symbol is used. IPA symbols are precise in the context of a specific language, obviously.
No. 41702
Can people in England or Ireland understand just what in the absolute fuck Scottish people are even saying?
When is a language no longer even its parent language? Like is this what proto-Romance languages sounded like?
No. 41703
Uh, neither english nor scottish are of the romance language tree. English is germanic and scottish is most likely celtic.
Here, check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages#/media/File:IndoEuropeanTree.svg
No. 41704
I am aware of that. I apparently accidentally the end of that sentence.
>Like is this what proto-Romance languages sounded like to Romans?
It probably wasn't as clear given that wording. Meaning, is this like how the earliest splits sounded like in language splits. Or how modern Slavic languages might sound in their earlier archaic forms to speakers of some proto-Slavonic.
No. 46883
Just over a month ago, I found a good site for learning Japanese. Caveat: It's paid, and though cheap per month, it only bills per year, so I had to put down >$80 once the trial ended.

However, I don't regret it at all. The lessons are clear and informative, and the program's flashcards are integrated seamlessly with them. Most important for me, there's a daily streak system, which is very helpful in making sure that I do at least a bare minimum each day.

You can choose anything from a one-year to a four-year pace to complete their program, which will supposedly place you at JLPT N1, i.e. functionally equal to a native. From what I've seen so far, that seems plausible. At the very least, I'm sure that I've learned more in 30 days than I would in a semester-long university course. At an average of 2.5 lessons per day (the fastest pace being 4), I've covered 375 kanji and just under 500 vocabulary items. It takes about 1-2 hours per day, depending on whether or not I do the full 4 lessons. If I was taking the most casual pace with 1 lesson per day, it would probably take no more than 30 minutes (and by this point, I would be at ~160 kanji/200 vocab words).

Highly recommended if you have any interest in learning Japanese, especially if you're a lazy fuck and have trouble learning languages because of it: https://www.nativshark.com/my-journey
No. 47111
but russian sounds beautiful
No. 47112
>Portuguese and Spanish
only portuguese

the difference between european and latAm spanish is just the preference on pronouns (but both are accepted)
No. 47165
1,8 MB, 7653 × 5125
2,7 MB, 9129 × 6276
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Hello frens, here are a few of my favourite linguistics-related maps I've come across. There's a bit of variation in each due to the lack of consistent and reliable reporting of the information in the region so they're all interesting and a bit inconsistent. There's a lot of history from the details in these maps
enjoy frens
Thank you for the Persian resources fren. The (surprising) lack of resources for it seems like the hardest part about learning the langauge.
>I can throat sing a little bit!
Do you have any good resources for it? I've wanted to try to learn it as well.
Altai Hangai has a lot of other songs too you should check out if you haven't as well. Huun Huur Tu is a nice artist as well. Here's some stuff:
No. 47170
60 kB, 310 × 400
For the record, the FAST course really sucks.
I'm now using Beginner's Russian with Interactive Online Workbook by Anna S. Kudyma and Olga Kagan and it's far more functional, even if it isn't free.
No. 47317
Looks great. I've been thinking about getting one of those books[1] for quite some time now but having access to online resources is definitively a great props for learning

[1] https://www.tochkaru-book.com/
No. 47439
>Thank you for the Persian resources
I've found a surprising amount of decent materials for learning Persian. Much more than I expected. If I cared to devote the time to it, I don't think I would have a problem reaching fluency of understanding, even without finding a conversation partners.

On top of the torrent, there are a few decent and expansive online dictionaries (this is the best IMO https://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/hayyim/), a site that takes a Persian short story and presents it with vowels and mouse-over translation (https://www.lib.washington.edu/static/public/neareast/yekruz/ - ignore the broken formatting and the warning about not using internet explorer, it works fine when you go to an individual section), and a website that lets you stream a ton of Iranian TV shows in their entirety for free (forgot the name and can't find the link ATM, but I can get it if you're interested).
No. 47539 Kontra
11 kB, 195 × 258
>I'm learning French, Korean, and Chinese

No other languages?
No. 54936
How much does Amish reflect modern German?
No. 54937
Frankly, I can't understand shit. Sounds like something they talk in the inbred villages of the alps.
No. 54938
>How much does Amish reflect modern German?
Not at all, I can only recognize very small fragments, like "Was" (What?), and even that sounds screwed from the pronounciation. The fact that it is a little muffled doesn't help things either.
No. 54940
Very little. The pronouns are similar, and some simple words I can recognise, like gucken, gehe, leben, mit=>metz/s and so on, but otherwise it's not really similar, it went through a lot of sound changes too by the looks. It also seems to be mixed with English when it comes to the vocabulary. (If I didn't have the translation in English, I wouldn't have understood anything.)
The cause is probably the fact that like >>54937 said it's not descended from Hochdeutsch/Standard German but from some weird dialect that you'd have trouble understanding even if you encountered it in Germany as a German.
Like I was studying German for three years in HS, met two Swiss people and I did not understand a single word they said to each other in their dialect.
No. 54941
I want to add, there are still people speaking "Penssylvania Dutch", seemingly also in part by some kind of amish/quaker/whatevers, which is largely derived from the palatinate dialect.


Basically it sounds like someone from the palatinate region speaking with a pronounced american accent. Of course there are some words nobody uses anymore, but I can understand most of what they're saying.