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„There is no place like home“

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No. 7862 Systemkontra
167 kB, 1225 × 735
60 kB, 1225 × 735
5 kB, 192 × 142
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/03/fire-engulfs-brazil-national-museum-rio

>Brazil’s oldest and most important historical and scientific museum has been consumed by fire, and much of its archive of 20m items is believed to have been destroyed.

>The fire at Rio de Janeiro’s 200-year-old National Museum began after it closed to the public on Sunday and raged into the night. There were no reports of injuries, but the loss to Brazilian science, history and culture was incalculable, two of its vice-directors said.

>Rio’s fire chief Colonel Roberto Robaday said the firefighters did not have enough water at first because two hydrants were dry. “The two nearest hydrants had no supplies,” he said. Water trucks were brought in and water used from a nearby lake.

Fucking Brazillians. I am actually mad that they managed to destroy this beautiful museum with a bunch of Portuguese artifacts brought from Portugal by their first Emperor to the ground. The museum was also previously used as the palace of Portuguese kings when they fled to Brazil.

Feels bad.
>>
No. 7863
56 kB, 500 × 259
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No. 7866
Someone made a thread on SSC for people to dump the pics of their past visits to the museum

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2118810
>>
No. 7867
>>7866
Nice, thanks for sharing.
>>
No. 7885
shouldn't it be possible to recover the fossils and the meteorites? after all they're mostly made of minerals so I'm not sure a regular house fire could harm them. even if the fossils have been crushed by debris it should be possible to reconstruct them
>>
No. 7963
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-03/argentina-unveils-new-crop-tax-as-macri-seeks-to-balance-budget

Argentina desperately needs money, and the solution is to tax its main source of foreign cash: the soy exports.
>>
No. 7971
>>7885
The problem with fossils is in how they react to extreme heat. Just as glass bottles shatter in freezers as the ice expands so too will extreme heat shatter objects by expansion of air in cracks and the sediment itself.

What you end up with is not large broken pieces but something you sweep up with a dustpan and brush. Don't picture bone, picture sand.
>>
No. 7979
Doesn't really fit in here but I didn't want to make a new thread. I was listening to a finnish anti-comunnist song called "Kremlin uni" and now it's not availabe in my country. Is youtube really blocking anti-communist songs? What is this shit?
>>
No. 7982
>>7979
Germany known for its crazy music copyright issues.
>>
No. 7983
>>7963
Still cheaper than many quality stuff.
>>
No. 7984
>>7971
Interesting. Thank you for the explanation.
>>
No. 7990
806 kB, 1440 × 1080
>>7862
>Pessoal, não salvou-se nada da Linguística. Perdemos todo o acervo de Línguas Indígenas: as gravações desde 1958, os cantos em muitas línguas sem falantes vivos, o arquivo Curt Nimuendaju: papéis, fotos, negativos, o mapa étnico-histórico-linguístico original com a localização de todas as etnias do Brasil, único registro que tinhamos datado de 1945. As referências etnológicas e arqueológicas das etnias do Brasil desde o Sec. XVI...Enfim, uma perda irreparável para nossa Memória Histórica. Está doendo demais ver tudo em cinzas.
>TL: Nothing was saved from Linguistics. We've lost everything in the Indigenous Languages Archive: the recordings from 1958 forward, the songs in many languages without living speakers, the collection of Curt Nimuendajú: papers, photos, negatives, the original ethno-historico-linguistic map with the locations of all of the ethnic groups in Brazil, the only record that we have from 1945. The ethnographic and archaeological records of the various ethnic groups of Brazil from the sixteenth century forward...In all, an irreparable loss for our historical memory. It hurts so much to see everything in ashes.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10157860251524488&id=370115324487

It felt better when I just assumed it was colonial records and statues. The indigenous history is gone forever.
>>
No. 7991
>>7982
This is 95% chance the likely reasoning, although honestly probably what's going to happen now is everybody is just so tired of poltard shitposting they're going to start getting pushed off in general. I have mixed feelings about this in the same way I have mixed feelings about keeping children offline.

On the one hand it would indeed be nice to get the worst, most retarded people offline away from where I have to deal with them. On the other hand you can't magically go back to pre-Eternal September days and I am overall opposed to regulating the internet, however these are also exactly the people who with an ounce of power the first thing they'll do is try censoring information and controlling and censoring the internet.

>>7862
What did we lose?
>>
No. 7998
83 kB, 640 × 640
>>7990
It's indeed horrifying. That's why you make backups.
History teaches, as they say, that nobody learns history. We will lose so many things in the future and nothing will be done.
>>
No. 7999
>>7990
>Nothing was saved from Linguistics. We've lost everything in the Indigenous Languages Archive: the recordings from 1958 forward, the songs in many languages without living speakers, the collection of Curt Nimuendajú: papers, photos, negatives, the original ethno-historico-linguistic map with the locations of all of the ethnic groups in Brazil, the only record that we have from 1945. The ethnographic and archaeological records of the various ethnic groups of Brazil from the sixteenth century forward...

Macaco tier
>>
No. 8003
Rich people are such complete and utter fucking scum
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lawyer-for-homeless-man-dollar400k-in-donations-is-all-gone/ar-BBMStbi?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Literally stole $400,000 from a homeless man. These people disgust me.
>>
No. 8014
https://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/09/massachusetts_2018_primary_liv.html

Good news: Brianna Wu lost the primary in the 8th congressional district to incumbent Stephen Lynch.

Bad news: Brianna Wu got >20% of the vote.

Yes, Masshole Democrats are that stupid. At least we can rest easy Brianna Wu won't be holding any political office...for now.
>>
No. 8116 Kontra
>>8014
>Brianna Wu
>Stephen Lynch.

Are we supposed to know who these people are and what the difference is one of them got 20% or even 80% or otherwise?
>>
No. 8140
>>8116
You're not going to pretend you don't know who Brianna Wu is, are you? Even people with only a cursory familiarity with Goobergate knows who she is.
>>
No. 8141
>>8140
I don't know either of those tbh.
>>
No. 8142
>>8141
Stephen Lynch is far less interesting than Brianna Wu:
https://lolcow.wiki/wiki/Brianna_Wu
https://lolcow.wiki/wiki/Brianna_Wu_for_Congress

Dear Schizenu expected us to see more of Brianna Wu in action because he was so convinced Ms. Wu garnered enough popular support from Bluecheck Twitter and the "failings" of Gamergate that the residents of the 8th Congressional District of Massachusetts would flock in droves to bring a victim of Gamergate into political power. Nothing personal Schiz, but you were wrong. As alarming as Ms. Wu earning over 20% of the vote might be, my predictions that the campaign would fail was correct.
>>
No. 8144
>>8142
...who the fuck are you even talking about and why should we care? Literally no one gives a shit. No one predicted he would win. This is of massively less relevance than Manning running for office. I have never even seen a single person claim what you are claiming Nebraska you retarded high school drop out fuck.
>>
No. 8145
>>8144
I'm not Nebraska. Remember the spat we had back on old EC about Gamergate? You predicted Brianna Wu would win.
>>
No. 8158
The eternal Anglo strikes again

Not satisfied with destroying Germany they now destroy their graves for cheap television

http://thepipeline.info/blog/2016/01/13/the-real-cost-of-black-digging-a-personal-view-by-military-historian-robin-schafer/

>I was among those who fought against the screening of “NAZI WAR DIGGERS” when it was first announced in 2014 and I happily joined the fray again, when I learned that Channel 5 was to show in Britain under the new name of “BATTLEFIELD RECOVERY”.
>>
No. 8192
>>8145
Who is "we"? I personally never said such a thing. I also don't know why you keep trying to import poltard drama here. Regarding Wu, seriously who fucking cares? Gamergate became a failure and a cringefest that literally nobody actually cares about one way or the other. Although, the fact that this guy got 20% of the vote anyway is pretty sad.
>>
No. 8327
I'm not sure where to put this but this is an interesting article
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-09-04/secrets-of-las-vegas-s-exclusive-high-roller-cosmopolitan-sweet
Be it noted that Las Vegas itself is literally a US city that was built by organized crime. Both the Italian mafia and Jewish mafia worked to help transfer the US gambling and vice capital from Atlantic City out to the middle of the desert where they wouldn't be so bothered by the cops. But this is, I think, a special sort of level of Capitalist dystopia
>It’s no wonder, then, that hosts often become engrained in their client’s personal lives, being invited to weddings, birthdays, sports events, and kids’ graduations. They get to dip into the casino’s coffers for gifts that will cement the bonds, says Kelly Van Aken, vice president of national marketing. That can be anything from a fabulous bottle of wine to an $18,000 Birkin bag, or a hand-delivered platter of Peking Duck from their favorite Vegas restaurant.
Imagine having a company basically founded in a sea of organized crime hiring employees to be your "friends" and come to special personal events to shower you with gifts so that you'll stay happy with the corpo and keep gambling your money away there. Also nowadays like half of these people are Chinese or East Asians.
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No. 8328
72 kB, 640 × 360
>>8327
>>8327
Have you watched Louis Theroux's Gambling in Vegas?

It mentions the friends deal you mentioned.
They interview a particularly interesting gambler who was offered some really insane suite to go gamble at the casino.

Link:
https://youtu.be/Lzbz0HDVKEs

It's pretty dystopic and I liked it.
fugging captcha ree keeps fucking up
>>
No. 8337
>Brazil’s oldest and most important historical and scientific museum has been consumed by fire, and much of its archive of 20m items is believed to have been destroyed.

In Brazil everything is named after Jews so I bet a mysterious force was behind this fire
>>
No. 8379
>>8327
I've been reading about this gambling industry in USA and elsewhere in these past months. They're the largest employers in Nevada by far, and MGM is one of the biggest employer nationwide, it hires more than 50k people
https://vegasinc.lasvegassun.com/business/public-record/2012/mar/19/list-largest-employers/

They're also most of the most expensive buildings in the world, if you exclude infrastructure stuff (like nuclear powerplats), both in Vegas, Macau and Singapore, the three big gambling cities of the world today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_buildings

And the biggest hotels in the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_hotels

They also have the highest wages in USA for hotel-related jobs, more so than fucking Florida or NY.

I read somewhere that due to all of this success other states and cities decided to also allow gambling, which made gambling industry spread nationwide and las vegas lose its importance. People don't need to travel to Las Vegas to satiate their gambling addiction anymore, and because they don't need to travel there anymore they also don't consume the other services in the city and its hotesl, so it all falls appart. But Las Vegas is still growing, the Wynn complex is still being built and it's going to be a multibillion project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wynn_Las_Vegas)

Also in Europe there are small towns that live entirely from a specific casino, and Monaco owns most of its success to the Monte Carlo casino too.
>>
No. 8388
539 kB, 1118 × 816
>>8379
>I've been reading about this gambling industry in USA and elsewhere in these past months.

Have you enjoyed our convoluted Native American Reservation gambling situation?
https://sni.org/government/nys-gaming-compact/
When New York wanted casinos(prior to 2013 laws that made it legal) they made a deal with the Seneca Tribe to operate them on New York land that would sort of become Native land. Obviously law suits have followed.
>>
No. 8389 Kontra
>>8388
Picture explanation:
>Indian gaming operations in the U.S., overlayed on a map of population density. Indian gaming is permitted only on tribal trust lands, so the geographic distribution of this industry is skewed by the long history of Indian policy
From:
https://www.aeaweb.org/research/has-tribal-gaming-been-a-boon-for-American-Indians.php
>>
No. 8409
2,0 MB, 40 pages
>>8389
Yeah and of course also the slimy fucking retards just think "well, unfortunately people are smoking less and less so we have less tax money. How to make up the budget shortfall?
I know! Let's build fucking casinos!"
Gambling is a major source of revenue to state budgets. Funnily enough NY was the first to come up, but it is the case with lots of states other than NY. There's also lots of riverboat casinos around the South which I think might be a mostly Southerner thing https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/louisiana/articles/2018-01-16/louisiana-lawmakers-to-consider-riverboat-casino-changes basically it has to do with state laws about gambling on the land so they just set up casinos on boats for people to gamble up and down the rivers. Riverboat gambling is such a prominent part of American history that we've got one funny origin of a poker term from it
http://pokerterms.com/river.html
>The River:
>The last card dealt in Texas Hold'em and Omaha, also called "fifth street." In a five card stud game, the river is dealt face down to each player individually.
>To make a winning hand on the river, as in "rivered." (verb)
>One credible theory is that the term came from the Mississippi riverboats on which poker was played in the 1800's. Sometimes, cheaters would purposely deal a final community card that would improve their own hand. If caught, they would often be thrown overboard, into the river, thus giving the "river" card its name.
>>
No. 8423
>>8388
>>8389
>>8409
Gambling nowadays ultimately is about entertainment, not addiction nor trying to make easy money. People already spend a lot of money in entertainment these days, might as well entertain yourself while trying to make some money out of it (sure 99% at best only recover part of their money, but some do get out of it with more).

The point here is that in this age of middle class with big wages most people have just too much money to spend on superfluous stuff, and they spend it on experiences mostly. Tourism, fine dinning, gambling and other stuff like that, there's a term for this "transumerism" (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/transumer.asp) which is basically a new kind of consumer focused on spending his money on experiences rather than ownership. The term was firstly coined to classify consumers of airports, by the companies who owned such places, because they had to focus on ways to make money out of the passengers while they were still in the airport, this way they could charge less fees from the airlines, which means even more flights and even more passenger-costumers in the airport; basically the airport becomes a shopping center. But term gained popularity among market analysts and social scientists when they perceived this pattern of consumers who want to spend their money on experiences, rather than buying stuff. They are typically educated waged people with somewhat high wages (thus the airport thing, typically executives who spend a lot of time traveling around paid by the company), they have no reason to buy stuff because they make their money out of the knowledge that they have in their area, and thus offer their services instead (again executives, consultants, analysts, bureaucrats, etc), and are highly paid for it. The term latter expanded to middle class in the first world today, because they all are waged people (and thus don't need to worry about accumulating wealth, and worry about accumulating knowledge instead) with too much money to spend. So they seek to buy experiences rather than buying stuff (except house and car), tourism and fine dining are the two biggest forms of transumerism, but gambling is also a form of experience-entertainment. This is why gambling industry is being legalized everywhere in the world in these past decades.

Think about the amount of money that teens and young adults spend on games these days, specially with these luck-based microtransactions, it is basically gambling already, but worse than gambling because they can't make real money out of it. Hipsterism too is a consequence of transumerism, people paying a lot so that they can consume unique products (usually food). Light drugs such as marijuana too are at least part a consequence of this form of entertainment and consumption. The whole point in the end is that as long as we're living in this age of middle class, this age of waged people who earn too much, all of these experience-focused forms of consumption will go on making a lot of money, the middle class itself will demand that they should be legalized, and like I said they really aren't gambling because they're addicts or because they're trying to become rich, they're gambling just because they want to spend their money.

This might be harder for you to perceive because USA was the first country with a sizeable middle class with strong purchasing power, so your society has been in this situation for longer and still spearheading it.
>>
No. 8429
American media censorship won't tell you this but
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/23/prison-strike-us-canada-forced-labor-protest-activism

See there's a problem with creating the largest criminal underclass in the world particularly by abusing the legal system to do so and create a new slave caste. The Russians did the same thing with gulags.
>>
No. 8438
Well, Arab Spring sure turned into something horrible and shitty
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/middleeast/egypt-protest-sentences.html
>>
No. 8439
34 kB, 550 × 779
>>8423
gambling is also widely used to wash monzeys clean.
>>
No. 8447
118 kB, 634 × 757
Depressed 29yo who worked for minimum wage at Seattle airport stole a $30million airplane and went on a joyride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD5sFrTGFnw

Can anyone diagnose him by his speech? Surprisingly he had a wife and kids.

>The perpetrator, an airline ground service agent, performed an unauthorized takeoff, and F-15 fighter jets were scrambled to intercept the aircraft. Sea-Tac air traffic control made contact with the sole occupant
>>
No. 8448
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No. 8450
47 kB, 695 × 390
>One tattoo. 100 years. 10,000 free pizzas.

>That was the deal offered to people in Russia last week when Domino's Pizza in Russia began their "Domino's Forever" campaign on social media offering "free pizza for your whole life".

Burger tier late-capitalism
>>
No. 8451
Today protests ended be pretty lame. Like totally lame.
They also started campain by bying other "liberashkas" so the become against navalny and basicly I feel that today start possibility that any orginised protests that we achived in recent years be broken again and there again no orgonised opposition in russia.

Woo-hoo! It's really time to fuck off from this shithole.
>>
No. 8453
>>8450

>One tattoo. 100 years. 10,000 free pizzas.

Would
>>
No. 8457
11 kB, 480 × 360
>>8451
>It's really time to fuck off from this shithole.
Meanwhile a film by Russian liberal is banned in the EU because it discredits this Ted Talk about Putin uploaded Aug 14 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT254smRufA

https://www.newcoldwar.org/film-andrei-nekrasov-magnitsky-act-behind-scenes/

The documentary (The Magnitsky Act behind the scenes):
https://d.tube/#!/v/newamsterdam/f9yutgpy
>>
No. 8458
>>8457
>Meanwhile a film by Russian liberal is banned in the EU because it discredits this Ted Talk about Putin uploaded Aug 14 2018
Are you a native English speaker? It seems your native language is Russian.
>>
No. 8461
>>
No. 8464
>>8461
I fully understood your post, it simply has the mistakes one would expect from a Russian speaker.
>>
No. 8465
>>8464
He is that 4cancer-type spammer. Belorussian said he is autist probably, don't be surprised if he not american eather since it easy to post via proxies on EC
>>
No. 8471
>>8450
>>8453
This is how the world system of the antichrist would work. You're literally selling yourself and your body to be owned by a corpo in exchange for their pizza. Although I have to admit, if it was anything else the answer would be no and still is no, but man lifetime of free pizzaalthough, Dominos is pretty shitty pizza
>>
No. 8473
407 kB, 1213 × 618
>>8447
His voice reminds me of this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEhVMzPoJQE
>I've played video games before so I know what I'm doing
lol no you don't

>I wasn't planning on landing it
I'm surprised he didn't get shot down for that statement.
>>
No. 8489
>>8473
>lol no you don't

>Beck said the aerial maneuvers were "incredible" and that he "did not know how [Russell] achieved the experience that he did."[38]
It finally answers the question of what a vidja simulator pro can achieve.
>>
No. 8491
>>8489
Official Moscow Metro train driver simulator runs on Unreal Engine.
That's what I wanted to say.
>>
No. 8493
Wait so is piratebay finally caput?
https://www.techworm.net/2018/09/the-pirate-bay-down-best-torrent-sites-download-free-movies.html
https://torrentfreak.com/prenda-lawyer-pleads-guilty-in-pirate-bay-honeypot-case-180818/
I can't access shit and it's giving me weird lag. Is it now no longer safe and just a honeypot?
>>
No. 8504
>>8493
You get vpn adds as an external pop up, some mirrors are worse than others.
Some sites are up to date, some aren't.
Just search reverse piratebay this will give you a site lists at least ten mirrors.
And always use magnet links.
I downloaded bowies discography, kinda disapointing last night.
>>
No. 8511
>>8504
Wait so can I download without getting a lawsuit or what? That and the legal cases and everything else makes it sound super sketchy to me now, unless that was their whole objective. Ironically enough it's probably porn more than anything that will get you aggressively prosecuted.
>>
No. 8515
>>8511
i can't find it, but i've read some time ago that the american providers are illegally throttling p2p traffic (and government doesn't care in this case).
they may also have a list of the different mirrors and make it look like the server is at fault for the lag.
is uj3wazyk5u4hnvtk.onion working fine?
>>
No. 8516
>>8515
>i can't find it, but i've read some time ago that the american providers are illegally throttling p2p traffic (and government doesn't care in this case).

The same thing happens in Portugal.
>>
No. 8517
>>8511
idk grow some balls
>>
No. 8518
226 kB, 1920 × 1080
146 kB, 1920 × 1080
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No. 8519
132 kB, 1920 × 1080
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No. 8533
A good update piece on the efforts to contain the latest Ebola outbreak in DRC. It seems like Merck's rvsv-zebov vaccine is really a game changer, as well as innovations in treatment facilities and improved containment strategies. However there was just a death reported in a previously untouched Congolese city in North Kivu, Butembo. This does not portend well as the 2014 outbreak was initially thought to be contained before arriving in major urban centers and exploding.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-ebola-congo/ebola-fight-has-new-science-but-faces-old-hurdles-in-restive-congo-idUSKCN1LQ0HZ
>>
No. 8546
>>8533
Are you a kind of epidemiologist or something? Do you work in healthcare?
>>
No. 8552
80 kB, 665 × 669, 0:00
>>
No. 8554 Kontra
>>8552
It hasn't even begun
>>
No. 8575
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hANCMRyZuAY
Same time, 70 years annivercity of best country in da world.
Thousands and thousands of people with torch combined in slogans that praise glorious leaders of DPRK
>>
No. 8635 Kontra
Ukrainian TV channel 112: President Poroshenko considers coming of IKEA to Ukrainian market a good sign for international brands
If that's not suffering, then what it is?
>>
No. 8667
>>8635
>If that's not suffering, then what it is?
I hope pootine after it will ban IKEA
>>
No. 8677
521 kB, 1920 × 921
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/12/hurricane-florence-storm-surge-deadly-threat-carolinas-coast-deaths-flooding-drowning/1280917002/
You know what I'm having serious problems trying to figure out, didn't the Carolinas already get rekt and we made jokes about God punishing South Carolina? Didn't that already happen this year or last year or am I imagining it?

