/int/ – No shittings during wörktime
„There is no place like home“

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No. 7873
6 kB, 281 × 180
I was detained last night at a store and a cop was called. Cop only gave me a court date two weeks from now.

Does anyone have any advice for me? I don't know if this is worth getting a lawyer for.

The store security and cop pitied me bc everything I took was for my new job. I guess that's why I'm not in jail right now.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
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No. 7874
So, you decided to steal everything for your new job?
What your new job, by the way?
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No. 7875
78 kB, 1129 × 1200
>>7873
>theft

You can kiss that "new job' goodbye.
If you are a first timer, you'll most likely get probation.
Plead guilty and ask court for mercy.
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No. 7876
>>7875
>You can kiss that "new job' goodbye.
Breddy much. Chances are that you're working with money and/or stock. With theft on your recent record, most employers just won't bother with the risk. I'd wager that there are felonies that keep you more employable than petty thievery does.
>>
No. 7877
>>7875
>>7876
>>7874
Wildland Firefighter

I took around $350 in groceries, socks, underwear, etc.

So, about that lawyer...
>>
No. 7878
>>7877
You got caught doing it though. A lawyer can't make that disappear. Besides, if you can't afford $350, then you can't afford a lawyer. You'll probably just want to talk deals with your PD.
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No. 7879
>The store security and cop pitied me bc everything I took was for my new job. I guess that's why I'm not in jail right now.

I suppose this will also be your strategy in court.
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No. 7880
In the US you have a right to an attorney, even if you cannot afford one.
>>
No. 7881
>>7880
Like I said, your PD. Your Public Defender. Just don't contest anything with them, since your opponent (the state) is the one who pays them at the end of the day.
>>
No. 7882
>>7880
At your first court appearance the judge will appoint a public defender if you can't afford one.
If you were seen stealing on a store camera, I don't think he will be able to get you off.
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No. 7891
>>7875
This is the worst possible advice. NEVER plead guilty. And yes get a lawyer OP but if you get a free public defender be aware that he isn't really fighting for you, he's just trying to clear a case off his desk. In some instances his relationship to the prosecutors, judge, and others may also be questionable. Do not allow a PD to just run everything for you. There's a reason why so many times people get pissed at their PD.

>The store security and cop pitied me bc everything I took was for my new job. I guess that's why I'm not in jail right now.
So you actually stole something? And probably admitted to it all already? Well, just try and plea it down. You can easily get an unsympathetic judge who tries and fucks you though.

>>7878
This

>>7877
Well, I wouldn't call personal groceries job related. I guess it really depends on all of what you took. Why the fuck did you even steal that shit anyway? $350 is quite a lot of shit. I'm curious what you were even doing. If it's just underwear and food then you're liable to get a lot of sympathy. Trying to be a firefighter will also get you many points. So will being white. Sorry but it's true, the legal system fucks you way harder if you're not white.

>>7882
He probably already confessed to it and gave some kind of statement. That will also be used to royally fuck him in court. There is no getting off. There is only him trying to get a slap on the wrist instead. If he has no priors then he's in good shape. Usually afaik petty larceny under $500 won't get you sent to jail.
>>
No. 7896
>>7891
Hey I really appreciate your reply. I've been lost on how to handle this.

Yeah well... When the store security has his hands on your cart outside of the store, and is pressing to call the cops if you don't just come back and have a talk with him... Well, you can imagine what sounded nicer. My town is v small

After taking me upstairs he made it clear he will find out what has, and hadn't been purchased after scanning.

So, yeah I fessed up. He would find out either way and he probably wouldn't appreciate a liar.

Once the it went past 200, it was store policy to call the cops.

We waited a long time bc it's labor day weekend... Over 30min. Once the cop arrived, I had the store security and witness in the room both feeling bad for me, assuring me I probably wouldn't be arrested.

Yeah the cop read my Miranda's, i said I understood and yeah I did what the store had accused me of. I mean... In that situation, why lie? Everything is against you.

I also said I lost my food stamps card, which explains the groceries.