Also
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45497617
You may have been born way too late for exploration by sea and way too young for s-p-a-c-e but you were born just in time to explore cyberspace and live in a cyberpunk dystopia.
>The European Parliament has passed a resolution calling for an international ban on so-called killer robots.

>It aims to pre-empt the development and use of autonomous weapon systems that can kill without human intervention. Last month, talks at the UN failed to reach consensus on the issue, with some countries saying the benefits of autonomous weapons should be explored.

>And some MEPs were concerned legislation could limit scientific progress of artificial intelligence while others said it could become a security issue if some countries allowed such weapons while others did not.

>"I know this might look like a debate about some distant future or about science fiction. It's not," said Federica Mogherini, the EU chief of foreign and security policy during the debate at the European Parliament.

>'Arms race'
>"Autonomous weapons systems must be banned internationally," said Bodil Valero, security policy spokeswoman for the EU Parliament's Greens/EFA Group.

>"The power to decide over life and death should never be taken out of human hands and given to machines."

>"It's not too late to change course. A ban on fully autonomous weapons systems could prevent some truly dystopian scenarios, like a new high-tech arms race between world superpowers which would cause autonomous weapons to proliferate widely," he added.

>But some countries - including Israel, Russia, South Korea and the US - opposed new measures at the August meeting, saying that they wanted to explore potential "advantages" from autonomous weapons systems.
So what new digital ruins did you explore today ernsts? Find any cool bbs or geocities sites? Anything on tor net? Anyone spoof your garage door opening and hack into your home or an appliance? Tell us your cyberpunk dystopian troubles.
>>
No. 8712
134 kB, 960 × 430
471 kB, 1024 × 653
"Funny" Berlin news

Some criminal Arab got shot by other clan of criminal Arabs. Hundreds of filthy genetic trash come to his funeral and worship him as if he was some sort of saint. State police acts officially as security for the scum.

https://player.fm/series/berlin-briefing/ep-13092018-police-corruption-nidal-r-funeral-escape-car-smoking-regulations

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/september-2018-berlin-police-secure-the-area-at-the-funeral-news-photo/1032663354
>>
No. 8756 Kontra
>>8712
State police acts to prevent further spiraling down of this idiotic power play.

It's not often that I would defend the actions of any police, but you are just being a teenager right now. It's not EC-tier, get yourself together.
>>
No. 8787
>>8756
They could have banned crowd attendance outside of closest family members, or even better sent the dead body back to Lebanon, but having the state police acting as security for organized crime syndicate is rather pathetic.
>>
No. 8788
>>8787
Is there any legal basis for limiting the number of people attending a funeral?
>>
No. 8791
>>8788

They can ban anyone at any time from any given place if they assume the person in question is a threat to public safety and order.
>>
No. 8943
>>8791
Allowing folks like that to attend a funeral and watching it closely is much better police tactics.
Banning them would make them go full riot mode.
>>
No. 9033
https://www.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/Few-details-fuel-speculation-about-US-13230115.php
Well that's mysterious. My best guess would be that they scoped out a spy satellite they weren't supposed to see. Another very interesting turn of events was this https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/677720/Strava-fitness-tracker-online-heat-map-US-soldiers-military-Afghanistan
ironically enough for once the all pervasive spy technology of the new digital era has been used against them as well.
>>
No. 9166
>>8943
>Banning them would make them go full riot mode.

Which would give enough reason to deport anyone who takes part in the rioting. The "fight" against the clans would be over very soon and it would be won by the state easily. If only there was a real will to fight this "war" on the side of the Berlin administration.
>>
No. 9167
>>9166
You say that as though riots are clean. There'll be a lot of property damaged and bystanders injured which can be prevented by stationing a few coppers at a church. Frankly the latter is the cheaper, cleaner and most elegant solution to that situation.
>>
No. 9169
>>9167
Only that you don't get rid of the criminal Arabs.
>>
No. 9255
91 kB, 200 × 200
>>
No. 9284 Kontra
>>8712
The guy kiled wasn't an arab, afaik he was a gemran-cuban or something like that. In the end it doesn't really matter, it's just "one of them killed one of us". And as cynical and cold as it might sound, those people are completely right about the fact that not a single one of the people murdered and raped by refugees would have had to suffer without them being let into this country. Shit is really getting hilarious on the Deutschland, especially since Maaßen, the Verfassungsschutz-Chef got kicked out by Merkel after suspecting the deliberate spreading of misleading informations through a video uploaded by someone who literally had Antifa in his youtube name. It wouldn't be of big relevance if Merkel wouldN't have said that there would have been a Hetzjagd/Manhunt against migrants in Chemnitz, basing of one video where some skinhead dude is running to a migrant or refugee. I don't even give a shit anymore what's right or wrong, I just want the uprising against those arrogant pricks in our government.
>>
No. 9331
37 kB, 1050 × 605
64 kB, 380 × 266
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/17/politics/syrian-regime-shoots-down-russian-plane/index.html

Syria accidentaly shoot our plane because thought it was Israel attack and Russia blame Israel for that Crash
Funny story I guess you already aware about that, but I want just point

>fucking 2018
>fucking turboprop Ил-20
>shooted by C-200

Is this flashback from 1960s?
>>
No. 9338 Kontra
>>9284
>gemran-cuban
We were not talking about Chemnitz and protesting Ossi hordes, m8.
>>
No. 9416
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkckYLBCNfI

It's not news, but it's related to Trump's trade war on China. They explain how international postal tariffs that benefit non-developed countries are being used by China to take over murkan market.
>>
No. 9420
>>
No. 9458
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tariff-china-trade-war-consumer-goods-2018-9

Basically:
1- Trump runs out of chinese materials and components to put tariffs on, so he decides to put tariffs on end consumer goods

2- but he knows that this will make murkyan consumers unhappy, since it will hit them very directly and clearly, so he avoids tariffing stuff like iphones, and also puts tariffs only at 10% instead of the usual 25%, claiming that he's actually putting it at 10% in order to invite china to the negotiating table, saying that if they retaliate the 10% by putting tarifs on murkan exports to China, he'll raise the tariffs to 25%

3- less than one day later China calls out the bluff and puts tariffs on a bunch of murkan product at 10%, saying that they'll raise it to 25% if murkya also raises theirs to 25%

waiting for Trump's next move.
>>
No. 9459
90 kB, 800 × 1151
https://nyti.ms/2NsEt4R?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Dr. Cavalli-Sforza was a pioneer in using genetic information to help trace human evolution, history and patterns of migration. The founder of a field that he called genetic geography, he was renowned for synthesizing information from diverse disciplines — genetics, archaeology, linguistics, anthropology and statistics — to explain how human populations fanned out over the earth from their original home in Africa.

David Reich, a professor of genetics at Harvard Medical School, said in an interview that Dr. Cavalli-Sforza was the first scientist to predict that there would be “enough information in genes to determine where people came from in the world and who they’re most closely related to.”

By the way if you're interested I recommend checking out a recent episode of the geneticists Spencer Wells and Razib Khan's podcast, The Insight, which is dedicated to discussing the life and legacy of Cavalli-Sforza.
>>
No. 9461
1,1 MB, 1 page
47 kB, 720 × 450
I thought an article in last weeks Private Eye might be worth a look regarding Ukraine. The idea of Ukraine's future president having his campaign bankrolled by skimming from African projects and shady Cypriot arms dealers...I mean it's supposed to work the other way, surely?

Also:
>Russia turns the eastern quarter of your country into a warzone and you lose one of your most lucrative regions to illegal annexation
>Economy tanks, people getting carbombed everywhere and constant ko-ko-ko spam for over 4 years
>End up back in the Russian orbit anyway

Do Ukrainians just want to suffer?
>>
No. 9464 Kontra
>>9461
Ex-USSR recent history is a chain of suffer, one way or another.
>>
No. 9470
>>9461
Ukraine's future president is either Tymoshenko, literal Ukrainian speaking pro-Western populist from Western Ukraine, Poroshenko, current president and the guy who was pro-Western before 2014 and whose business was harassed in Russia for his political views by the Russian government, or Vakarchuk, very popular Ukrainian singer from Western Ukraine, son of former minister of education of Ukraine. Little is known about Vakarchuk's political views, but he speaks only Ukrainian and never expressed views supporting Russia. Also, there are two smaller candidates: Gritsenko and Lyashko, both of them are real Russophobes and wouldn't never support Russia.
Boiko ain't popular and he doesn't has a chance of winning popular vote. The first rule of Ukrainian politics in 2018: pro-Russian candidate can't become president. A third part of Ukrainians still like Russia and only 10% of total population vote for the single pro-Russian party in this country.

>End up back in the Russian orbit anyway
Ukraine and Moldova are constantly reducing the share of Russian imports/exports and increase the EU's share in their economies. Russia can't properly influence Ukrainian politics without military action if its trade with us is in decline and they're international pariah.
>>
No. 9473
48 kB, 593 × 403
>>9470
>is in decline and they're international pariah.
And you think you better than us? Come Taras, sit with me in petrol soaked mud and snow and hatings world together. Nobody escapes the bucket from us.

>Russia can't properly influence Ukrainian politics without military action
Challenge accepted
>>
No. 9501
107 kB, 601 × 840
Some irrelevant news from irrelevant Ex-Yu countries:
Mighty Slovenian butt explosion happened after Junker declared the EU's stance on the Slovenian-Croatian border dispute(*) as neutral. I thought someone might put the caricature to good use, for trolling purposes or whatever.

(*)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia%E2%80%93Slovenia_border_disputes#Resolution_of_the_dispute_by_an_arbitration_tribunal
>>
No. 9546
228 kB, 480 × 360
Not really news since it happened a while ago but somehow i completely missed it and just found out right now after i wanted to check after Terry Davis and see what he's up tp.

Terry A. Davis came under a train and died a month ago.

>A man killed by a train in The Dalles in mid-August had a Youtube following and was a “minor celebrity” in the computer world for doing the Herculean task of writing his own operating system, a fan said...

http://www.thedalleschronicle.com/news/2018/sep/07/man-killed-train-had-tech-following/

His last video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH41gGBVpkE
>>
No. 9547
>>9546
probably faked death. he got captured by the cia n1ggers.
>>
No. 9556
174 kB, 600 × 450
>>9546
>it happened a while ago but somehow i completely missed it
There was some confusion when the first reports came out-people not sure if it was a hoax or whatever. It wasn't. It was just a sad story.
>>
No. 9557
>>9556
>>9546

I noticed dozens of threads about him on /g/ during the last few weeks but didn't look into it because I always found the hype about him and his OS pretty silly.

Is it known if it was an accident or a suicide?
>>
No. 9558
97 kB, 878 × 1047
>>9557
The only news sources i found don't talk about suicide but i guess it's not unlikely.
>>
No. 9559
>>9557
>According to a police report on the death, on the evening of Aug. 11, Davis was walking along the railroad tracks, with his back to an oncoming train, when he turned and faced the train before it hit him. The train engineer considered it a suicide, according to the report

The full text of the The Dalles Chronicle article can be read here:
https://pastebin.com/iwtSwWaF
>>
No. 9561
>>9558
Yeah, especially with his mental illness. From the article:
>He posted one last video, a few hours before his death. In retrospect, that video may have hinted at depression, the psychologist said.
“He said something about it must’ve been a shock to these people in The Dalles that such a vile person was among them and that he learned how to purify himself. “The last 20 seconds of the video I think are interesting because he leaned back and he said ‘It’s good to be king. Well, maybe. Sometimes I think I’m just a weird little person walking back and forth.'"...
>>
No. 9610
Russian government issues passports with similiar numbers to its GRU officers and the Sailsbury "Dindu nuffin" couple is from GRU. A story about hilarious incompetence of Russian intelligence.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/20/skripal-suspects-confirmed-gru-operatives-prior-european-operations-disclosed/

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/09/23/yeah-it-s-the-gru-hq-so-what
>>
No. 9690
News in PT only
https://br18.com.br/novo-vai-expulsar-filiado-radical/

A BR candidate from a party with libertarian inclinations proposed that farmers should use war tanks to protect themselves from land invaders (left leaning movements who advocate for the re-distribution of farm lands by invading farms).

He was expelled from the party.
>>
No. 9692
>>9690
Le ancap picardia faec
>>
No. 9699
47 kB, 248 × 310
>>9690
Brazil is quite possibly one of the greatest countries in the world. Its insanity will be missed.
>>
No. 9701
35 kB, 480 × 480
>>9690
Tbh, why shouldn't you use whatever means you have available to defend your shit? If you happen to have heavy armour lying in the shed, then go nuts.
>>
No. 9719
EU, Russia and China agree special payments system for Iran

https://www.ft.com/content/4aa03678-c0a7-11e8-8d55-54197280d3f7

So much winning! #MAGA!
>>
No. 9721
4,6 MB, 640 × 360, 1:22
>>9719
Link hits a paywall
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/09/eu-iran-agree-payment-system-skirt-sanctions-180925050920569.html

But oh you better believe our media and government are crying like bitches over this
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-eu/as-u-s-sanctions-near-europe-fails-to-protect-iran-deal-idUSKCN1M41UO
Most of what our government is doing now more than ever is pretty much being a puppet of AIPAC. I have never seen anybody put Israel first ahead of US interests before to the pathological degree Trump does it. With any luck we can get rid of Trump sooner than later before he does seriously catastrophic damage to our standing in the world.
>>
No. 9814
48 kB, 432 × 413
https://nypost.com/2018/09/26/show-sparks-outrage-after-warning-chinese-tourists-not-to-eat-dogs/
>“Swedes hate racism — as long as we’re not talking about the Chinese and the Russians, of course,” he said. “No politically correct campaign in the world can eliminate the Swedes’ hatred for the Russians. And that is probably because most of Russia is in Asia. They are almost Chinese.”
>>
No. 9815
79 kB, 586 × 558
>>9814
lol, still butthurt about Ostsee shore
>>
No. 9901
not really news but an interesting read about datafication and an uncanny vision of biopolitics that could be counducted by corporations in the future.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/09/amazon-is-invading-your-home-with-micro-convenience/571015/
>>
No. 9934
39 kB, 800 × 450
Today was heavy clashes with police in barselona with catalonia separatism demonstration. Looks like this problem still not resolved.
>>
No. 9936
>>9901
>Yesterday, Amazon announced a new line of Alexa-enabled products, one of which provides a solution. It’s a cheap analog wall clock. The minute markers can illuminate to show the progress of timers set via Alexa. That’s it. On the surface, it seems like a preposterous, excessive solution to a problem that doesn’t even really exist. But for 30 bucks, it’s tempting.
This would probably upset me more if I didn't already lose my last shred of faith in humanity or respect for them. Because buying a cheaper clock to begin with is unthinkable apparently.
>rest of this article
I do however look forward to the day when I can watch hackers torment the shit out of people like this.
>>
No. 9939
>>9936
And there I thought that common items eventually become so ubiquitous, easy to manufacture, and reliable, that the product's concept becomes immune to price point milking, essentially equalizing all social classes for this particular commodity. Clocks for everyone! Now everyone can tell the time.

But I got proven wrong again. When a niche is filled, le free market simply manufactures another niche to peddle shit, even if it doesn't make any sense.

Do you guys think we're just luddites and internet connected paperweights, scissors, digital socks, etc. are the future?
>>
No. 9941
>>9934
The problem is Spain.
>>
No. 9942
>>9939
>When a niche is filled, le free market simply manufactures another niche to peddle shit

Of course. How else could companies create revenue growth/sales increases.
>>
No. 9943
>>9939
The problem is the coupling of a shitty economic system with basic human nature. Consumer Capitalism is by far the worst economic system ever devised.

>Do you guys think we're just luddites and internet connected paperweights, scissors, digital socks, etc. are the future?
No, it's the simple issue of people with a massive economic stake in the market having enough money to try and manufacture non-existent demand. A lesser degree of this is accessorizing, where if you buy the Barbie, then there's a million useless fucking plastic things that go along with it, or you get one medication prescribed and that drug causes so many side effects you get prescribed two more drugs, with each causing their own side effects. This is one reason why older people end up with literally a dozen different drugs they're taking.

A big problem with the system is that it's not concerned with anything but making more money for the sake of having money, regardless of harm to anything else including regardless of long term economic self harm. It's a dead end system and they'll build new societies on the ruins of our dead civilization like the mounds of Cahokia.

The problem is they spend exorbitant sums of money to try and make new shit things you don't need and never will need and for some strange reason people keep buying them. One family members does this and it irritates the everloving fucking shit out of me. Come to think of it, this is usually a problem with females having easy credit and lots of cash, hoarding useless shit nobody has any use for.

A good example is the sort of infomercial channels in the US. You know this half hour long commercials with people like Billy Mayes? Those are for the halfway successful products. There are tons of patents and shows for cheap plastic crap that nobody has any use for. In these cases the people hawking their products hope to use the media and advertising to generate a currently non-existent demand for a product whose supply they control.

Naturally, Amazon is trying to do this shit by tying Amazon corporate crap into every single thing where you don't need it, like a coffee maker or fridge, and then try and convince you that you needed it all along.
>>
No. 9947
127 kB, 573 × 800
>Amazon

I consider that company not acceptable and refuse to use any of their services and so should do everybody.

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2018/09/amazon_has_patented_a_system_that_would_put_workers_in_a_cage_on
>>
No. 9949
>>9947
This is a much more poignant thing than anything anyone could've written in science fiction. It also shows the depths to which all the idiot utopian dreamers were wrong about a slave robot force liberating mankind.
>>
No. 9951
>>9947
>>9949
I'm more than a little skeptical of why these machines made the news. This is a small forklift for lifting heavy boxes (which saves workers backs etc.) and like all heavy lifting machinery is required by law to have a protective cage for the user.

There is also the little detail that diving into patents doesn't mean the technology will ever be used. It makes for an easy story I guess.
>>
No. 9952
>>9951
Actually patents are a great place to look tbh. I knew about microwave weapons many many years ago because people were finding all the patents for them. When discussed, people derided it as some kind of insane conspiracy theory. Meanwhile in 2018 the US government is now complaining that microwave weapons are being used against US diplomats.
>>
No. 10009 Kontra
>>9952
I'm unsure as to how this disqualifies my point. Do you just want a biscuit or something?
>>
No. 10050
This whole article is like some kind of set piece
https://longreads.com/2018/10/01/a-visit-to-opioid-country/
It sounded like he talked about nothing, but somehow this perfectly encapsulated life in America in 2014-2018.
>>
No. 10121
62 kB, 590 × 461
41 kB, 450 × 450
[beginning to worry]
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/indonesia-volcano-earthquake-palu-latest-death-toll-mount-soputan-a8565971.html

Indonesia has had a lot of tectonic activity over the last decade, although, it's also Indonesia. Still though.

This also has made me realize, doesn't America have a deadhand switch to its nuclear arsenal? Isn't the way that's supposed to work is if the system detects sufficient seismic activity from nuclear detonations that it retaliates automatically? What if there's a series of volcanic eruptions?
>>
No. 10128
>>10121
I know you're americans and all, but i still think you're smart enough to have some precautions to avoid starting a nuclear holocaust.
>>
No. 10134
79 kB, 1347 × 536
>>10128
>but i still think you're smart enough to have some precautions to avoid starting a nuclear holocaust.
Oh sweet summer child, did you really just imply that American leadership is sane, intelligent, competent or decent? Frankly it's amazing we haven't accidentally dropped nukes on ourselves.
>>
No. 10140
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45708671

Bolivia wanted Chile to gib clay to them in their coast so that Bolivia could have access to the ocean again, but the court ruled overwhelmingly in favour of Chile saying that Chile doesn't even have the obligation to talk about this issue with Bolivia.
>>
No. 10141
>>10140
Why doesn't Bolivia just invade them? They also have a massively long border.
>>
No. 10142
198 kB, 594 × 513
>>10134
You made me use wikipedia until I reached the Stargate project, which is also called GONDOLA WISH
>>
No. 10143
>>10142
I am pretty sure at this point that one of the true skills of an Illuminate is to bend and reshape reality. I'd likely put a lot of stuff in works of fiction, however it occurred to me I don't actually know the legal limits of doing things like putting detailed instructions on making bombs or methamphetamine in a novel. I am also wondering if there's a way to sort of "overload reality's servers" so to speak. It is also conceivable that with the internet humanity might just start becoming its own reference point.
>>
No. 10165
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCDFNRA-Wo

Does anyone have a spare leader we could borrow for a few years? It's gotten so bad now that (god-awful) leadership wannabes are actively harming our diplomatic relations.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/03/theresa-mays-government-is-steering-britain-toward-an-iceberg-tories-conservatives-michael-gove-boris-johnson-jeremy-hunt/

>>10121
Wasn't the whole Yellowstone thing ruled to be a bit exaggerated?

>doesn't America have a deadhand switch to its nuclear arsenal?

No, that was shut down in 1991. Allegedly the Russian's still operate the Soviet system but I find that a little dubious given territorial changes and financial environment since the end of the Cold War.

At any rate the deadhead switches within both the USSR and USA were by design only activated in times of international crisis. So if a conventional war broke out in Europe the Soviet leadership could turn it on affording some opportunity to give pause to unverified readings before pushing the button. Then the machine still had certain oversight functions like monitoring communication links to central command before delegating final launch authority to hardened bunkers. It's horribly misunderstood imo given the machine made nuclear war less likely by removing the anxiety of decapitation strike.

At least it's better than the entire British nuclear arsenal being fired off if BBC Radio Four goes off air. Think about that when the Remembrance Day moment of silence drags on this year posing the real possibility that Moscow could end up glowing in the dark for it.

>>10140
It's an irritating case to read about because Chile is being held to account for essentially being a bro. I'm glad the court ruled as it did because it risked upending the idea of states having open-ended chats and assessing the feasibility of solutions.

Morales also gave zero fucks when the OAS told him to reopen dialogue with Chile but then relies on OAS treaty for his submission that demands peaceful resolution of disputes. Are the Andean peoples always this insufferable?

The judgement is a pretty easy read if anyone is interested:
https://www.icj-cij.org/files/case-related/153/153-20181001-SUM-01-00-EN.pdf

>>10141
>American solutions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._United_States
>>
No. 10260
3,3 MB, 1280 × 720, 0:50
>>10165
> Does anyone have a spare leader we could borrow for a few years?
>>
No. 10287
138 kB, 800 × 603
>>10165
You voted for Tories again. There's nothing I can do to help you.
>>
No. 10294
3,7 MB, 1280 × 720, 0:31
117 kB, 604 × 453
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/seven-russian-intelligence-officers-indicted-on-conspiracy-charges/ar-BBNVjYp?OCID=ansmsnnews11
>Officials with the Justice Department's national security division and the FBI announced the charges Thursday morning, shortly after officials in the United Kingdom and the Netherlands revealed a secret joint intelligence mission that thwarted a Russian intelligence operation targeting a global chemical weapons watchdog at The Hague, called the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

>U.S. officials allege that some of the Russians caught in the operation at The Hague participated in a global hacking campaign against individuals and organizations in the U.S., Canada and Europe. These include attacks on Olympic organizations, including the World Anti-Doping Agency and the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, as well as attacks on a U.S. nuclear power company in Pennsylvania.
My fucking sides
>>
No. 10315
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

Told you so. I mean this one was kind of a no brainer. I am simply astounded by how incredibly stupid and overall incompetent our government really is. Anybody with the least bit of common sense would be eschewing all electronics from China, not installing fucking government and military servers on them.
>>
No. 10355
>>10315
Chinese chips on foxconn motherboards were known for several years atleast. Dell even had upgrades to disable them. And botnet is overtaken by Microsoft now. Honestly any country involved in production does this. And China does this the rude way
Hardly doubt this is somehow big news for anyone in industry.
>>
No. 10404
>>10315
Sadly not available in english, but you might be lucky with deepl or google translate:
https://www.heise.de/security/meldung/Winzige-Spionage-Chips-aus-China-Was-dafuer-spricht-und-was-dagegen-4182159.html

So far the best (eg. most neutral) article I've found about the topic.
>>
No. 10708
https://gizmodo.com/los-angeles-is-dealing-with-an-outbreak-of-flea-borne-t-1829603536

Just remember that I already told you all, the slow collapse of America is coming. Now we have fucking typhus outbreaks. I would estimate we haven't got more than a decade before our shitty infrastructure starts collapsing and making us third world. Already the usual yearly house explosions aren't taking out one house but entire blocks.

https://gizmodo.com/los-angeles-is-dealing-with-an-outbreak-of-flea-borne-t-1829603536

In other news and bad news
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/09/hubble-space-telescope-fails-gyroscope

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/jagged-ice-spikes-cover-jupiter's-moon-europa-study-suggests/ar-BBO6B1u?OCID=ansmsnnews11
>>
No. 10712
>>10708
>collapse of America is coming

It's not only America.
>>
No. 10798
Well fugg
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/watchdog-nearly-all-new-us-weapons-systems-vulnerable-to-cyber-attacks/ar-BBOakv4
Not that this is surprising to me, especially since the military hardware is all using Chinese parts. I'm pretty sure the Chinese could simply switch off the bulk of our military at this point. Never underestimate the incompetence of America's leadership.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181008183344.htm
Deus Ex soon
>>
No. 10805
>>10798
>weapon systems used commercial or open source software, but did not change the default password when the software was installed, which allowed test teams to look up the password on the internet and gain administrator privileges.
I have no words for this level of stupidity...no wait. I actually do: Boomers.
>>
No. 10807
5,9 MB, 1280 × 720, 0:58
458 kB, 642 × 482
Explosion and fire at a Russian owned petroleum refinery in Bosanski Brod, a Bosnian (Republika Srpska) town at the border to Croatia.

https://www.rferl.org/a/29534696.html
>>
No. 10812
>>10807
ebin :-DDD thanks for the entertainment Mordor
>>
No. 10823
http://time.com/5395131/college-bias-kavanaugh-diversity/

Article about the radicalization of murkyan universities. It's interesting because it has links to many other articles about the issue.
>>
No. 10827 Kontra
hurr durr I hate another portion of "Teacher fucked a young boy" news, so I ain't giving any link
I feel butthurted
>>
No. 10858
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45812419

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/ethnic-cleansing-makes-a-comeback--in-china/2018/08/02/55f73fa2-9691-11e8-810c-5fa705927d54_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.949ffecab380
China made death camps for their muslims official. They also forcing muslims to eat pig meat, watch goverment tv, not use arabian names for their childrens, forbidden their religion, destroyibg religion buildings etc. etc.

What do you think about this? I have very mixed opinion on this question and interested if you share your opinion.
>>
No. 10859
>>10858
It's massively fucked up and this kind of shit is precisely why they've been having problems with the Chinese and Turkic muslims for as long as they have been. A little bit of mutual respect goes a long way to solving these kinds of issues. Chinese policy towards their non-Han groups (and similar policies elsewhere in the world) do nothing but forge the 'us vs them' scenario that leads to the bloodshed and bullshit in the first place.
>>
No. 10861
>>10858
When I was in Shenzhen they ran videos on subway cars on what do in case of a terror attack. It was mildly disturbing that they chose to use some gook cartoons for the purpose.

No other onions other than I'll be pretty sad if the Hui people are gone.
>>
No. 10881
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/tom-peterkin-the-english-tories-who-care-more-about-brexit-than-union-1-4813350
Hahaha I'm going to laugh so hard if Brexit ends up killing the union.
Gott strafe England.
>>
No. 10884
>>10881
Why would you love at the potential suffering of so many people? Are you a bad person?
>>
No. 10889
>>10884
It was a joke mate. Although I do sincerely hope NI splits from the union and unites with Ireland.
>>
No. 10891
>>10861
Came back from Shanghi, you have to submit to 3-D face scan to stay in a hotel if Chinese.
Option to pay in McShit by 3-D face scan as well.
I enjoy the messages about terrorism in cartoon form, could you do it in any other way.
>>10881
You want to break up the Union let the English vote on Scottish independence, they would get kicked out.
>>10889
Prepare for White terrorism, much more effective than sand nigger terroism if this happens.
British soldiers are still murdered yearly in Ireland, it is so common it is not reported heavily.
>>
No. 10892
>>10891
>Came back from Shanghi, you have to submit to 3-D face scan to stay in a hotel if Chinese.

Very macabre.
The cartoons simply made it feel even more dystopic, I'd figure they'd be able to simply get the "stay calm, alert authorities and run away" without cartoons of jihadis lighting up the subway.
>>
No. 10899
86 kB, 270 × 300, 0:02
>>10884
They live in Britain. They suffer anyway.
That'd be the meme answer
>>
No. 10936
>>10891
The more I learn about China the more I want to bomb them and think MaCarthur was right https://www.quora.com/What-parts-of-China-did-MacArthur-want-to-atom-bomb-Did-the-US-public-know-or-support-this-plan
>>
No. 10961
>>10936
You would be shocked by how lazy Chinese retail is.
For example walk into store, all 8 employees are playing on their phone or watching a Chinese sopa opera.
Go to Tourism Information in a tourist place, in a 1st tier city, all playing on the their phones.
Chinglist told me English was finished, I told her come on we got a good few years left, joge was not accepted, I re-worded this into they had no English language information and why would the Chinese go to a Tourism office.
They are usually herded in big tour groups, which force them into bus trips, where they have to stay 3-4 hours in certain malls to buy stuff or visit certain restaurants.
Meanwhile 200k people(made up figure), cross the border into Hong Kong to buy ......
Cosmetics, shampoo, babby milk, chocolate, clothes, every day.
The lack of a sales tax is not the reason, the reason is there is no trust in Chinese products and branded products in China have a high chance to be counterfeit.
Go to certain areas, you will see the traders or tourists pack a suitcase on the floor, throw rubbish on the ground and fill case with skin whitening products, shampoo, obligatory 4 cases of babby milk powder and other mundane shit.

You have to stop and ask why have they travelled at least two hours to buy shampoo, answer because they will sell fake shit which will kill you in China.

Told not to buy milk while in China because you will at best get kidney stones, worst die.
Young boys especially just get taught to pee in public, a busy side walk, anywhere, just pee straight on the ground no modesty.
Did see a pro-dad, use his daughter as a kind of squirt gun to pee in the men's urinal in HK, that was a first and generally impressed.
Toilets in China are hell, not really.
Squat toilets, shit everywhere, no toilet paper because you might steal it.
Finding a toilet and have paper and handwash is literally my biggest brolem in China, apart fom outside major areas where they only sell 3-4% beer.
Everything is ali-pay, you pay with your phone which needs wi-fi, even for a 2$ hotdog.
Shanghai at least has some beautiful women, HK's average must be 40+ and the women are terrible, ugliest schoolgirls by a country mile, hairy legs, picking nose on the metro, I think the lesbian population is quite high as well because they are all gold diggers.
>>
No. 10962
>>10961
average age must be 40+
>>
No. 10964
39 kB, 589 × 403
>>10961
>use his daughter as a kind of squirt gun to pee in the men's urinal in HK
H-hot
>>
No. 11028
New Navalny's video with English subtitlles about rich and extravagant managers of Russian state corporations. It's just a coincidence that they were friends of Putin in the 90s, we all know that Russian state apparatus is an effective meritocratic system and not an excellent example of crony capitalism. So much for the savior of the white race, with saviors like that I wonder why whites are not extinct yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl7i79_UyU4
>>
No. 11035
>>11028
I honestly don't know where that retarded idea even came from, except maybe these are children of single moms looking for a father figure which is why they universally support every single shitty authoritarian regime.
>>
No. 11041
731 kB, 709 × 704
>>11035
For some unknown reason a lot of people on imageboards think that Russia is
  1. a religious country, which is not true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country
Russians themselves widely consider the orthodox church corrupt, especially a lot of younger people dislike the church. I think that Russian orthodox church is indeed more corrupt than the protestant or catholic one, the Moscow patriarch is quite a controversial figure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Kirill_of_Moscow
When sexually frustrated /pol/tards talk about religion and religious population, they primarily care not about faith in Christ, tolerance or love, but about racism, religious discrimination (primarily discrimination of Islam) and ability to get a virgin gf. You can google average age of virginity lose and everywhere Russian numbers would be placed among "degenerate" Western countries.
2. country that persecutes gays. Well, it's true, they won't throw you in jail but propaganda of gay relationships is forbidden and overall there's a negative attitude towards homosexuality in Russian society.
3. country that persecutes ethnic and religious minorities. Totally untrue, that's one of the most retarded things that I have heard on English imageboards, only totally clueless man that knows nothing about Russian domestic policy would hold that opinion. Even Putin is not an ethnic Russian nationalist, in words or in deeds, the Russian government encourages migration from Central Asia and subsidizes the economically backward ethnic republics, especially enormously huge subsidies despite the small population gets Chechnya.

Many Western politicians whom I read believe that Russia is trying to destabilize and divide Western societies by supporting the foreign ethnic nationalists, while strictly adhering to a tolerant religious and ethnic policy at home, thus reducing social tension and speeding up assimilation and creation of civic single Russian identity.
>>
No. 11042
>>11041
Stop bullying Russia, you satanic Banderist.

But yes,I agree with you that painting Russia as a bastion of traditional society, let alone "the white race" is absurd.
>>
No. 11043
>>11035
It's hardly a new or unusual development and I don't know why you need to throw in all this psychoanalysis to make it work. In ignorance people project the features they want to see from American idealism of Europe to the once popularity of Trump in China. This is especially telling in Americo-Russian relations as translating Russian to English is a bitch which caused Khrushchev to threaten war and Putin to call Trump a genius.

So what I'm basically saying is we should drown all non-English speakers and then use our newfound cohesion to build a space elevator in Babel.
>>
No. 11044
>>
No. 11045
>>11044
Forty seconds in and this person in the video is already wrong. The Russian Autocephaly wasn't self proclaimed. It was declared Autocephalous by the Ecumencial Patriarch of Constantinople.
Additionaly, it'd really be a lot nicer if you stop simply pasting in links without any form of explanation.
>>
No. 11061
>>11035
>insecure manchildren looking for a father figure which is why they universally support every single shitty authoritarian regime

poltards in a nutshell
>>
No. 11067
article in PT only
https://observador.pt/2018/10/05/conselheiro-afirma-que-80-da-comunidade-portuguesa-vai-votar-em-bolsonaro/

This is not a poll, it's just the impressions of president of the "permanent council of portuguese communities abroad".
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No. 11069
162 kB, 640 × 857
>>11067
>À semelhança de Flávio Martins, também Fernando Haddad, candidato do Partido dos Trabalhadores (PT) à Presidência brasileira, traçou comparações entre Bolsonaro e o antigo governo ditatorial português do Estado Novo.

>“Acho que os portugueses que conhecem o salazarismo e sabem tudo de ruim que o fascismo traz para o mundo, deviam ficar preocupados com a eleição no Brasil”, disse Haddad à imprensa portuguesa, durante um ato de campanha no Rio de Janeiro.

I never thought the man would be brought up during the Brazillian election. Let the dead rest.
>>
No. 11071
>>11069
>Let the dead rest.
If someone goes into politics, especially state-level politics then tbh they renounce their right to that kind of thing. Politicians, especially ruling ones, should fit into that system as a kind of public property. If you want privacy, then don't get all up in the public eye so prominently.
t. Thomas Jefferson
>>
No. 11077
>>11071
It isn't a question of privacy, or that one's life can't be looked into.
But to have a person reduced to a corpse that is flown as a banner, in order to be shoehorned into an entirely seperate political argument is just revolting.
>>
No. 11080
>>11077
Meh. You want to run a country a certain way to the point where there's apparently a term for it (they used Salazarismo which from what I know of Latin languages is more like Salazarism than Salazar the man) then you can expect to be namedropped when people start using something seen as similar (even if it's not, can't confirm how far they're reaching if at all).
>>
No. 11105
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russian-orthodox-church-breaks-with-constantinople-in-row-over-ukraine-63196
Ukraine finally breaks away from the Russian Orthodox Church and gets its own independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the Russian church cuts its ties with Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople in retaliation for approval and legitimization of the Ukrainian church.

Yushchenko, former Ukrainian president, once tried and failed to secure approval from Istanbul of the independent Ukrainian church in 00s. Who knows how everything would turn out if not for the Russian invasion.
>>
No. 11111
1,4 MB, 957 × 1332
>>11105
>the Russian church cuts its ties with Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople in retaliation for approval and legitimization of the Ukrainian church.
Sad. Russia, please.
Thoughts on the new foundations of the Ukrainian state? Army, Language and Religion.
>>
No. 11115
>>11111
People are much more radical and nationalistic now, Ukrainian government tries to scapegoat the Russians as hard as possible, mainly because it allows the Ukrainian elites to slow down the reforms that hurt the oligarchs' interests. Although the Donbas war has ceased to be intense and there are only 1-10 dead per week now, Ukrainian TV channels still tell the news from the frontline and talk about dead Ukrainian soldiers. I'm afraid that even if the country will successfully westernize and carry out economic reforms, there eventually could be Poland, Hungary, Russia-like political backlash with authoritarian right-wing nationalistic parties corrupting the country.

Anyway, before 2014 the only Ukrainians who really disliked Russians were from Western, most nationalistic regions of the country. It was mostly Holodomor that corrupted our current relations, neverthless a lot of Ukrainians don't think that Russians were at fault there. And now the Ukrainian communist party (10% of the parliament in 2012) is banned, communist symbolic is banned, monuments to Lenin and other communists are destroyed, cities, streets and villages renamed, figters of UPA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army ) are officialy fighters for Ukrainian independence. Because of the events of 2014, there is an obvious confrontation that cements Russia as a natural enemy of Ukraine, an external enemy that unites people of both countries.
Ukrainian identity and the moderates has long needed aggression from Russia, which would prove that the Russians cannot be trusted.
>>
No. 11118
44 kB, 625 × 352
Paul Allen is dead
>>
No. 11129
>>11118
Died of cancer. Probably got that from Bill, like the rest of us.
I'm still mourning the loss of Dennis Ritchie, which everyone forgot because some asshole with a turtleneck died in the same week.
>>
No. 11146
>>11105
>Russian church cuts its ties with Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople

So Russian church is now a pariah church?
Seems pretty much self destructive.
>>
No. 11147
>>11146
Nothing new.
Russian church got butthurted broke ties with Constantinople when Estonian church was gaining autocephaly.
>>
No. 11150
>>11147
Oh, so it's just playing the offended prima donna for a while and then crawling back to the Constantinople Patriarchate silently later? Well, why not. By actions like these at least nobody gets hurt.
>>
No. 11167
Only things that make me this church things EPIN is how they sounds

SOMEBODY BROKEN AGREEMENT THAT 700 YEARS OLD!
MEETING OF WHOLE UNIVERSE REJECTED ANOTHER TIME SINCE LAST 1000 YEARS!
THIS CASE WILL BROKE NATURAL ORDER OF HOW WE FOLLOW ETHERNAL GOD!

  • and things like this. This feels like some sort of High Fantasy or Warhammer. In reality this is all lame thing nobody cares about tbh.
>>
No. 11179 Kontra
atlanta has come to the new level!
https://ria.ru/analytics/20181017/1530809164.html
News title: Man-meme called USA to save Poland from Russian-German loop
>>
No. 11201
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/10/17/meet-vladislav-roslyakov-the-man-behind-crimea-s-college-massacre
On October 17, a student at Kerch Polytechnic College in eastern Crimea murdered more than a dozen of his fellow classmates.
This is the second school shooting in the history of Russia and the first one in the history of Ukraine.
>>
No. 11202
65 kB, 628 × 617
>>11201
But it happened on the Russia, not on the Ukraine, de facto.
>>
No. 11204
>>11202
Not for long, the Russian government will inevitably collapse and abandon this territory due to growing social discontent caused by slow economic growth.
>>
No. 11219
>>11204
Sorry to say, but I not see scenario where crimea bdcome ukraine again. I want to see collapse of our goverment too but unless russia jugoslavia-like fragmented this territory will remain as part of russia even nobody wanted it.
And saying that crimea still ukrainian even it is legally is same as those people who not accepted fall of soviet union because it was fragmented illegaly too.
>>
No. 11228
>>11219
>And saying that crimea still ukrainian even it is legally is same as those people who not accepted fall of soviet union because it was fragmented illegaly too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_68/262
Crimea is Ukrainian as long as there are international sanctions and initiatives to exert pressure on Russia. No one is trying to revive the USSR.
Russia (and the world too) will inevitably liberalize and turn into giant Sweden or Germany, it's just a matter of time, and people like Trump, Khrushchev, Hitler or Putin just resist cultural change and try to postpone it. When it inevitably happens, internal pressure of westernized population will force new Russian politicians to stop the isolation of the country and deal with the world.
>>
No. 11230
>>11228
A non-binding UN resolution is nothing more than a show of deep concernment. I think the Crimean situation will simply be seen as a fait accompli and Russian-[Other Powers] relations will normalize. Ideally it would even up similar to Olivença, a disputed territory that is just an internal joke between two friendly governments.
Although, sadly, I think it is more likely that it will be seen as a pressing symbol of Russian oppression by the Ukrainian people.
>>
No. 11232
>>11230
Yes, a full-scale invasion and war in the neighboring and one of the oldest allied territories will simply be an internal joke between two friendly governments. Just like with baltics, amirght?
>Now Baltic people oppress Russian minority and are still butthurt with Russian actions over the past centuries
Oops! I already mentioned Holodomor and the need for direct Russian aggression to awaken Ukrainian identity. This shit is going to seriously affect the new generations of Ukrainians, because before that we didn’t have a confrontation in which only Russians could be blamed
>>
No. 11233
>>11232
>Yes, a full-scale invasion and war in the neighboring and one of the oldest allied territories will simply be an internal joke between two friendly governments.
Well, that was our disputed territory of Olivença began.
Not that I think this will be the case, mind you. I said that ideally it would turn out this way. But as I said, it sadly doesnt seem like it will.