I had just returned from my first fire run and I discovered that I was missing a lot of shit to make our 16 hour work days more bearable. Yeah it was mainly snacks and comfort clothing. I had just gotten my second fire call an hour before deciding to take all of that crap. I've been sleeping in my car for the last couple months. Yeah I'm white.. hoping for an understanding judge.

I was arrested for a DUI of .06 last winter, but then the charge was dropped the next morning. I hope to that's not used against me.

Right now I'm just hoping my record won't be tainted. Hoping hard
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No. 7901
229 kB, 405 × 615
Law-man here. Bonglaw though so I'll have to be basic.

>Does anyone have any advice for me?

1. Stop committing crime.

2. You should be able to find a free legal advice service within your state jurisdiction by google searching "free legal advice charity [state]". The charity part is important as you will want a non-profit rather than some shady firm looking to pull your pants down. If you are in any doubt over an organisations legitimacy then post a link here.

It is STRONGLY recommended that you contact one before you do anything else. I cannot stress this enough. I am not in any position to advise you on American law beyond the fundamentals nor are out-of-state Americans.

3. >I don't know if this is worth getting a lawyer for.

See what legal advice tell you but, no. We're on mitigation here and it is relatively simple as you’re begging for mercy.

- You've already confessed early to act and intent and at this stage that is good. Ensure that you clearly admit that what you did was wrong while wearing a shirt and tie having arrived early to court and in formal English. Show remorse, tell them you’re really sorry and didn't know what to do or who to turn to about getting the items for work so you panicked (you panicked, made a wrong choice and it escalated in your panic. It is inexcusable to steal.)

- Are there any other factors to your actions? We already have that you bought the items out of desperate need for the new job and that is good. Very good. Obviously you were planning to go in and pay for them at a later date but did anything else spur this on like rushing between calls...

4. Look, your desperate and by the sounds of things you need this job so let’s do a long-shot. Write out a (that’s ONE. 1.) letter of apology both to the store manager and the police. DO NOT PHYSICALLY APPROACH EITHER LOCATION. Show remorse, explain your situation and beg them to not have this go to court, offer restitution and promise to never, ever go near the shop again or even think about shoplifting.

Before you post this letter speak to legal advice but to emphasize:
-You’re sending one letter and not physically approaching as you’re not harassing or threatening anyone. Be very careful on this. Normally this is done through an intermediary i.e. lawyer but your even mother sending a letter with yours enclosed and her asking if they will read it will do.

>>7877
>$350

What the fuck were you robbing, champagne? Obviously you didn't realise the price-tag on some of this stuff did you, Mr Big-Spender.

>>7891
>This is the worst possible advice. NEVER plead guilty.

This is solid advice. Too late now of course but "I was going to pay for it" or "I forgot I had it" is bulletproof on shoplifting and is the first thing you learn in Criminal Law.
>>
No. 7903
>>7896
See this is your problem most people don't know what their rights are or how to behave which is the only reason they get caught and slammed because other wiseasses pull a fast one on you.

> and is pressing to call the cops if you don't just come back and have a talk with him.
He has no authority to detain you. He wants to hold you there til the cops come.

>So, yeah I fessed up. He would find out either way and he probably wouldn't appreciate a liar.
Deny deny deny. He's not a district attorney. You should have lied to him. Your statement, however, WILL be used against you in court.

>Once the it went past 200, it was store policy to call the cops.
Like I said it didn't matter if you stole a candy bar. He was going to call the cops and hold you there of your own free will until the cops came anyway.

>Yeah the cop read my Miranda's, i said I understood and yeah I did what the store had accused me of. I mean... In that situation, why lie? Everything is against you.
Because it will be used against you. You should have immediately clammed up and demanded a lawyer. Unless you're high or drunk there's really no reason to get manipulated by them like this. You don't even argue with the cop. You don't even bother trying to defend yourself at that point. You immediately request a lawyer, in fact police are automatically more likely to presume you're innocent if you immediately request a lawyer. This is partly because

https://youtu.be/EUNJBwO2BoA?t=362
guilty people want to know what they're being charged with and what the cops know, and innocent people immediately want to defend themselves. They're also pretty anxiety free when it comes to dealing with courts and cops because they know that they're innocent so they don't care as much what they "look like" they just go through procedure.