In my own opinion, I don't see the takeover of Crimea was something particularly evil or shocking. The most evil action Rashka pulled during the period was funding a gruesome war to destabilize the Ukraine, for that I really find no form of moral justification.
>>
No. 11234
>>11233
What's the moral justification of land grab? Does this mean that Ukraine can do whatever it wants the next time the shit hits a fan in Russia?
>>
No. 11238
29 kB, 450 × 347
>>11234
>Does this mean that Ukraine can do whatever it wants the next time the shit hits a fan in Russia?
Yes
>>
No. 11242
20 kB, 480 × 360
>>11234
Claiming Crimea prevented America from stealing Russia's warm water port and starting a land dispute in Donbass keeps Nato from expanding into Ukraine and using it as proxy cannon fodder for the big slav on slav war zionists wanted since 1945 ended.

The next generation of Ukrainians won't be watching tv and will be flaming faggots from all the estrogen in the food so their opinion doesn't matter. Remember that Monsanto took over Ukraine in 2014 as soon as the overthrow occured.
>>
No. 11244 Kontra
>>11242
We have an extra conspiracy thread for that, you know?
>>
No. 11254
>>11228
Well, you can think about it as ukrainain if you want, or dream that about it will go back, but it is just another territory on world map that for decades remain "controversial". Nagorny Karabah, Northen Cyprus and some other cases which result of modern not ended wars.
I want to say again, that I don't wanted crimea, and I honestely generally opposite to curret Russian goverment and to current Ukrainain goverment, because they are same tier trash. And I absoluetly don't like "ura-patriots" from both sides. I recommned to you instead of be so lienar in thinking, see this problem as complex result of post-USSR countries politics and in what actual dead end We are, and think, how to chanche overall mentality of people to remove ethernal sovok from their heads and give at least some part of control of country not to oligarhs, but to people. Maidan was an iteresting attempt, but as we look now, it changed nothing, exept another oligarhs from nearby country used it to take some land.
However as I said, this is complex problem and joke that unlike majority of other ukrainian regions in Crimea majority is russians, and even thought this war was not legal - like almost all wars though human history - things ended like they ended. You can wait some collapses (same as myself, I want see putin dead), but I going to dissapoint you on this regard.
>>
No. 11255
>>11254
>No one is trying to revive the USSR
Also lol, aren't russian agression towards nerby countries isn't attemt to re-establish full control on former USSR republics? But without jokes, there is crazy gropus of people who as I metion still not aacepted fall of USSR. There was news month ago or so where guy tried to "re-caoture" some local goverment building in shitty village.
>>
No. 11257
>>11242
All lies. Everyone weak and gay will leave Ukraine in the next 5-10years. The next Ukrainian generation will consist purely from manly man and "10 out of 10 on Ukraine" girls
>>
No. 11282
>>11230
I wouldn't underestimate the international outlook on this one. Post-1945 annexations are absolutely not kosher under international law and even China has abstained (a big move as the two usually operate in concert). It's not going to be something that will just be brushed under the carpet because it violates the fundamental tenant of our international system and thereby a precedent cannot be set.

I'm certain Ernstchan has had this conversation before but it still seems to me like Russia has been grabbed by the balls with sanctions and they won't let up. Certainly not when every few months someone does some monumentally stupid act like using chemical weapons in rural Britain.
>>
No. 11312
325 kB, 1035 × 483
Tesla finally offers new, cheaper "mid-range" (=250miles) model for 45k$ without tax benefits. In California it will cost about $35,000 after federal and state tax rebates.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-releases-a-35000-model-3-after-rebates-2018-10
>>
No. 11353
>>11282
Blame Israel (and Western complicity), they made demographic restructuring and annexation fashionable again.
>>
No. 11389
>>
No. 11431
https://www.vox.com/2018/10/17/17990268/pat-robertson-khashoggi-saudi-arabia-trump-crisis
I find it funny how cynical and evil religious Americans are.
>>
No. 11434
>>11431
I don't know that I would actually even consider Evangelicals religious. They are, by far, the most morally bankrupt people in the entire country, and this being America that's saying a lot. Like I don't think the religious impulse even enters the equation with these people. People like Pat Robertson are more an arm of the entire deep state apparatus, a term often abused by people like Trumptards who are basically just the turbo version of the same shitty neocon policies and the exact same ruthless billionaire oligarch establishment. They change labels like changing a raincoat. Evangelicals in particular don't even actually take a real moral stand on any issues outside abortion. They aren't even paragons of anything resembling sexual purity either.

It is pretty much the American vatnik brigades. They don't believe in God, they believe in the State and the elites that own it. Although, certain public figures like Robertson are in particular cynical conmen who are utterly devoid of genuine morals and principles. He's basically a businessman knowingly selling shit he doesn't believe in that doesn't actually work.
>>
No. 11590
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmLmTN_4tDg

Interesting case, that there is possible war inside one country. Not civil war, but war between different republics inside one country. I think nobody here even know, I guess that worldwide news not talk about it, same as almost all here, but I trying to follow situation with Chechenya-Ingushetia border. Of cource Putin will take side of Kadyrov but I hope that something really interesting happened. If there start real fight and other things like this, it may be dangerous case.
>>
No. 11610
>>11590
My understanding is that this is so-far just protests in the Ingushetia capital for a fight they cannot possibly win. Like you say, Kadyrov has simply too much sway at the federal level for his irredentist fantasies to fail.

Then again it's not like we in the west have any idea of what goes on in deepest darkest Russia. What does Russian internet say is happening?
>>
No. 11613
>>11610
Goverment news as usual from start not tell anything.

And there hard to get that much news from this regions - considereing what happeninh in caucasus always it like country inside country. They even turning off internet regulary in all republic. But there was really huge potests, I seen videos where was fights between hell lot of homo and protests. It was not that lame like hipster protests in moscow - noth caucasian people not such pussies.

And I say kremlin very much fear any instability here so there a real chance of happening.
>>
No. 11615
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX98-1cuUFM
Some months ago an "association of asian americans" sued Harvard for what they see as discrimination towards "asian americans" in their obscure admission processes. You can find a lot of articles and vids news about it on the Internet. Now thanks to this lawsuit the Wallstreet journal had access to some cases of the admission process and how weird it is. It is basically a bunch of bullshitery about "personal traits" that sounds like recruitment to be part of the freemasonry.
>>
No. 11637
https://www.apnews.com/c3eaa50bbf8a4cdf9fc5c0952225e1bc

7000 migrants from Honduras make a caravan and slowely moving towards US border. Trump already said that they are a lot criminals among them, said that he will cut money help for Honduras, El Slavador and Guatemala if they will not be stopped https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1054356145798856704
Meanwhile. caravan is already in mexico
>>
No. 11641
Russia tries to hurt Ukraine in its economic warfare. PM Меdvedev announces that Russia will prohibit transfer of money from Russia to Ukraine and export of Ukrainian goods to Russia. Russia wages trade war blocking the export of some Ukrainian goods since 2013 and in 2018 they began the blockade of the Ukrainian ports in the Azov Sea. Russia also doesn't allow Ukrainian companies to use Russia as a staging post and trade with the countries of Central Asia and Caucasus.
According to Ukrainian statistics, remittances from Russia to Ukraine were $2,45 bn Jan-Aug 2018
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/23/10/2018/5bcf109f9a79477f6d0fd3c6?utm_source=pushc
>>
No. 11643 Kontra
>>11641
>Russia tries to hurt Ukraine in its economic warfare
Wait, I thought you guys had final farewell with Russian Empire.
>>
No. 11644
>>11643
I thought that Chechens with FSB put all Russians on the bottle and yet you are still here.
>>
No. 11645 Kontra
>>11641
>>11643
>>11644
Are you from sosach пораша? All in russian and ukrainian internet tired from this shit as fuck after this years and it is defenetly something I don't wanna see here. If you going to make anothr degenerate 2015-tier hohlosrach try to find another place for this.
>>
No. 11647
>>11641
Another episode of брат ьоины, makes me sad every time.
>>
No. 11650 Kontra
>>11644
Why don't you have a nationwide festival?
Look, Russia helps to break ties. You have opportunities to trade with EU but not with the aggressor.
>>
No. 11653
>>11650
You have opportunity to become a president of Russia and Russia has opportunity to become a superpower. So why hasn't this happened yet?
You can't snap fingers and change things in a moment, you can't build strong trade with the EU while having uncompetetive and outdated economy. Russia only reduces Ukraine’s access to foreign markets and chokes the already weak Ukrainian exports even more, reducing the possibility of Ukrainian companies to modernize and leaving the Ukrainian economy in stagnation.
>>
No. 11654
>>11650
The more Slavs hurt each other the more burger I eat
>>
No. 11656
This two actually represent most typical avere people inside russia and ukraine. Stereotypical, follow goverment news and in averege belive in what they say, "patriotic", have contempt to each other and searching way or to insualt each other, or make "fun" of each other - showing best and worst sides of their countris. Too dumb to recognise that despire minor differences they both look like a dumb dog who bark and her mirror reflection for outsiders.

Since Maidan/Crimean hysteria post-ussr internet portals full of this shit, like for years, and in averege half of such conversations provoked by bots from both sides. Hoever, in recent year people are absoluetly tired from this, and propoganda of both goverments lowered care about it to some degree. In both countries currently a lot of different more hard problems in economics and politics which people changed attention on. This news about another sanctions was like daily boring shit nobody cares about anymore, but this tow looks like monkeys from 2015 when was peak of all of that.

As easten slav, I feel spanish shame for this two currently
>>
No. 11659
3,4 MB, 640 × 360, 0:53
Shot down
>>
No. 11660
>A gang of robbers walk into a shop. The owner asks them to come back later when he has more money, and when they do...

>It feels like the makings of a joke, but for a Belgian e-cigarette shop owner this was a frightening reality. Six people entered Didier's shop in the suburbs of Charleroi in daylight with the intent to rob him. The salesman told the group to return at the end of the day, when he could give them more money. In the end though, he got them arrested instead.

>The shop owner said that over the course of 14 long minutes, he tried to befriend the thieves. "There was some pushing and shoving," Didier said. "I didn't give them a thing, but said if they came back later I would have 2 or 3,000 euros." The group bought his bluff, and left.

>"When I called the police, they didn't believe they would come back." But back they did come at 17:30, an hour before the vape shop's closing time. Didier told local media he saw one of the robbers at the door and told them it still was not end of business. When the men returned a third time, at 18:30, the police were at the back of the shop ready to catch them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45958404

To be honest I can see how the bluff would work. You joke around about the insurance covering it anyway and tell them to do it at the end of the day so you can do some minor fraud of your own for mutual benefit.

>>11613
Feels humbling to look at a story like this and realise this is how limited everything was just a few decades ago. Even Radio Free Europe seems to be playing it down.

>>11615
I'm not racist but if admissions penalises Asians by scoring for leadership and confidence then it is Asian culture that needs to change. They're not selecting for a standard stereotype of Asian doctor at Harvard, they're rating research potential to revolutionise the field.

I can't believe I sat through that godawful video. Back when I was student this patronising babying drove me up the wall and I think those that fall for the mantra only forestall their own development.
>>
No. 11662
>>11660
That's criminal darwinism, regards criminal darwinism observer.
>>
No. 11665
>>11167
At least Patriarch Cyril is dropping ebin speeches while the catholic pope is kissing black refugee's feet.

https://youtu.be/LtAexVHRVBA
>>
No. 11669
>>11665
If you want some sort of conquering warlord region that's in bed with state intelligence organization, suggest you pick a different religion than Christianity. You should be well aware the act of washing the Apostles' feet. If you want warlord religion become a Muslim then.
>>
No. 11673 Kontra
>>11653
>So why hasn't this happened yet?
It's happening right now, sufferings on the Ukraine are a part of this plan.
>>
No. 11702
>>11669
I like certain parts of Islam actually for various reasons. What I don't like about the catholic church of today is the change it went through since the second vaticanum/aggiornamento. They are destroying themselves with their idiotic modernization, at least that's what happening here in the west. Every step forward to liberalizing christianity is a step away from being actually important in human's lifes. Here in Germany no-one is seriously visiting the holy mass because the catholic church has become a joke. What they don't get is that no matter how intensely they will try to modernize themselves, it will only make the whole process worse and more devastating. The enemies of the church won't be satisfied as long as it still has any authentic tradition. Knoeing that you're in the USA where there still are actual christians I guess you don't know how desperate the situation is here. (Not to mention that leftists themselves were infiltrating the catholic and protestant church in 60s and 70s, so this destroyed a lot too)
>>
No. 11703
>>11702
A situation I remember from high-school: our religion teacher asked us who of ous believed in god. Only two girls raised there handy and one of them was a muslim. We didn't even really read the bible or talk about it. And I went to school in one of the most catholic regions of germany, I can't even imagine what it is like in bigger cities. Maybe Islamization isn't a bad thing after all...
>>
No. 11704
>>11702
I think the Roman Catholics are really intentionally downplaying own prominence and trying hard to subtly convince the masses the Church is irrelevant and obsolete, notwithstanding the fact that the Church has a rumored 60 000 - 90 000 tons of gold amassed here and there, the fact that secret Vatican concordats are formally above any international law, and the fact that the Jesuits [with SMOM] run and will continue to run both Pentagon, the Wall Street and the NWO itself with an iron fist. Vatican will never cease to be the focal point of the powers reigning behind the scenes.
>>
No. 11706
>>11704
>Pentagon
>Wallstreet
Lol Kennedy was the first and only Catholic president. There used to be massive prejudice against Catholics here which I think also may have played into hate for the Irish at first with their Roman poetry. The country was originally thoroughly anti-papist up until like the 1960s or 70s at which point people sort of stopped giving a shit but even then you have some amount of Protestants convinced that Catholicism is the antichrist. If you believe in the Masonic angle of conspiracism then it should be pointed out these two groups hate each other, or at least you can be excommunicated for being a Freenason. Afaik the Mormons are more liked by certain elements in DoD for some reason although you should look at history of Mormonism. Catholics do however make up a significant part of the judiciary which I think is primarily because Catholics actually maintain a scholarly tradition whereas American protestants for some bizarre reason generally frown upon any kind of higher education or even just education in general, which has crippled them into irrelevance for anything than a voting bloc that gets pandered to with gay marriage and abortion and that's literally it while Catholics and Jews actually write the laws. But otherwise, Catholicss seem to hold little real power outside of law.
>>
No. 11714
8,8 MB, 626 × 360, 1:45
188 kB, 1280 × 853
Fresh from Croatian-Bosnian border, "migrants" breaking through a small Bosnian police cordon and then stopped by Croatian police.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-bosnia/migrants-block-bosnian-border-scuffle-with-croatian-police-idUSKCN1MY1OM
>>
No. 11715
45 kB, 610 × 343
>>11714
Happy to see that Balkanites can find common ground on something.
>>
No. 11718
>>11714
why don`t you beat the shit out of these idiots ?
>>
No. 11719
220 kB, 494 × 345
It is XXI centuary but people still acting so dumb. Global problems get even worse, politics on baby level, nationalism, athoritarism combined with alogical pseudo-tolerancy and terrible decline of mass culture into even more black hole of brainless consuming. Looking at news and how people act - even in this thread I wonder if we able to pass to be more smart and more adult society, or we are in a trap and mankind in dead end of border limits of averege intelligence?
Even most part of our modern culture build upon IRONIC refferences on culture of past and old ideas
>>
No. 11721
>>11718
Because our police doesn't have authority to enter Bosnian clay.
>>
No. 11723
>>11719
Welcome to the new Dark Ages
Yeah, I hope you're living right
These are the new Dark Ages
And the world might end tonight
So, how do you sleep?
There's nothing to keep
This is deep
Because we're animals with golden rules
Who, who can't be moved by rational views, yeah
>>
No. 11729
>>11673
Russia has 140mln people with 1.7 fertility rate, 10 000 GDP per capita and there are no good signs for improvement in the Russian economy. If in the future there is a place for Russia, then it's somewhere in the garbage bin.
>>
No. 11732
>>11729
It is a sad thing, and sadder still for recognizing what might have been back when my country and theirs were on friendly terms, but sadly that's never going to happen again for at least a generation because we are both filled with dumb as shit bydlo being ruler over by corrupt thieving idiots right now.

It's especially sad because they had so much potential and historically have been a major light of both Europe and the world but sadly always got dragged down by a combination of really shitty monarchs/Soviet dictators/oligarchs and really shitty dumb peasant bydlo. I'd imagine a large part of soul generation there largely has to do with the profound existential angst it must cause the few relatively same, intelligent, not evil Russians to live there, especially when the combination of dumb bydlo masses and cruel tyrants seem to knowingly conspire to crush and destroy any semblance of intelligence or kindness in that land. I mean, did the USSR for instance really HAVE TO go around shooting all their doctors?
>>
No. 11733
>>11729
>Ukraine
>40 mln people
>1.5 fertility rate
>2500 GDP per capita
>If in the future there is a place for Russia, then it's somewhere in the garbage bin.
This garbage bin will be filled with Ukraine by that time.
>>
No. 11738
>>11733
I expected that I wouldn't get that answer because you yourself would be smart enough to see the flawed logic of such kind of post. Apparently I overestimated your cognitive abilities.
There is a thing that allows me to trash Russia, and every time I do this, butthurt Russian or a foreigner appears infuriated by my activity. The thing I'm talking about is a false sense of superiority, the feeling of being a superpower that's so widely shared by delusional Russians. Ukrainians aren't as retarded as their neighbors to feel entitled to invade other countries and consider themselves some kind of an omnipotent state, Ukraine and Ukrainians don't pretend to be something more than they really are, so there's no point in mocking Ukraine.
>>11732
It's sad and I hope that some kind of afterlife exists, because Alexander III and Konstantin Pobedonostsev deserve eternity of existence with understanding of what are the consequences of their idiotic actions.

(User was banned for this post)

>>
No. 11739
>>11738
>I expected that I wouldn't get that answer because you yourself would be smart enough to see the flawed logic of such kind of post.
>hurr durr I was pretending to be retarded
>Apparently I overestimated your cognitive abilities.
No, you.
>and consider themselves some kind of an omnipotent state
I agree. If Russia were a superpower, there would be no disloyal Ukraine.

(User was banned for this post)

>>
No. 11740
>>11739
There would be Ukraine still. A Ukraine, not the Ukraine.
>>
No. 11742
1,2 MB, 360 × 240, 0:03
>>11738
>>11733
Цыц! Stop this or go somewhere else, atleast do this in separate thread.
>>
No. 11743 Kontra
91 kB, 797 × 491
>>11742
I already recommended them move to sosach porasha
>>
No. 11748 Kontra
>>11738
>>11739
EC is not the place for political flames.
They don't provide quality discussions.
>>
No. 11750 Kontra
Thank you mods. Hope the ban is permanent
>>
No. 11752 Kontra
>>11750
I hope not. We has not very big community to just ban forever people who already was here for quite some time.
>>
No. 11758
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE5Re77Xahs

Somewhat old news, and not really news since it's an interview, but worth discussing still.
>>
No. 11772
>>11752
While I personally don't mind it as much, the two big things that killed KC for good was the Slavic shitflinging from Donbass stuff along with the US elections. At least the pidorism has not infected every single site in existence like our political bullshit has and tends to actually be funny to me instead of just the retarded children of US stuff.

>>11743
Key thing should be thread derails. If it's something that starts derailing unrelated threads, then yeah, it should be back to the sosach time.
>>
No. 11775 Kontra
>>11772
KC was killed by the influx of americans when they closed /new/ on 4chan.
>>
No. 11786 Kontra
>>11775
Well that too
>>
No. 11794
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ouSWNQrkA

I don't know whether to post this in the news thread or the social sciences thread. I think the social sciences thread would be more fitting, specially because this is related with what I was debating there, but nobody ever posted any other interesting study to be debated there, so I abandoned that thread.

I really want to discuss this issue, there's a lot to be talked about. Basically, Amazon is looking for a place to build its second headquarters in USA, and they are openly teasing lots of murkan cities seeing which one will give them the biggest tax breaks so that they can establish themselves there. In USA this is called "incentives war", which happens between cities or between states trying to attract industries and headquarters by giving tax incentives, we have the same stuff here called "guerra fiscal", and the video said that in the EU this is illegal, but I doubt it (because it's basically impossible to stop it) and one comment in the video said that this does happen in EU too. A lot of tax money is lost with such incentives, lots of shady deals between public and private sector happen, it's one of those few things where economists from both left and right agree that it's a bad thing. But it's not easy to stop, because the companies and industries that benefit from it usually are companies and industries that are not geographically bound, like extraction industries are, for example. This is an old debate among economists that date back to Weber's day, about where industries tend to locate themselves (near the end consumer market, near cheap labor, near the resource extraction location, etc), whether or how much transport costs will affect their location of choice, and other related issues. Another issue is that companies for whom tax breaks matter so much are usually the same companies that will want to hire as little people as possible, they're not looking to hire a lot of talents to develop new products or explore new markets, they're looking to streamline their operation and cut costs wherever they can, they want less people and cheap people, and what these cities and states want is the opposite, they want to make these companies provide jobs, they are forfeiting their taxes in exchange of jobs.

Also related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gG-P5aqPYE
>>
No. 11795 Kontra
>>
No. 11816
44 kB, 434 × 780
Yes, the claim about illegality in the EU is bullshit. Never listen to Americans talking about the EU, not even Europeans understand it!

Regarding the issue itself you're right to think in terms of this being impossible to fight legislatively. There are just so many ways you can produce incentive and many of those that might be affected can be viewed as profoundly good. Consider the interest in a skilled workforce/ infrastructure or supporting economically deprived areas/industries which would be harmed in a quixotic battle against domestic competition. Instead there needs to be moves to address the larger forces behind this. Most important being the sheer size of post-recession organizations and stubbornly slow job growth which provide quasi-Zaibatsu bargaining power. That will only be resolved by a dramatic shake-up of the economic players that never happened 10 years ago because post-recession reform and bailouts were respectively toothless and ham-fisted.

The ideal way to fix this would be efforts by the world’s leading economies to break up what are by now becoming duopolies with tighter market supervision. Something impossible because at least US-China will never agree to it -much less expecting such powers survive lobbying and the feckless imbeciles that run regulatory bodies. Now I do not advocates extremist solutions either and I'd like to stress I am perfectly sane. Faith in the teachings of microeconomics will save us along with a natural selection that will occur over the coming years as various monorail-inclined cities cave. Market champions will also learn over the coming years that if they are to continue they need to recognise they are just as dependant on healthy cities in ways quite unlike financial services (something China is leading in by necessity).

>I don't know whether to post this in the news thread or the social sciences thread. I think the social sciences thread would be more fitting, specially because this is related with what I was debating there, but nobody ever posted any other interesting study to be debated there, so I abandoned that thread.

Most general threads are cancer. If you want to talk about a given issue then make a thread for it, this is how message-boards work.
>>
No. 11817
>>11816
I'm not an economist, but I've been reading stuff somewhat related to it in the past months, "new economic geography", "spacial economy", etc, specially regarding the BR situation (so it' mostly stuff in PT) and from what I gather this is a problem that economists themselves have had a hard time solving for centuries now.

The usual reasoning is that companies and industries will want to be near their clients and consumer markets, which means that they will want to be near the big urban regions of the world. So big cities get even more investments, jobs and tax revenues, make them grow even more, and it becomes a virtuous cycle for them, while the countryside slowly empties itself and dies out. But then the counter argument is that at some point those big cities will become too expensive for some businesses, quality of life will also become more expensive, citizens will be less willing to accept new investments and even try to stop it with environmental regulations and other NIMBY tactics, which will then lead some companies to go look for places in the countryside to establish themselves. Workers too will want to move to places with cheaper and better quality of life.

So supposedly there is a balance and a trade off, big cities will concentrate the expensive, innovative and high productivity side of the economy, countryside will concentrate the cheap and commoditized side of the economy. Amazon's case is probably one such case, they're calling it a "headquarters 2" but it's probably actually just a big operations center that they want to locate in some cheap murkan city in the countryside in order to cut costs, while their fancier innovative research-focused headquarters will stay in Seattle, Silicon Valley, or whatever fancy IT westcoast city it is already located in.

But the problem is that if you look at the big picture for the last decades, such trade off isn't helping the countryside side of the things, in the end big cities are still growing and the countryside dying. Amazon's "headquarters 2" will never be a high paying innovative research center like their Headquarters 1 in West coast, they will always be looking to cut jobs and costs there. You can see why countryside cities would be using the tax breaks and incentives tactics in order to avoid the slow death fate. Economists will criticize such tactics, but they offer no other solution, and there's also no way of stopping such policies. Or at least this is what I gather about the issue so far.
>>
No. 11818
>>11817
Hmm I don't know about transportation costs being such an issue in today's economies per se. The greater drive I read towards urban centres is instead that they serve as hubs for skilled workers, services and the nebulous transference of ideas. From the worker side rents are a pain but frankly most people don't want to live somewhere out in the provinces. Not the young graduates hungry to climb the career ladder and do young people stuff or parents wanting to send their kids to a good commuter-belt school. In a related way this is how the telecommuting solution plateaued as it simply doesn't have the desirability initially envisioned by it’s proponents.

Anyway, Amazon is certainly an example of how transportation isn't such an issue when the majority of it's property is located in warehouse distribution centres on the outskirts of civilization. That is the entire gimmick really. Same with the general movement of international assembly. What I instead see in HQ2 is a recognition that the US is a bigger place than Silicone Valley which has led to a movement away from California over the past 20 years to cities with their own skilled workers such as Dallas etc. The US has many big hungry-hungry cities and that in itself also sustains the incentive war.

Although writing this out it is obvious our differing perspectives are rooted in national circumstances I think the global growth of urbanisation is unavoidable. It would even be a mistake to try to fight it rather than mitigate harm. Rural economies will continue to struggle but that can be alleviated somewhat by exploiting regional cities (whose public investment requirement may be greater) and raising wages for warehouse workers. Frankly I don't see anything further you can do until teleporters emerge or there is greater coordination nationally on what sectors go where as in mainland China. It's weird to go this long on the topic of Amazon without mentioning multinational tax avoidance.
>>
No. 11820
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/nyregion/cnn-cory-booker-pipe-bombs-sent.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

Every MAGApede on 4chan and Twitter denied the existence of right-wing extremist that sent bombs to Obama, Soros and Clinton, and put the blame on false flag leftie attack, then this happened, but of course that will not change their way of thinking. Soon Republican base will forget this, just like they forgot the Iraq invasion, Republican reluctance to provide fiscal stimulus after 2008 and constant Republican lies about being fiscally responsible and other bullshit.
Before I became interested in politics and started visiting English imageboards, I thought that political consciousness is closely related to high quality education, so the Westerns should naturally make wise choises, but this religious cult around Trump and Republican tribalism again and again trampled down this thought.
Now I don't understand what can help people to properly use their democratic privileges for their own benefit if it's not education.
>>
No. 11822
38 kB, 500 × 379
>>11820
Remember that 100 is supposedly average IQ. That means by default that half the country has an IQ ≤100
Trump's popularity in general has hovered roughly around 40% since basically the election (I think both had approval ratings that low during the election itself). This means that about 60% of the country is displeased with the borderline retarded/actually retarded 40% of America.

You also are making it sound like any of these people believe it. poltards are the biggest pathological liars on the internet. They do this every time. It's like how whenever there's a mass shooting they immediately spam the internet with "antifa did!" or "sjw false flag! there was no shooting!"

The funniest thing to me is they sent bombs to Robert De Niro along with CNN. See this is what we call a "signature" something poltards are too fucking stupid to understand which is how we know for a fact it's them. Who would it occur to to send letter bombs like BASED Ted Kaczynski to people like CNN and De Niro?

Oh dear fucking god I was looking for a pic of him and his family and noticed the filename was "dezero" so I decided to check which shitty blog https://tinyurl.com/kf97ezr (does tinyurl demonetize? I don't even want to give this faggot clicks) The funniest thing is poltard terrorists are banking on people being dumber than they are. People are pretty fucking dumb, but that's bottom of the barrel.
>>
No. 11829
>>11818
Wanting to be near clients and main markets isn't about transportation costs, but about knowing what your client wants and adapting to it fast . What companies that work with commoditized products do, is to keep one office full of well educated, high paid, pampered and capable employees in some big city, where they can do research, adapt to market demand and recruit more young talents easily; and they they outsource everything else to low cost areas where cutting cost is always the priority, no talents needed there, just a bunch of low paid workers doing repetitive menial jobs. Companies that work with innovative markets do not have that second part of the structure.

From the worker's side it's true that being in the big cities, where the best jobs and best study opportunities are located, is overall a better option for them, the allure of the big city is the career prospect. But the countryside still has the allure of cheaper and better quality of life. This study here...
http://calls.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/psp1806.pdf
... might interest you, since they analyze UK. They cite many reasons of why people, including talented, workers might choose the countryside. But it's all in an analogous way to the companies and industry choice between big city and countryside: you give up being at the center of things in order to look for something cheaper. The so-called sun belt in USA is also a good example: many people have been moving from everywhere in the country to the sun belt these past decades, and the cities in this region which were once relatively small and had simple economy, are now hightech hubs and growing fast. And the reason why so many people move to such cities is simply because they're cheaper to live and have a more pleasant weather.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAPXizkNtnE
>>
No. 11837
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/23/business/media/fever-advertisements-medicine-clorox.html
I don't even understand the point of this slide to the reign of the antichrist. Like, why the fuck would you even hook a thermometer up to your damn phone to begin with? This is pure madness and one of the most depressing things is realizing how deep we are in now with these stupid fucking people who don't care about any shred of privacy or rights of theirs anymore. Each day I want more and more to set what remains of property tying me to this world on fire and going to just wander and preach the Bible.
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No. 11872
20 kB, 200 × 209
>A 4chan poster may have solved part of a very tricky math problem that mathematicians have been working on for at least 25 years. The user was just trying to figure out the most efficient way to watch episodes of a nonlinear anime series, but the result has generated considerable interest from mathematicians around the world who have no way to identify the anonymous user.

>Yesterday, Robin Houston, a computer scientist and mathematician tweeted about the bizarre intersection of 4chan and mathematics, inadvertently setting off a wave of public interest in the story. Within hours of his tweet, his phone was vibrating constantly. “It started to go mad,” he says. “My phone started going crazy.” The 4chan part of this saga began on September 17th, 2011, when a poster posed a question: if you wanted to watch 14 episodes of the anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya in every possible order, what’s the shortest string of episodes you’d need to watch?

>There are 14 episodes in the first season of Haruhi, a 2006 anime based on a series of Japanese light novels. The episodes, which feature time travel and are otherwise chronologically challenging for the viewer, originally aired in a nonlinear order. When the series went to DVD, the episodes were rearranged, and it’s become something of an obsession for fans to rewatch the series over and over again, going through as many chronologies as possible. An anonymous poster figured out one possible way to solve to the 4chan problem, satisfying the more mathematically inclined Haruhi fans. But in the process, they also helped puzzle out an issue that mathematicians have been working on since 1993. The anonymously authored proof (which was recently reposted on a Fandom wiki) is currently the most elegant solution to part of a mathematical problem involving something called superpermutations. It’s an enigma that goes well beyond anime.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18019464/4chan-anon-anime-haruhi-math-mystery

I for one am left wondering what else the internet has discovered only to go unnoticed or (heaven forbid) uncredited.
>>
No. 11873
>>11872
>I for one am left wondering what else the internet has discovered only to go unnoticed or (heaven forbid) uncredited.
Bitcoin?
>>
No. 11881
>>11873
Everyone knows about that though.
>>
No. 11889
>>11829
Watched video - I find videos like that very annoying and clickbait. "HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW? DON'T FORGET SO SUBSCRIBE TO MY TWITTER AND MY FRIEND!!" - eegh. Placed dislike in hope youtube will not reccomend me anything like that.
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No. 11900
58 kB, 1200 × 630
33 kB, 640 × 418
137 kB, 1920 × 3006
59 kB, 1024 × 681
>>
No. 11906
>>11900
>suicided
Talk about hyperbole. Looks like their coalition is threatened but it's not like they've even been toppled, let alone destroyed completely. Looks more like you just have some people switching to AfD and a bunch more Green party members. Speaking of which did Piraten finally die?
>>
No. 11915
Some major happening in brazil. They chose the new president with far right views. Don't know where it's going, because completely unaware how Brazilian government works.
>>
No. 11916
>>11915
Presumably they have a Senate or something that works with laws in some way rather than having a dictatorship of El Presidente (PT Edition). He'll struggle to push through anything too radical because that's bad juju for the lower political class which thrives on the corruption enabled by not being looked at too hard by the public eye.
>>
No. 11928
>>11915
Concluded from his rhetoric I expect the worst.
>>
No. 11929
>>11906
>but it's not like they've even been toppled

Because there were no federal elections yet. But reaching a level of 20% and below, ending as 3rd or only 4th party behind Greens and AFD really is a big deal for them.
The role of CDU and SPD during the last 50 years
was almost comparable to republicans/democrats in the USA, with some smaller parties like the FDP or the Greens serving them as "majority provider" sometimes. The chancelor would always be CDU or SPD and so on... Now all of this might be gone for good. A SPD with 20% is pretty much a dead SPD.
>>
No. 11930
>>11928
Same was with trump, in reality it turned out to be just nothing. If this is true >>11916, than nothing will happen except for some words.
>>
No. 11940
>>11916
The big worry are the opinions he has expressed in favour of the military dictatorship and torture of political opponents. Keep in mind Brazilian democracy is still quite young and unstable with Bolsonaro only last month surviving a stabbing and many politicians now sitting in jail for corruption. There's a big uncertainty about what a new South American strongman will do given historical record and various activists dying in police custody.

Of the two options I would've still voted for him. Brazil is one of those countries where you really think maybe it would be better if some first-world administration took over for a couple decades.
>>
No. 11941
>>11829
>And the reason why so many people move to such cities is simply because they're cheaper to live and have a more pleasant weather.

I think it is important to focus on the government contracts part of the process. There is a related observation that comes up in Champion et al. of migration correlating with a job offer which I think will show much more strongly in the next census. He hadn't even occurred to me that someone might move without a job offer.

In a sense this justifies various tax goodies as a spark for a boom. Open to cargo cult behaviour of course but you can see the logic following the American experience of defence contracts.
>>
No. 11943
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/brazil-elects-far-right-congressman-bolsonaro-to-presidency/2018/10/28/3f29235e-db14-11e8-8bac-bfe01fcdc3a6_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6ff5dce2ce46

Same time as Frau Merkel leaving her Throne, Brazil elected new el-prezidente. He known as "trump from jungles" and kinda "far right" guy. I don't know objective information about him, all I get of cource thought western news which of cource can show things kinda not objective but anyway, this is kinda funny.
>>
No. 11945
>>11941
>I think it is important to focus on the government contracts part of the process
I'd like to see data on this indeed.

>>11915
>>11916
>>11928
>>11930
>>11943
There are some similarities and some differences with the Trump phenomenon. In BR private donations to campaigns are limited, and there's a lot of regulations of how the campaigns can work. There's a public fund for such campaigns and all media channels are forced to air some amount of time of political propaganda during the campaign period. The rules to the distribution of such funds and broadcast time takes into account how big the parties are, and then there's also the "coligations" where parties unite to get a bigger funding and broadcast time and then focus on electing one candidate only with those resources. One thing similar to Trump in this campaign is the Internet vs traditional media rhetoric, Bolsonaro was an irrelevant guy coming from a small and lonely party, he didn't have access to those official funds and his campaign was heavily based on the Internet. Thus he was seen by many of his voters as "anti-establishment", the coligations thing is seen as one of the main sources of corruption and difficulty in changing our politics, there's a crazy intricate but very flexible net of party alliances and it always feels like you're supporting the same people no matter how much you try to change. So Bolsonaro is ridding this wave of anti-corruption anti-establishment feeling by using the Internet. The thing is that Internet here is mostly a thing for well off people, poor people might have smartphones and computers, but they usually have limited internet data plans that doesn't allow them to make heavy use of images and videos, they also have no english skill whatsoever, and many also have difficulties writing in Portuguese. So although Bolsonaro voters see themselves as some kind of anti-estabilishment wave, they are actually the richer and more educated part of society. They worry about corruption because they don't need to worry about unemployment.

Meanwhile the left wing found itself in a difficult situation, they always saw the Internet as their ally against the "big media" that traditionally dominates this country. But now this "big media" (TV, radio and journals), that they so consistently attacked for all of these past decades, was the only thing that they had left. None of these media groups showed any sympathy for them obviously, even if they wanted to, worker's party have not done any effort to make friends with traditional journalists in these past decades. Many journalists were clearly distressed at the Bolsonaro phenomenon, but had no sympathy for worker's party either.

Another aspect is the violence issue, it has been increasing for two decades now, including during Lula's golden years where the country was growing 6%, unemployment was almost very low, inequality was falling, wages were rising. The rhetoric from the left is basically "more human rights, more critique of inequality, racism, etc", although violence only increased when these issues were supposedly being solved. Now people are fed up with this humanistic rhetoric.

As for Bolsonaro's political inclinations, there's something Trump-like too, but also big differences. He's a caipira (a hick, hillbilly, redneck, etc) who served as a low ranking army man during the dictatorship, for decades he was a federal deputy who got his votes from military people who wanted to defend their privileges. The Armed Forces got themselves a lot of privileges during the dictatorship era (such as super generous retirement age and pensions), and ever since the re-democratization there has been an effort to cut down on these privileges, Bolsonaro as a deputy opposed this. But now as a presidency candidate he had to convince the small-government people that he was their guy, so he claimed that "his views on government size and expenditure has changed" and claims to have been convinced by Paulo Guedes (an economist with very liberal economic views, it became a joke to portray Bolsonaro asking for help to Guedes whenever anything about economy comes up, because he has no understanding on economic matters, but also because he wants to show that whatever economy-related is up to Paulo Guedes and Guedes gets a complete green light from him). The dictatorship might have been right wing, but it was not economically liberal in any way, they were developmentists, protectionists, used the state to guide the economy, and expanded the public machine like hell. This is one of the gaps in Bolsonaro's projects, his old support base and the new one are not on the same boat when it comes to economy, those military men will not like it if he pushes for retirement pension reforms (which liberal economists claim is the single most important reform necessary for our economy right now).

Bolsonaro's political platform is a crazy concocted mix of murkan neocon take on religion (the judeo-catholic-evangelic tradition against the fags), free-markets-will-fix-everything economics, and a military nationalism married with support for everything United-stadian and Israeli. All of these groups certainly dislike socialists, marxists and the likes, but they do not get along in many other aspects. And this is where I give my personal impression of the whole thing: Bolsonaro seems to be juggling these conflicting issues together so careless because he is genuinely dumb and has no idea of what he's talking about, he was trained like a dog to bark at communism during his army days, and this is what he does, and as long as other people show the same dislike for anything "communist" (anything progressive), that's good enough for him. He has repeatedly shown that he has no understanding whatsoever of economic matters, and even many legislative and general government organization matters that he should know from his years as a federal congressman. Trump to me seems like a guy who did it his own way, he has political smarts and dared to create his own political cause and hijacked the republican party with it, Bolsonaro on the other hand is being carried on by bigger forces, the political instability that happened due to corruption investigations, and the economic crisis that we went through in 2015 and 2016 which according to some economists, is due to a big state.
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No. 11946
>>11930
Not really. Trump is a Berlusconi type, that Brazilian guy is more of a Goebbels type judging by what he threatened to his opponents, various minorities etc.

We'll see what is going to happen anyway.
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No. 11948
>>11930
>to be just nothing
He's managed to be even worse than I expected. The only thing holding this country back from the edge is the wisdom of the Founding Fathers made a system of government specifically with fuckheads like that in mind. Despite his best efforts at totally concentrating power and wealth into solely his own hands, he's also being sabotaged by his own people and by leveler heads. Were this not the case the US would've already invaded Iran, Venezuela, and North Korea, our free press would've been abolished, and we'd have retarded ex-USSR tier statues and military parades and dumb holidays everywhere among other things. He's also managed to completely trash our reputation internationally and isolate us. A lot of the really terrible things he's done domestically you haven't seen or heard about because for some reason the whole country acts like a bunch of celebrity gossiping whores instead who only focus on whatever absolutely retarded thing he shitposted online in the last 15 minutes.