>I had just returned from my first fire run and I discovered that I was missing a lot of shit to make our 16 hour work days more bearable. Yeah it was mainly snacks and comfort clothing. I had just gotten my second fire call an hour before deciding to take all of that crap. I've been sleeping in my car for the last couple months. Yeah I'm white.. hoping for an understanding judge.
Excellent prognosis. Minus the white part tell all this shit to your lawyer. The judge is probably just going to ream you out about how there's no excuse for breaking the law and you should know better and yadda yadda but the heroic underpaid firefighter living in his car and starving in between calls, while not negating the charges themselves, is pretty much guaranteed to ameliorate the actual consequences.

>I was arrested for a DUI of .06 last winter, but then the charge was dropped the next morning. I hope to that's not used against me.
I thought DUIs were .08? Or I'm confusing DWI and DUI?

>Right now I'm just hoping my record won't be tainted. Hoping hard
Well if they decided not to press charges then you should be pretty good, although one wonders about the sleeping in a car thing in that context. Of course what a lot of people may not realize is if you're just sleeping in your car with keys out of the ignition you can still catch a DUI if the keys are anywhere on you or in the car.

Tbh I think you should be pretty much fine. Even if you were just blatantly being a crackhead it's highly unlikely you would face any jailtime for the shoplifting itself of such a small amount of money. With no priors and having not only a (underpaying apparently) job but a job in public service at that and you should be pretty much fine. What you'll probably end up getting is at most like 6-12 months probation. Try to get something like an AOCD.
>>
No. 7904
>>7901
true, until you pass through cashies line, the excuse of "I forgot" it is a lawful excuse, atleast in here. There is no way you are fined for putting things to your bag and caught with it.
>>
No. 7905
>>7901
Yeah listen to this guy. Also don't even bother saying anything that sounds like you're excusing your own actions. Anyone involved in law hates that shit, and the judge will hate you too. Everything from this point on should be about you being humble and remorseful OP. Don't try blaming anybody else. I'm not even sure "I panicked" is the right wording per se, but pretty much something along those lines of your judgment maybe being impaired from overworking or whatever.

Actually just listen to the bong he's right about pretty much everything. Show everybody the proper respect and speak clearly and formally.
>>
No. 7906
>>7904
Won't work on hundreds of dollars worth of stuff, but yeah. I've accidentally shoplifted a cup of coffee at least once for exactly those reasons.
>>
No. 7907
38 kB, 827 × 573
>>7906
>>7906
>accidently
come on, you are amongst friends.
>>
No. 7908
>>7901
I've been reading anything I can ever since. From what I understand it's out of the store's hands, and now completely up to the police? Which confused me. I should look into that more. Thanks man

>>7903
I mean... The Loss Prevention's guy had already scanned everything and discovered 90% of everything was stolen. All evidence was against me, so why admit anything else?

Should I have just given that stupid beef jerky up and yanked my cart out of his grip? And denied denied, denied? Is that seriously the best path I could have taken? There were other employees around, he had one of them ready to call the cops.

Thsts what I thought too.
Apparently you can't drink ANY alcohol and drive a car... 08 is past the legal limit here though. So, that night I was just dealt an unlucky hand with that cop...

>>7904
I'm banging my head against a wall right now.

Are you sure about this detaining stuff? Maybe it varies state to state, or store to store? It was Fred Meyer

At first I said he couldn't detain me, and I said this a couple of times. But he refuted me and said yeah he could, and I wasn't leaving with the cart.

The ONLY thing he saw me take was a bag of beef jerky... It was the last thing I took. When he brought this up outside, I said "ohyah I forgot. Take it" but he said no, not an option... That bag of beef jerky did me in
>>
No. 7909
>>7907
>>7908
>Maybe it varies state to state, or store to store?
I highly doubt it varies. Look the law cant read your mind, what you are about to do is irrelevant. Unless you pass the cashier line and one worker says halt you didn't steal anything yet.