>>11946
Eh at least Berlusconi could have his moments of competence. He also wasn't running that much of an important country which ended up along with places like Portugal, Spain, Greece etc. as the borderline failing EU members.

>>11943
The whole world has been entering a period of instability it seems. I can smell the bitter wind. It smells like rot and decay, like darkness and closing vision. The last time things got this out of hand was possibly the Years of Lead in Europe, or if it goes far enough WWIII. Not all our countries are as durable. And you should add the thing about Britain trying to pull out of EU, which more and more makes it look like they'll get someone like Corbyn with the complete disaster brexit may well turn out to be.
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No. 11949
8,8 MB, 480 × 360, 2:30
>>11941
>you can see the logic following the American experience of defence contracts.
This should be at the top of the list of what not to do. The military industrial complex does not benefit us the people. It doesn't really produce jobs. It solely benefits a few corrupt figures at the top. This in turn leads to us being in bed with some of the worst shitholes around, many of whom are actively trying to sabotage us or spread terrorism to our cities. It sinks us into pointless foreign conflicts that have nothing to do with us all to sell a few more warheads to make the politically and financially well connected some more money, thus turning those countries into worse shitholes and then breeding more terrorists who'll attack us/attack Europeans or flood the West as refugees, thus creating a vicious cycle.

I don't even understand why anybody views merchants of war with such dumbfuck optimism and idealism. Why would you even look up to a person who's enriching himself by selling tools of mass murder? They aren't helping anybody but themselves.
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No. 11953
131 kB, 600 × 333
>>11829
Smell of instablitity strted from Arabian uprisings and re-elction of Pootine in 2012 already. There was a couple of other minor things happened same time that I forgot, but by which real sociologists can predict slow change of times.

While for most western countries 00s was kind of continuation of 90s - 10s indeed is transitional age for kind of new historical "decade". It like "Tick tock" and we currently aproached new "Tick".

I'd say from such fast fall of soviet union started kinda new world - before for whole centuary and even before we always had major political forces and clear goles what to and how to move. Napolenic France, British and Russian Empires, then USSR, Nazi Germany, Japanise Empire, than Soviet block and NATO, all countries on earth was almost clearly represented by idiology, it's leaders and other famous persons and next day was the same after another - there is the enemy, there is the friend. There is our leader - there is their leader. Like what makind do from start of it's existance but now it was on planet-level clear and idiloagies marked clear distinction between different sides of eternal conflict that we call "history".

And now - it is really very strange time, like absoluetly. Our recent technological progress created so many new political and social global problems. Like before such progress only helped resolve them - better medecine, better transportation. But now we have information technologies that constantly producing content - good quality, bad quality, most terrible quality. Everything. And whole media and mass culture feels like it just full of infinity shitpost. And thins changing our society very much. I don't know it is bad or good in general, it will be historicans of future opinion on it. But is makind ready for all of this? I fear not that much. And all this social problems - degenrate politics level, rise of authritorian and pro-right local goverments, instability and absoluetly idiotoc trends in right and left politic wings equaly is results of:

1.Lost of concretic orienteers and makrs. There no ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE SUPERPOWER dominance. There just smaller unions and smaller scale states that have no concretic idea and don't part of any kind of "side". Even EU not such united and have conflicts inside.
2.Dominance of absolute information shitpost in media, news, culture which creating new society where tweet posts and hype of views on youtube is most iportant things, where even major event can easelly be hided from public by other lame things, and same time when ironik jokes and shitty pictures become so mass popular it creating mood of society and become political power.

Combine this two factors and it will create for you very dangerous soup where makind don't know in which direction it need to follow at all and it absoluetly blindly without concretic goal and sometimes reasons just dive themselfs into future. It kinda of "ape with grenade" effect. Fear of unknown is worst of fears this why I don't like non modern politics, non modern society.

I don't think there will be WWIII in any kind, society too different nowdays for this kind of shit and there no actual countries who want or can actually start it. But what I fear more is cultural degeneration and it kinda really happen. Maybe it will be even better if right now there will be like gint solar flare that cause geomagnetic storm that will just destroy all our electronics. Of cource human will rebuild it after a couple of years but we will have kind of 2nd chance to pass thought same events we already had and with this experience it will be not so blindly.
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No. 11963
>>11949
>thus turning those countries into worse shitholes and then breeding more terrorists who'll attack us/attack Europeans or flood the West as refugees, thus creating a vicious cycle.
It's not only about terrorists and refugees. Prosperous Russia, Libya, Iran, China, North Korea is in the interest of Americans, and prosperous Russia/Ukraine is in the interests of Ukrainians/Russians, everything because of economic opportunities and human capital. Stable rich countries with a quality health care and education system produce more educated and productive citizens who in turn indirectly affect the quality of life of Americans, Ukrainians, Russians, Chinese, etc providing the entire planet with more advanced technologies and more affordable and cost-effective goods.
Every country is interested in exporting goods for its own prosperity and growing world economy and consumption, purchasing power of citizens of foreign countries would lead to greater American exports and employment. Moreover, the Americans themselves have already expressed dissatisfaction with the need to compete with low-paid Chinese workers and Mexicans who themselves live in terrible conditions.
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No. 11972
>>11963
Cpaitalism system is indeed expluatation of other countries for their own needs. Capitalism don't want all people live on decent level because expluatation system will broke. At first colonies, now third world - 1st world currently can not exist withour third and fourth world, from which it get cheaper materials, workers and other resourses so ecenomy work even with most high iternal standarts of living.
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No. 11975
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>>11972
>Cpaitalism system is indeed expluatation of other countries for their own needs.
>1st world currently can not exist withour third and fourth world
Indeed, I tell you that if those railroad tycoons allow for colonial land to become richer, London will lose her prestigious place as industry center of the world and be reduced to poverty.
If we allow them to continue developing the dark continent, what will happen to our centers of wealth and prosperity? Reduced to ashes, I tell you!
Economical development is not a zero sum game
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No. 11976
>>11975
>London will lose her prestigious place as industry center of the world and be reduced to poverty.
And where British Empire of the never-setting sun, biggest state of the world nowdays? I see only tiny islands with a couple of even more tiny islands that from his recent actions can even loose Scotland and northen Ierland.

>If we allow them to continue developing the dark continent, what will happen to our centers of wealth and prosperity? Reduced to ashes, I tell you!
Imagine whole world with equal or close to equal standars of living and developed culture. Like there no 3rd world countries, you will go to Tajikistan or Botswana and everywhere will be same like in Switzerland or Luxembourg. How first world countires can conitune to have avalible goods for people? Already most of world industry and production and material export moved to third world countries - because with piss poor standars of living and work it much more cheap to produce, manufacture, build. So people in rich countries have acces to goods with prices of piss-poor standarts of living. And rich states from production shifting to focus on services and other high-quality but non-production needs.

But following logic of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, who the fuck will want servises when all basic goods become much more expensive, because there no poor countries in which they can be produced for a low price? All basic things - from heavy machinery to miscellaneous household items will become as much expensive, as current standarts of living, automaticly reducing standarts of living of whole world back to mid XIX centuary. Capitalism system need exploiter and neex people who can be exploited to make current economy and standars of living work.
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No. 11977
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>>11976
>And where British Empire of the never-setting sun, biggest state of the world nowdays? I see only tiny islands with a couple of even more tiny islands that from his recent actions can even loose Scotland and northen Ierland.

In a dark and dire situation of nothing but poverty and misery.

>Imagine whole world with equal or close to equal standars of living and developed culture. Like there no 3rd world countries, you will go to Tajikistan or Botswana and everywhere will be same like in Switzerland or Luxembourg. How first world countires can conitune to have avalible goods for people?

Imagine a world in which colonial holdings have a living standard comparable to the great cities of our old Europe, one in which more than half of the population is able to read. One in which from Beijing to Cairo, one is able to find a living standard comparable to this Britain of ours, in which only half of children are forced to work in looms or mines.
If we allow colonial societies to reach this level of wealth, who will work? The entire piramid will collapse!

>All basic things - from heavy machinery to miscellaneous household items will become as much expensive, as current standarts of living, automaticly reducing standarts of living of whole world back to mid XIX centuary.

This is so idiotic, that I am not even able to continue with satire.
What happened when Shenzhen stopped being a pisspoor basic electronic manufacturing city? What happened when virtually all 3rd world Asiatic countries experienced a rapidly increasing living standard of living? Did famine strike Europe?
You have a zero sum mentality. I'll ask you, what happened when slavery was abolished? Did living standards collapse for the wealthy?
When serfdom was abolished, did aristocratic families fall into poverty and the serfs roamed free in the fields, content with eating potatos?
When African countries managed to create an upper and a middle class, did Europe experience a horrible economic downturn? I don't remember mass famine and falling income once Asian economies had their 19th century booms.
This is nothing more than rehashing of the old tale that once capitalism would pierce into the final markets available for it to leech on, the system would finally collapse, lacking hosts.
You really seem to have the very Russian mentality that the world is a zero sum game, and that if any group is better off, then it must naturally come from the lowering of another.
I really should have taken a hint from your dyslexic typing.
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No. 11978
>>11976
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

It transformed into a pseudo mini-UN.

Also, why do you assume that in the case of rising costs of production, nobody will invest into efficient production to undercut their competitors using older methods of production? It has happened many times before. Birmingham remained industrially relevant into the 20th century because of the phenomenon of streamlining production in the face of rising cost, (BSA Small Heath). It's also true of modern production methods which originate in the American dilemma of manpower costing more than raw materials. Instead of driving the price of finished goods through the roof, it just made American industrialists get engineers to develop machinery to work around the new problem, the end result being machinery that is a bit more wasteful in material but requires a much lower manpower investment. If rising cost is the only outcome then modern industry would quite literally not exist.
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No. 11979
>>11977
Projecting parts of my posts with different words and saying something about typing is not an argument at any degree. You compare directly colonalism and same colonial countries today without any logic and historical aspect. Fact that London now doing good and have high standarts of living only proof what I saying about.

In colonial times, for the most part even lead countries have not very high standart of living of averege citizen. They have iternal production and manufacturing - and from colonies they recive only requred materials that they need for this production, so we can call colonies in this time period equivalent of modern 4th world.

During XIX and XX centuries priorities changed - rising quality of life in some minor countries maded it possible to shift production and manufacturing to them - before "colonies" can't hold high manufacturing and production, now they can do it. And this is how I can for best describe what 3rd world is - 3rd world is 4th world countries which have enough high standarts of living to hold a manufacturing and production of goods that requred to 1st world. This way, 1st world can easely remove this neccecery for living production from their countries and rise standarts of living in their countries to much more high level.

But still, there no need for some deep science and heavy think to know most basic things about capitalism - that there should be someone who explote, and someone who exploited. Some sort of boss, a rich man, owner - call him how you want - and peon or worker who work on him. Without sysem will basicly not work - when all people is "owners" who will work in field? And this why untill capitalism exist there will always be 1st world and 3/4th world. Look at your goods arond you - most of them most certanly produced in 3rd world countries and materials in them from 3/4th world countries. This why you can afford this things and have standart of living you have now.

You implying that there some countries that shifted to first world, but majority still in 3th and 4th world. Whole african, major parts of asia and oceania, south america, some eastern europen countries. This is bigger part of world. About how slavery shifted to feodalism and feodalism to capitalism is better read Marx unironically, this is like his main point in his fucking theory.

>>11978
>It transformed into a pseudo mini-UN.
Yeah, and USSR transforemd into CIS with very firendly to each other Ukraine and Russia, Armenia and Azerbajan etc.

>Also, why do you assume that in the case of rising costs of production, nobody will invest into efficient production to undercut their competitors using older methods of production?

Technological progess change capitalism. Each part of economical system is different thought his lifetime of existance, or by another words, we are now in "late cpaitalism" stage as many people call it. There a breaking point - when whole process of manufacturing can be automatised we can achive theoretical communism or what will be after capitalism. Untill times where work of actual human requred to produce live important things at some degree - there will always be "owners", "workers" and process of expluatation, always be more poor and more rich people, always be more poor states and more rich ones. And this system can't be breaked by just "developing" some countries, only how you said by increasing technological progress to point when capitalism will be irrelevant anymore. But this will not happen soon and will not happen immideatly like BOOM and something happened. And current worldwide and social proglems is a symptoms of start of this "shifting" period that will go for decades and decades.
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No. 11981
https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2018/10/aircraft-carrier-damaged-dry-dock-sinks
Infamous "Admiral Kuznetsov" has been damaged as floating dry dock sinks into the waters of the Kola Bay. Reminds me of an event when Russia lost a nuclear-powered missile at sea
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/russias-nuclear-powered-missile-that-putin-claimed-had-infinite-range-is-currently-lost-at-sea.html
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No. 11982
>>11981
You are too late, I heared how this shit floated this news in morning already, you need more enthusiasm and speed of posting bad news from russia.
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No. 11983
>>11979
I'm referring to this statement
>All basic things - from heavy machinery to miscellaneous household items will become as much expensive, as current standarts of living, automaticly reducing standarts of living of whole world back to mid XIX centuary.

Which isn't a likely scenario because high price implies unfilled demand. Even in post-scarcity, people will probably give something extra for extra convenience like faster delivery or something.

If there is demand then firms will attempt to fill that demand to create profit. This has two possible outcomes because not all demand is created equally. The worst case is that the demand is too small to justify investment, this is where you see there not really being mass production of extreme-end luxury items. The price comes from a demand for exclusivity rather than unfilled demand, or the price is highly elastic and held up by low supply rather than high demand in which case it isn't viable to invest in new production because you are contributing to the destruction of your own price point. That situation is profitable if you exist in that niche already, but you do need to be careful not to crash your own price point still. You see this in some forms of commodity trading like diamonds which are injected into the market in smaller numbers than mining scale might indicate in order to maintain the ratio of supply to demand.

The other outcome is that the investigations show new technology can improve production in a few different ways, the most relevant being an improved yield per input of raw material or the ability to find value in former waste product. The second one can take a few forms from just reducing waste of raw materials to shifting waste to more abundant resources and away from rarer/more expensive ones.

If new production methods prove viable, then a firm employing them can enter the market as competition and fill the unfilled demand at a lower price. Because basic household goods are almost always going to be in demand, this is the most likely outcome of the scenario. That's not to say that there is the ability do continuously grow production of something because that's not true, eventually supply will outstrip demand and collapse prices and cause firms to pull out. That's why I look at the problem as finding a way to cut down what is there and not to just make more of it.

>when whole process of manufacturing can be automatised we can achive theoretical communism
To completely cut out manual input from a production cycle and go into post-capital gommunist paradise is so far into science fiction that it's essentially magic and not really part of the equation (it requires intelligent self-replication of parts, intelligent automated resource extraction and logistics etc. as well as the fabled infinite growth to sustain increasingly complex and hungry production systems).
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No. 11984
>>11979
>Fact that London now doing good and have high standarts of living only proof what I saying about.
Not at all, I have overestimated you in assuming you would get the point. The idea is that economical exchanges are not a zero sum game and that gains at one hand do not translate to a loss at another.

>In colonial times, for the most part even lead countries have not very high standart of living of averege citizen.
Yes, that is what I meant with an increase in wealth in what you title "the 4th world" not leading to a lack of wealth in a colonial metropolism. You presenting this as a groundbreaking fact and not something I was alluding to says a lot about your reading comprehension.

>During XIX and XX centuries priorities changed - rising quality of life in some minor countries maded it possible to shift production and manufacturing to them - before "colonies" can't hold high manufacturing and production, now they can do it. And this is how I can for best describe what 3rd world is - 3rd world is 4th world countries which have enough high standarts of living to hold a manufacturing and production of goods that requred to 1st world. This way, 1st world can easely remove this neccecery for living production from their countries and rise standarts of living in their countries to much more high level.
Your idea that the manufacturing or production in colonial land appeared in the XIXth or the XXth century says a lot about the feeble grasp you have of economic history. The first colonial holdings established by Europeans were in no way an attempt to gain access to raw materials, quite the opposite in fact. So I will say that you're off by half a millenia.

>But still, there no need for some deep science and heavy think to know most basic things about capitalism - that there should be someone who explote, and someone who exploited. Some sort of boss, a rich man, owner - call him how you want - and peon or worker who work on him. Without sysem will basicly not work - when all people is "owners" who will work in field?
I'll call him He Who Explotes. The sleight of hand in this post is that you utilize the correct premise that a capitalist society naturally breeds a hierarchical order to smuggle in your crab in a bucket mentality. I'm sure it's easy to prove the natural formations of hierarchies within capitalism, but you'll have a harder time attempting to actually establish the idea that for one to be better off, others must be worse off. If it were the case, economical growth per capita would simply not exist. Poverty levels would have to remain at comparable, if not increasing higher levels over time.

>You implying that there some countries that shifted to first world, but majority still in 3th and 4th world.
Not at all, my very hidden implication is that all nations tend to improve their living standards over time, as they have been for the past centuries.

>About how slavery shifted to feodalism and feodalism to capitalism is better read Marx unironically, this is like his main point in his fucking theory.
Perhaps now you can really activate your noggin and figure out why I specifically referenced those points.

>Each part of economical system is different thought his lifetime of existance, or by another words, we are now in "late cpaitalism" stage as many people call it.
If by "many people" you mean a select group of people of a specific ideology, yes. It is a term with no base in any actual economical doctrine, it is merely what Marxists have called "the current economical climate" since the dawn of Marxism. A suprising long "late period" that seems to have spanned somewhere from 1848, as Engels joined the socialist German rebels to proclaim a socialist Republic while Marx published their call to arms, all the way to today.
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No. 11998
>>11983
>I'm referring to this statement
this is abstract statement in hypotetical situation where with current system for some reason all states on earth become rich and developed automaticly. Of cource, this physically can not happen since this system will not allow it.

>To completely cut out manual input from a production cycle and go into post-capital gommunist paradise is so far into science fiction that it's essentially magic and not really part of the equation (it requires intelligent self-replication of parts, intelligent automated resource extraction and logistics etc. as well as the fabled infinite growth to sustain increasingly complex and hungry production systems).

This hypotectical "communism" is actually more like "etheral goal" to which we will constantly need to follow. And overall mankind slowely, but doing this actually - compare modern capitalism to early one. And I hope that in recent future this will shift enough so at least some capital-constructed elements can be recomed or changed. But this only mine hopes.
However news like this https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/robots-to-produce-robots-for-150-mn-at-china-s-abb-factory-in-shanghai-118102700372_1.html make you think about our corrent technological levle - I think in some degree it not technologies that not enough advancet, but our mentality of unsing this technologies.

>>11984
>Not at all, I have overestimated you in assuming you would get the point.
I don't know what you tried to "overestimate" but london live depend on china, india, african countries, even russia in some degree - it's trades, good, materials all goes from third world countries. England is exploiting 3rd world and there nothing changed in this regard exept things I already pointed out.

>You presenting this as a groundbreaking fact
I presenting this just as fact. When in one zone standarts of living increace enough, production and manufacturing moving to other, less developed states, and low-level production and basic materials in even more poor countries for the most part.

>Your idea that the manufacturing or production in colonial land appeared in the XIXth or the XXth century says a lot about the feeble grasp you have of economic history. The first colonial holdings established by Europeans were in no way an attempt to gain access to raw materials, quite the opposite in fact.
I not sayd anything about first reasons why people even start discovering new lands and build cities in them which depend on core state, this is absoluetly other point. I put your attention to mechanism which role colonies played for it's core states and how their roles changed with coming of new age and new technologies/societies. Slavery-Feudalism-Capitalism have "expluatation" theme in common, and even thought purpose of "worker" and "owner" changed, system remain same. State that poor and that produce - states that consume and that own. One way or another.

>I'm sure it's easy to prove the natural formations of hierarchies within capitalism
It not direct. And "natural formations" not formed by itself from nothing.

>If it were the case, economical growth per capita would simply not exist. Poverty levels would have to remain at comparable, if not increasing higher levels over time.
Why? Technological advantage make more and more things possible. This is actual key why capitalism physically can not exist forever. More effective manufacturing, more complex mechanisms and science allow to make more goods out of less materials and working time. However, an attitude of rich people to poor people only increaces recently Did you hear news that rich people nowdays become so fucking rich? While averege people in 1st world states can count themselfs as "okay" living standart people, rich people and corporations now own so many money and power that even Pharaons can't dream of - and this is most important key element. Not fact that you now now live on one loaf of bread per month, but that majority of capital still in hold of much smaller group of individulas. If theoreticly use their money and cover on averege, all people on earth can get decent level of live standart already, with current technology and resourses.

>Not at all, my very hidden implication is that all nations tend to improve their living standards over time, as they have been for the past centuries.
Technological progress allow to improve it in general. But some countries developing very very slow, while some fast. And ones that developing fast do it by exploiting ones that still far behind. And in some way, building overall situation that way that this countries will evolve even slower.

>If by "many people" you mean a select group of people of a specific ideology, yes. It is a term with no base in any actual economical doctrine, it is merely what Marxists have called "the current economical climate" since the dawn of Marxism. A suprising long "late period" that seems to have spanned somewhere from 1848, as Engels joined the socialist German rebels to proclaim a socialist Republic while Marx published their call to arms, all the way to today.
Capitalism not stay same over time. There no just magical "shift" when boom and one economical structure become another. All constantly evolving and current capitalism, even when it is capitalism by it's core, nowdays much much more different. Look at most europen states - they will be all called "socialist" states 100 years ago. Imagine time of Industrial revolution, when workers has no any rights, was in condition more close to feudal tier slaves, where children worked like 10 hours per day at heave machinery production and look even at your country nowdays.

Most iternal economy is build around servises, absoluetly majority of production and materials is imported from 3/4th world countries. Workers have hell lot of rights, all humans have giant amount of rights and living standarts. Media corporations is one of the most important economy basis. This is what late stage capitalism called. By "late" I don't say that it will end soon - current socity too generate and technologies not too much to actualy move to anything currently. By "late" I say that we shfted throught early and mediaum stages of it already.

In сonclusion two statements:
1.Economical and social system constantly evolving, like sun moving from morning to evening every day, capitalism stage constantly passing and changing depend on current technology level. There is no "one day" change from one system to another - there will be no any kind of "revolution" or just boom, it something that happen even today slowely, and something that actually start happen from birth of capitalism.
2.End of expluatation and equal or nearly equal living standarts in whole word impossible at current stage of economical system and social construction. Throught it will be possible in future when it evolved enough and for the most part dropped majority of capitalism key points, when they become unnececery thanks to tecnology.
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No. 12001
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79 kB, 600 × 308
>>11998
>I don't know what you tried to "overestimate" but london live depend on china, india, african countries, even russia in some degree - it's trades, good, materials all goes from third world countries
Wrong.

>Technological progress allow to improve it in general. But some countries developing very very slow, while some fast. And ones that developing fast do it by exploiting ones that still far behind. And in some way, building overall situation that way that this countries will evolve even slower.
Wrong.

It's impressive that the only two falsifiable claims you post are wrong. Given that these premises wrong, I will refrain from wasting time with your conclusions.
>>
No. 12003
>>12001
He's correct
>materials
That is only accounting for finished product on your graph. To make a cellphone it's getting raw materials from places like Africa and South America. It's then being assembled in some place like say South Korea or Japan. It doesn't matter where you're getting the end product from because you're still relying on a complex trade network. I mean, you don't think Cadburry is importing cacao from Germany do you?
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No. 12004
145 kB, 1200 × 530
114 kB, 964 × 559
>>12001
Map that show majority of import from china and other countries which in their production use third world materials and manufacturing

And map that showing rate of growing of GDP, not actual GDP.

You know why lybia have so much GROW? Because after civil war it now like on level of FUCKING ZERO and like one day without mass murder for this country is already huge impovment.

And only two words in post "wrong" so I basycly has no anything to answer on, sadly.
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No. 12007
53 kB, 740 × 468
201 kB, 1237 × 867
38 kB, 423 × 306
>>12004
>Map that show majority of import from china and other countries which in their production use third world materials and manufacturing
All nations used third world materials and manufacturing. What you are saying is China and other countries. I'm not even sure if you've read the image properly, if what you take from it is "China and others".
The large majority of British imports, from raw resources to consumer products come from within the EU.
You seem to shift the point to "the UK trades with the third world" whereas your original point to which I replied was:
>I don't know what you tried to "overestimate" but london live depend on china, india, african countries, even russia in some degree - it's trades, good, materials all goes from third world countries
"Trades, good, materials". All of which primarily come from the European Union as opposed to your claim that it's all from third world countries.
I assume from here you will claim that whatever first world countries produce come from third world countries, so it's a moot point anyways.

>And map that showing rate of growing of GDP, not actual GDP.
Because your original claim was:
>Technological progress allow to improve it in general. But some countries developing very very slow, while some fast. And ones that developing fast do it by exploiting ones that still far behind. And in some way, building overall situation that way that this countries will evolve even slower.
Would this not be measured in growth rate? Unless you think a growth rate is inferior to a GDP per capita man in establishing that non-developed countries "evolve even slower".
Once again to attempt to shift your point from a claim that developing nations grow slower than developed nations, to the obvious statement that first world countries are richer than third world countries.

>You know why lybia have so much GROW?
An incredible case of selective sight. I like your style.

>>12003
>That is only accounting for finished product on your graph.
It accounts for all trade.
>To make a cellphone it's getting raw materials from places like Africa and South America. It's then being assembled in some place like say South Korea or Japan. It doesn't matter where you're getting the end product from because you're still relying on a complex trade network.
Indeed you are relying on a complex trade network that involves several moving parts, all the more why it is idiotic to claim that such a network is merely a predatory system that syphons wealth off of third world countries, and that any wealth disparity is due to the existence of such a system.
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No. 12008
>>11998
And still in that hypothetical situation it doesn't work out because of how market forces operate.

And no, that article doesn't even resemble a micron of the technology required for post-scarcity production. When those robots are self-maintaining and able to, in real time, communicate with other entirely automated factories to produce replacement parts and also communicate with automated resource extraction and automated transportation systems all of which are themselves doing the same thing to self-maintain and/or repair, that's when you get something that enables you to tackle the actual problem that the post-capital theory runs into. The problem of infinite growth.

Capital =/= money. When you do someone a favour, that's an exchange of capital. Just by existing you are indeed creating some form of capital either in economic terms of the value of your skills in enterprise or in the form of social capital. Capital is essentially abstract (usually, but not always, economic) value. Let's assume everything eventually becomes '''''free''''', as in it does not exist as capital. Then consumption becomes assumed because there is no opportunity cost in partaking of it. Assuming production can keep up, then it needs to grow infinitely large because so long as there is some there and it has no barrier to entry, it is economically rational to take more. How do you grow anything infinitely large? Assuming you can do so, how do you sustain infinitely large industry with finitely large resources? Let alone every branch of the economy as it would be in post-capital theory since everything would be '''''free'''''?

To me it seems more like a dystopian hellhole that probably requires some kind of retardedly oppressive state to function by arbitrarily limiting the actions of rational consumers rather than addressing the actual problem of attempting infinite growth. From where I'm standing, it seems less like something to strive for and more for something to run the opposite direction from.
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No. 12014
92 kB, 960 × 718
2,9 MB, 4440 × 2827
>>12007
>Would this not be measured in growth rate? Unless you think a growth rate is inferior to a GDP per capita man in establishing that non-developed countries "evolve even slower".
So you implying that grow rate always linear progression? If so, fastet grow GDP countris should be ahead of 1st world soon! But Lybia - which is best exaple of thing you showed will never in near like 50 even closely can achive level of any EU country. And absolute majority of 3rd/4th world countris will never go even close to 1st world in current system. Let's see, how much evolved and more developed France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Britian trought XIX-XX centuries.
And how much evolved for example, central african republic? Or let's check condition of life in some "most speedy frowing GDP" countries. What it was on your map - Lybia and Ethiopia? How much this countries changed throught same centuries?
This map is absolute waste - "speed of increace if GDP per one year" is absolute crap that means basicly nothing exept fact that Lybia and Syria now in deepest shit possible.

>"Trades, good, materials". All of which primarily come from the European Union as opposed to your claim that it's all from third world countries.
Another set of pictures that means absoluetly nothing like your previous ones will not make your imaginary world come true. Some parts of Food which was important only before industrial revolution and even most of this "food" created from imported materials and Coal imports majority of which directly from third world - Russia, Colombia and South Africa.

And now back to reality - on maps like this that show much more of how this world work. Look at first map - which shows from where most important for ecenomy materials come from. All things that around it - I doubt that Portugal or EU have hell lot of metal, gas, oil, anything. You even chopped almost all your woods from times of fucking roman empire. Second map show creal majority of what countries export. Look at majority of European countries - they do high tech production, Planes, Helicopters, Spacecrafts. Of cource it was done from electronics, major technical parts, and all important things from third world countries, and raw materials from countries that in first picture. Look at other 1st world countries - like USA. Refined petrolium - you know what it mean? That they buy raw oil for dirt cheap, make it proper gazoline on their high tech factories and then sell it for same countries for hell lot of money. USA did this with Venezuela, as most clear example.

And now basicly imagine that god have mercy and whole EU will be teleported into some kind of limbo when you will be cut from imported goods from india, china, russia, arabic countries and central azia and africa. You know what will happen? You will fucking die immideatly. EU can not hold economy without even some part of this imports. You can't build a fucking spacecraft when you has no acces even to iron ore and petrolium. You can't make great food production withot importing trillions tons of chemicals every year. And even high quality production - most of it outside EU. Look at motherboard of your computer. Look at your smartphone. Look at your fucking table lamp - I heavely doubt that there will be "produced in europe" makings on 95% of them.

And answer to this is

>idiotic to claim that such a network is merely a predatory system that syphons wealth off of third world countries

Yes, this is, and you need to live in some kind of imagienary world to doubt such thing. You move production to third world countris because production there is cheaper - people poor and has no rights, so they can build and manufacture same things but cheaper. And you need them to remain poor - you need poor people that has no rights because with them you can have cheaper goods and materials and your economy can work.

It is easy - buy raw petrolium/ore/gas whatever for dirt cheap, then sell for this poor countries computers, gazoline, cars, basicly every goods that they can't produce by themselfs for much more money. And this countries need this goods so they can at least try to be on some modern level, grow their GDP for at least some degree - so they even take credits to buy this things in hope they can pay for you by selling more of this raw materials but they can't. It is like full circle when "slave" always remain "slave" and "lord" always have more money and aloways much more advanced and will be.

This happen in mine country too - I see how much things russia sell for nothing - gas, oil, metal, wood - I see how ships with raw materials shipping to your happy europe or for other 3rd world countries that from it can produce shit for europe and USA and other 1st world. And same time prices on anything high as hell - petrolium increases every week, in shops and stores products cost like food is made of gold or their quality worse that rat food. Today I seen video how very old babushka in village can't even afford wood to have heat for winter and need to take credit to not die in winter - IN FUCKING ONE OF THE MOST BIGGEST OIL AND GAS EXPORTER COUNTRY. And our current goveremnt only use this situation to take moneys for themself and get the hell out of here to live in yes - fucking europe. ANd europe still support this criminals, even when they do dangerous shit, they still allow them buy houses and property on stolen money because Pootine and his company is what europe need - dudes that will keep things as they are - poor and weak russia that can sale materials for dirt cheap.

Creation of 3rd world with more high level manufacturing give this countries some hope - now when they producing cars and computers. But in some degree this hope may be illusional - import of such things place 1st world even in more difficult situation, but same time give even bigger boost for evolution. Some european countries already become almost Heaven level while in others people dies without food.
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No. 12015
>>12008
>And no, that article doesn't even resemble a micron of the technology required for post-scarcity production.
Don't so sceptical about that. In recent 20 years information and computer technologies evolved to degree no one even can imagine 30 years ago. We already reaching point of developing of actual quantum computers, we all have so much advanced tech it very hard affected our society at deepest cores of it's existing. Current world events showing this - look how society changed with modern information production and acces. This is actual symmptoms of what was theoreticly predicted before and this is impossible to just close eyes on this events.

>Capital =/= money.
I know what capital is.
Ability of making requred goods free - is not means make them infinant. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" - basicly means that you will not need "have capital" to have acces to current level of quality of life. Your acces to goods still will have it's limits - but in levels of this limits you can by default afford it. This is basicly same thing as when in modern world of capitalistic-socialistic mixed systems old people recive payments from their taxes which they earned by woring whole their life. But since there not neccecery to work anymore, you will have your "payments" just like this from fact that you exist. After achivment of post-capital society main goal will be increase this limits of avalible goods.

And if imagine start of post capitalism society as number 1 we now somewhere in 0.2 or 0.3

>something to strive for and more for something to run the opposite direction from.
This is not opposite, but transition to full communism. Currently state enforcing many things, and using "capital" as instrument of regulation. In post-capital society it will be direct state work of control how much everyone get. It will no more be instrument but kinds main goal of state. It something that was attempted in some european countries buy for my thought it is too early for that - all people have by default current medium level of their "capital". If you want more than this capital - you can earn it by working. Work become not something that you need to do by default to basicly survive like nowdays or live at decent level - you already will live at decent level and will work only to live on even more good level. There we already go back to "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and to previous statement - that there will be no fast transition on revolution. Just will time you will notice that more adn more people live only on some kind of allowance which by default will be pretty high. At one point absolute majority will live like that but economics will still work thanks to our technological progress.
Difference between early and current capitalism is same as between current capitalism and this transitional period or true socialism or call it whatever you want - but we evolving and you can easely track this evolution just by looking back at history
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No. 12016
26 kB, 480 × 360
>>12015
Except that if you can work to get more, then that implies personal capital exists which means that it's not a post-capital system.

If something is truly post-capital then you have two options. The first is to figure out infinite growth because if something can simply be had, then people will take it. When they see more of it available for nothing then they'll take more and more of that product must be produced to fill demand that only exists because it is '''''free'''''. If you have a free system then you immediately hit infinite growth problems.

The second is to have the kind of dictatorial shithole that Orwell could only dream about because you need to keep tabs on the purchasing habits of every single person in that society. "Halt citizen, you have met your daily quota of basic supplies, return to your abode immediately or you will be incarcerated" doesn't sound utopian at all, even if it is '''''free'''''. If you go with the comrade-dictator option then you just get people clamouring endlessly for more free shit that has to come from somewhere (what if it is on someone's private property and they don't want to let you take it? Do we execute and steal from people for daring to not hand over their things without any recompense?)

>This is basicly same thing as when in modern world of capitalistic-socialistic mixed systems old people recive payments from their taxes which they earned by woring whole their life.
Is it taxation if the group of robbers let you cast a vote as to whether they plunder your wallet? I still call that theft personally. If you want charitable distribution, give away your own shit and keep your hands off of what is other peoples' property.

>In post-capital society it will be direct state work of control how much everyone get.
Sounds Orwellian to me. If we can't trust people to manage their own affairs in open market, why do we trust the same people with absolute power over who gets to eat? Seems really open to abuse. Like I said, this reads like a dystopia that I'd want absolutely nothing to do with. I don't care what you call it, or whether it's gradual or not. The state should never be invested with that much power (or any at all tbh).
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No. 12018
>>12016
You will never be rid of this because you will never be rid of the nature of man. It is the nature of man to want to show off, to boast, to one up his fellows, and at times for some to shit on their other fellows. It does not matter that most people in the West are generally well fed. It does not matter their material comforts. They still want more and more. They are never satisfied. They are like the alcoholic or drug addict for whom the world itself is not made of enough intoxication.

So long as men want to step on each other you will never, ever solve the twin evils of misery and want. They will always compete with each other and trying to push each other's faces down into the mud. As shit a system as Capitalism is it works primarily by recognizing and embracing the evil, villainy, and tyranny that is so central to the heart of man. This is why Communism failed, not that Communism ever strove for much of anything ultimately anyway. The nature of man was never changed. There was still a Politburo. There was still some scum shitting on the head of another, down to the officers, and to the average grunt beating and dragging a man off to gulags. The worst error these systems made was in assuming material happiness was even that relevant. The same person could become a billionaire, and what will they do? Show off to their friends and women and compete with other billionaires, then suffer monumental butthurt because some other billionaire slighted him or he felt small or self conscious compared to another. You could give each man a planet to rule, and they will immediately begin counting mountain heights to boast of who has the greatest land area or greatest equatorial width.

These people are miserable because they are miserable inside. This is part of what so many philosophical and mystical traditions attempted to address, and partly why the materialist stand in--the therapist--is such a total failure, because it does not address the inherent need and frailty of the man himself and his position in the universe.

Nor would it necessarily be even wise to "treat" such a thing, as it is that very nature which has led us to both our greatest fortunes as a species and our worst unspeakable miseries.
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No. 12023
81 kB, 718 × 745
158 kB, 739 × 618
>>12014
>So you implying that grow rate always linear progression?
No, I'm not sure where you're pulling this out of.
My point is that the first world countries aren't the ones experiencing the fastest growth, it's actually countries that oppressed and "falling behind" in your assesment.

>Look at other 1st world countries - like USA. Refined petrolium - you know what it mean? That they buy raw oil for dirt cheap, make it proper gazoline on their high tech factories and then sell it for same countries for hell lot of money. USA did this with Venezuela, as most clear example.
I assume this is how you explain Venezuela's abismal poverty.
The opposite is true in fact, the US imports near to no oil from Venezuela. In fact, the US produces more oil than it imports.

>Yes, this is, and you need to live in some kind of imagienary world to doubt such thing. You move production to third world countris because production there is cheaper - people poor and has no rights, so they can build and manufacture same things but cheaper. And you need them to remain poor - you need poor people that has no rights because with them you can have cheaper goods and materials and your economy can work.
Then why is the opposite true, why is that wherever first world countries move their production to, these countries experience a rapid wealth growth, loss of poverty and better living conditions?

>And now basicly imagine that god have mercy and whole EU will be teleported into some kind of limbo when you will be cut from imported goods from india, china, russia, arabic countries and central azia and africa. You know what will happen? You will fucking die immideatly.
Yes, immediate death will come.
In reality, our economic will experience a deep recession as will also happen to all countries who are then unable to trade with the first world. I'd say the later are at a higher risk of 'fucking die immideatly'.

>This happen in mine country too - I see how much things russia sell for nothing - gas, oil, metal, wood - I see how ships with raw materials shipping to your happy europe or for other 3rd world countries that from it can produce shit for europe and USA and other 1st world. And same time prices on anything high as hell - petrolium increases every week, in shops and stores products cost like food is made of gold or their quality worse that rat food. Today I seen video how very old babushka in village can't even afford wood to have heat for winter and need to take credit to not die in winter - IN FUCKING ONE OF THE MOST BIGGEST OIL AND GAS EXPORTER COUNTRY.
Yes, it is true. The reason why Russia is a piss poor dystopia is because of it trading with the west. You've figured it out.
You are the perfect synthesis between the average Russian vata and the last remnants of sovok mentality.

As a thought experiment, what would you think if the first world all decided to cease all trade with, say, Bangladesh?
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No. 12024
>>12023
That feel when Obama was helping us achieve energy independence and yet another Republican retard is forcing is in bed with the fucking Saudis
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No. 12025
>>12024
I'm not sure to what degree energy independency would be a good thing for the US. At a time in which the US was far more reliant on imported oil, the OPEC embargo didn't significant harm the US economy. Most of the problem was the overreaction of the US public.
Also, I don't know if extra geopolitical independency is worth the millions spent in tariffs.
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No. 12034
112 kB, 800 × 564
>>12016
>Except that if you can work to get more, then that implies personal capital exists which means that it's not a post-capital system.
I from start called it transitional system, which allow us move from capitralism to different society - and this transition system is thing that slowely coming in recent decades.

>If something is truly post-capital then you have two options. The first is to figure out infinite growth because if something can simply be had, then people will take it.
Current capitalism system instead of "evel goverment regulation" you make so much scary in this post implying on system where people have "physical" limitation of their amount of money. But this system already slowly dropping since in most advanced states with each decade there is more social parts - again, most european states are heavely social-orientated. With years more and more money people get not from thier direct work, but as payments from goverment of one way or another. And number of it's payments already regulated by goverment. So there no actual change in politics in this regard - just without absolute need of working for absolute majority of population, goverment role even decreased. All this complex problems of unimployment rate, regulation of monopolies etc. will not be neccecery anymore.

So if this goverment system is Orwell - so now we in triple Orwell :/
By culture and information we clother nowdays to Huxley and Ideocracy than Orwell tbh

>>12018
>This is why Communism failed, not that Communism ever strove for much of anything ultimately anyway. The nature of man was never changed. There was still a Politburo.
We are not of 4chan unironically call soviet union "communism" - what the hell, who even forced this? Official soviet doctrine never said that it even close to achive communism, even thought it was main goal. USSR presented itself as "socialistic transitional state" but in reality absoluetly failed on this regard too. Technological and economical level of country not allowed neccecery things that requred for this transitional economy - it was just capitalist country where goverment become same time absolute monopolist corporation without any competitors. And this system broked because this "corporation" become ineffective due to poo iternal regulation of goods and capital. Most modern european states more close to "communism" than soviet union ever was.