I'd wrote my experiences but I'm too paranoid about it and considering I'm living in Turkey I can't be too careful.
>>
No. 7912
Do I understand this correctly.
You have money, enough to eat.
But decide you deserve some new underwear and 300 dollars of candy and snacks for your new job.
A credit card was not an option?
And 10usd of candy wasn't enough.
Seems this was not your adventure in crime.
>>
No. 7913
>>7912
>first adventure in crime.
>>
No. 7914
>>7912
I said I lost my food card, hence the groceries

I returned from my first call late Friday and got my next fire call midway through Sunday for early Monday. All this shit went down late Sunday

It was my first time, which is why I was so stupid about it. I'd heard rumors it would be no problem at this store
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No. 7915
>>7914
Not to mention this was in the middle of labor day weekend
>>
No. 7916
>>7907
No I mean doing shit like going into a store scatterbrained, getting a cup of coffee, and deciding I didn't want to get a snack and then walking out with the coffee not even realizing I hadn't paid for it. I specifically remember doing this once at the school store on campus but odds are I probably did it more than once and didn't even notice.

>>7908
More often than not it will be you vs the State. So yes it doesn't even matter if the actual person wronged or allegedly wronged doesn't want to press charges because the government does.
>But he refuted me and said yeah he could, and I wasn't leaving with the cart.
Then he was lying. You shouldn't believe everything someone says. Not even a cop. Cops can legally lie to you and mislead you. This is why it's so important to know your rights. He legally couldn't detain you.
>The ONLY thing he saw me take was a bag of beef jerky
I mean, I don't know. It's probably not like you're actually making it any better for yourself by doing something you know is wrong and then giving yourself up immediately. That's just stupid. Although LP or AP or whatever it's called guys had probably actually been watching you the whole time. This is also probably why he noted the jerky. So, yeah, you probably should've just thrown the jerky at the guy and said I don't have time for this and left. It all depends on whether the cops could ID you with electronic payment, fingerprints and video etc.
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No. 7917
>>7913
This should give some pretty funny context to OP too
http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/With-theft-on-the-rise-Fred-Meyers-grocery-store-looks-to-police-for-help-462876213.html

>Jeffery Temple, the director of corporate affairs with Fred Meyer, said protocol for stopping shoplifters "is an internal policy which can't be shared publicly, as we don't want people taking advantage of the policy."
This is not quite code for "we are a soft target that legally can't do fuckall". I know someone in loss prevention. They can't do much if you run off. Although
>Officers would wait for loss prevention to contact suspected shoplifters, and then if those shoplifters ran, police would intervene and track down the suspected thieves.
>One of those arrests was what customers had reported witnessing on social media, a woman pushing a cart containing $551.85 worth of goods out of the store. When she failed to stop during the blitz, she was apprehended by police.
So maybe OP was going to be boned anyway.