>You will never be rid of this because you will never be rid of the nature of man.
Nature of man is just good old Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Satysfying this needs in this order is key and goal of our civilisations and all economical systems from tribal sharing, to slavery, to capitalism and theoretical communism in one way or another satysfied some of this needs or at least tried. If you view "nature of man" only as this - ask question to yourself why we have now so many heavy social states and not live by "jungle law".

>>12023
>I'm not sure where you're pulling this out of.
basicly, there
>My point is that the first world countries aren't the ones experiencing the fastest growth, it's actually countries that oppressed and "falling behind" in your assesment.
You say fact that because some countries that far far behind have some GDP growth means that they developing more fast and will with same speed achive level of developed countries, which is absoluetly not. And this why GDP per year increase maps is absolute waste. Real interesting things when you talke 4th world country and 1st world and place an attitude between this two countries GDP and ecenomy thought centuary. For example some african country and some european country.

>I assume this is how you explain Venezuela's abismal poverty.
Fault from fall from 3rd world to 4th world is on Venesuela goverment. However fact that venezuella ended with such goverment and in such situation is of cource because this country in position of "exploited".

>The opposite is true in fact, the US imports near to no oil from Venezuela. In fact, the US produces more oil than it imports.
I don't know what reverse logic happens in your mind when instead of Venezuella exports you use USA import/export maps. There is diogramm of actual Venezuella exports in 2011. Biggest part of their oil exports go into USA - they basicly depend on them. They has no ability to clean their oil from impurities and produce high quality petrolium so they salling their raw oil with sulfur for dirt cheap to USA. In this position this country has no even thoretical ability and money to build modern oil industry to themselfs export high quality gazoline and many manufactured materials, so they basicly in "economical trap".

And "shitty goverment that use situation" - which you can see in absolute majority of 3rd world and 4th world countries is actual part of system of expluatation. Since society undeveloped and poor it have shitty goveremnt - country can't become rich because their dependency on 1st world countries - shitty goverments made this situation even worse - and there we have full circle. So majority of 3rd world countries in ethernal Limbo. This way 1st world controls 3rd world countries, unlike it did directly control over 4th world back in colonial times.

>Then why is the opposite true, why is that wherever first world countries move their production to, these countries experience a rapid wealth growth, loss of poverty and better living conditions?
Shifting from 4th world to 3rd world gived opportunities to countries, but for absolute majority of happenings they remain in third world and dependency on 1st world as I discribed previously. Fact that there is production of parts for mobile phones instead of bananas still remain contry in same dependency over other. even kindergarden kid can understand how it work -
1st world country A producing Medium Quality level products from materials from 3rd world country B
Then, 1st world country A shifted producing of Medium quality level for 3rd country B. This increased country B live conditions to degree of minimal possible for production on this level.
But, with no need of production on medium level, country A can easely shift to High quality production and be still one or much more steps ahead from country B.
And whenever country B will recive more high quality production from country A, country A automaticly by using country B shifting one new level.


And this is infinity circle... untill some point when whole current capitalism system slowely start replacing for transitional socialistic ones, there things may will get interesting in next 100 years, we will see.

>You are the perfect synthesis between the average Russian vata and the last remnants of sovok mentality.
"sovok mentality" is fact that people remember, that once this country was superpower. It easy to convince some dude from central africa to mine metals for 3 dollars per month because he never had something better, but there people know that only 30 years we was not just country-slave who sale oil and gas for nothing to the west. Sadly people in general too dumb what to do in this situation and currently country controlled by typical third world explotion-goverment.

>As a thought experiment, what would you think if the first world all decided to cease all trade with, say, Bangladesh?
Thier life-quality level will drop on this amount, on which 1st world support this country to make there possible production that 1st world need from it. However if we isolate portugal, it will drop on same level as bangladesh will drop and it be much bigger fall, since support in bangladesh and level of portugal dependency from 3rd world is absoluetly different sizes.
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No. 12035
>>12024
US production is linked to the economic viability of fracking wells that require a given barrel price. This creates a pendulum effect as the fracking revolution dramatically pushed down the price per barrel but in doing so caused many wells to go bust hurting production.

It has very little to do with which monkey is in oval office. Mineral rights are a state issue. Wherever it is you're getting information on the world needs to stop as it's hopelessly out of date and ideologically compromised.
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No. 12039
79 kB, 1024 × 683
>>12034
>You say fact that because some countries that far far behind have some GDP growth means that they developing more fast and will with same speed achive level of developed countries, which is absoluetly not.
I'm not sure what you mean by this sentence. I'll take it as an implication that I believe that the current GDP growth rates will maintain themselves, whilst 3rd world countries reach first world status. This is not what I posted, but I'm sure something could have been lost in translation.
Your premise was, once again, that poorer economies grow smaller than wealthier economies, and that the gap will only widen. GDP growth maps and GDP projections fly in the face of this, so you decide to prove your increasingly hopeless premise by attempting to strawman my point and change the claim being discussed.

>However fact that venezuella ended with such goverment and in such situation is of cource because this country in position of "exploited".
Do explain how Venezuela's position of "exploited" forced them into adopting the measures as they did.

>I don't know what reverse logic happens in your mind when instead of Venezuella exports you use USA import/export maps.
Your shifting premises are beggining to make this tiresome. You initially tell me that the Americans make their oil wealth from "exploiting" poor countries (e.g. purchasing their raw products) and then reselling it back to them. I post a graph that shows that the large majority of US oil imports and consumption do not in any way come primarily from trade world countries. You decide to post an export map of Venezuela in which 40% of the exports go towards the US, and accuse me of "reverse logic".

>Since society undeveloped and poor it have shitty goveremnt - country can't become rich because their dependency on 1st world countries - shitty goverments made this situation even worse - and there we have full circle
>country can't become rich because their dependency on 1st world countries
So because these nations are dependent on trade with 1st world countries, they are perpetually stuck in poverty? One wonders how any nation would rise their economical status, since from these premises it would seem that it is impossible for a country to reach the status of a developed nation.
How do you believe that underdeveloped nations became developed within this "current system"?

>even kindergarden kid can understand how it work
>1st world country A producing Medium Quality level products from materials from 3rd world country B
>Then, 1st world country A shifted producing of Medium quality level for 3rd country B. This increased country B live conditions to degree of minimal possible for production on this level.
>But, with no need of production on medium level, country A can easely shift to High quality production and be still one or much more steps ahead from country B.
>And whenever country B will recive more high quality production from country A, country A automaticly by using country B shifting one new level.
You can mark me down as a level below kindergarden kid for I am sincerely unable to make any sense of this magnum opus of yours.
You'll see me in such a manner, whereas I will remain convinced you truly are a SU vatnik, whose views are primarily driven by being in a broken country, which used to be oh so great.

Which, hopefully, can be had as an agreed upon, acceptable, conclusion to this conversation.
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No. 12053
>>12034
> and this transition system is thing that slowely coming in recent decades
All I see is a transition from free individuals to comfortable slaves. If free food is enough for you to lock a collar around your neck, that's your business but you can count me out.

>But this system already slowly dropping since in most advanced states with each decade there is more social parts - again, most european states are heavely social-orientated.
And I'm of the opinion that government is an unnecessary evil. The fact that they're already disgustingly empowered doesn't change that.

>So there no actual change in politics in this regard - just without absolute need of working for absolute majority of population, goverment role even decreased.
And I would like a change in politics towards individual liberty and voluntary society, go figure. In your hypothetical, what happens if that minority that does 'have' to work decides that they don't want to do all the work so that everybody else can just laze about? Are they forced to work because they're state property? If the benefits they can buy are great enough to warrant them just raising their asking price, then how is it any different from a capitalist society with rich and poor? It doesn't help the theoretical 'transition' in the slightest. And no, a system where most of the population survives at the whim of the state deciding to send out the dole does not reduce the state. It makes it gargantuan as more and more aspects of free enterprise are rolled into centralised tyranny.

>if this goverment system is Orwell - so now we in triple Orwell
Let's flip that around. At least right now I'm not on government rations and they're not making sure that I don't get more than my 'fair' share as arbitrarily decided by some incompetent fuckwit in the halls of power. That's triple Orwell. Governments now operate and, are continuing to improve, the surveillance state (funny how this coincides with your 'we're moving towards the transitional system'). If anything instead of yet another failed experiment in statism we should at the very least practice subsidaryism and remove power from higher echelons and put it in very low to the ground systems so that individuals hold the power in their own neighbourhoods and can't force their views on others.

Also relevant Sam Adams is relevant.

>The Utopian schemes of levelling, and a community of goods, are as visionary and impracticable, as those which vest all property in the Crown, are arbitrary, despotic, and in our government unconstitutional. Now, what property can the colonists be conceived to have, if their money may be granted away by others, without their consent?
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No. 12054
>>12053
>If free food is enough for you to lock a collar around your neck, that's your business but you can count me out.
If you are not willing to work for food, feel free to starve to death.
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No. 12057
>>12054
It's not an absolute. Charity is a perfectly fine practice, virtuous even. Thing is that Charity is what it is because it is voluntary (consent). Government handouts are not charity, they're distribution of plunder. Charity is when one person gives someone meals because they're friends or their religion drives them to believe in acts of giving etc. Enabling a government to take from another through coercion/extortion and give to you is just hiring a protection racket to shake down the neighbourhood which violates peoples' right to property and liberty.
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No. 12060
>>12039
>you decide to prove your increasingly hopeless premise by attempting to strawman my point and change the claim being discussed.
Once again, I said to you thins thing - at each GDP level it is different effort and amount of developing requred to increase it. If you have absoluetly nothing exept one single coin and then you have two cloins it may count as double GDW growth. Very oversimplistic example but I don't know how to show it for you otherwise.

>You decide to post an export map of Venezuela in which 40% of the exports go towards the US, and accuse me of "reverse logic".
This picture cleary showing dependency of venezuella to USA. USA is country that by itself can produce Refined petrolium in huge amount, which is not RAW material, when Venezuella obviosly has no such ability because it has no initial capital to do so. And since prices on refined petrolium is much more high than on raw heavy crude oil, which obviously Venezuellian economy requred too, Venezuella can't physically make enough money out of oil even if they have better goverment.

>One wonders how any nation would rise their economical status, since from these premises it would seem that it is impossible for a country to reach the status of a developed nation.
It not absolutley impossible, but quite difficult and in most case matter of luck, random events or global things like world wars. You may compare to to leveling niside social structure in medival - there was cases when pesant become king. But well.. not oftent.

>You'll see me in such a manner, whereas I will remain convinced you truly are a SU vatnik, whose views are primarily driven by being in a broken country, which used to be oh so great.
You continue calling me "vatnik" because you fid this word funny and has no real arguments against what I saying, even after how I described soviet union in previous post in answer to american poster.

>Which, hopefully, can be had as an agreed upon, acceptable, conclusion to this conversation.
Whatever you can think about. I kinda tired making this long posts of doom convinced someone who live in first world, that all things on streets and in your home not appearing from nothing by some sort of magic, and when you live in post-industry society you still need industry and expluatation somewhere to make this system work. And that it is physically impossible with current system to have "post-industrial" society everywhere because you need heavy cheap industry. I guess you was teached that everything just appear as it is, which reminds me of famous "if they have no bread let them eat cake".

>>12053
>what happens if that minority that does 'have' to work decides that they don't want to do all the work so that everybody else can just laze about?
Looks like you absoluetly not get the main basis when this society will be achived.
We already in society that you trying to describe in this post as "evil future" - we already live in. You forced to work so some other people can have social benefits in some amount. Meme of breaking point that I describe - when you can make decent level of life without anyone inside dedicated country at least (socialism in dedicated country, sounds familiar if you know some late 20s history X---DDD) can absoluetly not work. Economy and technological advantage can make possible to live of all people without anyone actually working in physical work, remaining only some amount of servises. This will basicly be same thing as now, but as was metioned in other post here, you will not starve to death without actually doing anything.

>At least right now I'm not on government rations and they're not making sure that I don't get more than my 'fair' share as arbitrarily decided by some incompetent fuckwit in the halls of power.
All social payments is limited by some amount, but this payments recived only some amount of people. In this system all people recive this payments by default. Not neccecery only in form of money - absoluetly free medecine, transportation and some amount of free servises and resourses per monts may be other option.
May put this more simple -
Pure capitalism:
You not work or not own - you will dead from starvation
Socialistic system:
You not work - you recive fixed amount of things. You work - you have more if you want it.

Modern economy of post industrial society allowing to make such thing possible at least inside most developed countries, which already start shifting to this society and by exploiting 3rd/4th world can transfer to this even before technology will make it possible for 100% of mankind.
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No. 12061
>>12060
>Looks like you absoluetly not get the main basis when this society will be achived.
Looks like you absolutely do not get the main basis of why it's a fucking terrible idea to give any government that much power.

>when you can make decent level of life without anyone inside dedicated country at least (socialism in dedicated country, sounds familiar if you know some late 20s history X---DDD) can absoluetly not work.

If it has to be an international thing, what happens when someone refuses? You've dodged this question every time its been posed. You just assume everybody will agree with your 'utopia'. Do you become an aggressor to enslave people into your society against their will because you know better than them as to what they want?

>In this system all people recive this payments by default. Not neccecery only in form of money - absoluetly free medecine, transportation and some amount of free servises and resourses per monts may be other option.

So basically 'it will work because it will work' and all the problems of resource scarcity will be solved by socialist pixie dust and everything will be free'? In that case, you don't get it at all and in fact it is anarcho-libertarianism will solve all those problems in the best manner because it's so great that it just werks and if you disagree you just don't understand it.
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No. 12063
>>12061
>Looks like you absolutely do not get the main basis of why it's a fucking terrible idea to give any government that much power.
It is already have this power and even much more. It already do 99% of social regulations and havely economics regulations. It already enforced law and enforced it's protection. We not live in anarchy.

>If it has to be an international thing, what happens when someone refuses?
Refuse what? Take their payments? Well, suicidal people who want starve to death is usually since XVIII cetuary taken to some kind of asylums.

If you want say about "other country do not want work on different countries to make their life better" - we already live in this world and this what I trying to describe to portugal poster for great amount of posts already. There are 4th and 3rd world countries that depend on 1st world. By exploiting them, 1st world increace it's socium and quality of life.

Basicly, not only great capital owners inside 1st world countris become "lords", but by lowering inequality inside this countries they become "lord" by itself. When at colonisation times, before 3rd world, colony was a resource - and inside country there was classes, poor ones and rich ones. Nowdays all roles of poor classes shifting to 3rd world countries, so in future inside "developed country" will be no major inequality and all people can have their basic income without working, since whole country and whole it's population become on most high of capitalist pyramid, whole all other classes moved to less advanced countries.

This is very basic explanation but I dunno how to say it another way because since begibibg you show non understandment of what I trying to say, convincing they I talking about true communism, or world revolution, or forcing everyone to work or things like that which I never said.
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No. 12066
>>12025
No I meant that dumbfuck trump is undoing a lot of what we achieved. He's putting us back in bed with the Saudis after Obama was helping extricate us.
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No. 12067
>>12053
The worst abuses of the surveillance state are happening happening through corporations, not governments
Well except for China
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No. 12068
>>12063
>Refuse what?
Your entire system. You yourself say it doesn't spring out of nowhere. What happens when people say to fuck off when you're trying to come in and redistribute all their stuff? What if something breaks and needs a mechanic to repair it but nobody wants to do it? Don't just assume that it's the predetermined end of history because you think it should be. So asylums are your answer? Just lock up everybody who disagrees with your idea because they're 'insane'? And no, even genuinely suicidal people shouldn't be locked up. You don't own them. They are not your property. You have zero right to decide what they can and cannot do to their own person. If they fail, they have the right to try again if they so wish.

Also, I've said on multiple occasions that I don't like the current system. Seems you don't understand what I'm saying and just want me to be the evil capitalist man in a top hat. Your discussion about current economics is not relevant when our entire discussion has been about the non-functional economics of your 'transitional' paradise.

Also, you've never made a single point about how any of this seemingly endless bounty of free stuff is going to come from beyond vague 'the technology is right around the corner' or handwaving it as 'it'll just function, nobody will have to work because reasons', so of course I don't understand your 'vision'. All I'm getting is watching too much Star Trek where everything can be made from nothing at the press of a button. If that's your point, that when we manage to break fundamental rules of physics to just make things with magic we can have this society, then it's not even something worth considering at this point.
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No. 12069
>>12067
It's an intertwined system. The domestic intelligence budget goes mostly towards private contractors but these are only 'private' in a technical sense. Often they have very close ties to the political elite or are even run by former members. These are not firms that exist in a natural, healthy market and only really exist because of the incestuous relationship with the state and/or the state backing them up because they're useful. Google wouldn't be able to do a lot of what they do without the state ruling it legal for them to do, but illegal for concerned groups to run them out of town with pitchforks.

Even a lot of true private-sector repression is tied closely to government. Like how earlier in the year a lot of independent anti-establishment news providers, and I mean proper ones that were using on-the-ground journalists in Syria and such and not infowars style ones were labelled by the Atlantic Institute as putinbots and Facebook used that list to terminate a lot of their pages which was the best way for them to spread their stories on a decent scale and in a convenient manner for their readers.

While many private or semi-private entities may be the practitioners of surveillance, the ones funding it and enabling it to even happen by creating the demand are the guys in the government offices.
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No. 12070
>>12068
Economy about which I talking about is not something that far byound. This is already part of reality in which we are going in. Policits of majority of 1st world countries thought last centuries was basicly in increasinc socialstic elements into their economy and socity. Current people right, quality of life, goverment payments is involving heavy social elements which with every decade shftig more and more from pure capitalism to actual proper mixed system and then to socialistic systems.

I don't know what you talking about if somebody refuse. So many people want to give back child abuse as heavly workers? Remove worker rights? Maybe eleminate all taxes and go back to absolute no any kind of social servises - police only for rich, healthcare only for rich? I don't think so.

Dependency on 3rd world countries is not a magic miracle. 1st world already get it's production, resourses and materials from minor countries, and I think this "capital" can't be described as "made from nothing at the press of a button" even thought some other people in this thread belive in so. I not saying about "happy utopia to whole world" - I trying to describe current trends and evolution of economics in 1st world countries.
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No. 12073
https://ernstchan.xyz/int/thread/12072

anyway this thread is systemkontra, I created new one. We can just end current disscutions here and shift in new thread with new ones.
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No. 12074
>>12070
>Economy about which I talking about is not something that far byound
Tell me, where do you see the ability to make enough of everything for billions of people and give it all away for nothing? You move the goalposts from how you say that the 1st world can only do it because they exploit everybody else, but somehow it's just around the corner that everybody can do it without exploiting anybody? Make up your mind.

>Maybe eleminate all taxes and go back to absolute no any kind of social servises
Unironically sounds great. You don't touch my stuff and I don't touch yours. If you don't understand why someone might desire liberty more than comfort then there is no point trying to explain freedom to you because the concept will just be alien. But let's have you imagine that you roll into a town and start redistributing the goods so everybody gets their 'free stuff'. What if the residents tell you to leave and not come back? What happens to the enemies of socialism in this supposed 'transitional period'? The fact you keep dancing around it makes me think your answer is gulag.

>I not saying about "happy utopia to whole world" I trying to describe current trends and evolution of economics in 1st world countries.
You're talking about how nobody will have to do any work and everthing will be free and how no country will be 'exploited' and that this can't happen in a single state because that doesn't work. If that's not describing some kind of world utopia, I don't know what is.
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No. 12076
>>12074
>just around the corner
Yes, in matter of recent centuries in current tecnological advantage - maybe 200, maybe 400 years, I will not play a gypsy and try to predict certain dates.

>and give it all away for nothing?
To some degree. There was already experements recently in some european states. With current economy level... how much Finland tested thier "base income"? 800 euros or something?

>because the concept will just be alien
I sometimes want become survialist in post-apocalypse but I like to place such things just in video games where they belong nowdays.

>The fact you keep dancing around it makes me think your answer is gulag.
How much anarhists for example get on modern european elections? Which general trends in enconomy modern 1st world people is most popular in recent half centuary?
Of cource there always political opposition, current agruings between "right" and "left" but I will not say that general trends shifted that much from their original path. And I don't see many people in EUROPEAN UNION GULAGS.

>You're talking about how nobody will have to do any work and everthing will be free and how no country will be 'exploited' and that this can't happen in a single state because that doesn't work. If that's not describing some kind of world utopia, I don't know what is.
I don't said any of this, you described in this post "commuism utopia" which of cource if happen, will become possible after hundreds of years from now, but it make me wonder if you even reading mine posts.
I said directly that this transitial system started to happen in dedicated states basing on their ability to exploit other states. This states have opportunity to give all of it's citizens "amount of capital (not neccecery in actual money)" to make certain level of life quality avalible without any work. Further evolving of this system depend on increacing this amount of capital. - So this is basicly opposite of what you described in this sentence.