Is this a thing? I mean do people just go into stores with shopping carts, load up, and walk off? That's actually pretty ballsy. Or stupid, your pick.
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No. 7918
>>7917
I have heard of it happening and about 2 years ago you may have gotten away with it.
500usd of food seems very bulky to make a quick get away.
I feel sorry for OP, but the excuses just don't fly.
I mean if your poor there are charities to help you, could even get an advance from work to cover costs, a bag of rice, potatoes or pasta does not cost much, same for bread and milk.
But Jesus, 350 dollars, that isn't robbing a piece of bread because you are hungry.
I bet it was all candy and soda, with the token packet of beef jerky on top.
Then the guy had to scan all the soda to see if he paid for it, next to the steak and lobster.
Cautionary tale to all budding theives lurking.
If he just stuck to a few pieces of clothes they would have let him go, hell even mentioned if value was under 200 dollars they do not prosecute.
>>
No. 7919
>>7918
> if value was under 200 dollars they do not prosecute.
I sincerely doubt that.
>I mean if your poor there are charities to help you, could even get an advance from work to cover costs, a bag of rice, potatoes or pasta does not cost much, same for bread and milk.
He's already on food stamps. Plus being poor in America sucks. If you don't have family there is basically no safety net here, and as OP discovered about falling asleep in your car after a couple of drinks, very easy to get arrested (the reason for him being arrested this time notwithstanding).
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No. 7922
>>7919
Why do Americans always act like the rest of the world is milk and honey for the poor where we all eat with silver cutlery and get wads of cash handed to us every five minutes? When I was really broke and hand to mouth, I ate flour and water and lived in a run down apartment with a heroin addict. I didn't qualify for benefits at the time, and when I got a second job to help with the bills, I was paying around %20 income tax on it despite still being below the poverty line.
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No. 7923
Here, homeless just freeze to death in winter :-DDDDD
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No. 7928
>>7923
The steppe is harsh, but fair.
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No. 7930
uhhh how'd they detain you? if you didn't actually leave the store with it they can't say you were stealing technically, I think. Get a public defender ASAP. They're free, make sure you have enough for court costs and shit though.
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No. 7934
125 kB, 1024 × 768
>steal shit
>spend times more money for court expenses and fines
ayyy
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No. 7936
>>7918
It was boxes of granola bars, oatmeal, milk, undies, socks, a notebook, some shower stuff, yogurts, calendar.. yeah. I'm surprised it was that much too.
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No. 7948
>>7919
I have heard that SOME stores don't bother prosecuting unless someone attempts to steal something big, or someone is repeatedly stealing but they'll have some pretty sophisticated loss prevention and security equipment. Like cameras, snapping photos etc. My one friend's brother said Target would do that when he worked there that they'd basically start a file on someone when they stole, and if it went beyond a certain amount to the point where they could hit em' with a felony they'd call the police next time they were in and get them charged with everything.

Now I always took that with a grain of salt because the guy's a bullshitter. But most corporate chain type stores have a non-confrontational theft policy unless they have an actual security presence because detaining someone could result in a lawsuit, and an employee or other customer getting hurt could result in a lawsuit, not to mention causing a scene and making customers think they're in a ba part of town or some shit.

>>7936
How was all that stuff for your new job though? You're supposed to go commando to job interviews. It inspires confidence and a sense of danger in yourself.
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No. 7962
>>7905
>I'm not even sure "I panicked" is the right wording per se, but pretty much something along those lines of your judgment maybe being impaired from overworking or whatever.

Note on impaired judgement:
Do not say you were drunk or anything that is the result of you taking something – not even medication. Voluntary intoxication invalidates your state as taking something involves you acknowledging potential risk. Nothing that can specifically be YOUR fault. The classic case here involves a woman with depression absent-mindedly committing shoplifting as her mental awareness was reduced, she got off as their was no intent.

I use panic as a primer as that route is impossible to argue against and not the result of any conscious decision of the defendant. It's not magic but it mitigates.

>>7908
>I've been reading anything I can ever since. From what I understand it's out of the store's hands, and now completely up to the police? Which confused me. I should look into that more. Thanks man

It's a criminal law matter so it's out of the stores hands but police and prosecution hold discretion and they have large caseloads. This case holds little public interest, if you’re remorseful and the store accepts an apology then it’s liable to disappear after a chat.

That would be ideal as you can escape this going onto a criminal record meaning you can keep your job.

>>7909
This is correct and universal. For those Legally Blonde fans out there, this is what all the legal dialogue in that movie concerned.

Crime has two fundamental elements:
Mens rea is the guilty mind
+
Actus reas is the guilty act

If one of those wasn't present then (with limited exception for negligence) there is no crime. In Criminal Law this makes prosecution difficult as the burden of proof is 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

Won't even go to court in a case of shoplifting (unless you’re clearly taking the piss) if you never admit to anything. The gorilla they have on security thumps his chest because he wants to cow you into submission but he's actually powerless. And now you can guess as to why a criminal record poses problems for a legal career.